ID-FRONTIERS for February 6-12, 2000

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Birders Journal Jaeger.   Alvaro Jaramillo    Sun, 6 Feb 2000   2:13pm   Birder's Journal jaeger   Matt Heindel    Sun, 6 Feb 2000   4:50pm   Hybrid Ducks   paullarkin    Mon, 7 Feb 2000   12:38pm   when did L. marinus colonised North America???   Pierre Andre Crochet   Tue, 8 Feb 2000   11:52am   Minnesota GWGU??   Stephen J. Dinsmore   Tue, 8 Feb 2000   8:09pm   Minnesote GWGU, again.   steve dinsmore    Wed, 9 Feb 2000   7:30am   Mystery gull in Belgium   Adriaens, Peter   Thu, 10 Feb 2000   9:19am   URL change, web site Llobregat Delta Nature Reserves   Ricard Gutierrez    Thu, 10 Feb 2000   1:57pm   RFI - Cave Swallows subspecies revisited   Andrew Guthrie    Thu, 10 Feb 2000   3:17pm   Re: Mystery gull in Belgium   James H. Barton   Thu, 10 Feb 2000   6:33pm   Re: Cave Swallows subspecies revisited   Harry LeGrand    Fri, 11 Feb 2000   6:28am   Flank colour - Cave Swallow incursion into Ontario   Adamo, Alfred   Fri, 11 Feb 2000   10:02am   subspecific taxonomy of the Cave Swallow   Michael A. Patten   Fri, 11 Feb 2000   10:16am   Re: subspecific taxonomy of the Cave Swallow   Ian Mclaren    Fri, 11 Feb 2000   11:15am   Fw: Tufted Duck   paullarkin    Fri, 11 Feb 2000   11:57am   Michigan Tufted Duck   Allen T Chartier    Fri, 11 Feb 2000   12:24pm   Re: Unusual Northern Shrike??????   Bob & Carol Yutzy    Fri, 11 Feb 2000   2:02pm   CASW subspecies ident.   Glenda Slessor    Fri, 11 Feb 2000   3:47pm   curious Lanius excubitor   Evan Obercian    Fri, 11 Feb 2000   3:50pm   Carolina vs. BC Chickadee   James H. Barton   Fri, 11 Feb 2000   8:14pm   Allen's Humingbirds   Matt Heindel    Fri, 11 Feb 2000   10:00pm   Black-Capped/Carolina Chickadees   Dave DeReamus    Fri, 11 Feb 2000   11:38pm   Re: Aythya duck in Michigan   Graham Ekins    Sat, 12 Feb 2000   3:54am   Re: Michigan Tufted Duck   Dick Newell    Sat, 12 Feb 2000   11:41am   Tufted Ducks   Michael Retter    Sat, 12 Feb 2000   3:03pm   Yellow-legged Gull !?!   Dave DeReamus    Sat, 12 Feb 2000   7:40pm

To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'. This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.

[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Birders Journal Jaeger.
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <alvaro(AT)SIRIUS.COM>
Date: 6 Feb 2000 2:13pm

Birders:

  The latest isssue of Birders Journal (Vol 8 number 6) has a juvenile
jaeger photo on page 266 from Salmon Arm, British Columbia, Nov. 25, 1999.
If you don't receive Birders Journal, visit:

http://www.birdersjournal.com/

for more information on the magazine and how to subscribe.

In any case, this jaeger was identified as a juvenile Parasitic, but I
wonder why it is not a juvenile Pomarine. The bill is thick and long, with
a nicely demarcated dark tip. The coverts do not show any pale tips or
edges at all, except for the innermost. The primaries are fresh and show no
signs of paler fringes. The legs are thick, sturdy, and appear too massive
for Parasitic. Furthermore, I am sure I see nice wide, blunt tips to
rectrix 1. It is just one photo, but a darn close one where details can be
studied. I would like to learn if the ID criteria I am using are not
reliable, or if this bird can be safely re-identified as a Pomarine.
Finally, the late November date is better for a Pomarine than Parasitic,
particularly this far north.

regards,

Al

Alvaro Jaramillo
Senior Biologist
San Francisco Bay Bird Observatory
P.O. Box 247
Alviso, CA 95002
(408)-946-6548

http://www.sfbbo.org/
Home of the California Fall Challenge!!

alvaro(AT)sirius.com

Birds of Chile and
New World Blackbirds at : http://www.sirius.com/~alvaro


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Birder's Journal jaeger
From: Matt Heindel <MTHEINDEL(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 6 Feb 2000 4:50pm

I think Al is right that the bird is a Pom. Jon and I sent a note to Phill
Holder in this regard. It is always a little scary to ID these things by
photo, but I think Al points out all the critical factors. Jon is off to
Thailand, so he cannot elaborate, but the bill, looking large and bicolored
and the primaries were telling. Then, when he got to the date, ah, you should
have seen his glow. Perhaps with juv jaegers, we should just put the date;
the ID is then self-evident I hear.
Nice finch article by Al in this issue and a good moult piece by Steve Howell!

Matt Heindel
mtheindel(AT)aol.com
Irvine CA


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Hybrid Ducks
From: paullarkin <paullarkin(AT)PGEN.NET>
Date: 7 Feb 2000 12:38pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Hi All,

I am in regular touch with Eric Gillham and sent him print-offs of both =
Dave Rintouls Mystery Duck and the Brewers Duck. Having seen the =
photographs he comments.

"The images contain one of the most important contributions relating to =
Mallard hybrids we have received,
Re the Brewers Duck This bird is clearly a male GadwallXMallard although =
the head pattern  in the print out shows it to be a variation and not a =
typical example of Brewers . I will mention it in Bulletin No3.

Re Mystery Duck

This looks a definite male cross Teal (crecca)X Mallard although the =
images are poor.

Hopefully copies of the original photographs and more details =
(especially the TealXMallard e.g has it got a corolinensis white =
stripe?) can be sent to me, also details of observers names."

