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ID-FRONTIERS for October 1-6, 2001
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Re: juvenile hybrid gulls food begging. | David Sibley | Mon, 1 Oct 2001 | 8:03am |
| Re: juvenile hybrid gulls food begging. | Norman D.van Swelm | Mon, 1 Oct 2001 | 3:37pm |
| Italy: mistery Ardeola ? | =?iso-8859-1?q?Menot | Wed, 3 Oct 2001 | 8:08am |
| Quiz 19 & quiz 20 | Michel Bertrand | Wed, 3 Oct 2001 | 8:48am |
| Re: juvenile hybrid gulls food begging. | Rudolph Keller | Wed, 3 Oct 2001 | 12:17pm |
| FW: [FLORIDABIRDS-L] Possible Cassin's Sparrow | Kurt Radamaker | Wed, 3 Oct 2001 | 5:05pm |
| Re: [FLORIDABIRDS-L] FW: [FLORIDABIRDS-L]
Possible Cassin's Sparrow | Kurt Radamaker | Wed, 3 Oct 2001 | 6:18pm |
| Clay-colored Sparrow Question | James F. Flynn, Jr. | Wed, 3 Oct 2001 | 8:17pm |
| Pictures of Pontic Gull on my site | Jean-Sébastien Rouss | Wed, 3 Oct 2001 | 10:55pm |
| French gull ID | Alain Foss=?ISO-8859 | Thu, 4 Oct 2001 | 10:17am |
| Re: French gull ID | =?iso-8859-1?q?Menot | Thu, 4 Oct 2001 | 11:48am |
| FW: French gull ID | Alain Foss=?ISO-8859 | Fri, 5 Oct 2001 | 9:40am |
| Re: FW: French gull ID | Jean-Sébastien Rouss | Fri, 5 Oct 2001 | 12:51pm |
| Italy. Mistery gull | =?iso-8859-1?q?Menot | Fri, 5 Oct 2001 | 2:05pm |
| request for information | Norman D.van Swelm | Sat, 6 Oct 2001 | 7:54am |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
|
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: juvenile hybrid gulls food begging.
From: David Sibley <dsibley(AT)SHORE.NET>
Date: 1 Oct 2001 8:03am
Bruce et al.,
The point that juvenile gulls beg from anything that might be a source of
food has already been made a couple of times, but I thought I would relate a
specific incident from Cape May a few years ago.
One late summer day a Marbled Godwit dropped in at the South Cape May
Meadows and landed among a flock of 100 or so recently fledged juvenile
Laughing Gulls. It continued to call as it stood on the ground, and the call
bears some resemblance to the voice of an adult Laughing Gull. This must
have been the reason that several young Laughing Gulls approached the godwit
and started begging! They gave up quickly (as the godwit backed away
nervously) but heck, it was worth a try.
I've also heard of one instance of adults of two or three SPECIES of
passerines feeding one fledgling Brown-headed Cowbird, and there may be
published records of this. There are also the famous photographs of the
Cardinal feeding goldfish. So I wouldn't be absolutely certain that feeding
by adults indicates parentage either. And there's the issue of extra-pair
copulation, etc. It continues to be almost impossible to PROVE hybrid
origin.
David Sibley
Concord, MA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Mactavish" <bruce.mactavish1(AT)NF.SYMPATICO.CA>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 4:05 AM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] juvenile hybrid gulls food begging.
> Does a juvenile gull begging for food from an adult gull confirm one of
the
> parents?
>
> I was lived in Inuvik, Northwest Territories July 20 - Sept 24, 2001.
> Inuvik is a small community 100 km east of the Yukon border and 75 km
inland
> from the Beaufort Sea. The local dump attracts small numbers of gulls
> (50-150 individuals per visit). Glaucous Gulls and Herring Gulls, and a
few
> Mew Gulls, were the only species. Glaucous outnumbered the Herring
roughly
> five to one. Most were adults with a very few sub adults. 5-10% of the
> adults were clearly hybrid Glaucous x Herring. Generally looking like a
> Glaucous Gull with pale gray markings in the outer five primaries. A
number
> of Herring-like gulls with excessive white in the outer primaries may have
> been hybrids as well. Unlike Newfoundland Herring Gulls which show large
> amounts of white in P10 and P9, the few Inuvik Herrings showing excessive
> white mirrors in P10 and P9 also exhibited a wide area of black separating
> the mirror from the gray tongues of both the inner and outer webs. What
> appeared to be typical pure Inuvik Herring Gulls had large amounts of
black
> in P5 -P10 with a small mirror in P10 separated from the feather tip by a
> thick black bar. Some also had a small mirror on P9.
>
> Small numbers of juvenile gulls starting appearing in late August. The
> juvenile gulls suggested that even more the 5-10% of the adults contained
a
> mixture of genes. Typical juvenile Herring Gulls were easy to assign to
> species. Typical juvenile Glaucous Gulls were difficult to come by. Most
> juvenile gulls looked like hybrid Glaucous x Herring. There was a wide
> variations in the combos produced, but none were like typical hybrids in
> eastern North America where they appear as Glaucous Gull-like with
> contrasting darker brown outer primaries and tail band. In Inuvik there
was
> hardly a typical individual. Plumage characters ranged from Thayer's-like
> to glaucoides Iceland Gull-like to dark billed, dirty brown plumaged
> Glaucous Gull-like individuals. Most interestingly from the west coast
> birders point of view were individuals that were close to juvenile
> glaucoides Iceland Gull. They probably would have gone unnoticed in a
flock
> of Iceland Gulls in eastern Canada. Generally they had heavier, more
> coarsely marked scapulars. Markings in the primary tips more blurred. Less
> distinct then pale Kumlien's, probably fades away to nothing with a little
> wear. The head and bills were proportionately larger than average
> glaucoides/kumlieni. The primaries extension beyond tail was also similar
> to Herring Gull, not long like typical glaucoides/kumlieni. However, these
> were subtle differences enhanced by an attitude where I was looking for
> reasons why these couldn't be Iceland Gulls. One could be persuaded to
lean
> toward Iceland Gull if it was an isolated bird farther south and the
> excitement factor was strong. Especially when dull primary markings could
> fade away leaving uniform pale feathers. I saw one such bird beg for food
> from an adult Glaucous Gull for about two minutes before receiving a large
> chunk of regurgitated food that it eagerly swallowed. Is this ultimate
> proof of one of the parents???
>
> The Thayer's-like juveniles came in variety of patterns. Some with odd
> broad buff borders to scapulars and thick barring in outer half of
tertials.
> Some were like pale Herring Gulls. None had solidly black bills. There
was
> brownish at the base of the bill blending in with a blackish outer two
> thirds. Juvenile Thayer's are noted as having black bills, especially
> during the first months of life. Also head, bill and wing tip proportions
> were more Herring Gull-like. I witnessed one such individual beg for food
> from and adult Glaucous Gull for fifteen minutes before apparently
receiving
> a small morsel, if anything. The juvenile stop begging and the adult flew
> off to another part of the dump. The two birds were not seen together in
> the next 30 minutes. The juvenile continued to 'mew' but did not beg from
> other adult gulls. Does this mean the adult Glaucous Gull was the parent
of
> this juvenile???
>
> It is interesting how different populations of Herring and Glaucous Gulls
> produce different hybrid combinations. Juvenile or first winter birds
> identified as Herring x Glaucous hybrids in Europe have long intrigued me.
> They look like heavily marked Iceland Gulls or exceedingly pale Herring
> Gulls. In Newfoundland such hybrids typically look very like Glaucous
Gulls
> except with distinctly darker brown primaries and tail band. Photos of
> hybrids from eastern North American that I've seen also look this way.
Some
> of the Inuvik hybrids were similar to European hybrids, but none were like
> classic eastern North American birds.
>
> The Inuvik Herring Gulls and Glaucous Gulls are different than
Newfoundland
> birds. The Herring Gulls are smaller bodied with proportionately small
bills
> and much larger area of black in outer six primaries. The Glaucous Gulls
> are distinctly smaller than eastern North American birds. They averaged
only
> slightly larger than the Herring Gulls with some individuals obviously
> smaller than most of the Herrings. A small number of adult Glaucous had
> dark eyes! Iris heavily speckled with dark flecks on brown background. At
> any distance the eyes appeared black even in strong light. One might
> suggest these were sub adult birds. However they appeared fully adult and
I
> saw this feature enough times to suggest it was more than abnormally late
> changing iris colour of sub adults. A number of adult Herring Gulls also
> had darkish eyes.
>
> Inuvik is at the northern limit of Herring Gull breeding range in this
part
> of North America. Nearly all of the large gulls breeding between Inuvik
> and the Beaufort Sea coast, 75 km to the north, are Glaucous Gulls.
Herrings
> were in the more treed areas around Inuvik and southward. It appears
there
> has been a long tradition of interbreeding in this area with all manner of
> back crossing. The end product is a wide variety of plumages. Some of
which
> could cause identification problems in the south.
>
> Bruce Mactavish
> St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
> bruce.mactavish1(AT)nf.sympatico.ca
>
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: juvenile hybrid gulls food begging.
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 1 Oct 2001 3:37pm
>'And there's the issue of extra-pair
>copulation, etc. It continues to be almost impossible >to PROVE hybrid
>origin.', says David Sibley
Things are not as hopeless as it seems David though it takes a lot of hard
work. DNA analyses in combination with (colo(u)r) banding can reveal hybrid
origins. There is, ofcourse, the possibility to do hybridisation studies in
the laboratory by means of artificial insemination. It would be very
worthwhile to do this but also very costly and time consuming.
Norman
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Italy: mistery Ardeola ?
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Menotti=20Passarella?= <aster_men(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 3 Oct 2001 8:08am
Hello !
Maybe it’s not such a mistery birds, so it’s simply a
Squacco Heron (Ardeola ralloides), but it seems to me
a little strange with those cream spots on brown
mantle;
you’ll find this bird photographed yesterday in the Po
Delta, NE Italy, here:
http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/squaccoh.JPG
What about a vagrant oriental Ardeola ?
Cheers
Menotti Passarella
Italy
______________________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Quiz 19 & quiz 20
From: Michel Bertrand <bertrmi(AT)COLBA.NET>
Date: 3 Oct 2001 8:48am
Hi,
Most of you, I think, already know the QuébecOiseaux quizzes. Many have
participating in those plays aiming to help birders to improve their skills
for bird indentification while having fun. For those for whom our quizzes
will be something new, let me say that all what you have to do is
identifying a mystery bird from a photography you can find on our website
(or in our magazine) and to send me your answer. And, for a more interesting
challenge, some prizes are drawn among those who send the right
identification.
Before introducing the new quiz (no. 20), I want to congratulate all those
who have identified correctly the female Brown-headed Cowbird which was our
previous mystery bird (no. 19). That has not been evident for everybody as
we can see from the variety of suggested identifications : Brown-headed
Cowbird, Indigo Bunting, House Finch, American Goldfinch, Yellow-headed
Blackbird, Bobolink, House Sparrow, Dark-eyed Junco, California Towhee,
Rosy-finch, Pine Grosbeak, White-collared Seedeater, Gray Jay, Eastern
Bluebird, Rough-winged Swallow, Nashville Warbler and Common Yellowrhroat
(the female or juvenile for many of them). A detailed text about the
identification of that bird is in the Fall issue of QuébecOiseaux. The
one-year subscriptions to the magazine have been won by Huguette Gaudreault
from Sutton, Louise Lemoine from Sacré-Coeur-de-Marie and Rozanna Miller
from Plant City (Florida). The Paquin & Caron field guide has been won by
Sylvie Bolduc from Mont-Saint-Grégoire.
The new mystery bird (no. Défi 20) can be seen at the following webpage
http://www.quebecoiseaux.qc.ca/HTML/Defi.html
and in the magazine. A nice bird, isn't that ?
For participating, you only have to send me your identification of that bird
with your name and your postal address (for the purpose of sending your
prize if you win; nobody else will have your full address but I publish the
name of the winners with their city as you have seen above). I like, also,
that you tell me why you are identifying the bird like you do, but that's
not required. When writing the "official" answer for the magazine, I always
quote some of the received answers. Some of you have been already quoted
there. For sure, you can send your answer in English (the magazine is in
French).
The last date for sending your answer is October 10th.
I hope you will send your answer. Please, don't include my message with your
answer; I have to print each one.
Be happy...
MICHEL BERTRAND
Sainte-Julie, Qc
bertrmi(AT)colba.net
N'oubliez pas d'identifier l'oiseau mystère :
Don't forget to identify the mystery bird at :
http://www.quebecoiseaux.qc.ca/HTML/Defi.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: juvenile hybrid gulls food begging.
From: Rudolph Keller <rkeller(AT)ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU>
Date: 3 Oct 2001 12:17pm
This doesn't relate to begging gulls, but rather to David Sibley's comment
about more than one sp. feeding the same fledgling Brown-headed Cowbird. I
witnessed a case of this here in SE PA on a cold, wet late June day in
1999. I heard a young cowbird begging with unusual persistence, prob. due
to the cold weather. I tracked it down and saw it fed 3 times by ad.
Veeries, which were also feeding the cowbird's nestmates, 2 quiet Veery
chicks. The cowbird aggressively flew to meet its hosts, while the Veery
chicks stayed put. At one point the cowbird ended up some distance from
its nestmates, still begging vociferously. I walked closer and saw an ad.
Wood Thrush quickly fly up and feed the cowbird. At first I thought there
must be 2 cowbird chicks, each with its own host. But as I watched longer
and kept track of the cowbird as it moved around, it became clear that
both Veery and Wood Thrush adults were feeding the same cowbird fledgling.
I concluded that the Veery pair had hatched the bird because it
preferentially sought out the Veeries, circling back to them when it
became separated by my intrusion. It made no attempt to follow the Wood
Thrush, and it was the Veeries that gave alarm calls when I got too close
to the cowbird.
Rudy Keller
Boyertown, PA
rkeller(AT)astro.ocis.temple.edu
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: FW: [FLORIDABIRDS-L] Possible Cassin's Sparrow
From: Kurt Radamaker <javaswift(AT)javaswift.com>
Date: 3 Oct 2001 5:05pm
Hello all,
Tom Curtis found and photographed an interesting Sparrow on the Florida
State Campus. Below are Tom's notes and a url with photos. Please take a
look and respond with comments.
http://www.javaswift.com/floridabirds/mystery%20sparrow.html
Kurt Radamaker
javaswift(AT)javaswift.com
Orlando FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Florida Birds [mailto:FLORIDABIRDS-L(AT)LISTS.UFL.EDU]On Behalf Of
tom curtis
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 8:31 AM
To: FLORIDABIRDS-L(AT)LISTS.UFL.EDU
Subject: [FLORIDABIRDS-L] Possible Cassin's Sparrow
This morning I found a sparrow on the FSU campus that I think may be a
Cassin's Sparrow. I watched the bird for 15-20 minutes and got looks at
almost every aspect of the bird.
Notes:
General impression - a very grey Aimophila-style sparrow with a noticeable
eye-ring and plain breast.
Plumage - Overall sandy-grey with reddish areas in some places.
Back - grey with reddish spots. The feathers appeared to have grey edging
with reddish centers. This gave the bird a spotted look, with reddish
spots on a grey background.
Tail - long, dark grey, and rounded. The rounded profile was quite
apparent when the bird was on the ground. In flight, the tail was not
spread.
Tertials had very prominent white edges.
Rump appeared dark, but I did not get a real good look.
Breast appeared largely plain, but at some angles, there appeared to be
very short, thin vertically- oriented reddish streaks
Breast coloration light tannish and extended onto belly
Head - reddish cap with very fine grey streaks overall.
Reddish behind eye
Breast coloration extended onto lower face, whitish throat
Folded primaries appeared reddish.
Hint of yellow at the wrist
Other characteristics- Very noticeable eye-ring, Grey beak, Pinkish legs.
Rounded head.
Spent all of its time on the ground, occasionally running under a bush but
never jumping up onto branches. Appeared to prefer short-grass areas.
Difficult to flush, but when it did fly, it would fly a few yards and then
land at the base of a bush. General escape tactic seemed to be to run
under something rather than fly.
I cannot emphasize strongly enough how grey this bird looked. The reddish
spots were really not apparent until I used binoculars.
Tom Curtis
tcurtis(AT)psy.fsu.edu
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: [FLORIDABIRDS-L] FW: [FLORIDABIRDS-L]
Possible Cassin's Sparrow
From: Kurt Radamaker <javaswift(AT)javaswift.com>
Date: 3 Oct 2001 6:18pm
In my last post I failed to mention that any comments should be sent to the
listserve
Cheers
Kurt Radamaker
-----Original Message-----
From: Florida Birds [mailto:FLORIDABIRDS-L(AT)LISTS.UFL.EDU]On Behalf Of
Kurt Radamaker
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 7:53 PM
To: FLORIDABIRDS-L(AT)LISTS.UFL.EDU
Subject: [FLORIDABIRDS-L] FW: [FLORIDABIRDS-L] Possible Cassin's Sparrow
Hello all,
Tom Curtis found and photographed an interesting Sparrow on the Florida
State Campus. Below are Tom's notes and a url with photos. Please take a
look and respond with comments.
http://www.javaswift.com/floridabirds/mystery%20sparrow.html
Kurt Radamaker
javaswift(AT)javaswift.com
Orlando FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Florida Birds [mailto:FLORIDABIRDS-L(AT)LISTS.UFL.EDU]On Behalf Of
tom curtis
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 8:31 AM
To: FLORIDABIRDS-L(AT)LISTS.UFL.EDU
Subject: [FLORIDABIRDS-L] Possible Cassin's Sparrow
This morning I found a sparrow on the FSU campus that I think may be a
Cassin's Sparrow. I watched the bird for 15-20 minutes and got looks at
almost every aspect of the bird.
Notes:
General impression - a very grey Aimophila-style sparrow with a noticeable
eye-ring and plain breast.
Plumage - Overall sandy-grey with reddish areas in some places.
Back - grey with reddish spots. The feathers appeared to have grey edging
with reddish centers. This gave the bird a spotted look, with reddish
spots on a grey background.
Tail - long, dark grey, and rounded. The rounded profile was quite
apparent when the bird was on the ground. In flight, the tail was not
spread.
Tertials had very prominent white edges.
Rump appeared dark, but I did not get a real good look.
Breast appeared largely plain, but at some angles, there appeared to be
very short, thin vertically- oriented reddish streaks
Breast coloration light tannish and extended onto belly
Head - reddish cap with very fine grey streaks overall.
Reddish behind eye
Breast coloration extended onto lower face, whitish throat
Folded primaries appeared reddish.
Hint of yellow at the wrist
Other characteristics- Very noticeable eye-ring, Grey beak, Pinkish legs.
Rounded head.
Spent all of its time on the ground, occasionally running under a bush but
never jumping up onto branches. Appeared to prefer short-grass areas.
Difficult to flush, but when it did fly, it would fly a few yards and then
land at the base of a bush. General escape tactic seemed to be to run
under something rather than fly.
I cannot emphasize strongly enough how grey this bird looked. The reddish
spots were really not apparent until I used binoculars.
Tom Curtis
tcurtis(AT)psy.fsu.edu
______________________________________________________________
FLORIDABIRDS-L : www.javaswift.com/floridabirds/ - FloridaBirds-L website
For list policy, read: www.javaswift.com/floridabirds/policy.html
For archives: www.lists.ufl.edu/archives/floridabirds-l.html
To set nomail: Mailto:listserv(AT)lists.ufl.edu Set floridabirds-l nomail
Listowner: (1) Mailto:passmore(AT)datasys.net or (2) Mailto:bkpass(AT)aol.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Clay-colored Sparrow Question
From: "James F. Flynn, Jr." <jflynn(AT)AMERICA.NET>
Date: 3 Oct 2001 8:17pm
On Sunday, 9/30/2001, an adult Clay-colored Sparrow was located in
Alpharetta, GA, (north Atlanta suburb) by Bruce Dralle and Tracy Brown.
It has been observed at the same location every day since by various
observers, and this afternoon I had an opportunity to also see it, as
well as snap a few photos.
One of the field marks that I have always used in separating immature
and adult Clay-coloreds from young Chipping Sparrows is the rump color
(light brown in the former, gray in the latter). A review of several
reference does not indicate that the rump color of Clay-coloreds is
anything but brown.
This particular bird has me a bit puzzled because of the rump color,
which appeared grayish in the field and in a couple of the photos that
I took. The photos may be viewed on-line at the following URL:
http://www.gos.org/sightings/ccsp.html
The top photo was taken at noon, looking directly into the sun. Notable
in this poor photo is the apparent contrast in the nape (gray), back
color (light brown), and rump (gray). Even in poor light, the contrast
in color between the different areas to me shows that this bird had a
gray rump.
The photo second from the top was taken at a different angle under much
better conditions. It seems to me that the contrast between the light
brown sections of the back feathers and the gray rump (a small section
of which is visible above the drooped wings) is somewhat obvious, even
matching the coloration of the nape.
The other two photos are provided simply to show that this bird appears
to have all of the other field marks of a Clay-colored.
So, the question to those that have much more experience with this
species...do Clay-colored Sparrows on occasion show a grayish coloration
on the rump?
Thanks and take care.
--
Jim Flynn
Cumming, GA
jflynn(AT)america.net
*******************************
Georgia Ornithological Society:
http://www.gos.org/index.html
*******************************
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Pictures of Pontic Gull on my site
From: Jean-Sébastien Rousseau-Piot <jsrp(AT)CARAMAIL.COM>
Date: 3 Oct 2001 10:55pm
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
I just added good pics of a 1st winter Larus cachinnans
photographed at Zeebrugge, Belgium on 28/9.
http://www.digi-sight.com/digi-sight.html
Other pics of this species photographed in Poland this summer
are available in the Gulls Gallery (include juv plumage).
Jean-S=E9bastien Rousseau-Piot
Bruxelles
Belgium
______________________________________________________
Bo=EEte aux lettres - Caramail - http://www.caramail.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: French gull ID
From: Alain Foss=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Angers France <alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: 4 Oct 2001 10:17am
Hi everybody,
Thierry Fournet and I disagree about the ID of a gull I took here in France:
you can see the pictures on my web page
http://digimages.multimania.com/goeleu/goeleu.htm
It's the 3rd set (from top) under
"juvénile, 19 août 2001, La Daguenière" [1st cy, 08/19/01, La Daguenière].
As you'll see I took the pictures thinking it was a Yellow-legged Gull Larus
(c.) michahellis and Thierry think it's a Great Black-back L. marinus...
Your point of view?
Thanks.
Best regards.
•=======================================•
Alain Fossé,LPO Anjou,Montreuil-Juigné,France
47° 31' 34" N, 0° 35' 43" W
<alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com> or
<alfosse(AT)wanadoo.fr>
My digiscoping
<http://digimages.multimania.com/>
My French List of the Birds of the World
<http://listoiseauxmonde.multimania.com/>
Web Site LPO Anjou<http://www.lpo-anjou.org/>
•=======================================•
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: French gull ID
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Menotti=20Passarella?= <aster_men(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 4 Oct 2001 11:48am
Hello !
According to me it's a Larus michahellis Yellow-legged
Gull.
You may compare your bird with these photos:
First winter Yellow-legged:
http://oystman.tripod.com/italiangulls/id8.html
http://oystman.tripod.com/italiangulls/id9.html
First winter Great Black-backed:
http://oystman.tripod.com/italiangulls/id15.html
Cheers
Menotti Passarella
Italy
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/birdinggulls
--- Alain Fossé Angers France <alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM>
wrote: > Hi everybody,
>
> Thierry Fournet and I disagree about the ID of a
> gull I took here in France:
> you can see the pictures on my web page
> http://digimages.multimania.com/goeleu/goeleu.htm
> It's the 3rd set (from top) under
> "juvénile, 19 août 2001, La Daguenière" [1st cy,
> 08/19/01, La Daguenière].
> As you'll see I took the pictures thinking it was a
> Yellow-legged Gull Larus
> (c.) michahellis and Thierry think it's a Great
> Black-back L. marinus...
>
> Your point of view?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Best regards.
>
> •=======================================•
> Alain Fossé,LPO Anjou,Montreuil-Juigné,France
> 47° 31' 34" N, 0° 35' 43" W
> <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com> or
> <alfosse(AT)wanadoo.fr>
> My digiscoping
> <http://digimages.multimania.com/>
> My French List of the Birds of the World
> <http://listoiseauxmonde.multimania.com/>
> Web Site LPO Anjou<http://www.lpo-anjou.org/>
> •=======================================•
=====
Menotti Passarella
Gorino, Fe, ITALY
"The virtue of the camera is not the power it has to transform the photographer
into an artist, but the impulse it gives him to keep on looking - and looking"
BROOKS ATKINSON (1894-1984, DRAMA CRITIC)
______________________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Subject: FW: French gull ID
From: Alain Foss=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Angers France <alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: 5 Oct 2001 9:40am
> De : Martin Reid <upupa(AT)airmail.net>
> Date : Fri, 05 Oct 2001 11:03:35 -0500
> À : Alain Fossé Angers France <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>
> Objet : Re: French gull ID
>
> Dear Alain,
> I feel that in general, the plumage of some YLGUs is almost identical to
> some GBBGs, and this can be a very hard identification on an individual
> that might be a large YLGU or a small GBBG. The most GBBG-like feature on
> your bird is the bill pattern/shape and head shape, but I think this can be
> matched by a few large male YLGUs. The unmarked white center of the
> underparts, plus the plain-ness of the tertials and humerals are a strong
> vote against GBBG for me, and thus I would favour YLGU for this individual.
> By the way, I feel that the bird on the same group page that you have
> labelled "2e année civile, 27 avril 2001, Soulaire-et-Bourg, avec Mouettes
> rieuses Larus ridibundus et Sternes pierregarins Sterna hirundo" is more
> like a Caspian Gull (l. c. cachinnans/ponticus) than a YLGU (l. c.
> michahellis): the plain tertials with worn pale tips, plain wing coverts
> (a few molting-in coverts in late April is perfectly OK for Caspian), long,
> pale-tipped (despite extensive wearing) wings, are features I am looking
> at. - comments?
> Regards,
> Martin
>
>
> At 10/4/2001 07:07 PM +0200, you wrote:
>> Hi Martin,
>>
>> Thierry Fournet and I disagree about the ID of a gull I took here in France:
>> you can see the pictures on my web page
>> http://digimages.multimania.com/goeleu/goeleu.htm
>> It's the 3rd set (from top) under
>> "juvénile, 19 août 2001, La Daguenière" [1st cy, 08/19/01, La Daguenière].
>> As you'll see I took the pictures thinking it was a Yellow-legged Gull Larus
>> (c.) michahellis and Thierry think it's a Great Black-back L. marinus...
>>
>> Your point of view?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>> •=======================================•
>> Alain Fossé,LPO Anjou,Montreuil-Juigné,France
>> 47° 31' 34" N, 0° 35' 43" W
>> <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com> or
>> <alfosse(AT)wanadoo.fr>
>> My digiscoping
>> <http://digimages.multimania.com/>
>> My French List of the Birds of the World
>> <http://listoiseauxmonde.multimania.com/>
>> Web Site LPO Anjou<http://www.lpo-anjou.org/>
>> •=======================================•
>
> Martin Reid
> Fort Worth, Texas
> upupa(AT)airmail.net
> http://www.martinreid.com or http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: FW: French gull ID
From: Jean-Sébastien Rousseau-Piot <jsrp(AT)CARAMAIL.COM>
Date: 5 Oct 2001 12:51pm
<table align='center' width='80%' border='1' cell spacing='5' cellpadding='30'
bgcolor='#EEEEEE'
background='http://www.digi-sight.com/rayures-gris.gif'><tr><td><font
face='Courier New, Courier, mono' size='4' color='#666666'>Dear Alain, <br>
<br>
I also think it's not a GBBG for almost the same reasons than Martin: head and
bill shape and tertials pattern. <br>
I would like to add that juv. GBBG have greater coverts with a large amount of
white, often more white than dark is present and this is true on all the coverts
except the 2-4 inner ones. <br>
On your gull the inner greater coverts are darker with only a pale fringe and
not chekered inside. The outer greater coverts are also less ckeckered with
white (almost not) and thus appear darker. <br>
I think those two details are never encountered on GBBG: <br>
outer greater coverts are always more chekered than on your bird and inner ones
doesn't differ from the middle ones (or are paler). <br>
<br>
I put some recent pictures on my site of a typical juv GBBG <br>
for comparison (head/bill shape, tertials and greater coverts <br>
are clearly different than those of your bird). <br>
<br>
http://www.digi-sight.com/digi-sight.html?content=galleryLatest.php?ids=452-454
<br>
<br>
So I also think it's a michahellis with well marked coverts. <br>
<br>
The second bird Martin is talking about seems also more <br>
cachinnans-like to me. <br>
<br>
Jean-Sébastien <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> -------Message d'origine------- <br>
> De : Alain Foss=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Angers France
<alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM> <br>
> Date : 05/10/2001 17:44:15 <br>
> <br>
> > De : Martin Reid <br>
> > Date : Fri, 05 Oct 2001 11:03:35 -0500 <br>
> > À : Alain Fossé Angers France <br>
> > Objet : Re: French gull ID <br>
> > <br>
> > Dear Alain, <br>
> > I feel that in general, the plumage of some YLGUs is almost identical
to <br>
> > some GBBGs, and this can be a very hard identification on an
individual <br>
> > that might be a large YLGU or a small GBBG. The most GBBG-like feature
on <br>
> > your bird is the bill pattern/shape and head shape, but I think this
can be <br>
> > matched by a few large male YLGUs. The unmarked white center of the
<br>
> > underparts, plus the plain-ness of the tertials and humerals are a
strong <br>
> > vote against GBBG for me, and thus I would favour YLGU for this
individual. <br>
> > By the way, I feel that the bird on the same group page that you have
<br>
> > labelled "2e année civile, 27 avril 2001,
Soulaire-et-Bourg, avec Mouettes <br>
> > rieuses Larus ridibundus et Sternes pierregarins Sterna hirundo"
is more <br>
> > like a Caspian Gull (l. c. cachinnans/ponticus) than a YLGU (l. c.
<br>
> > michahellis): the plain tertials with worn pale tips, plain wing
coverts <br>
> > (a few molting-in coverts in late April is perfectly OK for Caspian),
long, <br>
> > pale-tipped (despite extensive wearing) wings, are features I am
looking <br>
> > at. - comments? <br>
> > Regards, <br>
> > Martin <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > At 10/4/2001 07:07 PM +0200, you wrote: <br>
> >> Hi Martin, <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Thierry Fournet and I disagree about the ID of a gull I took here
in France: <br>
> >> you can see the pictures on my web page <br>
> >> http://digimages.multimania.com/goeleu/goeleu.htm <br>
> >> It's the 3rd set (from top) under <br>
> >> "juvénile, 19 août 2001, La
Daguenière" [1st cy, 08/19/01, La Daguenière]. <br>
> >> As you'll see I took the pictures thinking it was a Yellow-legged
Gull Larus <br>
> >> (c.) michahellis and Thierry think it's a Great Black-back L.
marinus... <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Your point of view? <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Thanks. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Best regards. <br>
> >> <br>
> >> •=======================================• <br>
> >> Alain Fossé,LPO Anjou,Montreuil-Juigné,France <br>
> >> 47° 31' 34" N, 0° 35' 43" W <br>
> >> or <br>
> >> <br>
> >> My digiscoping <br>
> >> <br>
> >> My French List of the Birds of the World <br>
> >> <br>
> >> Web Site LPO Anjou <br>
> >> •=======================================• <br>
> > <br>
> > Martin Reid <br>
> > Fort Worth, Texas <br>
> > upupa(AT)airmail.net <br>
> > http://www.martinreid.com or http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa <br>
> > <br>
> </font></td></tr></table>
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Subject: Italy. Mistery gull
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Menotti=20Passarella?= <aster_men(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 5 Oct 2001 2:05pm
Hi !
This is the photo of the mistery:
http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/ylcleargull.JPG
Photographed today 5 October 2001 at Chioggia, south
of Venice, NE Italy, in a flochk of Yellow-legged Gull
(Larus michahellis).
The mantle appears clearer than the nearest YLG;
according to me the mantle is also clearer than
argentatus and maybe argenteus.
The legs are similar in colour than the ones of the
YLG, so I suppose it might be an aberrant (leucistic?)
Yellow-legged Gull.
Cheers
=====
Menotti Passarella
Gorino, Fe, ITALY
"The virtue of the camera is not the power it has to transform the photographer
into an artist, but the impulse it gives him to keep on looking - and looking"
BROOKS ATKINSON (1894-1984, DRAMA CRITIC)
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Subject: request for information
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 6 Oct 2001 7:54am
On behalf of a friend I request information on the occurrence of Ross's
Gulls in Churchill, Manitoba during the breeding season of 2001.
Norman
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