ID-FRONTIERS for September 16-22, 2001

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Fw: Fw: Pacific vs American Golden-Plover ID   Matthew Kenne    Sun, 16 Sep 2001   6:50pm   Aging and sexing of Northern Wheatears   Angus Wilson    Wed, 19 Sep 2001   4:32pm   Red-shouldered vs. Broadwing of what age?   Richard Stern    Wed, 19 Sep 2001   5:48pm   QRY Bills, calls of LStint/RNStint   James H. Barton   Wed, 19 Sep 2001   6:12pm   Re: Red-shouldered vs. Broadwing of what age?   Tony Leukering    Wed, 19 Sep 2001   7:21pm   Re: Red-shouldered vs. Broadwing of what age?   Dave DeReamus    Thu, 20 Sep 2001   1:17am   Re: Red-shouldered vs. Broadwing of what age?   Jeff Bouton    Thu, 20 Sep 2001   2:45am   Re: QRY Bills, calls of LStint/RNStint   Lethaby, Nick   Thu, 20 Sep 2001   8:52am   Re: Red-shouldered vs. Broadwing of what age?   Dave DeReamus    Thu, 20 Sep 2001   11:51am   Aging and sexing of Northern Wheatears   Angus Wilson    Thu, 20 Sep 2001   4:12pm   Re: Red-shouldered vs. Broadwing of what age?   Tony Leukering    Thu, 20 Sep 2001   11:22pm   Calls of LStint/RNStint   James H. Barton   Fri, 21 Sep 2001   5:23pm   Re: RNstint/Little Stint id/calls   Julian Hough    Fri, 21 Sep 2001   8:38pm

To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'. This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.

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Subject: Fw: Fw:      Pacific vs American
         Golden-Plover ID
From: Matthew Kenne <meekeckk(AT)RCONNECT.COM>
Date: 16 Sep 2001 6:50pm

Comment from Oscar Johnson, Pacific Golden Plover researcher and co-author
of the Golden Plover account in the Birds of North America.

Matthew Kenne
Algona, Iowa
meekeckk(AT)rconnect.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <OWJohnson2105(AT)aol.com>
To: <meekeckk(AT)rconnect.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [BIRDWG01] Pacific vs American Golden-Plover ID

> Greetings Matthew,
>
> Nice to hear from you again.  Many thanks for sending the website for
viewing
> photos of the NJ golden-plover.  I've looked them over with great
interest.
> Based on what I see, I'd have to conclude the plover in question was
fulva.
> Always tough with molting birds, but key features like tibia exposure,
> primary projection past tertials, primary length relative to tail are all
> consistent with Pacific GP.
>
> My wife and I returned home from The Netherlands only a few days before
the
> WTC tragedy. We saw the towers as we were landing in Newark.  Grateful for
> the timing of our trip, and also that our oldest son (a pilot with United
> Airlines) was not flying on 11 Sept.  We were in Europe to attend an
> international shorebird conference.  By the way, saw 1000s of Eurasian
> Golden-Plovers in Holland.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Wally
>
> Dr. Oscar W. Johnson
> Department of Ecology
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59717
> tel: 406-587-7305
> e-mail: owjohnson2105(AT)aol.com


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Subject: Aging and sexing of Northern Wheatears
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 19 Sep 2001 4:32pm

I have posted photos of a Northern Wheatear (Oenanthe oenanthe) present
at Smith's Point County Park in Long Island, New York State. The North
American literature remains a little thin on the identification of
Northern Wheatears and I would be interested hear other people's opinion
of the sex and age of this bird. Also would anyone care to comment on
the subspecies - nominate or leucorhoa - involved? The presumption is
'Greenland Wheatear' leucorhoa but is this correct?

The URL is:

http://www.oceanwanderers.com/NYWhtear.html

Cheers, Angus Wilson


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Subject: Red-shouldered vs. Broadwing of what age?
From: Richard Stern <rbstern(AT)NS.SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 19 Sep 2001 5:48pm

Hello,

I hope this isn't too basic a question for ID frontiers, but this Summer I
took a photo of a soaring Buteo over a wooded subdivision here in Nova
Scotia - I put it on the web  (http://photos.yahoo.com/rb_stern then click
on the folder called Buteo). I thought the bird at the time was an adult
Red-shouldered hawk, largely on the basis of the pale outer wing panel, and
probably didn't give it the attention I should. Now, scrutinizing the photo,
I feel that the amount of white in the tail, the shape of the pale outer
wing panel and the black trailing edge and overall shape of the wings all
fit an adult Broad-wing - much less exciting. However the pallor of the
outer wing panel seems very prominent for the latter species, and all the
references I could find for Broad-wings with a pale squarish outer wing
panel were for imm. plumaged birds. We see large numbers of Broadwings here,
mostly imm. migrants in Fall, and I have never seen one with such a
promiment wing panel as this. Is this bird clearly a Broad-winged, and if so
how old is it?

####################

Richard Stern
Kentville
Nova Scotia
Canada

rbstern(AT)ns.sympatico.ca

####################


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Subject: QRY Bills, calls of LStint/RNStint
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 19 Sep 2001 6:12pm

    Friends,  does bill of Little Stint >C. minuta< EVER approach that
of Red-necked Stint >C. ruficollis< in length and size?  The bill of
ruficollis is typically portrayed as VERY short.  Does minuta ever
present a bill as short and stubby as that of ruficollis, as portrayed,
e.g., in Jonsson and Mullarney et al.?

    Jonsson renders ruficollis flight calls as

    "like Little Stint but lower in pitch, with 'l' sound, "klupp" [with
diaresis/umlaut on 'u'] or 'klurpp" [again with umlaut/diaresis on 'u'].

    Several of us were recently studying a stint which repeatedly called
in flight, "krrlup krrlup"  or "krrlip krrlip", with the "rr" rolled as
in Spanish 'corre el rio'.

    We will not rely on call alone to nominate ruficollis for our bird.
But how would you evaluate the call or our bird as one piece of
evidence?

    Thanks for your help.

    Yours,

    Jim Barton
    redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
    Cambridge, MA


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Subject: Re: Red-shouldered vs. Broadwing of what age?
From: Tony Leukering <GreatGrayO(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 19 Sep 2001 7:21pm

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Hi all:

Richard Stern's Buteo is certainly a Broad-wing.  It is, however, in an
interesting, though not all that rare of a plumage.  Since it is spring, this
bird is readily aged as a third-year Broad-wing (that is, less than two years
old).  It is mostly in Definitive Basic, but has the outer four primaries
retained from Juvenal plumage.

Retention of the outer 3 or 4 Juvenal pp is fairly typical for Buteos,
particularly larger species.  However, it is particularly noticeable in
species such as Red-tail and Broad-wing that have very large and obvious pale
panels as juveniles.

I am convinced that this plumage (or the similar second-year plumage - going
from Juvenal to First Basic/Def. Basic and also with retained outers), though
with one or two fewer retained pp, is responsible for most, if not all,
reports of Red-shoulders in Colorado in mid- and late spring (the latter
species is a very early spring migrant).

Enjoy,

Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO

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Subject: Re: Red-shouldered vs. Broadwing of what age?
From: Dave DeReamus <becard(AT)FAST.NET>
Date: 20 Sep 2001 1:17am

Hi Richard and all,

Aahh, yes!  The old "window" wing markings.  Despite it being a reported
field mark for Red-shouldered Hawk, it is only ONE of the field marks and
the one that I see WAY TOO MUCH weight put on for Redshoulder identification
at our local hawkwatching sites.

Redtails commonly show this feature, as do other raptors.  This IS an
interestingly-marked bird, but it isn't a Red-shouldered; it's a Broadwing
(although it definitely would cause you to do a 'double-take' if you saw
it).  The wide black-and white tail bands, the shortness of the tail, the
black trailing edge of the wings, and the relatively short wings compared to
the width of the spread tail, all point to Broadwing.  Also note that a
Redshoulder's 'windows' tend to be across the wing (appearing like
parentheses at each end of the wings) instead of at a diagonal line like
this bird shows.

I also agree with Tony with respect to the bird's age.  The bird is not far
from reaching adult plumage.  Hope this helps.

Good birding,

Dave DeReamus
'Eastern PA Birdline' Compiler
Easton, PA
becard(AT)fast.net
Remember that birds can't read range maps!


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Subject: Re: Red-shouldered vs. Broadwing of what age?
From: Jeff Bouton <jbouton(AT)ISNI.NET>
Date: 20 Sep 2001 2:45am

> Aahh, yes!  The old "window" wing markings.  Despite it being a reported
> field mark for Red-shouldered Hawk, it is only ONE of the field marks and
> the one that I see WAY TOO MUCH weight put on for Redshoulder
identification
> at our local hawkwatching sites.
>
> Redtails commonly show this feature, as do other raptors.  This IS an
> interestingly-marked bird, but it isn't a Red-shouldered; it's a Broadwing
> (although it definitely would cause you to do a 'double-take' if you saw
> it).

Dave and all,

Young Red-taileds and young Broad-wingeds do indeed show a light panel on
the wings, but they are all very differently shaped and still remain a good
field character for ID. Broad-wingeds and Red-tailed both show very large
rectangular panels that cotinue all the way to the secondaries, unlike the
thin crescents that on the wing tips of a Red-shouldered. Additionally, the
panel on a Red-tailed continues on to the primary coverts helping to further
differentiate from Broad-wingeds. Although, one should never rely too
heavily on one field mark as you suggest. As you mentioned the light patch
here is in the wrong position for Red-shouldered running out from the wrist
to the wing tip. On Red-shouldered the mark would be parallel to the wing
tip and body. One other feature that neither you or Tony pointed out that
would also support Broad-winged Hawk is the wing shape. Broad-wingeds always
show a smooth curve from wing tip to body along the trailing edge of the
wing when soaring. Red-taileds tend to be very broad and rounded through the
secondaries but don't show the tapered trailing edge of the primaries.
Red-shouldereds are similar but the secondary bulge is less distinct giving
a more straight-edged effect to the trailing edge of the secondaries.

At any rate, thanks for sharing the picture Richard, this is a great
illustration of a not so uncommon plumage that causes some major
identification challenges throughout the country in spring.

Good birding,

Jeff Bouton
Port Charlotte, FL
jbouton(AT)isni.net


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Subject: Re: QRY Bills, calls of LStint/RNStint
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 20 Sep 2001 8:52am

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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The normal flight calls of the two species are quite different. Little Stint
has a high-pitched 'tit' typically given in tripiclate 'tit-tit-tit'. The
most similar other shorebird call is probably Red-necked Phalarope. The call
isn't confusable with the normal calls of other 'stints'. Your description
would seem to eliminate Little Stint to me.

Red-necked Stint sounds very similar to Western Sandpiper to me (Paulson
also makes the same comment in his book).

-----Original Message-----
From: James H. Barton [mailto:redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 6:12 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] QRY Bills, calls of LStint/RNStint

    Friends,  does bill of Little Stint >C. minuta< EVER approach that
of Red-necked Stint >C. ruficollis< in length and size?  The bill of
ruficollis is typically portrayed as VERY short.  Does minuta ever
present a bill as short and stubby as that of ruficollis, as portrayed,
e.g., in Jonsson and Mullarney et al.?

    Jonsson renders ruficollis flight calls as

    "like Little Stint but lower in pitch, with 'l' sound, "klupp" [with
diaresis/umlaut on 'u'] or 'klurpp" [again with umlaut/diaresis on 'u'].

    Several of us were recently studying a stint which repeatedly called
in flight, "krrlup krrlup"  or "krrlip krrlip", with the "rr" rolled as
in Spanish 'corre el rio'.

    We will not rely on call alone to nominate ruficollis for our bird.
But how would you evaluate the call or our bird as one piece of
evidence?

    Thanks for your help.

    Yours,

    Jim Barton
    redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
    Cambridge, MA

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Subject: Re: Red-shouldered vs. Broadwing of what age?
From: Dave DeReamus <becard(AT)FAST.NET>
Date: 20 Sep 2001 11:51am

Hi Jeff and all,

Yes, you're right that EXPERIENCED hawkwatchers know how to differentiate
the 'window' markings found on different species of raptors because they are
generally made up of distinctive shapes that point to that particular
species.  Jeff did a very good job of putting these shapes into words, one
thing that I avoided since I figured on just causing more confusion.

Thanks Jeff and Good birding,

Dave DeReamus
'Eastern PA Birdline' Compiler
Easton, PA
becard(AT)fast.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Bouton" <jbouton(AT)isni.net>
To: "Dave DeReamus" <becard(AT)FAST.NET>; <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [BIRDWG01] Red-shouldered vs. Broadwing of what age?

> Dave and all,
>
> Young Red-taileds and young Broad-wingeds do indeed show a light panel on
> the wings, but they are all very differently shaped and still remain a
good
> field character for ID. Broad-wingeds and Red-tailed both show very large
> rectangular panels that cotinue all the way to the secondaries, unlike the
> thin crescents that on the wing tips of a Red-shouldered. Additionally,
the
> panel on a Red-tailed continues on to the primary coverts helping to
further
> differentiate from Broad-wingeds. Although, one should never rely too
> heavily on one field mark as you suggest. As you mentioned the light patch
> here is in the wrong position for Red-shouldered running out from the
wrist
> to the wing tip. On Red-shouldered the mark would be parallel to the wing
> tip and body. One other feature that neither you or Tony pointed out that
> would also support Broad-winged Hawk is the wing shape. Broad-wingeds
always
> show a smooth curve from wing tip to body along the trailing edge of the
> wing when soaring. Red-taileds tend to be very broad and rounded through
the
> secondaries but don't show the tapered trailing edge of the primaries.
> Red-shouldereds are similar but the secondary bulge is less distinct
giving
> a more straight-edged effect to the trailing edge of the secondaries.
>
> At any rate, thanks for sharing the picture Richard, this is a great
> illustration of a not so uncommon plumage that causes some major
> identification challenges throughout the country in spring.
>
> Good birding,
>
> Jeff Bouton
> Port Charlotte, FL
> jbouton(AT)isni.net
>
>
>


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Subject: Aging and sexing of Northern Wheatears
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 20 Sep 2001 4:12pm

In response to the pictures of the New York Northern Wheatear,

http://www.oceanwanderers.com/NYWhtear.html

I have received the following comments worth sharing with the rest of
ID-Frontiers.

Peter Wilkinson (Wheathampstead, England) felt it was a bit ambitious
trying to age and sex an autumn
bird that is not an adult male and supplied some appropriate quotes from
Svensson (1992) and Jenni and Winkler (1994):

Svensson in his Identification Guide to European Passerines (4th ed,
1992, British Trust for Ornithology, the Nunnery, Norfolk.) - the
European Pyle - says re separation of leucorhoa from oenanthe
"Identification of single birds in autumn is rarely possible except by
size as some northern birds of the nominate subspecies have rather
distinctly rufous-buff plumage." (There is an overlap in wing length, so
this is only useful for the biggest birds in the hand.)

Re: ageing in autumn he says " Ad.: Inside of upper mandible grey-black
or black. 1Y.: Inside of upper mandible partly yellow." You would have
to be pretty lucky to see that without catching it!
Re: sexing in autumn: "Ad male: Lores black, ear-C blackish tipped
brown, supercilium (and forehead in many) white. 1Y male/all females:
Lores brown-balck (or paler brown with indistinct dark stripe), ear-C
(dark) brown, supercilium creamy-white or buffish."

The account in Jenni and Winkler, Moult and ageing of European
Passerines (1994) is rather lengthier but essentially the same.
Sometimes one can make out a moult limit in the greater coverts which
clinches a 1Y bird (but only in about 29 per cent of birds apparently
and then usually in the innermost coverts). They do add that "ad males
can always be recognised by the dark black colour of the whole wing and
the greyish, not yellowish-brown outer fringes of the GC."

These sentiments were echoed by Shai Mitra (Babylon, New York) who was
able to study the Smith's Point bird in the field. He comments:
"Svensson also implies that, in basic plumage, distingushing adult
females from HY [hatching year] males and females requires in-hand
criteria like skull, inner mouth color, and molt limits.  HY males and
females can't be distinguished, even in the hand.  I studied the bird in
perfect light with my scope from a distance that would reveal molt
limits in some species, and I DID NOT discern any. This would imply
adult female.  Still I would NOT conclude from this type of
observation--in an unfamiliar species--that molt limits really were
absent, and I would state only that it was not an adult male."