Can anyone oblige Eric with photos etc? He is not on-line but his =
address is

Mr E.H. Gillham,
90 Church Road,=20
West Row,
Bury St Edmunds,
Suffolk IP28 8PF
United Kingdom.

cheers
Paul.=20

----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: when did L. marinus colonised North America???
From: Pierre Andre Crochet <pierre_andre.crochet(AT)EVOLUTION.UU.SE>
Date: 8 Feb 2000 11:52am

Dear all,

I have read in del Hoyo that marinus recently extended its range in North
America,  but is there any information about when it first colonised?
Was it in historical times, or was it there already when ornithological
observations began in North America?

The reason I'm asking is that i'm trying to interpret my genetic data about
large gulls. The 2 marinus samples I have from NA have smithsonianus haplotypes.
Ok, there has been introgression, but this probably indicates than marinus began
 as a very small, hybridising population, in North America.
Any information to confirm this?

> Pierre-Andre Crochet
> Dept. of Animal Ecology
> Evolutionary Biology Centre
> Norbyvägen 18D
> S-752 36 Uppsala
> Sweden
> Tel . 018 471 64 85 or 46 18 471 64 85 from abroad
Mobile: 070 241 72 38 or 00 46 70 241 72 38 from abroad


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Minnesota GWGU??
From: "Stephen J. Dinsmore" <steve_dinsmore(AT)USGS.GOV>
Date: 8 Feb 2000 8:09pm

<P>Hello all-</P><P>         A few days ago Terenc=
e Brashear mentioned a photo of the<BR>     Minnesota Tufted Duck=
, located at</P><P>     http://biosci.cbs.umn.edu/~mou/recen=
t.html</P><P>     The photo of the Tufted duck was great, bu=
t we all independently<BR>     found something more interesting. =
The photo of the gull observed in<BR>     Cook County, MN, and id=
entified as a Glaucous-winged Gull, seems<BR>     rather atypical=
 for that species. We all question the identification<BR>     as =
Glaucous-winged Gull. Among other features, the bill shape (short<BR>  =
;   and noticeably thin), the small size (it appears smaller than<BR> =
    surrounding Herring Gulls), and generally dark, mottled appea=
rance of<BR>     this bird seem wrong for Glaucous-winged Gull. I=
n our opinion, the<BR>     possibility of an odd Herring Gull sho=
uld be seriously considered.<BR>     Admittedly, we have limited =
experience with Glaucous-winged Gull, so<BR>     we are intereste=
d in comments from others on this list regarding the<BR>     iden=
tification of this bird, especially those birders on the West<BR>   &n=
bsp; Coast.</P><P> </P><P>     Stephen J. Dinsmore (For=
t Collins, CO)</P><P>     Joel Jorgensen (Blair, NE)</P><P>&=
nbsp;    Ross Silcock (Tabor, IA)</P>


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Minnesote GWGU, again.
From: steve dinsmore <steve_dinsmore(AT)USGS.GOV>
Date: 9 Feb 2000 7:30am

     Hello all-

        Sorry for the re-post, but apparently my earlier message was
     unreadable by some. I hope this post corrects that.

        A few days ago Terence Brashear mentioned a photo of the Minnesota
     Tufted Duck, located at

     http://biosci.cbs.umn.edu/~mou/recent.html

        The photo of the Tufted duck was great, but we all independently
     found something more interesting. The photo of the gull observed n
     Cook County, MN, and identified as a Glaucous-winged Gull, seems>
     rather atypical for that species. We all question the dentification as
     Glaucous-winged Gull. Among other features, the bill shape (short and
     noticeably thin), the small size (it appears smaller than surrounding
     Herring Gulls), and generally dark, mottled appearance of this bird
     seem wrong for Glaucous-winged Gull. In our opinion, the possibility
     of an odd Herring Gull should be seriously considered. Admittedly, we
     have limited experience with Glaucous-winged Gull, so we are
     interested in comments from others on this list regarding the
     identification of this bird, especially those birders on the West
     Coast.

     Stephen J. Dinsmore (Fort Collins, CO) Joel Jorgensen (Blair, NE)
     Ross Silcock (Tabor, IA)


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Mystery gull in Belgium
From: "Adriaens, Peter" <padriaens(AT)C2000.BE>
Date: 10 Feb 2000 9:19am

Hi all,

below you can read a description of a very strange first winter (first
basic) gull which a friend of mine and I saw in Belgium last Sunday. It was
found in a flock of c. 500 argenteus Herring Gulls (and a few Lesser
Blackbacks, Great Black-backs, Common Gulls and many Black-headed Gulls). We
believe that it was a gull of American origin, even though there are
virtually no records of  American large gulls in Western Europe (but e.g.
quite a few of Ring-billed Gull); we first thought of Thayers, but it was
definitely not that species.

I would be grateful to receive any comments. Do you feel this was certainly
a gull of American origin, or could it be just a very unusual European
Herring Gull (argenteus/argentatus) ? If you think it was a hybrid, what
parent species could be involved ?

Unfortunately no pictures were taken since we did not have a camera with us
and the bird was seen only from some distance.

Regards,

Peter Adriaens

DESCRIPTION

Size and structure: Size comparable with small Herring Gull (argenteus),
thus marginally smaller than many Herrings nearby. Head shape more rounded,
with less sloping forehead, giving the bird a gentler expression reminiscent
of Iceland Gull, and bill clearly shorter and more 'stubby'. Gonydeal angle
still quite prominent. Leg lenghth and wing projection rather similar to
Herring.

Head: Cold greyish-brown, quite pale, but with a plain dark little mask
around eye, and some delicate streaking on crown, nape, neck, throat,...
Less clearly streaked/coarsely marked than Herring. Another prominent
feature of this bird, was a whitish patch on forehead, just above bill base.
Depending on the angle of view, there was sometimes the impression of a
whiter face to the greyish head.

Upperparts: Cold greyish brown, more delicately marked than in Herring.
Mantle and scapular feathers had only a small, rounded dark centre or slight
horizontal streak, not a double anchor pattern as in most 1W Herring Gulls.
I believe such a mantle pattern is rare in Herring, and again reminiscent of
Iceland/ Kumliens/ Thayers.
Uppertail-coverts pale greyish, delicately barred dark all over.

Underparts: Cold greyish brown, and very plain. In fact, too plain and
evenly coloured for typical argenteus/argentatus Herring Gull, lacking clear
streaking. Only the breast had some vague, ill-defined dark streaks on a
plain grey background.

Upperwings: a) perched: Cold brown primaries (slightly paler than the dark
brown primaries of nearby Herring Gulls) with obvious broad pale fringes,
forming long arrowheads on wingtip. Primaries clearly darker than rest of
upperwing/upperparts. Tertials pale greyish, with a broad brown shaft streak
and delicate brown barring (quite intricate pattern). Tertials matching
colour of coverts and therefore clearly paler than primaries. All
upperwingcoverts, including greaters, pale greyish, with delicate brown
barring. Even coverts less clearly marked than in 1W Herring.
b) In flight: Upperwing quite similar to Herring Gull in flight
(unfortunately...). No sign of pale inner vanes to outer primaries, these
being solidly brown, contrasting with pale window on inner primaries.
However, only 3 to 4 outers looked brownish, as opposed to 4 or 5 in
Herring. Also, the outer primaries showed much broader pale edges near the
tips, forming a slightly translucent pale trailing edge to these feathers.
Solidly brown and contrasting secondary bar. Pale (greyish)
upperwingcoverts.

Underwings: a) perched: Strangely enough, the underside of the wingtips
looked entirely pale (greyish-white), while the upperside was entirely brown
!
b) in flight: Predominantly pale; remiges slightly paler than greyish
underwingcoverts, palest on inner-primary window. Outer primaries much paler
than in Herring, with only a thin dark edge on outermost primary. No dark
tips to outer primaries were seen; they looked entirely pale. No dark
secondary bar visible.

Tail: Quite different from both Thayers and Herring Gull ! Mostly pale
greyish, with delicate brown barring all over, concentrated near tip of
tail, where it formed a thin brown tailband. So, it lacked the clear
blackish-brown tailband of 1W argenteus Herring Gull, and the very broad
dark band of 1W Thayers. Undertail even paler, but with delicate barring all
over; tailband still visible but even more ill-defined.
First winter argentatus may show a palish tail, with some barring in its
tailband, but such birds normally are very pale allover, with a mostly white
head and underparts, streaking on belly, breast and/or flanks, and obviously
pale billbase. The mantle pattern would normally be different as well
(double anchors), and general size, bill lenght and head shape were also
unlike this subspecies.

Bare parts: Iris dark. Legs dull pink. Bill dark (blackish), possibly with a
slightly paler area on the very base of the lower mandible.

Behaviour: Quite aggressive towards Herring Gulls nearby, grabbing one
unfortunate Herring by the hindneck at one time.


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: URL change, web site Llobregat Delta Nature
         Reserves
From: Ricard Gutierrez <GUTARB(AT)santandersupernet.com>
Date: 10 Feb 2000 1:57pm

Hello:
The other day I posted a message on photos of birds in NE Spain as well as
information on rare birds here. The web site of the Llobregat Delta Nature
Reserves where this information was HAS MOVED to another URL due to
administrative changes. Please note the new address and update bookmarks and
links if necessary:
http://www.gencat.es/mediamb/rndelta

Thank you very much

Ricard Gutierrez
Director Llobregat Delta Nature Reserves
Spanish Rarities Committee
10.2.2000


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: RFI - Cave Swallows subspecies revisited
From: Andrew Guthrie <Andrew.Guthrie(AT)EY.COM>
Date: 10 Feb 2000 3:17pm

In the wake of late 1999's Cave Swallow incursion into the Northeast, has anyone
 looked again at the subspecific identification of these vagrants?  As I recall,
 there were specimens recovered in Ontario and North Carolina - have these been
looked at?  For those observers lucky enough to take part in the phenomenon, did
 the opportunity to study these birds provide any additional insights into the
validity of the commonly discussed ID criteria (forehead & rump color;
underparts color; size) for the two likely candidate populations (SW
pelodoma/pallida vs. Carribean fulva)?  Angus Wilson & I are finalizing an
article for local publication on New York's 1998 sightings and are interested in
 any insights that would help evaluate the identity of those birds.

Cheers,
Andy Guthrie
Port Chester, NY

andrew.guthrie(AT)ey.com
or
andyguthrie(AT)earthlink.net

*******************************************************************************
Note:          The information contained in this message may be privileged and
confidential and protected from disclosure.  If the reader of this message is
not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering
this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us
immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
Thank you.  Ernst & Young LLP
*******************************************************************************


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Mystery gull in Belgium
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 10 Feb 2000 6:33pm

    Peter--You wouldn't be able to give us a drawing, however crude?

    Yours,

    Jim Barton
    redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
    Cambridge, MA

"Adriaens, Peter" wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> below you can read a description of a very strange first winter (first
> basic) gull which a friend of mine and I saw in Belgium last Sunday. It was
> found in a flock of c. 500 argenteus Herring Gulls (and a few Lesser
> Blackbacks, Great Black-backs, Common Gulls and many Black-headed Gulls). We
> believe that it was a gull of American origin, even though there are
> virtually no records of  American large gulls in Western Europe (but e.g.
> quite a few of Ring-billed Gull); we first thought of Thayers, but it was
> definitely not that species.
>
> I would be grateful to receive any comments. Do you feel this was certainly
> a gull of American origin, or could it be just a very unusual European
> Herring Gull (argenteus/argentatus) ? If you think it was a hybrid, what
> parent species could be involved ?
>
> Unfortunately no pictures were taken since we did not have a camera with us
> and the bird was seen only from some distance.
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Adriaens
>
> DESCRIPTION
>
> Size and structure: Size comparable with small Herring Gull (argenteus),
> thus marginally smaller than many Herrings nearby. Head shape more rounded,
> with less sloping forehead, giving the bird a gentler expression reminiscent
> of Iceland Gull, and bill clearly shorter and more 'stubby'. Gonydeal angle
> still quite prominent. Leg lenghth and wing projection rather similar to
> Herring.
>
> Head: Cold greyish-brown, quite pale, but with a plain dark little mask
> around eye, and some delicate streaking on crown, nape, neck, throat,...
> Less clearly streaked/coarsely marked than Herring. Another prominent
> feature of this bird, was a whitish patch on forehead, just above bill base.
> Depending on the angle of view, there was sometimes the impression of a
> whiter face to the greyish head.
>
> Upperparts: Cold greyish brown, more delicately marked than in Herring.
> Mantle and scapular feathers had only a small, rounded dark centre or slight
> horizontal streak, not a double anchor pattern as in most 1W Herring Gulls.
> I believe such a mantle pattern is rare in Herring, and again reminiscent of
> Iceland/ Kumliens/ Thayers.
> Uppertail-coverts pale greyish, delicately barred dark all over.
>
> Underparts: Cold greyish brown, and very plain. In fact, too plain and
> evenly coloured for typical argenteus/argentatus Herring Gull, lacking clear
> streaking. Only the breast had some vague, ill-defined dark streaks on a
> plain grey background.
>
> Upperwings: a) perched: Cold brown primaries (slightly paler than the dark
> brown primaries of nearby Herring Gulls) with obvious broad pale fringes,
> forming long arrowheads on wingtip. Primaries clearly darker than rest of
> upperwing/upperparts. Tertials pale greyish, with a broad brown shaft streak
> and delicate brown barring (quite intricate pattern). Tertials matching
> colour of coverts and therefore clearly paler than primaries. All
> upperwingcoverts, including greaters, pale greyish, with delicate brown
> barring. Even coverts less clearly marked than in 1W Herring.
> b) In flight: Upperwing quite similar to Herring Gull in flight
> (unfortunately...). No sign of pale inner vanes to outer primaries, these
> being solidly brown, contrasting with pale window on inner primaries.
> However, only 3 to 4 outers looked brownish, as opposed to 4 or 5 in
> Herring. Also, the outer primaries showed much broader pale edges near the
> tips, forming a slightly translucent pale trailing edge to these feathers.
> Solidly brown and contrasting secondary bar. Pale (greyish)
> upperwingcoverts.
>
> Underwings: a) perched: Strangely enough, the underside of the wingtips
> looked entirely pale (greyish-white), while the upperside was entirely brown
> !
> b) in flight: Predominantly pale; remiges slightly paler than greyish
> underwingcoverts, palest on inner-primary window. Outer primaries much paler
> than in Herring, with only a thin dark edge on outermost primary. No dark
> tips to outer primaries were seen; they looked entirely pale. No dark
> secondary bar visible.
>
> Tail: Quite different from both Thayers and Herring Gull ! Mostly pale
> greyish, with delicate brown barring all over, concentrated near tip of
> tail, where it formed a thin brown tailband. So, it lacked the clear
> blackish-brown tailband of 1W argenteus Herring Gull, and the very broad
> dark band of 1W Thayers. Undertail even paler, but with delicate barring all
> over; tailband still visible but even more ill-defined.
> First winter argentatus may show a palish tail, with some barring in its
> tailband, but such birds normally are very pale allover, with a mostly white
> head and underparts, streaking on belly, breast and/or flanks, and obviously
> pale billbase. The mantle pattern would normally be different as well
> (double anchors), and general size, bill lenght and head shape were also
> unlike this subspecies.
>
> Bare parts: Iris dark. Legs dull pink. Bill dark (blackish), possibly with a
> slightly paler area on the very base of the lower mandible.
>
> Behaviour: Quite aggressive towards Herring Gulls nearby, grabbing one
> unfortunate Herring by the hindneck at one time.


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Cave Swallows subspecies revisited
From: Harry LeGrand <Harry.LeGrand(AT)NCMAIL.NET>
Date: 11 Feb 2000 6:28am

The specimen from NC in late fall 1999 is of the southwestern race, according to
 John Gerwin at the NC State Museum of Natural Sciences.  This is the first
specimen for the state. NC had two other sight reports of Cave Swallow in Nov. -
 Dec. 1999, plus four previous sight records (one a photograph that
distinguished it from Cliff, but not to the specific race).

Most or all of these are suspected of being the southwestern race. No one yet
has observed distinct buffy washes on the flanks that might hint at the West
Indies fulva race; some even mentioned that the birds did not have buffy flanks.
 Of these four records, three are Dec. - Feb, and one is May.

One might guess that late fall and winter records in the East would be of birds
from the southwest, in part because other southwestern species trend eastward at
 that time, and West Indies/Florida birds normally do not move northward in late
 fall. A bird in May could be either race, perhaps a spring overshoot fulva, or
a southwestern bird.

Harry LeGrand

Andrew Guthrie wrote:

> In the wake of late 1999's Cave Swallow incursion into the Northeast, has
anyone looked again at the subspecific identification of these vagrants?  As I
recall, there were specimens recovered in Ontario and North Carolina - have
these been looked at?  For those observers lucky enough to take part in the
phenomenon, did the opportunity to study these birds provide any additional
insights into the validity of the commonly discussed ID criteria (forehead &
rump color; underparts color; size) for the two likely candidate populations (SW
 pelodoma/pallida vs. Carribean fulva)?  Angus Wilson & I are finalizing an
article for local publication on New York's 1998 sightings and are interested in
 any insights that would help evaluate the identity of those birds.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy Guthrie
> Port Chester, NY
>
> andrew.guthrie(AT)ey.com
> or
> andyguthrie(AT)earthlink.net
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> Note:          The information contained in this message may be privileged and
 confidential and protected from disclosure.  If the reader of this message is
not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering
this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us
immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
Thank you.  Ernst & Young LLP
>
*******************************************************************************

