ID-FRONTIERS for April 1-8, 2000

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Northern & Loggerhead Shrike ID   Jean Iron    Sun, 2 Apr 2000   8:17am   Racial seperation of Great White Egrets?   Harry Hussey    Sun, 2 Apr 2000   2:00pm   Re: Northern & Loggerhead Shrike ID   Steve Hampton    Mon, 3 Apr 2000   10:06am   Presumed hybrid Eurasian Wigeon x either Am.Wigeon or teal   Ricard Gutierrez    Mon, 3 Apr 2000   1:39pm   Hummingbird ID   Don Crockett    Mon, 3 Apr 2000   3:38pm   flight I.D. of Eared and Horned Grebes   Robert Hughes    Mon, 3 Apr 2000   6:21pm   Re: Hummingbird ID   Don Crockett    Mon, 3 Apr 2000   7:16pm   Re: Presumed hybrid Eurasian Wigeon x either Am.Wigeon or teal   Adriaens, Peter   Tue, 4 Apr 2000   1:29am   humingbird at Beatty's   Matt Heindel    Tue, 4 Apr 2000   5:23am   Re: Northern & Loggerhead Shrike ID   Martin Reid    Tue, 4 Apr 2000   6:18am   Re: flight I.D. of Eared and Horned Grebes (fwd)   ian paulsen    Tue, 4 Apr 2000   10:09am   Re: Hummingbird ID   Don Crockett    Tue, 4 Apr 2000   2:29pm   Re: Presumed hybrid Eurasian Wigeon x either Am.Wigeon or teal   Don Roberson and/or    Tue, 4 Apr 2000   5:43pm   Re: Presumed hybrid Eurasian Wigeon x either Am.Wigeon or teal   Tony Leukering    Tue, 4 Apr 2000   9:33pm   Re: Presumed hybrid Eurasian Wigeon x either Am.Wigeon   Millington/BIS    Wed, 5 Apr 2000   2:01am   The odd Wigeon in NE Spain   Ricard Gutierrez    Wed, 5 Apr 2000   1:43pm   Flight ID of Eared & Horned Grebes.   paullarkin    Wed, 5 Apr 2000   3:20pm   Strange gulls from Texas - again   Martin Reid    Sat, 8 Apr 2000   10:28am

To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'. This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.

[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Northern & Loggerhead Shrike ID
From: Jean Iron <jeaniron(AT)GLOBEDIRECT.COM>
Date: 2 Apr 2000 8:17am

Dear Birders,

On Friday afternoon, Jean Iron and I saw three shrikes on the Carden Alvar
just north of Kirkfield, Ontario in the same area where Loggerhead Shrikes
breed. Two of the shrikes were Northerns and the third we couldn't ID
because it was too far away. Both Northern and Loggerhead Shrikes are
possible in southern Ontario in April. There is currently a noticeable
migration of Northerns returning to the breeding grounds following the big
southward movement last fall and winter.

I caution birders that distinguishing between Loggerhead and Northern
Shrikes at this time of year is extremely difficult, sometimes impossible.
Most field guides are misleading about shrike ID in spring.

Why are many Northern Shrikes misidentied as Loggerheads at this time of
year in southern Ontario? The following information also applies in the
east where both species occur together in April.

1. Northern Shrikes change their behaviour in spring. They act more like
Loggerhreads by perching lower, hunting newly emerging worms, other
invertebrates and frogs.

2. Northerns lose much of their barring below by feather wear by April.
Many Northerns appear to lack barring even at very close range. The lack of
barring on the underparts is inconclusive for either species in spring.

3. The Northern Shrike's bill becomes entirely black in spring. This is a
little known fact. Therefore, a Loggerhead cannot be identified by its all
black bill in spring.

4. Northerns usually have a narrower black mask between the eyes and bill.
However, a few Northerns (and most Loggerhreads) have black on forehead
above the bill, but this is extremely difficult to judge in the field even
at close range.

5. If your shrike has a noticeable and contrasting white rump (seen in
flight) in eastern Ontario, it is almost certainly a Northern. Eastern
Loggerheads usually have grayer rumps, showing much less contrast with the
back and tail. However, Loggerheads in western Canada have whiter rumps
more like a Northern's.

6. Northern's have bigger bills with a longer hook. Loggerheads have
stubbier bills with a smaller hook. With practice it is possible to ID some
birds by bill characters, but many lone birds are tricky and it is not
unusual to see a shrike whose bill appears intermediate.

I recommend the paper by the 1955 paper by D.A. Zimmerman. "Notes on shrike
identification and comparative behavior of shrikes in winter" in Wilson
Bulletin 67(3):200-208. Also, Michael King and I did an article on Shrike
ID in February 1999 OFO News 17 (1):6-7 with illustrations by Michael King.
If you'd like a copy of our OFO article, please reply with your full name
and postal address and I'll send it to you.

Ron Pittaway

Jean Iron
President, Ontario Field Ornithologists
9 Lichen Place
Toronto, Ontario M3A 1X3
Canada
Phone: 416-445-9297
jeaniron(AT)globedirect.com
Web Page: www.interlog.com/~ofo


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Racial seperation of Great White Egrets?
From: Harry Hussey <hhussey3(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 2 Apr 2000 2:00pm

Hello,
  I am trying to find out the characters(if any!) that
seperate the Eurasian and American races of Great
White Egret(Egretta/Ardea/Casmerodious alba).
I went up to see a bird in Co.Clare yesterday,and it
had a black bill,yellow-orange tibia and black tarsi.
It was obviously in breeding plumage,but can its
origin be determined(more likely European,due to an
ongoing significant increase and westward spread)?
                     Yours in anticipation,
                 Harry Hussey,Cork,Republic of Ireland

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Northern & Loggerhead Shrike ID
From: Steve Hampton <SHAMPTON(AT)OSPR.DFG.CA.GOV>
Date: 3 Apr 2000 10:06am

I'd like to add that, in California, many Loggerheads appear to have white
rumps, at least all around the sides of the rump.

One good long-distance field mark is the upperpart/underpart contrast.  I've
found Northerns stand out due to their paler back and top of head.  From a
distance, they seem more like a Mockingbird in overall upperpart/underpart
contrast.  Loggerhead's have much darker gray tones above, so that their back
and cap contrast much more strongly with the underparts.  This is further
accentuated by the thick mask.

Steve Hampton, Ph.D.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Resource Economist
Office of Spill Prevention and Response
California Dept of Fish and Game
PO Box 944209
Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
-----------------------------------
(916) 323-4724 phone
(916) 324-8829 fax

>>> Jean Iron <jeaniron(AT)GLOBEDIRECT.COM> 04/02/00 09:17AM >>>
Dear Birders,

On Friday afternoon, Jean Iron and I saw three shrikes on the Carden Alvar
just north of Kirkfield, Ontario in the same area where Loggerhead Shrikes
breed. Two of the shrikes were Northerns and the third we couldn't ID
because it was too far away. Both Northern and Loggerhead Shrikes are
possible in southern Ontario in April. There is currently a noticeable
migration of Northerns returning to the breeding grounds following the big
southward movement last fall and winter.

I caution birders that distinguishing between Loggerhead and Northern
Shrikes at this time of year is extremely difficult, sometimes impossible.
Most field guides are misleading about shrike ID in spring.

Why are many Northern Shrikes misidentied as Loggerheads at this time of
year in southern Ontario? The following information also applies in the
east where both species occur together in April.

1. Northern Shrikes change their behaviour in spring. They act more like
Loggerhreads by perching lower, hunting newly emerging worms, other
invertebrates and frogs.

2. Northerns lose much of their barring below by feather wear by April.
Many Northerns appear to lack barring even at very close range. The lack of
barring on the underparts is inconclusive for either species in spring.

3. The Northern Shrike's bill becomes entirely black in spring. This is a
little known fact. Therefore, a Loggerhead cannot be identified by its all
black bill in spring.

4. Northerns usually have a narrower black mask between the eyes and bill.
However, a few Northerns (and most Loggerhreads) have black on forehead
above the bill, but this is extremely difficult to judge in the field even
at close range.

