ID-FRONTIERS for March 10-16, 2002

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Promised translation (quiz 22)   Michel Bertrand    Sun, 10 Mar 2002   10:50am   Alvaro Jaramillo e-mail   ian paulsen    Sun, 10 Mar 2002   11:20am      Paul Larkin    Sun, 10 Mar 2002   11:51am   FOUND Jaramillo!   ian paulsen    Sun, 10 Mar 2002   12:24pm   Hybrids Green-winged x Eurasian teals (A.carolinensis x crecca)   =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ricar   Sun, 10 Mar 2002   5:04pm   Re: Hybrids Green-winged x Eurasian teals (A.carolinensis x crecca)   ian paulsen    Sun, 10 Mar 2002   5:54pm   Re: Hybrids Green-winged x Eurasian teals (A.carolinensis x crecca)   Steven Mlodinow    Sun, 10 Mar 2002   6:26pm   Larus canus from DE (long)   Matt Sharp    Mon, 11 Mar 2002   8:15am   Snipe photos   Colin Bradshaw    Wed, 13 Mar 2002   12:09am   possible Slaty-backed Gull in upstate NY[2]   Robert H. Lewis   Wed, 13 Mar 2002   8:37am   Kumlien's Gull   John Idzikowski    Thu, 14 Mar 2002   8:59pm

To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'. This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.

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Subject: Promised translation (quiz 22)
From: Michel Bertrand <bertrmi(AT)COLBA.NET>
Date: 10 Mar 2002 10:50am

Hi,

For those who could have a problem in understanding the text at
http://www.quebecoiseaux.qc.ca/HTML/Defi.html
here is the translation I promised in my former message. I hope you will try
to identify the quiz bird and I will like very much to receive me your
answer. Please don't include my message when replying.

QUIZ 22

Another brown bird, do you think, when the small animal comes to perch
itself close to the country lane where you take a walk. But you have your
binoculars and, since the bird remains well in sight, you take time to
examine it. Which is this bird? Why?

Send your answer before April 5 to Michel  Bertrand, 900 rue des Paysans,
Sainte-Julie, Qc, Canada (J3E 1K7) or, by e-mail, to bertrmi(AT)colba.net . Do
not forget to include your name and your postal address in order to be
qualified for the draws. Three one year subscriptions to the magazine
QuébecOiseaux (or a prolongation of your current subscription) which will be
drawn among the people who will have identified the bird correctly. And
more: the Editor Michel Quintin offers a copy of the guide "Oiseaux du
Québec et des Maritimes" which will be also drawn among the people who will
answer correctly.

-----------------------

Answer to quiz 21

The former quiz bird was a Red-throated Loon, also named Red-throated Diver,
in winter plumage (Gavia stellata , Plongeon catmarin). See the current
issue of QuébecOiseaux for detailed text on its identification.

     MICHEL BERTRAND
     Sainte-Julie, Qc
     bertrmi(AT)colba.net

N'oubliez pas d'identifier l'oiseau mystère :
Don't forget to identify the mystery bird at :
http://www.quebecoiseaux.qc.ca/HTML/Defi.html


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Subject: Alvaro Jaramillo e-mail
From: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 10 Mar 2002 11:20am

HI ALL:
 Does anyone have a current e-mail address for Alvaro Jaramillo? His
home.com address bounced back to me!

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"


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Subject: 
From: Paul Larkin <paullarkin(AT)PGEN.NET>
Date: 10 Mar 2002 11:51am

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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What ho!

I note the further interest in hybrid ducks. For those interested Eric & =
Barry Gillham have published another addition to their inventory of =
hybrid ducks. It is a softback book containing 88 pages including 24 of =
full colour photographs, containing 95 plates, of these 80 depict live =
hybrid from the authors' collection.This second illustrated book is =
supplementary to HYBRID DUCK (1996) and contains much new information.