--
Harry E. LeGrand, Jr.
N.C. Natural Heritage Program
Division of Parks and Recreation
1615 MSC
Raleigh, NC 27699-1615

Office: (919) 715-8687
Home: (919) 832-3202
FAX: (919) 715-3085
e-mail: harry.legrand(AT)ncmail.net
http://ils.unc.edu/parkproject/nhp/index.html


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Flank colour - Cave Swallow incursion into
         Ontario
From: "Adamo, Alfred" <AAdamo(AT)PUROLATOR.COM>
Date: 11 Feb 2000 10:02am

Based on close and leisurely views of Cave Swallows in good light at Long
Point Provincial Park, Ontario on Nov. 4, 1999 I noted that on all Cave
Swallows observed (6-8), the flanks were grayish, not buffy.  This is
characteristic of the southwestern U.S. pelodoma/pallida populations.  As
this Cave Swallow incursion was presumably due to displacement by a strong
low pressure system originating in Texas, this plumage feature appears to be
consistent with their likely origin.

Alfred Adamo
Mississauga, ON
E-mail: aadamo(AT)purolator.com


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: subspecific taxonomy of the Cave Swallow
From: "Michael A. Patten" <patten(AT)UCRAC1.UCR.EDU>
Date: 11 Feb 2000 10:16am

Dear friends,

As Harry LeGrand already noted, the specimen from North Carolina proved to
be _Petrochelidon fulva pallida_.  So far as I know, the bird from Ontario
did as well.  Thus, as many have opined over the years, birds from the
Southwest are showing up as vagrants in the East in fall.  Doug McNair and
William Post have a good summary paper in press covering the details of
Cave Swallow movements in both fall and spring.

Note that use of the subspecific name _pelodoma_ applies only if the Cave
Swallow is maintained in the genus _Hirundo_ (the name _pallida_ is
preoccupied in that genus).  If placed in _Petrochelidon_, as the A.O.U.
has recently done, then the subspecies name is _P. f. pallida_.

When speaking of birds from the West Indies, bear in mind that a different
subspecies, _P. f. cavicola_, occurs on Cuba.  It is only marginally
distinct from nominate _P. f. fulva_, so perhaps it is not valid, but as it
stands the subspecies is generally recognized (at least until someone
completes a thorough taxonomic revision).  Therefore, birds from the West
Indies that appear in the East might be either _P. f. fulva_ or _P. f.
cavicola_, but these subspecies could not be distinguished in the field.

Cheers,
Michael

****************************
Michael A. Patten
Department of Biology
University of California
Riverside, California 92521
patten(AT)citrus.ucr.edu
****************************


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: subspecific taxonomy of the Cave Swallow
From: Ian Mclaren <iamclar(AT)IS.DAL.CA>
Date: 11 Feb 2000 11:15am

Michael, et al.

I guess most know that the two Nova Scotia spring specimens were P. f.
cavicola - Cuban. Is there not something somewhere about that being the
more migratory of the WI races?

Cheers, Ian M.

Ian A. McLaren
Biology Department                              phone: (902) 494-2565 (W)
Dalhousie University                                   (902) 429-7024 (H)
Halifax, NS  B3H 4J1                            Fax: (902) 494-3736


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Fw: Tufted Duck
From: paullarkin <paullarkin(AT)PGEN.NET>
Date: 11 Feb 2000 11:57am

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

What Ho chaps!

Being a Brit with no experience of GWGU I did have doubts as well. See =
comments on Tufty and the Gull.

Cheers
Paul
----- Original Message -----=20
From: paullarkin=20
To: terence.p.brashear(AT)SYNTEGRA.COM=20
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 5:41 PM
Subject: Tufted Duck

Terence,

Judging only on the photograph as it appears, if I had seen this bird in =
the UK I would have said it was a 1st year drake, albeit somewhat =
retarded in moult. However the brown colouration is a bit worrying. The =
tone of the head looks darker than the body is this the case? If so the =
darker head, length of tuft, degree of white on the flanks and the blue =
colour of the bill with white subterminal strip all suggest a drake to =
me. Also the eye looks rather too yellow for a duck. The white blaze is =
extremely variable, some ducks have it, some do not, some even look =
Scaup (greater) like in this respect. I have even seen eclipse drakes =
with it. In some ways this bird (from the photographs) almost looks like =
an eclipse drake in October/November. I suppose without ducks present =
the eclipse moult might be retarded.......
I will give our local tufties a good grilling in the next couple of days =
to see if I can find something similar.

Changing the subject. The Glaucous-winged Gull, is this typical? The =
bill looks a bit thin and weedy to my untrained eye and isn't there =
rather too much pale on it for 2nd winter. The whole bird looks rather =
attenuated, although I cannot make out the tail. I have seen birds like =
this in the UK and they are leucistic Herring Gulls hence the GW like =
primaries. I rather thought GW was a chunky Glaucous Gull type bird, are =
my impressions wrong?

Hope the Tufted information is of help. If I glean anything more I will =
be in touch.

Cheers
Paul.

----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Michigan Tufted Duck
From: Allen T Chartier <amazilia(AT)JUNO.COM>
Date: 11 Feb 2000 12:24pm

Birders,

Like Minnesota, Michigan is hosting a bird identified as a Tufted Duck.
Also like Minnesota, we seem to be short on infomation on the range of
plumage variation among females, 1st year males, and their molt cycle.  I
would appreciate any comments from those that have extensive Tufted Duck
experience, and suggestions that can that can be backed up by published
information regarding the appearance of our bird and what it might likely
be.

Photos of the bird can be found at:
http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/rouge_river/Recentr.htm

Thanks.

Allen Chartier
1442 West River Park Drive
Inkster, MI  48141
amazilia(AT)juno.com


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Unusual Northern Shrike??????
From: Bob & Carol Yutzy <boby(AT)c-zone.net>
Date: 11 Feb 2000 2:02pm

Evan Obercian wrote:
>
> Gullovers et al,
>
> A few weeks ago I posed a question regarding apparent adult American Herring
> Gulls with a dusky spot (or less frequently, narrow subterminal ring) on the
> bill, and its relationship to age (i.e. only 4th-yr?).  It was requested by
> a few that I post the responses.  Instead I'll just summarize some of the
> helpful replies I received; the consensus was that this is indeed normal for
> adult basic HEGUs.  Whether or not these are 4th (or even 5th) year birds is
> essentially open to speculation (i.e. more study is needed with birds of
> known age).  However, one reports that several captive HEGUs older than 4yrs
> still show the mark.
>
> I have begun to notice a gradual skewing of the ratio as more Herrings are
> acquiring alternate-like features (including bright orange bills with
> blood-red gonys spots) by this date; however, others maintain sickly yellow
> bills with dusky spots.  I am interested to see when all are changed.
>
> While I'm on, I might as well ask another question; several days ago I
> studied at very close range an immature Northern Shrike (in NJ) that had
> many juvenile-like characteristics: the mask was nothing more than a
> brownish smudge on the face; it had a rather bold eye-ring; the back was
> completely buff-brown; the wings were brownish-black with diffuse off-white
> edgings to the tertials, greater coverts, etc; the underparts were strongly
> barred and with a buffy wash all over, especially on the flanks; the tail
> was brownish-black; and the bill had a large fleshy area on the lower
> mandible.  The bird was quite different from my experience with immature
> NSHRs; anyone who has experience with N Shrike plumage variation (anyone??)
> or who can comment on this is most welcome to do so...
>
> Thanks and good birding(gulling),
>
> Evan Obercian
> Tewksbury, NJ
> ewilsono(AT)hotmail.com
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Re: The Northern Shrike.  It is the most common winter shrike in our
high basin country here in Shasta County and we see 5 to 10 each year.

Your description sounds like all the immature Northerns we see.  What do
you see as diffferent or not normal?  Possibly the extensive buffiness
underneath or the brownish black tail?

Good Shriking!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bob & Carol Yutzy    from Redding,  CA./far northern hinterlands
boby(AT)c-zone.net  Words to live by - "Let it go, Louie - Let it go!"
                     (sage advice from one lizard to another)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: CASW subspecies ident.
From: Glenda Slessor <Glenda_Slessor(AT)CHAT.HALTONBE.ON.CA>
Date: 11 Feb 2000 3:47pm

Kevin Mclaughlin and I are writing a paper on the Fall 1999 Cave Swallow
invasion for Ontario Birds.  We have photographs and measurements of two
birds: a specimen of a moribund bird I picked up at Point Pelee and a bird
trapped and banded at the tip of Long Point.   Both are in pre-basic 1
moult and measurements indicate that both birds are pallida.

McLaughlins description of birds studied at Pelee indicated grey wash on
sides of breast and belly.  However, when we examined the specimen (and Im
looking at transparencies of this bird right now) the flanks are
greyish-buff. These grey feathers are tipped in buff and those flank
feathers closest to the off-white breast are quite buffy.  The pattern and
shading are the same in the prints of the Long Point bird.

Although, circumstances precluded my studying these Ontario birds in
flight, my conclusion, based upon these photos and one taken of a bird in
flight at Pelee in December 1998, is that the use of flank colour is not
conclusive of subspecific identity.  Im also a bit skeptical of apparent
size in the field in the absence of direct comparison of subspecies.

Bob Curry
30-3115 New Street
Burlington, ON
L7N 3T6
slessorg(AT)haltonbe.on.ca


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: curious Lanius excubitor
From: Evan Obercian <ewilsono(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 11 Feb 2000 3:50pm

Shrikeologists,

Since the subject has again risen, I managed to sift through 57 thousand
accumulated emails to find these three responses to my initial query.  Sorry
not to do so sooner.  Scroll down to the last message for "the answer".

Re Cave Swallows, were any vocalizations recorded during the incursion?  And
how distinct are the differences?  I gather WI birds (fulva and kin) give
softer, more liquidy calls than do birds of the SW (pelodoma/pallida).

Good birding,
Evan Obercian
ewilsono(AT)hotmail.com
NJ

------------------------------------------------

Evan,

On 9 Jan 00 my partner Jude Claire Power and I saw just such a Northern
Shrike at the south end of Humboldt Bay along the northernmost CA coast.
I'd seen my share of young shrikes (been birding since the early 70s) and
had never, ever seen anything quite like it.  The mask was so reduced that
you had to look twice to see it.  The whole bird was a warm, tawny
brownish.. although it had white rump, black and white in wings and tail,
etc.  Normally by January you can still immediately age them at very long
range, but this bird was so odd for the date that I had to make real sure we
weren't dealing with some Old World Shrike (no, it wasn't... and two records
of Brown Shrike in this state do give one pause).

Intrigued that you should post on this subject.  I'd never even heard of
such a report prior to seeing this one.

David

David Fix and Jude Claire Power
Arcata, California
Nation Of Humboldt, Klamath Konundrum
Gaia, Local Cluster
41'51" N, 124'04" W

-----------------------------------------------

Evan,

I saw a N. Shrike essentially identical in all features to the one you
described, only I thought the tail was closer to flat black than brownish
and I was unable to note obvious breast barring.  This was in Garrett County
in extreme western MD on Sunday, 23 Jan 2000.  I'll be interested if you can
copy any responses you receive, as I too was very surprised at how much this
bird looked like it was in juvenile, rather than a first-winter, plumage.  A
couple other youngsters I've seen have not been nearly so brown and have had
much more obvious masks.

Best,

Marshall Iliff
miliff(AT)aol.com

============
Marshall J. Iliff
Annapolis, MD
miliff(AT)aol.com
=============

------------------------------------------

Hi Evan -

I think your bird was still primarily in juvenal plumage which is not too
atypical since they molt out of this plumage on the wintering grounds. Most
HYs on the wintering grounds assume a first-basic appearance (dull gray)
before the end of the year but I have seen at least a couple in California
that have appeared as your bird did into February. Perhaps birds othat have
migrated farther retain more juvenal plumage later in the season, which is
the case among gulls. Hope this helps.

