ID-FRONTIERS for August 13-19, 2000

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   QRY: Behavior of Ringed Plover ..C. hiaticula..   James H. Barton   Sun, 13 Aug 2000   6:23pm   Re: QRY: Behavior of Ringed Plover ..C. hiaticula..   norman van swelm    Mon, 14 Aug 2000   1:10am   Re: QRY: Behavior of Ringed Plover ..C. hiaticula..   Bob Abrams    Mon, 14 Aug 2000   6:12am   Re: QRY: Behavior of Ringed Plover ..C. hiaticula..   norman van swelm    Mon, 14 Aug 2000   3:25pm   Re: QRY: Behavior of Ringed Plover ..C. hiaticula..   James H. Barton   Mon, 14 Aug 2000   6:21pm   Re: QRY: Behavior of Ringed Plover ..C. hiaticula..   norman van swelm    Tue, 15 Aug 2000   4:31am   Re: Behavior of Ringed Plover ..C. hiaticula..   James H. Barton   Tue, 15 Aug 2000   11:49am   [Fwd: [UKBN} BOU Splits]   James H. Barton   Wed, 16 Aug 2000   10:17am   RFH - Poss. Finnish-banded fuscus in Bahrain   Martin Reid    Thu, 17 Aug 2000   8:31am   Re: [Fwd: [UKBN} BOU Splits]   Graham Etherington    Thu, 17 Aug 2000   10:43am   Re: BOU Splits   Bill or Sue Smith    Thu, 17 Aug 2000   12:08pm   info on Yellow-faced Grassquit subspecies?   Katrina Knight    Thu, 17 Aug 2000   12:38pm   BOU splits -- followup   Bill or Sue Smith    Fri, 18 Aug 2000   10:20am   gull identification website moved to new location   Steve Hampton    Fri, 18 Aug 2000   1:38pm   Re: BOU Splits   Martin Reid    Sat, 19 Aug 2000   6:15am   RE BOU Splits and GW Teal   Martin Reid    Sat, 19 Aug 2000   8:53am

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Subject: QRY: Behavior of Ringed Plover ..C. hiaticula..
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 13 Aug 2000 6:23pm

    Friends, two days ago on North Monomoy, off Chatham, Massachusetts,
I studied at length a ..Charadrius.. plover presenting most of the
wanted field marks observable visually to propose an ID as Ringed Plover
..C. hiaticula, and, more importantly, I clearly heard a distinctive
call for more than 15 minutes, and observed the bird calling.

    The bird had adopted an vertically upright position quite different
from the numerous nearby Semi-palmated Plover ..C. semipalmatus.. and
appeared quite agitated;   and, most of the time while it was calling,
it bobbed its head directly up and down, in the manner of several
species of waterfowl when engaged in courting behavior.

    In  more than 30 years of birding in Massachusetts, I have never
seen a Semi Plover take such a posture or exhibit such head-bobbing
behavior.  Your comments are respectfully requested.

    Yours,

    Jim Barton
    redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
    Cambridge, MA


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Subject: Re: QRY: Behavior of Ringed Plover ..C.
         hiaticula..
From: norman van swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 14 Aug 2000 1:10am

>    In  more than 30 years of birding in Massachusetts, I have never
>seen a Semi Plover take such a posture or exhibit such head-bobbing
>behavior.  Your comments are respectfully requested.
Jim, go back to the bird as it may have chicks. I banded two Ringed Plover
chicks last week and their parents did just that.
Norman


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Subject: Re: QRY: Behavior of Ringed Plover ..C.
         hiaticula..
From: Bob Abrams <Icepeep(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 14 Aug 2000 6:12am

In a message dated 08/14/2000 04:45:23 Eastern Daylight Time,
Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL writes:

<< Jim, go back to the bird as it may have chicks. I banded two Ringed Plover
 chicks last week and their parents did just that.
 Norman >>

Good luck Jim


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Subject: Re: QRY: Behavior of Ringed Plover ..C.
         hiaticula..
From: norman van swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 14 Aug 2000 3:25pm

>In a message dated 08/14/2000 04:45:23 Eastern Daylight Time,
>Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL writes:
><< Jim, go back to the bird as it may have chicks. I banded two Ringed
Plover
> chicks last week and their parents did just that.
>>
Yeah, yeah, I can see you have trouble with my shorthand. I wrote this
quickly while having breakfast, talking to a friend and writing this message
at the same time! I will spell it out for you: My adult Ringed Plovers
behaved in the same agitated way as yours. It turned out they had two
chicks. I banded, in proper English ringed (!) the chicks. As Ringed Plovers
on migration call only occasionally while disturbed breeding birds do it all
the time, I suggest you return to the plover as you may be dealing with the
first breeding of Ringed Plover in the USA!
Good luck again, Norman


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Subject: Re: QRY: Behavior of Ringed Plover ..C.
         hiaticula..
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 14 Aug 2000 6:21pm

    Norman, you are serious, I gather.  I may tell you that some others people
also appear to be serious.  But may I attempt to dampen your and their
enthusiasm by saying that,  for the moment, at least, I'm reading the Aug. 12
bird as a non-breeding adult because its bill appeared largely dark?  So what
was it doing in exhibiting the behavior of breeding birds?  Maybe it was
practicing for next year?

    Assuming that I may have failed to dampen your enthusiasm, let me ask you
just where you banded the breeding pair of Ringed Plovers, and to describe the
habitat.  North Monomoy is a sandy barrier island, much of which is roped off
the the US Fish and Wildlife Service to protect nesting and staging birds.  Aug
12 was well within a protected area, on the muddy slope of a small, grassy
hummock in an extensive flat where birds roost at high tide.   In my judgment,
the hummock would offer little  protection against periodic very high tides.
In
addition, the weather on Cape Cod generally has been very rainy.  Such weather
washed out the first known attempted U.S. nesting by Black-headed Gull some
years ago, on North Monomoy.

    Yours,

    Jim Barton
    redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
    Cambridge, MA

norman van swelm wrote:

> >In a message dated 08/14/2000 04:45:23 Eastern Daylight Time,
> >Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL writes:
> ><< Jim, go back to the bird as it may have chicks. I banded two Ringed
> Plover
> > chicks last week and their parents did just that.
> >>
> Yeah, yeah, I can see you have trouble with my shorthand. I wrote this
> quickly while having breakfast, talking to a friend and writing this message
> at the same time! I will spell it out for you: My adult Ringed Plovers
> behaved in the same agitated way as yours. It turned out they had two
> chicks. I banded, in proper English ringed (!) the chicks. As Ringed Plovers
> on migration call only occasionally while disturbed breeding birds do it all
> the time, I suggest you return to the plover as you may be dealing with the
> first breeding of Ringed Plover in the USA!
> Good luck again, Norman


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Subject: Re: QRY: Behavior of Ringed Plover ..C.
         hiaticula..
From: norman van swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 15 Aug 2000 4:31am

>    Norman, you are serious, I gather.
Indeed I always am.
>I may tell you that some others people
>also appear to be serious.  But may I attempt to dampen your and their
>enthusiasm by saying that,  for the moment, at least, I'm reading the Aug.
12
>bird as a non-breeding adult because its bill appeared largely dark?  So
what
>was it doing in exhibiting the behavior of breeding birds?  Maybe it was
>practicing for next year?
Perhaps you were just sitting on its chicks!
>
>    Assuming that I may have failed to dampen your enthusiasm, let me ask
you
>just where you banded the breeding pair of Ringed Plovers, and to describe
the
>habitat.  North Monomoy is a sandy barrier island, much of which is roped
off
>the the US Fish and Wildlife Service to protect nesting and staging birds.
Aug
>12 was well within a protected area, on the muddy slope of a small, grassy
>hummock in an extensive flat where birds roost at high tide.   In my
judgment,
>the hummock would offer little  protection against periodic very high
tides.  In
>addition, the weather on Cape Cod generally has been very rainy.  Such
weather
>washed out the first known attempted U.S. nesting by Black-headed Gull some
>years ago, on North Monomoy.

I found my birds near the water's edge of a stone barrier along the coast of
the Maasvlakte in the Port of Rotterdam, the Netherlands: 51.57N 04.02E.
Ringed Plovers may begin breeding here from March onwards and many nests are
lost. Birds that still have chicks now may have lost earlier clutches due to
flooding, heavy rain etc. The eggs usually are laid in depressions in the
sand along the outer edge of the dunes, or in pebbles, shells etc on beaches
and sand banks. When the chicks are hatched the parents lead them to the
water's edge to feed. Cape Cod seems an excellent place for this. As it is
late in the season the colour of the bill may already begin to change and
the adult may also be actively molting its plumage, this it has to do, with
or without chicks!
Any chance of you visiting the area again?
Norman


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Subject: Re: Behavior of Ringed Plover ..C. hiaticula..
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 15 Aug 2000 11:49am

    Norman and friends:

norman van swelm wrote:

> Perhaps you were just sitting on its chicks!

        No, I was standing on them.  One doesn't sit where I was standing
unless
one wants to acquire a very damp bum.

> Any chance of you visiting the area again?

        Definitely, but three very sharp local birders have been alerted, one
of
whom went to the area 24 hours after I did.  He did not record the bird.  He
went before I had called him, but I'm very confident that had the bird been
calling, he would have noted it, and, that had it been visible, he would have
found it.  The restricted area is quite large.  Though the bird's call is
distinctive, one might easily fail to find its source if distant among
thousands
of other birds or hidden by grasses and small hummocks.  .

        Yours,

        Jim Barton
        redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
        Cambridge, MA


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Subject: [Fwd: [UKBN} BOU Splits]
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 16 Aug 2000 10:17am

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From: "Gareth Watkins" <gareth.watkins(AT)kingston-internet.net>
To: <ukbirdnet(AT)dcs.bbk.ac.uk>
Subject: [UKBN] [UKBN} BOU Splits
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:29:26 +0100
Sender: owner-ukbirdnet(AT)dcs.bbk.ac.uk
Reply-To: "Gareth Watkins" <gareth.watkins(AT)kingston-internet.net>

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Hi all,

This has just come over the pager:

As of Jan 2001, the BOU is splitting the following:

Teal into Eurasian and Green-winged
Redpoll into Lesser and Common
Mediterranean Shearwater into Balearic and Yelkouan

This is a surprise to me, I had no idea they were so close to deciding =
on these, especially the Teal.  Can anyone shed more light on these?

Cheers
Gareth
http://fly.to/hertsbirdclub

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Subject: RFH - Poss. Finnish-banded fuscus in Bahrain
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 17 Aug 2000 8:31am

Dear All,
I need help with trying to "guesstimate" the band/ring data on the
following bird:
http://www.martinreid.com/fuscp12.html
The first image is frame one of the film, and there are no other iamges of
it after the flight shot ( frame two); i cannot find any other images of
this bird on rolls that preceded this one; I don't recall seeing the band
in the field - but I've slept since then, so who knows....
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but there does not appear to be a fuscus
recovery from Bahrain, thus this record would be quite significant.  I
wonder if anyone has some OCR-type  or other image software that could help
clarify the digits in this image? - if so, I'd gladly send the original (
or a cropped high-resolution scan) to further this.
All Finnish-banded fuscus have numbers starting with the letter "C", and
the other three characters can be alpha or numeric, I believe.
Can anyone tell me if fuscus ( not graellsii or intermedius) has be ringed
outside of Finland, and if so, what colour scheme was used? - thanks.
Martin

Martin Reid
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com  or  http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa


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Subject: Re: [Fwd: [UKBN} BOU Splits]
From: Graham Etherington <etherington(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 17 Aug 2000 10:43am

Dear James et. al.,
The BOU have recently been examining the following taxa with regards to
splits:

Tundra Swan Cygnus columbianus
Bean Goose Anser fabalis
Brent Goose Branta bernicla
Common Teal Anas crecca
Common Snipe Gallinago gallinago
Herring Gull Larus argentatus
Yellow Wagtail Motacilla flava
White Wagtail M. alba
Carrion Crow Corvus corone
Common Redpoll Carduelis flammea

Balearic Shearwater is the only recently split taxa missing from this list,
but one would hope that they do not restrict their research only to birds
agreed on during AGM's!

Best wishes,
Graham Etherington
Norwich, UK
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


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Subject: Re: BOU Splits
From: Bill or Sue Smith <birdsmiths(AT)hotmail.com>
Date: 17 Aug 2000 12:08pm

    As I understand yesterday's various BOU press releases, the BOURC has
actually split the Common Teal into Eurasian Teal (A. crecca) and
Green-winged Teal (A. carolinensis).  They have also split  two other
species (Common Redpoll and Citril Finch) which have no impact on North
America.  They indicate that they will publish their reasoning "in due
course", so now we can only speculate why.  However, there are good
published papers in the European literature for the latter two actions.

    As far as I know, the only modern paper to deal with the taxonomy of
Anas crecca is Zink, et al. 1995. Trans-beringia comparisons of
mitochondrial DNA differertiation in birds.  Condor 97: 639-649.  These
authors did study the DNA of the Eurasian and Green-winged Teal (sample
size=3) and obtained ambiguous results.  Their final sentence is, "Further
study is needed to determine species limits in A. crecca."

    Jim Barton asked whether the AOU is considering splitting the Common
Teal.  As I read the recently published 42nd supplement to the AOU
Check-list, the answer is, "No".  At least, it is not listed as an agenda
item. The AOU committee has made it pretty clear that they will not act
without convincing published evidence.

Bill
-----------------
The Smiths
Grays Harbor, Washington USA
birdsmiths(AT)hotmail.com


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Subject: info on Yellow-faced Grassquit subspecies?
From: Katrina Knight <kknight(AT)EPIX.NET>
Date: 17 Aug 2000 12:38pm

Hello,

I need to change the subject away from the usual gulls and shorebirds
for a moment. I'm looking for information on the subspecies of
Yellow-faced Grassquit. The only information I have found is about two
lines comparing them in the 1934 edition of Bond's field guide to the
West Indies. I saw a grassquit in the Dry Tortugas, Florida back in May
and I've had my report all written-up and ready to send to the state
records committee for ages, except that I would really like to be able
to say which sub-species I think it was. I think I know from what Bond
said, but a two-line comparison with no pictures is not a lot of
information to go on and I would like a better reference. My library
isn't very extensive in that area and most of what I have is fairly new
and skips over such details as subspecies identification. Can anyone
point me to what references would be helpful or where on the web I can
find good pictures of both or anything else useful? Thanks.

--
Katrina Knight
kknight(AT)epix.net
Reading, PA


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Subject: BOU splits -- followup
From: Bill or Sue Smith <birdsmiths(AT)hotmail.com>
Date: 18 Aug 2000 10:20am

Martin Reid has called my attention to a 1999 paper by Johnson, K.P &
Sorensen, M.D. in Auk 116: 792-805, which reports on more detailed study of
the phylogeny of the dabbling ducks based on DNA, etc.  They seem to find
ample molecular evidence for splitting the Green-winged and Eurasian Teals
(and for placing the Aleutian form with the Eurasian, not Green-winged).  I
had overlooked and was unaware of this paper.

The AOU committee did write in its 42nd supplement, "Several other matters
published late in 1999 have been added to the agenda..."  This may well be
one of them.

Cheers,

Bill
-----------------
The Smiths
Grays Harbor, Washington USA
birdsmiths(AT)hotmail.com


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Subject: gull identification website moved to new location
From: Steve Hampton <SHAMPTON(AT)OSPR.DFG.CA.GOV>
Date: 18 Aug 2000 1:38pm

Sorry for the inconvenience, as well as the untimely mention of gulls during
shorebird migration, but Don DesJardin and I have been forced to move our gull
website back to a previous location:

http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/6181/gulls.htm

Please change your bookmarks and links accordingly.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Thanks to all who continue to contribute to these pages, either with photos or
by way of comments!

We hope to update links and add more photos (plus a new quiz bird) in the near
future.

Steve Hampton
_____________________
Resource Economist
Office of Spill Prevention and Response
California Dept of Fish and Game
PO Box 944209
Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
-----------------------------------
(916) 323-4724 phone
(916) 324-8829 fax


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Subject: Re: BOU Splits
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 19 Aug 2000 6:15am

Dear Bill, Sue, and Id-ers,
Further to Bill's update, here is a little more detail on the subject:
Regarding Anas crecca:- in Birding World Volume 12, number 9 Jon King, in
his report on recent ornithological publications, cites Johnson and
Sorenson in the Auk 116: 792-805.  This study used molecular data,
basically DNA sequencing using two mitochondrial genes. A fascinating
phylogenetic tree was revealed, one that allows insight into the appearance
in hybrids of a Baikal Teal-like facial pattern - I recommend that you read
Jon's excellent summary in BW.
In their study Johnson and Sorenson reveal that the genetic difference
between Common Teal (crecca) and Green-winged Teal (delawarensis) was, by
species standards, huge: 5.8%. This is larger than in many superspecies
pairs that we currently recognise - and don't we humans differ from
chimpanzees by only 3%?  The study also states that the two forms are not
even each-others' closest relatives (Speckled Teal is closer to
delawarensis than is crecca; the Aleutian form nimia was found to be
genetically identical to crecca).  King mentions the earlier work of Zink
which, by the way, used a quite different genetic technique (restriction
fragment length polymorphisms, rather than gene sequencing); Zink found
three distinct haplotypes, two of which strongly supported species-level
distinction, but one was found in both taxa, leading Zink to conclude that
gene exchange was occuring and more study was needed.
Well, more study has been done, and published, and it seems to strongly
support crecca and delawarensis as separate species ( per Johnson and
Sorenson).
Thus I ask: what constitutes "convincing published evidence"?  I think it
would be great for the AOU to consider splitting crecca and delawarensis,
especially as we regard Blue-winged and Cinnamon Teal as separate species,
despite the above study finding that the genetic difference is only 0.19%....
Can anyone at AOU tell us if GW Teal/this study are indeed part of "Several
other matters published late in 1999 have been added to the agenda..." - ?
Cheers,
Martin

At 12:08 PM 8/17/00 -0700, you wrote:
>    As I understand yesterday's various BOU press releases, the BOURC has
>actually split the Common Teal into Eurasian Teal (A. crecca) and
>Green-winged Teal (A. carolinensis).  They have also split  two other
>species (Common Redpoll and Citril Finch) which have no impact on North
>America.  They indicate that they will publish their reasoning "in due
>course", so now we can only speculate why.  However, there are good
>published papers in the European literature for the latter two actions.
>
>    As far as I know, the only modern paper to deal with the taxonomy of
>Anas crecca is Zink, et al. 1995. Trans-beringia comparisons of
>mitochondrial DNA differertiation in birds.  Condor 97: 639-649.  These
>authors did study the DNA of the Eurasian and Green-winged Teal (sample
>size=3) and obtained ambiguous results.  Their final sentence is, "Further
>study is needed to determine species limits in A. crecca."
>
>    Jim Barton asked whether the AOU is considering splitting the Common
>Teal.  As I read the recently published 42nd supplement to the AOU
>Check-list, the answer is, "No".  At least, it is not listed as an agenda
>item. The AOU committee has made it pretty clear that they will not act
>without convincing published evidence.
>
>Bill
>-----------------
>The Smiths
>Grays Harbor, Washington USA
>birdsmiths(AT)hotmail.com
>
Martin Reid
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com  or  http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa


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Subject: RE BOU Splits and GW Teal
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 19 Aug 2000 8:53am

Dear all,
Thanks to Noel Wamer I see that I do indeed suffer from lariphilia, and
used the wrong State for GW Teal - it should of course be carolinensis, not
delawarensis!  My only feeble excuse is that as an exiled Brit, I get the
States mixed up a bit.....sorry.
Martin
Martin Reid
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com  or  http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa