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ID-FRONTIERS for April 22-30, 2001
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| More on the Spanish plover: do long-winged fulva
exist? | Ricard Gutierrez | Sun, 22 Apr 2001 | 4:03pm |
| Spanish Golden-Plover | Steven Mlodinow | Sun, 22 Apr 2001 | 5:12pm |
| Re: More on the Spanish plover: do long-winged
fulva exist? | James H. Barton | Sun, 22 Apr 2001 | 5:48pm |
| Re: More on the Spanish plover: do long-winged
fulva exist? | James H. Barton | Sun, 22 Apr 2001 | 6:26pm |
| Blackish Italian mystery gull | =?iso-8859-1?q?Menot | Mon, 23 Apr 2001 | 1:52am |
| Re: More on the Spanish plover... | John Walters | Mon, 23 Apr 2001 | 8:23am |
| Long-winged Pacfic GPs in Australia | James H. Barton | Mon, 23 Apr 2001 | 8:44am |
| Re: That Fernhill Blackbird | WAYNE WEBER | Mon, 23 Apr 2001 | 7:42pm |
| mystery birds | D. Heindel | Tue, 24 Apr 2001 | 9:06am |
| Re: mystery birds | Mike Patterson | Tue, 24 Apr 2001 | 12:13pm |
| Re: That Fernhill Blackbird | Alvaro Jaramillo | Tue, 24 Apr 2001 | 2:07pm |
| Re: TRICOLORED BLACKBIRD (?) AT FOREST GROVE,
OREGON (was: That Fernhill Blackbird) | WAYNE WEBER | Wed, 25 Apr 2001 | 8:55am |
| Tern Bill Question | Dave DeReamus | Wed, 25 Apr 2001 | 11:03am |
| Re: Tern Bill Question | Steve Hampton | Wed, 25 Apr 2001 | 11:54am |
| Re: Tern Bill Question (longish) | James H. Barton | Thu, 26 Apr 2001 | 7:33am |
| mystery birds | D. Heindel | Thu, 26 Apr 2001 | 10:32am |
| Re: mystery birds | Phil Pickering | Thu, 26 Apr 2001 | 12:22pm |
| "Mitch's" Warbler: auricular patch | James H. Barton | Thu, 26 Apr 2001 | 1:44pm |
| Re: "Mitch's" Warbler: auricular patch | Phil Pickering | Thu, 26 Apr 2001 | 3:57pm |
| Re: "Mitch's" Warbler: auricular patch | Glenn A dEntremont | Thu, 26 Apr 2001 | 6:22pm |
| Bird Images on the Internet | John Idzikowski | Fri, 27 Apr 2001 | 9:05am |
| Re: mystery birds | Martin Reid | Fri, 27 Apr 2001 | 9:32am |
| Re: 'Tern Bill Color' Responses | Dave DeReamus | Fri, 27 Apr 2001 | 11:09am |
| Charadrius plover | Michael Dossett | Fri, 27 Apr 2001 | 7:31pm |
| Re: Charadrius plover | Phil Pickering | Fri, 27 Apr 2001 | 9:28pm |
| Re: Charadrius plover | Phil Pickering | Fri, 27 Apr 2001 | 11:05pm |
| Charadrius | Gunter De Smet | Sat, 28 Apr 2001 | 4:57am |
| Charadrius Plover/web photos | Angus Wilson | Sat, 28 Apr 2001 | 9:09am |
| Re: Charadrius | Swmavocet(AT)AOL.COM | Sat, 28 Apr 2001 | 9:16am |
| Re: Charadrius plover | Phil Pickering | Sat, 28 Apr 2001 | 11:18am |
| Black-throated Green auricular patch | James H. Barton | Sat, 28 Apr 2001 | 1:31pm |
| Canada Goose subspecies | Steven Mlodinow | Sat, 28 Apr 2001 | 2:15pm |
| Barred Owl in CA | ian paulsen | Sat, 28 Apr 2001 | 2:16pm |
| Re: Barred Owl in CA | Joseph Morlan | Sat, 28 Apr 2001 | 2:50pm |
| Charadrius plover field marks | James H. Barton | Sat, 28 Apr 2001 | 4:06pm |
| Re: Charadrius | norman van swelm | Sat, 28 Apr 2001 | 3:57pm |
| Charadrius plover revisited | Michael Dossett | Sun, 29 Apr 2001 | 8:59pm |
| Re: Charadrius plover revisited | Peter Adriaens | Mon, 30 Apr 2001 | 5:09am |
| Re: Charadrius plover revisited | Phil Pickering | Mon, 30 Apr 2001 | 10:35am |
| Re: Charadrius plover revisited: voice | Rich Hoyer | Mon, 30 Apr 2001 | 11:23am |
| ID of Spotted X Eastern Towhee hybrids | Angus Wilson | Mon, 30 Apr 2001 | 12:20pm |
| Re: ID of Spotted X Eastern Towhee hybrids | Joseph Morlan | Mon, 30 Apr 2001 | 12:46pm |
| Re: Charadrius plover revisited: voice | KACastelein and DJLa | Mon, 30 Apr 2001 | 4:21pm |
| Re: Charadrius plover revisited: voice | Lethaby, Nick | Mon, 30 Apr 2001 | 4:41pm |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
|
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: More on the Spanish plover: do long-winged fulva
exist?
From: Ricard Gutierrez <GUTARB(AT)terra.es>
Date: 22 Apr 2001 4:03pm
Hello:
After my previous posting on the finding of an American Golden Plover
(P.dominica) in NE Spain , a 1st summer bird, a member of this forum quoted
the possibility of that bird being a long-winged Pacific GP (P.fulva) of the
Siberian populations.
As the issue seems interesting and there appear to be few available data on
such birds which would not be the usually seen in either USA or Europe
(then, where?), I have added another web page to the Rare Birds in Spain web
site (http://www.terra.es/personal3/gutarb ) with seven new photos of the
bird plus discussion on its ID.
It would be interesting to see what the people think on this particular bird
and on the long-winged fulva issue which would put more difficulties to the
id of the dominica/fulva pair.
Thank you for having a look
Ricard Gutiérrez
RBS
23.4.2001
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Spanish Golden-Plover
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 22 Apr 2001 5:12pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Greetings All
The Spanish bird has long primary projection beyond tertials and beyond tail.
During a mid March trip to Hawaii, I noted that virtually all of the PG
Plovers had long primary projection beyond tertials. A trip a month later
showed that these birds all had the expected short primary projection beyond
tertials. In March, many of the birds body plumage was similar to the Spanish
bird. In April, the birds were in full (or near full) alternate plumage.
Unfortunately, on the March trip I did not pay attention to primary
projection beyond tail.
What does this mean. Due to molt sequences, PG Plovers can show quite long
primary projection beyond tertials in March. Normally by mid-April this is
not so. However, the Spanish bird may not be moulting quite on normal
schedule. Connors, who did the work leading to these species being split,
could not ID 7% of alternate plumage birds in the hand, and this bird may
fall into that category.
Cheers
Steven Mlodinow
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: More on the Spanish plover: do long-winged
fulva exist?
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 22 Apr 2001 5:48pm
Hello, Ricard and friends. I can document long-winged .."Siberian
fulva".. from Russian sources, and also from two individuals observed on S.
Monomoy Island, MA, USA, one photographed, in Fall, 2000. .
In my opinion, despite the vehement opposition of two recognized
authorities, the photographed Monomoy bird is long-winged ..fulva.. not from
Siberia as we westerners classically think of it, but from central Russia.
My sources are two articles by the Russian ornithologist Gavrilov, which
I have had translated into English.
Please also see Martin Reid's web page (sorry I don't have the URL
immediately at hand.), where he shows long-winged fulvas and offers, in my
opinion, very intelligent thoughts on the probable migration patterns of
these birds.
I have evidence of their appearance in Australia in fall.
As a result of my continuing researches, I will state unequivocally that
"long wings" CANNOT be used to eliminate Pacific Golden Plover, >>P.
fulva<<.
Yours,
Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
Cambridge, MA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricard Gutierrez" <GUTARB(AT)terra.es>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 7:06 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] More on the Spanish plover: do long-winged fulva exist?
> Hello:
> After my previous posting on the finding of an American Golden Plover
> (P.dominica) in NE Spain , a 1st summer bird, a member of this forum
quoted
> the possibility of that bird being a long-winged Pacific GP (P.fulva) of
the
> Siberian populations.
> As the issue seems interesting and there appear to be few available data
on
> such birds which would not be the usually seen in either USA or Europe
> (then, where?), I have added another web page to the Rare Birds in Spain
web
> site (http://www.terra.es/personal3/gutarb ) with seven new photos of the
> bird plus discussion on its ID.
> It would be interesting to see what the people think on this particular
bird
> and on the long-winged fulva issue which would put more difficulties to
the
> id of the dominica/fulva pair.
>
> Thank you for having a look
>
> Ricard Gutiérrez
> RBS
> 23.4.2001
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: More on the Spanish plover: do long-winged
fulva exist?
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 22 Apr 2001 6:26pm
Friends, after examining the photos which Ricard shows, I would opine that
the bird is "short-winged" American GP, P. dominica. Ricard notes the ratio
of the bill length to the distance between the base of the bill and the back
of the eye. This is a character cited by Byrkjedal and Thompson, in "Tundra
Plovers" I would also have expected a longer, thicker bill for Pacific,
with noticeably more variation in thickness. Ricard also notes the
tibia/tarsus ratio. On Pacific, I would have expected a much taller bird
with tibia and tarsus much more nearly equivalent in length.
I hesitate to comment on the plumage of a bird clearly not in breeding
plumage; however, the internal markings of the evident dorsal feathers may
bear investigation.
Yours,
Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
Cambridge, MA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricard Gutierrez" <GUTARB(AT)terra.es>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 7:06 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] More on the Spanish plover: do long-winged fulva exist?
> Hello:
> After my previous posting on the finding of an American Golden Plover
> (P.dominica) in NE Spain , a 1st summer bird, a member of this forum
quoted
> the possibility of that bird being a long-winged Pacific GP (P.fulva) of
the
> Siberian populations.
> As the issue seems interesting and there appear to be few available data
on
> such birds which would not be the usually seen in either USA or Europe
> (then, where?), I have added another web page to the Rare Birds in Spain
web
> site (http://www.terra.es/personal3/gutarb ) with seven new photos of the
> bird plus discussion on its ID.
> It would be interesting to see what the people think on this particular
bird
> and on the long-winged fulva issue which would put more difficulties to
the
> id of the dominica/fulva pair.
>
> Thank you for having a look
>
> Ricard Gutiérrez
> RBS
> 23.4.2001
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Blackish Italian mystery gull
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Menotti=20Passarella?= <aster_men(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 23 Apr 2001 1:52am
UNIDENTIFIED Larus sp. found on 23-24 April 1995 at
the refuse damp of Abbadia San Salvatore near Siena,
Tuscany, Italy, by G. Chiancianesi. Blackish
appearance with dark legs and dull-orange bill.
Apparently, the plumage did not look coal- or
oil-polluted and the bird was able to fly. When
flying, the gull shown darker wing tips.
Two photos are shown here:
http://www.ebnitalia.it/rarities/mel_gull.htm
Menotti Passarella
Italy
BIRDING GULLS:
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/birdinggulls
ITALIAN GULLS
http://oystman.tripod.com/italiangulls/
______________________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: More on the Spanish plover...
From: John Walters <lizandjohn(AT)EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: 23 Apr 2001 8:23am
Ricard Gutierrez wrote:
> ...a long-winged Pacific GP (P.fulva) of the Siberian populations.
> As the issue seems interesting and there appear to be few available data on
> such birds which would not be the usually seen in either USA or Europe
> (then, where?)
Can't help you much with your ID problem, but some of the Siberian
population of P. fulva winter in Hawaii (and I suppose the other
Pacific islands), where they run around lawns and golf courses like
robins.
John Walters
Bonita, CA
lizandjohn(AT)earthlink.net
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Long-winged Pacfic GPs in Australia
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 23 Apr 2001 8:44am
Friends, long-winged Pacifics have been reported from Australia in fall,
where, of course, observers are hoping for American GPs.
Yours,
Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
Cambridge, MA
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Walters" <lizandjohn(AT)EARTHLINK.NET>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] More on the Spanish plover...
> Ricard Gutierrez wrote:
>
> > ...a long-winged Pacific GP (P.fulva) of the Siberian populations.
> > As the issue seems interesting and there appear to be few available data
on
> > such birds which would not be the usually seen in either USA or Europe
> > (then, where?)
> Can't help you much with your ID problem, but some of the Siberian
> population of P. fulva winter in Hawaii (and I suppose the other
> Pacific islands), where they run around lawns and golf courses like
> robins.
>
> John Walters
> Bonita, CA
> lizandjohn(AT)earthlink.net
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: That Fernhill Blackbird
From: WAYNE WEBER <contopus(AT)HOME.COM>
Date: 23 Apr 2001 7:42pm
Greg and OBOLinks,
Sorry, Greg, I beg to differ strongly that the song and behavior of
this bird "proves that it is not a Tricolored". Behavior-- including
song-- tends to be much more variable, in most birds, than plumage and
morphology. From the photo (thanks for providing the link), this bird
is clearly and obviously a Tricolored.
Yes, the songs of the two species tend to be quite different, but that
proves nothing. I once saw a Savannah Sparrow that sang a perfect
Horned Lark song-- obviously a mistake in learning. Such atypical
songs are rare, but far from unknown. The bird could have imprinted on
the wrong song without having been hatched in a Red-wing nest-- if it
was raised in a colony with many pairs of Red-wings and only a few
Tricolors. The size of the area defended is another thing that could
easily vary from the normal.
Could the bird be a hybrid? Extremely unlikely. First of all, as you
point out, no hybrids between the two species are known. Second, the
plumage and structure, by all accounts, are 100% Tricolored. If there
were some Red-winged genes in this bird, surely the bird would appear
intermediate in at least one character.
My conclusion? This bird is a Tricolored Blackbird which happens to be
singing an aberrant song.
I've taken the liberty of copying your message and my response to the
ID-FRONTIERS group. Perhaps someone who is more familiar than I am
with Tricolored Blackbirds will have some helpful comments.
Wayne C. Weber
Kamloops, BC, Canada
contopus(AT)home.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Gillson <greg(AT)THEBIRDGUIDE.COM>
To: Multiple recipients of list OBOL <OBOL(AT)BOBO.NWS.ORST.EDU>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 6:53 PM
Subject: That Fernhill Blackbird
> I have heard from several people about the purported Fernhill
Wetland's
> Tricolored Blackbird.
>
> No one will argue that the plumage is typically Tricolored: shiny
black,
> deep maroon-red epaulet bordered with white, very thin bill, pointed
wings.
> Take a look at this photo of it:
> http://www.teleport.com/~guide/gif_dir/tricolor_1.jpg
>
> However, there is absolutely no difference in song between it and
the local
> Red-winged Blackbirds, it is very liquid and melodious--not at all
"braying"
> (Terres, 1980, Audubon Encyclopedia of NA Birds).
>
> The song and the fact that it is vigorously defending a territory
> approximately 50 feet by 30 feet (1500 square feet) against all
other
> blackbirds, proves it is not a Tricolored, which may have a
territory of
> about 6 square feet.
>
> I urge people go take another critical look at this bird. No hurry;
it'll be
> there all summer. But when will it stop singing?
>
> So, is it a hybrid? Perhaps. There are no known records listed in
Terres.
> Could an egg have ended up in the wrong nest and a Tricolored
imprinted on a
> Red-wing? Maybe. Either scenario seems unlikely, as the mating
schemes are
> so dissimilar (territorial versus colonial). But something unusual
has
> happened with this bird.
>
> Now, do you count it on your list? I'm not going there... that's up
to you.
>
> Greg Gillson
> Cornelius, Oregon
> greg(AT)thebirdguide.com
> http://www.teleport.com/~guide/
> http://thebirdguide.com/pelagics/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: mystery birds
From: "D. Heindel" <birdfish(AT)earthlink.net>
Date: 24 Apr 2001 9:06am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hello bird brains....
I have three mystery birds posted on my website
I am hoping some of you can enlighten me about....
They are at:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/pelagics/MYSTERIES.html
Any ID comments or ideas would be appreciated.
Thanking you in advance,
Mitch
Mitch Heindel
birdfish(AT)earthlink.net
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: mystery birds
From: Mike Patterson <celata(AT)pacifier.com>
Date: 24 Apr 2001 12:13pm
Maybe?
http://columbia-pacific.interrain.org/ahscience/shore_photo/wiph.jpg
> "D. Heindel" wrote:
>
> Hello bird brains....
>
> I have three mystery birds posted on my website
> I am hoping some of you can enlighten me about....
>
> They are at:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/pelagics/MYSTERIES.html
>
> Any ID comments or ideas would be appreciated.
>
> Thanking you in advance,
> Mitch
>
> Mitch Heindel
> birdfish(AT)earthlink.net
>
>
--
Mike Patterson Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo,
Astoria, OR it is not enough to be persecuted
celata(AT)pacifier.com by an unkind establishment,
you must also be right.
---Robert Park
http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: That Fernhill Blackbird
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <alvaro(AT)SIRIUS.COM>
Date: 24 Apr 2001 2:07pm
At 07:41 PM 4/23/01 -0700, WAYNE WEBER wrote:
>Greg and OBOLinks,
>
>Sorry, Greg, I beg to differ strongly that the song and behavior of
>this bird "proves that it is not a Tricolored". Behavior-- including
>song-- tends to be much more variable, in most birds, than plumage and
>morphology. From the photo (thanks for providing the link), this bird
>is clearly and obviously a Tricolored.
I think one does have to approach the question of the identity of this bird
with an open mind, and attempt to err on the conservative side. I agree
with Wayne that behaviour and particularly song tends to be much more
variable, at least in oscines, than plumage characteristics. But I do
disagree that the bird is clearly and obviously a Tricolored Blackbird,
other than the apparent epaulet colour what are we using to identify this
bird? The photo is not great (my apologies to the photographer) so one
can't see some other marks which would be useful in making the
identification. First of all, the bill structure is not clear, to me the
photo seems to show a bird with a bit of an overbite which may mean an
abnormal bill but that is far from certain. The plumage does not show any
blue iridescence, at least in this photo, and in good light and
particularly in direct comparison to normal Red-wings it should be obvious.
With good scope views the primary spacing patterns could be noted, but this
is not visible from the photos. Since wing formula is different in these
two species (see Pyle) it should show up on the primary stack, something
that I alluded to in the birding article on the ID of this species pair.
How about the epaulet? I do think it looks much better for Tricolored than
Red-winged Blackbird but given that the bird is not acting like a
Tricolored it makes me think twice about this feature. A lack of yellow
pigments in a Red-winged Blackbird could lead to this situation, making an
orange-red epaulet redder and a yellowish border whiter. If this bird does
not show a wing formula consistent with Tricolored Blackbird then I would
vote on a pigment abnormality to explain this bird.
>Yes, the songs of the two species tend to be quite different, but that
>proves nothing. I once saw a Savannah Sparrow that sang a perfect
>Horned Lark song-- obviously a mistake in learning. Such atypical
>songs are rare, but far from unknown.
True, but not in all birds. The likelihood a bird will learn the wrong song
is species dependent, in particular it is dependent on the manner in which
birds learn their songs and if they learn them at all. Brown-headed
Cowbirds innately 'know' how to sing a very potent (in terms of ability to
attract females) song. They alter this song, through social interactions
with other males, in order to sing a song that is consistent with their
level on a dominance hierarchy. White-crowned Sparrows (and other
sparrows?) are hatched with a song template that is not developed in the
least and is quite unlike the eventual song. They learn to sing their song
through listening to local males and practice until they get it right.
Since their template is almost a blank they could certainly learn an
entirely different song from their own. I have seen, in Alaska, a
Golden-crowned Sparrow giving a perfect gambell's White-crowned Sparrow
song. Now the cowbird is unlikely to learn an entirely incorrect song since
its template is much more strongly developed, only needing fine tuning to
get the right song. What do Red-wings and Tricoloreds do? Well, I don't
know but my guess is that it is closer to the cowbird model. I have not
ever heard blackbird 'sub-song' from immatures, while this is common in
sparrows. I am sure someone out there has studied the development of song
in Agelaius blackbirds, but I am not informed enough to know of any
references. Meadowlarks learn their song and will learn the wrong song in
some cases, but they do not learn their call notes these are innate. An
understanding of the call notes given by the Fernhill Blackbird would be
helpful in making the identification.
>The bird could have imprinted on
>the wrong song without having been hatched in a Red-wing nest-- if it
>was raised in a colony with many pairs of Red-wings and only a few
>Tricolors. The size of the area defended is another thing that could
>easily vary from the normal.
Tricolored and Red-winged Blackbirds are like night and day with respect to
territorial defence and breeding behaviour. I doubt that most of this is
learnt, it surely must be innate. Its not just song that Greg was alluding
to, but territoriality. Tricolored Blackbirds are not territorial. They are
the most strictly colonial landbird we have, now that the Passenger Pigeon
is not with us and therefore are unlikely to learn to show territorial
defence given that they do not anywhere in nature. I think the conservative
way to look at this problem (involving the least amounts of 'steps' in
order to arrive at some conclusion) is to think of this as an odd-looking
Red-winged Blackbird rather than a Tricolored Blackbird with wrong song,
and acquired territoriality.
>Could the bird be a hybrid? Extremely unlikely. First of all, as you
>point out, no hybrids between the two species are known. Second, the
>plumage and structure, by all accounts, are 100% Tricolored. If there
>were some Red-winged genes in this bird, surely the bird would appear
>intermediate in at least one character.
I would leave the hybrid theory to the last, and first explore if this is
not just an odd looking Red-winged Blackbird. Hybrids do occur in the
blackbirds, including intergeneric hybrids so its not impossible.
>My conclusion? This bird is a Tricolored Blackbird which happens to be
>singing an aberrant song.
>
>I've taken the liberty of copying your message and my response to the
>ID-FRONTIERS group. Perhaps someone who is more familiar than I am
>with Tricolored Blackbirds will have some helpful comments.
I am not sure my comments are all that helpful, since I can't say its one
or the other species. It is incredibly interesting though, and I hope that
the Oregon folks can reach a conclusion on this bird (could you catch it?)
and publish a note on this weirdo.
cheers,
Alvaro
Alvaro Jaramillo alvaro(AT)sirius.com
Biologist
San Francisco Bay Bird Observatory
P.O. Box 247
Alviso, CA 95002 http://www.sfbbo.org/
(408)-946-6548 Home of the California Fall Challenge!!
Birds of Chile and
New World Blackbirds at : http://www.sirius.com/~alvaro
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: TRICOLORED BLACKBIRD (?) AT FOREST GROVE,
OREGON (was: That Fernhill Blackbird)
From: WAYNE WEBER <contopus(AT)HOME.COM>
Date: 25 Apr 2001 8:55am
Dear Bird ID People,
I am forwarding the attached message from Tim Shelmerdine of Lake
Oswego, OR, USA which has some useful comments on the unusual
blackbird at the Fernhill Wetland in Forest Grove, Oregon. I am also
responding to some of Alvaro Jaramillo's comments in his message of
1:52 PM yesterday on my earlier message on the subject.
First of all, Alvaro feels uncertain of the bird's identity based on
the photo posted by Greg Gillson. I was basing my opinion that the
bird IS a Tricolored Blackbird on the description of characters
provided by various observers-- not just on the photo. I agree that it
would be very helpful if someone could get better photos of the bird.
It would also be helpful if someone could get a good-quality tape
recording of the song, especially in view of Tim's report that the
song is NOT identical to a Red-wing song.
Alvaro's suggestion that someone with a banding permit try to mist-net
the bird and examine it in the hand is also a good one-- if it is
feasible in this situation.
Like Alvaro, I am uncertain if anyone has studied song development in
Tricolored or Red-winged Blackbirds. However, I believe that the
"White-crowned Sparrow" model, in which (to quote Alvaro) "their
template is almost a blank [and] they could certainly learn an
entirely different song from their own" is far more common in
passerines than the "Brown-headed Cowbird" model.
Also, for those unfamiliar with bird distribution in the northwestern
USA, a Tricolored Blackbird is northwestern Oregon is not
spectacularly unusual. There have been small breeding colonies of
Tricoloreds for several years in the city of Portland and also near
Hermiston in NE Oregon, and a new colony was established in 1999 east
of Soap Lake in east-central Washington. Tricolored Blackbirds are
being reported more and more often in recent years in Washington and
northern Oregon.
I hope to see more information from Oregon observers on this unusual
blackbird, and an eventual resolution of its true identity.
Wayne C. Weber
Kamloops and Delta, BC, Canada
contopus(AT)home.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Shelmerdine <shelmert(AT)LOSWEGO.K12.OR.US>
To: Multiple recipients of list OBOL <OBOL(AT)BOBO.NWS.ORST.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: That Fernhill Blackbird
> Greg and OBOL
>
> I saw the bird Saturday afternoon and disagree with his conclusion.
>
> First, I agree that this bird is not a hybrid. As he says, the
plumage is
> consistent with Tricolored. The conclusion of territory size may be
a
> non-factor. Tricoloreds have a small, dense territory because of
their
> numbers. They generally move into marshes after Red-wings have
arrived and
> set up territories, evicting by sheer weight of numbers (Gordon
Orions
> mentioned this in one of his works on blackbirds). This density of
the
> territories is one of the factors that allows this to be a
successful
> strategy for them. I find it not at all unusual that a single
Tricolored
> would not be limited to a territory of normal size.
>
> Second, the song was indeed interesting. It was definitely not what
I have
> heard other Tricoloreds make. But absolutely no difference? I
heard at
> least one subtle difference: The Red-wings tended to produce a
slurred
> four note, typical Red-wing song. The Tricolored song was slightly
less
> rich and complex, never more than three notes while I was there. I
> actually felt that this bird may well have imprinted on a Red-wing.
After
> all, if it came from one of the local colonies, there are never huge
> numbers of Tricoloreds and specifically Tricolor males around
> anyway. Red-wings and Tricolors nest next to each other up here. I
think
> this bird may well have imprinted on the wrong species.
>
> Tim Shelmerdine
shelmert(AT)loswego.k12.or.us
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Tern Bill Question
From: Dave DeReamus <becard(AT)FAST.NET>
Date: 25 Apr 2001 11:03am
OK, Tern Lovers!
A ROSEATE TERN was observed by a birder in our area at Lake Minsi in
east-central PA on April 22nd along with a Common Tern. Since this would be
a VERY RARE record (there is only one hypothetical record of this species
from 1959 for our area), I asked him for more details. This is what I
received from him:
"The Roseate tern was not more than 50 yards off shore at the lake in good
light. It was pale all over and had a long white tail, no dark edges to it.
The bill was enirely black. The Common was close enough to get them both in
the field of view at the same time as they flew around the lake. The size
difference was minimal."
Now for more curiosity: Another birder reported a Forster's Tern (MUCH more
likely) at the same place on the same day.
My question is: How late in the year can Forster's Terns keep their
winter-plumaged black bill? Shouldn't the bill have its breeding colors by
now? The Sibley guide states the breeding plumage range of Forster's as
being March-August.
I realize that this will not solve my problem, but it would be nice to know
if this is a possibility at this time of year.
Thanks and Good birding,
Dave DeReamus
'Eastern PA Birdline' Compiler
Easton, PA
becard(AT)fast.net
Remember that birds can't read range maps!
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Tern Bill Question
From: Steve Hampton <SHAMPTON(AT)OSPR.DFG.CA.GOV>
Date: 25 Apr 2001 11:54am
I saw alternate plumaged Forster's with black bills and almost all black bills
last week at Malibu Lagoon, CA.
Steve Hampton
_____________________
Resource Economist
Office of Spill Prevention and Response
California Dept of Fish and Game
PO Box 944209
Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
-----------------------------------
(916) 323-4724 phone
(916) 324-8829 fax
>>> Dave DeReamus <becard(AT)FAST.NET> 04/25/01 11:01AM >>>
OK, Tern Lovers!
A ROSEATE TERN was observed by a birder in our area at Lake Minsi in
east-central PA on April 22nd along with a Common Tern. Since this would be
a VERY RARE record (there is only one hypothetical record of this species
from 1959 for our area), I asked him for more details. This is what I
received from him:
"The Roseate tern was not more than 50 yards off shore at the lake in good
light. It was pale all over and had a long white tail, no dark edges to it.
The bill was enirely black. The Common was close enough to get them both in
the field of view at the same time as they flew around the lake. The size
difference was minimal."
Now for more curiosity: Another birder reported a Forster's Tern (MUCH more
likely) at the same place on the same day.
My question is: How late in the year can Forster's Terns keep their
winter-plumaged black bill? Shouldn't the bill have its breeding colors by
now? The Sibley guide states the breeding plumage range of Forster's as
being March-August.
I realize that this will not solve my problem, but it would be nice to know
if this is a possibility at this time of year.
Thanks and Good birding,
Dave DeReamus
'Eastern PA Birdline' Compiler
Easton, PA
becard(AT)fast.net
Remember that birds can't read range maps!
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Tern Bill Question (longish)
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 26 Apr 2001 7:33am
Dave DeReamus wrote:
> OK, Tern Lovers!
>
> A ROSEATE TERN was observed by a birder in our area at Lake Minsi in
> east-central PA on April 22nd along with a Common Tern. Since this would be
> a VERY RARE record (there is only one hypothetical record of this species
> from 1959 for our area), I asked him for more details. This is what I
> received from him:
>
> "The Roseate tern was not more than 50 yards off shore at the lake in good
> light. It was pale all over and had a long white tail, no dark edges to it.
> The bill was enirely black. The Common was close enough to get them both in
> the field of view at the same time as they flew around the lake. The size
> difference was minimal."
SNIP SNIP SNIP
Dave and Friends,
For many years, I've studied Roseate and Common Terns side by side in all
plumages on N. Monomoy and S. Beach, in Chatham, MA. In my opinion, the
>>length and shape<< of the Roseate's bill is distinctive. The bill appears
longer and the lower mandible slightly decurved. The bill also appears
thinner,
and to come to a sharp point. By way of analogy, think of oriole sp., such as
the bird portrayed on the cover of ..Birding.. for February, 2001.
In spring, people here in N.E. generally look for a small, pale sterna tern
with a long tail and an entirely black bill. Indeed, a classic adult with a
pale body, long tail, all-black bill and rosy breast is a very pretty sight.
But not all individuals are classics. Many occur with >>two-toned<< bills,
like
Common Terns. Then the length and shape of the bill becomes an important
indicator of ID.
Your bird certainly sounds like a Roseate, with its long tail. But an
all-black bill hardly makes a case for that species.
You might ask your observer to describe what he saw of the distribution of
black
and gray on the leading and trailing edges of the wing of his bird, both from
above and from below, by comparison with the distribution of those same colors
on the Common Tern, when they were flying together.
You might also ask about the apparent presence or absence of contrast
between the tail, the rump and the back. How, for example, did your observer
eliminate Forster's Tern, which also has a long tail and pale wings?
Every year, when I go out to look at small sterna terns for the first time
since October, and when the sun is shining brightly, making all the small terns
on the beach look pale, I find myself tempted to turn Commons into Roseates
solely on the basis of apparent tail length. We practically never get adult
Forster's in spring.
I hope this helps.
Yours,
Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
Cambridge, MA
>
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: mystery birds
From: "D. Heindel" <birdfish(AT)earthlink.net>
Date: 26 Apr 2001 10:32am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi all,
Just to give you an update on some of the responses.....
First, the first bird IS a yellow-legged peep/stint.
One response has been Least Sandpiper, strectched
out ready to fly. Some 20+ have been NO WAY
is it a Least Sppr, with comments like: not even
one put on Lurch's rack, or not even one raised
with a personal trainer could achieve this pose and
or posture. Many have suggested things like Wilson's
Phalarope, Reeve, and other "tringid" type pipers.
Did anyone ever look at a Least, and think
Tringid? This was the birds normal relaxed pose.
It was not an alert posture, or ready to fly. It was
nearly always like this, walking on its toes, not heels,
with long thin neck and legs, with tiny head.
I would appreciate more comments on this bird !!!
Bird 2, the warbler has a dizzying array of ID votes:
1 for - Black-throated Green
3 for - Blackburnian
2 for - Black-thrtd Gray
6+ for - Townsend's
Here too I would appreciate more comments, if you
haven't already...... Please have a look at:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/pelagics/MYSTERIES.html
fallout happens,
Mitch
Mitch Heindel
birdfish(AT)earthlink.net
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: mystery birds
From: Phil Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 26 Apr 2001 12:22pm
Referring to the warbler -
Both Townsend's and B-t Green show a contrasting pale crescent
under the eye, but I have never seen a Townsend's that showed an
auricular patch that had the solid borders and contrasting paler
"hollow" inner area that Mitch's bird shows. Even immature Townsend's
seem to consistently have solid-looking, evenly colored auriculars.
Conversely, I have never seen a photo of any age B-t Green where this
pattern was not evident. I suppose an atypical Townsend's could show
this, but considering the location I don't see any reason to try to make
this into a Townsend's.
The facial pattern also doesn't seem right for B-t Gray or Blackburnian
to me. Blackburnian seems close, but I think they aren't suppose to
have contrasting inner auriculars either (although I can't say anything
from personal experience). B-t Green seems to be the best all around
fit for facial pattern to me.
With B/W photos you have to keep in mind that the film handles
contrast differently than color film - apparent contrast between colors
might be increased or decreased by how the different colors register
on the film. In fact, photographers working in B/W often use
colored filters to manipulate contrast. I strongly suspect this bird
is a 1st-fall female B-t Green with the apparent contrast between
yellow and olive in the face/crown increased by effects of the photo.
Cheers,
Phil Pickering
Lincoln City, Oregon
philliplc(AT)harborside.com
>Bird 2, the warbler has a dizzying array of ID votes:
1 for - Black-throated Green
3 for - Blackburnian
2 for - Black-thrtd Gray
6+ for - Townsend's
Here too I would appreciate more comments, if you
haven't already...... Please have a look at:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/pelagics/MYSTERIES.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: "Mitch's" Warbler: auricular patch
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 26 Apr 2001 1:44pm
Mitch and friends, in my experience, the auricular patch of
Black-throated Green is so pale that under many lighting conditions you
have to look for it. I find it difficult to imagine that any
photographic process could darken the auricular face patch of a BTGW so
intensely as to turn it black, without simultaneously darkening the
whole face in like manner. Mitch's bird shows very evident contrast
between the auricular patch and the rest of the face.
Townsend's and Hermit both occur in Massachusetts, Townsend's much
more frequently. The location of Mitch's bird should not be taken as
an objection to Townsend's.
Yours,
Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
Cambridge, MA.
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: "Mitch's" Warbler: auricular patch
From: Phil Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 26 Apr 2001 3:57pm
I'm only going by photos I've viewed vs. James' personal experience,
but I still have to respectfully disagree. As an example check out Joe
Morlan's Sept. 2000 photo quiz, which most (although not all) concluded
was an immature B-t Green -
http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~jmorlan/sep00.htm
Note how the auricular/face contrast seems to vary between the
3 photos. In particular note the right photo, which shows the most
contrast. I have experience using black and white, and in my opinion
a black/white version of this photo could easily show at least as much
auricular/face contrast as is evident in Mitch's photo. In black/white
the yellow would look closer to white and the olive would look closer
to black. As James says, the strong contrast in this photo may be quite
atypical (perhaps it's due to the body/head posture scrunching the facial
feathers) but it at least shows how photos can be misleading in this
respect. I've also seen other color photos of B-t Green that would show
strong auricular contrast in black/white. I think quite a bit of it also
depends
on the lighting. A contrast increase this intense - with different colors going
different directions, is perhaps counterintuitive, but that's the way
B/W (and sometimes other photo or scanning processes) can work.
While I can't conclusively rule out Townsend's for Mitch's bird, the main
point I wanted to make with my previous post was that a Townsend's
most typically would show a quite solid look to the auriculars, while
the dark-bordered, hollow look is more typical (to a variable extent)
with B-t Green. I don't think this look is an illusion created by the photo
because the under-eye crescent is visible and shows similar
contrast to the auricular borders.
Also, although it's probably impossible to tell for sure from Mitch's one
photo, it looks to me like there's a dark area on the lower throat
and central breast that extends down too far for Townsend's.
Unfortunately, the bird is captured in a really odd posture, making it
very hard to judge it's patterning.
Cheers,
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: James H. Barton <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Date: Thursday, April 26, 2001 2:03 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] "Mitch's" Warbler: auricular patch
> Mitch and friends, in my experience, the auricular patch of
>Black-throated Green is so pale that under many lighting conditions you
>have to look for it. I find it difficult to imagine that any
>photographic process could darken the auricular face patch of a BTGW so
>intensely as to turn it black, without simultaneously darkening the
>whole face in like manner. Mitch's bird shows very evident contrast
>between the auricular patch and the rest of the face.
>
> Townsend's and Hermit both occur in Massachusetts, Townsend's much
>more frequently. The location of Mitch's bird should not be taken as
>an objection to Townsend's.
>
> Yours,
>
> Jim Barton
> redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
> Cambridge, MA.
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: "Mitch's" Warbler: auricular patch
From: Glenn A dEntremont <gdentremont(AT)JUNO.COM>
Date: 26 Apr 2001 6:22pm
I disagree with the below description. The Black-throated Green always
shows a darkening in the face. The pale patch in the middle, the
apparrent grayness of the patch with the side streaking all point to
immature Black-throated Green female. Look at Dunn's Warblers on page
69, the third bird down on the right side.
Glenn
On Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:43:44 -0400 "James H. Barton"
<redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET> writes:
> Mitch and friends, in my experience, the auricular patch of
> Black-throated Green is so pale that under many lighting conditions
> you
> have to look for it. I find it difficult to imagine that any
> photographic process could darken the auricular face patch of a BTGW
> so
> intensely as to turn it black, without simultaneously darkening the
> whole face in like manner. Mitch's bird shows very evident
> contrast
> between the auricular patch and the rest of the face.
>
> Townsend's and Hermit both occur in Massachusetts, Townsend's
> much
> more frequently. The location of Mitch's bird should not be taken
> as
> an objection to Townsend's.
>
> Yours,
>
> Jim Barton
> redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
> Cambridge, MA.
Glenn d'Entremont
gdentremont(AT)juno.com
Stoughton, MA
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Bird Images on the Internet
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 27 Apr 2001 9:05am
The following comments are not posted in response to any recent discussion
here concerning specific images of unidentified birds on websites but the
mild controversy has prompted me to follow up on my message below posted
here in March concerning a male Barrow's Goldeneye initially seen rather
poorly by many observers in Milwaukee.
Comments by experienced field people as well as the results of the first 3
digitals taken of this bird led us to look at this bird as a possible
hybrid. I received 6 responses from very competent and obviously experienced
observers from IDFrontiers ALL affirming that the bird was a hybrid of some
sort. The bird lingered until April 19 and was quite approachable and
excellent digitals were taken; you can view the initial 3 shots followed by
the recent shots at
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1596768&a=12259089 (photos
4 through 12 in the album; 4-6 are the initial posts; all were taken with a
digital camera at 960X1280 through 12X Leica Ultras)
Is there any question that this bird is anything but a typical Barrow's? The
first three shots were poor because of slight over-exposure and distance
which flared the whites and blurred shapes. The bird's behavior and
positioning may have contributed to what was seen as well. These shots
should have never been posted in the first place, but if this this bird had
moved on quickly this would of course have been our only hard documentation
for this bird. The lesson is not entirely new; we have had these sorts of
problems with grainy, high speed Ektachrome slide documentations since the
70's, but the technology is so much quicker and the editing power of the
graphic software can stretch images beyond their appropriate limit and it is
easy to load the Net with graphics.
Images of birds coming from consumer grade digital video captures say in
the 200X300 range, often less (a relatively common source of bird images
currently- the digiscopers using Nikon digital cameras have it right),
should be posted as such (probably about 2 by 3 inches max on a 15" monitor)
and not enlarged as added pixels can easily tell us lies about the true
identification characters we must rely upon. Editing for color should never
be done and only minor enhancement for contrast and gamma-brightness should
be necessary because of the flatness of most digital images. We should all
be aware that many of these cameras do not represent all colors evenly and
color aberration through and around "slits" from foreground objects is
common just as it is in a cheap pair of binoculars. The Barrow's images were
not enlarged at all but simply display the shortcomings of flare and pixel
distortion with distance even with a 1.3 MPixel image such as these using
excellent quality optics. As the capture size from the consumer grade
digital video increases and users stick to the limitations of their images
when editing we will have fewer problems, but all shots should be
technically regarded initially as well as studied for identifying characters
before we take one side or another off the fence. It is interesting to note
that the old phototechnical labels found on all old magazine pictures is now
absent from the shots on the Net which require them most.
John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
----- Original Message -----
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)uwm.edu>
To: <birdwg01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 11:33 AM
Subject: Barrow's Goldeneye
> A male Barrow's Goldeneye has been present in the Milwaukee Harbor for 5
> days; this species is quite rare in the state and few observers here are
> familar with any geographical or individual variation. There has been some
> suggestion that this bird may be a hybrid with Common as the facial
crescent
> seems large and the black "boa" onto the breast seems reduced. Iridescence
> on the head shows both green and purple in good sun. Three fair digitals
are
> posted in a photopoint album at
>
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1596768&a=12259089
>
> Thanks for your attention and comments.
>
> John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: mystery birds
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 27 Apr 2001 9:32am
Dear all,
Regarding the mystery peep at Mitch's web page:-
From this photo the bird is unidentifiable. What Mitch seems coy about
suggesting is that this might be a Long-toed Stint; it may well be one,
but that's as far as one can, go based on this image. There is so much we
cannot see about the underparts (due to image overexposure), plus assuming
it to be a juv (which is a large assumption, but one based on probability)
the supercilia seem to meet above the bill, and the upperparts look
extremely uniform, lacking any evidence of white "braces" or of wing
coverts with contrastingly pale whitish/creamy fringes (although a small
minority of LTST can have rustier fringes approaching that of LESA) - but
all this is speculative, due to the lack of clear data in the image.
So, it's probably a LESA or a LTST - but there's no way to be sure which
one......one that got away; I have a large list of those too :-)
Martin
At 4/26/2001 10:31 AM -0700, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Just to give you an update on some of the responses.....
>
>First, the first bird IS a yellow-legged peep/stint.
>One response has been Least Sandpiper, strectched
>out ready to fly. Some 20+ have been NO WAY
>is it a Least Sppr, with comments like: not even
>one put on Lurch's rack, or not even one raised
>with a personal trainer could achieve this pose and
>or posture. Many have suggested things like Wilson's
>Phalarope, Reeve, and other "tringid" type pipers.
>Did anyone ever look at a Least, and think
>Tringid? This was the birds normal relaxed pose.
>It was not an alert posture, or ready to fly. It was
>nearly always like this, walking on its toes, not heels,
>with long thin neck and legs, with tiny head.
>
>I would appreciate more comments on this bird !!!
>
>Bird 2, the warbler has a dizzying array of ID votes:
>
>1 for - Black-throated Green
>3 for - Blackburnian
>2 for - Black-thrtd Gray
>6+ for - Townsend's
>
>Here too I would appreciate more comments, if you
>haven't already...... Please have a look at:
>
><http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/pelagics/MYSTERIES.html>http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/pelagics/MYSTERIES.html
>
>fallout happens,
>Mitch
>Mitch Heindel
><mailto:birdfish(AT)earthlink.net>birdfish(AT)earthlink.net
>
>
Martin Reid
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com or http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: 'Tern Bill Color' Responses
From: Dave DeReamus <becard(AT)FAST.NET>
Date: 27 Apr 2001 11:09am
Hi all,
Thanks for all the responses to my "tern bill color" question. MANY
responded that Forster's may still show a black bill at this time of year.
As it 'terns' out, this same bird was seen from several feet away by another
birder in a kayak. She said that it had a very small yellow section at the
base of the bill that wouldn't have been seen by the observer on shore with
10x binoculars. Case closed!
As Benny Hill said, "Learning all the time!"
Good birding,
Dave DeReamus
'Eastern PA Birdline' Compiler
Easton, PA
becard(AT)fast.net
Remember that birds can't read range maps!
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Charadrius plover
From: Michael Dossett <phainopepla(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 27 Apr 2001 7:31pm
Hi Everyone,
I'm in somewhat of a quandry over a bird I saw earlier
this week, here in Seattle, Washington. At first I
wrote it off as a Semipalmated Plover. However, when
it took off and flew across the pond, it made a call
which I had never heard a Semipalmated make. It was a
very soft call, and had a rolling kind of quality to
it. Very strange noise, somewhat similar to calls I
have heard Western and Least Sandpipers make.
At any rate, I took several photos of the bird. From
the photos, I feel that a pretty strong case could be
made for calling it a Common Ringed Plover, but since
the call I heard is not consistent with the tapes I
have of Common Ringed Plover, I would very much like
some opinions on this bird. The pictures can be
viewed at:
http://students.washington.edu/idaeus/plover.htm The
photos show that there is a large white supercilium,
as well as what could be called a wide black breast
band. Any ideas?
Michael Dossett
Bothell, Washington (NE of Seattle)
Phainopepla(AT)yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Charadrius plover
From: Phil Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 27 Apr 2001 9:28pm
Michael's bird is intriguing, but I'm not sure if the supercilium is
defined enough for a Common Ringed. It also seems closer to Semi
structurally to me. Based on some limited study of Common Ringed
photos, my impression is that they tend to look chunkier bodied, and
also their heads tend to look larger in proportion to their bills than this
bird. Perhaps the comparative difference in avg. head size between the
two species is greater than the avg. difference in bill size. This bird
seems fairly small-headed compared to it's bill size - giving it more of a
Semi jizz to my eye. I claim no expertise with Common Ringed (other
than in trying to turn Semi's into them) so these comments are offered
as possible things to look at more than anything.
As another uneducated suggestion, perhaps the relatively diffuse
patterning and extent of the white supercilium is indicative of a
1st-spring Semi, or perhaps a Semi that has yet to complete it's
pre-alternate molt.
Not sure if this helps, but some photos of Common Ringed are at -
http://home-4.worldonline.nl/~t010660/birds/images/bbplevier.jpg
http://www.tsuru-bird.net/plovers/plover_common-ringed1.jpg
http://www.gla.ac.uk/~gbza22/jpegs/birds/rplov.jpg
Cheers,
Phil Pickering
Lincoln City, Oregon
philliplc(AT)harborside.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Charadrius plover
From: Phil Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 27 Apr 2001 11:05pm
I should have added that the main difference in facial pattern - solid
black extending well behind the eye in Common Ringed, is visible in
all three web photos I referred to. Semipalmated tend to have less
solid black and are more brownish behind the eye, which seems to
be the case with the Seattle bird.
Cheers,
Phil
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Charadrius
From: Gunter De Smet <gunter.de.smet(AT)PANDORA.BE>
Date: 28 Apr 2001 4:57am
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hello,
Although two features (rather wide breast band + white patch =
above/behind the eye) may remind of Ringed Plover, I feel confident that =
Michael's plover is a Semipalmated Plover. The plumages of Ringed and =
Semipalmated Plover are extremely similar. Most features of this species =
pair are subtle and variable, but the following combination is in favour =
of Semipalmated Plover : 1. stubby bill; 2. domed head (baby-faced =
look); 3. fairly obvious orbital ring (may be obvious in adult male =
Ringed Plover as well); 4. narrow loral stripe (except for the =
narrowness, there may also be some subtle differences in shape); 5. =
narrow white collar; 6. perhaps rather narrow white forehead in side =
view (not so in frontal view); 7. brown rear ear-coverts; 8. the whole =
body should perhaps be slightly bulckier or stockier in Ringed Plover. I =
wouldn't liken the call of Ringed Plover to Western or Least Sandpiper =
(it is more a soft tooLEE, keeIP, or tooIP with the emphasis on the =
second syllable). As to the age of the bird, most 2nd calendar year =
Semipalmated Plovers do not attain full breeding plumage in spring. If =
it is an advanced 2nd calendar year bird, I wouldn't know how to age it =
confidently on these photographs. Living in Belgium, Ringed Plovers =
(hiaticula) can be seen regularly this time of the year. The smaller =
tundrae birds should be on their way (mainly in May/early June). =
Surprisingly no specimens of tundrae have ever been collected in =
Belgium, but we do get flocks of small, dark Ringed Plovers (often =
coinciding with migration of Sanderlings or other arctic waders). The =
"jizz" of Michael's plover is wrong for both races of Ringed Plover.
Yours,
Gunter De Smet.
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Charadrius Plover/web photos
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 28 Apr 2001 9:09am
Relating this plover to recent discussions about the problems with identifying
birds from single photos, it is interesting how different certain key features
appear between individual pictures. I must commend Michael Dossett for posting
multiple images <http://students.washington.edu/idaeus/plover.htm>, as I think
this is a necessity. Given the subtle nature of the ID, it might also be worth
typing out his field notes or providing figure legends that contrast each photo
with his own impressions of the bird in life.
Here are a couple of examples of 'variation' that caught my eye: In the
slightly
over-exposed shots, the supercilium seems more extensive than in correctly
exposed shots (compare photos 1 and 2 or 4 and 5). Similarly, the dark bar over
the bill appears to differ in thickness depending on photographic angle
(compare
photos 2 and 6).
Although far from expert on charadrius plover ID, I'm afraid I also lean
towards
Semi-palmated for this bird. Certainly, Semi's can be quite variable (more so
than implied by the field guides) and I feel the identification of Common
Ringed
Plover in the lower 48 would require a whole suite of convincing features.
**************************************
Angus Wilson
New York City
wilsoa02(AT)endeavor.med.nyu.edu
Check out the "Ocean Wanderers" bird ID web site.
http://www.best.com/~petrel/index.html
**************************************
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Charadrius
From: Swmavocet(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 28 Apr 2001 9:16am
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With apologies to the photographers, I took the liberty of combining pics
into a frame-by-frame comparison:
http://members.aol.com/swmavocet/webfiles/plover_comparison.jpg
A few things that strike me are:
- the chunkier Common Ringed (maybe it just had more migration fat on board?)
- the smaller white forehead on CR
- the "upward" turn of the breastband in front forming a distinct "V" on the
lower edge (may be poorly shown on Semi. pic)
- what appear to be wings shorter than the tail on CR vs. almost identical
length on Semi.
Thanks for sharing, Michael. I feel I learned something today!
Steve McConnell
Trussville, AL
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Charadrius plover
From: Phil Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 28 Apr 2001 11:18am
This page features 2 more nice Common Ringed photos plus the
only (apparent) side by side shot I've seen. I can't read French, so
I could only guess where this was taken (eastern Canada? vagrant
Semi in France?) Maybe someone out there can pinpoint the location -
http://iquebec.ifrance.com/passionplume/RingedPlover.htm
Some of the differences that Gunter listed are comparable in this
photo. I've also noticed that a key difference in body shape seems
to be that Common Ringed consistently have more of a barrel-chest
than Semi (giving them the chunkier look).
Cheers,
Phil
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Black-throated Green auricular patch
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 28 Apr 2001 1:31pm
Hello, Glenn, Phil and friends. Let me begin by saying that
Glenn is a long-time MA birder whose judgment I have respected for 30
years. I believe he has been looking at BTGW in MA at least since l969,
about as long as I have.
Dunn and Garrett (to whom Glenn refers, see below) show the
auricular patch of male and female adults and first fall males and females
to be of nearly equivalent intensity under the controlled lighting
conditions of the printed page. My experience with varied lighting
conditions in the field is that the intensity of the auricular patch varies
differentially between males, females and First Fall birds.
The auricular patch of Spring and Fall males can usually be
seen in most lights. But bright, direct sun can wash it out, down to a
trace that you have to look for. By contrast, bright, direct sun isn't
needed to wash out the auricular patch of Spring females and first Fall
males and females, also down a to a trace. A generally bright day will do
it, or glare from moisture in the air, or sunlight reflected from the
surface of leaves.
To be sure, the patch can be found if you look for it. But my
contention was and is that the patch is sufficiently pale that you do
have to look for it, under many lighting conditions.
Phil's point about the two-toned appearance of the patch on
Mitch's bird, vs. the solid appearance of the patch on a Townsend's
Warbler, remains well-taken. Glenn remarks on this two-toned appearance
below.
Phil, I would like to hear more about the "counter-intuitive"
results of photographic processes.
Yours
Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
Cambridge, MA
Glenn A dEntremont wrote:
> I disagree... snip snip. The Black-throated Green always
> shows a darkening in the face. The pale patch in the middle [of the
> auricular patch on Mitch's bird--jhb], the
> apparrent grayness of the patch with the side streaking all point to
> immature Black-throated Green female. Look at Dunn's Warblers on page
> 69, the third bird down on the right side.
>
> Glenn
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Canada Goose subspecies
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 28 Apr 2001 2:15pm
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Greetings All
Below is a post from Kelly McAllister, a scientist/birder. This post is
apropos of Birding World's recent article on Canada Goose subspecies ID. This
article seems, to me, overconfident.
Steven Mlodinow
Subject: Canada Goose subspecies
From: Kelly Mcallister <mcallkrm(AT)dfw.wa.gov>
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:34:18 -0700 (PDT)
Tweeters,For all of you interested in identifying Canada Goose subspecies
from a distance, you might check out the WDFW web site and look at science
publications. There is one on genetic sampling of Canada Geese identified as
Dusky Canada Geese based on measurements and color characterization of dead
birds brought to check stations by hunters. Half of the males and one third
of the females were determined, by genetic assessment, to be from areas
outside the breeding range of the Dusky Canada Goose.For me, these results
are strong reaffirmation of the difficulties of accurately assessing
subspecies of Canada Geese from a distance. And I thought identification of
Duskies was less of a problem than Taverners versus Lessers and Westerns.
Kelly McAllisterWashington Department of Fish and WildlifeOlympia,
WashingtonReply to: mcallkrm(AT)dfw.wa.gov
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Barred Owl in CA
From: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)LINKNET.KITSAP.LIB.WA.US>
Date: 28 Apr 2001 2:16pm
HI ALL:
I'am trying to track down an article about Barred Owls in California with
notes on range expansion to the west coast. I think it was published
within the past 10 years or so.
sincerely
Ian "Birdbooker" Paulsen
Bainbridge Is., WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
"Rallidae all the way"
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Barred Owl in CA
From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan(AT)CCSF.ORG>
Date: 28 Apr 2001 2:50pm
On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 13:51:32 -0700, ian paulsen
<ipaulsen(AT)LINKNET.KITSAP.LIB.WA.US> wrote:
> I'am trying to track down an article about Barred Owls in California with
>notes on range expansion to the west coast. I think it was published
>within the past 10 years or so.
Dark, S. J., Gutierrez, R. J., and Gould, G. L., Jr. 1998. The Barred
Owl (Strix varia) invasion in California. Auk 115:50-56.
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044: mailto:jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
California Birding, mystery birds: http://fog.ccsf.org/~jmorlan/
California Bird Records Committee: http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Charadrius plover field marks
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 28 Apr 2001 4:06pm
Friends, I'd like to call attention to a point of comparison between
Semi-Palmated Plover and Common Ringed Plover which no one has mentioned
so far. This point of comparison is noted in field guides and is
evident on two of the photos which Phil has cited. On Semi, the face is
black where the upper mandible joins the head, but white where the lower
mandible joins the head. On Common Ringed, the face is black where both
the upper and lower mandible join the head. See especially the photo to
which Phil refers in his second post, which shows the two species
together.
On August 10, 2000, I heard and then studied a Common Ringed on N.
Monomoy, Chatham, MA, on which the above character was evident. Much
more striking were the entirely black face and very broad breast band,
reminiscent of a heavy-weight boxer's or wrestler's championship belt.
Both of these characters have been noted on on the photos to which we
have been referred.
A partial eye-ring may have been present on the N. Monomoy bird, ,
but the eye was generally visible only as a gleam where one would expect
to see the eye. And black extended well down the face.
By comparison with nearby Semi's, the Common Ringed was noticeably
if slightly larger, and noticeably if slightly darker. A thin, whispy
white line extended well back of the eye, as shown in one of the
illustrations in Birds of the West Palearctic.
At the time, I noted that the bill seemed larger than that of the
nearby Semi's, and also to be of a different shape. Later, I learned
from subscriber to this list that the bills of the two species are,
indeed, different in shape. On Semi, the upper mandible droops sharply
at the tip, making the bill asymmetrical overall. On Common Ringed,
the upper and lower mandibles are of the same shape at the tip, giving
the bill overall a symmetrical shape.
This can be seen on several of the photos.
I was first attracted to the N. Monomoy by its repeated calls, which
I would render as>> oo EE oo EE oo EE<<and so forth, ad nauseam.
The Common Ringed, once I found it, looked very different.
Yours,
Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
Cambridge, MA
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Charadrius
From: norman van swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 28 Apr 2001 3:57pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
=20
=20
I agree with Phil and Gunter that the bird is a Semipalmated, in =
fact it is an adult male!
=20
Gunter also wrote:"" Living in Belgium, Ringed Plovers (hiaticula) =
can be seen regularly this time of the year. The smaller tundrae birds =
should be on their way (mainly in May/early June). Surprisingly no =
specimens of tundrae have ever been collected in Belgium, but we do get =
flocks of small, dark Ringed Plovers (often coinciding with migration of =
Sanderlings or other arctic waders)."
=20
Though they may not have been collected in Belgium, they certainly =
occur there during passage: birds banded (ringed) in Belgium have been =
recovered in the breeding area of tundrae.
Norman=20
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Subject: Charadrius plover revisited
From: Michael Dossett <phainopepla(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 29 Apr 2001 8:59pm
Hi Everyone,
First, I must thank all of you who responded to my
query regarding the identity of this bird. Some very
good points were made. I posted this to the list
after taking an informal poll among some birders on
another list, and having a 2-2 split on opinions of
the identity of this bird. Since then the opinions of
people on that list have changed 7-3 in favor of
Common Ringed Plover, with 4 additional people saying
they could see a strong case either way and not
wanting to commit to an I.D. Seven people on this
list responded to my original post and all said that
they felt it was a Semipalmated Plover.
Having said that, let me go more into my thoughts on
this bird. This bird was loosely associated with a
flock of about 40 Western and Least Sandpipers. I say
loosely because it seemed to be more comfortable when
with them, but did not "flush" with the rest of the
flock, instead staying behind and then rejoining the
flock later. I wrote this bird off simply as a
semipalmated until I heard it call. Its call was a
soft and fluted sounding call unlike any that I had
ever heard made by a semipalmated. I did not have a
field guide with me at the time I saw the bird, so I
didn’t know what field marks to look for until after I
had gotten home.
When I first posted this to the list, I was of the
opinion that this bird was a weird semipalmated
plover, mostly based on not finding a Common Ringed
Plover call which sounded like it, but I was willing
to be talked out of it. Subsequently I have found a
.wav file on the internet of a Common Ringed Plover
which sounded very similar to the bird I saw. I put a
link to this on the website with the photos, and also
added the notes of my observations of this bird.
Unfortunately when I went back to the site hoping to
tape the bird, it was no longer present.
I agree with the point that many have made that the
jizz does not seem to fit a Common Ringed Plover, I
must say that this is subjective to the angle of the
photograph and the position of the bird (what isn’t?)
The second photo at this site for example (
http://w1.404.telia.com/~u40400256/chahia.html ) the
Common Ringed Plover appears very slim and not chunky
at all. The birds in the photo at the top of this
page (
http://www.univ-lehavre.fr/cybernat/pages/cuicui.htm )
also appear slimmer than those in the pictures posted
by Phil By contrast, the picture of Semipalmated
Plover in Dennis Paulson’s Shorebirds of the Pacific
Northwest shows a very chunky looking bird with the
same general gestalt of the photos Phil referred us to
Fat content which would affect this chunky appearance
is probably variable dependent on the age and breeding
condition of the bird. Would a bird which is very far
off course from its normal migration route have a
lower fat content and therefor appear more slim? I
don’t know. These are just things to consider.
I must have to respectfully disagree with what some
have pointed out as field marks, despite my very
limited knowledge of Common Ringed Plovers. I feel
that the amount of brown on the face as suggested by
Phil, does not eliminate Common Ringed Plover. A
female or molting bird may show more brown than normal
in these areas. Notice also that there appears to be
some brown in the chest band as well, indicating to me
that this bird may not be entirely in breeding
plumage. What do others think about this idea?
Is the point where the black line on the face meets
the bill a reliable mark? I was intrigued by this
suggestion because it is a mark which I did not find
mentioned in some of my shorebird books. I did find
mention of it in the National Geographic guide that
the line comes to where the mandibles meet, so it
didn’t say anything about overlapping with the base of
the lower mandible. In some pictures I found on the
internet, this line appeared to end at the upper
mandible, while others showed this line coming lower
on the face. I think there is perhaps some
variability in this mark.
Does the width of the breast band on this bird
surprise anyone but me? In Dennis Paulson’s
Shorebirds of the Pacific Northwest, he says, "Ringed
has a distinctly wider black breast band, probably the
best distant field mark, often as wide as or wider
than the area in front of it; that of the Semipalmated
Plover is often no more than half that width." There
is some variability in this I am sure, but the photos
all seem to show what I would consider an
exceptionally wide band, it even appears wider than
that in many of the pics of Ringed Plover I have seen
on the web.
Again, I am not trying to do anything more than play
devils advocate here to generate a little more
discussion.
Some other pictures I found on the web viewed for
comparison at:
http://homex.c2i.net/falgroey/fugl99/loer.htm (this
birds wings are shorter than the tail)
http://www.tringa.no/pages/gallerier/galleri-fugler/sandlo.html
There were a couple other sites I found, but the URLs
don’t seem to be working
Michael Dossett
Bothell, Washington (NE of Seattle)
Phainopepla(AT)yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Charadrius plover revisited
From: Peter Adriaens <Peter.Adriaens(AT)KENDER-THIJSSEN.BE>
Date: 30 Apr 2001 5:09am
Hi all,
in a previous post, Michael Dosset asked:
"Is the point where the black line on the face meets
the bill a reliable mark?"
James B. and Gunter D.S. are right in that the shape of the loral line is a
difference between both species, but this character is more reliable in
juveniles than in adults (or first summers resembling adults).
In adults, this field mark may overlap; the loral line may be thinner than
normal in Ringed, or broader in Semipalmated.
Compare e.g. the following two photographs:
1) Ringed Plover
http://www.lauwersmeer.com/cgi-local/fotogr.cgi?soort=vogel&fotonr=890&vogel
nr=11&taal=nl&land=all&add=&log=
2) Semipalmated Plover
http://www.tsuru-bird.net/plovers/plover_semipalmated1.jpg
However, a very thin black loral line (reaching distinctly upwards, towards
the culmen), combined with a short, stubby bill and distinct eyering as in
the Seattle bird, make it very likely a Semipalmated Plover, especially
since it was photographed in the USA.
When flushed, Ringed Plovers normally give their typical "too-EEP" flight
call (with stress on the second syllable).
I've listened to the .wav file you found on the internet; it consists of two
variations on the normal flight call of Ringed Plover. The first part is a
somewhat drawn-out version of the too-EEP call; it is a trisyllabic
"too-ee-EEP", probably just an excited variant, perhaps recorded at the
moment the bird was flushed. The second part is a bisyllabic "too-EEP"; it
may have a bit of a quivering quality in it (perhaps still caused by
anxiety), but apart from that it sounds identical to the usual flight call
to my ears.
So the recording actually consists of twice the flight call. For the Seattle
bird, you describe the call as "a very soft fluted multi-syllabled warble",
which sounds like something quite different. Was there a stress on any of
the syllables ?
If you want to convince others that this was a Ringed Plover, you will need
sound recordings or good photographs of the toes, I guess.
Best regards,
Peter Adriaens
Belgium
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Charadrius plover revisited
From: Phil Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 30 Apr 2001 10:35am
Michael makes a good point about body fat possibly affecting
appearance. Posture also can alter appearance, particularly
in photos which often capture birds in atypical postures. For
an example, check out the chunky look of this Semipalmated -
http://www.otterside.com/slidejpg/plose2-l.jpg
With respect to these two species, though, having studied all the
photos referenced I must say that there still seems to be a combination
of structural and proportional features (making up the jizz) that goes
beyond what could reasonably be assumed to be variability due to
posture or increase/decrease of body fat. Individually, these differences
are certainly subtle and (as with plumage features) it may be that there
is some overlap in each. But taken as a whole, they do seem distinctive
in most of the photos.
My impressions are that in general, Common Ringed seems to be
more stocky, thick, and angular-shaped overall. In particular, the head
of Common Ringed seems proportionately larger (longer?), and often
shows more "area" on the face behind the eye than Semipalmated.
This may be because Common Ringed tend to have the highest
point of the head fairly centralized and the rear of the head somewhat
steeply angled, while Semipalmated most often seem to have
the highest point of the head towards the forecrown and show less of
an angle to the rear of the head. This seems to give Semi's the typical
appearance of having the majority of the crown sloping backwards,
while Common Ringed seem to typically be more square-headed and
flat-crowned, or to have an equal amount of slope going both directions.
Unfortunately, the appearance of the head shape can vary substantially
with posture, and a single photo may be quite misleading in this
respect, but I think it's definitely worth looking at as a supporting mark.
Semipalmated in general seem more rounded and less angular
overall, and seem consistently proportionately smaller headed to
me. Even the above plump bird seems to still show the rounded,
small-headed jizz typical of a Semi. In photos of Semipalmated
this "cute" look is often accentuated by a stubby, conical-shaped
bill, while the bill of Common Ringed often appears longer and less
tapered, although I would say the appearance of the bill in both
species seems quite variable, at least in photos.
A few of the photos referenced do seem somewhat intermediate with
respect to jizz, but with Michael's bird I feel the series of photos taken
as a whole aren't really intermediate. IMHO the bird shows the small-
headed, high-forecrowned, rounded, slimmer, conical-billed, "cute"
jizz of a Semi to the extent that it appears to be outside the rage of
structural variation of Common Ringed, at least based on the photos
I've seen so far.
As others have mentioned, I also noticed that the loral stripe is
(typically) thinner on Semi and seems to arc up over the bill and
miss the lower mandible, while the (typically) wider loral stripe
of Common Ringed seems to run into the bill at both mandibles.
Although this appears to be somewhat variable, Michael's bird
does seem much more typical of Semipalmated in this respect.
As for the auriculars, I have not seen a photo of Common Ringed that
showed such a diffuse brownish look. Even Common Ringed that
have some brownish tones (basic/immature or presumed females)
seem to be quite solid and very dark almost all the way to the back
of the neck. While there may be some overlap in appearance
between female etc. Common Ringed and alternate male Semi's,
again, the pronounced diffuse appearance of Michael's bird seems
at least atypical for Common Ringed, and far from what you would
hope for on an out of range bird. This opinion is based only on the
photos I've seen, and not on field guide illustrations, some of which
seem to contradict each other in this respect.
Common Ringed or not, I think that perhaps the best lesson that
can be learned from Michael's bird is that with tough ID problems
sometimes looking at individual marks can be confusing, and it
may be more helpful to focus on the overall picture.
Cheers,
Phil Pickering
Lincoln City, Oregon
philliplc(AT)harborside.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Charadrius plover revisited: voice
From: Rich Hoyer <calliope(AT)THERIVER.COM>
Date: 30 Apr 2001 11:23am
Dear Birders,
Concerning the voice that was heard from this plover, I wanted to note that
this time of year it is possible to hear the half-hearted beginnings of
shorebird songs. Shorebirds exhibit one of the most striking examples of
dual-personality syndrome, and many people are surprised to see them on
their breeding grounds singing, displaying, chasing off intruders, harassing
predators, and perching in trees. The switch from winter behavior to
breeding behavior is a sudden switch, so in my experience it is rather rare
to hear these summer vocalizations while the birds are still on their
wintering grounds or migrating. Still, it does happen and it takes people by
suprise. Last year in early May I was amazed to watch a single Long-billed
Dowitcher here in SE Arizona in full display, while the other dozen or so
birds in the area behaved as they always do in winter.
Good Birding,
Rich
---
Note: I will be gone May 12th - June 4th
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: ID of Spotted X Eastern Towhee hybrids
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 30 Apr 2001 12:20pm
** Identification of Spotted X Eastern Towhee hybrids **
Mike Stubblefield has posted some excellent photos of a probable Spotted x
Eastern Towhee hybrid taken in Central Park, New York City, USA last week.
The photos and a nice discussion of the identification by Mike can be found
at:
http://linnaeansociety.org/pages/WhatNew4.html
I think the main reason for not labeling this a definite hybrid is the
statement in Dave Sibley's GUIDE TO BIRDS (p474), that "it is possible for
apparently pure Eastern birds to show white spots on the scapulars and for
Spotted to show limited white at the base of the primaries."
This statement has us a little puzzled! Is this true variation or simply
evidence of hybridization? Obviously if correct, this makes the
identification of vagrants much more complex. Perhaps those with access to
museum collections can check the locations of non-classic individuals? Do
these come from the mid-west or main range of either parental species? Are
there other criteria for identifying 'pure-blooded' individuals? I would
imagine song is of limited use in this respect, given the role of parental
imprinting?
Anyway, we anxiously await informed insight into these interesting
questions. Perhaps Dave can expand on this? Is this statement based on the
literature or his personal observations?
As Mike points out, a well-documented hybrid is as interesting as a clear
cut Spotted Towhee and the New York State Avian Records Committee (NYSARC)
is looking forward to receiving reports from the handful of lucky
observers.
Are there other documented examples of Spotted x Eastern hybrids in the
northeast?
Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
wilsoa02(AT)med.nyu.edu
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: ID of Spotted X Eastern Towhee hybrids
From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan(AT)CCSF.ORG>
Date: 30 Apr 2001 12:46pm
Also on this topic, I've been wondering about the photo labeled
"Eastern Towhee" on page 16 of the current (Feb/Mar 2001) Birders
Journal.
The caption says it was at Beuport, Quebec in January of this year. It
sure looks like a Spotted Towhee to me. I can see no white at the
base of the primaries such as the obvious large white patch on the
presumed hybrid in New York.
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044: mailto:jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
California Birding, mystery birds: http://fog.ccsf.org/~jmorlan/
California Bird Records Committee: http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Charadrius plover revisited: voice
From: KACastelein and DJLauten <birdsong(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 30 Apr 2001 4:21pm
Hello Folks,
Rich mentions shorebird song on migration: just last week we had a
group of Short-billed Dowitchers flying around in the fog at the North
Spit Coos Bay Coos Cty Oregon, and one or more during flight were
singing their full breeding song! Threw me off at first, as I haven't
heard that since being in Churchill in 1995. Also last year, a real
good year in terms of spring numbers of Whimbrels, they too were singing
full song in flight.
Dave Lauten
Bandon OR
birdsong(AT)harborside.com
Rich Hoyer wrote:
> Dear Birders,
>
> Concerning the voice that was heard from this plover, I wanted to note that
> this time of year it is possible to hear the half-hearted beginnings of
> shorebird songs. Shorebirds exhibit one of the most striking examples of
> dual-personality syndrome, and many people are surprised to see them on
> their breeding grounds singing, displaying, chasing off intruders, harassing
> predators, and perching in trees. The switch from winter behavior to
> breeding behavior is a sudden switch, so in my experience it is rather rare
> to hear these summer vocalizations while the birds are still on their
> wintering grounds or migrating. Still, it does happen and it takes people by
> suprise. Last year in early May I was amazed to watch a single Long-billed
> Dowitcher here in SE Arizona in full display, while the other dozen or so
> birds in the area behaved as they always do in winter.
>
> Good Birding,
>
> Rich
> ---
> Note: I will be gone May 12th - June 4th
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Charadrius plover revisited: voice
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 30 Apr 2001 4:41pm
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In my experince in the Pacific NW, I found that Short-billed Dowitchers
commonly 'sing' during migration, at least when they are swirling in around
in large flocks. My recollection is that this was true in fall migration
too, although I may be wrong on this.
-----Original Message-----
From: KACastelein and DJLauten [mailto:birdsong(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 4:25 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Charadrius plover revisited: voice
Hello Folks,
Rich mentions shorebird song on migration: just last week we had a
group of Short-billed Dowitchers flying around in the fog at the North
Spit Coos Bay Coos Cty Oregon, and one or more during flight were
singing their full breeding song! Threw me off at first, as I haven't
heard that since being in Churchill in 1995. Also last year, a real
good year in terms of spring numbers of Whimbrels, they too were singing
full song in flight.
Dave Lauten
Bandon OR
birdsong(AT)harborside.com
Rich Hoyer wrote:
> Dear Birders,
>
> Concerning the voice that was heard from this plover, I wanted to note
that
> this time of year it is possible to hear the half-hearted beginnings of
> shorebird songs. Shorebirds exhibit one of the most striking examples of
> dual-personality syndrome, and many people are surprised to see them on
> their breeding grounds singing, displaying, chasing off intruders,
harassing
> predators, and perching in trees. The switch from winter behavior to
> breeding behavior is a sudden switch, so in my experience it is rather
rare
> to hear these summer vocalizations while the birds are still on their
> wintering grounds or migrating. Still, it does happen and it takes people
by
> suprise. Last year in early May I was amazed to watch a single Long-billed
> Dowitcher here in SE Arizona in full display, while the other dozen or so
> birds in the area behaved as they always do in winter.
>
> Good Birding,
>
> Rich
> ---
> Note: I will be gone May 12th - June 4th
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