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ID-FRONTIERS for March 18-24, 2001
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Re: Greenland, The next ATTU? | norman van swelm | Sun, 18 Mar 2001 | 8:25am |
| sharp-tailed sandpiper, RFI | Steven Mlodinow | Sun, 18 Mar 2001 | 10:27am |
| Re: sharp-tailed sandpiper, RFI | Mike Patterson | Sun, 18 Mar 2001 | 10:44am |
| Re: Greenland, The next ATTU? | David Grant | Sun, 18 Mar 2001 | 3:31pm |
| RFI: Searchable Archive? | Noel Wamer | Sun, 18 Mar 2001 | 7:45pm |
| Strange Gull in Southern California | David Vander Pluym | Sun, 18 Mar 2001 | 11:30pm |
| Greenland | Andrew Kratter | Mon, 19 Mar 2001 | 8:41am |
| Fw: Greenland, The next ATTU? | norman van swelm | Mon, 19 Mar 2001 | 10:41am |
| Re: Elegant Terns in Florida | Lyn Atherton | Mon, 19 Mar 2001 | 1:17pm |
| Re: Elegant Terns in Florida | D. Heindel | Mon, 19 Mar 2001 | 3:48pm |
| Re: Cal Gull in Florida | Lethaby, Nick | Mon, 19 Mar 2001 | 5:02pm |
| New Northeast Ohio Gull Photos | John Pogacnik | Mon, 19 Mar 2001 | 5:24pm |
| Re: Florida Cal | Phil Pickering | Mon, 19 Mar 2001 | 5:33pm |
| "yellow-legged" Herring Gulls | Robert Barber | Mon, 19 Mar 2001 | 7:40pm |
| Re: sharp-tailed sandpiper, RFI | Noel Wamer | Mon, 19 Mar 2001 | 8:50pm |
| Re: Elegant Terns in Florida | Alvaro Jaramillo | Tue, 20 Mar 2001 | 1:29am |
| Florida Elegant Tern | Brian Small | Tue, 20 Mar 2001 | 3:41am |
| Fw: Duck... | norman van swelm | Tue, 20 Mar 2001 | 3:42am |
| Re: Elegant Terns in Florida | Pierre-Andre Crochet | Tue, 20 Mar 2001 | 5:45am |
| Re: Elegant Terns in Florida | Laurent Raty | Tue, 20 Mar 2001 | 10:15am |
| Re: Elegant Terns in Florida | Phil Pickering | Tue, 20 Mar 2001 | 11:01am |
| Northeast Ohio Gulls | John Pogacnik | Sat, 24 Mar 2001 | 7:50pm |
| Canada Goose suspecies | ian paulsen | Sat, 24 Mar 2001 | 11:38pm |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
|
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Greenland, The next ATTU?
From: norman van swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 18 Mar 2001 8:25am
Ian Paulsen wrote:> I heard a rumor that the AOU is planning to add
Greenland to its
>checklist
I hope the AOU keep their hands of the Greenland Oldsquaws! Incidentally I
have proposed to introduce name Oldsquaw in Europe in order to preserve the
bonny name for generations to come.
>How can you get to Greenland to bird it?
dogsledge, ship and by air!
Norman
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: sharp-tailed sandpiper, RFI
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 18 Mar 2001 10:27am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Greetings All
Paul Archer, a member of the Irish BRC, is interested in websites with
Sharp-tailed Sandpiper photos. More specifically, he is interested in birds
moulting from alternate to basic plumage, as they are reviewing such a bird
found during Sep several years ago.
If you know of any such photos viewable on the web, please forward such site
location to parcher(AT)eircom.net
Cheers
Steve Mlodinow
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: sharp-tailed sandpiper, RFI
From: Mike Patterson <celata(AT)pacifier.com>
Date: 18 Mar 2001 10:44am
The best I can do is fairly typical fall juvenile
http://home.pacifier.com/~neawanna/shore_photo/stsa.jpg
http://home.pacifier.com/~neawanna/shore_photo/stsa2.jpg
Steven Mlodinow wrote:
>
> Greetings All
>
> Paul Archer, a member of the Irish BRC, is interested in websites with
>
> Sharp-tailed Sandpiper photos. More specifically, he is interested in
> birds
> moulting from alternate to basic plumage, as they are reviewing such a
> bird
> found during Sep several years ago.
>
> If you know of any such photos viewable on the web, please forward
> such site
> location to parcher(AT)eircom.net
>
> Cheers
> Steve Mlodinow
--
Mike Patterson Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo,
Astoria, OR it is not enough to be persecuted
celata(AT)pacifier.com by an unkind establishment,
you must also be right.