Richard Millington (Norfolk, England) comments: "I do try to take an
interest in the passage wheatear that I see in
Norfolk. Unfortunately, I have met with limited success with ageing and
sexing autumn wheatears, and you doubtless already know that Svensson
offers colour of the inside of the bill as the only sexing clue... When
it comes to racial ID, not knowing whether particular birds suspected to
be Greenlands are actually so is one problem, of course. All that said,
your bird looks typical of what I would call a female-type Greenland
here at this time of year: the rather long-looking body, the apparently
very broad tail band, the wholly peachy-ochre underparts and the nature
of the wing-markings (inc. the broad pale fringes on the w-coverts and
primary coverts) and the upperpart colour (v. brown). Actually, it is
birds like yours that sometimes cause Isabelline scares (eg on Scilly),
because of the overall uniformity and the wing markings, size, and
especially the broad tail band. Obviously they soon get sorted though.
Isn't it so that the spring male Greenlands are often rather female-like
at first glance (grey-brown upperparts and ochreous underparts,
ill-defined cheek patch? If so, the corresponding autumn plumages might
reflect this? (making sexing even trickier)."

Bram Aarts (Nijmegen, The Netherlands) comments: "Based on what I have
read, I think your wheatear is indeed a leucorhoa, on
the basis of the very orange under- and upperparts, and earcoverts.  It
is interesting that Svensson warns for large,  reddish-colored  nominate
wheatears from the far north. I have never read  anything about any
clinal variation in wheatears in Asia. On Iceland and the Faroer Islands
wheatears are intermediate between leucorhoa and oenanthe, they were
formerly considered to be a separate race 'kleinschmidti', but this is
now invalid and taxonomists seem to have drawn the line quite
subjectively." Bram provides some additional Wheatear links:
http://www.digi-sight.com/digi-sight.html
http://www.bmarket.freeserve.co.uk/wheatear.htm
http://club300.se/galleri/arkiv02.cfm

My thanks to Peter, Shai, Richard and Bram and those who commented on
the photos themselves. Additional thoughts, comparative photos and
information would be very welcome.

Angus Wilson
New York City
angus.wilson(AT)med.nyu.edu
http://www.oceanwanderers.com


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Subject: Re: Red-shouldered vs. Broadwing of what age?
From: Tony Leukering <GreatGrayO(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 20 Sep 2001 11:22pm

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Hi all:

In my response to Richard Stern's query about his photographed Buteo, I
misread the season as spring, rather than the written summer.  That would
somewhat change my response, as pointed out personally by Brian Sullivan.  If
the bird was photographed in summer, then it could easily have been a bird
that had completed its First Pre-Basic molt and was quite adult-like, save
for the retained outer primaries; again, a feature that ranges from
not-all-that-rare to typical for buteos, depending on the species.

In response to Will Russell's query about the completeness of BWHA's First
Pre-Basic, the vast majority of my experience with molting juvs is from
conducting the watch at Whitefish Point, MI, a few springs.  Of course, at
this time, the birds are nowhere near completing this molt, so most birds
have replaced a few to less than half of their primaries (with a small
percentage getting up to P6 or P7 by early June).  Unfortunately, I don't
have much experience with the beasts later in the season to see how many
manage to completely replace primaries and how many primaries are typically
retained by this species.  Unfortunately, most of my fall experience of
migrating raptors comes from Cape May, NJ, where the species is not very
common at all.  Perhaps those with fall experience at inland sites or those
on the Great Lakes (e.g., Jeff Schultz) could chime in with their knowledge.
What proportion of "adult" BWHAs have retained juv primaries in fall?  I know
that I've seen some, so they certainly don't all complete primary replacement
in their first year.

And to reiterate, retention of juv primaries is typical in many species of
Buteo.  Thus, in all N. American species that have pale primary panels as
juvs but not as adults (BWHA, Red-tail, Rough-leg), one can find some to many
second-year birds with a thin, pale panel restricted to the outermost 2-4
primaries, which thus superficially resembles the panel on a Red-shoulder.
The key is the shape of the panel (not to mention the shape of the entire
bird - which is another story).  A second-year bird of the trio mentioned
above would have a panel that is long and parallel-sided along the axis of
the wing (note the illustration on pg. 118 in Sibley).  Red-shoulder's panel
is thin, curved, and cuts across the axis of the wing.

Enjoy,

Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO

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Subject: Calls of LStint/RNStint
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 21 Sep 2001 5:23pm

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    Nick, thanks for your reply.  From what you and others have said, I
think I can safely eliminate Little S >C. minuta<.

    Peter Adriaens has kind enough to give me a URL where I can hear
Little S.  Does anyone know of sites where the calls of RN Stint
>ruficollis< can be heard?  Calls of Western S >mauri<?

    Mullarney et al. give the flight call of mauri as "a high, vibrant
'jeet'. The call of our bird was very different (see original post,
where I described the call as "klrrlup klrrup" or "klrrulip klkrrlip",
with the 'rr' pronounced as in Spanish 'rr' in 'corre el rio'.

    I was following Jonsson in my description of the call, which I
thought to be close to what I heard.  In Jonsson, the call of ruficollis
is presented as including a dieresis/umlaut over the 'u' of  'klupp' pr
'klurrp', indicating something approaching a disyllabic sound.  That's
what I heard.

    Mullarney et al. give the call of ruficollis as "a hoarse chrrrit."
I have received a message from Alaska describing the call as "trrrrit."

   The bill of the bird in question was very short and blunt.  The upper
and lower mandible were symmetrical, that is, there was no noticeable
difference in shape between them. The bill was very, very different from
anything I would have thought to associate with Western S, which we see
regularly in small numbers in Massachusetts in autumn.

    The calls to which I referred were given in flight.  I'm quite
familiar with the flight calls of Least S and Semi S >pusilla<.

    I look forward to continuing this discussion.

    Yours,

    Jim Barton
    redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
    Cambridge, MA

"Lethaby, Nick" wrote:

>
>
> The normal flight calls of the two species are quite different. Little
> Stint has a high-pitched 'tit' typically given in tripiclate
> 'tit-tit-tit'. The most similar other shorebird call is probably
> Red-necked Phalarope. The call isn't confusable with the normal calls
> of other 'stints'. Your description would seem to eliminate Little
> Stint to me.
>
> Red-necked Stint sounds very similar to Western Sandpiper to me
> (Paulson also makes the same comment in his book).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James H. Barton [mailto:redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 6:12 PM
> To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] QRY Bills, calls of LStint/RNStint
>
>     Friends,  does bill of Little Stint >C. minuta< EVER approach that
>
> of Red-necked Stint >C. ruficollis< in length and size?  The bill of
> ruficollis is typically portrayed as VERY short.  Does minuta ever
> present a bill as short and stubby as that of ruficollis, as
> portrayed,
> e.g., in Jonsson and Mullarney et al.?
>
>     Jonsson renders ruficollis flight calls as
>
>     "like Little Stint but lower in pitch, with 'l' sound, "klupp"
> [with
> diaresis/umlaut on 'u'] or 'klurpp" [again with umlaut/diaresis on
> 'u'].
>
>     Several of us were recently studying a stint which repeatedly
> called
> in flight, "krrlup krrlup"  or "krrlip krrlip", with the "rr" rolled
> as
> in Spanish 'corre el rio'.
>
>     We will not rely on call alone to nominate ruficollis for our
> bird.
> But how would you evaluate the call or our bird as one piece of
> evidence?
>
>     Thanks for your help.
>
>     Yours,
>
>     Jim Barton
>     redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
>     Cambridge, MA

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Subject: Re: RNstint/Little Stint id/calls
From: Julian Hough <Jrhough1(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 21 Sep 2001 8:38pm

I was one of the people who replied to Jim's posting regarding the calls of
Red-necked Stint, and transcribed it as "trrit" - I hate transcribing calls.
Since this is distinct from the short, R-n Phalarope-like call of Little, I
thought it would be worthwhile noting.

I'm assuming that JB's queries relate to a bird was in Mass.? Where there any
other Red-necked plumage features notable on this bird to warrant close
attention to call as a clinching feature?

I have just spent some time watching my first juv. R-n Stint on Gambell, St.
Lawrence Is., Alaska. There were some distinctive features about this bird
which made id. easier than I thought.

I have some photos which I will post as soon as I scan them in.

Julian Hough,
CT, USA