ID-FRONTIERS for April 14-20, 2002

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Another "mystery bird" in Trinidad   Floyd Hayes    Mon, 15 Apr 2002   7:46am   Re: Mystery tern   Floyd Hayes    Mon, 15 Apr 2002   8:55am   Comments on ID of two gulls   Tim Vaughan    Mon, 15 Apr 2002   2:24pm   Trinidad "mystery tern"   Floyd Hayes    Mon, 15 Apr 2002   5:14pm   Re: Trinidad "mystery tern"   Julian Hough    Mon, 15 Apr 2002   6:37pm   Re: Trinidad "mystery tern"   Martin Reid    Tue, 16 Apr 2002   5:47am   Trinidad "mystery tern"   Floyd Hayes    Wed, 17 Apr 2002   8:16am   Comments on ID of two gulls   Stichting JOM    Thu, 18 Apr 2002   6:26am   Dwight's Gulls   ian paulsen    Fri, 19 Apr 2002   2:12pm   Re: Dwight's Gulls   Norman D.van Swelm   Fri, 19 Apr 2002   3:24pm

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Subject: Another "mystery bird" in Trinidad
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 15 Apr 2002 7:46am

I'm curious to know others' opinions on the identity of an odd "Mystery
Bird," obviously a tern, posted near the bottom of:

http://www.wow.net/ttfnc/rarebird.html

I think I know what it is but I'm troubled about a few features.

As for a few other "mystery birds" from Trinidad posted earlier, there seems
to be a unanimous consensus among several respondents that the "mystery
hawk" (http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttmysteryhawk) is indeed an
immature White-tailed Hawk.

A well known expert on gull ID concurred that the 1st-summer "Lesser
Black-backed Gull" (http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds; also
http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttlesserblack-backedgull1) looks good
for a Kelp Gull and queried whether a LBBG would have such a white head, but
another urged caution. I'll work on getting some better scans posted in the
near future.

Floyd E. Hayes
Lecturer in Zoology
**********************************************************
Department of Life Sciences, University of the West Indies
St. Augustine, Trinidad and Tobago
Tel: 868-645-3233 x2206; Fax: 868-663-5241
Website: http://www.geocities.com/floyd_hayes
**********************************************************

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Subject: Re: Mystery tern
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 15 Apr 2002 8:55am

The mystery tern was photographed on 17 March 2002 at Waterloo, Trinidad.

-Floyd

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Subject: Comments on ID of two gulls
From: Tim Vaughan <family(AT)VAUGHAN63.FSNET.CO.UK>
Date: 15 Apr 2002 2:24pm

Hi all

Martin Reid suggesed (7-4-02) that we look at two gull photos from New Mexico.
My initial thoughts from a UK perspective were that bird no.1 (seen in Texas)
was definitely not an LBBG but could be L.f.heuglini and, that bird no.2 had a
heavy structure and was also not an LBBG. In some photos bird no.2 looks more
like a YL Gull e.g on the beach but in others like a GBBG - look at the huge
beast appearance as it flew over the sea. These are my first impressions and
could be way off. What do others think ?

Tim Vaughan


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Subject: Trinidad "mystery tern"
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 15 Apr 2002 5:14pm

I've just uploaded several photos of this tern, including one in which its
size can be compared with Laughing Gulls, at:

http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttmysterytern

If you have difficulty accessing this page, which may be limited to as few
as 20 hits per hour, try again later.

We initially--and reluctantly--dismissed this bird as an odd-plumaged
immature Gull-billed Tern (occurs regularly here) with abnormally red legs.
But I remained unconvinced--especially after examining the photos. To me the
bill seems too long and slender, the plumage too contrasting, and the legs
of course are the wrong color (anybody ever see one with red legs?).

One correspondent suggested an odd Sandwich Tern, which I think should be
distinctly crested. Another suggested a 1st-winter Forster's Tern molting
into 1st-summer plumage, which I think has potential, but the carpal bar
seems much too bold (or is it?)--which is why we dismissed it. If a
Forster's Tern, it would be a first record for South America (nearest record
is from Guadeloupe). Any further thoughts would be greatly appreciated...

-Floyd

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Subject: Re: Trinidad "mystery tern"
From: Julian Hough <Jrhough1(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 15 Apr 2002 6:37pm

Based on bill size, structure and long reddish legs, combined with the dark
ear covert patch, I think the tern is a bleached Forster's Tern, rather than
Common.

Julian Hough
CT, USA

Naturescape Images website:
http://members.aol.com/jrhough1/index.html


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Subject: Re: Trinidad "mystery tern"
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 16 Apr 2002 5:47am

Dear Floyd/All,
I feel that this is a COTE/FOTE type bird.  The bill and apparent leg
length do seem to favor FOTE, yet the strength of the lesser-covert patch -
in March - seems extreme for FOTE, plus the P-molt seems better for COTE;
the most obvious COTE feature (unless i am misinterpreting it) seems to be
the tail pattern, which shows a blackish outer edge to the outer retrix (as
in COTE/ARTE) - not the white outer edge plus dark tips to the inner
retrices (as in FOTE).  Looking again at the legs, the tern's efforts to
perch on wires may be affecting the perception of length; there seems to be
very little tibia showing....
Cheers,
Martin

At 4/15/2002 08:14 PM -0400, you wrote:
>I've just uploaded several photos of this tern, including one in which its
>size can be compared with Laughing Gulls, at:
>
>http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttmysterytern

Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com


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Subject: Trinidad "mystery tern"
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 17 Apr 2002 8:16am

I thank the nine individuals who responded to the Trinidad "mystery tern"
photos (http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttmysterytern), especially the
two who dared to go public. The only definitive conclusion is that it won't
represent South America's first Forster's Tern. The identifications offered
were all tentative and entertainingly diverse:

Common Tern, 3
Forster's Tern, 2
Gull-billed Tern, 2
Sandwich Tern, 1
Roseate Tern, 1

Obviously this tern was not typical of any species. In retrospect I'm now
leaning toward Common Tern. It seems more likely that the black on the nape
of a Common Tern would fade away than for any other candidate species to
retain or acquire such a prominent carpal bar (typical of Common Tern) or a
dark outer web of the outermost retrix (typical of Common Tern) by March. I
concur with a few individuals who were confident the bill shape and leg
coloration were wrong for both Gull-billed and Sandwich Terns. However, one
respondent pointed out that a juvenile Gull-billed Tern in Louisiana last
year was initially identified as a Black-headed Gull based on its reddish
bill and legs. We're all beguiled occasionally by an oddity.

Any further thoughts on this tern?

Floyd E. Hayes
Lecturer in Zoology
**********************************************************
Department of Life Sciences, University of the West Indies
St. Augustine, Trinidad and Tobago
Tel: 868-645-3233 x2206; Fax: 868-663-5241
Website: http://www.geocities.com/floyd_hayes
**********************************************************

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Subject: Comments on ID of two gulls
From: Stichting JOM <jom(AT)JOM.NL>
Date: 18 Apr 2002 6:26am

A few comments on the gulls of Martin Reids website and responding to the
mail by Tim:

The first bird: http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp22.html
It’s a bird from February 6 and unlike Tim, I can’t see why this couldn’t be
a Lesser Black-backed Gull. It’s rather heavy build especially with a strong
neck. Whether this should be the key feature for Heuglin’s I’m not sure.
Here in the Netherlands we sometimes see strongly build LBBG, not unlike a
GBBG in some respects.
Have look at this one:
http://www.geocities.com/muussesite5/lbbgoct/2cyoctpic25.htm
And especially this one:
http://www.geocities.com/muussesite4/lbbgnovdec/2cynovpic5.htm
The second bird is an example of the stout, strong LBBG, ofwhich we found
birds wearing Belgium rings and were ringed as pullus in the colony.
Structure therefore may be a misleading feature to pin down LBBG.
There are a few characteristics this gull shares with most LBBG:
-       the black bill in winter,
-       the rather pale head with an accentuated dark patch around the eye,
-       the obvious tail-band which stays equally broad over the complete
length,
-       the all dark inner-hand including the p1-3 giving no hint of a paler
window,
-       the dark outer greater coverts, which do not really stand out in the
image
of the folded wing, but in the image of  the bird with raised wings, the
outer greater coverts can be seen and appear almost as dark as the secondary
centres,
-       the extensive dark centres of the tertials, lacking deep notching.
The pictures don’t give much room for digging any deeper into the scapular
and mantle feathers, which seem to be juvenile for most, though two dark
centred feathers are visible on the back in the upper row of upper
scapulars, they seem to have a neat white fringe and could be second
generation. If so, they show a pattern commonly found in 2nd generation LBBG
scapulars, see f.i. this bird, ringed in Belgium and photographed by Pim
Wolf on exactly the same date:
http://www.geocities.com/muussesite4/2cyfebBGAD
Maybe Brush can tell more about the way he feels this bird looks completely
different from the numerous LBBG seen in Texas.

The second bird is labelled LBBG in the caption:
http://losbird.org/bulletin/swan/lbbg.jpg
But I agree with Tim that it has an YLG look in certain pictures, with a
long neck, flat head, long tibia, its like this 2cy bird from May in France:
http://us.geocities.com/birdsnaps2/4237.html
If I’m counting right, p4-p10 are retained 1st generation primaries and p1
is growing again and almost at its full length. P1 again shows a somewhat
paler innerweb and on the old pimaries, the paler innerwebs are obvious on
at least p4 en p5. Some LBBG show relatively pale innerwebs, as some YLG
show rather dark innerwebs (like the next one in image 1:
http://us.geocities.com/birdsnaps4/michajuvjuly ). There seems to be some
overlap in this feature between LBBG and YLG.
The tail cerainly doesn’t show a broad tail-band as can be found in most
LBBG, on the other hand it’s not particularly the pattern of average YLG or
GBBG.
Another rather odd feature, no in line with most YLG can be found in the
coverts, which seem to be still juvenile, without 2nd generation feathers.
By May, most YLG have started the covert moult
http://us.geocities.com/birdsnaps2/4247.html or you’ll find 2nd generation
feathers which were included in the partial moult last autumn
http://us.geocities.com/birdsnaps2/4232.html . However, from the images its
hard to judge the patterns and age the individual feathers, so if any notes
were made in the field by Roger, this could help a lot. In general, this
bird may well fall within the limits of LBBG, with it’s pale head
http://www.geocities.com/muussesite1/lbbgjanmay/02cymay.htm .

These notes are just what I think, keeping in mind the continental European
appearance of LBBG and YLG… We find these 2cy LBBG in May to be highly
variable, and usualy classify them in sub-groups, as was done on the May
section of LBBG on this site:
http://www.geocities.com/muussesite1/lbbgjanmay/02cymay.htm

So, unlike Tim, I feel for LBBG in both cases, but may be miles off as well…

Mars Muusse
Amsterdam


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Subject: Dwight's Gulls
From: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 19 Apr 2002 2:12pm

HI ALL:
 I was looking at a copy of Dwight's Gulls of the World (1925) the other
day and I was wondering if it is still a useful reference??
Sincerely

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"


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Subject: Re: Dwight's Gulls
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 19 Apr 2002 3:24pm

Absolutely! Is it for sale?
Norman

> I was looking at a copy of Dwight's Gulls of the World (1925) the other
>day and I was wondering if it is still a useful reference??
>Sincerely
>
>Ian Paulsen
>Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
>ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
>A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
>"Rallidae all the way"