ID-FRONTIERS for February 24-28, 2002

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   My web site is back, with a new Hoodwink   Martin Reid    Sun, 24 Feb 2002   7:17am   Re: FW: [EBN] ID INFO, birds in captivity   Allen Chartier    Sun, 24 Feb 2002   11:04am   Peregrine in Iceland   Norman D.van Swelm   Mon, 25 Feb 2002   4:45am   Fwd: Re: [Laridae] A pale herring gull !?   Menotti Passarella    Mon, 25 Feb 2002   2:54pm   Re: Fwd: Re: [Laridae] A pale herring gull !?   Bruce Mactavish    Mon, 25 Feb 2002   3:44pm   Re: FW: [EBN] ID INFO, birds in captivity   (Mary Beth Stowe)   Mon, 25 Feb 2002   5:25pm   FW: Selasphorus photo ID Question   Alain Foss=?ISO-8859   Tue, 26 Feb 2002   12:22am   Re: Rufous/Allen's Hummingbird   Bob & Carol Yutzy    Tue, 26 Feb 2002   2:01pm   possible Slaty-backed Gull in upstate NY   Robert H. Lewis   Wed, 27 Feb 2002   9:00am   Oriental Birding Forum Part 3   Tom Tarrant    Wed, 27 Feb 2002   6:07pm   Hybrid Aythya diving-duck   Angus Wilson    Thu, 28 Feb 2002   6:43pm

To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'. This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.

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Subject: My web site is back, with a new Hoodwink
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 24 Feb 2002 7:17am

Dear all,
Thanks to all who emailed to tell me that my site has been down.  It all
had to be moved to a new physical address, and at last, my Domain name now
points to that new address.
I've added a new discussion bird: an Aythya from Texas that shows a number
of Pochard-like features:
http://www.martinreid.com/aythya2.html
I have previously discussed this bird with some highly experienced birders
in the UK, and will share their conclusions in due course, but for starters
I'll let you assess this bird without the influence of others.
I'll point out that the three (plus?) California records of Pochard have
all been inland, and associating with Redheads (please correct me if I'm
wrong), and c. 50-70% of the World Population of Redheads winter at Laguna
Atascosa NWR in coastal south Texas - including a proportion of the birds
that breed west of the Continental Divide (Ducks, Geese and Swans of
N.A.,  Bellrose).
Cheers,
Martin

Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com


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Subject: Re: FW: [EBN] ID INFO, birds in captivity
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia1(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 24 Feb 2002 11:04am

Menotti,

Both of these birds are Asian, not South American.  Bird A is a Collared
Finchbill (Spizixos semitorques), an abberant bulbul species from southern
China and Taiwan.  Bird B took me a while longer to figure out.  It is
definitely a Laughtingthrush (Garrulax sp.) and appears to be Red-tailed
Laughingthrush (G. milnei).  Most guides illustrate the species with a
brighter reddish-rufous cap, but the description of a very range-restricted
subspecies (G. m. vitryi) from S. Laos seems to fit nicely as it is
described as having a "darker and more chestnut crown and nape."  I would
certainly question the legality of these two species being in captivity,
unless they're in a zoo.

Allen Chartier
amazilia1(AT)comcast.net
1442 West River Park Drive
Inkster, MI  48141
Website: http://www.amazilia.net
Michigan HummerNet: http://www.amazilia.net/MIHummerNet/index.htm


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Subject: Peregrine in Iceland
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 25 Feb 2002 4:45am

For those of you interested in Peregrine plumages see Yann's website. It
shows a juvenile/1st winter bird. Can anyone tell if this bird belongs to
the Greenland/American race?
Norman

>You can now see the latest Icelandic bird news on my new website,
>http://www.hi.is/~yannk/index-eng.html
>
>I will hopefully manage to update this site nearly daily, and put many more
>photos in, in the next days.
>Yann Kolbeinsson
>Reykjavík, Iceland


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Subject: Fwd: Re: [Laridae] A pale herring gull !?
From: Menotti Passarella <aster_men(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 25 Feb 2002 2:54pm

CASPIAN GULL AT SAINT PIERRE - NE AMERICA ?

Hi all gull people.

According to me the mystery gull:

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/iles-et-ailes/pale_argent.htm

is neither a pale Herring Gull (Larus argentatus) nor
an hybrid with Glaucous Gull (Larus hyperboreus).

It appears like a very abraded firts winter Caspian
Gull - Larus cachinnans (note that both mantle and
tail are first winter type).

Caspian Gulls first winter may show a bi-colored bill.
Again, this bird shows traces of the ancor-shaped
mantle feathers, that are typically pale-grey, angular
neck and belly, whitish head, very dark eye, traces of
the typical streaks in the hindneck, long wings.

You may compare it with these Caspian Gulls (all first
winter):

First winterr Caspian Gull; scapulars with extensive
markings:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~calidris/caspianHL.htm

Note this abraded first winter Caspian Gull, but the
head is not so
white (so the white on the head of the french gull is
an “effect” of
the species instead of the fading/abrasion):

http://www.xs4all.nl/~calidris/Bleekpont.htm

First winter Caspian Gull:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~calidris/caspianjan.htm

Look at the bi-colored bill of these birds:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~calidris/caspianmrt.htm

Regards

Menotti Passarella
Italy
email: menotti.passarella(AT)libero.it

---Original message:
> Looks like a very worn and bleached but otherwise
normal second calend
ar
> year Herring (i.e. most probably smithsonianus in
this case). European

> Herring Gulls at that time of year can look very
pale (almost all dirt
y
> white)
> with all dark markings strongly faded. However, this
applies to a smal
l
> minority of birds, so they always stand out among
conspecifics. I gues
s the
>
> same will be true for the odd smithsonianus.
>
> kind regards,
> Rik Winters
>
> ----------
> > Van: Pascal ASSELIN <pascal.asselin(AT)wanadoo.fr>
> > Aan: Laridae(AT)yahoogroupes.fr
> > Onderwerp: [Laridae] A pale herring gull !?
> > Datum: zaterdag, februari 23, 2002 10:53
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Please take a look to this page :
> >
> >
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/iles-et-ailes/pale_argent.htm
> >
> > You could help me to determine the conmformity or
not of this (herri
ng)
> > gull's plumage.
> >
> >
> > Si le coeur vous en dit, vous pouvez continuer la
visite du site où
j'ai
> > placé aussi des photos récentes de deux goélands
rares pour l'archip
el
> > de St-Pierre et Miquelon.
> >
> > http://perso.wanadoo.fr/iles-et-ailes/

__________________________________________________
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http://sports.yahoo.com


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Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Laridae] A pale herring gull !?
From: Bruce Mactavish <bruce.mactavish1(AT)NF.SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 25 Feb 2002 3:44pm

The St. Pierre et Miquelon gull from May 31, 2001 looks like a fairly
typical one year old hybrid Glaucous Gull x Herring Gull.  While one and
two year old Herring Gulls can have sharply demarcated two tone bills
they never really look THIS Glaucous Gull-like. The vibrant pink base
and inky black tip is Glaucous Gull all the way. The lack of pale tip on
the bill and apparent dark iris are good indications that it is a one
year old bird.  By late May one year old Glaucous and Iceland Gulls
become bleached white like the head and body of this bird. The pale
brown markings on the whitish background displayed on the scapulars and
wing coverts is paler than the washed out brown background expected on
one or two year old Herring Gulls. The extensive area of dark in the
tail is suggestive of smithsonianus pattern.

This bird is as good as it gets for a hybrid Glaucous Gull x Herring
Gull on this side of the Atlantic. This hybrid combination is regularly
seen in neighbouring eastern Newfoundland.

Bruce Mactavish
St. John's, Newfoundland
Canada
bruce.mactavish1(AT)nf.sympatico.ca


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Subject: Re: FW: [EBN] ID INFO, birds in captivity
From: "(Mary Beth Stowe)" <MiriamEagl(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 25 Feb 2002 5:25pm

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

In a message dated 02/24/02 10:14:45 AM Pacific Standard Time,
amazilia1(AT)COMCAST.NET writes:

> I would
> certainly question the legality of these two species being in captivity,
> unless they're in a zoo.
>
>

We've had both at the San Diego Zoo.

Mary Beth Stowe
San Diego, CA
MiriamEagl(AT)aol.com

----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----


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Subject: FW: Selasphorus photo ID Question
From: Alain Foss=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Angers France <alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: 26 Feb 2002 12:22am

> De : "Ross Hawkins" <hummerman(AT)hummingbird.org>
> Société : The Hummingbird Society
> Répondre à : "Ross Hawkins" <hummerman(AT)hummingbird.org>
> Date : Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:07:35 -0500
> À : Alain Fossé Angers France <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>
> Objet : Re: [BIRDWG01] Selasphorus photo ID Question
>
> Hi Alain,
>
> I agree with the analysis:  Selasphorus spp but I'd wager it's a Rufous.
>
> Ross
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alain Fossé Angers France" <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>
> To: "Ross HAWKINS" <hummerman(AT)hummingbird.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 1:50 PM
> Subject: FW: [BIRDWG01] Selasphorus photo ID Question
>
>
>>> De : Mike Patterson <celata(AT)pacifier.com>
>>> Société : http://home.pacifier.com/~mpatters/
>>> Répondre à : celata(AT)pacifier.com
>>> Date : Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:19:27 -0800
>>> À : BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
>>> Objet : Re: [BIRDWG01] Selasphorus photo ID Question
>>>
>>> I downloaded your photo and brightened it.  It does appear to
>>> be a Selasphorus Hummingbirds, probably a first winter male.
>>> The tail is very short looking in the photograph which suggests
>>> it may be still growing in (it's really too short looking for
>>> any Selasphorus).
>>>
>>> A shorter tail would favor Allen's, but is way too hard to
>>> judge except in hand.  Without clearer images of the tail,
>>> I'm afraid you're stuck at Selasphorus sp.
>>>
>>> Don Gorney wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If you're still with me I have a question about a Selasphorus photo.
>>>> Can the bird in the picture at the link below even begin to be called a
>>>> Rufous Hummingbird based solely on the picture?  I assume that the
>>>> photo ID has to be relegated to the Selasphorus category.  Although I
>>>> believe the bird to be an immature male Rufous based on visual
>>>> observations, the picture just didn't capture enough details.  The
>>>> photo can be viewed at <http://www.dongorney.com/hummer.htm>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any response.
>>>>
>>>> =====
>>>> Don Gorney
>>>> Indianapolis, IN
>>>> dongorney(AT)yahoo.com
>>>> www.dongorney.com
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>>> Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail
>>>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mike Patterson
>>> Astoria, OR
>>> celata(AT)pacifier.com
>>>
>>> http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html
>>
>>
>>
>


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Subject: Re: Rufous/Allen's Hummingbird
From: Bob & Carol Yutzy <boby(AT)C-ZONE.NET>
Date: 26 Feb 2002 2:01pm

I also believe it is a immature Rufous male with a growing tail (or possibly
with a cat-assisted tail feather removal.)

It is certainly not a Calliope (even though they have quite a short-tailed
appearance), nor is it a Broad-tailed Hummer in my opinion.

It should be called a Rufous/Allen's Hummingbird in my opinion.

Bob Yutzy

Alain Fossé Angers France wrote:

> > De : "Ross Hawkins" <hummerman(AT)hummingbird.org>
> > Société : The Hummingbird Society
> > Répondre à : "Ross Hawkins" <hummerman(AT)hummingbird.org>
> > Date : Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:07:35 -0500
> > À : Alain Fossé Angers France <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>
> > Objet : Re: [BIRDWG01] Selasphorus photo ID Question
> >
> > Hi Alain,
> >
> > I agree with the analysis:  Selasphorus spp but I'd wager it's a Rufous.
> >
> > Ross
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Alain Fossé Angers France" <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>
> > To: "Ross HAWKINS" <hummerman(AT)hummingbird.org>
> > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 1:50 PM
> > Subject: FW: [BIRDWG01] Selasphorus photo ID Question
> >
> >
> >>> De : Mike Patterson <celata(AT)pacifier.com>
> >>> Société : http://home.pacifier.com/~mpatters/
> >>> Répondre à : celata(AT)pacifier.com
> >>> Date : Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:19:27 -0800
> >>> À : BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
> >>> Objet : Re: [BIRDWG01] Selasphorus photo ID Question
> >>>
> >>> I downloaded your photo and brightened it.  It does appear to
> >>> be a Selasphorus Hummingbirds, probably a first winter male.
> >>> The tail is very short looking in the photograph which suggests
> >>> it may be still growing in (it's really too short looking for
> >>> any Selasphorus).
> >>>
> >>> A shorter tail would favor Allen's, but is way too hard to
> >>> judge except in hand.  Without clearer images of the tail,
> >>> I'm afraid you're stuck at Selasphorus sp.
> >>>
> >>> Don Gorney wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> If you're still with me I have a question about a Selasphorus photo.
> >>>> Can the bird in the picture at the link below even begin to be called a
> >>>> Rufous Hummingbird based solely on the picture?  I assume that the
> >>>> photo ID has to be relegated to the Selasphorus category.  Although I
> >>>> believe the bird to be an immature male Rufous based on visual
> >>>> observations, the picture just didn't capture enough details.  The
> >>>> photo can be viewed at <http://www.dongorney.com/hummer.htm>
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for any response.
> >>>>
> >>>> =====
> >>>> Don Gorney
> >>>> Indianapolis, IN
> >>>> dongorney(AT)yahoo.com
> >>>> www.dongorney.com
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> Do You Yahoo!?
> >>>> Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail
> >>>> http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Mike Patterson
> >>> Astoria, OR
> >>> celata(AT)pacifier.com
> >>>
> >>> http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >


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Subject: possible Slaty-backed Gull in upstate NY
From: "Robert H. Lewis" <lewis(AT)BWAY.NET>
Date: 27 Feb 2002 9:00am

Dear all,

  On February 23 an adult "Herring type" gull thought to be a Slaty-backed
was seen and photographed at a landfill in upstate New York, near Seneca
Falls,  which is near the northern end of Cayuga Lake.  The observers were
Kevin McGowan, Jay McGowan, and Steve Kelling (sorry if I've missed anyone).
Kevin McGowan asked me to post this information here and solicit opinions.

  The photos they took are at  http://birds.cornell.edu/dic/slbgul/index.htm

  Strangely, another adult bird was seen several days earlier around 150
miles to the southeast, near Liberty, New York.  That bird had been making
irregular appearances in that area for several weeks and was finally seen by
Paul Buckley, who (as I understand the story) identified it as a
Slaty-backed.  I am getting this info from the NYS listserve; I have not
seen either bird myself, nor have I spoken to Paul.  Some have speculated
that the same bird later showed up in Seneca Falls.  The Liberty bird has
not been seen since February 20.  A few photos of it are at

 http://community.webtv.net/vanhaas/JohnHaasbirdingpage

  I have already posted some comments on the Seneca Falls bird to the NYS
listserve.  However, let me not post them here yet.  Let's let others have
their say!  We are all very interested in hearing from those with lots of
field experience with Slaty-backed.

  At my web site below are some photos of Slaty-backeds from Ontario, Japan,
and Siberia, as well as some wanna-bees.

Bob Lewis
Sleepy Hollow NY
http://www.bway.net/~lewis/birds/gulls.html

_____________________________________________________

  Here is the description (Seneca Falls bird) given by Kevin McGowan:

Large Gull, as big or slightly larger than the male Herrings; substantially
smaller than Great Black-backed Gull.

Dark mantle; about the same shade as the Lesser Black-backed Gulls present;
lighter than Great Black-backed.

Dirty streaking on head and neck; less marked than the two Lessers
there.  Dark smudging around the light eye, in a flat triangular
shape.  The streaked head and mantle color made it confusable with Lesser
Black-backs, not Great.

Sturdy, but not too large a yellow bill with large red spot on lower
mandible.  Moderate angle at gonys.  Not a huge bill like a Great
Black-backed or a Western, but larger than Lesser Black-backed.  Thick and
long, so doesn't look hugely different from a Herring Gull bill, but in the
photos it is obviously larger: thicker and longer.

Head profile very flat.

Legs bright deep pink.  They were nearly purple-pink and quite
distinctively different from any other gull there.  The legs of Great
Black-backed were the color of dead flesh, while these were vibrant bubble
gum.  They were very apparently red to me, despite my deficiency in red
cones.  Leg color of gulls is not a character I notice without thinking
about it, but these were like no color I have ever seen.

The wings on the perched bird had large white tips to the outer primaries,
with the 5th or 6th white with a transverse black line.  The white on the
secondaries and tertials was very broad, broader than the Great Black-backs
near it, and much broader than the Lessers.  A very large tertial crescent.

The bird was very inactive, the least of all the gulls present.  They were
all preening and stretching, but this bird refused to do anything for long
periods of times.  Eventually it flew, and I managed to get some
video.  The "string of pearls" pale gray/white subterminal spots were
apparent from both above and below.  It appears that p10 has a completely
white tip, p9 has a very large white subterminal spot proximal to the
subterminal black line that blends into the white tip of p10.  P8 shows a
light gray mark on the inner vane only.  The obvious subterminal spot is
nearly white on p7 and p6, and p5 looks like it has only a thin black line
dividing the white tip.


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Subject: Oriental Birding Forum Part 3
From: Tom Tarrant <aviceda(AT)SUNSHINE.NET.AU>
Date: 27 Feb 2002 6:07pm

Hi All,
I've just put together part 3 of the Oriental Birding ID Forum
(http://ats.com.au/~aviceda/orientalID3.htm) it features 3 immature
'chats' filmed in Hokkaido, Japan and originally submitted to the
Kantori , Japanese birding mailing-list
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kantori/) and a raptor photographed on
Christmas Island in the Indian Ocean first submitted to the
Asian-Raptors mailing-list,
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Asian-raptors/)....a possible first for
Australian Territory?
Please send comments!
Tom

--
Tom and Marie Tarrant
Lot 10 (137) Watson Rd
Samsonvale, Queensland 4521
Australia

Birding Southern Queensland
http://ats.com.au/~aviceda/


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Subject: Hybrid Aythya diving-duck
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 28 Feb 2002 6:43pm

Last weekend I photographed an interesting hybrid duck on Massapequa
Lake on the south shore of Long Island New York. Reminiscent of a Tufted
Duck, most or all observers now agree this is a hybrid of some kind,
most likely a Tufted Duck x scaup combo. Exactly which naughty scaup is
involved presents more of a challenge.

The pictures can be found on this page

http://www.oceanwanderers.com/Aythyahybrid.html

I'd appreciate any informed comments or additional information.  If
possible post to the main list so that everyone can enjoy the discussion
if there is one!

Cheers,

Angus Wilson
New York City
angus.wilson(AT)med.nyu.edu

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