It can be obtained direct from B.L. Gillham, 90 Church Road, West Row, =
Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk IP28 8PF, UK

or www.amazon.co.uk, www.nhbs.com , www.wildlifebooks.com=20

Paul=20

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Subject: FOUND Jaramillo!
From: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 10 Mar 2002 12:24pm

HI ALL:
 I found Alvaro Jaramillo! Thanks for the help!

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"


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Subject: Hybrids Green-winged x Eurasian teals
         (A.carolinensis x crecca)
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ricard_Guti=E9rrez?= <GUTARB(AT)TERRA.ES>
Date: 10 Mar 2002 5:04pm

Hello
With the upgrade of these two morphs to species, now hybridization between
them has to be considered as interespecific. There are a few cases reported
in the bibliography (Vinicombe 1994 in British Birds who also quotes Palmer
197 for North America). In Spain, we've got two recent cases, one of which
deals with a male in a group which also included a pure male carolinensis,
the 1st for NE Spain. You can see photos of all and a summary of the
observation at http://www.rarebirdspain.net . My question is: are these
intermediate birds as 'common' as it may be thought or on the other hand are
true rarities?? (both in America and Europe). For what I know they are true
rarities, at least in S Europe.
Thank you

Ricard Gutiérrez
CR/SEO
Spain
11.3.2002


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Subject: Re: Hybrids Green-winged x Eurasian teals
         (A.carolinensis x crecca)
From: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 10 Mar 2002 5:54pm

HI Ricard:
 The AOU hasn't split the two into full species yet and apparently there
are alot of hybrid/intergrades being reported in the aleutians islands of
Alaska, so I don't see them being split anytime soon over here in North
America.

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"


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Subject: Re: Hybrids Green-winged x Eurasian teals
         (A.carolinensis x crecca)
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 10 Mar 2002 6:26pm

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Greetings All

The actual number of Common Teal in WA/OR seems to be increasing, most likely
due in great part to increased observer awareness. The number of hybrids
reported has also increased, though some of this has been due to
overenthusiastic observers looking at moulting Am Green-winged Teal.

Anyway, we get 5-15 Common Teal per year in WA/OR, tending towards the higher
number recently. Four were within a mile or so of the Falcated Duck that's
been out here. There were also two hybrid Com X Am GW Teal in the area.

Overall, I think the ration of Common Teal to hybrids is about 3:1 in the Pac
NW.
And my estimate for Eur Wigeon to hybrid wigeon is about 20:1.

Cheers
Steven Mlodinow
Everett WA
SGMlod(AT)aol.com

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Subject: Larus canus from DE (long)
From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
Date: 11 Mar 2002 8:15am

Thanks to everyone who responded to the posting regarding
the Larus canus from Delaware.  The majority of opinions
were that the bird is most likely of the nominate race Larus
canus canus, and is almost certainly not an American Mew
(or Short-billed) Gull Larus canus brachyrhynchus. A breakdown
of the 20 responses follows.

5 people mentioned that the pattern and extent of the head
streaking was wrong for Mew.  Mew should show coarser, smudgier streaking,
especially on the neck which can extend onto the
breast.  The head streaking on the Delaware bird is finer and
more restricted, though several people noted that the bird may
have begun to molt contour feathers such that the extent of the
head streaking is of little value as an id feature.

Overall shape and structure was something many people focused
on. 9 people said it looked fine for Common and 4 thought it was
perhaps too big and bulky for that taxon.  Head structure was
specifically mentioned by 2 people who thought it was fine for
Common.  Bill size and structure was mentioned by 5 people who
thought it was also fine for Common and 2 people said the same
regarding the bill pattern.  2 people mentioned leg-length; one saying
it was perhaps too long-legged for Common, the other saying it was
fine.

Mantle color was the one aspect that more people thought wrong
for Common (8) than thought was fine (5).  Of those that mentioned
it all thought it was too dark.

Finally wing-pattern was mentioned by 4 people as appearing good
for Common although several noted that without a clear photo or
even description of the wing that feature was of limited use.  One respondent
suggested that the apparent presence of white areas
proximal to the black sub-terminal bar on the middle primaries was suggestive of
 one of the eastern races, though much less extensive
than found on Mew Gull.

3 people noted that the pale eye was a mark against Common as
that taxon is the least likely to show that feature.

One of the reasons I posted this to the list was to explore the
possibility that this bird was of one of the eastern races (heinei,
or kamtschatschensis).  As I noted several people shared the
impression that this bird was bulkier and darker on the mantle than
expected for nominate canus.  However people with field experience
with canus from the UK and Europe basically saw no reason to
suspect it was anything other than nominate canus.  This is perhaps
enough to settle the question even in the absence of a clear
description of the wing-tip.

While I have not had time to search the literature yet it seems there
is a cline from east to west in regards to size and mantle color with
birds in the west (Iceland and UK) being the palest and smallest.
Since these are the ones that show up most regularly in the Atlantic Provinces
of Canada the impression of Common Gull as petite and
only slightly darker mantled than Ring-billed Gull is reasonable, though
not accurate when applied to birds from mainland Europe or even
the UK.  An interesting web-site qualifying the variation among
Common Gulls in the UK is at http://www.colwick2000.freeserve.co.uk
So while the Delaware bird may be on the big and dark side
for nominate canus from Iceland it is well within the range of variation
found amongst birds from the UK.  That being the case there little
reason to suspect the more extreme possibility that this bird came
from Eastern Europe or Siberia (or is of hybrid origin).  However with
the confirmed presence of one species, Black-tailed Gull, from the
range of Kamchatka Gull and the repeated appearance of presumed
Slaty-backed Gulls in Eastern US the notion of Kam. Gull may not be
as ludicrous as it sounds at first.  Although separating a suspected
Kam. Gull from a Russian Common Gull may prove extremely difficult
unless it is a really big individual.

Again thanks to everyone who took the time to reply to this.

Matt Sharp
Collection Manager
VIREO/ANS
1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
Philadelphia PA  19103
www.acnatsci.org/vireo
(tel.) 215-299-1069
(fax) 215-299-1182


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Subject: Snipe photos
From: Colin Bradshaw <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com>
Date: 13 Mar 2002 12:09am

The British Birds Rarities Committee need access to photographs of the
American race of Common Snipe in  fall plumage.

If anyone has such photos either in the field or in the hand could they
please contact

Colin Bradshaw on

drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com


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Subject: possible Slaty-backed Gull in upstate NY[2]
From: "Robert H. Lewis" <lewis(AT)BWAY.NET>
Date: 13 Mar 2002 8:37am

Dear all,

  Two weeks ago I posted the following here and have not seen any public
response.  Is gullophillia dead on this list?  (I admit that I myself have
been quite inactive lately.)  So I'm soliciting again the opinions of
knowledgeable people with Slaty-backed experience on this bird (or birds) in
upstate New York in late February.

  Some questions that I had about the photos were:

(1) The bill has quite a large gonys bulge.  Not impossible for Slaty, but
not typical.

(2) The bill does not have the usual color pattern.  Usually winter
Slaty-backeds have the basal two-thirds pink-flesh and the distal third
yellowish.  I don't know when in the spring this changes to the breeding
state.  This bird seems to have a greenish and yellowish bill base.

(3) The tertial crescent is not really very large.  On several images it is
quite similar to that of some nearby Herrings.

(4) The one photo that is a montage of four images of the spread wings is
unfortunately not very satisfying.  Believe me, I know how frustrating it
can be waiting for a bird to show its wings, and I sympathize with the
photographers.  But I just don't see anything conclusive here.  Furthermore,
I don't see evidence here of the very wide white trailing edge to the
secondaries of Slaty-backed.  Maybe the angle is just bad.

(5)  Slaty-backeds often show a long-necked look.  I don't get this effect
on any of the photos.  (not conclusive of course)

(6)  Slaty-backeds tend to have a round-headed look.  I don't get this
effect on many of the photos.   (not conclusive of course)

(7)  On several of the images the leg color is quite similar to that of some
nearby Herrings.

__Original post:

________________________________

   On February 23 an adult "Herring type" gull thought to be a Slaty-backed
was seen and photographed at a landfill in upstate New York, near Seneca
Falls,  which is near the northern end of Cayuga Lake.  The observers were
Kevin McGowan, Jay McGowan, and Steve Kelling (sorry if I've missed anyone).
Kevin McGowan asked me to post this information here and solicit opinions.

  The photos they took are at  http://birds.cornell.edu/dic/slbgul/index.htm

  Strangely, another adult bird was seen several days earlier around 150
miles to the southeast, near Liberty, New York.  That bird had been making
irregular appearances in that area for several weeks and was finally seen by
Paul Buckley, who (as I understand the story) identified it as a
Slaty-backed.  I am getting this info from the NYS listserve; I have not
seen either bird myself, nor have I spoken to Paul.  Some have speculated
that the same bird later showed up in Seneca Falls.  The Liberty bird has
not been seen since February 20.  A few photos of it are at

 http://community.webtv.net/vanhaas/JohnHaasbirdingpage

  At my web site below are some photos of Slaty-backeds from Ontario, Japan,
and Siberia, as well as some wanna-bees.

Bob Lewis
Sleepy Hollow NY
http://www.bway.net/~lewis/birds/gulls.html

_____________________________________________________

  Here is the description (Seneca Falls bird) given by Kevin McGowan:

Large Gull, as big or slightly larger than the male Herrings; substantially
smaller than Great Black-backed Gull.

Dark mantle; about the same shade as the Lesser Black-backed Gulls present;
lighter than Great Black-backed.

Dirty streaking on head and neck; less marked than the two Lessers
there.  Dark smudging around the light eye, in a flat triangular
shape.  The streaked head and mantle color made it confusable with Lesser
Black-backs, not Great.

Sturdy, but not too large a yellow bill with large red spot on lower
mandible.  Moderate angle at gonys.  Not a huge bill like a Great
Black-backed or a Western, but larger than Lesser Black-backed.  Thick and
long, so doesn't look hugely different from a Herring Gull bill, but in the
photos it is obviously larger: thicker and longer.

Head profile very flat.

Legs bright deep pink.  They were nearly purple-pink and quite
distinctively different from any other gull there.  The legs of Great
Black-backed were the color of dead flesh, while these were vibrant bubble
gum.  They were very apparently red to me, despite my deficiency in red
cones.  Leg color of gulls is not a character I notice without thinking
about it, but these were like no color I have ever seen.

The wings on the perched bird had large white tips to the outer primaries,
with the 5th or 6th white with a transverse black line.  The white on the
secondaries and tertials was very broad, broader than the Great Black-backs
near it, and much broader than the Lessers.  A very large tertial crescent.

The bird was very inactive, the least of all the gulls present.  They were
all preening and stretching, but this bird refused to do anything for long
periods of times.  Eventually it flew, and I managed to get some
video.  The "string of pearls" pale gray/white subterminal spots were
apparent from both above and below.  It appears that p10 has a completely
white tip, p9 has a very large white subterminal spot proximal to the
subterminal black line that blends into the white tip of p10.  P8 shows a
light gray mark on the inner vane only.  The obvious subterminal spot is
nearly white on p7 and p6, and p5 looks like it has only a thin black line
dividing the white tip.


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Subject: Kumlien's Gull
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 14 Mar 2002 8:59pm

As a large wave of arctic gulls hit Milwaukee today on northeast winds off
of Lake Michigan we had excellent looks at shorebound Thayer's, Glaucous and
a very close study of a subadult Kumlien's Iceland. This bird had a typical
all dark bill with a small flesh-colored base to the lower mandible
indicating a B1; I was a bit surprised at the amount of gray mantle feathers
present.

How typical is this pattern on a late B1 bird? See

http://community.webshots.com/user/idzikoj    in the "Milwaukee Birds"
album; one shot has been edited towards colder tones to highlight the mantle
grays.

John Idzikowski, Milwaukee