ID-FRONTIERS for March 11-17, 2001

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   new email address   Peter Trimble    Mon, 12 Mar 2001   6:25am   Northeast Ohio Gulls   John Pogacnik    Tue, 13 Mar 2001   4:42am   Taxonomy of Chat Tanagers   Richard Knapton    Tue, 13 Mar 2001   9:45am   Re: Northeast Ohio Gulls   Steve Hampton    Tue, 13 Mar 2001   10:57am   Re: Northeast Ohio Gulls   Phil Pickering    Tue, 13 Mar 2001   12:42pm   Re: Taxonomy of Chat Tanagers   Bill or Sue Smith    Tue, 13 Mar 2001   3:10pm   Re: Northeast Ohio Gulls   Chris Kimber    Tue, 13 Mar 2001   3:21pm   Northeast Ohio Gull addendum   John Pogacnik    Tue, 13 Mar 2001   6:21pm   Re: Northeast Ohio Gull addendum   Tony Leukering    Tue, 13 Mar 2001   7:46pm   Re: Northeast Ohio Gulls   Bruce Mactavish    Tue, 13 Mar 2001   8:32pm   Re: Northeast Ohio Gulls addendum   Phil Pickering    Tue, 13 Mar 2001   9:02pm   Re: Northeast Ohio Gulls   Robert H. Lewis   Tue, 13 Mar 2001   9:05pm   Re: Northeast Ohio Gull addendum   Alan Wormington    Wed, 14 Mar 2001   3:00pm   Fwd: [pelagics] Mystery Gull   Alvaro Jaramillo    Wed, 14 Mar 2001   6:13pm   Re: Northeast Ohio Gulls addendum   Peter Adriaens    Thu, 15 Mar 2001   6:33am   Greenland, The next ATTU?   ian paulsen    Sat, 17 Mar 2001   11:50pm

To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'. This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.

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Subject: new email address
From: Peter Trimble <merlin(AT)CAPECOD.NET>
Date: 12 Mar 2001 6:25am

Please send my messages for this server to my old address as well as
this new one.
merlin226us(AT)yahoo.com

Thank you,
Peter Trimble


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Subject: Northeast Ohio Gulls
From: John Pogacnik <jpogacnik(AT)NCWEB.COM>
Date: 13 Mar 2001 4:42am

Its been a little quiet with gulls lately so here are several photos taken
over the last two weeks in northeast Ohio.  All images were taken with a
Nikon 990 digital camera zoomed at 3x through a Kowa scope at 20x.  The
photos can be found on Vic Fazio's site-

http://www.aves.net/birdnews/march-2001-gulls.html

It has been an interesting two weeks in northeast Ohio with 2-3 California
Gulls, 1 Mew Gull, 1 Nelson's Gull, several Glaucous, Iceland, and Lesser
Black-backed Gulls in addition to the common Great Black-backed, Herring,
Ring-billed, and Bonaparte's.  In addition, a yellow-legged Herring Gull or
Yellow-legged Gull was seen and photographed over the weekend

The first bird was found at Lorain.  It slept throughout most of the
observation time and when it finally woke it flew and no flight shots were
obtained.  In flight the bird show a single large mirror on P-10.  There was
a very small amount of black on the terminal end of P-10 and can be seen in
the photograph of it sleeping.  This bird was Herring Gull sized and was not
even at the large extreme in size.  Also noticeable in the sleeping shot is
the lack of primary extension.  A brief synopsis is included with the
images.

The second bird was seen at Mentor Headlands Beach over the past weekend.  A
brief description is included with the images.  When this bird flew it
showed a large mirror on P-10 and a slightly smaller one on P-9.

The third image has notes included with it.  The fourth set of images is
fairly self-explanatory for the sitting bird.  In flight, the bird showed
the characteristic "dipped in black" wingtips of California Gull.  there was
a large mirror on P-10 and a smaller one on P-9.

Please feel free to comment on any or all of the birds.  My e-mail is listed
below if anyone would like to respond privately or would like any additional
information on any of the birds.

John Pogacnik
4765 Lockwood Road
Perry, OH 44081
(440) 259-2751
jpogacnik(AT)ncweb.com


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Subject: Taxonomy of Chat Tanagers
From: Richard Knapton <rknapton(AT)CAPER2.UCCB.NS.CA>
Date: 13 Mar 2001 9:45am

Greetings - and a request for taxonomy and identification information.

I would very much appreciate information on the current taxonomic status of
the different populations of Chat Tanagers occurring on Hispaniola, and the
salient identification features used in the separation of these populations
(currently termed races).

Thanks in advance
Richard Knapton


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Subject: Re: Northeast Ohio Gulls
From: Steve Hampton <SHAMPTON(AT)OSPR.DFG.CA.GOV>
Date: 13 Mar 2001 10:57am

Some interesting photos.  I'll start by commenting on #1 and #4:

#1 seems like a GBB Gull in every respect except the yellow legs.  The huge
white mirror on P10 is wrong for Kelp and Heuglini (and it's certainly not
fuscus by size).  However, there is a thin black band at the tip of P10; does
that occur on GBB?

#4 doesn't seem right for California to me.  Maybe it's the photo, but the bird
seems too large (is that a R-B near it?), the bill too bulky, the mantle too
light, the legs not yellow enough, and the head shape is off.  Again, maybe it's
 the photo and angle.  I can't fathom what else it might be, however.  The leg
color is down the Kelp line...

Steve Hampton
_____________________
Resource Economist
Office of Spill Prevention and Response
California Dept of Fish and Game
PO Box 944209
Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
-----------------------------------
(916) 323-4724 phone
(916) 324-8829 fax

>>> John Pogacnik <jpogacnik(AT)NCWEB.COM> 03/13/01 03:43AM >>>
Its been a little quiet with gulls lately so here are several photos taken
over the last two weeks in northeast Ohio.  All images were taken with a
Nikon 990 digital camera zoomed at 3x through a Kowa scope at 20x.  The
photos can be found on Vic Fazio's site-

http://www.aves.net/birdnews/march-2001-gulls.html

It has been an interesting two weeks in northeast Ohio with 2-3 California
Gulls, 1 Mew Gull, 1 Nelson's Gull, several Glaucous, Iceland, and Lesser
Black-backed Gulls in addition to the common Great Black-backed, Herring,
Ring-billed, and Bonaparte's.  In addition, a yellow-legged Herring Gull or
Yellow-legged Gull was seen and photographed over the weekend

The first bird was found at Lorain.  It slept throughout most of the
observation time and when it finally woke it flew and no flight shots were
obtained.  In flight the bird show a single large mirror on P-10.  There was
a very small amount of black on the terminal end of P-10 and can be seen in
the photograph of it sleeping.  This bird was Herring Gull sized and was not
even at the large extreme in size.  Also noticeable in the sleeping shot is
the lack of primary extension.  A brief synopsis is included with the
images.

The second bird was seen at Mentor Headlands Beach over the past weekend.  A
brief description is included with the images.  When this bird flew it
showed a large mirror on P-10 and a slightly smaller one on P-9.

The third image has notes included with it.  The fourth set of images is
fairly self-explanatory for the sitting bird.  In flight, the bird showed
the characteristic "dipped in black" wingtips of California Gull.  there was
a large mirror on P-10 and a smaller one on P-9.

Please feel free to comment on any or all of the birds.  My e-mail is listed
below if anyone would like to respond privately or would like any additional
information on any of the birds.

John Pogacnik
4765 Lockwood Road
Perry, OH 44081
(440) 259-2751
jpogacnik(AT)ncweb.com


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Subject: Re: Northeast Ohio Gulls
From: Phil Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 13 Mar 2001 12:42pm

The fourth gull looks to me more like a genetic weirdo Herring or
Herring hybrid of some kind than like a California. The overall
shape is kind of blocky and more Herring-like, the bill seems
proportionately too massive, and the mantle shade seems too
pale - I would think even albertaensis would show at least a bit more
mantle contrast with the adjacent Ring-billed than is apparent here.
The pattern of black and red on the bill tip seems more in line
with a basic-plumage or not-quite-mature pinkfoot than Cal, which
typically have more black than this. And in particular, there is
obvious iris/pupil contrast, which I wouldn't expect to be able to
detect in a photo of a Cal.