Peter Pyle

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Carolina vs. BC Chickadee
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 11 Feb 2000 8:14pm

    Friends--I've just searched both the Birdchat and IDFrontiers
archives, and come up with practially nothing on >>visual<<  ID of
Carolina vs. BC Chickadee.   One message deals with comparing the
markings of wing coverts to the markings of tertials, and another to the
shape of the pigtail on the crown where it joins the back., and another
to comparing the markings of the wing coverts to the markings of the
outer tail feathers (if I understand the message correctly).

    Of course, the standard ID books cite the lack of white margins to
the wing coverts.  But several old messages say that's not reliable.
I'm not surprised.   Another old (1995) message refers to a difference
in the length of the tail.

    May I solicit your thoughts/opinions/polemics?

    Yours,

    Jim Barton
    redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
    Cambridge, MA


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Allen's Humingbirds
From: Matt Heindel <MTHEINDEL(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 11 Feb 2000 10:00pm

Michael Patten was away from his access and asked me to post this for him. mh

**********
Re: _Selasphorus sasin_ subspecies wintering on the south coast

The problem of identifying subspecies of the Allen's Hummingbird has
actually been worked out, though it was by Gary Stiles some while back.  I
rather doubt that a mass of additional data will be needed to elucidate the
differences any further.  After all, the principal distinction is bill
length, with 16 mm or less being nominate and 17 mm or more being _S. s.
sedentarius_.  And yes, like distinctions between most subspecies, there is
some overlap.

That said, everyone should be aware that BOTH subspecies of the Allen's
Hummingbird have been collected in winter in San Diego County (specimens at
the San Diego Natural History Museum). . . .  Thus, whereas it is appealing
to assume that the wintering population is the "sedentary" subspecies, we
should not forget that the nominate subspecies also winters on occasion.

The massive urbanization of cismontane southern California has created a
plethora of hummingbird habitat.  Ornamental flowers now prevalent
throughout suburbia in the Southwest can be implicated in range expansions
of various hummingbirds, including Anna's (the differences between its
range four decades ago and currently are astounding), Costa's,
Black-chinned, Rufous, and Allen's.

Cheers,
Michael

Michael A. Patten
Dept. Biology, University of California, Riverside
San Diego Natural History Museum, San Diego

****************************
Michael A. Patten
Department of Biology
University of California


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Black-Capped/Carolina Chickadees
From: Dave DeReamus <becard(AT)FAST.NET>
Date: 11 Feb 2000 11:38pm

Hi Jim and all,

One field mark that you may already know about but didn't mention in your
post is the appearance of the bottom of the black bib.  The bottom edge of
the Carolina's bib is USUALLY a much 'cleaner' cut than that of the
Black-capped's.  In other words, the bottom edge appears as if it was
trimmed with a sideburn trimmer.  The Black-capped's edge appears a little
more 'rumpled-looking.'

Living fairly close to where the two ranges meet in PA, this point does tend
to hold true; however, the trick is getting a good enough look at the bird
to be able to use it.  Of course, this is nothing, alone, to base an ID
on-----just one of the small things that MAY be able to be seen.

Good birding,

Dave DeReamus
Compiler of the 'Eastern PA Birdline'
Easton, PA
becard(AT)fast.net
________________________

Jim Barton wrote:

    Friends--I've just searched both the Birdchat and IDFrontiers
archives, and come up with practially nothing on >>visual<<  ID of
Carolina vs. BC Chickadee.

    May I solicit your thoughts/opinions/polemics?

    Yours,

    Jim Barton
    redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
    Cambridge, MA


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Aythya duck in Michigan
From: Graham Ekins <grekins(AT)EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Date: 12 Feb 2000 3:54am

---Original Message-----
From: Allen T Chartier <amazilia(AT)JUNO.COM>
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Date: 11 February 2000 19:30
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Michigan Tufted Duck

Hi Allen,

Regarding your interesting duck.  For the last nine years I have been
involved in duck ringing at Abberton Reservoir, near Colchester, Essex,
England.  I have had the opportunity to ring several hundred Tufted Ducks
and handle retraps of known ages.
My initial thoughts on your bird based on the excellent series of
photographs at your website is that this bird is not a pure Tufted Duck.
However I need to know a lot more about its age.  Would it be possible to
collect the following information?
At this time of year first winter Tufted Ducks (chicks in 1999) of either
sex will have some juvenile tail feathers.  They can be identified as the
bird dives and raises its tail.  The juvenile feathers do not have the adult
sheen; are less spatulate and more lanceolate and most telling of all have a
v notch at their distal end- the remnants of the duckling filoplumes.  If
all the tail feathers are broad, clean ended and dark in colour then this
bird is an adult and even more perplexing.  To add to this it is likely in
February that first winter Tufted Ducks will still retain one or two worn,
lanceolate tertials.  They can be seen in good light from some distance.
The adult tertials -moulted in slowly from late winter resemble the tail
feathers in being glossier, darker and broader as well as being long.
I will not go on as it is pointless if you already have all the information
you require.  I do however have a lot of information on onset of spring body
moult, head shape and bill coloration in the different age classes etc.
Regards,
Graham Ekins
Grekins(AT)msn.com
Work 01245-256030 ext 27
Home 01245-460656
Mobile 0411 709 389
35, Church Road, Boreham, Essex CM3 3BN, England


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Michigan Tufted Duck
From: Dick Newell <Dick.Newell(AT)SMALLWORLD.CO.UK>
Date: 12 Feb 2000 11:41am

re: http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/rouge_river/Recentr.htm
If I found this bird in England, I would probably try to turn it into a
Ring-necked Duck because of it's shape. The shape of the flank panel doesn't
look right for Tufted Duck either. It is very different from any
female/immature Tufted Duck that I have ever seen. I therefore think it is a
hybrid, but with what? The nail on the end of the bill resembles Lesser
Scaup, which also seems the most plausible. I would expect the influence of
any other north American Aythya to be more obvious - These are the
impressions of a mere English birdwatcher and lacking the necessary
expertise I wouldn't want to venture any firmer opinion than this.
Dick Newell


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Tufted Ducks
From: Michael Retter <mretter(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 12 Feb 2000 3:03pm

All,

The first thing that caught my eye when I looked at the online pictures of
the current Michigan bird was its very peaked head.  So I then figured it
was possibly a Ring-necked x Tufted Duck hybrid.  However, in two of the
pictures, the bird appears to have some barely noticeable, pale
vermicualtions on the back.  I suppose this could just be my monitor, but if
present, this would indicate scaup parentage, yes?  With such a peaked head,
my guess would be it's Lesser Scaup x Tufted Duck.

It should be noted that I an speaking with only limited experience with an
apparent 1st year male Tufted in Illinois this October.  That bird has not
yet been ruled on by IORC.  For what it's worth, that's bird head showed no
peak.  For those who are interested, I have included (after my closing)
notes on that bird, which really puzzles me as to its age and sex.  I'd
appreciate any thoughts on its ID, gender, and age.

Michael L. P. Retter
Illinois Wesleyan University
Bloomington, McLean Co, IL
mretter(AT)hotmail.com
mretter(AT)sun.iwu.edu
http://www.iwu.edu/~mretter
________

1st day:
30-70 yds. with good side lighting

BILL:  dull blue-gray, outer 1/5 black; barely discernable white ring
between black tip and blue basal portion - white fades into blue.  Very
faint white border to base of beak (on beak).  Barely smaller than beaks of
adjacent Lesser Scaup.  No difference noted in size between it and the
Ring-necks.

HEAD:  mostly dull black, but w/ some dull greenish sheen.  Whitish mottling
at base of beak - not extensive.  Shaggy crest on back of crown - not really
long, but long enough that it flopped around when bird turned its head.
Crown shape overall curved evenly.  A little more curved at the forehead.
Rear of the crown NOT peaked.  Eye pale yellow-gray.

BODY:  a broad necklace of messed up feathers created a pale necklace effect
because the feather bases were whitish.  The breast was very finely
patterned w/ lines and vermiculations of black and dark brown.  Flanks/sides
were a pale gray stained/washed with brownish.  No white crescent extended
up between the breast and flanks.  A black "vent-strap" or belt went
underneath between the sides and the undertail coverts.  Wings and mantle
flat black with no pale markings or vermiculations.  Tail black.

add'l notes - from day 2:
1/4 mile with sun behind observer:

When the bird flaps, there is a striking pure white wing stripe extending
from the secondaries to far up the primaries.  White underside of body.

So, can we safely age and/or sex the bird.  And is it definitely a pure
Tufted Duck?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Yellow-legged Gull !?!
From: Dave DeReamus <becard(AT)FAST.NET>
Date: 12 Feb 2000 7:40pm

To ID Frontiers,

The following is a post that I put on PABirds about a gull that we saw in
the Tullytown area of Pennsylvania.  Any comments from the expert Larophiles
would be appreciated since a positive call on this bird is WAY out of my
league.

Thanks in advance.

Dave DeReamus
Compiler of the 'Eastern PA Birdline'
Easton, PA
becard(AT)fast.net
_________________________

Jason Horn, Devich Farbotnik, and I had a gull that we all believe to be an
adult winter YELLOW-LEGGED GULL along the Delaware River just below the
Tullytown landfill in Bucks County.  The bird was seen this afternoon from
about 2:45 to 3:45 PM.  At 3:45, most of the gulls took off and flew down
river.

We watched the bird from the southernmost of the two riverside parks on the
Florence, NJ side of the river.  The bird was on the PA shoreline southwest
of the park.  It was seen in the direction of a run-down-looking factory
that is to the right of some large, yellow tanks.

The bird was originally found by Jason while he was attempting to count the
number of Lesser Black-backeds.  While scanning through one the larger
groups of gulls, he noticed one that had a mantle color different from all
the rest.  He pointed it out to us, and the following is what we observed:

While reading this, keep in mind that while we were studying this bird, the
same field of view contained Great Black-backed, Lesser Black-backed,
Herring, and Ring-billed Gulls that we could use for comparison-----a big
help.

1) The bird was practically the same size as the Herring Gulls around it.
2) The bird's mantle was noticeably darker than the Herrings' (the thing
that made Jason notice it in the first place), yet it was nowhere near the
darker shade of the Lesser Black-backeds'.
3) The legs were yellow (they appeared a bright yellow before the sky
clouded over).
4) The head was almost entirely white except for a small area around the
eye.
5) The head also appeared "flat-looking", creating a peak at the back of the
head. This peaked area somewhat reminded me of the shape of a Caspian Tern's
head.
6) The white spots on the primaries looked very close to that on the
Herrings and not anything like the Lesser Black-backeds.
7) The bill was yellow with a red gony spot, but more than that was tough to
determine due to the distance that we were from the bird (about 200 yards).

California Gull was ruled out due to the noticeably darker back (not just
slightly darker), and the fact that the head was almost entirely white, not
streaked like a winter adult California would show.

The 'vegae' race of Herring was also ruled out because of the white head.

Devich took some video of the bird.  The video shows most of the features
mentioned above.  I attempted to take some photos, but it is unknown at this
time what they will show.

Since none of us have previously seen a Yellow-legged Gull, it would be
great if this bird could be refound.  Scan through the gulls and look for a
mantle color that falls between Herring and Lesser Black-backed.  If this
bird isn't a Yellow-legged, I would love to know what else it could be.

Other gulls that we saw there included a first-winter Glaucous and at least
2 first-winter Iceland Gulls.  All in all, an excellent day!

Good birding,

Dave DeReamus
Compiler of the 'Eastern PA Birdline'
Easton, PA
becard(AT)fast.net