ID-FRONTIERS for March 26-31, 2000

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   More on possible American Herring Gull in Cornwall, UK   Angus Wilson    Sun, 26 Mar 2000   3:31pm   Listowner message - an Old Squaw postscript from the AOU   Beth and Will Russel   Sun, 26 Mar 2000   6:30pm   Re: Possible American Herring Gull in Cornwall, UK   Adriaens, Peter   Mon, 27 Mar 2000   12:31am   Strange diving duck ID   Cliff and Lisa Weiss   Mon, 27 Mar 2000   10:01am   Re: gull education   Greg Gillson    Tue, 28 Mar 2000   10:20am   more gulls from Siberia   Martin Reid    Fri, 31 Mar 2000   7:23am   Identification of Fea's and Zino's Petrels   Harry LeGrand    Fri, 31 Mar 2000   7:26am

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Subject: More on possible American Herring Gull in
         Cornwall, UK
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 26 Mar 2000 3:31pm

**** Putative smithsonianus Herring Gull from Newlyn, UK ****

Richard Millington sent me a couple of additional pictures taken by Mashuq
Ahmed. The new shots show the all dark tail to good effect as well as some
detail of the spread wings.

The URL is:

http://www.best.com/~petrel/JWAmHEGU.html

Comments on the identity of this bird would also be useful to the finders
and other UK birders.

Cheers, Angus Wilson

***********************************
New York City
tel: (212) 263-0206
Fax: (212) 263-8276
E-mail: wilsoa02(AT)popmail.med.nyu.edu
Bird ID Web Site: http://www.best.com/~petrel/index.html


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Subject: Listowner message - an Old Squaw postscript from
         the AOU
From: Beth and Will Russell <russell(AT)RTD.COM>
Date: 26 Mar 2000 6:30pm

Andrew W. Kratter, a member of the AOU Committee on Classification and
Nomenclature, has asked if I would post the following statement.
Discussion, if any, should be carried on elsewhere.  Thanks.   WCR -
ID-Frontiers Listowner

Dear Frontiers of Identification readers-

As a a member of the AOU Committee on Classification and Nomenclature
(or
the infamous Checklist committee), I feel that is is necessary to
respond
in light of the recent thread on changing the English name of the
Oldsquaw.

 The following is our official statement regarding the change.

subject: official AOU-CLC word on changing the English name Oldsquaw
> (Clangula hyemalis) .
>
> The Committee was petitioned by a group of biologists with the U.S.
Fish
> and Wildlife Service in Alaska to change the name of Clangula hyemalis
from
> Oldsquaw to Long-tailed Duck, the English name used for the species
outside
> North America.  The basis for the petition was that the species was
> declining in numbers in Alaska, and conservation management plans
required
> the help of Native Americans.  The biologists believed the name
Oldsquaw to
> be offensive and were concerned about using that name  for fear of
offending
> the Native Americans.  Requests to change the name had been made to
the
> committee in past years by some who consider the word "squaw" to be
> offensive to women.  The Committee refuses to consider political
correctness
> in changing long-standing English names of birds, but is willing in
this
> instance to adopt an alternative name that is in use in much of the
world.
>
Sincerely,

Andrew W. Kratter
AOU Committee on Classification and Nomenclature

Richard Banks, Chair
Carla Cicero
Jon Dunn
Andrew W. Kratter
Pamela Rasmussun
Douglas Stotz
J. V. Remsen
James D. Rising


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Subject: Re: Possible American Herring Gull in Cornwall,
         UK
From: "Adriaens, Peter" <padriaens(AT)C2000.BE>
Date: 27 Mar 2000 12:31am

Hi all,

people interested in American Herring Gull can also take a look at
http://hobbes.rug.ac.be/~steven, where they will find drawings of the
probable smithsonianus in Belgium from a few weeks ago.
Again, comments would be very much appreciated; it would be nice if we could
share them with the list, since there are not many good ID articles on this
form.

Regards,

Peter

[[[original message]]]-----Original Message-----
[[[original message]]]From: Angus Wilson
[[[original message]]][mailto:wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU]
[[[original message]]]Sent: vrijdag 24 maart 2000 19:14
[[[original message]]]To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
[[[original message]]]Subject: [BIRDWG01] Possible American
[[[original message]]]Herring Gull in Cornwall, UK
[[[original message]]]
[[[original message]]]
[[[original message]]]**** Possible American Herring Gull in
[[[original message]]]Cornwall, UK ****
[[[original message]]]
[[[original message]]]At the risk of boring everyone to tears
[[[original message]]]with more large gull ID questions,
[[[original message]]]I have posted two photos by Jim Willson
[[[original message]]]of a presumed 2nd-year American
[[[original message]]]Herring Gull from Newlyn Harbour in
[[[original message]]]Cornwall, England. The photos were
[[[original message]]]taken on 13 March 2000 and the bird may
[[[original message]]]still be present at this location.
[[[original message]]]In addition, I have includes several
[[[original message]]]shots of American Herring Gulls (1st,
[[[original message]]]2nd and 3rd yrs) taken in New York, USA
[[[original message]]]one day prior to Jim's pictures.
[[[original message]]]The URL is:
[[[original message]]]
[[[original message]]]http://www.best.com/~petrel/JWAmHEGU.html
[[[original message]]]
[[[original message]]]Jim (and presumably other UK birders)
[[[original message]]]would appreciate any feedback on the
[[[original message]]]identity of this bird. Additional
[[[original message]]]descriptions or photographs of this bird
[[[original message]]]would also be useful.
[[[original message]]]
[[[original message]]]Cheers, Angus Wilson
[[[original message]]]
[[[original message]]]***********************************
[[[original message]]]New York City
[[[original message]]]tel: (212) 263-0206
[[[original message]]]Fax: (212) 263-8276
[[[original message]]]E-mail: wilsoa02(AT)popmail.med.nyu.edu
[[[original message]]]Bird ID Web Site:
[[[original message]]]http://www.best.com/[[[original
message]]]~petrel/index.html
[[[original message]]]


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Subject: Strange diving duck ID
From: Cliff and Lisa Weisse <october(AT)IDA.NET>
Date: 27 Mar 2000 10:01am

----DELETED HTML-ENCODED SECTION----


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Subject: Re: gull education
From: Greg Gillson <greg.gillson(AT)EXGATE.TEK.COM>
Date: 28 Mar 2000 10:20am

Phil Pickering and I have been working some months now on creating a gull
identification page geared toward intermediate birders. These pages are for
those: "I don't do gulls," people.

We discuss the identification of the regular gulls in the Pacific Northwest.
The pages start with aging gulls, and continue with photo and text
comparisons of all ages of "Herring vs. Western" and "Herring vs. Thayer's."
Still to be completed is a page on the hybrid Western/Glaucous-winged, and
other ideas which may have to wait until the gulls return next fall for
photo ops.

It is so difficult to make accurate statements concerning gulls without some
obvious exception poking up its head. I would like the readers of ID
Frontiers to critique the page and send suggestions, before the page is made
available to the general public. Remember, the goal is not to identify every
mutant gull (apparently the de facto topic of ID Frontiers!). Rather, it is
to teach gull ID beyond what is in the field guides, concentrating primarily
on Pacific Northwest gulls.

The page (not yet available to the general public) is at:
http://www.teleport.com/~guide/gulls/index.htm

Please send all comments/corrections to: guide(AT)teleport.com

Thank you.

Greg Gillson
Beaverton, OR


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Subject: more gulls from Siberia
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 31 Mar 2000 7:23am

Dear all,
I have added a number of new images to my gulls section, including some
excellent adult Slaty-backs and Vegas from Alaska  (courtesy of Don
Cunningham) plus some large gulls from Korea by Jin-Young Park, including
an odd white-winged gull (comments sought).
I would also like to invite comment on the Feb 12, 2000 addition of an LBBG
from Texas in late January that has P7 as its longest primary:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullinx.htm
Thanks,
Martin
Martin Reid
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com  or  http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa


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Subject: Identification of Fea's and Zino's Petrels
From: Harry LeGrand <Harry.LeGrand(AT)NCMAIL.NET>
Date: 31 Mar 2000 7:26am

I assume that most subscribers to Frontiers are members of the ABA and
receive Birding magazine. The recently published April 2000 issue has
reached my hands, and it contains letters that Mike Tove and I wrote
concerning the ABA Checklist Committee accepting Fea's/Zino's Petrel to
the ABA Checklist, rather than Fea's Petrel specifically. The Chair of
the Committee wondered how Tove and I, and other observers, could "so
adamantly" rule out Zino's Petrel.

It is true that I have not seen a Zino's Petrel. However, my letter to
the Editor of Birding contained additional paragraphs about this matter
that were not published. I am basing my conclusions (that probably all
of the Fea's/Zino's seen off NC are indeed Fea's) on photographs, and
some text descriptions. Good photographs of Fea's Petrels, and presumed
Zino's Petrels, can be found in "Seabirds of the World", by Jim Enticott
and David Tipling, 1997. All pelagic birding fanatics need to have this
excellent reference. Page 63 contains a good series of photos, both of
birds in flight and birds in the hand. (You should print out these
comments so that you can compare these with the photos in the book. If
you don't have the book, these comments may be of only partial help to
you.)

