ID-FRONTIERS for December 16-22, 2001

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   RFI: an aberrant Redpoll-like bird in Fort Worth   Martin Reid    Sun, 16 Dec 2001   8:06pm   Re: RFI: an aberrant Redpoll-like bird in Fort Worth   Graham Etherington    Mon, 17 Dec 2001   8:58am   Re: RFI: an aberrant Redpoll-like bird in Fort Worth   David Sibley    Mon, 17 Dec 2001   10:26am   Comments needed; some gulls from Michigan, USA   hein prinsen    Mon, 17 Dec 2001   10:21am   Redpoll-like bird in Fort Worth.   Alvaro Jaramillo    Mon, 17 Dec 2001   9:01pm   [Fwd: [UKBN] German taxonomic decisions]   James H. Barton   Tue, 18 Dec 2001   7:14pm   Re: Redpoll-like bird in Fort Worth - update   Martin Reid    Fri, 21 Dec 2001   5:50am   "Mystery birds"--including the gull--in Trinidad   Floyd Hayes    Fri, 21 Dec 2001   9:03am   Piratic or Variegated Flycatcher?   Floyd Hayes    Fri, 21 Dec 2001   12:46pm   More gull pics from Michigan   hein prinsen    Fri, 21 Dec 2001   6:16pm

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Subject: RFI: an aberrant Redpoll-like bird in Fort Worth
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 16 Dec 2001 8:06pm

Dear All,
I really need some help with this albinistic/leucistic passerine that is
visiting my yard:
  http://www.martinreid.com/mystery1.html
I have considered Chipping Sparrow, Am. Tree Sparrow (only because of the
striking, unfamiliar song that it MAY be singing), and Common Redpoll, but
there are problems with all these possibilities; To summarize my dilemma on
this creature:-
If it's a Chipping Sparrow: how does this explain the smaller size and the
red - not rufous - crown patch, and is the bill shape correct? what about
the shadow of the Redpoll-like dusky lores/chin? would such a bird show the
pattern of black and white on the visible parts of the wing (excluding the
thickness of white greater covert wing-bar, which has been affected by the
mutation)?
If its a Common Redpoll: can they have shortish wings?; is the tail
length/shape valid?; what about the bill structure ( hard to assess when
the wrong color!)?; is the pattern/color of the 'poll" OK?; what about the
bird's behavior/association?
It would be great to get comments suggesting what it is AND WHY - thanks!
Martin

Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com


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Subject: Re: RFI: an aberrant Redpoll-like bird in Fort
         Worth
From: Graham Etherington <etherington(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 17 Dec 2001 8:58am

Dear Martin and all,
Before I start, please let me indulge in wishing you all a very Merry
Christmas. Right, on with the topic in hand.
Interesting bird!
I'm not going to hazard much of a guess to the id of your bird (OK, I think
it's possibly a Chipping Sparrow due to the colour of the crown and tail
length, but as you say, if the colours on the photos appear wrong, then I
don't know what to think).
Anyway, it definitely isn't a Redpoll. These are the reasons why:
1. The bill is too big. Redpolls have extremely pointed, conical bills,
usually straw-green in colour.
2. The 'poll' is to extensive on the side of the crown. Redpoll usually has
a rather 'diamond' or 'disk' shaped crown patch.
3. Some of the photos seem to show quite a strong moustachial stripe and
rear auricular stripe. Redpoll doesn't show these, but rather, is fairly
plain around the auriculars.
4. Tail length. I think this bird's tail is too long for a Redpoll. It's
hard to make out, but it looks more in keeping with a Spizella sparrow,
rather than a Carduelis.
5. Leg colour - Redpolls have black legs (although I agree that as this bird
has aberrant plumage, it may have aberrant 'soft parts'.
Hope I've been of some help!
Cheers,
Graham Etherington
Norwich, UK

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Subject: Re: RFI: an aberrant Redpoll-like bird in Fort
         Worth
From: David Sibley <dsibley(AT)SHORE.NET>
Date: 17 Dec 2001 10:26am

I agree with Graham Etherington that the mystery bird may be a Chipping
Sparrow. I think shape and size rule out Redpoll and American Tree Sparrow
(which should be considerably larger than Chipping Sparrows).

The brighter reddish crown of this bird could be explained by a lack of
black pigment, which on normal Chipping Sparrows could mix with the
reddish-brown to darken and dull that color. (Just a hypothesis, I don't
know if this is actually true of Chipping Sparrows, but they do have a
blending from black forehead to rufous crown, so that supports my
hypothesis).

Yellow bill is abnormal, and abnormal bare-part colors are rare. But I
recall photos of an abnormally-plumaged Eastern Bluebird in Connecticut
years ago that had a yellow bill. This again could simply be the expression
of a color that is always there but normally masked by the black pigment.

David Sibley
Concord, MA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Reid" <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 10:07 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] RFI: an aberrant Redpoll-like bird in Fort Worth

> Dear All,
> I really need some help with this albinistic/leucistic passerine that is
> visiting my yard:
>   http://www.martinreid.com/mystery1.html
> I have considered Chipping Sparrow, Am. Tree Sparrow (only because of the
> striking, unfamiliar song that it MAY be singing), and Common Redpoll, but
> there are problems with all these possibilities; To summarize my dilemma
on
> this creature:-
> If it's a Chipping Sparrow: how does this explain the smaller size and the
> red - not rufous - crown patch, and is the bill shape correct? what about
> the shadow of the Redpoll-like dusky lores/chin? would such a bird show
the
> pattern of black and white on the visible parts of the wing (excluding the
> thickness of white greater covert wing-bar, which has been affected by the
> mutation)?
> If its a Common Redpoll: can they have shortish wings?; is the tail
> length/shape valid?; what about the bill structure ( hard to assess when
> the wrong color!)?; is the pattern/color of the 'poll" OK?; what about the
> bird's behavior/association?
> It would be great to get comments suggesting what it is AND WHY - thanks!
> Martin
>
>
> Martin Reid
> Fort Worth, Texas
> upupa(AT)airmail.net
> http://www.martinreid.com
>
>


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Subject: Comments needed; some gulls from Michigan, USA
From: hein prinsen <hprinsen(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 17 Dec 2001 10:21am

Gullophiles,

   I have created a web page with some gull pics from our local landfill. I
would appreciate your comments concerning the ID of:
   a) two Kumlien's Gulls
   b) a possible 2nd winter Thayer's Gull
   c) a 'dark-backed' American Herring Gull

   www.umich.edu/~hprinsen/gulls.htm

   good gulling,

   Hein Prinsen
   Ann Arbor, Michigan
   hprinsen(AT)hotmail.com

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Subject: Redpoll-like bird in Fort Worth.
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)HOME.COM>
Date: 17 Dec 2001 9:01pm

At 12:01 AM 12/17/2001 -0700, you wrote:

>Dear All,
>I really need some help with this albinistic/leucistic passerine that is
>visiting my yard:
>   http://www.martinreid.com/mystery1.html
>I have considered Chipping Sparrow, Am. Tree Sparrow (only because of the
>striking, unfamiliar song that it MAY be singing), and Common Redpoll, but
>there are problems with all these possibilities; To summarize my dilemma on
>this creature:-
>If it's a Chipping Sparrow: how does this explain the smaller size and the
>red - not rufous - crown patch, and is the bill shape correct? what about
>the shadow of the Redpoll-like dusky lores/chin? would such a bird show the
>pattern of black and white on the visible parts of the wing (excluding the
>thickness of white greater covert wing-bar, which has been affected by the
>mutation)?

Martin,

    This is the best identification in my opinion. The bill is much too
long and large for a redpoll, and the eye looks too large. The red crown
is  due to the red pigment becoming more obvious due to the lack of melanin
in the crown. This type of situation occurs in leucistic Red-winged
Blackbirds as well, often the masked red on the throat of males becomes
apparent once the melanin is eliminated from the equation. I am using
leucistic to mean reduction in pigment (melanin) or absence in certain
parts of the individual (often referred to as partial albinism). There
appears to be some differences in how these terms are used, but my
understanding is that albinism is absolute, it cannot be partial. You are
either albino, or not. Any other lack of melanism is called leucism, and
this includes patchy white situations or washed out looking birds.
         If you get crisper photos, do put them up, my opinion could change
with more information.

>If its a Common Redpoll: can they have shortish wings?; is the tail
>length/shape valid?; what about the bill structure ( hard to assess when
>the wrong color!)?; is the pattern/color of the 'poll" OK?; what about the
>bird's behavior/association?

Both Redpolls have very long primary extensions, longer than Pine Siskins
and certainly longer than Chipping Sparrows. I would also find it extremely
odd for a redpoll to be hanging around with Chipping Sparrows. If a redpoll
was visiting your yard, I would certainly expect it with the American
Goldfinches.

my dos centavos.

cheers,

Alvaro

Alvaro Jaramillo
Montara,
California

chucao(AT)home.com

Field Guides Inc.
http://www.fieldguides.com/home.html

Helm guide to the New World Blackbirds, Birding in Chile, at:
http://members.home.net/chucao/


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Subject: [Fwd: [UKBN] German taxonomic decisions]
From: "James H. Barton" <redwing1986(AT)MEDIAONE.NET>
Date: 18 Dec 2001 7:14pm

       Friends, read on.  I'm sure some of you will have much of interest to
say.  And this time, no one can blame it all on the Dutch.

    Yours,

    Jim Barton
    redwing1986(AT)mediaone.net
    Cambridge, MA

Steve Preddy wrote:

> I thought UKBN subscribers who don't subscribe to Dutch Birding may like
> to know that in the current issue (Vol 23 No 6)  it is reported that the
> German taxonomic committee has made a number of taxonomic decisions
> (listed below). Quite an extensive list - although a lot of them are
> quite old hat & have widespread agreement, there are quite a number of
> more innovatory decisions too. The significance of this is that the
> Germans, unlike the Dutch, use a Biological Species Concept rather than
> the Phylogenetic Species Concept. The 'flavour' of the BSC used by the
> Germans (one which treats allospecies and biospecies equally as full
> species) is rumoured to be more or less the same one as that being
> trialed by the BOU's taxonomic subcommittee, so look out for a bumper
> crop of splits from the BOU in the near future, if that's true! (The
> latest news I have on this was that the BOU species concept definition
> is being refined following its use in relation to the Mealy
> Redpoll/Green-winged Teal decisions and will be trialed on a few more
> groups before they go public with it. Martin Collinson can correct me if
> that's not quite right).
>
> Steve
>
> Details:
> a) Species-level taxonomy
>     Whistling & Bewick's Swans split
>     small forms of Canada Goose split from large forms
>     Common & Green-winged Teals split
>     Common & Black Scoters split
>     Velvet & White-winged Scoters split
>     Pacific & Black-throated Divers split
>     Fea's Petrel & Zino's Petrel both split from Soft-plumaged
>     Cape Verde Shearwater split from Cory's
>     Manx, Balearic & Yelkouan Shearwaters split
>     Striated Heron split from Green Heron
>     Greater & Caribbean Flamingos split
>     European & Crested Honey Buzzard's split
>     Spanish Imperial Eagle split from Imperial Eagle
>     Steppe & Tawny Eagles split
>     Amur & Red-footed Falcons split
>     MacQueen's & Houbara Bustards split
>     Wilson's and Common Snipe split
>     Armenian, Yellow-legged & Heuglin's Gull split from Herring Gull (no
> mention of Caspian)
>     Pharaoh Eagle Owl (ascalaphus) split from Eagle Owl
>     Desert Little Owl (lilith) split from Little Owl
>     Sharpe's Woodpecker split from Green Woodpecker
>     Asian Short-toed Lark split from Lesser Short-toed Lark
>     Siberian Stonechat split from Common Stonechat
>     Western & Eastern Black-eared Wheatears split
>     Cyprus & Pied Wheatears split
>     Seebohm's Wheatear split from Northern Wheatear
>     Eastern & Western Red-tailed Wheatears split
>     North African Mourning Wheatear (halophila) split from Mourning
> Wheatear
>     Great, Basra & Oriental Reed Warblers each treated as separate
> species
>     Western Olivaceous Warbler (opaca) split from Olivaceous Warbler
>     Booted & Sykes' Warblers split
>     African & Asian Desert Warblers split
>     Eastern & Western Orphean Warblers split
>     Hume's & Desert Lesser Whitethroat both split from Lesser
> Whitethroat
>     A five way split in the chiffchaffs (Siberian regarded as separate
> from Common)
>     Green & Two-barred Greenish Warblers each split from Greenish
>     Hume's split from Yellow-browed Warblers
>     Western & Eastern Bonelli's Warblers split
>     Canary Islands Kinglet and Madeira Kinglet each regarded as separate
> species
>     Taiga Flycatcher split from Red-breasted
>     Great & Southern Grey Shrikes split
>     Hooded & Carrion Crows split
>     Lesser Redpoll split from Redpoll
>     Saharan & nominate House Buntings split
>
> b) Higher-level taxonomy
>     The Germans regard Anseriformes & Galliformes as sister taxa having
> a basal position within the avian phylogenetic tree, and so place them
> together at the start of their list. This decision has nothing to do
> with species concepts of course - but the significance is that the
> Dutch, the Sibley & Monroe list and the Oriental Bird Club list all
> accept this view - I can't believe that such a sweeping change would get
> such widespread support unless the evidence for it was pretty
> convincing, so I guess it's only a matter of time before Britain catches
> up.
>
> +-----------------------------------------------+
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Subject: Re: Redpoll-like bird in Fort Worth - update
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 21 Dec 2001 5:50am

Dear all,
I want to thank Graham Etherington, David Sibley, Alvaro Jaramillo, and the
few who commented privately to me about this bird. Almost all of you felt
it was NOT a Redpoll, and was likely a Chipping Sparrow.
Recently I was able to see and photograph this bird again; the wings and
tail clearly show it to be a sparrow:
http://www.martinreid.com/mystery1.html
For me personally, I should have stayed with my initial gut feel on this
bird.  I can imagine getting a description of it from an inexperienced
birder or back-yard bird feeder, accompanied by fuzzy photos that do not
show the tell-tale sparrow-like features...and getting hoodwinked into
thinking it was a Redpoll.  Prior to seeing this bird, I would have thought
it fanciful had someone suggested that the only other bird that looks like
a Hoary Redpoll might be an aberrant Chipping Sparrow with white in just
the right places, traces of a face mask, a tail that could look strongly
forked, plus a red "poll" that was truly red only because the black
pigments were missing (i.e. Chipping Sparrows actually have truly red
crowns, but the black elements mixed-in make it look rufous)...you get my
drift.
A most interesting bird that taught me quite a lot; I hope some of you also
found it worthwhile.
BTW if some of you want to see what an albino Redpoll might look like,
check this out:
http://w1.157.telia.com/~u15702215/burfaglar.htm - and note the hunky bills
on the rostrata redpolls also shown here!
Happy Hols,
Martin

Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com


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Subject: "Mystery birds"--including the gull--in Trinidad
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 21 Dec 2001 9:03am

The Trinidad and Tobago Rare Bird Committee
(http://www.wow.net/ttrbc/ttrbcHome.html) is seeking expert advice on
several "mystery birds" in Trinidad, including:

1) suspected immature White-tailed Hawk

     http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttmysteryhawk

2) suspected subadult Rufous Crab-Hawk (poor quality photo, identity queried
by a TTRBC member, but directly comparable with photos of two definite
adults)

     http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttrufouscrab-hawk

3) suspected 1st-summer Lesser Black-backed Gull (identity queried by Lyn
Atherton of Florida)

     http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds
     http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttkelpgull

4) suspected Variegated Flycatcher, but possibly an immature Piratic
Flycatcher?

     http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttmysteryflycatcher

Any thoughts on these mystery birds would be appreciated. Responses should
be sent to Martyn Kenefick <martynkenefick(AT)netscape.net>, current TTRBC
Secretary (I'd be happy to receive 'em as well).

MYSTERY GULL RESPONSES:

I received three responses on the Trinidad "mystery gull"
(http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttmysterygull), which has yet to be
relocated (and perhaps never will) despite at least 10 attempts by local
birders.

A respondent from Colorado thought the tertials were too well developed for
a 1st-winter bird and suggested it was a 2nd-winter Lesser Black-backed
Gull. Perhaps so, but it had an all-black bill and a finely
mottled/speckled/whatever back and wings (unfortunately this pattern doesn't
appear in the distant photos); can these features be retained into the 2nd
winter? Furthermore, it was quite unlike a rather heavy-billed, 2nd-winter
LBBG photographed at the same time
(http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttlesserblack-backedgull1).

A respondent from Ireland suggested I consider "Caspian" Gull. Indeed I
considered this a few days after finding the gull (unfortunately I knew
nothing about this potential species when I found it) and concluded that
several features, including the shape of the head and bill and underwing
coloration, were tantalizingly consistent. But...on this side of the
Atlantic?

A respondent from the United Kingdom concurred that several features were
consistent with Caspian Gull, but the broadly white-tipped tertials were
more consistent with a 2nd-winter gull, in which case underwing coloration
would be useless for identification, and the distinctive "face" of Caspian
Gull was lacking.

In conclusion, we need a lot of luck in relocating it and obtaining better
photos before its identity can be properly assessed.

Floyd E. Hayes
Lecturer in Zoology
*********************************************
Department of Life Sciences
University of the West Indies
St. Augustine
Trinidad and Tobago
Tel: 868-645-3233 x2206
Fax: 868-663-5241
Website: http://www.geocities.com/floyd_hayes
*********************************************

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Subject: Piratic or Variegated Flycatcher?
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 21 Dec 2001 12:46pm

Richard Webster, who supplied the Trinidad "Mystery Flycatcher" photos,
pointed out that a "Piratic Flycatcher" photographed in Texas and
illustrated in North American Birds 55(2):248, 2001, looks very similar to
the Trinidad bird(s). Is the Texas bird correctly identified?

Floyd Hayes

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Subject: More gull pics from Michigan
From: hein prinsen <hprinsen(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 21 Dec 2001 6:16pm

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