Can't comment on the first two gulls. The narrow tail band on the
third gull is interesting, but I would wonder how you could confidently
rule out Herring x Glaucous for this bird - the patterning looks to
be within reason for a few birds I've thought were Herring x Glaucous
in Oregon. An interesting question is can even the palest argenteus
have pale areas that are this extensive in the scaps, coverts, and
upper tertials? And is it typical for argenteus to have completely-
patterned upper tertials and internally-solid lower tertials?

Great photos!

Cheers,

Phil Pickering
Lincoln City, Oregon
philliplc(AT)harborside.com

>Its been a little quiet with gulls lately so here are several photos taken
>over the last two weeks in northeast Ohio.  All images were taken with a
>Nikon 990 digital camera zoomed at 3x through a Kowa scope at 20x.  The
>photos can be found on Vic Fazio's site-

>http://www.aves.net/birdnews/march-2001-gulls.html
...........................
>John Pogacnik
>4765 Lockwood Road
>Perry, OH 44081
>(440) 259-2751
>jpogacnik(AT)ncweb.com


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Subject: Re: Taxonomy of Chat Tanagers
From: Bill or Sue Smith <birdsmiths(AT)hotmail.com>
Date: 13 Mar 2001 3:10pm

    For those interested in this arcane subject, I had an exchange with
Richard Banks, AOU 'Check-list Committee' Chair, on this very topic when
the AOU split the Chat Tanager into two species, Calyptophilus frugivorus
("Eastern Chat-Tanager") and C. tertius ("Western Chat-Tanager") in the
41st supplement to the AOU Check-list (Auk 114: 542-552, 1997).

    The AOU's (1997) action was based on Wetmore & Swales (1931) which
places the race _abbotti_ (Gonave I.) with _frugivorus_ (n. DR) but splits
_tertius_, described from the mountains of s. Haiti in 1929.  It since has
been shown to occur east into the Sierra de Bahoruco in s.w. DR.  W&S
(1931) included another race _selleanus_ with _tertius_, but later Bond
(1936) who independently described _selleanus_ at almost the same time as
_tertius_ was described, concluded that the two were not really different.

    AOU (1997), in re-splitting the Chat Tanager which Bond (1936) had
lumped, probably summarily, apparently was unaware of another race _neibae_
described in 1977 from the Sierra de Neiba, which is in the DR between the
ranges of _tertius_ and _frugivorus_.  It is also said to be intermediate
in characters.  At my urging, Banks examined specimens of all the races
available in the Smithsonian and concluded that _neibae_ was more like
_tertius_ than _frugivorus_, and so it did not invalidate the 1997
(re-)split.

    Unfortunately, the new West Indian field guide by Raffaele, et al.
(1998) did not pick up on all this minutiae, and its text is a bit muddled.
The bird illustrated as "Chat Tanager" is _tertius_ ("Western
Chat-Tanager"), and it is the only form readily seen by birders on
Hispaniola, as far as I know.  "Eastern Chat-Tanager" is smaller and has an
olive-gray rather than brown dorsum, among other distinctions.  Please
don't take this as gospel; someone with access to a series of all the
populations would have to go into finer details.

    I am not myself aware that anyone has definitely encountered the
"Eastern Chat-Tanager" (either _frugivorus_ or _abbotti_) in over
half-a-century.  Because of the muddled taxonomic history and the
relatively small part of Hispaniola studied in recent years, it's not clear
(at least to me) who has found what, when, or where.  I've also been out of
the loop on this for 4 years.  I do know that someone has done some DNA
work recently, but I'm not aware that it's been published.

    If anyone wants more of my information including detailed citations,
please contact me privately.  If anyone has corrective or additional
information to share, however, I hope they'll do so publicly.

Cheers,

Bill Smith
-----------------
The Smiths
Grays Harbor, Washington USA
birdsmiths(AT)hotmail.com


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Subject: Re: Northeast Ohio Gulls
From: Chris Kimber <kestrel201(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 13 Mar 2001 3:21pm

Just to throw in my two cents on gull #4, from limited experience and
literature, the mantle appears to me a bit too pale (almost identical to the
RBGU on my monitor, the bill has too steep a gonydeal angle and too much
overall bulk, and the eye is definately pale to my eye.  It seems like
another weird Herring Gull to me.

Chris Kimber
Toronto, ON

>From: John Pogacnik <jpogacnik(AT)NCWEB.COM>
>Reply-To: John Pogacnik <jpogacnik(AT)NCWEB.COM>
>To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>Subject: [BIRDWG01] Northeast Ohio Gulls
>Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 06:43:01 -0500
>
>Its been a little quiet with gulls lately so here are several photos taken
>over the last two weeks in northeast Ohio.  All images were taken with a
>Nikon 990 digital camera zoomed at 3x through a Kowa scope at 20x.  The
>photos can be found on Vic Fazio's site-
>
>http://www.aves.net/birdnews/march-2001-gulls.html
>
>It has been an interesting two weeks in northeast Ohio with 2-3 California
>Gulls, 1 Mew Gull, 1 Nelson's Gull, several Glaucous, Iceland, and Lesser
>Black-backed Gulls in addition to the common Great Black-backed, Herring,
>Ring-billed, and Bonaparte's.  In addition, a yellow-legged Herring Gull or
>Yellow-legged Gull was seen and photographed over the weekend
>
>The first bird was found at Lorain.  It slept throughout most of the
>observation time and when it finally woke it flew and no flight shots were
>obtained.  In flight the bird show a single large mirror on P-10.  There
>was
>a very small amount of black on the terminal end of P-10 and can be seen in
>the photograph of it sleeping.  This bird was Herring Gull sized and was
>not
>even at the large extreme in size.  Also noticeable in the sleeping shot is
>the lack of primary extension.  A brief synopsis is included with the
>images.
>
>The second bird was seen at Mentor Headlands Beach over the past weekend.
>A
>brief description is included with the images.  When this bird flew it
>showed a large mirror on P-10 and a slightly smaller one on P-9.
>
>The third image has notes included with it.  The fourth set of images is
>fairly self-explanatory for the sitting bird.  In flight, the bird showed
>the characteristic "dipped in black" wingtips of California Gull.  there
>was
>a large mirror on P-10 and a smaller one on P-9.
>
>
>Please feel free to comment on any or all of the birds.  My e-mail is
>listed
>below if anyone would like to respond privately or would like any
>additional
>information on any of the birds.
>
>John Pogacnik
>4765 Lockwood Road
>Perry, OH 44081
>(440) 259-2751
>jpogacnik(AT)ncweb.com

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


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Subject: Northeast Ohio Gull addendum
From: John Pogacnik <jpogacnik(AT)NCWEB.COM>
Date: 13 Mar 2001 6:21pm

A couple of additions or corrections.  Bird #2 is obviously mislabeled.  The
race considered is the Scandanavian race or Larus a. argentatus.  Bird #3 is
the size of a very small Herring Gull.

On bird #4, has anyone considered the possibility of a hybrid.  I know that
hybridism is overused in trying to explain any bird that doesn't quite fit
the norm.  On this bird the bill pattern is similar but not quite perfect
for California.  The eye while not dark as a typical California's, is also
not the clear yellow of a Herring's nor was it pale with dark speckling as I
have seen in a few Herring Gulls. In the field the eye appeared noticeably
dark from over 100 yards away.  The leg color is not at all right for a
Herring but is close to the coloration associated with an immature
California Gull.  While I was unable to photograph the bird in flight, it
looked like a typical california Gull.  The wingtips showed the extensive
black "dipped in ink" appearance of a typical California Gull above and
below.  It also showed the large mirror on P-10 and smaller mirror on P-9.
This coupled with the dark eye, bluish-green legs, and bill markings led me
to consider the Alberta race rather than the nominate race.  The picture in
the new Sibley guide shows a larger paler bird than the nominate.  A couple
of people that are familiar with this race mentioned that it looks good for
this race in many aspects but the eye is too pale and this race shows yellow
legs even in the winter.  The mantle may be a little pale for this race
also.

Since California has become regular in the east isn't it possible that an
occasional individual may be breeding with Herring Gulls.  This past year as
evidenced by the many oddball sightings of apparent Herring x Lesser
Black-backed Gull hybrids, if a similar mate isn't found they may be going
to the next best thing.  About 15 years ago a Laughing Gull was found in a
Ring-billed Gull colony near Toledo Ohio.  This bird was found throughout
the breeding season and a couple of years later a Laughing x Ring-billed
Gull was documented and photographed by several people in the same colony.
This bird was semi-hooded with a reddish ring-tipped bill and had a mantle
color more typical for Laughing but the primaries were more of a combination
of the two.  For the record, this bird was later found on eggs but
mercifully for gull watchers, the eggs never hatched.  A similar, if not the
same bird, was also found on the East coast around this same time.  If I
remember right, this bird was originally reported as a possible Silver Gull.

These oddball hybrids evidently occur from time to time and probably should
be taken into consideration.  It is probably impossible to ever know for
sure with most what they are for sure unless a specimen is collected.  I
think this might be a better way explain this gull rather than just as a
very odd Herring.  It's just a thought.

John Pogacnik
4765 Lockwood Road
Perry, OH 44081
(440) 259-2751
jpogacnik(AT)ncweb.com


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Subject: Re: Northeast Ohio Gull addendum
From: Tony Leukering <GreatGrayO(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 13 Mar 2001 7:46pm

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

In a message dated 3/13/2001 5:22:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jpogacnik(AT)NCWEB.COM writes:

> Since California has become regular in the east isn't it possible that an
> occasional individual may be breeding with Herring Gulls.

Or, vice-versa.  There is a record in Colorado of a Herring Gull pairing with
a California.  The former species' breeding range doesn't even come close to
the state.

Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO

----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----


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Subject: Re: Northeast Ohio Gulls
From: Bruce Mactavish <bruce.mactavish1(AT)NF.SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 13 Mar 2001 8:32pm

The first gull looks like a Lesser Black-backed Gull. Has the gentle sloping
culmen characteristic of LBBG. The egg shaped head - long (slightly rounded)
sloping forehead combined with this bill shape and bill colour give me a
typical LBBG feel. Reported at near size of a Herring Gull is OK for a big
male Lesser Black-backed Gull.  I do not see any Great Black-backed Gull in
this bird. The blocky head and importantly the shape of the bill, steep
culmen drop and massive gonydeal angle, are not there. Even the yellow is
too bright for a GBBG. bill  The white tips of the folded primaries are too
small for a Great Black-backed Gull but fine for a LBBG. The underside of
P10 visible on one shot shows a large white tip with remnants of a
subterminal bar.  This not unusual for a Lesser Black-backed Gull. There is
a photo of a LBBG approaching this pattern in P. J. Grants Gull Bible page
211.

Bird # 3 looks like a 2nd winter smithsonianus.

Bruce Mactavish
St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
bruce.mactavish1(AT)nf.sympatico.ca


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Subject: Re: Northeast Ohio Gulls addendum
From: Phil Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 13 Mar 2001 9:02pm

For comparison, there is a remarkably beautiful collection of
L. a. argentatus photos at -

http://www.zoo.uib.no/~falken/gull/ind_hg.php3

Referring to John's 2nd gull at -

http://www.aves.net/birdnews/march-2001-gulls.html

I think it's interesting that in addition to the greater extent of white
in the primary tips and darker mantle compared to smithsonianus,
this bird also seems to display a posture that Grant states is more
typical of argentatus - in the first two photos the folded wingtips
seem to be held pointed downward more than level. I have seen
smithsonianus stand this way, but I think they more typically hold
their wings more toward horizontal. Perhaps the posture of this
bird isn't coincidental.

I hate to fall back on the "b" word again, but the shape, proportions,
and bill size of the third (1st-basic) gull seem typical of barrovianus
Glaucous in my experience. Even though it's quite small, I still
wonder how it would be possible to rule out smithsonianus x
barrovianus, particularly in light of the cleanly-pale bill base. Since
the European contingent is presumably (and sanely) asleep at the
moment, I looked up several 1st-basic photos of both argenteus
and argentatus and couldn't find any with quite this great an
extent of pale in the scaps and coverts. This doesn't mean it's
not possible, but it certainly doesn't seem to be typical. The
other thing I noticed is that both tend to have fairly regular
(Thayer's-like) checkered coverts, even when showing some
wear. The covert pattern on this gull seems comparatively quite
smeared and irregular, and perhaps what you would expect on
an F1 hybrid. Also, the palest European Herrings (some of which
have been debated as possible Glaucous hybrids on Frontiers
in the past) seem to typically have primaries that are pale-fringed
and paler-brown than typical, which isn't the case with this gull.
Smithsonianus x Glaucous (Nelson's) apparently can be quite
pale overall like this, but retain dark primary pigmentation. Perhaps
the dark primary pigmentation of smithsonianus and the pale bill
base and plumage patterning of Glaucous are dominant traits in
crosses.

Fun stuff!

Phil Pickering
Lincoln City, Oregon
philliplc(AT)harborside.com


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Subject: Re: Northeast Ohio Gulls
From: "Robert H. Lewis" <lewis(AT)BWAY.NET>
Date: 13 Mar 2001 9:05pm

on 3/13/01 6:43 AM, John Pogacnik at jpogacnik(AT)NCWEB.COM wrote:

> Its been a little quiet with gulls lately so here are several photos taken
> over the last two weeks in northeast Ohio.  All images were taken with a
> Nikon 990 digital camera zoomed at 3x through a Kowa scope at 20x.  The
> photos can be found on Vic Fazio's site-
>
> http://www.aves.net/birdnews/march-2001-gulls.html

    On bird #1 what I see really doesn't remind me of Kelp Gull.
Unfortunately you don't have a shot of the open wings or a full profile.
From what I see on photo 3 the underside of the white tip to P10 is much too
big for Kelp.  Indeed, it really seems to be a Great Black-backed.  I gather
the bird would be on the small side for GBB and of course they don't often
have yellow legs, but that would be my tentative id based on these four
photos.

  My Kelp Gull shots are on http://www.bway.net/~lewis/birds/mkelp.html

  For bird # 2 you may have something there.  It really looks like an
argentatus, even to the droopy wings.  It would be great to see a shot of
the open wing!

  Bird # 3 really looks too much like a smallish smithsonianus to impress me
much.  I really can't make out the size of the tailband; it could be in the
range of smithsonianus.  There's a bit too much pink in the bill, even for a
March bird.  On my web site there are a lot of photos taken by Patrick
Comins and a discussion of a bird many us thought was a first winter
argenteus.  It's the second thumbnail under Patrick's heading, "Possible L.
a. argenteus".

Bob Lewis
Sleepy Hollow NY
http://www.bway.net/~lewis/birds/gulls.html


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Subject: Re: Northeast Ohio Gull addendum
From: Alan Wormington <wormington(AT)JUNO.COM>
Date: 14 Mar 2001 3:00pm

Everyone,

In Ontario about 20 years ago (in Toronto) a California Gull was found
within a massive colony of breeding Ring-billed Gulls.  The California
Gull was attending a nest and one egg that it had laid, but it appeared
to be unmated.

Alan Wormington
Leamington, Ontario


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Subject: Fwd: [pelagics] Mystery Gull
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <alvaro(AT)SIRIUS.COM>
Date: 14 Mar 2001 6:13pm

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>Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:07:33 +0200
>Reply-To: pelagics(AT)yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [pelagics] Mystery Gull
>
>To all budding gull experts out there,
>
>We have placed three photos of a mystery gull taken recently on the east
>coast of South Africa on our website at http://www.zestforbirds.co.za
>
>We would appreciate any comments on what you think it is and why.
>
>We will post all the responses to the page in the not too distant future.
>Any help would be appreciated.
>
>Looking forward to hearing from you all.
>
>Kind Regards
>Trevor and John
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Trevor Hardaker and John Graham
>Cape Town, South Africa
>ZEST for BIRDS
>Website: http://www.zestforbirds.co.za
>---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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Alvaro Jaramillo
Biologist
San Francisco Bay Bird Observatory
P.O. Box 247
Alviso, CA 95002
(408)-946-6548

http://www.sfbbo.org/
Home of the California Fall Challenge!!

alvaro(AT)sirius.com

Birds of Chile and
New World Blackbirds at : http://www.sirius.com/~alvaro


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Northeast Ohio Gulls addendum
From: Peter Adriaens <Peter.Adriaens(AT)KENDER-THIJSSEN.BE>
Date: 15 Mar 2001 6:33am

Hello Phil, Robert, and others,

just my (European) thoughts on these gulls:

#1 Could be a Great Black-backed Gull, or (rather) a Lesser Black-backed
Gull.
I simply think that the photographs (two frontal views and one in which the
bird is asleep) do not allow much more than speculation on its identity. In
the field, separating adult Great Black-backed from Lesser Black-backed is
usually not a problem.

#2 Could be an argentatus, but the photographs do not show the primary
pattern of the stretched wing, nor the underside of the wingtip.

#3 This is not an argenteus nor argentatus. The rather uniform (not
streaked) belly, lower breast, and hindneck ("sjawl"), demarcated from the
barred vent/undertail-coverts, combined with the irregularly mottled state
of the outer greater and median coverts, rather dark/dull uppertail and
rump, and extensively pale bill-base are features of smithsonianus. Not much
can be seen of the tail, but the rump has a dull brown-grey general colour,
and the tailband is certainly not very narrow (cf. also the third
photograph). In flight, what can be seen of the greater coverts looks fairly
uniform (not barred). I guess that, from an American point of view, it is
useful to think of 1st winter argenteus as a gull showing wing-coverts that
resemble those of a first winter Thayer's Gull indeed. A pale pink bill with
blackish tip may occur in first-winter argenteus as well, though rarely; it
is more often seen in first-winter smithsonianus.
BTW: I am not entirely sure of the age of this bird, but favour first winter
rather than second winter, because of its narrow, rather pointed, brownish
and moderately worn primaries, the brown tertials with well-demarcated pale
edges (except the upper tertial, which has been moulted), and extensive
pattern on the head and underparts.
In Europe, I would be puzzled by a gull like this too - not because of its
pale upperparts/wingcoverts (which are not outside of the variation in
first-year argenteus), but because of the combination of characters outlined
above.
Apart from the paleness of the upperparts and underparts, nothing seems to
suggest a Glaucous Gull hybrid (cf. dark primaries, tail and dark
first-generation tertials).

#4 Looks more like a Herring Gull than California Gull. (Again, no open-wing
shots)

Best regards,
Peter Adriaens


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Greenland, The next ATTU?
From: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)LINKNET.KITSAP.LIB.WA.US>
Date: 17 Mar 2001 11:50pm

HI ALL:
  I heard a rumor that the AOU is planning to add Greenland to its
checklist in the next addition. If so, would Greenland become the next
ATTU? How can you get to Greenland to bird it?
Sincerely

Ian "Birdbooker" Paulsen
Bainbridge Is., WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
"Rallidae all the way"