Figure 3, listed as [Presumed] Fea's Petrel. I would certainly say it is
a a Fea's, and this bird looks identical to the birds we are seeing and
photographing off NC. Note the very long and pointed wings, hint of an M
pattern on the mantle (at least from the body to the wrist), and the
white rump and tail, with the pointed tail. The bill size cannot be
readily determined.

Figure 4, listed as [Presumed] Fea's Petrel. I also consider this to be
a Fea's and matches the photos of most birds seen off NC. This underside
shot shows the dark underwing and the long, pointed wings. The bill
looks medium-sized.

Figure 5, listed as [Presumed] Fea's Petrel. This, I strongly believe,
is a Zino's Petrel. It certainly has a different jizz from the birds in
Figure 3 and 4. Note that this is presumably the same bird as appears in
Figure 7 of Tove's article in the June 1997 issue of Birding (labelled
there as "Possible Zino's Petrel"). This bird has short and clearly
rounded wings, much different from the long and pointed wings of typical
Fea's (which remind observers of the same wing shape as Black-capped
Petrel). The bill seems small and plover-like, but I wouldn't use bill
shape and size as an ID mark on those two photos.

Figure 6, Fea's Petrel. This is a hand-held bird and clearly shows the
rather large bill of Fea's (like a Wilson's Plover).

Figure 7 and 8.  Zino's Petrel. These birds, on the ground, show a
rounded head and a smaller bill than on the Fea's, somewhat more
reminiscent of a Semipalmated Plover bill in comparison with a Wilson's
Plover bill on Fea's.

Most unfortunate is that Figure 7 and 8 are not of birds held with the
wing outstretched. Do those two birds have the short and rounded wings?
I hope so! But, we simply can't say.

Also of note is Figure 8 in Tove's article. This is an upperside photo
of a bird labelled as "Possible Zino's Petrel". I would say, based on
the 4 Fea's I've seen off NC and the many other photos I've seen of
Fea's, that this is clearly NOT a Fea's, and would be a presumed Zino's,
as the bird in the photo has the short and rounded wing shape shown on
Figure 7 in Tove and Figure 5 in Enticott-Tipling. Note that the mantle
is quite dark, with the outer half of the wings being blackish and the
inner portions being contrastingly grayer. I have no idea if this is a
good field character. I just know that Fea's do not normally show this
pattern. The bill of this bird looks on the small size, but again I
wouldn't want to use that as a mark to help ID this bird.

Yet, despite the clear distinctions in photos, the text in
Enticott-Tipling contain the following remarks:

"Zino and Zino state 'However, despite the considerable difference in
size between the Bugio and Madeira bird, we have found it impossible to
distinguish one from the other at sea'. Intense further study reiterates
this conclusion (F. Zino pers. comm. 1996), and a 1995 British attempt
at identification and separation of the three 'mollis species' [this
includes the Soft-plumaged Petrel] is contradictory and unreliable."

I should also note that the Fea's Petrel is a larger bird in overall
size than is Zino's, being nearly the size of a Black-capped Petrel.
Observers of Fea's off NC note that the size is either about that of
Black-capped, or just a bit smaller. Zino's should be noticeably smaller
in the field than a Black-capped, but this is just pure speculation on
my part and might be useless unless plenty of Black-cappeds were around
for size comparison.

In conclusion, contrary to some comments in the text of Enticott and
Tipling, published photos in that book and in Tove's June 1997 article
in Birding DO show two "phenotypes" of seabirds in the Fea's/Zino's
complex. Type 1 -- Those birds with long and very pointed wings, often
showing a blackish M pattern on the mantle,with bills large to
medium-sized; and Type 2 -- Those birds with relatively short and
rounded wings, with a smaller to medium bill, and whose mantle pattern
MAY be different from that of Fea's. I would consider those birds to be
Zino's Petrels, but I have never seen such birds in the field, and can
only assume this. Birds matching Type 2 have not been reported off NC,
whereas birds matching Type 1 have been documented off NC (and off Nova
Scotia).

With the pelagic season (at least for rare Pterodromas) starting up in
late May, I hope these comments are helpful. I really don't think any
further documentation of Fea's Petrel is necessary, but keep
photographing and taking detailed notes of all Pterodromas that aren't
Black-cappeds! Bermuda Petrels are out there, Herald (Trindade) Petrels
are out there, and maybe we will find a real Zino's before long.

Harry LeGrand
Raleigh, NC
harry.legrand(AT)ncmail.net