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ID-FRONTIERS for November 11-17, 2001
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Hermit Thrush Winter Call-Notes? | Noel Wamer | Sun, 11 Nov 2001 | 7:34am |
| Re: Hermit Thrush Winter Call-Notes? | Mike Patterson | Sun, 11 Nov 2001 | 9:04am |
| Help with tern | Trevor Hardaker | Mon, 12 Nov 2001 | 12:13am |
| East Coast Ross's Geese | Graham Etherington | Mon, 12 Nov 2001 | 7:36am |
| Hermit Thrush Call - Summary & More | Noel Wamer | Mon, 12 Nov 2001 | 9:36am |
| Re: Hermit Thrush Call - Summary & More | Brian Williams | Mon, 12 Nov 2001 | 1:07pm |
| Snipe Quiz: answer and more... | Martin Reid | Mon, 12 Nov 2001 | 8:23pm |
| dark juv. gull in Mass. | Steve Hampton | Tue, 13 Nov 2001 | 11:05am |
| Re: dark juv. gull in Mass. | Angus Wilson | Tue, 13 Nov 2001 | 11:49am |
| Re: dark juv. gull in Mass. | Phil Pickering | Tue, 13 Nov 2001 | 12:27pm |
| BIRDGGO1 Re: Dark gull in Mass. | Dave Irons | Tue, 13 Nov 2001 | 2:02pm |
| Re: Snipe Quiz: answer and more... | Norman D.van Swelm | Tue, 13 Nov 2001 | 2:23pm |
| dark. juv. gull in MA: bill structure | James H. Barton | Tue, 13 Nov 2001 | 5:01pm |
| funky MA gull | David Fix and Jude C | Tue, 13 Nov 2001 | 6:08pm |
| Re: dark. juv. gull in MA: bill structure | Phil Pickering | Tue, 13 Nov 2001 | 7:02pm |
| Re: E. Beach Tern Pictures. (fwd) | Laurent Raty | Wed, 14 Nov 2001 | 6:28am |
| Birds and Dams | Caroline Kennedy | Wed, 14 Nov 2001 | 10:02am |
| | paullarkin | Wed, 14 Nov 2001 | 10:22am |
| Milwaukee Larid | John Idzikowski | Wed, 14 Nov 2001 | 10:22am |
| Bicknell's Thrush | Roland Asteling | Wed, 14 Nov 2001 | 11:42am |
| Re: Bicknell's Thrush | Jerry Tangren | Wed, 14 Nov 2001 | 12:19pm |
| Re: Bicknell's Thrush | Blake Maybank | Wed, 14 Nov 2001 | 12:26pm |
| Re: Bicknell's Thrush | Chris Tessaglia-Hyme | Wed, 14 Nov 2001 | 12:48pm |
| Re: Milwaukee Larid | Robert H. Lewis | Wed, 14 Nov 2001 | 1:31pm |
| Scilly Skua | Dick Newell | Wed, 14 Nov 2001 | 3:52pm |
| Re: Bicknell's Thrush | Richard Stern | Wed, 14 Nov 2001 | 4:17pm |
| Re: Milwaukee Larid | Martin Reid | Thu, 15 Nov 2001 | 6:09am |
| Re: Milwaukee Larid | Peter Adriaens | Thu, 15 Nov 2001 | 7:35am |
| Re: Scilly Skua | Pierre-Andre Crochet | Thu, 15 Nov 2001 | 8:28am |
| Whip-poor-will in British Columbia | Don Cecile | Thu, 15 Nov 2001 | 9:02pm |
| Re: Late Pewee in Wisconsin | John Idzikowski | Fri, 16 Nov 2001 | 12:49pm |
| Whip in British Columbia | Andrew Kratter | Fri, 16 Nov 2001 | 1:31pm |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
|
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Hermit Thrush Winter Call-Notes?
From: Noel Wamer <nwamer(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 11 Nov 2001 7:34am
For about the past week I have been plagued by mysterious early morning
call notes emanating from the woods around my house. Even though I have
yet to see a calling bird, I have come to the conclusion that they must be
Hermit Thrushes. I admit never having heard this particular call note
before (or at least not remembering it, which could be one of those age
things). This call note is not on any recordings that I have
available. The closest written description of Hermit Thrush calls that I
have found is Sibley's flight call -- a clear plaintive whistle peew.
I will speculate that these calls are being used to establish winter
territories, as I have heard birds counter-calling. If so, the call note
may be given only a short period after arrival for the winter.
I was able to make a recording of the call notes this morning. I have
posted a sample of the call notes in the form of a .wav file. The file has
six call sequences. On the first three a more distant, fainter bird
counter-calls after the closer bird, and on the last two the closer bird
counter-calls after distant bird. The file is a continuos recording, and
accurately reflects the regular repetetion of the note at about three
second intervals.
I would be interested in any comments anyone might have about this subject.
Call note recording (170 kb .wav file)
at: http://www.badbirdz.com/mysterycall.htm
Later...
Noel Wamer
Jacksonville, FL, US
The Virtual 'Hood: http://www.badbirdz.com/dripperCam.htm
"Even in its most primitive form, naming is a kind of judgment."
(Walker Percy)
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Hermit Thrush Winter Call-Notes?
From: Mike Patterson <celata(AT)pacifier.com>
Date: 11 Nov 2001 9:04am
This recording is essentially identical to the Hermit Thrush
whistle call I was listening to here on the north coast of Oregon
just yesterday. The guttatus form is a regular to common winter
resident here. These Hermits more frequently do a soft chucking
note.
I can't eliminate other east-coast-only species for you, but I
can say this is consistent with call notes for Hermit Thrush.
Noel Wamer wrote:
>
> For about the past week I have been plagued by mysterious early morning
> call notes emanating from the woods around my house. Even though I have
> yet to see a calling bird, I have come to the conclusion that they must be
> Hermit Thrushes. I admit never having heard this particular call note
> before (or at least not remembering it, which could be one of those age
> things). This call note is not on any recordings that I have
> available. The closest written description of Hermit Thrush calls that I
> have found is Sibley's flight call -- a clear plaintive whistle peew.
>
> I will speculate that these calls are being used to establish winter
> territories, as I have heard birds counter-calling. If so, the call note
> may be given only a short period after arrival for the winter.
>
> I was able to make a recording of the call notes this morning. I have
> posted a sample of the call notes in the form of a .wav file. The file has
> six call sequences. On the first three a more distant, fainter bird
> counter-calls after the closer bird, and on the last two the closer bird
> counter-calls after distant bird. The file is a continuos recording, and
> accurately reflects the regular repetetion of the note at about three
> second intervals.
>
> I would be interested in any comments anyone might have about this subject.
>
> Call note recording (170 kb .wav file)
> at: http://www.badbirdz.com/mysterycall.htm
>
> Later...
>
> Noel Wamer
> Jacksonville, FL, US
> The Virtual 'Hood: http://www.badbirdz.com/dripperCam.htm
> "Even in its most primitive form, naming is a kind of judgment."
> (Walker Percy)
--
Mike Patterson When I despair, I remember
Astoria, OR that all through history
celata(AT)pacifier.com the way of truth and love have always won.
There have been tyrants, and murderers,
and for a time they can seem invincible,
but in the end they always fall.
Think of it...always.
- Mahatma Gandhi
http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Help with tern
From: Trevor Hardaker <trevor(AT)DHK.CO.ZA>
Date: 12 Nov 2001 12:13am
Hi ID-Frontiers,
This description was sent to me yesterday of a tern seen in the Eastern Cape
in South Africa. Any suggestions from any of you out there?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Kind Regards
Trevor
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
Tern seen at Great Fish Point, Eastern Cape (3331S 2706E) on 9 November
2001.
Seen by A J Tree, P R Wilson and A Williams.
Time: 11.20 to 13.00 hours.
Weather conditions: Easterly wind, force 3 to 4, cloudy with light showers.
Range: Mainly 12 m down to 8 m. Viewed from a 4x4 vehicle.
Optical aids: Binoculars and telescopes.
Size: marginally smaller than a Common Tern, one of which sat briefly with
this bird when it was first seen.
General: adult or sub-adult bird in early stages of moult from breeding to
non-breeding. Rather tame and although preened regularly may have been sick.
Preferred own company some way from main diurnal tern roost. Did not seem to
like the east wind and tried to find shelter behind beach debris at the back
of the beach and was knocked off-balance by the wind on a couple of
occasions; sat in a hunched up position most of the time when not preening.
At a distance looked a long sleek, but slightly paunchy, bird with
exceptionally long wings. Rough field sketches made but I am no artist!
Unfortunately no-one had cameras with them as not the most photogenic
weather.
Description.
Bill: black and about as long and heavy as that of a Common Tern. Not slim
and showing apparent slight decurvature as in Roseate Tern. Gonydeal angle
not prominent. Extreme tip of bill yellowish ivory - very short, maybe 1-2
mm, and clean-cut, more distinct at very close range than the ivory tip of
the Common Tern which fuses into the black of the bill. .
Legs: black with reddish "knees" and a reddish tinge in centre of webs.
Legs as long as those of Common Tern but sturdier and "knees" quite thick,
this being quite different to the short, puny legs of the Arctic Tern.
Head: Breeding cap but forehead to front of crown barred black and white.
Slight white line between gape and cap. Black to below eye and well down
nape to saddle. Fairly wide white band extending from black on nape around
and below cap through upper throat. Forehead steeper than that of Common
Tern rounding onto crown; but did not have the congenial look of an Arctic
Tern (of which several watched and videoed at Cape Recife two days earlier).
Head-on view showed head to be quite broad, rather reminiscent of a
Whiskered Tern.
Upperparts: Fairly dark grey, distinctly darker than Common Tern, including
race longipennis of which a few were present in the nearby roost. When
sitting saddle appeared slightly paler than wing coverts but in flight
mantle and wings appeared uniform dark, slightly bluish (light factor?),
grey. Strongly demarcated white rump and tail. Outer web of outer tail
feather dark grey and that of next feather, grey. Rest white.
Wings: upper; primaries dark grey (appeared to be all one series of moult)
with outer two feathers very dark on outer web and on distal end of inner
web. Rachis whitish. Inner web dark grey by rachis with pale whitish on
outer section proximally from the very dark grey tips. General effect on
closed wing was of a very dark band around leading and trailing edge with
dark grey panel in middle. Wings projected at least 4 to 5 cm beyond end of
tail which was unbroken. When viewed head-on the wings were seen to cross
each other quite considerably. Primaries and tail looked to be quite fresh.
Underparts: Medium grey with some darker grey patches - to ventral area.
Slightly barred effect on breast with whitish or light grey indicative of
early stage of moult out. Much darker grey than any Common (including
longipennis) or Arctic Tern but not as dark as extremes of the nominate race
of the Antarctic Tern. Under-tail coverts white.
Chest shape initially steepish with a fairly sharp kink to 45 degrees
rounding off around belly to vent. Quite a noticeable change of angle from
ventral area to wings/tail.
Underwing when extended: whitish to pale greyish in part with darker grey
leading edge to primaries and fairly broad grey trailing edge to primaries
and secondaries. The whitish appeared as a panel in the raised wing.
This bird shows features of White-cheeked, Kerguelen and Arctic Terns but is
clearly none of these species, although the likelihood is only that of the
Arctic Tern. Quite clearly differentiated from any race or age of the
Antarctic Tern, a bird on which I have been working for several years now.
A J Tree
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: East Coast Ross's Geese
From: Graham Etherington <etherington(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 12 Nov 2001 7:36am
Hi all,
There have been quite a few records of Ross's Geese in Britain this autumn,
including a 1st winter bird here in Norfolk (UK) so I read with great
interest the article in this months ABA newsletter ‘Winging It’ about the
increase in numbers of Ross’s Geese on the US east coast…
“Breeding in the central Canadian Arctic and wintering mainly in
well-defined portions of the South and West, Ross's Goose seems to be
turning up with increasing frequency on the East Coast (a few now winter
routinely, for example, on the Delmarva Peninsula). Some accounts suggest
that this species is increasing in numbers, which might account for a rise
in Midwestern and East Coast reports, but the movements and wintering range
of Ross's Goose may also be changing in response to habitat alteration. A
bird reported from New Jersey's Brigantine NWR in early October was believed
to a Ross's Goose (from the hotline transcription, we surmise that size in
flight relative to accompanying Snow Geese was the principle basis for the
identification). Found and photographed in mid-October on Martha's Vineyard,
Massachusetts, was a more cooperative immature goose, identified as a Ross's
by multiple observers. If accepted, this will furnish a second record for
the Bay State (the first occurred less than five years ago).”
Firstly, I take the ‘Delmarva’ Peninsula to be Delaware/Maryland/Virginia
Peninsula, and secondly, does anyone know how many birds are wintering there
and if this has been growing in numbers over the past few years. Any other
notes on increased east coast vagrancy would also be appreciated.
Lastly, as I mentioned above, the bird here in Norfolk is a first winter. Do
Ross’s Geese breed early compared to other geese? The reason I ask, is that
it, if it is a genuine vagrant, and not an escape, it seems to have covered
quite a bit of land/sea to get here so early in the season (it was first
seen around 2nd Nov).
Thanks for your comments,
Graham
Graham Etherington
197 Unthank Road,
Norwich NR2 2PQ,
England
Tel: (+44)07787 118809 (mobile) or 01603 506595 (home)
http://communities.msn.com/GrahamEtherington/home.htm
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Hermit Thrush Call - Summary & More
From: Noel Wamer <nwamer(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 12 Nov 2001 9:36am
I would like to thank everyone who responded to my post. My conjecture
that it is the so-called nocturnal fight call was confirmed by an
experienced bird recordist. This call can be found on the Stokes eastern
recording. Several persons suggested that the calling birds might have
been migrants that had just landed at dawn. I do not think this is the
case as I have been hearing the calls on a daily basis for the past
week. I did hear the call yesterday as late as 10:30 am.
This morning the thrushes started to call at 6:31 am (civil twilight -
6:25, sunrise - 6:50). One bird was calling from woods adjacent to the
yard, and two more distant individuals were heard. The close calling bird
was perched in the upper canopy, about 40 feet off the ground. I played a
brief recording, which resulted in the thrush immediately stopping its call
and flying down into the underbrush at the edge of the yard. After landing
the bird started making chup calls in an agitated way. It was rapidly
flicking its wings and tail, and seemed to be looking for an intruder.
Later this morning (10:45 am), after not having heard any thrush
vocalizations for about an hour, I stepped into the edge of the woods and
began to play the recording. Within a minute or two, an obviously agitated
and chupping Hermit Thrush appeared and approached to within ten feet.
Based upon the responses to the playbacks, I think that it is safe to
speculate that this call serves for winter (and migration?) territorial
advertisement, as well as nocturnal flight call.
Later...
Noel Wamer
Jacksonville, FL, US
The Virtual 'Hood: http://www.badbirdz.com/dripperCam.htm
"Even in its most primitive form, naming is a kind of judgment."
(Walker Percy)
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Hermit Thrush Call - Summary & More
From: Brian Williams <bwcal(AT)SPRYNET.COM>
Date: 12 Nov 2001 1:07pm
That was some great investigative work, Noel! Knowing Hermit Thrush
calls "well" out here in California, I expected to recognize the call
immediately. But those calls didn't ring familiar at all. Of course I
don't wake to Hermit Thrushes outside my window, but that is a new one
for me.
Brian Williams
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Noel Wamer
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 8:36 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Hermit Thrush Call - Summary & More
I would like to thank everyone who responded to my post. My conjecture
that it is the so-called nocturnal fight call was confirmed by an
experienced bird recordist. This call can be found on the Stokes
eastern
recording. Several persons suggested that the calling birds might have
been migrants that had just landed at dawn. I do not think this is the
case as I have been hearing the calls on a daily basis for the past
week. I did hear the call yesterday as late as 10:30 am.
This morning the thrushes started to call at 6:31 am (civil twilight -
6:25, sunrise - 6:50). One bird was calling from woods adjacent to the
yard, and two more distant individuals were heard. The close calling
bird
was perched in the upper canopy, about 40 feet off the ground. I played
a
brief recording, which resulted in the thrush immediately stopping its
call
and flying down into the underbrush at the edge of the yard. After
landing
the bird started making chup calls in an agitated way. It was rapidly
flicking its wings and tail, and seemed to be looking for an intruder.
Later this morning (10:45 am), after not having heard any thrush
vocalizations for about an hour, I stepped into the edge of the woods
and
began to play the recording. Within a minute or two, an obviously
agitated
and chupping Hermit Thrush appeared and approached to within ten feet.
Based upon the responses to the playbacks, I think that it is safe to
speculate that this call serves for winter (and migration?) territorial
advertisement, as well as nocturnal flight call.
Later...
Noel Wamer
Jacksonville, FL, US
The Virtual 'Hood: http://www.badbirdz.com/dripperCam.htm
"Even in its most primitive form, naming is a kind of judgment."
(Walker Percy)
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Snipe Quiz: answer and more...
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 12 Nov 2001 8:23pm
Dear All,
Last week I posted a URL for a Snipe quiz; I have now updated this page
with a link to more pages that reveal the collection data for these
thirteen specimens:
http://www.martinreid.com/snipe4.html - but to summarize: birds 5, 6, and 7
were from the Americas, while the rest were from Europe. On the first data
page:
http://www.martinreid.com/snipe4re.html I have also displayed sample
secondary tips from nearly all of these birds, while on the second data page:
http://www.martinreid.com/snipe4rx.html I have shown some other features
of these specimens (tertials, underwing, etc.)
The purpose of this quiz was to see if you feel, as I do, that published
criteria are somewhat inadequate for separating a vagrant delicata or
gallinago in the range of the other form. I am preparing a tentative set
of "rules" for delicata/gallinago identification, and will soon share a
draft with you for comments.
While I am Sniping, I have added two more pages of comparisons for the bird
I saw recently in Fort Worth that has some of the stronger characteristics
of gallinago:
http://www.martinreid.com/snipe2.html - comments would be most welcome -
thank you.
Cheers,
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com or http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: dark juv. gull in Mass.
From: Steve Hampton <shampton(AT)OSPR.DFG.CA.GOV>
Date: 13 Nov 2001 11:05am
A photographer took a photo of a strange gull and wants to know what it is:
http://www.brownphoto.com/gull.htm
My guess is Western Gull (but it seems too brown) or some kind of aberrantly
dark Herring Gull (the "Dark Chocolate form"). It's an excellent photo. Note
the all dark rectrices, primaries, secondaries, and upper greater coverts. The
bill shape is hard to judge with his beak open.
Comments?
Steve Hampton, Ph.D.
_____________________
Resource Economist
Office of Spill Prevention and Response
California Dept of Fish and Game
PO Box 944209
Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
-----------------------------------
(916) 323-4724 phone
(916) 324-8829 fax
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: dark juv. gull in Mass.
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 13 Nov 2001 11:49am
> http://www.brownphoto.com/gull.htm
Looks like a dark 1st-basic American Herring Gull (HEGU) to me. Really dark
birds with solidly dark heads and chests are in my experience not that uncommon
on the east coast. The solid dark tail and heavily marked upper tail coverts
seem good for HEGU. I might have expected more
contrast on the inner primaries but perhaps this is reduced in darker birds or
is obscured by the angle?
I think Western Gull can be eliminated on the basis of:
- lack of pale tips to the secondaries (see Greg Lasley's photo on Martin Reid's
site http://www.martinreid.com/wegup03.html)
- bill shape (although angle poor, seems to lack the characteristic deep gonys)
- location
Thanks to Steve for pointing out this interesting photo. Of course, I'd be
interest in other opinions............
Cheers, Angus Wilson
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: dark juv. gull in Mass.
From: Phil Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 13 Nov 2001 12:27pm
Looks like a very dark and filled in Herring to me. In any case I
don't think it's a Western - the bill base seems well on its way to
paling, the flat part of the culmen is too long, and there is a trace of
Herring-like regular barring on the edges of the outermost rects. The
projection of the eye socket also suggests to me that the forehead
and crown are quite flat, which would be much better for Herring.
Most Westerns have begun to show some fading and wear as early
as November, and look noticeably paler than this bird (at least the
occidentalis I'm familiar with). This bird seems quite fresh, more
typical of juvenile Herring in November. Also, many or most Westerns
have already dropped or are replacing their upper juvenile scaps
by November, and this bird seems to still have them, as far as I can
tell.
Cheers,
Phil Pickering
Lincoln City, Oregon
philliplc(AT)harborside.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Hampton <shampton(AT)OSPR.DFG.CA.GOV>
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 10:07 AM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] dark juv. gull in Mass.
>A photographer took a photo of a strange gull and wants to know what it is:
>
>http://www.brownphoto.com/gull.htm
>
>My guess is Western Gull (but it seems too brown) or some kind of aberrantly
dark Herring Gull (the "Dark
Chocolate form"). It's an excellent photo. Note the all dark rectrices,
primaries, secondaries, and upper
greater coverts. The bill shape is hard to judge with his beak open.
>
>Comments?
>Steve Hampton, Ph.D.
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: BIRDGGO1 Re: Dark gull in Mass.
From: Dave Irons <Irons5(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 13 Nov 2001 2:02pm
I have to agree with others that this bird is not a Western Gull. It lacks
the heavily spangled wing coverts that I expect to see on a juv. Western.
Juvenile occidentalis (which I see normally) show a rather striking contrast
between the spangled wing coverts and solid dark primaries and secondaries.
Angus points out that a Western would show light trailing edges to the
secondaries which this bird clearly doesn't. This bird is overall more
suggestive of a very dark juv. Herring Gull. I am troubled by the apparent
lack of the trailing 'window' on the inner primaries that is typical of
Herring.
The bill appears to lack the thickness (hard to tell from this photo) and
certainly lacks the gonydeal angles of a Western. The bill seems rather
long and 'rakish' which points to Herring.
All that said, this individual is not typical of a Herring Gull in a couple
aspects and probably falls into the massive scrapheap of gulls that can't be
certainly ID'd.
Dave Irons
Irons5(AT)aol.com
Eugene, OR
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Snipe Quiz: answer and more...
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 13 Nov 2001 2:23pm
So Martin who won the quiz and what will the winner get?
Norman
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: dark. juv. gull in MA: bill structure
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 13 Nov 2001 5:01pm
Friends, I find the head shape and bill shape of the Danvers, MA
bird extremely odd. To my way of thinking, the bill is very, very long
for smithsonianus HEGU. The upper mandible shows elongated, pronounced
downward curvature, which I do not associate with smithsonianus. The
lower mandible appears to lack evidence of a gonydal angle. If
anything, the bill looks to me like that of a fish-eating bird.
If all I could see was the head and the bill, I would wonder whether
I were dealing with some odd kind of cormorant.
I grant you that angle the bird presents to the camera affects what
I see. But I'm unable to account for the odd bill length and shape on
the basis of camera angle alone. Can anyone offer another possible
explanation?
I also find the shape of the top of the head very odd. It suggests
Ring-necked Duck.
Like everyone on this list (I assume), I've seen zillions of large
gulls in flight. I don't ever recall having seen the contorted head
shape that the Danvers bird presents.
As to the plumage, it most certainly suggests very dark juvenile
smithsonianus. I don't consider myself competent to speak to
occidentalis plumage. I find the remarks of those who are competent,
instructive.
Yours,
Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
Cambridge, MA
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: funky MA gull
From: David Fix and Jude Claire Power <dfxjcp(AT)HUMBOLDT1.COM>
Date: 13 Nov 2001 6:08pm
re: gull at www.brownphoto.com/gull.htm
If this is the only image of this gull available, my suggestion is to Let It
Go...remember that you experienced the bird, and forget you ever saw it. I
echo comments by others, esp. my gull-crazed '80s birding pals Irons and
Pickering in Oregon, that this is not a Western Gull. Irrespective of
plumage, its bill is wrong. There's no way it's a Western. No one from the
range of Western who knows that bird is going to agree with occidentalis.
Occam's Razor kicks in: Western should not enter the discussion unless and
until it is argued strongly that it is not a Herring Gull At the same time,
I would not agree with Phil that the projecting eye socket suggests a flat
crown, fitting Herring. If what is indicated in this one image plays out
true, then how can this bird have anything other than a DAMAGED eye socket?
It looks grotesque and unlike any gull I have seen at any angle. Don't tell
me we're looking up at the side-crown profile from below!
Thanks for the image to mull over.
Fix
"A birding god marks every sparrow of the fall"
/ Q. X. 'Larry' Taupirder, 1978
David Fix & Jude Claire Power
40'51"N 124'04"W
Nation of Humboldt
Klamath Konundrum, Gaia
Milky Way, Local Cluster
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: dark. juv. gull in MA: bill structure
From: Phil Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 13 Nov 2001 7:02pm
Interesting points made by Jim and Dave Fix. My point was that
the eye socket is usually not prominent on Westerns because their
crowns are comparatively rounded, while the often much flatter head
of Herring can sometimes make the eye socket seem somewhat
pronounced - but I'd agree not typically to this extreme extent.
I think the bill appears so long because the feathering at the
bill base is reduced (or lacking?) The gape also seems quite
prominent, even considering that the bill is slightly open, and
the muscular bulge below and behind the eye seems strangely
exposed. The top of the crown seems so low that it is virtually
level with the top of the eye socket. This bird could just be an
outright structural oddball, but perhaps it could also be that
there is something wrong with the head feathering. The head
almost looks like what I would envision the head of a large gull
would look like if it were totally unfeathered.
I'd have to vote for letting it go, too, although I do think the pattern
on the juvenile scaps and the faint tail markings are suggestive
of a bird that is at least part smithsonianus.
Cheers,
Phil Pickering
Lincoln City, Oregon
philliplc(AT)harborside.com
> Friends, I find the head shape and bill shape of the Danvers, MA
>bird extremely odd. To my way of thinking, the bill is very, very long
>for smithsonianus HEGU. The upper mandible shows elongated, pronounced
>downward curvature, which I do not associate with smithsonianus. The
>lower mandible appears to lack evidence of a gonydal angle. If
>anything, the bill looks to me like that of a fish-eating bird.
>
> If all I could see was the head and the bill, I would wonder whether
>I were dealing with some odd kind of cormorant.
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: E. Beach Tern Pictures. (fwd)
From: Laurent Raty <l_raty(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 14 Nov 2001 6:28am
Hi all,
Nobody seems to be willing to continue this thread on ID-Frontiers but,
being no member of TexBirds, I will use this ListServe once again to reach
the interested persons.
There's now a definite proof that two Elegant-type birds are present at
East Beach, Galveston, TX.
Jo Redden's pics
http://members.home.net/kinglet32/elegant_tern.htm
definitely show a different bird than the one that's pictured on Janet
Rathjen's images
http://www.geocities.com/janetrathjen/NewImages.html
and on the TBRC website
http://members.tripod.com/~tbrc/tern.htm
A simple look at the primaries shows that the individual with the unmarked
bill has several, black-looking, old outer primaries (4, I believe) and one
single, pale grey, fresh primary tip visible beyond the tertials (p6). I
think this bird's moult is suspended, though the pics are a bit too soft to
really see p7.
The other bird retains only 1 old primary and has 2 fresh primary tips well
visible beyond the tertials. This bird is in active moult, with a
two-third-grown feather visible on pic #3 on the TBRC website. By comparing
the wing structure on both birds, I now think the growing feather is p8, not
p9 as I previously wrote (p9 would be lacking or just starting to grow,
therefore). A white inner-web tongue is obvious on the old p10, even when
the wing is folded - it is immediately visible on any pic on which the wing
tip is not hidden behind some other bird.
