ID-FRONTIERS for July 23-31, 2000

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   an unusual Least Sandpiper   Martin Reid    Sun, 23 Jul 2000   8:40am   Re: an unusual Least Sandpiper   Mike Patterson    Sun, 23 Jul 2000   9:28am   Pseudo Long-toeds   Julian Hough    Sun, 23 Jul 2000   8:07pm   Mystery Texas shorebird   DJLauten and KACaste   Mon, 24 Jul 2000   3:01pm   more unusual Sandpipers, to say the Least.....   Martin Reid    Wed, 26 Jul 2000   8:50pm   Re: more unusual Sandpipers, to say the Least.....   Don Roberson and/or    Wed, 26 Jul 2000   10:44pm   http://www.surfbirds.com   Martin Birch    Thu, 27 Jul 2000   10:35am   Mongolian Gull   Brian Small    Mon, 31 Jul 2000   11:17am   Re: Mongolian Gull   William Hull    Mon, 31 Jul 2000   11:46am   Re: Mongolian Gull   Dave Malachy    Mon, 31 Jul 2000   12:23pm

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Subject: an unusual Least Sandpiper
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 23 Jul 2000 8:40am

Dear all,
For a change, it's not a gull.....
http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa/lesa1.html
- of course at the current time of year (July), adults are molting and can
have all kinds of weird patterns on the head, but for a late Spring bird
this individual introduces a loud note of caution when considering a
Long-toed Stint.
As always I look forward to comments about this bird on ID-Fronters.
Good Birding,
Martin

Martin Reid
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com  or  http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa


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Subject: Re: an unusual Least Sandpiper
From: Mike Patterson <celata(AT)pacifier.com>
Date: 23 Jul 2000 9:28am

Ah, fall migration...
The time when a youngers thoughts turn to speculation on
rare eurasian vagrants...

I see Long-toed Stint candidates annually along the north
coast of Oregon and have never been personally satisfied
enough with the fieldmarks to count one.  I have seen
Least Sandpipers with all the alledged characters of a
Long-toed at one time or another including this one seen
last migration....

Please set your monitor to maximum brightness....
http://columbia-pacific.interrain.org/ahscience/shore_photo/ltst/ltst.html

Martin Reid wrote:
>
> Dear all,
> For a change, it's not a gull.....
> http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa/lesa1.html
> - of course at the current time of year (July), adults are molting and can
> have all kinds of weird patterns on the head, but for a late Spring bird
> this individual introduces a loud note of caution when considering a
> Long-toed Stint.
> As always I look forward to comments about this bird on ID-Fronters.
> Good Birding,
> Martin
>
> Martin Reid
> upupa(AT)airmail.net
> http://www.martinreid.com  or  http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa

--
Mike Patterson               Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo,
Astoria, OR                  it is not enough to be persecuted
celata(AT)pacifier.com            by an unkind establishment,
                             you must also be right.
                                                     ---Robert Park
http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html


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Subject: Pseudo Long-toeds
From: Julian Hough <Jrhough1(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 23 Jul 2000 8:07pm

Mike Patterson's images of the strange calidrid are interesting.

While unusual in general color and head pattern, it appears and 'feels' like
a Least Sandpiper, as Mike obviously deduced. The rear ear-covert 'splodge',
leg color, primary projection and scalloped edges to the greater coverts are
good pointers to the id. as a Least.

From the images,  I think it is interesting that the bird has an appearance
equally suggestive of a juv. Little Stint; split supercilium, (which extends
laterally across the bridge of the bill base), pale nape, contrasting
upperparts 'tramlines' and buffy-fringed upperpart feathers. Of course, the
upperpart pattern, the pale legs and short primary projection exclude this
species.

An interesting individual..

Julian Hough


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Subject: Mystery Texas shorebird
From: DJLauten and KACastelein <birdsong(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 24 Jul 2000 3:01pm

Concerning the additional photos of the mystery Dunlin/Curlew Sandpiper:

First, concerning figure 3 (head on shot), the supercilium appears to meet
above the bill, and the brown does not appear to split the supercilium.  Is
this a character of only CUSA, or can both species show this feature?

Second, note how warm brown the feathers appear (at least on my screen) in
figure 1 compared to the other photos.  Can CUSA be this warm brown (or do
we have lighting tricks playing here?)?

Third, the wingtip projection in some of these photos is admittedly fairly
long.

Dave Lauten
Bandon, OR
birdsong(AT)harborside.com


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Subject: more unusual Sandpipers, to say the Least.....
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 26 Jul 2000 8:50pm

Dear all,
Not much response to the Spring adult LESA with supercilia separated above
the bill - http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa/lesa1.html - so how about a juv
LESA with half-pale lores - http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa/lesa2.html and
one with a classic LTST face pattern -
http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa/lesa1.html
I look forward to comments on ID-Frontiers,
Martin
Martin Reid
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com  or  http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa


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Subject: Re: more unusual Sandpipers, to say the
         Least.....
From: Don Roberson and/or Rita Carratello <creagrus(AT)MONTEREYBAY.COM>
Date: 26 Jul 2000 10:44pm

Regarding Least vs. Long-toed Stint, I'm not sure what Martin means by a
"classic" Long-toed Stint facial pattern. It is now fairly well known that
some small percentage of Leasts in alternate and in juv. plumage may have dark
forecrowns that "separate" the pale supercilia. To me, the "classic" mark is
the strong backwards "C" when that dark forecrown heavily connects with and
curls back into the dark post-ocular stripe. His spring Texas bird does
approach that pattern.

However, I have used a method for the last 15 years to evaluate photos of
alleged "Long-toed Stints" and it works reasonably well, including on these
shots. Without digging out the books and citing all the metromorphics, suffice
it to say that the bills (measured from base of bill to tip along the culmen)
of Least and Long-toed are approximately the same, and that on Least Sandpiper
this length is approximately the same as the length of the tarsus and
approximately the same as the middle toe. On Long-toed, both the tarsus and
the middle toe are significantly longer than the bill. Thus on a decent shot
of a mystery bird, one can rather easy compare the length of the bill to
either the tarsus or middle toe, or better, both. On the Texas bird, for
example, using just a space between my index finger and thumb, I find that the
tarsus and the middle toe are about the same length as the bill, or even a tad
shorter. Ergo, a Least. On all good shots of Long-toed Stint that I have
reviewed, the tarsus and/or middle toe is obviously longer than the bill
length.

Like any difficult i.d. pair, perhaps it is best to rely on a wide variety of
characters, but this structural one sure works quite well.

Cheers,
Don Roberson
Pacific Grove CA


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Subject: http://www.surfbirds.com
From: Martin Birch <martinb(AT)ACTIONAID.ORG.UK>
Date: 27 Jul 2000 10:35am

if you haven't finished browsing the July edition of surfbirds.com then don't
delay the August edition is only days away and will amongst other features
include yet another gull ID !


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Subject: Mongolian Gull
From: Brian Small <BrianJSmall(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 31 Jul 2000 11:17am

My first contact is a request. Does anyone have any images of first-summer or
second-winter Mongolian Gull Larus (cachinnans) mongolicus?

Brian Small


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Subject: Re: Mongolian Gull
From: William Hull <william.hull(AT)SDRC.COM>
Date: 31 Jul 2000 11:46am

Check out http://www15.freeweb.ne.jp/animal/larus/gullidentifi_.htm

It is in Japanese but there are English and scientific names.  There are
Mongolian Gull photos there.

Bill
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

Brian Small wrote:
>
> My first contact is a request. Does anyone have any images of first-summer or
> second-winter Mongolian Gull Larus (cachinnans) mongolicus?
>
> Brian Small


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Subject: Re: Mongolian Gull
From: Dave Malachy <dm(AT)SPEAKEASY.ORG>
Date: 31 Jul 2000 12:23pm

A better question for me is "where are the stuffed mounts"?
Audubon, his bioethos for better or for worse, did pioneer
the idea of a historical record.

If not, pics and descrips will obviously do.

> Check out http://www15.freeweb.ne.jp/animal/larus/gullidentifi_.htm
>
> It is in Japanese but there are English and scientific names.  There are
> Mongolian Gull photos there.
>
> Bill
> Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
>
> Brian Small wrote:
> >
> > My first contact is a request. Does anyone have any images of first-summer
or
> > second-winter Mongolian Gull Larus (cachinnans) mongolicus?
> >
> > Brian Small
>