5. If your shrike has a noticeable and contrasting white rump (seen in
flight) in eastern Ontario, it is almost certainly a Northern. Eastern
Loggerheads usually have grayer rumps, showing much less contrast with the
back and tail. However, Loggerheads in western Canada have whiter rumps
more like a Northern's.

6. Northern's have bigger bills with a longer hook. Loggerheads have
stubbier bills with a smaller hook. With practice it is possible to ID some
birds by bill characters, but many lone birds are tricky and it is not
unusual to see a shrike whose bill appears intermediate.

I recommend the paper by the 1955 paper by D.A. Zimmerman. "Notes on shrike
identification and comparative behavior of shrikes in winter" in Wilson
Bulletin 67(3):200-208. Also, Michael King and I did an article on Shrike
ID in February 1999 OFO News 17 (1):6-7 with illustrations by Michael King.
If you'd like a copy of our OFO article, please reply with your full name
and postal address and I'll send it to you.

Ron Pittaway

Jean Iron
President, Ontario Field Ornithologists
9 Lichen Place
Toronto, Ontario M3A 1X3
Canada
Phone: 416-445-9297
jeaniron(AT)globedirect.com
Web Page: www.interlog.com/~ofo


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Presumed hybrid Eurasian Wigeon x either
         Am.Wigeon or teal
From: Ricard Gutierrez <GUTARB(AT)santandersupernet.com>
Date: 3 Apr 2000 1:39pm

Dear colleagues:
This winter we've had a case of a presumed hybrid male Eurasian Wigeon (Anas
penelope) x either American Wigeon (Anas americana) or Common Teal (Anas
crecca). Initially broadcasted as A.penelope x crecca, later the observed
started to think about the americana option. The bird was basically like a
penelope but showed a green patch in the face which seemed to demonstrate
hybrid origin. This individual, found by a local birder, was photographed
and now the images are in the Llobregat Delta Web Page
(http://www.gencat.es/mediamb/rndelta , see the shortcut to the hybrid page
under the What's new section). In favour of crecca is the fact that
A.americana is a vagrant here and therefore opportunities of hybridization
(if coming from the wild, -the bird behaved wild-) have to be low. However,
the book from Gillham features an hybrid with crecca that shows the pale
brown line under the green area in the face and the individual does look
very similar to a described A.penelope x americana "version". What about the
extent of the pale crown?.
I would appreciate any suggestion on this bird.
Thank you very much in advance

Ricard Gutierrez
CR/SEO
Llobregat Delta Nature Reserves Director
3.4.2000


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Hummingbird ID
From: Don Crockett <crockett(AT)GREATBLUE.COM>
Date: 3 Apr 2000 3:38pm

I was reviewing some video footage I shot on July 22, 1999
at Beatty's B&B in Miller Canyon in the Huachucha's in
Hereford, Arizona and came across a hummingbird I'm unsure
of the ID on (I'm ignoring most of the female footage for
the time being :) ).  I'm a novice on hummer ID.

I have 3 stills available on the web at:

     http://www.virtualbirder.com/vbirder/rba/behu

These images were shot on a medium-overcast day shortly after
a light shower with a miniDV camcorder with a telephoto lens.

Size-wise the bird was smaller than a Magnificent or Blue-throated
but larger than a Rufous or Black-chinned (I based size on comparison
of stills of profile posture at same feeder).  It appears to have an
iridescent green crown, nape, and upper wing coverts;  iridescent blue
or blue-green throat; dark wings showing little if any color;
chestnut lower back, rump and tail; gray belly; mixed gray and
green chest.  It has a bright white dot behind eye and bright white
"legs".  Dark, slightly down-curved bill.

I'm thinking that it is a female Berylline.  It doesn't show
red on the lower mandible but I have a book with photos of a male
that similarly doesn't show red, it's just the base on the lower
that is supposed to be red so it's easy for that to be hidden.
The book photos show the male having bright white "legs".  All the
book photos I have show the males with head plumage "lit up" so I don't
have anything to compare the unlit plumage of the stills with.  The
depiction in Nat Geo looks pretty similar both in color and "scaly"
appearance of head and throat.  The size seems right based on
Nat Geo's numbers (4.25 inches).  No sign of chestnut on the wings.
Nothing I've seen mentions or shows white behind the eye.

Comments?

