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ID-FRONTIERS for April 1-6, 2002
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Re: yellow-legged Great Black-backed Gulls | Shai Mitra | Mon, 1 Apr 2002 | 7:31am |
| Re: Aberrant Franklin's or Hybrid? | Martin Reid | Mon, 1 Apr 2002 | 9:30am |
| Gull with yellow legs in the Netherlands | Robert Kastelijn | Tue, 2 Apr 2002 | 3:50am |
| Re: Gull with yellow legs in the Netherlands | Peter Adriaens | Tue, 2 Apr 2002 | 5:33am |
| Re: Gull with yellow legs in the Netherlands | Pierre-Andre Crochet | Tue, 2 Apr 2002 | 10:28am |
| Re: Gull with yellow legs in the Netherlands | Rik Winters | Wed, 3 Apr 2002 | 11:38am |
| Re: Gull with yellow legs in the Netherlands | Dick Newell | Wed, 3 Apr 2002 | 2:10pm |
| Re: Teal and scoter variation | Martin Collinson | Wed, 3 Apr 2002 | 4:07pm |
| Tempus fugit | Michel Bertrand | Thu, 4 Apr 2002 | 9:20am |
| Re: yellow-legged Great Black-backed Gulls | Steven Mlodinow | Thu, 4 Apr 2002 | 10:32am |
| Vagrant Bunting (?) in Italy with photos | Menotti Passarella | Thu, 4 Apr 2002 | 1:54pm |
| Re: Teal and scoter variation | Norman D.van Swelm | Thu, 4 Apr 2002 | 2:20pm |
| Re: Vagrant Bunting (?) in Italy with photos | Jan Ole Kriegs | Fri, 5 Apr 2002 | 4:03am |
| Obscure Pacific Cettia | Brian Small | Fri, 5 Apr 2002 | 7:46am |
| Mystery birds in Trinidad | Floyd Hayes | Fri, 5 Apr 2002 | 8:56am |
| RFH: two interesting Gull gulls | Martin Reid | Fri, 5 Apr 2002 | 9:33am |
| Slaty-backed Gull ? | Alvaro Jaramillo | Fri, 5 Apr 2002 | 10:23am |
| Re: BIRDWG01] Vagrant Bunting (?) in Italy with
photos | Millington/BIS | Fri, 5 Apr 2002 | 12:54pm |
| Re: Vagrant Bunting (?) in Italy with photos | =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ricar | Fri, 5 Apr 2002 | 2:22pm |
| Re: Slaty-backed Gull ? | Robert H. Lewis | Sat, 6 Apr 2002 | 8:04am |
| Identification of Black Brant - Variability and
hybridization | Angus Wilson | Sat, 6 Apr 2002 | 4:44pm |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
|
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: yellow-legged Great Black-backed Gulls
From: Shai Mitra <tixbirdz(AT)GSOSUN1.GSO.URI.EDU>
Date: 1 Apr 2002 7:31am
Bruce's report is very timely for me because on several occasions during
the past month (most recently 30 March), several observers and I have seen
an adult Great Black-backed Gull with obviously greenish-yellow legs at
Jones Inlet, on the south shore of Long Island, New York.
This individual appears typical for GBBG in every other respect--even to
the extent that it is clearly paired with a male GBBG (the latter with dull
pink legs and normal GBBG vocalizations).
The yellow color tones on the tibia and tarsi are consistently visible
under a wide range of lighting conditions. Pink is visible on the webbing
between the toes.
I recall several similar birds reported from southern New England and Long
Island in recent years.
Best,
Shai Mitra
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Aberrant Franklin's or Hybrid?
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 1 Apr 2002 9:30am
Dear all,
I want to endorse Richard's suggestion, and mention that the primary
pattern is wrong for normal FRGUs:
Adult-type birds with large white apical P9/P10 tips also have very little
black basal to these white tips and thin black subterminal bars on P8 - P6
with no basal 'bleed" along the leading edge.
Subadult-types that have extensive black reaching towards the base of
P9/P10 also have a black apex, with at best a small white "mirror" set back
from the tip; they do have more black subterminally on P8 - P5, but it
still does not bleed backwards along the leading edge. I've been studying
the primary pattern of FRGUs for years now, and just yesterday I spent an
hour studying about 100 feeding FRGUs at very close range.
Cheers,
Martin
Richard wrote:
At 3/31/2002 04:28 PM +0100, you wrote:
>Hi all
>
>With regard to the odd gull at Draycote Water, UK,
>I guess Common X Mediterranean Gull hybrid would cover it,
>and neatly explain everything visible in these pictures.
>
>Such a hybrid possibility has been reported before
>and does seem the easiest explanation.
>
>Of course the odd Franklin's Gull could end up in a Common Gull colony
>(just as we know Laughing gets in with Ring-billed and Black-headeds),
>but maybe that is stretching feasibility a little?
>
>cheers
>Richard
>
>...........................
>sales(AT)birdingworld.co.uk
>(Birding World, Books for Birders & Birdline)
>Bird Information Service, Stonerunner, Coast Road,
>Cley next the Sea, Holt, Norfolk, NR25 7RZ, UK
>Tel. 44 (0) 1263 741139 Fax. 741173
>Website www.birdingworld.co.uk
>
>Re. Original Message :
>From: Tristan Reid Date: 31 March 2002 14:46
>
> >So my question is, is this an aberrant Franklin's Gull or is this a hybrid?
> >If it is a hybrid, then what is its parentage?
> >Images of the bird can be viewed on the following URL:
> >http://www.surfbirds.com/Rarities/draycote-gull-0302.html
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Gull with yellow legs in the Netherlands
From: Robert Kastelijn <robert.kastelijn(AT)PHILIPS.COM>
Date: 2 Apr 2002 3:50am
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
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Hi there,
I've recently asked Steve Hampton if he would place a pic I took on his
site.
It's at : http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/6181/dutch1.htm
It's a pic from a gull with yellow legs.
Can anyone please comment on what species this might be ??
Thanx in advance,
Robert
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Gull with yellow legs in the Netherlands
From: Peter Adriaens <peter.adriaens(AT)dutchbirding.nl>
Date: 2 Apr 2002 5:33am
Hello,
without good shots of the primary pattern, I think this bird cannot be
identified with certainty. The general impression I get from the single
photograph is rather that of Herring Gull (perhaps 4th year), in spite of
its yellow legs and thin bill. It does not look like a cachinnans to me, but
some characters are visible that arguably may suggest Caspian Gull (e.g.
thin bill, sloping forehead, P10 projects slightly beyond P9). The angle at
which the bird was photograhed, does not allow to correctly judge the length
of the legs nor primary projection. Again, without views of the primary
pattern, it is of little use to start thinking about alternatives, such as a
hybrid.
Regards,
Peter Adriaens
Belgium
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Gull with yellow legs in the Netherlands
From: Pierre-Andre Crochet <crochet(AT)CRIT.UNIV-MONTP2.FR>
Date: 2 Apr 2002 10:28am
Hi all,
Still not an expert on cachinnans, but I have seen a few argentatus in
Scandinavia, and sure enough the bird looks like one to me. Especially the
head and bill shape is variable in argentatus and I recall having seens
several birds while I was in Sweden which suggested cachinnans in head and
bill shape. The short leg - short body impression is I think rather
suggestive of argentatus, while the underside of P10 is good for
argentatus, no?
A 14:33 02/04/02 +0200, Peter Adriaens a écrit :
>Hello,
>
>without good shots of the primary pattern, I think this bird cannot be
>identified with certainty. The general impression I get from the single
>photograph is rather that of Herring Gull (perhaps 4th year), in spite of
>its yellow legs and thin bill. It does not look like a cachinnans to me, but
>some characters are visible that arguably may suggest Caspian Gull (e.g.
>thin bill, sloping forehead, P10 projects slightly beyond P9). The angle at
>which the bird was photograhed, does not allow to correctly judge the length
>of the legs nor primary projection. Again, without views of the primary
>pattern, it is of little use to start thinking about alternatives, such as a
>hybrid.
>
>Regards,
>Peter Adriaens
>Belgium
>
>
>
Pierre-Andre Crochet
Laboratoire de Biogeographie et Ecologie des Vertebres
EPHE - c.c. 94
Universite Montpellier II
Place Eugene Bataillon
34095 Montpellier cedex
France
crochet(AT)univ-montp2.fr
tel: + 33 (0)4 67 14 32 90
mobile + 33 (0)6 07 32 60 75
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Gull with yellow legs in the Netherlands
From: Rik Winters <gagel(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 3 Apr 2002 11:38am
Hi All,
Most probably it's a Herring Gull, although detail is lacking for a firm
statement. Everything visible fits this option, while for the obvious other
candidates -Yellow-legged and Caspian- some things do not really seem to
fit. Most important clues are in the shape of the head and bill, the colour
of the iris, the pattern on p10, the overall shape and to a certain extend
shape and colour of the legs.
Herring Gulls with yellow(ish) leg are not uncommon during winter in the
Netherlands, especially not in the east of the country.
There is, however, also the possibility of the bird being a hybrid as all
three mentioned species apparently do (occasionally) interbreed.
kind regards,
Rik Winters
----------
> Van: Robert Kastelijn <robert.kastelijn(AT)PHILIPS.COM>
> Aan: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Onderwerp: [BIRDWG01] Gull with yellow legs in the Netherlands
> Datum: dinsdag, april 02, 2002 12:49
>
Hi there,
I've recently asked Steve Hampton if he would place a pic I took on his
site.
It's at : http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/6181/dutch1.htm
It's a pic from a gull with yellow legs.
Can anyone please comment on what species this might be ??
Thanx in advance,
Robert
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Gull with yellow legs in the Netherlands
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
Date: 3 Apr 2002 2:10pm
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Ref: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/6181/dutch1.htm
There is not enough visible on this bird to be able to say any more than it
has Herring Gull in its ancestry =AD and maybe that=B9s all it=B9s got.
On the other hand, we are forever trying to pigeon-hole gulls (in
particular) into some pre-conceived notion of a species. There are plenty o=
f
places in the world where there is a lot of hybridisation going on between
forms whose ranges have collided (US west coast, Iceland to name 2). There
is even a paper by Panov and Monzikov (see abstract:
http://www.maik.rssi.ru/cgi-bin/search.pl?type=3Dabstract&name=3Dzooeng&number=3D=
1
&year=3D99&page=3D129 )
that concludes that there is a cline from argentatus in northern Finnmark
all the way to cachinnans on the Black Sea. The same authors, in another
paper (in BB) about gulls the other side of the Urals, concluded that
barabensis is derived from the introgression of cachinnans into heuglini (o=
r
vice versa).=20
It is not uncommon to see birds that are essentially Herring Gulls with
some Glaucous traits or Herring Gulls with some cachinnans traits or
cachinnans with michahellis traits, armenicus is known to be hybridising
with michahellis. What=B9s actually going on is rather more complicated than =
a
set of evolved pure species. Intermediate birds are rather more common-plac=
e
than is generally accepted. The challenge is: how can we be confident of
identifying them correctly?
It is always possible that the Dutch gull comes from some place on the
Panov-Monzikov cline.
Dick
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Teal and scoter variation
From: Martin Collinson <docmartin2mc(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 3 Apr 2002 4:07pm
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Tempus fugit
From: Michel Bertrand <bertrmi(AT)COLBA.NET>
Date: 4 Apr 2002 9:20am
Tempus fugit.
= Ça achève.
= Deadline is close.
See English version after the French one.
Je vous rappelle que l'échéance du Défi de QuébecOiseaux est fixée au 5
avril. Vous pouvez voir l'oiseau mystère en cliquant sur l'adresse
électronique au bas du présent message. N'oubliez pas d'inclure votre nom et
votre adresse postale.
That's just a reminder about the QuébecOiseaux quiz. The deadline for
sending me your answer is April 5th. See the mystery bird at the URL which
follows my signature hereafter. I have sent a translation of the webpage
text to this forum on March 10th. Don't forget to include your name and
postal address.
Bonne chance... / Good luck...
MICHEL BERTRAND
Sainte-Julie, Qc
bertrmi(AT)colba.net
N'oubliez pas d'identifier l'oiseau mystère :
Don't forget to identify the mystery bird at :
http://www.quebecoiseaux.qc.ca/HTML/Defi.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: yellow-legged Great Black-backed Gulls
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 4 Apr 2002 10:32am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Greetings All
There was a note, by Jon King and SNG Howell I believe, regarding the
occurrence of yellow(ish) legs in Western Gulls. I can't locate it in my
files, unfortunately, though I believe it appeared in Birders Journal or
Western Birds. The occurrence of this "aberration" was, as I recall,
seasonal. Anyway, it seems as if leg color in gulls needs to be used with
caution as an ID mark.
Cheers
Steve Mlodinow
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Vagrant Bunting (?) in Italy with photos
From: Menotti Passarella <aster_men(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 4 Apr 2002 1:54pm
Hi all.
Here are two photos taken two years ago, in October,
in the Po Delta, NE Italy: the period is good for a
vagrant from Asia. According to me it’s a bunting.
What about the Yellow-browed Bunting (Emberiza
chrysophrys) ?
http://it.geocities.com/podeltabirds/bunting01
http://it.geocities.com/podeltabirds/bunting02
Regards
Menotti Passarella
Italy
aster_menyahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Teal and scoter variation
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 4 Apr 2002 2:20pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Martin Collinson wrote:>It's not unusual for male Common Scoters M. =
nigra nigra to show larger than normal amounts of yellow on the bill ( =
see British Birds 82, 616-618 (1989)). These are usually assumed to be =
2y birds (see BWP). <=20
All three males (one dead, two alive) I found were adult (3y or =
older). I know and have seen several 2y males nigra nigra which indeed =
showed a little more yellow than adults.
>There is no evidence of a hybrid zone between nigra and americana =
around the R. Lena, and it is uncertain whether the range of the two =
subspecies meet. Diagnosing a hybrid pair would seem to pose a problem, =
since females are only doubtfully identifiable (see Birding World 6, =
78-79 (1993) but don't try it at home err..? Dr.Freud again Martin?) and =
I have heard of no reported hybrids. <
I agree with Martin this is a difficult case to proof let alone to =
find such a pair, that's why sightings of unusual looking americana's =
would make things a little easier.
Norman
=20
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Vagrant Bunting (?) in Italy with photos
From: Jan Ole Kriegs <kriegs(AT)UNI-MUENSTER.DE>
Date: 5 Apr 2002 4:03am
Hello!
Well in my opinion the bird´s structure does not fit for many eastern-
palearctic buntings. Especially for a Yellow-browed Bunting the bill seems
much too strong to me. There should also be more streaking on breast and
flanks. The colour patterns of supercilium, cap and bill and also the
structure might fit to a Bobolink. The lores look quite dark, but this might
be some shaddow effect. The bird looks a little bit feeble.
What do you think?
Best wishes,
Jan Ole Kriegs
kriegs(AT)uni-muenster.de
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Obscure Pacific Cettia
From: Brian Small <BrianJSmall(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 5 Apr 2002 7:46am
Hi.
In my continuing search for reference material on obscure Pacific Island
forms of Acrocephalus and Cettia, I am now asking if anyone can help me with
material for my last Cettia plate.
I am trying to get together information and preferably images of the
following:-
Cettia seebohmi
Cettia annae
Cettia parens
Cettia ruficapilla of the forms ruficapilla, badiceps, castaneoptera and
funebris
Cettia carolinae
Any help would be most gratefully received and acknowledged in the book.
Brian Small
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Mystery birds in Trinidad
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 5 Apr 2002 8:56am
Several months ago I provided URLs for several "mystery birds" in Trinidad
(unfortunately there were technical glitches with a couple of URLs at the
time) but procrastinated on a follow-up report (apologies for
cross-postings):
1) suspected immature White-tailed Hawk: one respondent thought it looked
good but thought Harris's Hawk couldn't be eliminated.
http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttmysteryhawk
2) suspected subadult Rufous Crab-Hawk: no comments received but accepted by
Trinidad and Tobago Rare Bird Committee (TTRBC) after first-round rejection.
http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttrufouscrab-hawk
3) suspected 1st-summer Lesser Black-backed Gull (identity queried by Lyn
Atherton of Florida): two respondents suggested Kelp Gull but I think the
bill is too thin (perhaps I should rescan a few photos).
http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds
http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttlesserblack-backedgull1
4) suspected Yellow-legged/Caspian/Heuglin's Gull: later relocated and
identified as a dark-billed, 2nd-winter Lesser Black-backed Gull, as a few
respondents correctly surmised (I've added a few more more lousy photos and
want to delete them all soon).
http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttmysterygull
5) suspected Variegated Flycatcher, but possibly an immature Piratic
Flycatcher: several respondents confirmed Variegated Flycatcher for reasons
posted at URL, now accepted by TTRBC. Also, photo of Piratic Flycatcher in
North American Birds 55(2):248, 2001, was correctly identified.
http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttvariegatedflycatcher
Floyd E. Hayes
Lecturer in Zoology
*********************************************
Department of Life Sciences
University of the West Indies
St. Augustine
Trinidad and Tobago
Tel: 868-645-3233 x2206
Fax: 868-663-5241
Website: http://www.geocities.com/floyd_hayes
*********************************************
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: RFH: two interesting Gull gulls
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 5 Apr 2002 9:33am
Dear all,
I'd like to canvass feedback on the following two gulls from the
northwestern Gulf of Mexico:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp22.html - from Texas, and
http://losbird.org/bulletin/swan/lbbg.jpg - from Louisiana
I'd prefer public replies to ID-F, but private responses are fine (I'll not
make them public without your approval).
Thanks,
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Slaty-backed Gull ?
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 5 Apr 2002 10:23am
Birders:
Cathy and Allan Murrant of Cape Breton, Nova Scotia photographed an
oddball gull. Its been identified as a Slaty-backed Gull and they would
like comments.
here is the gull-
http://www.seascape.ns.ca/~shearwater/gullphoto.html
also have a look at that beautiful Ivory Gull, now that's a gull!!
please cc them if you have comments (shearwater(AT)seascape.ns.ca) , they are
not on this list. They would like to figure out the ID of this bird and
welcome the input.
regards
Al
Alvaro Jaramillo
Biologist
San Francisco Bay Bird Observatory
P.O. Box 247
Alviso, CA 95002
(408)-946-6548
http://www.sfbbo.org/
chucao(AT)attbi.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: BIRDWG01] Vagrant Bunting (?) in Italy with
photos
From: Millington/BIS <sales(AT)birdingworld.co.uk>
Date: 5 Apr 2002 12:54pm
Hi
The bill of this bird looks suspiciously like an African seed-eater,
and the plumage very like a female wydah or widowbird?
(If so, an escape, presumably)
cheers
Richard Millington
...........................
sales(AT)birdingworld.co.uk
(Birding World, Books for Birders & Birdline)
Bird Information Service, Stonerunner, Coast Road,
Cley next the Sea, Holt, Norfolk, NR25 7RZ, UK
Tel. 44 (0) 1263 741139 Fax. 741173
Website www.birdingworld.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: Menotti Passarella <aster_men(AT)YAHOO.COM>
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu <BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
Date: 04 April 2002 21:57
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Vagrant Bunting (?) in Italy with photos
>Hi all.
>
>Here are two photos taken two years ago, in October,
>in the Po Delta, NE Italy: the period is good for a
>vagrant from Asia. According to me its a bunting.
>What about the Yellow-browed Bunting (Emberiza
>chrysophrys) ?
>
>http://it.geocities.com/podeltabirds/bunting01
>
>http://it.geocities.com/podeltabirds/bunting02
>
>Regards
>
>Menotti Passarella
>Italy
>aster_menyahoo.com
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
>http://taxes.yahoo.com/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Vagrant Bunting (?) in Italy with photos
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ricard_Guti=E9rrez?= <GUTARB(AT)TERRA.ES>
Date: 5 Apr 2002 2:22pm
Hello all:
I agree with Richard Millington in this bird seeming a wydah (e.g. Vidua
macroura) female or something similar (I have not really checked the
literature): some years ago we received a bunch of photos of a bird near
Barcelona harbour which looked extremely similar to a small American
Sparrow. Everything initially pointed towards that or to a Emberiza
chrysophrys. BUT it was indeed a female Vidua. The shape of the bill Italian
bird, for me, does not fit a Bunting. Besides, it seems small and chunky.
These escapes can behave absolutely wild, without any sign of having been
kept in captivity. Furthermore, autumn is the time of the year (at least in
NE Spain) when most of these escapes turn up to be present around.And there
are a lot of them. Here in Spain, our 'E' list (following the AERC
terminology) is long: 187 species. This list can be downloaded for your
reference in pdf format from the files section of my website Rare Birds in
Spain www.rarebirdspain.net The 'regular' Spanish list (A,B,C plus D
categories too) is also in the same site.
Yours
Ricard Gutiérrez
www.rarebirdspain.net
Spanish RC
5.4.2002
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Slaty-backed Gull ?
From: "Robert H. Lewis" <lewis(AT)BWAY.NET>
Date: 6 Apr 2002 8:04am
on 4/5/02 12:21 PM, Alvaro Jaramillo at chucao(AT)ATTBI.COM wrote:
> Birders:
>
> Cathy and Allan Murrant of Cape Breton, Nova Scotia photographed an
> oddball gull. Its been identified as a Slaty-backed Gull and they would
> like comments.
>
> here is the gull-
> http://www.seascape.ns.ca/~shearwater/gullphoto.html
>
> please cc them if you have comments (shearwater(AT)seascape.ns.ca) , they are
> not on this list. They would like to figure out the ID of this bird and
> welcome the input.
>
> regards
>
> Al
>
> Alvaro Jaramillo
Hello All,
Do you mean the bird labeled "hybrid Herring Gull X Grt. Black-backed
Gull"? That's the only one I see there that looks at all like a Slaty-back.
I think the I.d. as hybrid HEGU X GBBG is reasonable. I do not think it
is a Slaty-back. Reasons:
(1) fifth photo: head shape is wrong, too peaked. legs not red enough.
tertial crescent is too small.
(2) third photo, secondary bar is much too small. primary pattern is
strange for Slaty-back, though maybe could fit as an extreme case. primary
pattern seems quite reasonable for hybrid HEGU X GBBG.
Would some more experienced observers like to compare this bird to the New
York bird at http://birds.cornell.edu/dic/slbgul/index.htm ?
Bob Lewis
Sleepy Hollow NY
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Identification of Black Brant - Variability and
hybridization
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 6 Apr 2002 4:44pm
Identification of Black Brant - Questions of variability and outcomes of
hybridization.
I haven't seen any public responses to the posting from Paul Buckley and
Shai Mitra regarding two Black-type Brant they photographed in New York
last month. In the hope of injecting new energy into this debate, Andy
Guthrie and I have assembled a series of photos of three 'Black-type'
Brant taken at the same localities (Riis Park, Queens Co., NY and Point
Lookout, Nassau, Co., NY) a few days later.
Review of these birds raises the difficult issue of how the poorly known
'Gray-bellied Brant' (aka 'Melville Island Brant') can be identified
when out of range and whether hybrid Black x Atlantic Brant occur in
eastern North America. With regard to the latter, we include photos of a
candidate hybrid brant.
An introduction to these four birds can be found at:
http://www.oceanwanderers.com/NY123BlckBrnt.html
Additional photodocumentation can be found here:
http://www.oceanwanderers.com/NY1BlckBrnt.html
http://www.oceanwanderers.com/NY2BlckBrnt.html
http://www.oceanwanderers.com/NY3BlckBrnt.html
Additional shots of Black-type Brants from the same area but taken in
previous years can be found here:
http://www.oceanwanderers.com/GBBRT.html
http://www.oceanwanderers.com/BBrantNY.html
http://www.oceanwanderers.com/JBNWRBlBr.html
Thoughts and comments on these birds would be greatly appreciated. We
would especially like to hear from observers from around the Pacific Rim
who encounter Black Brant (and/or Gray-bellied Brant) on a regular
basis. To promote sharing of information, we encourage postings to the
entire list.
Cheers, Angus Wilson
**************************
New York City
wilsoa02(AT)med.nyu.edu
http://www.oceanwanderers.com
**************************
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