---Robert Park
http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Greenland, The next ATTU?
From: David Grant <dgrant(AT)standsure.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: 18 Mar 2001 3:31pm
So, er, why don't they just add South America while they're at it...and then
Europe, Asia, Australia...
And come on, Oldsquaw while an attractive name on the face of it is less so
in meaning. At least Long-tailed Duck while fairly unimaginative is at least
free from such racist or negative conotations.
Cheers,
Torcuil Grant, 20
Kirriemuir, Scotland.
----- Original Message -----
From: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)LINKNET.KITSAP.LIB.WA.US>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 6:26 AM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Greenland, The next ATTU?
> HI ALL:
> I heard a rumor that the AOU is planning to add Greenland to its
> checklist in the next addition. If so, would Greenland become the next
> ATTU? How can you get to Greenland to bird it?
> Sincerely
>
> Ian "Birdbooker" Paulsen
> Bainbridge Is., WA, USA
> ipaulsen(AT)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
> "Rallidae all the way"
>
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: RFI: Searchable Archive?
From: Noel Wamer <nwamer(AT)FCOL.COM>
Date: 18 Mar 2001 7:45pm
I wandered the Web for awhile tonight seeking a searchable archive of
postings to this listserv. The obvious starting point was the archive site
for listserv.arizona.edu (http://listserv.arizona.edu/lsv/www/). I found
all the other BIRDWGx lists there except for this one. If there is a
complete, searchable archive I would appreciate a pointer to its location.
Thanks in advance!
Later...
Noel Wamer
Jacksonville, FL, US
nwamer(AT)fcol.com http://www.badbirdz.com/
"Even in its most primitive form, naming is a kind of judgment."
(Walker Percy)
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Strange Gull in Southern California
From: David Vander Pluym <SCRE(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 18 Mar 2001 11:30pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
his past Saturday morning (3-17-01) at Ormond Beach in Port Hueneme, Ventura=
=20
County which is in southern California I had a small dark-backed, long winge=
d=20
gull. At first I Tthought the bird might be a Lesser Black-backed Gull but=20
upon further review I no longer believe this. I currently am not sure about=
=20
what this bird is. The bird was a small dark backed (about as dark as a=20
Western and nearly half the size) gull with very long primaries.=A0 The tail=
=20
tip fell between the 3rd and 4th primary.=A0 In flight the bird had a small=20
white mirror on P-10 and an all white tail.=A0 The bird also had a dark eye=20=
and=20
pink legs. The bill was proportionaly small with no gonydeal angle to speak=
=20
of and was bright yellow with a red dot on the lower mandiable. I have=20
posted 4 photos here <A HREF=3D"http://y42.photos.yahoo.com/bc/psyfrmcali/ls=
t?.dir=3D/My+Photos&.src=3Dph&.order=3D&.view=3Dt&.done=3Dhttp%3a//y42.photo=
s.yahoo.com/bc/psyfrmcali/lst%3f.dir=3D/My%2bPhotos%26.src=3Dph%26.view=3Dt"=
>Click here: Yahoo! Photos - Thumbnails View</A>. These were=20
taken from video that I shot ot the bird. Unfortunetly the captured images=20
are not the best and I will try and clean them up at a later time. I would=20
be very interested to hear what anyone thinks of this gull.
David Vander Pluym
Age 18
Ventura California
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Greenland
From: Andrew Kratter <kratter(AT)FLMNH.UFL.EDU>
Date: 19 Mar 2001 8:41am
We in the AOU Committee on Classification and Nomenclature (the
"check-list" committee) have talked informally of adding Greenland to the
AOU area, the reasons to include it being: it was formerly covered in our
region (through 5th edition), it is not currently covered by other
committees, and its avifauna has a large North American component .
Andrew Kratter
AOU Committee on Classification and Nomenclature
At 09:05 PM 3/18/01 +0000, you wrote:
>So, er, why don't they just add South America while they're at it...and then
>Europe, Asia, Australia...
Dr. Andrew Kratter, Collections Manager- Ornithology
Florida Museum of Natural History
PO Box 117800
University of Florida
Gainesville, FL 32611 USA
Ph. (352) 392-3293
Fax (352) 846-0287
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Fw: Greenland, The next ATTU?
From: norman van swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 19 Mar 2001 10:41am
David Grant wrote:
>>And come on, Oldsquaw while an attractive name on the face of it is less
so
>>in meaning. At least Long-tailed Duck while fairly unimaginative is at
>least
>>free from such racist or negative conotations.
Well we've been here before and I see the 'this is off topic' messages of
hobby censors coming but let me say this: as with so many words Oldsquaw can
be used in a positive and a negative sense. If we ban all such words, our
languages will loose a substantial number of words and will be all the more
poorer for it. If the name Oldsquaw was deliberately given to the wee duck
and used to offend someone I would not use it but there is no evidence for
this as it fits the duck well. This name is, like it or not, is part of
American history. On the other hand I feel that if it is true that
indigenous hunters play the offended party when they are confronted with the
ill effects of their hunting practices and after all this was the basis of
the AOU decision than we reward foul play. In that case I feel that it is an
act of cowardice to change the name of the duck in question and I can assure
you that the hunters in question will laugh hard and will now think about
the next nonsense excuse to avoid doing what they should do which is stop
hunting Oldsquaws!
As for annexing Greenland I can think of more justifiable arguments in doing
so than in banning the name Oldsquaw but it is debatable where birds are
concerned since after all almost all migration from most species breeding in
Greenland is directed towards Europe and Africa i.e. for instance Turnstone,
Dunlin, Knot, Iceland Gull, Wheatear.
Norman
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Elegant Terns in Florida
From: Lyn Atherton <bonniedabird(AT)EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: 19 Mar 2001 1:17pm
Please go to <http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/elegant_tern.htm>
to view two additional images of the Elegant Tern that appeared at Ft.
De Soto Park, Pinellas County, Florida this past winter. I believe
these additional images showing the bill structure and color, and
shaggy, more extensive crest support the ID as Elegant and not Cayenne.
I had only a few seconds to photograph the Ft. De Soto Elegant before it
flew off, thus the poor quality of my photos. (The early morning light
caused the bill to appear in the photos paler than it actually was.)
Fortunately, Clay Kelsey relocated the tern a few weeks later and was
able to get the far better images that I've added to my site.
I've also added at
<http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/FirstElegant.htm> images of the
1999 Elegant that appeared at Honeymoon Island SRA, Pinellas County.
Please address any comments to the group.
Lyn
--
Lyn Atherton
Tierra Verde, FL
bonniedabird(AT)earthlink.net
url: http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/Home.htm
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Elegant Terns in Florida
From: "D. Heindel" <birdfish(AT)earthlink.net>
Date: 19 Mar 2001 3:48pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi all,
While you're at the above mentioned site, I'd be interested in knowing the
general opinion on the California Gull photos at the site. Is it a
CAGU?
best,
Mitch
http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/pelagics
----- Original Message -----
From: Lyn
Atherton
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Sent: 3/19/2001 12:18:15 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Elegant Terns in
Florida
Please go to http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/elegant_tern.htm
to view two additional images of the Elegant Tern that appeared at
Ft.
De Soto Park, Pinellas County, Florida this past winter. I
believe
these additional images showing the bill structure and color, and
shaggy, more extensive crest support the ID as Elegant and not
Cayenne.
I had only a few seconds to photograph the Ft. De Soto Elegant before
it
flew off, thus the poor quality of my photos. (The early morning
light
caused the bill to appear in the photos paler than it actually was.)
Fortunately, Clay Kelsey relocated the tern a few weeks later and was
able to get the far better images that I've added to my site.
I've also added at
http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/FirstElegant.htm
images of the
1999 Elegant that appeared at Honeymoon Island SRA, Pinellas County.
Please address any comments to the group.
Lyn
--
Lyn Atherton
Tierra Verde, FL
bonniedabird(AT)earthlink.net
Mitch Heindel
birdfish(AT)earthlink.net
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Cal Gull in Florida
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 19 Mar 2001 5:02pm
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Given the state of the plumage, I'm don't believe you can make any definite
call on this, especially as the tail and wing pattern weren't seen well. It
doesn't look right for a CAGU to me.
I think the pale bill tip would be wrong for CAGU. My recollection is that
CAGU have pink bills with dark tips in the 1Y, and then bluish-green bills
with dark tips in the 2Y. They don't start getting a pink tip to the dark
tip like say Glaucous Gulls do. Of course, albertensis CAGUs may be
different, but these also winter largely on the W. coast so I assume I have
seen plently of these too.
-----Original Message-----
From: D. Heindel [mailto:birdfish(AT)earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 2:48 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Elegant Terns in Florida
Hi all,
While you're at the above mentioned site, I'd be interested in knowing the
general opinion on the California Gull photos at the site. Is it a CAGU?
best,
Mitch
http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/pelagics
<http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/pelagics>
----- Original Message -----
From: Lyn Atherton <mailto:bonniedabird(AT)EARTHLINK.NET>
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU <mailto:bonniedabird(AT)EARTHLINK.NET>
Sent: 3/19/2001 12:18:15 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Elegant Terns in Florida
Please go to < http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/elegant_tern.htm
<http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/elegant_tern.htm> >
to view two additional images of the Elegant Tern that appeared at Ft.
De Soto Park, Pinellas County, Florida this past winter. I believe
these additional images showing the bill structure and color, and
shaggy, more extensive crest support the ID as Elegant and not Cayenne.
I had only a few seconds to photograph the Ft. De Soto Elegant before it
flew off, thus the poor quality of my photos. (The early morning light
caused the bill to appear in the photos paler than it actually was.)
Fortunately, Clay Kelsey relocated the tern a few weeks later and was
able to get the far better images that I've added to my site.
I've also added at
< http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/FirstElegant.htm
<http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/FirstElegant.htm> > images of the
1999 Elegant that appeared at Honeymoon Island SRA, Pinellas County.
Please address any comments to the group.
Lyn
--
Lyn Atherton
Tierra Verde, FL
bonniedabird(AT)earthlink.net <mailto:bonniedabird(AT)earthlink.net>
Mitch Heindel
birdfish(AT)earthlink.net <mailto:birdfish(AT)earthlink.net>
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: New Northeast Ohio Gull Photos
From: John Pogacnik <jpogacnik(AT)NCWEB.COM>
Date: 19 Mar 2001 5:24pm
Just to advise, Vic Fazio has posted a couple of more northeast Ohio gull
photos taken over the weekend on his site. On the main site
(http://www.aves.net/birdnews/) is a photo of a leucistic Ring-billed Gull
from Conneaut, Ohio. It's a distant shot. You can go to the gull page by
clicking on the link under March 19 or by going to this address:
http://www.aves.net/birdnews/mar2001b-gulls.html
The first bird was photographed at Conneaut Harbor and shows a third summer
Iceland Gull with pure white wingtips. Is this an example of the palest
extreme of Larus glaucoides kumlieni?
The second photo was taken at Lorain, Ohio on Sunday. It was observed at
first from a distance of over 100 yards. The dark clear gray mantle, yellow
legs, and tail heavy posture gave the impression of a California Gull. It
was preening at the time so eye color and bill shape were not seen. I moved
in closer and it was then that the pale eye became evident. The mantle
color was a clear neutral gray rather than the bluish gray of a Herring or a
brownish tinged gray of a Lesser Black-backed. It was very similar in shade
to that of a nominate California Gull. The legs were a dull yellow with no
hint of pink. The legs were of average length. The eye color was pale and
the orbital ring which was difficult to discern was orange or
reddish-orange. Unfortunately the gulls were resting on the docks then
would head up the river to feed so there was little opportunity for
in-flight photos. In flight the bird had a large mirror on P-10 and appeared
to have a smaller one on P-9. The undersides of the wingtips were dark,
washed out looking. The upper surface of the wingtips were black. The
black of the upper surface did not appear to be overly extensive in the
brief look I got. Most of my flight views were from below. The bird was
fairly good-sized equaling the larger Herring Gulls.
John Pogacnik
4765 Lockwood Road
Perry, OH 44081
(440) 259-2751
jpogacnik(AT)ncweb.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Florida Cal
From: Phil Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 19 Mar 2001 5:33pm
Just my impressions, but the shape seems more Herring-like, and
proportionately too long-legged, thick and long-billed, and barrel-
chested for Cal. The very long, flat forehead is also much more
typical of Herring. Seems to be a quite worn, or possibly even oiled
1st-basic bird. I think it's probable that it's malnourished due to the
oiling or whatever caused the terrible plumage state, resulting in
an abnormally lean look for a Herring. It could also be a Herring or
Herring hybrid with genetic deficiencies. In particular, the strange
bill pattern looks like the result of genetic or nutritional problems.
Also, I'm not 100% sure about this, but my impression is that any
barring on the outer juvenile retrices tends to wear much quicker
on Cal than on Herring, and the appearance of the barring on
this bird seems a little too defined and fresh for a 1st-spring Cal.
Cheers,
Phil Pickering
Lincoln City, Oregon
philliplc(AT)harborside.com
>Hi all,
>
>
>While you're at the above mentioned site, I'd be interested in knowing the
>general opinion on the California Gull photos at the site. Is it a
>CAGU?
.............
http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/CalGullSS.htm
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: "yellow-legged" Herring Gulls
From: Robert Barber <bob(AT)VERTIGO.HSRL.RUTGERS.EDU>
Date: 19 Mar 2001 7:40pm
Hi all,
I have a local hotspot for "yellow-legged" Herring Gulls here in New
Jersey. I think that diet, probably in combination with genetics is the
cause. I have some pictures and more info on this hypothesis on this
page:
http://www.dreamwater.net/bbarber/birds/gulls/YL/omissus.html
Bob
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: sharp-tailed sandpiper, RFI
From: Noel Wamer <nwamer(AT)FCOL.COM>
Date: 19 Mar 2001 8:50pm
When Mlodinow's RFI came in it was well in to a day of constant rain
here. I figured I had two choices: Paint some furniture or search around
the Web for pictures of very pretty Calidris. I chose the latter. The
first 50 pages of a google search produced 21 image-hits of Sharp-tailed
Sandpipers. I sent the URLs on along to Paul Archer. He is still seeking
other photos that might be on Korean or Japanese language sites that the
google search may not have picked up. I thought that Mark Brazil might be
of some help, but I cannot find an e-mail address for him. If Mark, or
someone who knows his e-mail address reads this, they might want to contact
Paul Archer at parcher(AT)eircom.net.
BTW, here are the URLs...
http://members.tripod.com/~tbrc/stsa.htm
http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~jmorlan/stsa1.htm
http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~jmorlan/stsa.htm
http://www.aves.net/rarities/stsand84.htm
http://pw1.netcom.com/~djhoff/sb-stsp.html
http://homepage1.nifty.com/bird-edu/eng/s-t_sand.html
http://www.rtd.com/~garyhr/Video%20Captures/Sharp-tailedSand.html
http://homepage2.nifty.com/stints/calidris/sharptail-asC.html
http://homepage2.nifty.com/stints/calidris/sharptail-aswB.html
http://www.focusonnature.com/Sharp-tailed%20Sparrow.htm
http://www.montereybay.com/creagrus/mtymiss09.html
http://www.birdersworld.com/photo/1999/9910photo.html
http://www.tsuru-bird.net/shorebirds/sandpiper_sharp-tailed1.jpg
http://columbia-pacific.interrain.org/ahscience/shore_photo/stsa.jpg
http://www.cfo-link.org/Images/Sharp-tailed%20Sandpiper%20copy.jpg
http://www.sam.hi-ho.ne.jp/kazu-naitou/birdsgallary5.htm
http://www.bric.postech.ac.kr/images/back/203.jpg
http://my.dreamwiz.com/spoonbill61/natural/bird/a7sandpiper.htm
http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~yachoo/zukan/tori/sigi/uzurasigi.htm
http://biology.fullerton.edu/jweintraub/ornithology/images/birds/shrttaileds
and.jpg
http://pintail.megalam.co.kr/bird/2000/00apr/kht0423.htm
Later...
Noel Wamer
Jacksonville, FL, US
nwamer(AT)fcol.com http://www.badbirdz.com/
"Even in its most primitive form, naming is a kind of judgment."
(Walker Percy)
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Elegant Terns in Florida
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <alvaro(AT)SIRIUS.COM>
Date: 20 Mar 2001 1:29am
At 03:18 PM 3/19/01 -0500, Lyn Atherton wrote:
>Please go to <http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/elegant_tern.htm>
>to view two additional images of the Elegant Tern that appeared at Ft.
>De Soto Park, Pinellas County, Florida this past winter. I believe
>these additional images showing the bill structure and color, and
>shaggy, more extensive crest support the ID as Elegant and not Cayenne.
>I had only a few seconds to photograph the Ft. De Soto Elegant before it
>flew off, thus the poor quality of my photos. (The early morning light
>caused the bill to appear in the photos paler than it actually was.)
>Fortunately, Clay Kelsey relocated the tern a few weeks later and was
>able to get the far better images that I've added to my site.
Birders:
I think I should speak up here since I was the one that had problems
with the original picture. Indeed the new photos show a bird which looks
exactly how I would expect an Elegant Tern to look. The new photos dispel
any possibility of the bird being a Cayenne Tern in my mind. I apologize
for questioning the original photo, but it does give an unfavourable
impression with regards to the identification of the bird. A quick point
with regards to head pattern. It appears (based on limited knowledge) that
the Cayenne Tern has a winter head pattern similar to that of a Sandwich
Tern. The "mask" is thin being barely wider than the eye diameter, broken
up by posterior eye crescent, and the white of the crown extends well back
behind the eye. On Elegant Terns, the mask is wider with eye crescents
small or lacking, and the white of the crown tends to reach just to the
level of the eye.
cheers,
Al
Alvaro Jaramillo
Montara,
California
alvaro(AT)sirius.com
Field Guides Inc.
http://www.fieldguides.com/home.html
Helm guide to the New World Blackbirds, Birding in Chile, at:
http://www.sirius.com/~alvaro
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Florida Elegant Tern
From: Brian Small <BrianJSmall(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 20 Mar 2001 3:41am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Dear All
Please forgive my ignorance, but (ignoring other aspects of the tern, such as
size and primary pattern) is the head pattern of the tern in the images at
http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/elegant_tern.htm not at odds for that
generally accepted as typical for Elegant?
A review of the literature and photographs of Elegant gives the impression
that in winter plumage there is a small black area in front of the eye,
linking with the black that emerges from behind the eye - giving the feeling
that the eye is surrounded by black and that the black crest begins in front
of the eye. The black flares back from the eye, only rarely does the white
of the crown dent into the black a little, but certainly not completely. The
black of the crest is very dense.
On Royal in winter there is a small black mark in front of the eye, but
posteriorly the eye is isolated from the black of the crest. The black of
the crest is more 'peppered' with white (giving a less dense black
impression) and the white of the crown seems to extend further back onto the
rear crown (restricting the amount of black).
Looking at the images, is the head pattern not more typical for Royal than
Elegant? Can Elegant ever show such a pattern?
Brian Small
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Subject: Fw: Duck...
From: norman van swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 20 Mar 2001 3:42am
Here is a message from a friend
>
>Hi Norman,
> I'm having difficulty sending to BIRDWG01 and also getting in
>touch with the moderators, so I would like to ask your help in sending the
>following email to the list
>
>Harry
>hlehto(AT)astro.utu.fi
>===================================
>Dear id-people,
> No hybris ducks in a long time, so here we go again.
>This past February we heard of an interesting hybrid duck in Sweden.
>After obtaining its exact coordinates (for GPS) and confirming that it
>was still present (this was all done with the superb collaboration from
>Swedish birders) my brother Henry and I decided to go for the 36
>hour trip to see the bird.
>
>Well, now we would like to welcome your comments on this tricky hybrid
>anasxaythya.
>
>Photographs (of non-video type) can be found at
>http://www.astro.utu.fi/~hlehto/photo/aytxanas.shtml
>
>Regards
>Harry
>hlehto(AT)astro.utu.fi
>
>
>
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Subject: Re: Elegant Terns in Florida
From: Pierre-Andre Crochet <crochet(AT)CRIT.UNIV-MONTP2.FR>
Date: 20 Mar 2001 5:45am
Dear all,
Why is this "just" not a lesser crested tern Sterna bengalensis.
My first impression when looking at the pictures is of a bird very similar
to LCT (which I have seen several times in Morocco). The bill shape (quite
straight, not as long and slooping as on Elegant, which I only know from
pictures) would fit bengalensis perfectly.
Besides, the rump seems to be dark gray like the back on the flight shot.
Even if this is difficult to judge due to the light, it fits bengalensis
perfectly (which is said in Europe to differ from Elegant by its grey
versus white rump and tail).
Since bengalensis migrates along the Atlantic coast of Africa, it could
cross more easily than Elegant to Europe.
Or am I just naive?
Pierre-Andre
Pierre-Andre Crochet
Laboratoire de Biogeographie et Ecologie des Vertebres
EPHE - c.c. 94
Universite Montpellier II
Place Eugene Bataillon
34095 Montpellier cedex
France
crochet(AT)univ-montp2.fr
tel: + 33 (0)4 67 14 32 90
mobile + 33 (0)6 07 32 60 75
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Elegant Terns in Florida
From: Laurent Raty <l_raty(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 20 Mar 2001 10:15am
Hi all,
Pierre-Andre Crochet wrote:
> Why is this "just" not a lesser crested tern Sterna bengalensis.
This is a good question, of course.
I feel that the first thing that has to be said is that the bird is
apparently a first basic. This age is indicated by the obvious dark
secondary bar and by darkish tertial centres (rather obvious on the newly
added pics). Lesser coverts should normally be dark too, but I don't think
they can be seen adequately on any of the provided pictures.
The age could also perhaps be inferred from the stage of primary molt: all
primaries visible beyond the tertials are obviously dark and rather worn -
compare to the adult Royal that has a complete new set of primaries.
According to Malling Olsen & Larsson, adult Elegant normally either replace
all their primaries before migration (Sep) - thus should have a fresher
wing, as the Royal shown on the pics - either suspend their molt to migrate
with 1-3 old primaries retained (these are molted in winter-spring) - thus
should show a strong contrast between the 1-3 outermost primaries and the
rest of the wing, and look like the first FL bird shown on the same site
(although the comparison is not perfectly good, as this last bird was aged
in the field as second basic, not adult - this would be supported by the
dark subterminal spots to the rectrices and the darkish centres to the inner
secondaries visible on "Elegant5.jpg" - and it is not in arrested molt - it
is growing p8, and seems to be lacking at least one inner primary in the
same time). Post-juvenile primary molt in Elegant should begin with the
innermost PP, at best in Nov. It would therefore be quite normal that only
old primaries be visible on the folded wing in Dec.
On the other hand, I strongly suspect that the information I have at hand
about molt in Elegant Tern is largely insufficient. For instance, the molt
stage of the first FL bird would seem quite out-of-schedule when compared to
what is described for 2nd basic Elegant in MO&L: based on what they write,
I would expect to see birds in this stage in Jan rather than in Oct (or can
this bird be an adult, despite its tail and secondary pattern?). If anybody
can provide it, I would be very interested in any further info on this
topic.
Also, adult LC appear to be later in their primary molt than adult Elegant
so, if we want to take into account the possibility that this bird be a
bengalensis, we can perhaps not age it safely based on what we see of its PP
molt only.
On the FL bird, the bill is rather straight and probably shorter than what a
European birder would expect on a 'typical' Elegant, but not all Elegant are
extremely long-billed (females have smaller bills than males) and, on a bird
of this age, the bill could well not be fully grown. Also, bill tapers
regularly to a very fine and sharp point, which is more typical of elegans
than of bengalensis. The gray rump and tail seem normal for Elegant at this
age - they will turn white later - and so, can't be used as ID pointers.
In terms of winter head pattern, LC is normally much more Sandwich-like than
this bird, in that it has more extensively white crown (thus less extensive
black on the rear head and crown) and that a white eye-ring should be
clearly obvious behind the eye, separating it from the black crest. The
bill color of this bird is also probably very bright for a first basic LC
(it should at best be orange-yellow on LC while it seems - though
marginally - deeper orange than on the adult Royal on the two newly added
pics - but I suspect this can vary to some extent and I would not use it as
an definitive clincher).
Of course, bengalensis is much more often seen in Europe than elegans.
Regards,
Laurent
Laurent Raty
Brussels, Belgium
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Subject: Re: Elegant Terns in Florida
From: Phil Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 20 Mar 2001 11:01am
Perhaps not much help because the date isn't given, but there
are three nice Elegant photos including some young birds at -
http://www.otterside.com/htmfiles/t4-t.htm#terne2
These were presumably taken in August/September. They do show
a little of the variation in bill size and apparent curvature mentioned
by Laurent.
I also was fooled at first by the 12/2 Florida Elegant photo. The
head is angled away from the camera more than it appears at
first glance, and it is also raised in an atypical for Elegant (alert?)
posture, making the bill seem shorter and thinner-based than
it actually is. The other photos all look proportionately fine to
me for Elegant. The black surrounding the eye and connecting
to the crest, and the forward extent of the crest do seem to be
much better fits for Elegant than Cayenne or Lesser Crested.
Cheers,
Phil Pickering
Lincoln City, Oregon
philliplc(AT)harborside.com
>On the FL bird, the bill is rather straight and probably shorter than what a
>European birder would expect on a 'typical' Elegant, but not all Elegant are
>extremely long-billed (females have smaller bills than males) and, on a bird
>of this age, the bill could well not be fully grown. Also, bill tapers
>regularly to a very fine and sharp point, which is more typical of elegans
>than of bengalensis.
......................
>Regards,
>Laurent
>
>
>Laurent Raty
>Brussels, Belgium
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Subject: Northeast Ohio Gulls
From: John Pogacnik <jpogacnik(AT)NCWEB.COM>
Date: 24 Mar 2001 7:50pm
This is to let everyone know that Vic has posted a couple of additional
shots of the first series of northeast Ohio gulls. I would also like to let
everyone know about some of the comments I received as some were sent
directly to me.
First a few comments on the first series of gulls from northeast Ohio. It
was difficult to get wing shots of these birds. For the most part the gulls
are feeding on fish embedded in the ice or washed up on shore. So needless
to say the birds are not flying much and are not offering many opportunities
for flight shots. If you want to sit patiently waiting for them to take off
or stretch their wings, then that is your best chance. Also I am shooting
with a handheld Nikon digital camera held up to the eyepiece of my Kowa
scope zoomed at 20x so essentially the shots are at 60x. Needless to say at
60x there is going to be compression. A bird in front of or in back of the
species shot may give a false sense of size.
Here is a tabulation on remarks about the four birds.
Bird #1- I have heard votes for Great Black-backed and Lesser Black-backed
Gulls. I received two comments from Norway stating that the bird was a male
of the intermedius race of Larus fuscus. One of the sticking points was the
size of the mirror in P-10. If you look very close at the sleeping bird you
can see a sliver of black near the tip. Consulting The Handbook of Bird
identification for Europe and the Western Palearctic by Beaman and Madge
1998,
"In flight, Lesser Black-bcked Gull typically shows different wingtip
pattern with one or at most two small white mirror spots in black wingtip
and only small white tips to the outer primaries. Great Black-backed
typically has much more white visible, with large white tips to outer
primaries and extensive white tip to outer primary merging with large white
mirror on second primary (but note, Lesser Black-backed sometimes has more
extensive white mirror on outer primary, merging with white tip)."
Grant's gull book also mentions this. One observer mentioned that the large
amount of white on primary P-10 is an uncommon variation that typically is
associated with large male Lesser Black-backed Gulls. A comparison shot of
this bird and a typical graelsii shot 15 minutes earlier from a similar
angle can be found at the addendum to the original page
at:(http://www.aves.net/birdnews/march-addenda.html). My vote goes with
Larus fuscus intermedius.
Bird #2- The consensus seems to go with possibly Larus a. argentatus, the
Scandanavian Herring Gull.
What is lacking is a good flight shot. A view of a partial underwing shot
looks very good for this race ( also see the addendum page listed above). I
viewed the bird in flight and the wingtip pattern looked good when compared
with the Jonsson Alula article on Yellow-legged Gulls which shows various
shots of mainly yellow-legged argentatus. An interesting field mark for
argentatus as stated by a number of contributors was the drooping wings. In
the shots of the Headlands bird and in many argentatus photos I have looked
at this is visible. What to look for is the area of gray below the tertial
crescent. Look at the Headlands bird and compare it with shots of
argentatus elsewhere. A good shot can be found at this page:
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Jungle/7550/Gulllinks.html My vote for
this bird is Larus a. argentatus.
Bird #3- The vast majority feel that this is an American Herring Gull.
There was also a suggestion for Herring x Glaucous hybrid. What was
interesting was whether it was a 1st or 2nd year bird.
I agree with the majority, my vote is Larus argenteus smithsonianus, 1st
year.
Bird #4- This bird got some immediate response then little afterwards. The
vast majority felt that it wasn't a California Gull due to mantle and eye
paleness and bill shape. A response from someone familiar with both races
said that the mantle shade and size of the bird was close for albertaensis
but the sticking point was the paler than normal eye and the leg color.
Evidently the winter leg color of this race is usually yellow.
Unfortunately the eye color in the photos may be a little misleading. In
the field, the eye did appear dark. Other views of the bird shows this. I
think that the eye was dark, but not as dark as a California should be but
it was definitely not pale.
Some felt that it was an odd Herring. The question I ask is if you were in
an area where Herring was rare and California was common would you ever call
this a Herring Gull? I doubt it. I would be hard pressed to explain a
Herring adult with gray-green legs, and a partial black ring around the bill
coupled with the red spot. While the eye is not very dark, it is dark and it
is not the typical pale yellow of Herring. In my years of gull watching I
only remeber seeing two bird that may have been adult Herrings with clear
dark eyes. I have seen a few with pale eyes with some dark speckling.
My vote on this one is, unidentified. I personally would lean toward a
Herring x California hybrid. I think this would answer a few of the
questions about why its not a typical Herring or California.
John Pogacnik
4765 Lockwood Road
Perry, OH 44081
(440) 259-2751
jpogacnik(AT)ncweb.com
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Subject: Canada Goose suspecies
From: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)LINKNET.KITSAP.LIB.WA.US>
Date: 24 Mar 2001 11:38pm
HI ALL:
A couple of months ago I mentioned seeing a small, pale subspecies of
Canada Goose here on Bainbridge Island, WA. After doing some research I
narrowed it down to either B.c.parvipes (Lesser Canada Goose)and B.c.
taverneri (Taverner's Canada Goose). I was wondering if anyone had info.
on field identification of the 2 subspecies and their status in WA State?
Also is the extinct subspecies formerly in Russia still considered a
valid subspecies?
Sincerely
Ian "Birdbooker" Paulsen
Bainbridge Is., WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
"Rallidae all the way"
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