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ID-FRONTIERS for May 19-25, 2002
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Re: Strange Egretta sp. | Floyd Hayes | Sun, 19 May 2002 | 6:50am |
| Juv. Snowy Egret bare parts | Julian Hough | Sun, 19 May 2002 | 12:35pm |
| Re: Juv. Snowy Egret bare parts | David Sibley | Mon, 20 May 2002 | 6:43am |
| Re: Strange Egretta sp. | David Sibley | Mon, 20 May 2002 | 7:16am |
| Out-of-range Black-bellied Whistling-Ducks | pabuckley | Mon, 20 May 2002 | 7:19am |
| NEW LISTSERVER | ian paulsen | Mon, 20 May 2002 | 10:27am |
| Re: Juv. Snowy Egret bare parts | Floyd Hayes | Mon, 20 May 2002 | 1:02pm |
| RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort Worth | Martin Reid | Tue, 21 May 2002 | 9:25am |
| Re: mottled vs. mallard | David Sibley | Wed, 22 May 2002 | 1:47pm |
| Re: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort
Worth | David Sibley | Wed, 22 May 2002 | 5:17pm |
| Re: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort
Worth | Barb Beck | Wed, 22 May 2002 | 10:36pm |
| Elegant Tern in Florida | ian paulsen | Thu, 23 May 2002 | 4:16pm |
| Elegant and Sandwich tern hybrids | Bill Pranty | Thu, 23 May 2002 | 5:12pm |
| Re: Elegant Tern in Florida | Kimball Garrett | Thu, 23 May 2002 | 5:17pm |
| Re: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort
Worth | Martin Reid | Thu, 23 May 2002 | 5:47pm |
| Re: Elegant Tern in Florida | Laurent Raty | Thu, 23 May 2002 | 6:47pm |
| Lesser-crested Terns in Italy (PHOTO) | Menotti Passarella | Thu, 23 May 2002 | 10:24pm |
| Re: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort
Worth | Tony Leukering | Fri, 24 May 2002 | 7:13am |
| Re: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort
Worth | Lethaby, Nick | Fri, 24 May 2002 | 12:53pm |
| Re: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort
Worth | Don Roberson | Fri, 24 May 2002 | 5:18pm |
| Re: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort
Worth | Barb Beck | Fri, 24 May 2002 | 5:57pm |
| Fw: Little Grebe iris color | Ross Silcock | Fri, 24 May 2002 | 8:48pm |
| Re: Fw: Little Grebe iris color | Alain Foss=?ISO-8859 | Fri, 24 May 2002 | 11:51pm |
| Re: Santa Barbara Solitary Vireo, etc. | Martin Reid | Sat, 25 May 2002 | 5:37am |
| An Oriole from Wiscosnsin | John Idzikowski | Sat, 25 May 2002 | 6:07am |
| Barb Beck's audio Clips on my web page | Martin Reid | Sat, 25 May 2002 | 10:16am |
| Re: Barb Beck's audio Clips on my web page | Joseph Morlan | Sat, 25 May 2002 | 1:41pm |
| Re: Fw: Little Grebe iris color | Peter Adriaens | Sat, 25 May 2002 | 5:04pm |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
|
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Strange Egretta sp.
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 19 May 2002 6:50am
I concur with Jack that the bill and perhaps the legs look too thick for
Snowy Egret. Also the forehead looks too flat. The yellow extending up the
tarsus is probably indicative of a juvenile. Lore coloration of Little
Egrets in Barbados, Trinidad and Tobago is far more variable (usually bluish
but I've seen individuals with pale gray, greenish- yellow, deep red and
even one with chestnut) than that of Snowy Egrets (consistently deep yellow,
changing to orange-red when breeding), but juvenile Snowy Egrets in August
and September have grayish lores and can be confused easily with Little
Egret. I wouldn't be surprised if some birds are hybridizing (a cross-mating
was once observed in Barbados). A few comparative shots are posted at
http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttlittleegret
Floyd E. Hayes
Lecturer in Zoology
**********************************************************
Department of Life Sciences, University of the West Indies
St. Augustine, Trinidad and Tobago
Tel: 868-645-3233 x2206; Fax: 868-663-5241
Website: http://www.geocities.com/floyd_hayes
**********************************************************
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Juv. Snowy Egret bare parts
From: Julian Hough <Jrhough1(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 19 May 2002 12:35pm
Floyd Hayes wrote, in response to the Italian egret, "but juvenile Snowy
Egrets in August and September have grayish lores and can be confused easily
with Little
Egret".
Is this true? All Snowy Egrets I have seen during July-September in NJ, have
had nothing but adult-like sulphur yellow lores, and despite looking at many
Snowies, I have never seen one that approached the bluish/bluish-green of an
adult Little.
Julian Hough,
CT, USA
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Juv. Snowy Egret bare parts
From: David Sibley <dsibley(AT)SHORE.NET>
Date: 20 May 2002 6:43am
Julian et al,
The dark gray lores of some juvenile Snowy Egrets were a topic of discussion
here a few years ago, regarding a bird Martin Reid photographed in Texas. I
can summarize that a large percentage (maybe 50%) of nestling Snowys have
dark gray lores and bills, while the rest have yellowish lores and bills
(this data from a paper in The Living Bird, which I don't have in front of
me). I have seen fledged juvenile Snowys with dark gray lores in California
and in a number of eastern states, so it is apparent that at least a few
individuals keep this dark gray color after fledging. All the ones I have
seen have been in Jul-Sep, and have been obviously very young juveniles with
round head, some down still clinging to the head, etc. so just being aware
that lore color is not reliable on birds of that age should prevent
confusion.
David Sibley
Concord. MA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Hough" <Jrhough1(AT)AOL.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 3:35 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Juv. Snowy Egret bare parts
> Floyd Hayes wrote, in response to the Italian egret, "but juvenile Snowy
> Egrets in August and September have grayish lores and can be confused
easily
> with Little
> Egret"
>
> Is this true? All Snowy Egrets I have seen during July-September in NJ,
have
> had nothing but adult-like sulphur yellow lores, and despite looking at
many
> Snowies, I have never seen one that approached the bluish/bluish-green of
an
> adult Little.
>
> Julian Hough,
> CT, USA
>
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Strange Egretta sp.
From: David Sibley <dsibley(AT)SHORE.NET>
Date: 20 May 2002 7:16am
Hi All,
I just re-read this message, and I see that Floyd implies that ALL juvenile
Snowys in Trinidad have dark lores. So I agree with Julian's general point
that this is certainly not the case here in the US and Canada, where it is
rare to see a fledged Snowy with dark lores. If this is accurate, this is an
interesting bit of geographic variation....
David Sibley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Floyd Hayes" <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Strange Egretta sp.
> I concur with Jack that the bill and perhaps the legs look too thick for
> Snowy Egret. Also the forehead looks too flat. The yellow extending up the
> tarsus is probably indicative of a juvenile. Lore coloration of Little
> Egrets in Barbados, Trinidad and Tobago is far more variable (usually
bluish
> but I've seen individuals with pale gray, greenish- yellow, deep red and
> even one with chestnut) than that of Snowy Egrets (consistently deep
yellow,
> changing to orange-red when breeding), but juvenile Snowy Egrets in August
> and September have grayish lores and can be confused easily with Little
> Egret. I wouldn't be surprised if some birds are hybridizing (a
cross-mating
> was once observed in Barbados). A few comparative shots are posted at
> http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttlittleegret
>
> Floyd E. Hayes
> Lecturer in Zoology
> **********************************************************
> Department of Life Sciences, University of the West Indies
> St. Augustine, Trinidad and Tobago
> Tel: 868-645-3233 x2206; Fax: 868-663-5241
> Website: http://www.geocities.com/floyd_hayes
> **********************************************************
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Out-of-range Black-bellied Whistling-Ducks
From: pabuckley <pabuckley(AT)URI.EDU>
Date: 20 May 2002 7:19am
In the early 1990s, with little warning, Black-bellied
Whistling-Ducks began venturing far out of their normal range, even
up to northeastern United States and adjacent Canada, much as Fulvous
Whistling-Ducks did in the late 1950s and 1960s. At the time, many,
even most, of the Black-bellies were dismissed as 'escapes' by their
finders, local/regional/national publications, or record committees.
It is now apparent that this irruption was a genuinely natural
phenomenon, but many of the first records have remained lost,
obscured, or suppressed. In addition, there are a few known earlier
incidents, such as a breeding in Tennessee in 1978, that most
observers are unaware of (provenance aside), and there have been
intimations of even earlier occurrences.
An analysis is underway attempting to reconstruct the history of this
striking population change, and to this end information is solicited
on any and all reports of out-of-range Black-bellied Whistling-Ducks
in the United States and Canada at any time-even of individuals
'known' to have been escapes-so the wheat may be separated from the
chaff. For example, a feral population was established in the Dade
Co. area of Florida as far back as the 1960s, but this might have
been later augmented by the arrival of wild dispersants from the West.
Additional information of great value in this effort would be any
firm data on proven releases/escapes, on how widely B-B W-Ds are kept
in captivity, and if any are known to be/have been free-flying.
To the extent possible, dates of arrivals and departure, locations,
numbers, and ages of all individuals are requested, as well as any
published citations. Please reply privately to the email address
below, and all respondents will be acknowledged in publications
resulting from this analysis. Thanks in advance to all contributors.
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: NEW LISTSERVER
From: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 20 May 2002 10:27am
HI ALL:
There is a brand NEW listserver for people interested in bird books. It
is called birdbooklist and is available through yahoo.com at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/birdbooklist to subscribe!
Thanks
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Juv. Snowy Egret bare parts
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 20 May 2002 1:02pm
I'm not certain that ALL juvenile Snowy Egrets in Trinidad have grayish
lores. During the last several years we've seen a FEW, no more than three in
a day, among hundreds of foraging Snowy Egrets in July-September. We
initially suspected they were Little Egrets or perhaps even hybrids, but
structurally they were clearly Snowy Egrets; after noting some paleness on
the bill and legs, we concluded they were juveniles. I recall previous
correspondence with Paul Buckley who mentioned an article in Living Bird and
confirmed our suspicions.
On 11 May I photographed what I initially thought was an odd adult, based on
its bright yellow lores, with abnormally bright greenish-yellow legs. In
retrospect I think it's a juvenile (very early in the year), based on its
relatively short, considerably pale bill. I've never seen a Snowy Egret with
such bright legs before--has anybody else? Photos are posted at:
http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttsnowyegret
-Floyd
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort Worth
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 21 May 2002 9:25am
Dear All,
I've built a web page to allow visitors to listen to some samples of a
Solitary-type vireo from my yard in mid-May; I have previously seen
precisely one Cassin's Vireo and two or three Plumbeous Vs.; I've seen and
heard numerous BHVIs here in Texas (but never on the breeding
grounds). The plumage was consistent with a bright male CAVI, and possibly
(?) too dull for any male BHVI:- if you refer to Heindel's BIRDING article
on this complex (Dec 96) and look at the photos, my bird looked very like
that in Fig 10, except the throat/auricular contrast was more like that in
fig 12 (I wrote a full description).
The song was quite striking, being nothing like any BHVI that I've heard
before; I've played the full tape for three very experienced East
Texas-based birders:- they all felt it sounded nothing like any BHVI and
appeared similar to CAVI, yet none had enough experience with CAVI to make
a more definitive comment.
So, I would be most grateful if those on this list with good experience of
Cassin's and Plumbeous would listen to the clips and comment - either
privately or via ID-F - thank you:
Here is the web page with the .wav files:
http://www.martinreid.com/vireoa.html
Note that since the split, there have been numerous claims of CAVI in the
eastern half of the state. Some of these I feel sure are good records,
while others (esp. silent birds in the plumage overlap zone) perhaps are
not really identifiable. Currently there is no "documented" record (i.e.
specimen or RBC-reviewed submission) of CAVI in Texas from east of the
Trans-Pecos region (however there is a specimen form western Louisiana).
There are at least two birds that were video'd in Corpus Christi in the
past two years; I've just viewed/heard one such video and feel it is an
excellent candidate for CAVI. I wonder if audio recordings could be viewed
as diagnostic for this group, if they accompany complimentary notes that
rule out at least one contending form (e.g. PLVI in this case)?
Cheers,
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: mottled vs. mallard
From: David Sibley <dsibley(AT)SHORE.NET>
Date: 22 May 2002 1:47pm
After my earlier posting about why the Texas mystery duck was a Mexican x
Northern Mallard intergrade, Ian Paulsen asked why it wasn't a Mallard X
Mottled Duck hybrid, and the fact is that I don't know. A Mexican intergrade
is certainly a lot more likely in Lubbock than a Mallard X Mottled hybrid,
but that doesn't answer the question.
The fairly strong buffy color on the throat of the specimen might suggest
Mottled, although I think it's a very weak suggestion. Someone with the
opportunity to study some of these birds could help by looking for buffy
throats on Mexican intergrades, and by looking at Mallard X Mottled hybrids
to describe some of the variation there. Mallard X Mottled Ducks are
apparently becoming more frequent in Texas and Florida as Northern mallards
expand their range south in the suburbs. As a further complication, I
believe that John Arvin suspected a mixed Mexican Mallard X Mottled Duck
pair in the lower Rio Grande Valley a few years ago.
Good luck
David Sibley
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort
Worth
From: David Sibley <dsibley(AT)SHORE.NET>
Date: 22 May 2002 5:17pm
The songs of these vireos were discussed several years ago and I've copied
some of the following out of the ID-Frontiers archives. There is a published
paper about songs of these species: James, Ross D. 1981. "Factors affecting
variation in the primary song of North American Solitary Vireos", Canadian
Journal of Zoology 59:2001-2009. The key from our point of view being that
variation in song of Blue-headed and Cassin's is clinal, from mainly clear
phrases in the east to mainly burry phrases in the west. There must be a
fairly sharp change where the two species meet but I am unaware of any data
on this.
In my own experience eastern Blue-headeds very occasionally use burry
phrases (and there are records of birds singing almost exclusively burry
Yellow-throated-like phrases - see below), while Blue-headeds in Alberta use
mainly burry phrases.
Another relevant paper is: James, Ross D. 1984. Structure, frequency of
usage, and apparent learning in the primary song of Yellow-throated Vireo,
with comparative notes on Solitary Vireos. Can. J. Zool. 62:468-472.
He recorded a typical-looking Yellow-throated Vireo in late May 1971 in
Ontario singing pure-toned song phrases like Blue-headedVireo. Details of
pattern of some of the phrases matched Blue-headed and were unlike
Yellow-throated. Some other details of singing behavior matched Blue-headed
Vireo as well, while the repertoire of phrases used was small, more like
Yellow-throated. There is no doubt that a passing birder would have
identified the sound as a Blue-headed Vireo.
James goes on to cite Brewster (1903. Auk 20:437-438) and Bent (1950) for
SEVEN more instances of song reversal or mixed song between these two
species, and Kuerzi (1932. Proc. Linn. Soc. N.Y. 44:43-44) for a report of
Blue-headed Vireo singing White-eyed Vireo song! The posting of this info on
ID Frontiers five years ago elicited several reports of
Blue-headed/Yellow-throated confusion from around the northeast.
So it seems that the song changes clinally across Canada, and in addition
birds occasionally (or relatively frequently?) learn the wrong song. One
might be able to say that the Fort Worth individual is likely to be at least
from the western portion of Blue-headed's range, but that is sort of implied
anyway, assuming that the western breeders also migrate and winter farther
west. The bottom line is that song is not going to confirm the species.
Keep looking
David Sibley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Reid" <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 12:27 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort Worth
> Dear All,
> I've built a web page to allow visitors to listen to some samples of a
> Solitary-type vireo from my yard in mid-May; I have previously seen
> precisely one Cassin's Vireo and two or three Plumbeous Vs.; I've seen and
> heard numerous BHVIs here in Texas (but never on the breeding
> grounds). The plumage was consistent with a bright male CAVI, and
possibly
> (?) too dull for any male BHVI:- if you refer to Heindel's BIRDING article
> on this complex (Dec 96) and look at the photos, my bird looked very like
> that in Fig 10, except the throat/auricular contrast was more like that in
> fig 12 (I wrote a full description).
> The song was quite striking, being nothing like any BHVI that I've heard
> before; I've played the full tape for three very experienced East
> Texas-based birders:- they all felt it sounded nothing like any BHVI and
> appeared similar to CAVI, yet none had enough experience with CAVI to make
> a more definitive comment.
> So, I would be most grateful if those on this list with good experience of
> Cassin's and Plumbeous would listen to the clips and comment - either
> privately or via ID-F - thank you:
> Here is the web page with the .wav files:
> http://www.martinreid.com/vireoa.html
> Note that since the split, there have been numerous claims of CAVI in the
> eastern half of the state. Some of these I feel sure are good records,
> while others (esp. silent birds in the plumage overlap zone) perhaps are
> not really identifiable. Currently there is no "documented" record (i.e.
> specimen or RBC-reviewed submission) of CAVI in Texas from east of the
> Trans-Pecos region (however there is a specimen form western Louisiana).
> There are at least two birds that were video'd in Corpus Christi in the
> past two years; I've just viewed/heard one such video and feel it is an
> excellent candidate for CAVI. I wonder if audio recordings could be
viewed
> as diagnostic for this group, if they accompany complimentary notes that
> rule out at least one contending form (e.g. PLVI in this case)?
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
>
> Martin Reid
> Fort Worth, Texas
> upupa(AT)airmail.net
> http://www.martinreid.com
>
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort
Worth
From: Barb Beck <barb(AT)BIRDNUT.OBTUSE.COM>
Date: 22 May 2002 10:36pm
Hi,
In Alberta we tend to get the "Cassin's" sounding birds in the southwest
corner of the province and they are supposed to be Cassins. Those in the
Boreal Forest (note NOT the Taiga) sing a different less burry song. We do
however get some "Cassin" sounding birds there. Waterton NP has mainly
"Cassin's" songs, Last year in Jasper NP I noted mostly "Blue-headed" -
probably about a dozen, some intermediate and one "Cassins" I do not
understand what the paper is saying with mainly burry sounding songs in the
west. Many are of similar quality to that of a Red-eyed Vireo. On the
Freeman Lake BBS route in the Swan Hills things were evenly split - one
"Blue-Headed" one intermediate and one "Cassins" Those were totally by
sound because it was one of my BBS routes and there is no time to track down
the bird nor time to record them.
Did the paper look at those through out the Boreal Forest or only in
Southern Alberta and southern parts of the other provinces?
Barb Beck
Edmonton
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu]On Behalf Of David Sibley
Sent: May 22, 2002 4:24 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort Worth
The songs of these vireos were discussed several years ago and I've copied
some of the following out of the ID-Frontiers archives. There is a published
paper about songs of these species: James, Ross D. 1981. "Factors affecting
variation in the primary song of North American Solitary Vireos", Canadian
Journal of Zoology 59:2001-2009. The key from our point of view being that
variation in song of Blue-headed and Cassin's is clinal, from mainly clear
phrases in the east to mainly burry phrases in the west. There must be a
fairly sharp change where the two species meet but I am unaware of any data
on this.
In my own experience eastern Blue-headeds very occasionally use burry
phrases (and there are records of birds singing almost exclusively burry
Yellow-throated-like phrases - see below), while Blue-headeds in Alberta use
mainly burry phrases.
Another relevant paper is: James, Ross D. 1984. Structure, frequency of
usage, and apparent learning in the primary song of Yellow-throated Vireo,
with comparative notes on Solitary Vireos. Can. J. Zool. 62:468-472.
He recorded a typical-looking Yellow-throated Vireo in late May 1971 in
Ontario singing pure-toned song phrases like Blue-headedVireo. Details of
pattern of some of the phrases matched Blue-headed and were unlike
Yellow-throated. Some other details of singing behavior matched Blue-headed
Vireo as well, while the repertoire of phrases used was small, more like
Yellow-throated. There is no doubt that a passing birder would have
identified the sound as a Blue-headed Vireo.
James goes on to cite Brewster (1903. Auk 20:437-438) and Bent (1950) for
SEVEN more instances of song reversal or mixed song between these two
species, and Kuerzi (1932. Proc. Linn. Soc. N.Y. 44:43-44) for a report of
Blue-headed Vireo singing White-eyed Vireo song! The posting of this info on
ID Frontiers five years ago elicited several reports of
Blue-headed/Yellow-throated confusion from around the northeast.
So it seems that the song changes clinally across Canada, and in addition
birds occasionally (or relatively frequently?) learn the wrong song. One
might be able to say that the Fort Worth individual is likely to be at least
from the western portion of Blue-headed's range, but that is sort of implied
anyway, assuming that the western breeders also migrate and winter farther
west. The bottom line is that song is not going to confirm the species.
Keep looking
David Sibley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Reid" <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 12:27 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort Worth
> Dear All,
> I've built a web page to allow visitors to listen to some samples of a
> Solitary-type vireo from my yard in mid-May; I have previously seen
> precisely one Cassin's Vireo and two or three Plumbeous Vs.; I've seen and
> heard numerous BHVIs here in Texas (but never on the breeding
> grounds). The plumage was consistent with a bright male CAVI, and
possibly
> (?) too dull for any male BHVI:- if you refer to Heindel's BIRDING article
> on this complex (Dec 96) and look at the photos, my bird looked very like
> that in Fig 10, except the throat/auricular contrast was more like that in
> fig 12 (I wrote a full description).
> The song was quite striking, being nothing like any BHVI that I've heard
> before; I've played the full tape for three very experienced East
> Texas-based birders:- they all felt it sounded nothing like any BHVI and
> appeared similar to CAVI, yet none had enough experience with CAVI to make
> a more definitive comment.
> So, I would be most grateful if those on this list with good experience of
> Cassin's and Plumbeous would listen to the clips and comment - either
> privately or via ID-F - thank you:
> Here is the web page with the .wav files:
> http://www.martinreid.com/vireoa.html
> Note that since the split, there have been numerous claims of CAVI in the
> eastern half of the state. Some of these I feel sure are good records,
> while others (esp. silent birds in the plumage overlap zone) perhaps are
> not really identifiable. Currently there is no "documented" record (i.e.
> specimen or RBC-reviewed submission) of CAVI in Texas from east of the
> Trans-Pecos region (however there is a specimen form western Louisiana).
> There are at least two birds that were video'd in Corpus Christi in the
> past two years; I've just viewed/heard one such video and feel it is an
> excellent candidate for CAVI. I wonder if audio recordings could be
viewed
> as diagnostic for this group, if they accompany complimentary notes that
> rule out at least one contending form (e.g. PLVI in this case)?
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
>
> Martin Reid
> Fort Worth, Texas
> upupa(AT)airmail.net
> http://www.martinreid.com
>
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Elegant Tern in Florida
From: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 23 May 2002 4:16pm
HI ALL:
HAS anyone heard of an elegant x sandwich tern hybrid before??
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:17:58 -0500
From: Jim Stevenson <natrix(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
To: TEXBIRDS(AT)LISTSERV.UH.EDU
Subject: [TEXBIRDS] interesting tern of events
There was quite a lot of speculation as to where the famed Elegant Terns might
have gone last year. Well, an Elegant Tern has been found this morning
incubating on an island in the Tampa, Florida area - probably mated with a
Sandwich. It will be interesting to see if this species becomes, with time, a
gulf resident. We might continue to keep our eyes open.
Regardless, that's pretty amazing.
Jim
For answers to questions about this listserve, as well as current Texas
Birding Links, visit the Texbirds Reference Page at
http://www.moonmountaingroup.com/texbirds.
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Elegant and Sandwich tern hybrids
From: Bill Pranty <billpranty(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 23 May 2002 5:12pm
Hi ID-Frontiers-people,
I'm not even remotely an expert on the two species, but I know that Sandwich
Terns that have ended up in California have bred with Elegant Terns, so it
perhaps was inevitable that an Elegant Tern that ended up in Florida would
choose a Sandwich Tern for a mate.
The issues of Florida's Elegant Terns has been chronicled in "North American
Birds" and an article by Ed Kwater in "Florida Field Naturalist" since the
first individual was discovered in Oct 1999, so I won't repeat existing
publications.
But, I will point ID subscribers to two websites with photos of Florida's
Elegant Terns:
This link to Lyn Atherton's website contains photos of all Elegant Terns
(and Elegant-like terns) photographed in Florida between Oct 1999 and Oct
2001:
http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/FirstElegant.htm
see especially:
http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/Elegant_Tern3.htm
This link to Kurt Radamaker's website contains videograbs of today's Elegant
Tern. I apologize for the rather poor resolution, but we were limited to 5
minutes within the ternery (to avoid disturbing Laughing Gulls nesting
around us), and could approach no closer than 50-60 feet. Let's here it for
digital camcorders with high zoom capabilities!:
http://www.javaswift.com/floridabirds/elegant%20nesting.html
Best regards,
Bill
Bill Pranty
Audubon of Florida
410 Ware Boulevard, Suite 702
Tampa, Florida 33619
813-623-6826
billpranty(AT)hotmail.com
Florida IBA Program: http://www.audubon.org/bird/iba/florida
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Elegant Tern in Florida
From: Kimball Garrett <kgarrett(AT)NHM.ORG>
Date: 23 May 2002 5:17pm
At 04:16 PM 5/23/02 -0700, ian paulsen wrote:
>HI ALL:
> Has anyone heard of an elegant x sandwich tern hybrid before??
See:
Collins, C. T. 1997. Hybridization of a Sandwich and Elegant
Tern in California. Western Birds 28:169-173.
-- At Bolsa Chica Reserve, in Orange County s. of Los Angeles
in 1995. The Sandwich Tern parent was presumed to be the female;
the egg hatched, but the development of the chick could not be
monitored.
Subsequently, there have been sightings of at least two different
apparent Elegant X Sandwich tern hybrids in California (Pajaro
River Mouth in Monterey Bay in July 1995, and at the Los Angeles
Harbor tern colony in summer 2000. The 1995 Pajaro R. sighting
suggests that a hybrid pairing had also occurred prior to the
1995 breeding season.
Such a hybrid combination is not entirely surprising where one
of the parental species is well out of range, as is the case of
Sandwich Tern in California or Elegant Tern in Florida (or
Europe). I guess when an individual of one species is sandwiched
among hordes of the other species, mate selection will not always
be elegant (yielding an interesting turn of events).
Kimball
*****************************
Kimball L. Garrett
Ornithology Collections Manager
Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
900 Exposition Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90007 USA
(213) 763-3368
(213) 746-2999 FAX
kgarrett(AT)nhm.org
*****************************
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort
Worth
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 23 May 2002 5:47pm
Dear All,
I thank David Sibley and Barb Beck for their contributions; these are the
only replies I've received from birders with good experience of singing
CAVI, and I especially value Barb's local experience in the apparent
contact zone.
It seems that even if voice changes in the Solitary complex are clinal,
there might be benchmark points along that cline that could be used to
place any particular individual. Barb Beck is using her personal experience
to categorize songs into CAVI, intermediate, and BHVI (presumably of the
western group, and thus with some regular burriness?); if we add to this
the "classic" non-burry eastern BHVI and typical PLVI, we end up with five
types.
Presuming the situation to indeed be clinal, there will be some individuals
that fall between these "points on a scale" - but at least such a scale
would allow the voice of an individual bird to be placed into the scale
fairly accurately.
So, can we define such a scale? - I find myself asking "where would the
audio clips of the Fort Worth bird place it in such a scale?"
Presumably, any individual bird sounding just like CAVi, could actually be
a BHVI from the breeding contact zone that has learned the wrong song - but
what about vice versa?; all three forms winter in Oaxaca, so a CAVI could
learn even the eastern BHVI song from there - or does this "wrong song"
event only happen to juvs in the natal area?
Thus we seem to have BHVIs that can be non-burry or somewhat burry, plus
any individual suspected vagrant might instead be a "cross-singer" of the
commoner form.... it seems to me that for the purposes of ID-ing potential
vagrants, the voice is at best a supporting feature - something that does
not rule out the common form, no matter how "wrong" it sounds; is this a
reasonable conclusion?.
As to plumage, I'd like to suggest an exercise:- dig out Matt Heindel's
article on the "Solitary" vireos ( BIRDING Dec '96), open it at pages
468/469, then fold the front portion back on itself so that you are looking
at the bird in fig 12 on page 469 and the bird on the front cover:- which
one has the cleanest demarcation of the throat/auricular? Given that this
is held as just about the strongest out of a bunch of fairly subtle and
overlapping features, I feel that only the most extreme examples (e.g. Figs
1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and probably 11) could be identified AS VAGRANTS with any
degree of confidence; all the others would surely be "most like xxxx, but
yyyy cannot be ruled out". Keep in mind that I am talking here not of any
individual birder's ability to be right on this, but about how a RBC could
assess a record submission.
The point here is that from a vagrant standpoint, LOTS of these vireos will
not be firmly identifiable - true?
Regards,
Martin
FYI some images to consider:
http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/photos/bhvi1.html - I'd love to know how this
bird is FIRMLY identifiable as a vagrant BHVI, as it seems to fall into (or
very close to) the overlap zone, to my inexperienced eye. There are no
biometric differences to use (correct?), so are there any in-the-hand
micro-features that are absolutely definitive? I am merely trying to learn
from this example.
http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/photos/bhvi2.html
http://rip.physics.unk.edu/NOU/Photographs/CassinVireo.html
http://www.islandnet.com/~rpbo/photos/photo14.html
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Elegant Tern in Florida
From: Laurent Raty <l_raty(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 23 May 2002 6:47pm
Hi Ian and all,
Elegant x Sandwich pairing has also been described from France: one to two
Elegant Terns were present in a Sandwich Tern colony on Banc d'Arguin, from
1974 to at least 1985 and bred "regularly":
P.J. Dubois et le CHN (1974). La Sterne élégante Sterna elegans en France.
Ornithos 1(1): 74-79.
Pictures, one showing a bird with hybrid chicks, are on:
http://www.birding.yucom.be/AERC/observation_France.htm
(lower image on upper right JPEG, clickable).
What happened on Banc d'Arguin during the following years is, IMO, clouded
by the possible occurrence of hybrids (BTW, comments on the ID of the other
birds shown on this page would be more than welcome).
Although "suspected" or "apparent" hybrids have been reported on a number of
occasions, there is, to my knowledge, no description of a definite hybrid
older than the chicks that can be seen on the French picture. Most of what
has been said and written about the possible appearance of Elegant x
Sandwich hybrids is inferred from what is known of the appearance of Lesser
Crested x Sandwich hybrids.
The Pajaro River Mouth apparent hybrid had a yellow-tipped black bill like a
Sandwich, but with "red along the basal two-thirds of the tomia"
( http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/96report/96report.html ), which contrasts
with the bill of the French hybrid chicks (completely bright orange). How
did the LA bird look?
Regards,
Laurent
Laurent Raty
l_raty(AT)hotmail.com
Brussels, Belgium
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Lesser-crested Terns in Italy (PHOTO)
From: Menotti Passarella <aster_men(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 23 May 2002 10:24pm
Hi all.
A pair of Lesser-crested Terns (Sterna bengalensis)
was photographed on 17 May 2002 at the Cervia
salt-pans, Po-Delta, NE Italy, by Giovanni Arveda:
http://www.geocities.com/badile11/SternadiRuppel.jpg
They was found near a colony of more than 3.000 pairs
of Mediterranean Gulls (Larus melanocephalus):
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z31712DE
Regards
Menotti Passarella
Italy
menotti.passarella(AT)libero.it
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort
Worth
From: Tony Leukering <GreatGrayO(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 24 May 2002 7:13am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi all:
I have stayed out of this one, as I have little recent experience with CAVI
song. However, now that Martin has introduced plumage features, I am much
firmer footing. Here in Colorado, we get all three species, with BHVI being
a vagrant (and it's on the review list). As I've posted to this format a
couple times, CAVI is much more common than even the Colorado-breeding PLVI
in fall out on the plains.
Last fall, I had my shorts blown off by a bird that I captured at Barr Lake
that was much more BHVI-like than all other CAVIs that I've seen and/or
captured. The bird was subsequently seen in the field by others, most of
whom identified it as a BHVI. In the hand, the throat contrast - or rather,
the not-quite-sharp demarcation - was one of the clues that we used to
identify it as a CAVI. The R6 fringe was also typical of CAVI (being narrow
and not quite bright white) and atypical of BHVI (which USUALLY shows wide,
bright white fringes).
Identification-useful plumage features on these taxa are often subtle and can
be very difficult to determine in the field and more and more I encourage
myself and others to leave atypical individuals unidentified unless seen
incredibly well. Chris Wood and I are in the beginning stages of writing a
paper for NAB (though Ned doesn't know that, yet) on various aspects of SOVIs
in Colorado, including distribution and vagrancy with some notes on ID.
For pix of the individual discussed above, go to the <A
HREF="http://www.cfo-link.org/">Colorado Field
Ornithologists</A>' web site (www.cfo-link.org), enter the site, click on
'Photo
Quiz' in the left frame and then on 'Link to the November/December 2001 Quiz
Solutions'.
Enjoy all,
Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort
Worth
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 24 May 2002 12:53pm
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Based on last winter's experience in Santa Barbara with a Solitary Vireo
that most people were happy was a Blue-headed (it was even banded as such)on
plumage but that sang like a Cassin's, I would agree that it may only be
possible to id extreme individuals.
One point I'm not 100% clear on is whether Cassin's in winter can be
brighter than those seen in spring/summer/fall. Matt's paper indicated that
Cassin's could be similar to Plumbeous when in worn plumage in the spring. I
am wondering if Cassin's in winter are typically brighter and can be
confused more with BHVI, especially if birders aren't really familiar with
BHVI. Certainly in Santa Barbara, we apparently had 2 other birds that
observers thought were similar to the "BHVI" bird. It seems unlikely all 3
were BLVI especially as one sung like a Cassin's. I haven't looked up the
moult info in Pyle, but if Cassin's has a post-fall migration full moult,
one would expect birds in early-mid-winter to be brighter.
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Reid [mailto:upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 5:50 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort Worth
Dear All,
I thank David Sibley and Barb Beck for their contributions; these are the
only replies I've received from birders with good experience of singing
CAVI, and I especially value Barb's local experience in the apparent
contact zone.
It seems that even if voice changes in the Solitary complex are clinal,
there might be benchmark points along that cline that could be used to
place any particular individual. Barb Beck is using her personal experience
to categorize songs into CAVI, intermediate, and BHVI (presumably of the
western group, and thus with some regular burriness?); if we add to this
the "classic" non-burry eastern BHVI and typical PLVI, we end up with five
types.
Presuming the situation to indeed be clinal, there will be some individuals
that fall between these "points on a scale" - but at least such a scale
would allow the voice of an individual bird to be placed into the scale
fairly accurately.
So, can we define such a scale? - I find myself asking "where would the
audio clips of the Fort Worth bird place it in such a scale?"
Presumably, any individual bird sounding just like CAVi, could actually be
a BHVI from the breeding contact zone that has learned the wrong song - but
what about vice versa?; all three forms winter in Oaxaca, so a CAVI could
learn even the eastern BHVI song from there - or does this "wrong song"
event only happen to juvs in the natal area?
Thus we seem to have BHVIs that can be non-burry or somewhat burry, plus
any individual suspected vagrant might instead be a "cross-singer" of the
commoner form.... it seems to me that for the purposes of ID-ing potential
vagrants, the voice is at best a supporting feature - something that does
not rule out the common form, no matter how "wrong" it sounds; is this a
reasonable conclusion?.
As to plumage, I'd like to suggest an exercise:- dig out Matt Heindel's
article on the "Solitary" vireos ( BIRDING Dec '96), open it at pages
468/469, then fold the front portion back on itself so that you are looking
at the bird in fig 12 on page 469 and the bird on the front cover:- which
one has the cleanest demarcation of the throat/auricular? Given that this
is held as just about the strongest out of a bunch of fairly subtle and
overlapping features, I feel that only the most extreme examples (e.g. Figs
1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and probably 11) could be identified AS VAGRANTS with any
degree of confidence; all the others would surely be "most like xxxx, but
yyyy cannot be ruled out". Keep in mind that I am talking here not of any
individual birder's ability to be right on this, but about how a RBC could
assess a record submission.
The point here is that from a vagrant standpoint, LOTS of these vireos will
not be firmly identifiable - true?
Regards,
Martin
FYI some images to consider:
http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/photos/bhvi1.html - I'd love to know how this
bird is FIRMLY identifiable as a vagrant BHVI, as it seems to fall into (or
very close to) the overlap zone, to my inexperienced eye. There are no
biometric differences to use (correct?), so are there any in-the-hand
micro-features that are absolutely definitive? I am merely trying to learn
from this example.
http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/photos/bhvi2.html
http://rip.physics.unk.edu/NOU/Photographs/CassinVireo.html
http://www.islandnet.com/~rpbo/photos/photo14.html
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort
Worth
From: Don Roberson <creagrus(AT)MONTEREYBAY.COM>
Date: 24 May 2002 5:18pm
The topic of the 'Solitary Vireo' complex variation reminds me of a potential
field character that I noted some time ago, and that has worked reasonably
well for me the last few years, but that I don't see mentioned much. It is the
contrast between the loral stripe and the head. I've just posted some photos
illustrating the point at
http://montereybay.com/creagrus/sovi-id-comm.html
plus added some commentary on the overall topic from the perspective of
looking at vireos in s. Mexico recently, and with vagrant Blue-headeds in
California. Has anyone else looked at this potential field character? Am I
right that most Blue-headeds are "typical" but that there is a western
population (how large?) that shows more variation? And just what is the range
of variation in Cassin's? The vast majority of Calif. migrants I see look (and
sound) straight-forward.
Don Roberson
Pacific Grove CA
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort
Worth
From: Barb Beck <barb(AT)BIRDNUT.OBTUSE.COM>
Date: 24 May 2002 5:57pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
RE: [BIRDWG01] RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort WorthThis is a case
like our "Western Flycatchers" where I am not comfortable in many cases
identifying to the species level. I note which species it sounds like and
if it is clearly one or the other visually great but I see a lot that are
not. I am currently grumbling at the people running our bird atlas that
they are requiring atlassers to put down the specific species in these
complexes. To me that only leads to identification by a range map.
Anyway if anybody wants to hear mps clips of a couple of recordings I have
from here let me know. They are about 250K each
Barb Beck
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu]On Behalf Of Lethaby, Nick
Sent: May 24, 2002 1:53 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort Worth
Based on last winter's experience in Santa Barbara with a Solitary Vireo
that most people were happy was a Blue-headed (it was even banded as such)on
plumage but that sang like a Cassin's, I would agree that it may only be
possible to id extreme individuals.
One point I'm not 100% clear on is whether Cassin's in winter can be
brighter than those seen in spring/summer/fall. Matt's paper indicated that
Cassin's could be similar to Plumbeous when in worn plumage in the spring. I
am wondering if Cassin's in winter are typically brighter and can be
confused more with BHVI, especially if birders aren't really familiar with
BHVI. Certainly in Santa Barbara, we apparently had 2 other birds that
observers thought were similar to the "BHVI" bird. It seems unlikely all 3
were BLVI especially as one sung like a Cassin's. I haven't looked up the
moult info in Pyle, but if Cassin's has a post-fall migration full moult,
one would expect birds in early-mid-winter to be brighter.
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Reid [mailto:upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 5:50 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] RFH: audio of poss. Cassin's Vireo - Fort Worth
Dear All,
I thank David Sibley and Barb Beck for their contributions; these are the
only replies I've received from birders with good experience of singing
CAVI, and I especially value Barb's local experience in the apparent
contact zone.
It seems that even if voice changes in the Solitary complex are clinal,
there might be benchmark points along that cline that could be used to
place any particular individual. Barb Beck is using her personal experience
to categorize songs into CAVI, intermediate, and BHVI (presumably of the
western group, and thus with some regular burriness?); if we add to this
the "classic" non-burry eastern BHVI and typical PLVI, we end up with five
types.
Presuming the situation to indeed be clinal, there will be some individuals
that fall between these "points on a scale" - but at least such a scale
would allow the voice of an individual bird to be placed into the scale
fairly accurately.
So, can we define such a scale? - I find myself asking "where would the
audio clips of the Fort Worth bird place it in such a scale?"
Presumably, any individual bird sounding just like CAVi, could actually be
a BHVI from the breeding contact zone that has learned the wrong song - but
what about vice versa?; all three forms winter in Oaxaca, so a CAVI could
learn even the eastern BHVI song from there - or does this "wrong song"
event only happen to juvs in the natal area?
Thus we seem to have BHVIs that can be non-burry or somewhat burry, plus
any individual suspected vagrant might instead be a "cross-singer" of the
commoner form.... it seems to me that for the purposes of ID-ing potential
vagrants, the voice is at best a supporting feature - something that does
not rule out the common form, no matter how "wrong" it sounds; is this a
reasonable conclusion?.
As to plumage, I'd like to suggest an exercise:- dig out Matt Heindel's
article on the "Solitary" vireos ( BIRDING Dec '96), open it at pages
468/469, then fold the front portion back on itself so that you are looking
at the bird in fig 12 on page 469 and the bird on the front cover:- which
one has the cleanest demarcation of the throat/auricular? Given that this
is held as just about the strongest out of a bunch of fairly subtle and
overlapping features, I feel that only the most extreme examples (e.g. Figs
1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and probably 11) could be identified AS VAGRANTS with any
degree of confidence; all the others would surely be "most like xxxx, but
yyyy cannot be ruled out". Keep in mind that I am talking here not of any
individual birder's ability to be right on this, but about how a RBC could
assess a record submission.
The point here is that from a vagrant standpoint, LOTS of these vireos will
not be firmly identifiable - true?
Regards,
Martin
FYI some images to consider:
http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/photos/bhvi1.html - I'd love to know how this
bird is FIRMLY identifiable as a vagrant BHVI, as it seems to fall into (or
very close to) the overlap zone, to my inexperienced eye. There are no
biometric differences to use (correct?), so are there any in-the-hand
micro-features that are absolutely definitive? I am merely trying to learn
from this example.
http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/photos/bhvi2.html
http://rip.physics.unk.edu/NOU/Photographs/CassinVireo.html
http://www.islandnet.com/~rpbo/photos/photo14.html
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Fw: Little Grebe iris color
From: Ross Silcock <silcock(AT)ROSSSILCOCK.COM>
Date: 24 May 2002 8:48pm
Hi ID'ers:
I'm curious about iris color in Little Grebe (Tachybaptus ruficollis) and
Australasian Little Grebe (T. novaehollandiae). Aust Little Grebe has a pale
iris (Pizzey and Knight- FG to Birds of Australia; Heather and Robinson- FG
to Birds of New Zealand; Doughty- Birds of Solomons, Vanuatu, New
Caledonia), and European field guides (eg Mullarney et al Birds of
Europe-Princeton) as well as Doughty (op cit) show Little with a reddish
(dark)iris. However there are two photos I ran across on the web apparently
taken within the range of Little that show breeding-plumaged birds with pale
irises (as far as I can tell, the first was taken in Japan, the second in
Slovenia):
http://my.dreamwiz.com/saesori0/birds/jh04.jpg
http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/ahospers/bird/dodaars.jpg
Are these artifacts of light, or do some Little Grebes have pale irises?
Can iris color be used to separate these species, for example in New Guinea,
where they are apparently sympatric? (Or the Solomon Is, where Little
occurs rarely on Bougainville and Aust Little on Rennell).
Ross
Ross Silcock
Tabor, IA USA
silcock(AT)rosssilcock.com
New Zealand Land and Pelagic Tours
http://www.rosssilcock.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Fw: Little Grebe iris color
From: Alain Foss=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Angers France <alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: 24 May 2002 11:51pm
Le 25·5·02 5:48, Ross Silcock à silcock(AT)ROSSSILCOCK.COM a écrit :
> Are these artifacts of light, or do some Little Grebes have pale irises?
> Can iris color be used to separate these species, for example in New Guinea,
> where they are apparently sympatric? (Or the Solomon Is, where Little
> occurs rarely on Bougainville and Aust Little on Rennell).
Yes, Asiatic subspecies do have yellow eyes,
see also
http://www.angelfire.com/pe2/digiscoping/birds_pg16.htm
and
SWELM N. D. VAN, 2001.
The eye-colour of Eurasian Dabchick.
Alula, 7 (1) : 24-26.
Best regards.
•============================================•
Alain Fossé,LPO Anjou,Montreuil-Juigné,France
47° 31' 34" N, 0° 35' 43" W
<alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com> or
<alfosse(AT)wanadoo.fr>
My digiscoping
<http://membres.lycos.fr/digimages/>
My French List of the Birds of the World
<http://membres.lycos.fr/listoiseauxmonde/>
Web Site LPO Anjou<http://www.lpo-anjou.org/>
•============================================•
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Santa Barbara Solitary Vireo, etc.
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 25 May 2002 5:37am
Dear all,
Following Nick Lethaby's email, I find this fascinating. Given the
situation, I'd think that any SOVI in California that sang like a CAVI
would have to be quite a long way beyond the overlap zone for it to be IDed
a cross-singing BHVi..... was it?
With this record and the Farallon one I referred to in my previous post, I
am not questioning the ID - I am trying to learn how to ID these buggers,
and we now seem to have two captured birds that were unusual (one on voice,
one on plumage IMO) yet were ID-able as BHVi. This is comforting to know,
but it would sure help the rest of us to know how these IDs were made. Is
anyone who was involved with the ID of these two birds out there? can you
help us out with a bit more info? - thanks.
Also, since Tony was brave enough to offer his experience and web
statements to us on ID-F concerning the bird at:
http://www.cfo-link.org/leadpage.html (Photo quiz; Nov/Dec '01 Solutions),
I'd like to ask: are the various ID comments made at this web page
accurate? Obviously the creators of the page have good experience to base
it on - but we all benefit from even more experience, and I'm sure that if
someone out there is reading it and muttering "that's not right
because....", that the authors would be the first to want to know why (back
me up or shoot me down, Tony!) It would be a shame to miss this
opportunity to pool our knowledge on this issue (isn't that what ID-F was
created for?). If you have solid experience to back-up or refute any of
the statements made at the Colorado web page, PLEASE tell us - thank you.
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: An Oriole from Wiscosnsin
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 25 May 2002 6:07am
Orchard Orioles are a regular but uncommon breeder in southern Wisconsin;
this May we have seen nearly unprecedented numbers of apparent southern and
southwestern migrational overshoots including this species, Summer Tanagers
and others. Many digitals and video captures are showing up of these birds
at feeders. The bird of interest is a second year male with what appears to
us to be a black bib that is unusually extensive for an Orchard. Has anyone
seen SY male Orchards with this pattern or should we start to consider a
young male Hooded?
See the shots at http://community.webshots.com/user/idzikoj
John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Barb Beck's audio Clips on my web page
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 25 May 2002 10:16am
Dear All,
Barb and Jim Beck kindly agreed to allow me to host two clips of their
vireo recordings - one BHVI and one CAVI, from Alberta:
http://www.martinreid.com/vireoa.html
- how does the Fort Worth bird compare to these clips?
Regards,
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Barb Beck's audio Clips on my web page
From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan(AT)CCSF.ORG>
Date: 25 May 2002 1:41pm
On Sat, 25 May 2002 12:18:46 -0500, Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
wrote:
>Dear All,
>Barb and Jim Beck kindly agreed to allow me to host two clips of their
>vireo recordings - one BHVI and one CAVI, from Alberta:
>http://www.martinreid.com/vireoa.html
For comparison, I have video with song made by Maya Decker of a
Blue-headed Vireo in California at:
http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~jmorlan/bhvi.htm
Descriptive notes are included. This record was accepted.
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044: mailto:jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
Fall Birding Classes start Sept 4: http://fog.ccsf.org/~jmorlan/
California Bird Records Committee: http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Fw: Little Grebe iris color
From: Peter Adriaens <peter.adriaens(AT)dutchbirding.nl>
Date: 25 May 2002 5:04pm
Hello Ross,
Eastern races of Little Grebe, such as T. r. capensis, have yellow irises
in breeding plumage. European birds (which are of the nominate race,
ruficollis) are normally dark-eyed, the iris being reddish brown in
breeding plumage. The amount of white in the secondaries also differs,
being more extensive in capensis.The photographs on the websites that you refer
to, both show eastern
Little Grebes, I think. The first one is part of a Korean website (not
Japanese), while the second is somewhat misleading: it is part of a trip
report on Slovenia, which is illustrated with several photographs by
various photographers, from different years, and, I think, different
places - not necessarily Slovenia. For what it is worth, the name of the
photographer sounds Japanese.
Best regards,
Peter Adriaens
Belgium
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