                                                  Don

P.S.  What do people recommend for hummingbird reference books?

Don Crockett
The Virtual Birder(R)
http://www.virtualbirder.com
A 2 Z 4 Birders(sm): The Store
http://store.yahoo.com/a2z4birders
mailto:crockett(AT)greatblue.com
Brookline, Massachusetts


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: flight I.D. of Eared and Horned Grebes
From: Robert Hughes <RJaebob(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 3 Apr 2000 6:21pm

Greetings,

I am new to this forum and have a request for information concerning the
flight identification of Eared and Horned Grebes, specifically the upperwing
pattern of these two species. In Chicago, where I live, Horned Grebes are
common migrants; Eared Grebes are rarer though just about annual and a
potential source of confusion, esp. flying birds. Horned Grebes in flight
display the neatly squared-off white rectangle on the secondaries. The white
"thumbprint" on the leading edge of the wing, supposedly diagnostic, can be
hard to see.

I have never knowingly seen an Eared Grebe in flight and  the only pictoral
reference of an Eared Grebe wing is Lars Jonssons' Birds of Europe. He shows
the white of the secondaries crossing over to include the inner 3 or 4
primaries, somewhat analogous to the same pattern on a Greater Scaup. Some
time ago, I checked skins of these two species at the Field Museum;
unfortunately the wings on these specimens could not be opened- trying to do
so would have damaged them.  Have any other birders seen this on a live bird(
or skin)? Is this feature reliable for separating these two species in
flight? Are there any photographs of this mark? Any info. would be
appreciated.

Robert Hughes
Chicago
rjaebob(AT)aol.com


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Hummingbird ID
From: Don Crockett <crockett(AT)GREATBLUE.COM>
Date: 3 Apr 2000 7:16pm

I should have mentioned that while I was at Beatty's
people had been reporting a hybrid Berylline/? x Magnificent/?.
Wishful thinking on my part that I had a pure Berylline
plus hesitating on going the hybrid route.  A couple people
have sent me personal replies that they think this is the
hybrid.  Lineage suggestions from these replies include
Magnificent, Blue-throated, Berylline, & Broad-billed.
It'd be interesting to hear what people think about the
hybrid possibilities.

If anyone has URLs of images of the hybrid at Beatty's that
would also be interesting.

                                              Don

Don Crockett
The Virtual Birder(R)
http://www.virtualbirder.com
A 2 Z 4 Birders(sm): The Store
http://store.yahoo.com/a2z4birders
mailto:crockett(AT)greatblue.com
Brookline, Massachusetts


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Presumed hybrid Eurasian Wigeon x either
         Am.Wigeon or teal
From: "Adriaens, Peter" <padriaens(AT)C2000.BE>
Date: 4 Apr 2000 1:29am

Hi Ricard,

I am not too sure on this one, since the photographs are rather distinct and
out-of-focus, but the bird looks more Wigeon-like than a hybrid. A green
patch on the sides of the head is certainly still within the variation in
male European Wigeon. Shape and colour of the forehead patch are hard to
assess in the photographs.

I would expect a F1 hybrid to show more characters of the other parent as
well, such as a pinkish colour in the flanks (in Wigeon x American Wigeon).

Best regards,

Peter Adriaens
Belgium

==>-----Original Message-----
==>From: Ricard Gutierrez [mailto:GUTARB(AT)santandersupernet.com]
==>Sent: maandag 3 april 2000 22:30
==>To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
==>Subject: [BIRDWG01] Presumed hybrid Eurasian Wigeon x either
==>Am.Wigeon
==>or teal
==>
==>
==>Dear colleagues:
==>This winter we've had a case of a presumed hybrid male
==>Eurasian Wigeon (Anas
==>penelope) x either American Wigeon (Anas americana) or
==>Common Teal (Anas
==>crecca). Initially broadcasted as A.penelope x crecca, later
==>the observed
==>started to think about the americana option. The bird was
==>basically like a
==>penelope but showed a green patch in the face which seemed
==>to demonstrate
==>hybrid origin. This individual, found by a local birder, was
==>photographed
==>and now the images are in the Llobregat Delta Web Page
==>(http://www.gencat.es/mediamb/rndelta , see the shortcut to
==>the hybrid page
==>under the What's new section). In favour of crecca is the fact that
==>A.americana is a vagrant here and therefore opportunities of
==>hybridization
==>(if coming from the wild, -the bird behaved wild-) have to
==>be low. However,
==>the book from Gillham features an hybrid with crecca that
==>shows the pale
==>brown line under the green area in the face and the
==>individual does look
==>very similar to a described A.penelope x americana
==>"version". What about the
==>extent of the pale crown?.
==>I would appreciate any suggestion on this bird.
==>Thank you very much in advance
==>
==>Ricard Gutierrez
==>CR/SEO
==>Llobregat Delta Nature Reserves Director
==>3.4.2000
==>


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: humingbird at Beatty's
From: Matt Heindel <MTHEINDEL(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 4 Apr 2000 5:23am

I was able to photograph this bird and I believe it will be featured on an
upcoming back cover of Western Birds. I have not scanned it so can't send anyone
 to a URL, but a subscription to WB isn't a bad idea!
I do feel the bird is most likely a Magnificent X Berylline but of course, with
many such IDs, firm opinions should be left for the less timid. I will save my
discussion for the piece in WB. I have not checked lately (and do not have my
web addresses on this computer) but Gary Rosenberg's web page (which includes
the AZ Bird Committee) might have a picture of this beast. Best,
Matt Heindel
mtheindel(AT)aol.com
Irvine/San Antonio


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Northern & Loggerhead Shrike ID
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 4 Apr 2000 6:18am

Dear all,
Following-on from Steve Hampton's comments, you may want to look at  a
Texas Loggerhead photo that shows the extensive white rump found on SW birds:
http://members.tripod.com/~tbrc/shrike.htm
- then scroll to the bottom bird
Thanks,
Martin
Martin Reid
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com  or  http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: flight I.D. of Eared and Horned Grebes (fwd)
From: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)LINKNET.KITSAP.LIB.WA.US>
Date: 4 Apr 2000 10:09am

HI Frontiers:
 See below.
Sincerely

Ian "Birdbooker" Paulsen
Bainbridge Is., WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
"Rallidae all the way"

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 08:45:55 -0700
From: Dennis Paulson <dpaulson(AT)ups.edu>
To: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)krl.org>
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] flight I.D. of Eared and Horned Grebes (fwd)

Ian, you can send this in response, if you would.

We have large series of wings from both species.  Both of them vary in the
amount of white on the secondaries (more or less extensive), but there are
no differences between the species that I can see.  One difference is that
Eared has the innermost (1-3) primaries with a narrow white tip, which
Horned seems to lack.  Whether that could be seen in flight is debatable,
but perhaps it might be.  That's the only difference I can see.  The
difference described from Birds of Europe certainly doesn't pertain to
North American birds.

Dennis

>HI Dennis:
>  Maybe you can help this guy out?
>Sincerely
>
>Ian "Birdbooker" Paulsen
>Bainbridge Is., WA, USA
>ipaulsen(AT)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
>"Rallidae all the way"
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 21:19:56 EDT
>From: Robert Hughes <RJaebob(AT)AOL.COM>
>To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>Subject: [BIRDWG01] flight I.D. of Eared and Horned Grebes
>
>Greetings,
>
>
>
>I am new to this forum and have a request for information concerning the
>flight identification of Eared and Horned Grebes, specifically the upperwing
>pattern of these two species. In Chicago, where I live, Horned Grebes are
>common migrants; Eared Grebes are rarer though just about annual and a
>potential source of confusion, esp. flying birds. Horned Grebes in flight
>display the neatly squared-off white rectangle on the secondaries. The white
>"thumbprint" on the leading edge of the wing, supposedly diagnostic, can be
>hard to see.
>
>I have never knowingly seen an Eared Grebe in flight and  the only pictoral
>reference of an Eared Grebe wing is Lars Jonssons' Birds of Europe. He shows
>the white of the secondaries crossing over to include the inner 3 or 4
>primaries, somewhat analogous to the same pattern on a Greater Scaup. Some
>time ago, I checked skins of these two species at the Field Museum;
>unfortunately the wings on these specimens could not be opened- trying to do
>so would have damaged them.  Have any other birders seen this on a live bird(
>or skin)? Is this feature reliable for separating these two species in
>flight? Are there any photographs of this mark? Any info. would be
>appreciated.
>
>Robert Hughes
>Chicago
>rjaebob(AT)aol.com

Dennis Paulson, Director                           phone 253-879-3798
Slater Museum of Natural History                 fax 253-879-3352
University of Puget Sound                       e-mail dpaulson(AT)ups.edu
Tacoma, WA 98416
http://www.ups.edu/biology/museum/museum.html


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Hummingbird ID
From: Don Crockett <crockett(AT)GREATBLUE.COM>
Date: 4 Apr 2000 2:29pm

Brian E. Small sent me a couple scans of 35mm slides he took
of "Beatty's hybrid" last summer and I've added them to the
web page with my images:

    http://www.virtualbirder.com/vbirder/rba/behu

I would say that this is the same bird that I videotaped.

Brian's images were taken with flash and show iridescence
that mine were missing.  One image, a frontal image shot
from below, shows some green iridescence? on the crown and
blue-green/purple iridescence on the throat down through the
chest, the center of the chest shows a whitish/gray patch,
and then there is some green iridescence right below the
patch and more out toward the flanks.  Gray belly and
undertail coverts.  Bill is black and there is a white
post-ocular spot.  The other shot is from behind and shows
green on the shoulders and upper wing coverts.  Rest of the wings
are black, other than what appears to possibly be some reddish
color at the base of the secondaries???   Lower back, rump, and
tail show a mixture of black and a reddish color.

Thanks to Brian for sharing his images.

I found Gary Rosenberg's web page but couldn't find any
additional images there.  The link to the AZ Bird Committee
page was broken so that may explain why.

                                             Don

Don Crockett
The Virtual Birder(R)
http://www.virtualbirder.com
A 2 Z 4 Birders(sm): The Store
http://store.yahoo.com/a2z4birders
mailto:crockett(AT)greatblue.com
Brookline, Massachusetts


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Presumed hybrid Eurasian Wigeon x either
         Am.Wigeon or teal
From: Don Roberson and/or Rita Carratello <creagrus(AT)MONTEREYBAY.COM>
Date: 4 Apr 2000 5:43pm

I recently looked at specimens at Mus. Vert. Zool., Berkeley, CA, regarding
hybrid wigeon vs. variation in A. penelope. I agree with Peter Adriaens that
the fuzzy photos do not seem to show an obvious hybrid; that a green eyestripe
is well within the range of penelope; and that those specimens labelled as
hybrids show many additional characters of introgression, including mixture of
gray & pink in flanks and a more obvious intermediate facial pattern.

Based on a very small sample size, the presence of a green patch around the
eyes/auriculars was more common in eastern Siberian/Japan/Korea Eur. Wigeons
than the very few specimens at MVZ from Europe. It is a reasonably common
feature on otherwise "pure" Eur. Wigeon seen here in California. I assume that
such birds are not hybrids unless they show some other intergrade characters.

Don Roberson
Pacific Grove CA


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Presumed hybrid Eurasian Wigeon x either
         Am.Wigeon or teal
From: Tony Leukering <GreatGrayO(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 4 Apr 2000 9:33pm

Hi all:

Not to be a "me-too"er, but when I was living in Manhattan, I checked the
collection at the American Museum of Nat. Hist. on a regular basis.  One of
the things I looked at was head pattern in Eurasian Wigeon, as I had seen a
bird at Jamaica Bay that had an obvious green patch behind the eye.  I didn't
compare Asian to European birds, but I recall that a large, though minority,
percentage of males had slight to extensive green patches behind the eyes.

So, though I haven't looked at these pix, I agree with Don and Peter that
green on the head does not, in and of itself, indicate introgression of
American Wigeon genes.

Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Presumed hybrid Eurasian Wigeon x either
         Am.Wigeon
From: Millington/BIS <sales(AT)birdingworld.co.uk>
Date: 5 Apr 2000 2:01am

Hi

Don Roberson wrote:
>>>"..... Based on a very small sample size, the presence of a green patch
around the
eyes/auriculars was more common in eastern Siberian/Japan/Korea Eur. Wigeons
than the very few specimens at MVZ from Europe. It is a reasonably common
feature on otherwise "pure" Eur. Wigeon seen here in California. I assume
that
such birds are not hybrids unless they show some other intergrade
characters. "<<<

Here in Norfolk, UK, we see thousands of Euro Wigeon all winter and a bird
showing this type of green patch would stand out from the crowd and attract
interest. The occasional birds can indeed show something approaching this
pattern, but are very uncommon, so perhaps they come from further east in
Asia than the majority of our wintering population?

Apart from the possibility of XAmerican Wigeon hybrids, we also have to
contend with the odd XChiloe Wigeon hybrid. Escaped drake Chiloe Wigeons
occasionally team up with the Euro Wigeon (in fact there's one here at Cley
currently) and their offspring can show (amongst other things) green on the
head, of course.

That said, the Spanish bird may well be a pure Euro Wigeon but, in
appearance, certainly a great oddity in European terms...

Richard Millington
Cley, England

sales(AT)birdingworld.co.uk
(Birding World, Books for Birders & Birdline)
Bird Information Service, Stonerunner, Coast Road,
Cley next the Sea, Holt, Norfolk, NR25 7RZ, UK
(VAT Reg 676 8589 56)
Tel. 44 (0) 1263 741139  Fax. 741173
Website www.birdingworld.co.uk


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: The odd Wigeon in NE Spain
From: Ricard Gutierrez <GUTARB(AT)santandersupernet.com>
Date: 5 Apr 2000 1:43pm

Dear colleagues:

Thank you all for the comments on the odd Wigeon recorded in Molins de Rei,
NE Spain. Almost all opinions (but a few) from not only this list but others
think this bird is within the variation of A.penelope, based on green mask
presence. Lacking (for the moment) a complete description, all opinions are
very worthy to further avaluate this record as our wintering population of
penelope in NE Spain is enough reduced not to pay attention to the presumed
low percentage of birds showing this character (in 21 years we had never
seen something similar).
Anyway, the bird is interesting indeed, as the observer claims that the
central crown stripe was not yellowish but white (perhaps except a small
part closest to the bill,...). Either if a variation within penelope or a
bird with some genes of others (let's wait to have all the first-hand
information to close the case), this example clearly states both the
interest of lists such as ours and the exchange of information that it makes
possible. Thank you everyone for having a look and giving your opinion.

Ricard Gutierrez
RN Delta del Llobregat
www.gencat.es/mediamb/rndelta


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Flight ID of Eared & Horned Grebes.
From: paullarkin <paullarkin(AT)PGEN.NET>
Date: 5 Apr 2000 3:20pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

What Ho!
Just a few thoughts. I too have found the wing pattern all but useless =
except in ideal conditions particularly if the bird is flying away frim =
you.. However the same features that separate birds in non breeding =
plumage when on the water can be useful in flight.
1. The more clean cut black and white head and neck pattern of horned =
(but beware birds in transitional plumage which look dusky round the =
neck).
2. The more wedge shaped head of Horned. This is accentuated by the =
demarcation between black and white.

All this of course can vary with light conditions.

In breeding plumage even the ruddy neck of Horned may not be apparent, =
it can look black, but the ear tufts are usually more conspicuous and =
less floppy than Eared i.e.much more dart shaped. At close range the =
head and bill shape may be useful.

There is a new guide in Europe published by Collins. In that it states =
that, with reference to Horned, "migrants have a habit raising their =
head high (at times feet too) in flight for a brief moment or longer". I =
have not tested this but a similar observation about Red -throated Diver =
(Loon) by the same author does seem to be the case and is very useful in =
the field.

n.b this is from a UK perspective.
Cheers
Paul=20

----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Strange gulls from Texas - again
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 8 Apr 2000 10:28am

Dear all,
A recent visit to the Texas coast produced a number of unusual gulls; also
Detlef Gruber and Bernie Zonfrillo have contributed more photos of Old
World gulls; please take a look via:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullinx.htm
- and either send your comments to me directly, or share them with the
group if you feel it is of interest.
Thanks,
Martin
Martin Reid
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com  or  http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa