ID-FRONTIERS for December 9-15, 2001

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   GlaucXHerring   paullarkin    Sun, 9 Dec 2001   10:40am   Re: Glaucous x Herring Gulls   Dick Newell    Sun, 9 Dec 2001   1:18pm   Re: Glaucous x Herring Gulls   Dick Newell    Sun, 9 Dec 2001   3:58pm   Re: Glaucous x Herring Gulls   Bruce Mactavish    Sun, 9 Dec 2001   7:21pm   Re: Glaucous x Herring Gulls   Norman D.van Swelm   Mon, 10 Dec 2001   11:43am   Mystery Gull in Trinidad   Floyd Hayes    Mon, 10 Dec 2001   1:28pm   Lesser Golfinch color morphs?   Ross Silcock    Tue, 11 Dec 2001   8:44pm   Re: [birds-pix] Re: Thayer's Gull (an identification attempt)   Alain Foss=?ISO-8859   Wed, 12 Dec 2001   12:11am   Can you identify that bird ?   Michel Bertrand    Wed, 12 Dec 2001   1:01pm   Italy. Third Common Loon since mid-November, with photos   =?iso-8859-1?q?Menot   Thu, 13 Dec 2001   9:28am   NY "mystery" Archilochus hummingbird   andyguthrie@earthlin   Thu, 13 Dec 2001   11:04am   NY mystery Archilochus hummingbird - website address   andyguthrie@earthlin   Thu, 13 Dec 2001   11:58am   Re: NY mystery Archilochus hummingbird - website address   Harry Legrand    Thu, 13 Dec 2001   12:52pm   Horned Lark   Brian Small    Fri, 14 Dec 2001   10:28am   Nazca Booby   Joseph Morlan    Sat, 15 Dec 2001   3:58pm

To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'. This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.

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Subject: GlaucXHerring
From: paullarkin <paullarkin(AT)PGEN.NET>
Date: 9 Dec 2001 10:40am

What Ho!

Nice to see GlaucXHerring/Leucistic/brown winged gull are coming back to
haunt us. I can only agree with Peter Adriaens comments. I have always
wondered where the adults go or do they just become indistinguishable from
argentatus? Has anyone seen one?

A candidate for an adult was in North Kent UK on 4th Nov 2001. The bird was
at the small range for HG, slightly larger than LBBG, had a mantle and wings
slightly paler than the YL Gulls present with pink legs and a heavily
streaked head. The primaries were all white except for a small portion of
the outer web of P10 which was black and P8 & 9 which had a small black
triangular mark stretching from the inner web to the shaft. Except in very
close views of the bird gliding with spread wings it appeared white winged.
When bathing the black marks could just be seen. The primaries looked
somewhat short suggesting they were still growing. One would think the bird
was too small and dark mantled to be a GlaucXHerring and too dark to be an
Iceland X Herring (if such a beast exists).

Paul

["I am prepared to consider evidence and accept if it satisfies me" -  M.R.
James.]


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Subject: Re: Glaucous x Herring Gulls
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
Date: 9 Dec 2001 1:18pm

Thank you all for replying - I think if I posted this lot on ID frontiers it
would drive the larophobes nuts!
From replies received from my previous post, the received wisdom seems to
be, following Peter Grant's opinions on page 262 of his book, that European
"Herring" Gulls with pale fringes to the primaries are Herring Gulls.
I would like to challenge this assumption.
Presumably also some hybrid Herring x Glaucous Gulls will have pale fringes.
How do you distinguish these from the ones that are Herring Gulls? And the
question is, where did the ones that are considered Herring Gulls get this
trait from?
 There are 3 possibilities:
1 they evolved it on their own - in my (non extensive) experience, all of
the juveniles within any one colony look rather consistent, but no-one seems
to know of a colony of Herring Gulls where all of the juveniles have pale
primary fringes.
2 albinism/leucism - in this case I would have thought that the whole
primary would be pale rather than just the fringes.
3 inherited by hybridisation from Glaucous Gull (let's forget Iceland Gull
in this)
If one looks at the distribution maps for Herring Gull and Glaucous Gull in
BWP, they do not overlap, but they get close in Iceland and at the eastern
end of the Kola peninsular. We know that hybrids are produced in Iceland,
and Harry Lehto says he believes that his white-fringed gulls in Finland
come from the eastern end of the Kola - exactly where one might expect
hybridisation to occur (they didn't say what % of birds had fringed
primaries). Tony Marr (pers comm) witnessed a Herring Gull paired with a
Glaucous Gull in Svalbard.
As these birds do not seem to occur in populations of Herring Gulls breeding
a long distance from Glaucous colonies, I put my money on this being a trait
derived from Glaucous Gull. Just how many back crosses you need before you
cease calling it a hybrid and calling it just a pale Herring Gull I would
not know. Does the Lehto term "Proper Hybrid" just mean 1st generation or
would they extend the term beyond that.

The question - where are the adults, if there are so many of these
pale-fringed juvs is a good one. Could they be the thayeri type adults with
minimal black in the wingtips and a cachinnans-type tongue on the inner web
of P10? - without having done the counting, they are similarly scarce.

Peter Adriens and the Lehto's challenge all 3 of the birds that I have
labelled hybrid - so I suppose I should put up some defensive argumentation.
(or I could shut up!)

The first bird:
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=462&group_id=478

This bird shows the following traits of Glaucous Gull:
- sub-terminal chevrons (arrows) on the ends of the primaries
- a strong hint of a broken eye-ring
- a totally unbanded tail
- whether you read the scapulars as 2nd generation or 1st generation - they
look remarkably like the wriggly line effect on 1st generation Glaucous
scapulars.
I think this bird could well be a 1st generation hybrid.

The third bird:
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=479&group_id=478&search=
- This bird also shows the sub-terminal chevrons on the primaries
- It has the pink bill base of a Glaucous Gull
- an obvious broken eye-ring
- it looks very like a Glaucous Gull in flight.
I would guess this bird to be a first generation hybrid also

The second bird:
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=468&group_id=478&search=
This is not so clear cut
- it shows a hint of sub-terminal dark marks to the primaries
- again the upper scapulars (1st gen or 2nd gen?) look like ripples and the
lower 1st geberation scapulars have obvious white centres. I did not see
this bird fly.
This bird may not be a first generation hybrid, but I would lay a bet that
it has Glaucous in its ancestry somewhere.

Chris Kehoe kindly pointed me at another bird:
http://www.wheatear.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Silver%20Gull/1st_winter_Htbrid_tt_
march01_nsfq.jpg

This not only has a lot of white in the primaries, a hint of a pale bill
base, a broken eye-ring and covert and tertial patterning that more
resembles Glaucous Gull than Herring Gull - I would vote this bird as a
hybrid as well - even though it does not exhibit sub-terminal chevrons.

Frede Falkenberg has just added this bird to the Norwegian Gull page:
http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/ufo/hybrid_1w_01.php3
- again chevrons
- no tail band
- a hint of a broken eye-ring

I don't know of any evidence that supports the alternative hypothesis that
the traits that I am using here occur in a pure Herring Gull without
Glaucous involvement and I don't buy the argument that all these birds are
leucistic.

Who is going to catch some of these things and get a DNA sample? - otherwise
we'll be arguing for ever! - unless we only catch ones whose mum is a
Herring Gull.
Dick


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Subject: Re: Glaucous x Herring Gulls
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
Date: 9 Dec 2001 3:58pm

In replying to Frode, may I first apologise for sending my previous message
to the whole list - I didn't mean to, I was careless. Anyway - now that we
are into boring the pants off all larophobes - my reply to Frode:
Is this a smith hybrid or argenteus hybrid?  Whatever it is, it seems to
show reduced black, rather than diluted black (i.e. grey) - thus supporting
my tentative hypothesis that it may be the thayeri type argentatus that are
the adults of those birds that start life with pale primary fringes.
Dick

On 9/12/01 9:49 PM, "Frode Falkenberg" <falken(AT)sisyfos.zoo.uib.no> wrote:

> At 20:16 09.12.01 +0000, you wrote:
>> The question - where are the adults, if there are so many of these
>> pale-fringed juvs is a good one. Could they be the thayeri type adults with
>> minimal black in the wingtips and a cachinnans-type tongue on the inner web
>> of P10?
>
> Two images of a presumed adult hybrid from Greenland in June 2001 (breeding
> with Glaucous Gull) can be seen at http://irania.dk/photos.asp?offset=40
>
>
> Best wishes from
> Frode Falkenberg
>
> Department of Zoology
> Allégaten 41
> 5007 Bergen
> http://cyberbirding.uib.no/
> Cell/SMS: +4793440647
>


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Subject: Re: Glaucous x Herring Gulls
From: Bruce Mactavish <bruce.mactavish1(AT)NF.SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 9 Dec 2001 7:21pm

The first gull in Dick Newell's web page is similar to many photographs
labeled as Glaucous X Herring hybrids that are published in European
birding magazines. They look like pale Herring Gulls. This is remarkable
since the same hybrid combination in eastern North America produces a
completely different bird.  The 1st winters generally looking like a
Glaucous Gull with darker primaries and tail band. We must be dealing
with a different combination of genes in perhaps both the Glaucous Gull
and Herring Gull. Dick Newell's question was could these pale Herring
Gull -like birds be pure Herring Gulls. After my experience this summer
at the town of Inuvik, in the Mackenzie River Delta, in western
Northwest Territories I can imagine that they are hybrid Glaucous x
Herring.

Herring Gulls reach their northern breeding range and Glaucous Gull
their southern limit around Inuvik.  Glaucous Gulls outnumbered Herrings
at the local dump 3:1 on average.  The Glaucous Gulls are the small race
(barrovianus).  The Herring Gulls are presently lumped in with all the
Herring Gulls breeding in North America (smithsonianus), but compared to
the breeding Herring Gulls of Atlantic Canada that I am most familiar
with, they are a smaller, more lightly built with distinctly more black
in the primary tips and perhaps darker upper parts.  They resembled
argenteus of Britain more than east coast N. American smithsonianus.
The juveniles were similar to the typical uniform dark brown eastern
smithsonianus.

It was obvious in the June adults that there were many (10+ %) hybrid
Glaucous X Herring hybrids at the Inuvik dump.  In late August and
September the juveniles began appearing at the dump. Some were still
begging food from adult Glaucous Gulls.  Many of the juveniles were
difficult to identify.  Some had plumage features close to kumlieni,
some like glaucoides, some like thayeri, some looked like muddy
Glaucous. They were generally Herring Gull in shape with combinations of
thick scapular markings, odd markings in outer primaries and bill
colours that did not match the kumlieni/ glaucoides/ thayeri complex.
Many were surprisingly like the 'classic' European version of hybrid
Herring x Glaucous, i.e. like the first gull in Dick Newell's three
examples.  The pure juv Herring Gulls were obvious in their fairly
uniform dark chocolate plaumage, blackish primaries and largely uniform
dark tail.  Pure juv Glaucous were very few.  It is possible that
juvenile barrovianus are darker plumaged with poorly defined pink and
black bills compared to eastern North American Glaucous.

The Inuvik scene is proof that a population of hybrid Glaucous x Herring
gulls can thrive.  Inuvik Glaucous Gulls, and perhaps the hybrids,
winter mainly north of the west coast birding population so are not
often encountered.

In Iceland 50k pairs Lesser Black-backed Gulls leave the island in the
winter. What about the Herring Gulls and hybrid offspring? Perhaps a
significant number of the Icelandic hybrid Herring x Glaucous gull
population migrate to mainland Europe in the winter, and maybe on a
schedule unrelated to Iceland Gulls and Glaucous Gulls.

Bruce Mactavish
St. John's, Newfoundland
Canada

bruce.mactavish1(AT)nf.sympatico.ca


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Subject: Re: Glaucous x Herring Gulls
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 10 Dec 2001 11:43am

Bruce wrote:>In Iceland 50k pairs Lesser Black-backed Gulls leave the island
in the
>winter. What about the Herring Gulls and hybrid offspring? Perhaps a
>significant number of the Icelandic hybrid Herring x Glaucous gull
>population migrate to mainland Europe in the winter, and maybe on a
>schedule unrelated to Iceland Gulls and Glaucous Gulls.<

Only one Herring Gull from our Icelandic project was seen in Ireland but
then only a few have been colour-ringed!

I have read the ring of a typical pale 1st winter Herring Gull as described
by Dick and it had been ringed as a chick near Tromsó in northern Norway.
There exists a well written article  by Marc Golley with nice illustrations
from Martin Elliott published in Birding World which deals with pale young
Herring Gulls. They are considered to be Larus argentatus argentatus the
race that breeds from Tromsó northwards. Although I don't doubt that these
birds have Glaucous genes in them they don't look like Glaucous. Apart from
being pale as well as having a bi-colored bill they have a typical Herring
gull jizz as have the birds in Dick's photo's.

During our expedition to study L.f.heuglini on the Kanin peninsula in NW
Russia, Pranas Mierauskas took a photo of an adult Glaucous which shows a
minute quantity of black in a some primaries.
I found a dead adult here in the Port of Rotterdam some years ago that fits
the description of 'nelsoni' by Dwight. This bird has typical  white
wing-tips of Glaucous but also has a few dark smudges on some of the outer
primaries. Interestingly this bird has a dark grey mantle perhaps indicating
L.a.argentatus origin.

Only in one winter have I seen 1st winter birds that had visible Glaucous
features such as the typical 'clouded' pattern of the body feathers and
massive skull and small eye.

Pale juvenile birds can occasionally be found among L.a.argenteus as well.

And then of course there are the very unusual pale birds I found and which
can be seen on Martin Reid's website, one (the big bird) a Glaucous-winged
rather than Glaucous and the other (small) bird which is still without name!
Norman


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Subject: Mystery Gull in Trinidad
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 10 Dec 2001 1:28pm

Here's one for the most "gullible" experts only. Three distant but
tantalizing photos, accompanied by rather amateurish descriptions, of an
unexpectedly pale first-winter "mystery gull" in Trinidad (NE South America)
are posted at:

http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttmysterygull

The photos were taken on ASA 400 film by a Nikon N60 camera attached to a
Bushnell Spacemaster telescope; they were scanned with a CanoScan FS 2710
slide scanner at 2720 dpi. I don't think I can do anything to improve the
images.

Nevertheless, I'm intrigued by the size and shape of the head and bill in
the photos, as well as one observer's description of the underwing.
Hopefully we'll relocate this monster and get some better photos (it's
eluded me five consecutive days). Any speculative comments on its identity
would be gratefully entertained.

This bird was found along Trinidad's west coast, which hosts about 5,000
wintering Laughing Gulls. Last winter we had at least two adult Kelp Gulls
(major distributional record), two Franklin's Gulls, about ten Lesser
Black-backed Gulls, a Ring-billed Gull (possibly two) and a Black-headed
Gull. So far this winter we've seen a Franklin's Gull, three Lesser
Black-backed Gulls and a Ring-billed Gull--plus this weirdo. Photos (usually
better) of all these species, along with some other outstanding rarities
(e.g., first South American records of Western Reef-Heron, Eurasian
Spoonbill and Black-tailed Godwit), are also posted at the new Southeastern
Caribbean Birds Photo Gallery:

http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds

Floyd E. Hayes
Lecturer in Zoology
*********************************************
Department of Life Sciences
University of the West Indies
St. Augustine
Trinidad and Tobago
Tel: 868-645-3233 x2206
Fax: 868-663-5241
Website: http://www.geocities.com/floyd_hayes
*********************************************

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


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Subject: Lesser Golfinch color morphs?
From: Ross Silcock <silcock(AT)ROSSSILCOCK.COM>
Date: 11 Dec 2001 8:44pm

 Hi all:
Peter Pyle's 1997 book ID Guide to N Am Birds, discusses the possibility of
polymorphism in Lesser Goldfinches and cites a paper in press by Watt and
Willoughby. Has this been published?  Does anyone have any further
information on the taxonomy of Lesser Goldfinch, with particular reference
to the status of green- and black-backed forms?
Ross

Ross Silcock
Tabor, IA  USA
silcock(AT)rosssilcock.com
New Zealand Land and Pelagic Tours
http://www.rosssilcock.com


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Subject: Re: [birds-pix] Re: Thayer's Gull (an
         identification attempt)
From: Alain Foss=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Angers France <alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: 12 Dec 2001 12:11am

Le 11·12·01 23:52, oscarpicasso2000 à dick.newell(AT)appleonline.net a écrit :

> I don't think you need to stretch the goal posts outside Thayer's
> Gull for these birds. As with smithsonianus they vary from
> chocolate to vanilla. In the climate of California, they are very
> much subject to bleaching - if you want to see an extreme
> example, taken much later in the winter see:
> http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=56&group_
> id=167

BTW, there¹s an ID paper about this species in the latest Alula review
<htt://www.alula.fi/> (9 photos + 5 plates):

    HOWELL St. N. G., ELLIOTT M. T., 2001.
    Identification and variation of winter adult Thayer¹s Gulls with
comments on taxonomy.
    Alula, 7(4): 130-144.

Best regards.

•============================================•
Alain Fossé,LPO Anjou,Montreuil-Juigné,France
47° 31' 34" N, 0° 35' 43" W
<alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com> or
<alfosse(AT)wanadoo.fr>
My digiscoping
<http://digimages.multimania.com/>
My French List of the Birds of the World
<http://listoiseauxmonde.multimania.com/>
Web Site LPO Anjou<http://www.lpo-anjou.org/>
•============================================•


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Subject: Can you identify that bird ?
From: Michel Bertrand <bertrmi(AT)COLBA.NET>
Date: 12 Dec 2001 1:01pm

Hi,

A new mystery bird is now shown on the webpage of the QuébecOiseaux quiz.
Have a look at the quiz no. 21 at
http://www.quebecoiseaux.qc.ca/HTML/Defi.html
or in the magazine. I hope you will have fun at identifying that bird and
that you will send me your answer.

You could help me by avoiding to include the present message with your
answer. I must print more than 200 answers to have a work copy for writing
my text for the following issue of the magazine and it would not be
ecological to print my message so often. It is a lot of work for me to
remove my message from all those answers and to save them in a new way
before printing them.

Please see the photos on the webpage and find, hereafter, a translation of
the French text of that page with a few more details.

THE TEXT OF THE WEBPAGE :

A bird is looking for food, underwater, on Saint.Lawrence river, early in
December. Despite that the distance and a light fog don't allow to see it
perfectly, can you recognize that bird ? Why are you concluding it is that
species ?

Send me your answer, before January 5th, by email to bertrmi(AT)colba.net or by
mail to Michel Bertrand, 900 rue des Paysans, Sainte-Julie, Qc, Canada, J3E
1K7. Don't forget to include your name and postal address to be qualified
for the draws. You could win one of the three one-year subscriptions to the
magazine QuébecOiseaux or the Paquin & Caron field guide to the birds of
Québec province and the Maritimes which will be drawn among the persons
having sent the right identification.

This friendly competition is held primarily in French, but answers sent in
English are welcomed.

The previous mystery bird was a Pine Warbler (Paruline des pins, Dendroica
pinus). A detailed text about its identification with quotations of many of
the received answers can be read in the magazine. I can send this text as a
DOC file to those who would like to read it but can't find the magazine. The
winners of quiz no. 20 have been Marc-André Denis, Marco Guzzo, Jim Wilson
and Carmen Bélanger.

Good luck.

     MICHEL BERTRAND
     Sainte-Julie, Qc
     bertrmi(AT)colba.net

N'oubliez pas d'identifier l'oiseau mystère :
Don't forget to identify the mystery bird at :
http://www.quebecoiseaux.qc.ca/HTML/Defi.html


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Subject: Italy. Third Common Loon since mid-November, with
          photos
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Menotti=20Passarella?= <aster_men(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 13 Dec 2001 9:28am

Hi all.

An influx of Great Northern Divers [Common Loons] took
place in NE Italy since mid-november. A total of three
birds had been recorded until today.

The list with photos:

1st. Po Delta, NE Italy, 10 to 12-nov-2001. Both
photos by Menotti Passarella:

http://www.ebnitalia.it/rarities/strolaghe.htm

http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/immer03

2nd. Artificil lake near Parma, NE Italy, 17-nov-2001
to early December 2001. Photo by Maurizio Ravasini:

http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/immer04

3rd. Po Delta NE Italy, 11-dec-2001. All photos by
Menotti Passarella

http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/immer11

http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/immer12

http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/immer08

These birds were the best twitchable of ever in Italy,
thanks to internet. The Common Loon is very rare in
the Mediterranean. While the second one is obviously a
juvenile, any suggestions about age of the other two ?

Cheers

Menotti Passarella
Italy
aster_men(AT)yahoo.com

______________________________________________________________________

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Per saperne di più vai alla pagina: http://buongiorno.yahoo.it


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Subject: NY "mystery" Archilochus hummingbird
From: "andyguthrie(AT)earthlink.net" <andyguthrie@earthlink.net>
Date: 13 Dec 2001 11:04am

I have set up a website with a description and pictures of the Archilochus
hummingbird that has been sporadically seen at Lenoir Preserve, Yonkers, NY
since Friday, December 7, 2001.

Comments regarding the identification would be greatly appreciated!  Current
consensus among the observers is that it is likely a Ruby-throated Hummingbird,
but our combined experience in separating Ruby-throated and Black-chinned is
minimal, and some features seem more positive for Black-chinned based on the
literature we have checked.  In summary:

Pointing to RTHU: upperparts color, underparts color, behavior, face pattern.

Potentially pointing to BCHU: Bill length, wing-to-tail length, wing shape(?)

I've heard second-hand that the Archilochus has been seen as recently as Tuesday
 although it is extremely sporadic.

The most recent edition of Bull's Birds of New York lists two December records
for Ruby-throated Hummingbird; no indication is given in the text of age/sex or
identification issues.  There are currently no records of Black-chinned
Hummingbird for NY.

Please reply to the list or directly to me - if replying to me, please let me
know if I can include your response in a public summary or in an update to the
website.

**Can someone please forward this to HUMNET?**

Cheers,
Andy Guthrie

Port Chester, NY
(25 miles NE of New York City)
andyguthrie(AT)earthlink.net

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mail2web - Check your email from the web at
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Subject: NY mystery Archilochus hummingbird - website
         address
From: "andyguthrie(AT)earthlink.net" <andyguthrie@earthlink.net>
Date: 13 Dec 2001 11:58am

Apologies, all!

Here is the website:

http://home.earthlink.net/~andyguthrie/ny_archilochus.htm

Thanks to everyone who pointed out my gross omission!

Andy Guthrie
Port Chester, NY
andyguthrie(AT)earthlink.net

Original Message:
-----------------
From: andyguthrie(AT)earthlink.net andyguthrie(AT)earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:04:24 -0500
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU, NYSBIRDS-L(AT)cornell.edu
Subject: [NYSBIRDS-L:7668] NY "mystery" Archilochus hummingbird

I have set up a website with a description and pictures of the Archilochus
hummingbird that has been sporadically seen at Lenoir Preserve, Yonkers, NY
since Friday, December 7, 2001.

Comments regarding the identification would be greatly appreciated!  Current
consensus among the observers is that it is likely a Ruby-throated Hummingbird,
but our combined experience in separating Ruby-throated and Black-chinned is
minimal, and some features seem more positive for Black-chinned based on the
literature we have checked.  In summary:

Pointing to RTHU: upperparts color, underparts color, behavior, face pattern.

Potentially pointing to BCHU: Bill length, wing-to-tail length, wing shape(?)

I've heard second-hand that the Archilochus has been seen as recently as Tuesday
 although it is extremely sporadic.

The most recent edition of Bull's Birds of New York lists two December records
for Ruby-throated Hummingbird; no indication is given in the text of age/sex or
identification issues.  There are currently no records of Black-chinned
Hummingbird for NY.

Please reply to the list or directly to me - if replying to me, please let me
know if I can include your response in a public summary or in an update to the
website.

**Can someone please forward this to HUMNET?**

Cheers,
Andy Guthrie

Port Chester, NY
(25 miles NE of New York City)
andyguthrie(AT)earthlink.net

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://mail2web.com/ .


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: NY mystery Archilochus hummingbird - website
         address
From: Harry Legrand <harry.legrand(AT)NCMAIL.NET>
Date: 13 Dec 2001 12:52pm

Birders:

I have to deal with many such hummingbirds in NC in winter, being the
Chairman of the state's records committee. We are reviewing some
Black-chinned (BCH) photos now. We also see quite a few winter
female/imm. Ruby-throated (RTH) along our coast; they have been banded
and measured for confirmation. (We do have some confirmed BCH in NC now
-- 3-4 records).

It looks like RTH to me. The bill is not overly long or decurved. The
back color probably isn't that helpful, but the head/crown looks fairly
dark. BCH females tend to be grayer or browner, giving a paler head
appearance than the back. RTH color is slightly darker so that the head
color often matches the back.

However, coloration is very tricky. The best feature in hand, and
sometimes in the field, is the curvature of the primaries. I assume
Donna's article mentions that.

In the field, the best way to tell is tail pumping when hovering at or
near the feeder. BCH constantly pumps the tail when hovering, RTH seldom
or just one or two. You wouldn't notice any tail pumping if it were a
RTH. Since the description of the bird has not mentioned tail pumping
(have people been looking for this?), that also makes me think the bird
is RTH. I think any observer would be impressed by the constant
tail-pumping of BCH that it would have been in the description given.

I don't quite want to say "assume it is an RTH unless proven otherwise",
but you'd have to do a lot of convincing for me to even think it is a
BCH.

Harry LeGrand
Chair, NC Bird Records Committee

"andyguthrie(AT)earthlink.net" wrote:
>
> Apologies, all!
>
> Here is the website:
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~andyguthrie/ny_archilochus.htm
>
> Thanks to everyone who pointed out my gross omission!
>
> Andy Guthrie
> Port Chester, NY
> andyguthrie(AT)earthlink.net
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: andyguthrie(AT)earthlink.net andyguthrie(AT)earthlink.net
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:04:24 -0500
> To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU, NYSBIRDS-L(AT)cornell.edu
> Subject: [NYSBIRDS-L:7668] NY "mystery" Archilochus hummingbird
>
> I have set up a website with a description and pictures of the Archilochus
hummingbird that has been sporadically seen at Lenoir Preserve, Yonkers, NY
since Friday, December 7, 2001.
>
> Comments regarding the identification would be greatly appreciated!  Current
consensus among the observers is that it is likely a Ruby-throated Hummingbird,
but our combined experience in separating Ruby-throated and Black-chinned is
minimal, and some features seem more positive for Black-chinned based on the
literature we have checked.  In summary:
>
> Pointing to RTHU: upperparts color, underparts color, behavior, face pattern.
>
> Potentially pointing to BCHU: Bill length, wing-to-tail length, wing shape(?)
>
> I've heard second-hand that the Archilochus has been seen as recently as
Tuesday although it is extremely sporadic.
>
> The most recent edition of Bull's Birds of New York lists two December records
 for Ruby-throated Hummingbird; no indication is given in the text of age/sex or
 identification issues.  There are currently no records of Black-chinned
Hummingbird for NY.
>
> Please reply to the list or directly to me - if replying to me, please let me
know if I can include your response in a public summary or in an update to the
website.
>
> **Can someone please forward this to HUMNET?**
>
> Cheers,
> Andy Guthrie
>
> Port Chester, NY
> (25 miles NE of New York City)
> andyguthrie(AT)earthlink.net
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .

--
Harry LeGrand
NC Natural Heritage Program
1615 MSC
Raleigh, NC 27699-1615
(919) 715-8687 (work)
FAX: 919-715-3085
e-mail: harry.legrand(AT)ncmail.net


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Horned Lark
From: Brian Small <BrianJSmall(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 14 Dec 2001 10:28am

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I wonder if anybody out there in the States can help.  I am trying to find
out on what basis the Eurasian form of Horned Lark flava is on the AOU
Checklist.

I only know that it is listed in Pyle as having been recorded (collected?) on
the Aleutian Islands, but if so, on what basis, how many records, which
island(s), etc?

If anyone can help, I would be most interested and grateful.

Brian Small - the English one!

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[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Nazca Booby
From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan(AT)CCSF.ORG>
Date: 15 Dec 2001 3:58pm

ID Frontiers,

I have posted an image of an immature Nazca Booby (Sula grantii) on
the California Bird Records Committee web site.  This individual rode
a vessel into the port of San Diego where it was taken into captivity
and photographed. Also gene sequencing has been performed from a
plucked feather.

You can view the image at:

http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/photos/index.html

I have also updated the mystery birds on my California birding site
with some controversial ducks.  See:

http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~jmorlan/mysteries.htm

Enjoy!

--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044: mailto:jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
California Birding, mystery birds: http://fog.ccsf.org/~jmorlan/
California Bird Records Committee: http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/