ID-FRONTIERS for January 16-22, 2000

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Re: Gilham waterfowl hybrid book   Harry J. Lehto   Mon, 17 Jan 2000   12:44am   Re: Gilham waterfowl hybrid book   Harry J. Lehto   Mon, 17 Jan 2000   3:12am   Mallard x Gadwall hybrids   Jeff Davis    Mon, 17 Jan 2000   11:36am   Anna's hummingbird in Kansas   Dave Rintoul    Mon, 17 Jan 2000   2:17pm   Re: Gilham waterfowl hybrid book   Don Roberson and/or    Mon, 17 Jan 2000   9:44pm   Re: A Very Odd Icterid, Florida   Alvaro Jaramillo    Mon, 17 Jan 2000   11:02pm   [Fwd: Pacific-slope Flycatcher vocalizations on web]   Harry LeGrand    Tue, 18 Jan 2000   9:33am   hybrid wigeon photos   ian paulsen    Tue, 18 Jan 2000   12:59pm   QRY: 1yr. kumlieni Iceland vs. 1yr nominate   James H. Barton   Tue, 18 Jan 2000   3:35pm   variation in first-winter gull scapular patterns   Nick Lethaby    Tue, 18 Jan 2000   4:39pm   Attn. Listowner - Technical post - repeated error message   James H. Barton   Tue, 18 Jan 2000   6:02pm   Variation in first winter gull scapulars   Adriaens, Peter   Wed, 19 Jan 2000   8:17am   Fwd: "atlantis" gull pics   Nick Lethaby    Wed, 19 Jan 2000   10:35am   "atlantis" YLG   Robert Barber    Wed, 19 Jan 2000   10:49am   Fwd: Variation in first winter gull scapulars   Nick Lethaby    Wed, 19 Jan 2000   10:56am   Re: "atlantis" YLG   John Pogacnik    Wed, 19 Jan 2000   11:47am   Origins of SBGU specimens at USNM   Nick Lethaby    Wed, 19 Jan 2000   4:28pm   Immature female Hooded/Bullock's Orioles   Nick Block    Thu, 20 Jan 2000   2:52pm   Florida's Odd Icterid, More Pics...   Noel Wamer    Fri, 21 Jan 2000   6:30am   Tropicbird i.d.   Don Roberson and/or    Sat, 22 Jan 2000   4:16pm

To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'. This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.

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Subject: Re: Gilham waterfowl hybrid book
From: "Harry J. Lehto" <hlehto(AT)DENEB.ASTRO.UTU.FI>
Date: 17 Jan 2000 12:44am

> Today I learned that there are two supplements to the Gilham book
> [HYBRID DUCKS]. Does anybody know whether the supplements have
> photographs, and the general layout of the supplements (ie. photos of
> hybrids from the first book, or new hybrid combinations with or without
> photos)?

The two supplements are without photographs. The supplements are in A4
format (about 8 by 11''), and contain detailed descriptions of new hybrids
or updates to the present descriptions.

My recollection is that Gillham's address has changed since the
publication of the "hybrid ducks", I think the address already
posted address is the old one. I'll try to check this out for tomorrow
The Gillham's have no email or other access
to the internet, so they are eg. unable to join this discussion.

I have so far asked a few BIRDWG01 authors explicit permission to forward
a copy of their correspondance to this group + their possible photographs
in the web (I have a reasonable color printer) + their postal address to
the Gillham's in one batch.
So if you want to join the crowd, please give me (hlehto(AT)astro.utu.fi)
your permission to forward your email + your web accessible photos to the
Gillhams by snail mail. I'll be happy to do that. I'd also need your snail
mail address so that the Gillhams could then get in touch with you about
further details and possible photographs. I'll send the batch once this
discussion has died out.

Regards
Harry J Lehto


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Subject: Re: Gilham waterfowl hybrid book
From: "Harry J. Lehto" <hlehto(AT)DENEB.ASTRO.UTU.FI>
Date: 17 Jan 2000 3:12am

Here's the last Gillham's address (Dec 1999),

Eric & Barry Gillham
90 Church Road
West Row
Bury St
Edmunds
Suffolk. IP28 8PF
United Kingdom

Regards
Harry J Lehto
hlehto(AT)astro.utu.fi


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Subject: Mallard x Gadwall hybrids
From: Jeff Davis <jndavis(AT)CATS.UCSC.EDU>
Date: 17 Jan 2000 11:36am

I just came across this paper:

Merrifield, K. 1998. Two presumed Mallard X Gadwall hybrids (Anas
platyrhynchos x A.  strepera) in Lincoln County, Oregon. Northwest
Naturalist 79:54-58.

The author describes one hybrid resembling a breeding male Gadwall and the
other resembling a late eclipse male Mallard.

Cheers,

Jeff Davis
Santa Cruz, CA


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Subject: Anna's hummingbird in Kansas
From: Dave Rintoul <drintoul(AT)KSU.EDU>
Date: 17 Jan 2000 2:17pm

Greetings

A hummingbird, currently residing in Salina KS (approximately the
center of the state) has been identified as a female Anna's Hummingbird
(Calypte anna). Photos and other information are on the KOS website at

http://www.ksbirds.org/salina_hummer.html

If accepted by the Kansas Bird Records Committee, this would be the
5th state record.

Cheers

Dave

--
Dave Rintoul, Ph.D.                              mailto:drintoul(AT)ksu.edu
Biology Division - KSU                              ICBM: 39.18N, 96.34W
Manhattan KS 66506-4901                                VOX: 785-532-6663
http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~drintoul/                 FAX: 785-532-6653


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Subject: Re: Gilham waterfowl hybrid book
From: Don Roberson and/or Rita Carratello <creagrus(AT)MONTEREYBAY.COM>
Date: 17 Jan 2000 9:44pm

For those interested in waterfowl hybrids, Eric Gillham wrote another book in
1986 entitled "Tufted Ducks in a Royal Park," and privately published it in a
wonderful hardbound version. If you contact the Gillhams, you may wish to
enquire about it. Not only does it illustrate with texts and abundant photos
the life cycle and variations in plumages of Tufted Duck, but there are color
photos of two Aythya hybrids involving Tufted Duck, and an appendix with
details of several others, including a probably Mallard X Tufed Duck cross. I
highly recommend this fine book which I found very useful in reviewing TUDU
claims when I served on the C.B.R.C. Many other photos of Aythya hybrids
appear in Gillham, E., J.M. Harrison, and J.G. Harrison, 1960, "A study of
certain Aythya hybrids," Wildfowl 17: 49-65.

Don Roberson
Pacific Grove CA


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Subject: Re: A Very Odd Icterid, Florida
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <alvaro(AT)SIRIUS.COM>
Date: 17 Jan 2000 11:02pm

At 08:54 AM 1/15/00 -0500, Noel Wamer wrote:
>A very odd-looking icterid was found and photographed by Ken Tracey in
>Pasco County, Florida on January 14, 2000.  The bird was in a mixed flock
>of Red-winged Blackbirds and Common Grackles.  It's size and shape is
>similar to a Red-winged.  The picture shows a black head, black throat and
>upper breast, off-white or pale buff lower breast and belly, and brownish
>(almost chestnut?) wings.  It has a pale iris, and a dark bill with a basal
>light area reminiscent of some orioles.  The legs are not visible in the
>picture, but the feet are light-colored.
>
>The picture of this bird can be viewed at:
>http://web2.fcol.com/~nwamer/kentraceyicterid.htm
>

Birders:

  This is indeed a weird bird. My guess is that it is a leucistic (=partial
albino) blackbird, probably a Red-winged but it could be another species.
The photos are not clear enough to obtain the details needed to figure out
the possibilities. I have seen photos and skins of some very odd leucistic
Red-wings, often patterns not present in typical Red-wings appear. For
example, it is relatively normal for leucistic male Red-wings to show dark
streaks on a pale background. It is also normal for them to show reddish,
orange, or yellow colours where their plumage is usually black (head area,
sometimes the tail etc.). Oriole like tail patterns are sometimes present
in these odd males. One male I have photographs of has a bold white lower
wing bar, where that came from is anyone's guess. So in general, I think
this is a leucistic blackbird rather than a hybrid. If any closer photos
come into existence, do post them!

This phenomenon of leucism allowing underlying, hidden, patterns to appear
is similar to what occurs in hybrid ducks where novel patterns not present
in the parent species.

Al

Alvaro Jaramillo
Senior Biologist
San Francisco Bay Bird Observatory
P.O. Box 247
Alviso, CA 95002
(408)-946-6548

http://www.sfbbo.org/
Home of the California Fall Challenge!!

alvaro(AT)sirius.com

Birds of Chile and
New World Blackbirds at : http://www.sirius.com/~alvaro


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Subject: [Fwd: Pacific-slope Flycatcher vocalizations on
         web]
From: Harry LeGrand <Harry.LeGrand(AT)NCMAIL.NET>
Date: 18 Jan 2000 9:33am

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

We in NC found a "Western" flycatcher at Jordan Lake on January 15.
Fortunately, someone got a tape of its call. It responded vigorously to
the taped call of the Pacific-Slope, calling on its own. Supposedly, it
didn't respond to the taped calls of Cordilleran.  I saw the bird but
didn't hear it call; I could only ID it to "Western" before I left.
Those who did hear it identified it as Pacific-Slope by the bird's call
sounding like that on the tape.

I leave it for folks interested to hear. If you have sound capabilities,
below is the website address for the call. I'd appreciate input, as I am
the discoverer of the bird and will write up details for the NC Bird
Records Committee (which I am on).

This is the first report of "Western" Flycatcher for NC. We want to "get
it right"! If you have considerable familiarity with the calls of
Pacific-Slope and/or Cordilleran, I'd appreciate feedback after hearing
the call on the web.

Harry LeGrand
Raleigh, NC

--
Harry E. LeGrand, Jr.
N.C. Natural Heritage Program
Division of Parks and Recreation
1615 MSC
Raleigh, NC 27699-1615

Office: (919) 715-8687
Home: (919) 832-3202
FAX: (919) 715-3085
e-mail: harry.legrand(AT)ncmail.net
http://ils.unc.edu/parkproject/nhp/index.html

----INCLUDING message/rfc822 MIME SECTION----
----    DELETING EXCESS HEADER LINES     ----

From: "Will Cook" <cwcook(AT)duke.edu>
To: carolinabirds(AT)duke.edu
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:24:11 -0400
Subject: Pacific-slope Flycatcher vocalizations on web
Sender: carolinabirds-owner(AT)acpub.duke.edu

Yesterday Derb Carter got some pretty good recordings of the flycatcher's
vocalizations.  I transferred them to .wav format and put them on the web
at:

http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/psfl.html

--
Charles W. "Will" Cook                w 919-660-7423
cwcook(AT)acpub.duke.edu                 h 919-967-5446
Duke University Botany Dept., Durham, North Carolina
http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook


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Subject: hybrid wigeon photos
From: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)LINKNET.KITSAP.LIB.WA.US>
Date: 18 Jan 2000 12:59pm

HI ID Frontiers:
  I have posted 2 photos at:www.scn.org/earth/tweeters/images of a
Eurasian x American Wigeon hybrid here on Bainbridge Island, WA.
Sincerely

Ian "Birdbooker" Paulsen
Bainbridge Is., WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
"Rallidae all the way"


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Subject: QRY: 1yr. kumlieni Iceland vs. 1yr nominate
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 18 Jan 2000 3:35pm

    Ian and friends--Is there any reliable way to separate 1st  year
Kumlien's Gull ..L.g.kumlieni.. from 1st year nominate Iceland .. L.g.
glaucoides.." ?   Some Brits are trying to do a 1yr Kumlien's as I
write.  Hopeless assignment?

    While I'm at it, I might as well ask whether it's safe to identify a
full adult Iceland in North America in winter showing absolutely
positively no gray markings no how in the primaries as the nominate
bird?  I see such a bird every five years or so.   Self-confident local
authorities have informed me that that the primaries were marked but I
just didn't see it.

    Thanks for your help.

    Jim Barton
    redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
    Cambridge, MA


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Subject: variation in first-winter gull scapular patterns
From: Nick Lethaby <nickl(AT)COWARE.COM>
Date: 18 Jan 2000 4:39pm

All:

I was wondering if any of the gull freaks can shed light on this issue. I
have the opportunity to study Thayer's Gulls at very close range near my
home and have been looking closely at scapulars on many birds (since this
is also helpful in aging juveniles and first-winters). As far as I can
tell, I have seen 1W Thayer's can show two different scapular patterns. One
pattern is simply a fine dark streak running along shaft on an otherwise
pale feather. The other pattern has a dark anchor (similar but not as
dark/constrasting as that of a 1W Am. Herring Gull) on a medium-toned
background.

Does anyone know if it is possible for 1W gulls of the same species to show
different scapular patterns?

One explanation is that some of these birds are hybrids and this accounts
for the difference. I am pretty much certain that GWGU x HEGU hybrids are
regular at the same place (I have also Glaucous x Herring for sure here).
However, I have seen both patterns on birds with Thayer's like structure.

Another possibility is that I am misidentifying some juv scapulars as 1W,
although that would lead to a similar discussion about variability in juv
scapular markings.

Thanks for any insights.

Nick

Nick Lethaby
Technical Marketing Manager
CoWare, Inc.
Tel: 408 845 7646
E-mail: nickl(AT)coware.com


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Subject: Attn. Listowner - Technical post - repeated error
          message
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 18 Jan 2000 6:02pm

    Listowner--Please inform me where to send you notice of a repeated
"User unknown".  Presumably, other subscribers have been having the same
problem when posting.  You may wish to inform the list what to do with
such messages.

    Thank you.

    Jim Barton
    redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
    Cambridge, MA


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Subject: Variation in first winter gull scapulars
From: "Adriaens, Peter" <padriaens(AT)C2000.BE>
Date: 19 Jan 2000 8:17am

Nick,

large gulls are just extremely variable, and in my opinion often do not show
one single type of scapulars, but rather a range of more or less similar
scapular feathers. Typically, juvenile large gulls show mostly dark
scapulars (large dark centra, often notched, with a thin pale edge), and
first winters more of an anchor pattern, or 'double' anchor pattern. I think
there is often a whole range of anchor patterns, varying from dark, double
anchors or still largely dark centra, to pale, i.e. only a thin dark shaft
streak on some or most of the feathers. Also take into consideration the
effects of wear and bleaching.

I have not seen Thayers Gull, but I imagine that they can be quite pale
(with only a dark shaft streak on scapulars) to moderately dark (with a dark
anchor pattern).

Greetings,
Peter Adriaens


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Subject: Fwd: "atlantis" gull pics
From: Nick Lethaby <nickl(AT)COWARE.COM>
Date: 19 Jan 2000 10:35am

I was asked to forward this from Edward Massiah

>X-Originating-IP: [196.3.199.246]
>From: "Eddie Massiah" <ebmassiah(AT)hotmail.com>
>To: nickl(AT)coware.com
>Subject: "atlantis" gull pics
>Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:22:54 PST
>
>
>Dear Nick,
>
>A few months ago on ID-Frontiers someone posted details of an URL which had
>on atlantis race HEGU/YLG photos taken in Madeira or Azores.
>
>I can not find this site and all my searches have been fruitless.
>
>On Saturday I found 4 imm. Herring Gulls which looked exactly like the
>pictures of the atlantis race (whether you call it YLG or not).
>We think they are this race.
>
>Can you put out a request for the site details please on ID-frontiers??
>
>Cheers,
>
>Eddie Massiah
>Barbados
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>

Nick Lethaby
Technical Marketing Manager
CoWare, Inc.
Tel: 408 845 7646
E-mail: nickl(AT)coware.com


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Subject: "atlantis" YLG
From: Robert Barber <bob(AT)VERTIGO.HSRL.RUTGERS.EDU>
Date: 19 Jan 2000 10:49am

I am not sure if this is the page that Eddie Massiah was refering to,
but there is a good collection of "atlantis"YLG  on this site.

http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/


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Subject: Fwd: Variation in first winter gull
         scapulars
From: Nick Lethaby <nickl(AT)COWARE.COM>
Date: 19 Jan 2000 10:56am

I thought I would send a couple of the replies I received on this matter. I
would like to thank others who replied too. Looks like multiple scapular
patterns are pretty normal.

>
>From: "Adriaens, Peter" <padriaens(AT)C2000.BE>
>Subject:      [BIRDWG01] Variation in first winter gull scapulars
>
>Nick,
>
>large gulls are just extremely variable, and in my opinion often do not show
>one single type of scapulars, but rather a range of more or less similar
>scapular feathers. Typically, juvenile large gulls show mostly dark
>scapulars (large dark centra, often notched, with a thin pale edge), and
>first winters more of an anchor pattern, or 'double' anchor pattern. I think
>there is often a whole range of anchor patterns, varying from dark, double
>anchors or still largely dark centra, to pale, i.e. only a thin dark shaft
>streak on some or most of the feathers. Also take into consideration the
>effects of wear and bleaching.
>
>I have not seen Thayers Gull, but I imagine that they can be quite pale
>(with only a dark shaft streak on scapulars) to moderately dark (with a dark
>anchor pattern).
>
>Greetings,
>Peter Adriaens
>

Hi Nick,
In my experience, multiple first basic scapular patterns in a single
species are very common. An excellent local example is provided by
California Gull: in a sample of ten first basic birds, it is quite easy
to find half-a-dozen or more distinct scap patterns.
Even on the same individual it is quite normal to find two or more
scapular patterns. Based on fieldwork and museum studies, this appears
to be a result of when the feathers are moulted. There can often be a
distinct change in scapular pattern by an individual in mid-winter. For
example, the latest-moulted scapulars on first basic individuals of
several species are often the palest and most uniform (most 'adult
like'). These differing patterns between and within individuals may in
part reflect the relative energetic costs of pigment production.
Incidentally, I believe that there are some consistent, if subtle,
differences in juvenile scapular patterns between thayeri and
'kumlieni' (note that most individuals of both taxa are still in full
juvenile plumage even in Jan). It is possible that some of the
differences we seen in thayeri scap patterns may be due to the influence
of 'kumlieni' genes.
Cheers, Jon.
-----------------------------------------
Jon R. King
2707 D Street, Sacramento, CA 95816, USA
Tel/fax: (916) 448 5945
E-mail: king(AT)prbo.org

Nick Lethaby
Technical Marketing Manager
CoWare, Inc.
Tel: 408 845 7646
E-mail: nickl(AT)coware.com


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Subject: Re: "atlantis" YLG
From: John Pogacnik <jpogacnik(AT)NCWEB.COM>
Date: 19 Jan 2000 11:47am

Here are some additional "atlantis" photos.

http://www.22briar.freeserve.co.uk/atlantis.htm

John Pogacnik
4765 Lockwood Road
Perry, OH 44081
440/259-2751


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Subject: Origins of SBGU specimens at USNM
From: Nick Lethaby <nickl(AT)COWARE.COM>
Date: 19 Jan 2000 4:28pm

All:

Some time ago, there was some discussion about Slaty-backed Gull mantle
variation (in think in conjunction with the claimed SBGU in MD). I remember
some comments about the origin of the some of the specimens used in the
1994 Birding article by Gustafson and Peterjohn. I recall someone stating
that one of birds being from the Commander Islands and one was apparently
from Guam. I would like to clarify the origin of following specimens in the
USNM:

        366426
        494373
        201461
        201459

Has anyone got the information on these or is there some on-line way to
check the USNM archives.