Whatever the light, angle, or possibility of dirt smudging temporarily an
otherwise clean bill, it is totally impossible that these two birds be the
same individual.
Interestingly, on Jo Redden's images, the bird that lacks a black smudge on
the bill also seems to have consistently (though slightly) darker upperparts
than all the surrounding Sandwiches, which would be in better agreement with
the literature I have at hand.
Whether the other bird is a hybrid or not remains to be proved, but I would
urge any birder willing to have Elegant Tern on his Texas list (and still
sleep peacefully) to try to see the clean-billed individual as well.
All the best,
Laurent
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Birds and Dams
From: Caroline Kennedy <CKennedy(AT)DEFENDER.DEFENDERS.ORG>
Date: 14 Nov 2001 10:02am
I received the following request for information and am hoping
that someone on this listserve can assist with this. Thanks.
Forwarded Message:
Excuse for my poor english but I think you can understand me.
My name is Felipe Estela, I´m a ornithologist working in Sinu
River delta in Colombia, I was study bird community in this zone
to evaluate the impact or Urrá Dam. Do you know scientific
literature about problems for birds conservations in
estuaries or zones modificated by dams? I´m absolutelly
gratefully for any help that you can bring me!
best reggards
Felipe
http://netwinsite.com/dbabble/
Caroline Kennedy
Director of Special Projects
Species Conservation
Defenders of Wildlife
1101 14th Street, NW
Suite 1400
Washington, DC 20005
202-772-3207 Phone
202-682-0056 Fax
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject:
From: paullarkin <paullarkin(AT)PGEN.NET>
Date: 14 Nov 2001 10:22am
What Ho!
I am surprised that melanism has not been suggested wrt the MA gull.
Although Grant suggests that it does not occur in gulls, apparently
melanistic Black-headed Gulls have been documented and I have seen, an
apparent, 1st year Lesser Black-backed Gull with a similar uniform chocolate
colouration as the MA gull. The normal plumage markings, where present,
being very subdued. Given that smithsonianus (if that is what this bird is)
seem to be generally darker than European Herring Gulls in juv/1st year
plumage perhaps melanism is more likely to appear in that sub sp.
Paul
["I am prepared to consider evidence and accept if it satisfies me" - M.R.
James.]
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Milwaukee Larid
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 14 Nov 2001 10:22am
Yesterday in Milwaukee an observer was able to photograph a large larid with
a Lesser Black-backed (graellsii)-gray mantle. We have been seeing similar
birds in the Milwaukee Harbor for 10 years. This bird had dull pink legs and
a dirty-straw colored iris. These pictures provide an interesting study and
are worthy of some discussion. We believe these are from Great Black-backed
X Herring (smithonianus) pairings that have been observed in Green Bay
colonies about 150 miles north of Milwaukee. Some had initially been called
"Westerns".
Brian Boldt's digitals can be found at
http://community.webshots.com/album/24461851xulHLQFkbh
Other similar birds on the Web-
http://www.virtualbirder.com/simon/gul
http://petrel.best.vwh.net/GBBHEGU.html
John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Bicknell's Thrush
From: Roland Asteling <roland.asteling(AT)telia.com>
Date: 14 Nov 2001 11:42am
Hi all
I read in the last issue of the British Journal Ibis about something
called the Bicknell's website. Is there anybody out there how know about
such a place on the Web. Please reply to me privately.
All the best
Roland Asteling
SWEDEN
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Bicknell's Thrush
From: Jerry Tangren <tangren(AT)WSU.EDU>
Date: 14 Nov 2001 12:19pm
try http://www.tantramar.com/bicknell/e/
I found this site by bringing up www.google.com and typing in the
search words
Bicknell's Thrush
It was at the top of the list. If this not the site for which
you're looking, google returns a list of about 100 sites for this
search.
Hope this helps.
--Jerry <tangren(AT)wsu.edu>
>Hi all
>
>I read in the last issue of the British Journal Ibis about something
>called the Bicknell's website. Is there anybody out there how know about
>such a place on the Web. Please reply to me privately.
>
>All the best
>
>Roland Asteling
>SWEDEN
--
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Bicknell's Thrush
From: Blake Maybank <maybank(AT)NS.SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 14 Nov 2001 12:26pm
At 07:42 PM 11/14/2001 +0100, you wrote:
>I read in the last issue of the British Journal Ibis about something
>called the Bicknell's website. Is there anybody out there how know about
>such a place on the Web. Please reply to me privately.
I'm sending this to the discussion group, as others might be interested in
the answer.
The Canadian Wildlife Service maintains a site on the Bicknell's Thrush.
The URL is:
http://www.ns.ec.gc.ca/wildlife/bicknells_thrush/e/index.html
Good Birding,
Blake Maybank
maybank(AT)birdingtheamericas.com
Birding the Americas - Trip Report & Planning Repository
http://www.birdingtheamericas.com
"The National Parks and Other Wild Places of Canada"
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/maybank/book.htm
White's Lake, Nova Scotia
CANADA
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Bicknell's Thrush
From: Chris Tessaglia-Hymes <cth4(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 14 Nov 2001 12:48pm
A quick search for Bicknell's Thrush and Vermont Institute of Natural
Science (VINS) produced the homepage for VINS
<http://www.vinsweb.org/index.html>. A search on their site for
Bicknell's Thrush poduced a link to the following "Bicknell's Home
Page" <http://www.ns.ec.gc.ca/wildlife/bicknells_thrush/>. It's
available in both English and French.
Good birding!
Sincerely,
Chris T-H.
On Wed, 14 Nov 2001, Roland Asteling wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I read in the last issue of the British Journal Ibis about something
> called the Bicknell's website. Is there anybody out there how know about
> such a place on the Web. Please reply to me privately.
>
> All the best
>
> Roland Asteling
> SWEDEN
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Larid
From: "Robert H. Lewis" <lewis(AT)BWAY.NET>
Date: 14 Nov 2001 1:31pm
on 11/14/01 12:24 PM, John Idzikowski at idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU wrote:
> Yesterday in Milwaukee an observer was able to photograph a large larid with
> a Lesser Black-backed (graellsii)-gray mantle. We have been seeing similar
> birds in the Milwaukee Harbor for 10 years. This bird had dull pink legs and
> a dirty-straw colored iris. These pictures provide an interesting study and
> are worthy of some discussion. We believe these are from Great Black-backed
> X Herring (smithonianus) pairings that have been observed in Green Bay
> colonies about 150 miles north of Milwaukee. Some had initially been called
> "Westerns".
>
>
> Brian Boldt's digitals can be found at
>
> http://community.webshots.com/album/24461851xulHLQFkbh
>
> Other similar birds on the Web-
>
> http://www.virtualbirder.com/simon/gul
>
> http://petrel.best.vwh.net/GBBHEGU.html
>
>
> John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
The virtualbirder url above came up void when I just tried it. I think
you mean http://www.virtualbirder.com/simon/gull.html
This bird really looks like a Slaty-backed. Too bad we can't see the
legs, but otherwise everything seems to be within the range of Slaty-backed.
In particular, over all size of the bird, mantle color, large tertial
crescent, nature and extent of head-neck streaking, smudge around eye, bill
shape (little gonydeal bulge), bill coloring (flesh around base, yellow
tip), large white trailing edge to secondaries, under primary pattern, above
primary pattern. The famous "string of pearls" is not well marked, but
that's OK.
Arguing against GBBGxHEGU: large tertial crescent, nature and extent of
head-neck streaking, bill shape (little gonydeal bulge), bill coloring
(flesh around base, yellow tip), large white trailing edge to secondaries.
A lot of Slaty-backed images are on my gull web site,
http://www.bway.net/~lewis/birds/gulls.html
especially
http://www.bway.net/~lewis/birds/gulls.html#achart
http://www.bway.net/~lewis/birds/gulls.html#pposts
See also "Hatteras mystery bird 2",
http://www.bway.net/~lewis/birds/mys2/mys2.html
Bob Lewis
Sleepy Hollow NY
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Scilly Skua
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)APPLEONLINE.NET>
Date: 14 Nov 2001 3:52pm
I have recently been building an extensive page of catharacta skua pictures,
primarily with the aim of resolving remaining dilemmas concerning the
identification of large skuas in Senegal. In the meantime I have posted 4
pictures of a skua that turned up injured on St. Agnes, Scilly Isles this
last October. It can be seen on:
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=452&group_id=430
These pictures were taken by Dave Hatton and Simon Stirrup to whom I am
grateful.
If you troll around the whole skua section - you will find other enigmas:
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=347&group_id=0
Comments and ideas welcome.
Dick Newell
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Bicknell's Thrush
From: Richard Stern <rbstern(AT)NS.SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 14 Nov 2001 4:17pm
Hi,
http://www.atl.ec.gc.ca/wildlife/bicknells_thrush/e/index.html -- An
excellent web site from the Canadian Wildlife Service, with all kinds of
info. including video and recordings.
####################
Richard Stern
Kentville
Nova Scotia
Canada
rbstern(AT)ns.sympatico.ca
####################
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Asteling" <roland.asteling(AT)telia.com>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: November 14, 2001 2:42 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Bicknell's Thrush
> Hi all
>
> I read in the last issue of the British Journal Ibis about something
> called the Bicknell's website. Is there anybody out there how know about
> such a place on the Web. Please reply to me privately.
>
> All the best
>
> Roland Asteling
> SWEDEN
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Larid
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 15 Nov 2001 6:09am
Dear All,
I find myself agreeing with just about everything that Bob Lewis said on
the Milwaukee bird - but I must qualify my comments by saying I've seen
precisely one definite SBGU ( the 3rd-basic type Texas record).
I recommend those not familiar with SBGU to browse the excellent array of
images at the Ujiharas' site:
http://isweb15.infoseek.co.jp/animal/larus/slayty.html
To Bob's comments I would add that the stage of primary molt, the shape of
the neck (longish) and head (rounded, with peak ahead of eye imparting a
gentle look) all seem very typical of SBGU. The slightly less-than-pale
eye also looks fine for SBGU.
My only concerns are with the primary pattern. Aging this bird is
difficult, but based on the adult-like bill and clean state of all the
feathers except the smudged retrices, it looks to me like a 4th-basic
type. P4 has a narrow but obvious black subterminal bar; This is
troubling in that I cannot find any evidence that even 3B SBGUs have such a
mark on P4, let alone older birds. P8 appears to lack any hint of a paler
gray tongue on the inner web (this may be obscured by P7, but I feel that
enough of P8 is visible for such a tongue to be evident), and the tongues
on P7 and P6 have just the tiniest amount of white fringing between the
gray and the black subterminal bar - this too is hard to find even on 3B
birds, and may at best be a rare pattern for a 4B-type SBGU.
Assuming my concerns above can be allayed, I'd feel pretty good about this
as a SBGU.
Cheers,
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com or http://www.cyberramp.net/~upupa
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Milwaukee Larid
From: Peter Adriaens <Peter.Adriaens(AT)KENDER-THIJSSEN.BE>
Date: 15 Nov 2001 7:35am
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Regarding the primary pattern of Slaty-backed Gull: there is a series of
photographs on the Yukon Gullery
(http://www.yukonweb.com/community/ybc/gullery.html) that may prove
interesting. These photographs show an apparently fully adult Slaty-backed
Gull which DOES show a thin, but complete (or nearly so) black subterminal
bar on p4. In addition, the bird also has thinner white tongue-tips than
usual, to the extent that the effect of a white 'string of pearls' is
reduced.
See especially http://www.yukonweb.com/community/ybc/sbgu_99d.jpg.
The photographs are from early September; the bird is halfway through its
primary moult (p6 growing).
The Milwaukee bird is certainly a subadult (4th or 3rd year). I guess its
primary pattern may still be within the variation in Slaty-backed (though
rather not typical).
Best regards,
Peter Adriaens
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Scilly Skua
From: Pierre-Andre Crochet <crochet(AT)CRIT.UNIV-MONTP2.FR>
Date: 15 Nov 2001 8:28am
Dear all,
I have certainly no opinion on this bird and no competence to help Dick
with his skuas... but I would like to remind you all that with genetics, we
might have an easy and quick answer for the captive bird. If a feather base
or a drop of blood had been kept from this bird, it would be an easy job
for a lab working on skua genetics (they are several) to say if it was born
in the Northern or Southern hemisphere.
Only Swedes seem to think of the use of genetic tools to identify vagrant
birds. What a pitty. How many birds of contentious ID have been caught
without any sample being taken...
Only mitochondrial DNA sequencing is widely available for all bird species
at the moment. So you can only identify the mother of the contentious bird
(in the case of the skuas, where no hybrids between bonxie and southern
skuas could be suspected, it is quite enough). But it is only a matter of
years before large number of nuclear sequences are available, allowing to
detect hybrids.
Let's keep samples! It's easier than taking a picture and usually much more
conclusive.
Cheers,
Pierre-Andre Crochet
Laboratoire de Biogeographie et Ecologie des Vertebres
EPHE - c.c. 94
Universite Montpellier II
Place Eugene Bataillon
34095 Montpellier cedex
France
crochet(AT)univ-montp2.fr
tel: + 33 (0)4 67 14 32 90
mobile + 33 (0)6 07 32 60 75
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Whip-poor-will in British Columbia
From: Don Cecile <dcecile(AT)SD22.BC.CA>
Date: 15 Nov 2001 9:02pm
Hi all, an amazing discovery was made on the west coast of Vancouver
Island. An observer found a dead Whip-poor-will on Nov. 5 and placed it in
his freezer. Below is part of a message that was sent to me:
Too much white on the tail for a Poor-will, and the tail is too long. Also
it has a black stripe on the edge
of the tail plus the wings are quite dark underneath. The specimen had been
dead for at least a week so it is quite high. I took it home and removed
one wing and the tail and took measures to dry them out as quick as
possible. (feathers were already falling out). Any idea on how you tell the
south-western ones from the eastern one?
My understanding is that distinguishing the two types would be nearly
impossible in the field, but perhaps he has enough feathers or hard-parts
to assist in a sub-specific identification?
Responses either public or private would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Don
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Late Pewee in Wisconsin
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 16 Nov 2001 12:49pm
As expected there was no way to identify this bird to species; respondents
remarked on its darkness but felt that it was in the range of variation for
a juv. Eastern Wood Pewee and some remarked that the vested breast pattern,
although dark, may in fact be darker for a Western and that the two wingbars
were very even in appearance: some Westerns having a less distinctive upper
wingbar. The call note we heard when described was short and dry much like
an Eastern's. This bird was Wisconsin's latest fall departure.
John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
----- Original Message -----
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)uwm.edu>
To: ID Frontiers <birdwg01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 1:01 PM
Subject: Late Pewee in Wisconsin
> This morning a very late Pewee was photographed in Milwaukee in poor light
> under overcast skies. It struck me as being very dark for our typical
> Easterns in spite of the light. I don't expect that we will able to be
> confident about an identification but I have posted the digitals of this
> bird to solicit comments anyway.
>
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1596768&a=13959384
>
> John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Whip in British Columbia
From: Andrew Kratter <kratter(AT)FLMNH.UFL.EDU>
Date: 16 Nov 2001 1:31pm
Don et al.,
A Whip-poor-will on Vancouver Island is indeed a spectacular find.
Your bird must be a male, if it has large white tail patches (which is
reduced on the outer web, so the black base extends farther distally).
According to Pyle, C. v. arizonae of the southwest US is larger (males,
wing 162-179, tail 114-135 vs. for the eastern nominate subspecies
wing 149-169, tail 114-128), has pale buff central rectrices contrasting
"only moderately" with the back color (vs. central rectrices gray or brown
contrasting with darker back), has reduced white on rectrices 3-5 (37-55 mm
from tip vs. 43-65 mm), and has longer rictal bristles (longest 35-60 mm
vs. 25-45 mm). Hopefully you saved the whole carcass along with wings and
tail for donation to a museum. There are probably plenty of other details
and measurements both from the skin and skeleton that could help
differentiate the two subspecies. There are a handful of museum
preparators who do excellent work in putting together rotted specimens, and
skeletons can make excellent vouchers as well.
Andy Kratter
Dr. Andrew Kratter, Collections Manager- Ornithology
Florida Museum of Natural History
PO Box 117800
University of Florida
Gainesville, FL 32611 USA
Ph. (352) 392-3293
Fax (352) 846-0287
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/
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