Thanks, Nick

Nick Lethaby
Technical Marketing Manager
CoWare, Inc.
Tel: 408 845 7646
E-mail: nickl(AT)coware.com


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Subject: Immature female Hooded/Bullock's Orioles
From: Nick Block <sparrowhawk17(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 2:52pm

ID-Frontierspersons,

On a recent Teen BirdChat trip to South TX, we observed a couple of
immature female orioles at Salineno on different days (never seen
together).  I am still confident that the first bird was a Bullock's, but
I think we might have been a bit hasty in our ID of the second bird.  Our
first impression was immediately Bullock's b/c of the extensive grayish
belly, but I don't think we considered Hooded carefully enough.
Unfortunately, none of us had much (if any) experience with this plumage,
so we were not aware that immature female Hoodeds can also show quite a
bit of gray underneath in their first winter.  The 2nd bird was noticeably
brighter colored than the first (in my mind) and may have had a longer
bill.  The yellow was obviously centered on the face/breast and vent
regions, with a noticeably gray belly.  The yellow did not seem to extend
into the gray at all, staying centered in the 2 areas.  I do not recall
the exact shade/tint of the grayish coloring, unfortunately.  The more I
think about the 2nd bird and try to compare them in my head, the more I
feel that they may have been different species.  When the bird was
actually seen, I thought the yellow was just brighter on it and that was
why it was so apparently a different bird than the 1st.  But now I feel
like there as more to it that I just didn't consider.  So my question
concerns exactly how much gray on the underparts can immature Hoodeds show
in their first winter.  Can it reach the extent of a Bullock's?  Also, how
bright can an immature Bullock's vent region appear in it's first winter,
and how extensive can the yellow in that area be?  Thank you so much for
any info, and please forgive my blunder at the time of observation. :-)
Good birding!

=====
Nick Block, 19
Seabrook, TX
sparrowhawk17(AT)yahoo.com
AOL IM: Sizortail   ICQ: 16535676

"We do not inherit the Earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children."
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com


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Subject: Florida's Odd Icterid, More Pics...
From: Noel Wamer <nwamer(AT)FCOL.COM>
Date: 21 Jan 2000 6:30am

Yes, just a Red-winged Blackbird!  A very odd-looking one.  Perhaps the
spawn of Zellwood?

http://web2.fcol.com/~nwamer/kentraceyicterid2.htm

Later...

Noel Wamer
Jacksonville, FL, US   30.2820 -81.4972
"A strange bird may cause a slight unrest until it is named..."
                                                       (Walker Percy)


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Subject: Tropicbird i.d.
From: Don Roberson and/or Rita Carratello <creagrus(AT)MONTEREYBAY.COM>
Date: 22 Jan 2000 4:16pm

Having been lucky enough to photograph all the world's tropicbirds, I've put
together an i.d. page which may be interesting to both new sea-birders and the
more advanced crowd (juv. i.d. problems). It is written at about "Birding"
magazine level and is now on-line at
http://montereybay.com/creagrus/tropicbd-id.html
I would be pleased to hear from anyone who might have additional features of
tropicbird i.d. to be discussed. At least it is a topic that hasn't been much
mentioned on any of these chat groups....

Also a more general & introductory "tropicbird family" page is on-line at
http://montereybay.com/creagrus/tropicbirds.html

Cheers, Don Roberson
Pacific Grove CA