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ID-FRONTIERS for June 9-15, 2002
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Little Blue Heron with plumes | Lethaby, Nick | Sun, 9 Jun 2002 | 8:18pm |
| FW: [OB] FW: [UKBN] St. Paul Island, USA Lark | Alain Foss=?ISO-8859 | Mon, 10 Jun 2002 | 1:27am |
| FW: St Paul's Lark | Alain Foss=?ISO-8859 | Mon, 10 Jun 2002 | 8:09am |
| FW: St Paul's Lark | Alain Foss=?ISO-8859 | Mon, 10 Jun 2002 | 9:30am |
| FW: [OB] Re: St Paul's Lark /delhibird | Alain Foss=?ISO-8859 | Mon, 10 Jun 2002 | 9:30am |
| LB Heron and plumes | Lethaby, Nick | Mon, 10 Jun 2002 | 4:50pm |
| Goose Identification | Angus Wilson | Mon, 10 Jun 2002 | 8:12pm |
| Re: Goose Identification | Jeffrey A. Holbrook | Mon, 10 Jun 2002 | 8:27pm |
| FW: St Paul's Lark | Alain Foss=?ISO-8859 | Mon, 10 Jun 2002 | 10:16pm |
| Re: Gull with yellow legs in the Netherlands | Pierre-Andre Crochet | Tue, 11 Jun 2002 | 4:45am |
| Fw: Elegant Tern in the Netherlands | Martin Reid | Tue, 11 Jun 2002 | 4:50am |
| FW: [OB] Re: St Paul's Lark /delhibird | Alain Foss=?ISO-8859 | Tue, 11 Jun 2002 | 6:22am |
| Who is perched there ? | Michel Bertrand | Tue, 11 Jun 2002 | 9:03am |
| FW: [OB] Japanese Lark | Alain Foss=?ISO-8859 | Tue, 11 Jun 2002 | 11:23am |
| Re: Goose Identification | Beck, Michael | Tue, 11 Jun 2002 | 11:32am |
| Re: Fw: Elegant Tern in the Netherlands | Lethaby, Nick | Tue, 11 Jun 2002 | 11:55am |
| Re: FW: [OB] Japanese Lark | Joseph Morlan | Tue, 11 Jun 2002 | 1:13pm |
| Re: St Paul Island Lark (fwd) | ian paulsen | Tue, 11 Jun 2002 | 1:59pm |
| Re: FW: [OB] Re: St Paul's Lark /delhibird | Macklin Smith | Tue, 11 Jun 2002 | 2:03pm |
| FW: [OB] Re: St Paul's Lark /delhibird | Alain Foss=?ISO-8859 | Tue, 11 Jun 2002 | 2:14pm |
| Re: Fw: Elegant Tern in the Netherlands | Laurent Raty | Tue, 11 Jun 2002 | 3:43pm |
| Re: LB Heron and plumes | Steven Mlodinow | Tue, 11 Jun 2002 | 6:38pm |
| Re: An Oriole from Wiscosnsin | John Idzikowski | Tue, 11 Jun 2002 | 9:16pm |
| Re: Elegant Tern in the Netherlands | Martin Reid | Wed, 12 Jun 2002 | 4:40am |
| Ages of Elegant Terns in Florida | Bill Pranty | Wed, 12 Jun 2002 | 5:35am |
| Dark-morph Little Egret | Floyd Hayes | Wed, 12 Jun 2002 | 7:22am |
| Re: Fw: Elegant Tern in the Netherlands | Martin Reid | Wed, 12 Jun 2002 | 8:08am |
| FW: LB Heron and plumes | Lethaby, Nick | Wed, 12 Jun 2002 | 9:43am |
| Re: LB Heron and plumes | Kenn Kaufman | Wed, 12 Jun 2002 | 11:32am |
| Re: LB Heron and plumes | ian paulsen | Wed, 12 Jun 2002 | 1:58pm |
| Re: Dark-morph Little Egret | Floyd Hayes | Wed, 12 Jun 2002 | 3:37pm |
| Records of Dark Morph Broad-winged Hawk | JIm Barton | Wed, 12 Jun 2002 | 6:24pm |
| Re: Dark-morph Little Egret | Menotti Passarella | Thu, 13 Jun 2002 | 1:40am |
| Re: Records of Dark Morph Broad-winged Hawk | Tony Leukering | Thu, 13 Jun 2002 | 8:55am |
| Re: LB Heron and plumes | Peter Pyle | Thu, 13 Jun 2002 | 12:27pm |
| Status of Dark Morph Broad-winged Hawk (Wow!!) | JIm Barton | Thu, 13 Jun 2002 | 4:38pm |
| Pictures available of presumed Elegant Tern in
the Netherlands | Martin Reid | Fri, 14 Jun 2002 | 3:44am |
| Re: Pictures available of presumed Elegant Tern
in the Netherlands | Norman D.van Swelm | Fri, 14 Jun 2002 | 5:09am |
| Elegant Terns in Europe | Julian Hough | Fri, 14 Jun 2002 | 10:18am |
| Elegant X 'Cayenne' Tern? | Floyd Hayes | Fri, 14 Jun 2002 | 1:33pm |
| Re: Pictures available of presumed Elegant Tern
in the Netherlands | Laurent Raty | Fri, 14 Jun 2002 | 1:46pm |
| Re: Pictures available of presumed Elegant Tern
in the Netherlands | Julian Hough | Fri, 14 Jun 2002 | 5:15pm |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
|
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Little Blue Heron with plumes
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 9 Jun 2002 8:18pm
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----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
All:
How normal is it for a Little Blue Heron to show a head and back plume?
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Compton [mailto:davcompton(AT)earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 12:45 PM
To: Local Birders
Subject: RE: [sbcobirding] Little Blue Heron
A little more on this heron. It was working the main channel of those
visible from viewing areas just off Ash Ave., sometimes in sight of the more
northerly viewing area, sometimes not. The most reliable spot for seeing it
would've been from the path on the north side, along the mobile home park.
It is an adult with a very long plume down its back and one on its head, and
with an intensely blue bill and face. I saw dozens of this species on a
recent trip to Arkansas, but none were as stunning as this one.
Dave Compton
-----Original Message-----
From: Guy Tingos [mailto:guy.tingos(AT)cox.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 10:18 AM
To: Local Birders
Subject: [sbcobirding] Little Blue Heron
Dave Compton and Peter Gaede found a Little Blue Heron this morning at the
Carpinteria Salt Marsh. The bird was in the eastern section accessable from
Ash
Avenue. Guy
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----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: FW: [OB] FW: [UKBN] St. Paul Island, USA Lark
From: Alain Foss=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Angers France <alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: 10 Jun 2002 1:27am
> De : "Bill Harvey" <bill(AT)delhibird.org>
> Date : Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:24:45 +0530
> À : "Oriental Birding" <orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com>, Alain Fossé Angers
> France <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>
> Objet : Re: [OB] FW: [UKBN] St. Paul Island, USA Lark
>
> Although the pictures are a bit fuzzy on my sceen I would say this is
> definitely a Calandrella lark and almost certainly C. brachydactyla the
> Greater Short-toed Lark. I cannot be certain of the bill colour but it
> doesnt seem strikingly black-tipped yellow which it should in most Humes C.
> acutirostris. It is also too well marked above and on the breast for that
> species. regards Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alain Fossé Angers France" <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>
> To: "Oriental Birding" <orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 12:43 PM
> Subject: [OB] FW: [UKBN] St. Paul Island, USA Lark
>
>
>> De : ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)krl.org>
>> Répondre à : ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)krl.org>
>> Date : Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:04:44 -0700 (PDT)
>> À : Ukbirdnet <ukbirdnet(AT)dcs.bbk.ac.uk>
>> Objet : [UKBN] St. Paul Island, USA Lark
>>
>> HI:
>> Any comments on this Lark? Best guess so far an Asian form of Sky Lark.
>> sincerely
>>
>> Ian Paulsen
>> Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
>> ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
>> A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
>> "Rallidae all the way"
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 20:59:41 +0100
>> From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
>> To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
>> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] St. Paul Island pipit
>>
>> Jim,
>> Re: http://www.indiana.edu/~ornith/birds/pipit/pipit.html
>> I don't think you have a pipit at all - maybe some Asian equivalent of a
>> Short-toed Lark - except the size sounds way off. It certainly ain't no
>> Red-throated Pipit.
>> Dick
>>
>> +-----------------------------------------------+
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>> | unsubscribe |
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>> +-----------------------------------------------+
>
>
> Support conservation. Join OBC at www.orientalbirdclub.org
>
> To unsubscribe from this group:
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: FW: St Paul's Lark
From: Alain Foss=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Angers France <alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: 10 Jun 2002 8:09am
De : "Colin Bradshaw" <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com>
Répondre à : <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com>
Date : Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:13:27 +0100
À : <bill(AT)delhibird.org>
Cc : <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>, <orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com>
Objet : St Paul's Lark
Whatever this lark is [and SURELY it is a Skylark] it is neither Greater
Short-toed Lark or Hume's Lark as it has a whopping primary projection, the
bill shape is wrong, the head pattern is wrong and there is too much
scalloping on the back
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: FW: St Paul's Lark
From: Alain Foss=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Angers France <alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: 10 Jun 2002 9:30am
> De : "Bill Harvey" <bill(AT)delhibird.org>
> Date : Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:06:27 +0530
> À : <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com>
> Cc : <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>, <orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com>
> Objet : Re: St Paul's Lark
>
> Dear Colin and all,
> lets try and keep this to a gentle discussion and avoid e-mail shouting. As
> I explained my screen is showing rather fuzzy pictures and I cannot see a
> long primary projection at all (I've just looked again at all four pics).
> Nor do I see a Eurasian Skylark from my experience. But if you can see the
> prmaries it cannot be Calandrella and I am happy to stand aside til I can
> see a clear picture. Someone else e-mailed about Bimaculated. This species
> (common here in winter) is a quite different shape apart from anything else.
>
> I'd be interested in what you have to say about head patterning of
> Calendrellas. We have several species here in India (two very numerous near
> Delhi in winter) and anything you can add to field id would be much
> appreciated. Our problem is the great variation between individuals when you
> are looking at 2-300 at 50 feet range!
>
> regards Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Colin Bradshaw" <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com>
> To: <bill(AT)delhibird.org>
> Cc: <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>; <orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 2:43 PM
> Subject: St Paul's Lark
>
>
>> Whatever this lark is [and SURELY it is a Skylark] it is neither Greater
>> Short-toed Lark or Hume's Lark as it has a whopping primary projection,
> the
>> bill shape is wrong, the head pattern is wrong and there is too much
>> scalloping on the back
>>
>>
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: FW: [OB] Re: St Paul's Lark /delhibird
From: Alain Foss=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Angers France <alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: 10 Jun 2002 9:30am
> De : Desmond Allen <dw6d-alln(AT)asahi-net.or.jp>
> Date : Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:14:37 +0900
> À : orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com
> Objet : [OB] Re: St Paul's Lark /delhibird
>
> Bill,
> Is this bird not either Japanese Skylark Alauda japonica?
> the face pattern fits as does the longish tail as compared with
> Bimaculated. The rusty rump is OK as is the primary projection and
> the bill, dark crown streaks and whitish underparts where visible.
> I don't count myself an expert on larks though.
>
[...]
> cheers
> Des
>
>> lets try and keep this to a gentle discussion and avoid e-mail shouting. As
>> I explained my screen is showing rather fuzzy pictures and I cannot see a
>> long primary projection at all (I've just looked again at all four pics).
>> Nor do I see a Eurasian Skylark from my experience. But if you can see the
>> prmaries it cannot be Calandrella and I am happy to stand aside til I can
>> see a clear picture. Someone else e-mailed about Bimaculated. This species
>> (common here in winter) is a quite different shape apart from anything else.
>>
>> I'd be interested in what you have to say about head patterning of
>> Calendrellas. We have several species here in India (two very numerous near
>> Delhi in winter) and anything you can add to field id would be much
>> appreciated. Our problem is the great variation between individuals when you
>> are looking at 2-300 at 50 feet range!
>>
>> regards Bill
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Colin Bradshaw" <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com>
>> To: <bill(AT)delhibird.org>
>> Cc: <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>; <orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 2:43 PM
>> Subject: St Paul's Lark
>>
>>
>>> Whatever this lark is [and SURELY it is a Skylark] it is neither Greater
>>> Short-toed Lark or Hume's Lark as it has a whopping primary projection,
>> the
>>> bill shape is wrong, the head pattern is wrong and there is too much
>>> scalloping on the back
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Support conservation. Join OBC at www.orientalbirdclub.org
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group:
>> email orientalbirding-unsubscribe(AT)yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> --
> ____________________________
> Desmond Allen
> Tokyo,
> Japan
>
> Support conservation. Join OBC at www.orientalbirdclub.org
>
> To unsubscribe from this group:
> email orientalbirding-unsubscribe(AT)yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: LB Heron and plumes
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 10 Jun 2002 4:50pm
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
All:
Since I got a couple of e-mails about LB Herons never showing plumes, I
thought I'd post forward this e-mail. Dave Compton (the finder) has turned
up several photos showing this. It would be interesting to know if this is
age or geography related in anyway or whether the plumes are held for a very
short time. I can't remember ever seeing them, but then I've never seen the
'reddish lores' of some breeding Snowies.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Compton [mailto:davcompton(AT)earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 4:38 PM
To: Lethaby, Nick
Subject: LB Heron photos
Hi Nick
Below are some links to Little Blue Heron photos that show some of the
characteristics that the Carp bird shows. I found one apparent Reddish Egret
label a Little Blue, as well as one apparent TC Heron that was also so
labeled. The link for that is below, too. I guess I'll go down and try to
get a photo of my own. Most of the breeding birds I found didn't show the
long plume that extended down below the tail, but I did find a couple of
them. I think these are birds that are in breeding plumage and have
inordinately long scapulars plumes. Compare the third photo down with the
Natl painting. 'Hope you got to go down and see the bird.
Dave
http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/id/framlst/i2000id.html (click on the top
photo)
http://www.camacdonald.com/birding/DesJardin/LittleBlueHeron.htm
http://www.nenature.com/LittleBlueHeronPhoto.htm (shows the long trailing
plume like the Carp bird, but not other features, like the bright blue face)
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/NATSCI/NIMAGES/ORNITH/GALLERY/HERONLBR.JPG (has the
head plume)
http://www.johncangphoto.com/bd4054.htm (the color is off here, especially
on the bill, but the head plume is unmistakeable)
http://audubon.wku.edu/daviess/little_blue_heron.htm (here's what appears to
be a mislabeled TC Heron, just for fun)
http://naturestockshots.com/Tricolored%20Heron%20breeding%20plumage.htm
(head plume and what looks like the plume extending down below the tail)
http://naturestockshots.com/walking_1.htm (here's a photo more like what
Natl Geo shows; I wonder if our bird is really the same as this one, with
the feathers just falling differently)
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Goose Identification
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 10 Jun 2002 8:12pm
I have posted photos of an all white goose tentatively identified as a
leucistic Canada Goose (Branta canadensis). The only hiccup to this seemingly
straightforward ID are slight differences in the head and bill shape.
http://www.oceanwanderers.com/LeucCanGo.hmtl
Comments welcome!
Angus Wilson
New York City, USA
http://www.oceanwanderers.com/
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Goose Identification
From: "Jeffrey A. Holbrook" <mycteria(AT)STNY.RR.COM>
Date: 10 Jun 2002 8:27pm
Angus and others,
This bird has the head and body shape as well as the neck
feather pattern of the Toulouse Goose, a domestic variety that I raised
as kid until I went to college. I would doubt that there is any Canada
Goose genes is this individual at all. It is likely whiter as it is the
result of a cross between some other white domestic goose and a
Toulouse. These crosses are quite common. In fact I had an African
Goose/Toulouse Goose cross that looked a lot like this bird except that
it had a large bulb at the top of the beak. That is my opinion.
Anybody else?
Angus Wrote:
<I have posted photos of an all white goose tentatively identified as a
leucistic Canada Goose <(Branta canadensis). The only hiccup to this
seemingly straightforward ID are slight differences <in the head and
bill shape.
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: FW: St Paul's Lark
From: Alain Foss=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Angers France <alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: 10 Jun 2002 10:16pm
De : "Colin Bradshaw" <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com>
Répondre à : <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com>
Date : Mon, 10 Jun 2002 19:24:45 +0100
À : "Bill Harvey" <bill(AT)delhibird.org>
Cc : <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>, <orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com>
Objet : RE: St Paul's Lark
Bill,
Sorry, I didn't mean to be hectoring, I was just being enthusiastic. I agree
the images are fuzzy but I'm fairly sure of the following.
In the top left photo, the tertials end at the junction of the lower back
and the upper tail coverts whilst the primaries are the dark mark visible on
both sides of the tail. On the top right photo I'm also pretty sure that I
can see a significant primary projection so I do think it is present
In the top left photo, I feel the bill is relatively long and conical rather
than stubby and finch-like. I can also make this out, though somewhat less
clearly on the bottom left.
On the top right the almost Woodlark like facial pattern with a long
supercilium apparently joining the pale rear-border to the ear coverts is
something I've seen in Skylark and Lesser Short-toed Lark [in Spain] but not
in either Asian Short Toed or Greater. I think this is probably because
these birds tend to be paler and so there is less obvious contrast.
I can see, particularly in the bottom left picture, why the initial
impression is a Short-toed Lark, particularly with the breast patches and
the dark-centred median coverts but there is something about the posture and
proportions, especially in the top left, that shouts Alauda lark to me. The
only Calandrella I've seen that looks like this are the Iberian Lesser
Short-toed Larks. I'm not that experienced with Asian Short-toed but I did
see the Kazakhstan ones recently and they look structurally like Lesser
Short-toed but plumage wise seem much more like Greaters. To me the main
problem about this is the structure. I'm also fairly confident it isn't
Oriental Skylark. As for Japanese Skylark - well it's really just a race of
Skylark isn't it?
Cheers
Colin
ps If it's any use, I've some photos of Skylark from Kz and short-toed Lark
from turkey
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Harvey [mailto:bill(AT)delhibird.org]
Sent: 10 June 2002 11:36 AM
To: drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com
Cc: alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com; orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: St Paul's Lark
Dear Colin and all,
lets try and keep this to a gentle discussion and avoid e-mail shouting. As
I explained my screen is showing rather fuzzy pictures and I cannot see a
long primary projection at all (I've just looked again at all four pics).
Nor do I see a Eurasian Skylark from my experience. But if you can see the
prmaries it cannot be Calandrella and I am happy to stand aside til I can
see a clear picture. Someone else e-mailed about Bimaculated. This species
(common here in winter) is a quite different shape apart from anything else.
I'd be interested in what you have to say about head patterning of
Calendrellas. We have several species here in India (two very numerous near
Delhi in winter) and anything you can add to field id would be much
appreciated. Our problem is the great variation between individuals when you
are looking at 2-300 at 50 feet range!
regards Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Bradshaw" <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com>
To: <bill(AT)delhibird.org>
Cc: <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>; <orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 2:43 PM
Subject: St Paul's Lark
Whatever this lark is [and SURELY it is a Skylark] it is neither Greater
Short-toed Lark or Hume's Lark as it has a whopping primary projection,
the
bill shape is wrong, the head pattern is wrong and there is too much
scalloping on the back
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Gull with yellow legs in the Netherlands
From: Pierre-Andre Crochet <crochet(AT)CRIT.UNIV-MONTP2.FR>
Date: 11 Jun 2002 4:45am
Dear all,
I don't see much in the pictures of this bird to suggest that it is
anything else that an argentatus with yellow legs. May be I would have
expected a slightly paler iris in argentatus (at least in winter, but I'm
not sure whether this is the case now), and the presence of a dark band on
P5 is quite unusual for argentatus, but the bill and head shape, the rest
of the wing pattern, the flight shape, the leg colour, etc... are all good
for argentatus.
Although cachinnans and argentatus both breed in Poland, sometimes
apparently in mixed colonies, I still have not seen a convincing published
evidence that they hybridise. This matter is clearly to be further
investigated.
For me, the bird in question does not remind of cachinnans but fits with
yellow legged Herring gull. I don't think we need to suspect introgression
of cachinnans genes to explain its phenotype.
Any comments from the Finns?
Pierre-Andre
A 11:27 06/06/02 +0200, B. Aarts a écrit :
>Hi all,
>
>Pictures from another cachinnans-like argentatus Herring Gull with yellow
>legs that was seen in the Netherlands are at:
>
>http://members.tripod.com/vogelinfolimburg/pages/rs_zilvermeeuw1.htm
>http://members.tripod.com/vogelinfolimburg/pages/rs_zilvermeeuw2.htm
>http://members.tripod.com/vogelinfolimburg/pages/rs_zilvermeeuw3.htm
>
>This gull was (color)ringed in Poland, and has been wintering in the
>Netherlands for three years now. BTW: In Poland cachinnans, michahellis and
>argentatus meet & interbreed...
>
>Regards,
>
>Bram Aarts
>The Netherlands
>
>
Pierre-Andre Crochet
Laboratoire de Biogeographie et Ecologie des Vertebres
EPHE - c.c. 94
Universite Montpellier II
Place Eugene Bataillon
34095 Montpellier cedex
France
crochet(AT)univ-montp2.fr
tel: + 33 (0)4 67 14 32 90
mobile + 33 (0)6 07 32 60 75
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Fw: Elegant Tern in the Netherlands
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 11 Jun 2002 4:50am
Dear all, I've been asked to post this to ID-F:
Dear birders,
I would like to receive input from knowledgeable US birders, especially
west coast birders, who subscribe to this list regarding a very recent
sighting of a presumed Elegant Tern in the Netherlands. If accepted by the
Dutch Rarities Committee, this bird would constitute the first accepted
sight record of this species for the Netherlands.
However, before we submit a detailed report with photographs (still to be
developed), we would like to establish the age of this bird first.
When we saw the bird standing on the beach near The Hague yesterday in the
company of Sandwich Terns and Common Terns, it appeared marginally larger
than the Sandwich Terns and as equally light/dark on the upper parts as the
Sandwich Terns, perhaps even a little bit lighter. Its long orange bill
(longer than in Sandwich Tern) was slightly drooping and slightly lighter
(perhaps more yellowish) towards the tip. The whitish tail and rump
contrasted with the darker (grey) mantle and wings when flying. The bird
also had a small white area and whitish spots at the beginning of the jet
black summer cap near the base of the bill. We initially took this for very
early moult, perhaps due to the fact that the bird was a failed breeder,
but it was suggested by another birder that this bird might be a 2nd
summer/3rd calendar year bird instead of a fully adult bird. The suggestion
of a 2nd summer/3rd calendar year bird was made on the basis of a darker
subterminal bar on the secondaries, observed by a few birders, in close
view. This 2nd summer/3rd calendar year theory could be used to account for
the following field marks:
- the presence of a small white area at the beginning of the black summer
cap near the base of the bill.
- although clearly longer than the bills of any Sandwich Tern present, the
bill was not so long as (sometimes) seen in "classic" (adult) Elegant Terns
off the coast of California, but it is my understanding that this feature
varies according to, among other things, age and sex.
- the bill was (light) orange, gradually becoming lighter (perhaps more
yellowish) towards the tip
- the crest was not so shaggy and long as is the case with (some) classic
(adult) Elegant Terns, although when viewed from behind the crest hung down
from the back of the head like a ponytail.
On the other hand, so far as I know, only adult Elegant Terns have been
recorded in Western Europe to date. A 2nd summer/3rd calendar year bird
would therefore seem unusual and it is not really to be expected that
different Elegant Terns become regular stragglers to European waters. It is
far more likely to presume that only a few Elegant Terns ever made it to
European waters and annually move south and north in eastern Atlantic waters.
Does anyone know what 2nd summer/3rd calendar year Elegant Terns look like
on the west coast of America at this time of the year? Is a small whitish
area at the beginning of the summer cap near the base of the bill an
unusual feature in both 2nd summer/3rd year birds and adult birds in early
June?
You are welcome to get back to me privately or, preferably, share your
comments on this list.
Many thanks.
Willem-Jan Hooijmans
Boschplein 209
2171 GT Sassenheim
The Netherlands
E-mail: wjhooijmans(AT)wanadoo.nl
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: FW: [OB] Re: St Paul's Lark /delhibird
From: Alain Foss=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Angers France <alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: 11 Jun 2002 6:22am
De : "Roy Hargreaves" <Roy.Hargreaves(AT)btinternet.com>
Date : Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:32:40 +0100
À : <orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com>
Objet : Re: [OB] Re: St Paul's Lark /delhibird
Bill/Des,
I think that the bird is a Eurasian Skylark (Alauda arvensis). Japanese
Skylark (Alauda [a] japonica), if it exists as a species (there is debate
over this I am not passing my own opinion here see the original OBC
checklist which treats it as a subspecies), is a possibility but I don't
know enough about it at this stage to be absolutely certain. I seem to
remember from skins that it is structurally similar to Oriental Skylark
(Alauda gulgula), with a shorter primary-projection, and this bird looks
like a Eurasian Skylark.
Photo number two (top right) shows two widely-spaced primary tips, with
possibly a third tip protruding beyond that, and an obvious
primary-projection both of which are strongly indicative of A arvensis as
Japanese seems to consistently show a shorter primary-projection. If you
look at this photograph there is a piece of vegetation that obscures part of
the vent and wing and at the top left of this piece of vegetation is
where the tertials end. To the left of this vegetation and slightly down
from its top there are two black
patches surrounded by rufous-brown and these are two of the exposed
primaries. I think that a third primary-tip is just about visible as there
is a narrow dark line then more rufous-brown suggesting the wing-tip itself.
The primary-projection of Japanese Skylark seems, from initial research, to
be shorter than this and not as evenly-spaced. The strong head-streaking,
longish tail, long primary-projection, the bill structure etc all suggest
Eurasian Skylark. The pictures I have of Japanese Skylark show darker birds,
particularly on the upperparts with a strong rufous-brown wash across the
streaked breast - they don't appear clean-white on the underparts as this
bird does. Howver, I can't claim to have experience of Japanese Skylark but
I have extensive experience of Eurasian Skylark. It is certainly one of the
two and I would favour Eurasian.
I can see why at first glance Short-toed Lark might be mentioned because of
the black patch on the neck/breast side but it isn't a Calandrella for all
sorts of reasons. Firstly size - originally it was mentioned as being larger
than Lapland Longspur(Bunting), which is too big for any Calandrella (but
you wouldn't know that). It is too strikingly patterrned on the head to be
Hume's Short-toed Lark, too dark to be Sand Lark, too heavily streaked on
the breast to be Greater Short-toed Lark and the bill is the wrong shape and
too long for Lesser/Asian Short-toed Lark.
Roy
Bill,
Is this bird not either Japanese Skylark Alauda japonica?
the face pattern fits as does the longish tail as compared with
Bimaculated. The rusty rump is OK as is the primary projection and
the bill, dark crown streaks and whitish underparts where visible.
I don't count myself an expert on larks though.
By the way congratulations on the delhibird mystery bird site. I was
very interested to misidentify the shrike as an immature Brown
Shrike. Immature Long-tailed does not seem to be very well
documented. Craig Robson's book states that juveniles have a smaller
white wing patch rather than lacking it for example. Your photo seems
to lack it unless it is just the camera angle. Could you put some
more photos up of this bird, and of juv Long tailed in general?
cheers
Des
lets try and keep this to a gentle discussion and avoid e-mail shouting.
As
I explained my screen is showing rather fuzzy pictures and I cannot see a
long primary projection at all (I've just looked again at all four pics).
Nor do I see a Eurasian Skylark from my experience. But if you can see the
prmaries it cannot be Calandrella and I am happy to stand aside til I can
see a clear picture. Someone else e-mailed about Bimaculated. This species
(common here in winter) is a quite different shape apart from anything
else.
I'd be interested in what you have to say about head patterning of
Calendrellas. We have several species here in India (two very numerous
near
Delhi in winter) and anything you can add to field id would be much
appreciated. Our problem is the great variation between individuals when
you
are looking at 2-300 at 50 feet range!
regards Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Bradshaw" <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com>
To: <bill(AT)delhibird.org>
Cc: <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>; <orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 2:43 PM
Subject: St Paul's Lark
Whatever this lark is [and SURELY it is a Skylark] it is neither
Greater
Short-toed Lark or Hume's Lark as it has a whopping primary projection,
the
bill shape is wrong, the head pattern is wrong and there is too much
scalloping on the back
Support conservation. Join OBC at www.orientalbirdclub.org
To unsubscribe from this group:
email orientalbirding-unsubscribe(AT)yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--
____________________________
Desmond Allen
Tokyo,
Japan
Support conservation. Join OBC at www.orientalbirdclub.org
To unsubscribe from this group:
email orientalbirding-unsubscribe(AT)yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Support conservation. Join OBC at www.orientalbirdclub.org
To unsubscribe from this group:
email orientalbirding-unsubscribe(AT)yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Who is perched there ?
From: Michel Bertrand <bertrmi(AT)COLBA.NET>
Date: 11 Jun 2002 9:03am
A new mystery bird is on QuébecOiseaux quiz webpage at
http://www.quebecoiseaux.qc.ca/HTML/Defi.html
That's the quiz 23.
For those who could have a problem in understanding the French text on the
website, here is a translation. I hope you will try to identify the quiz
bird and I will like very much to receive me your answer (for sure, you can
answer in English if you wish so). Please don't include my message when
replying, because I have to print a work copy of all the received answers
when writing the official answer for the magazine.
DÉFI 23 (translation of the website text) :
Driving by a wood, you notice a raptor perched on the phone wire. As you do
have the chance to take a photo, you will be allowed to finely analyze it.
Which is this bird? Why?
Send your answer not later than July 5 to Michel Bertrand, 900 rue des
Paysans, Sainte-Julie, Qc, Canada (J3E 1K7) or, by e-mail, to
bertrmi(AT)colba.net . When answering, don't forget to include your complete
name and postal address (it's a rule to make you eligible for the draws).
Three one year subscriptions to the magazine QuébecOiseaux (or a
prolongation of your current subscription) which will be drawn among the
people who will have identified the bird correctly. And more: the Editor
Michel Quintin offers a copy of the field guide "Oiseaux du Québec et des
Maritimes" which will be also drawn among the people who will answer
correctly.
-----------------------
Answer to quiz 22
The former quiz bird was a worn female Red-winged Blackbird (Agelaius
phoeniceus, Carouge à épaulettes). See the current issue of QuébecOiseaux
for detailed text on its identification.
Here are the winners of the quiz 22. The three subsciptions to QuébecOiseaux
have been won by Gilberte Gallagher from Bonaventure (Qc), Michèle Morin
from Longueuil (Qc) and Angus Wilson from New York (NY). The Paquin & Caron
field guide has gone to Robert Fisher from Independence (Missouri).
Good luck ! Have fun...
MICHEL BERTRAND
Sainte-Julie, Qc
bertrmi(AT)colba.net
ORIGINAL FRENCH MESSAGE :
Le Défi 23 de QuébecOiseaux est maintenant affiché au site Internet à :
http://www.quebecoiseaux.qc.ca/HTML/Defi.html
Vous trouverez là, aussi, la réponse au vrai Défi 22.
Identifiez le nouvel oiseau mystère et faites-moi parvenir votre réponse en
n'oubliant pas d'inclure votre nom complet et votre adresse postale (c'est
une règle pour être éligible pour les prix).
SVP, ne pas inclure le présent message avec votre réponse (parce que j'en
reçois beaucoup et que je dois toutes les imprimer).
Voici les noms des gagnants du Défi 22. Les trois abonnements à
QuébecOiseaux ont été remportés par Gilberte Gallagher de Bonaventure,
Michèle Morin de Longueuil et Angus Wilson de New York. Le guide Paquin et
Caron est allé à Robert Fisher d'Independence (Missouri).
Bonne chance...
MICHEL BERTRAND
Sainte-Julie, Qc
bertrmi(AT)colba.net
N'oubliez pas d'identifier l'oiseau mystère :
Don't forget to identify the mystery bird at :
http://www.quebecoiseaux.qc.ca/HTML/Defi.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: FW: [OB] Japanese Lark
From: Alain Foss=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Angers France <alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: 11 Jun 2002 11:23am
De : "wbkenglish" <wbkenglish(AT)aol.com>
Date : Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:34:47 -0000
À : orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com
Objet : [OB] Japanese Lark
Hi OBCers,
Following on from the rather heated discussion surrounding the "USA
Lark" images, you may be interested to know that we've put up six
stills of Japanese Lark (three juvenile and three adult) on our
website, with field descriptions based on ten years in Japan and
Korea. The page is http://www.wbkenglish.com/id_forum.asp/. We'd
welcome any comments.
Cheers,
Charlie Moores,
WBKEnglish.com site co-ordinator
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Goose Identification
From: "Beck, Michael" <Michael.Beck(AT)ACCPAC.COM>
Date: 11 Jun 2002 11:32am
I agree with Jeffrey as I have seen leucistic Canada Goose on the west coast
and they look exactly like a normal Canada Goose, except they are a very
light beige tone. Quite attractive actually. I have also seen Snow Goose x
Canada Goose and they tend to be very easy to ID, with the body being mainly
Canada and the Neck/Head of the Snow. The bill tends to be very Canada Goose
shaped, with a dark colour.
--michael
Michael Beck
Vancouver, BC
michael.beck(at)accpac.com
Jeffrey Wrote:
>Angus and others, This bird has the head and body shape as well as the neck
feather pattern of the Toulouse Goose, a domestic variety that I raised as
kid until I went to college. I would doubt that there is any Canada Goose
genes is this individual at all. It is likely whiter as it is the result of
a cross between some other white domestic goose and a Toulouse. These
crosses are quite common. In fact I had an African Goose/Toulouse Goose
cross that looked a lot like this bird except that it had a large bulb at
the top of the beak. That is my opinion. Anybody else?
Angus Wrote:
<I have posted photos of an all white goose tentatively identified as a
leucistic Canada Goose <(Branta canadensis). The only hiccup to this
seemingly straightforward ID are slight differences <in the head and bill
shape.
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Fw: Elegant Tern in the Netherlands
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 11 Jun 2002 11:55am
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
I'm wondering about the description of the upperparts being paler than a
Sandwich Tern. Elegants are darker gray than Royal when I've seen them
together in CA. I would guess that would make darker than Sandwich, which is
pretty pale in Europe to my recollection. Of course, it could simply be a
very worn bird.
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Reid [mailto:upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 4:53 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Fw: Elegant Tern in the Netherlands
Dear all, I've been asked to post this to ID-F:
Dear birders,
I would like to receive input from knowledgeable US birders, especially
west coast birders, who subscribe to this list regarding a very recent
sighting of a presumed Elegant Tern in the Netherlands. If accepted by the
Dutch Rarities Committee, this bird would constitute the first accepted
sight record of this species for the Netherlands.
However, before we submit a detailed report with photographs (still to be
developed), we would like to establish the age of this bird first.
When we saw the bird standing on the beach near The Hague yesterday in the
company of Sandwich Terns and Common Terns, it appeared marginally larger
than the Sandwich Terns and as equally light/dark on the upper parts as the
Sandwich Terns, perhaps even a little bit lighter. Its long orange bill
(longer than in Sandwich Tern) was slightly drooping and slightly lighter
(perhaps more yellowish) towards the tip. The whitish tail and rump
contrasted with the darker (grey) mantle and wings when flying. The bird
also had a small white area and whitish spots at the beginning of the jet
black summer cap near the base of the bill. We initially took this for very
early moult, perhaps due to the fact that the bird was a failed breeder,
but it was suggested by another birder that this bird might be a 2nd
summer/3rd calendar year bird instead of a fully adult bird. The suggestion
of a 2nd summer/3rd calendar year bird was made on the basis of a darker
subterminal bar on the secondaries, observed by a few birders, in close
view. This 2nd summer/3rd calendar year theory could be used to account for
the following field marks:
- the presence of a small white area at the beginning of the black summer
cap near the base of the bill.
- although clearly longer than the bills of any Sandwich Tern present, the
bill was not so long as (sometimes) seen in "classic" (adult) Elegant Terns
off the coast of California, but it is my understanding that this feature
varies according to, among other things, age and sex.
- the bill was (light) orange, gradually becoming lighter (perhaps more
yellowish) towards the tip
- the crest was not so shaggy and long as is the case with (some) classic
(adult) Elegant Terns, although when viewed from behind the crest hung down
from the back of the head like a ponytail.
On the other hand, so far as I know, only adult Elegant Terns have been
recorded in Western Europe to date. A 2nd summer/3rd calendar year bird
would therefore seem unusual and it is not really to be expected that
different Elegant Terns become regular stragglers to European waters. It is
far more likely to presume that only a few Elegant Terns ever made it to
European waters and annually move south and north in eastern Atlantic
waters.
Does anyone know what 2nd summer/3rd calendar year Elegant Terns look like
on the west coast of America at this time of the year? Is a small whitish
area at the beginning of the summer cap near the base of the bill an
unusual feature in both 2nd summer/3rd year birds and adult birds in early
June?
You are welcome to get back to me privately or, preferably, share your
comments on this list.
Many thanks.
Willem-Jan Hooijmans
Boschplein 209
2171 GT Sassenheim
The Netherlands
E-mail: wjhooijmans(AT)wanadoo.nl
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: FW: [OB] Japanese Lark
From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan(AT)CCSF.ORG>
Date: 11 Jun 2002 1:13pm
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 20:23:39 +0200, Alain Fossé Angers France
<alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM> wrote:
>De : "wbkenglish" <wbkenglish(AT)aol.com>
>Date : Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:34:47 -0000
>À : orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com
>Objet : [OB] Japanese Lark
>
>Hi OBCers,
>
>Following on from the rather heated discussion surrounding the "USA
>Lark" images, you may be interested to know that we've put up six
>stills of Japanese Lark (three juvenile and three adult) on our
>website, with field descriptions based on ten years in Japan and
>Korea. The page is http://www.wbkenglish.com/id_forum.asp/. We'd
>welcome any comments.
The page may not be reachable in all browsers as written. Removing
the final "/" worked for me.
The text says:
"At present time, most "skylarks" in north-east Asia are said to be
Northern (or Eurasian) Skylarks. Possibly three or four forms occur in
Korea, ranging from the pale lonnbergi to birds with virtually
all-dark tertials like pekinensis, the form thought to be the one
introduced onto Canada’s Vancouver Island."
May I ask on what basis the birds on Vancouver Island are thought to
be pekinensis? All the North American literature I have says they are
A. A. arvensis.
Your treatment of japonica as a full species is interesting, but why
not regard it as a race of A. gulgula with which it shares many
morphological and behavioral traits? C.f. the treatment by Jurgen
Haffer in the "Handbuch der Vogel Mitteleuropas" (U. Glutz, ed.). It
is sympatric with arvensis on Kunashir Island and elsewhere, but I am
unaware of any sympatry between japonica and gulgula during the
breeding season.
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044: mailto:jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
Fall Birding Classes start Sept 4: http://fog.ccsf.org/~jmorlan/
California Bird Records Committee: http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: St Paul Island Lark (fwd)
From: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 11 Jun 2002 1:59pm
HI:
More on the SKylark question.
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:19:22 +0100
From: Roy Hargreaves <Roy.Hargreaves(AT)btinternet.com>
To: ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
Subject: re: St Paul Island Lark
Ian,
Further to my note expressing the opinion that the bird was a Eurasian
Skylark this URL http://www.wbkenglish.com/id_forum.asp was put on to OB in
discussion about said bird and shows photos of Japanese Skylark. From these
we can safely eliminate Japanese Skylark and confirm Eurasian Skylark.
Regards
Roy Hargreaves
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: FW: [OB] Re: St Paul's Lark /delhibird
From: Macklin Smith <macklins(AT)UMICH.EDU>
Date: 11 Jun 2002 2:03pm
All--
Although I would not presume to ascribe the
photos to any species myself, my impression
is certainly consistent with Eurasian Sky-
lark. Perhaps it is worth bearing in mind
that there are literally scores of records
of this species for the Aleutians in the
spring--we used to expect to find one or many
on any given year on Attu. Although proba-
bility is not identification, it probably
should have some bearing in this case.
Macklin Smith
University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
macklins(AT)umich.edu
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: FW: [OB] Re: St Paul's Lark /delhibird
From: Alain Foss=?ISO-8859-1?B?6Q==?= Angers France <alfosse(AT)BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: 11 Jun 2002 2:14pm
De : "nial moores" <spoonbill(AT)hotmail.com>
Date : Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:44:39 +0000
À : Roy.Hargreaves(AT)btinternet.com
Cc : orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com
Objet : Re: [OB] Re: St Paul's Lark /delhibird
Dear Roy and other OBers,
Greetings.
Further to the message earlier posted by Charlie about Japanese Lark (which
is actually found in NE Siberia, South Korea and probably eastern China in
addition to Japan), i would like to comment briefly on Roy's obervations
sent in yesterday as part of the useful discussion on the "St Paul's Lark".
Although agreeing with several of the well-observed criteria, it seems,
based on extensive field experience here in Japan and Korea (over 12 years),
that primary spacing and projection is perhaps not really of very much use
in separating J. Lark from Northern Skylark. Although Northerns can show
obvious long primary projection, so can Japanese (from memory on occasion up
to 4 well-spaced primary tips beyond the longest tertial). There really
does appear to be great variation within forms and presumably within
individuals (especially due to wear and moult?) in this region.
Incidentally, however, there are several other reasonable and apparently
consistent id features (that suggest Japanese Lark might well be a valid
species), such as its clean pectoral band and its tendency to sing with its
tail closed, apparently like members of the Oriental Skylark gulgula
complex..Irrespective of the St Paul's bird (photos of which I have not seen
yet: where were they posted please?) the skylarks in NE Asia and throughout
the region are surely worthy of our rather greater attention?
Best of birding (and success to whoever you are supporting in the World
Cup!)
Nial Moores
South Korea
spoonbill(AT)hotmail.com
http://www.wbkenglish.com
From: "Roy Hargreaves" <Roy.Hargreaves(AT)btinternet.com>
To: <orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OB] Re: St Paul's Lark /delhibird
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:32:40 +0100
Bill/Des,
I think that the bird is a Eurasian Skylark (Alauda arvensis). Japanese
Skylark (Alauda [a] japonica), if it exists as a species (there is debate
over this I am not passing my own opinion here see the original OBC
checklist which treats it as a subspecies), is a possibility but I don't
know enough about it at this stage to be absolutely certain. I seem to
remember from skins that it is structurally similar to Oriental Skylark
(Alauda gulgula), with a shorter primary-projection, and this bird looks
like a Eurasian Skylark.
Photo number two (top right) shows two widely-spaced primary tips, with
possibly a third tip protruding beyond that, and an obvious
primary-projection both of which are strongly indicative of A arvensis as
Japanese seems to consistently show a shorter primary-projection. If you
look at this photograph there is a piece of vegetation that obscures part
of
the vent and wing and at the top left of this piece of vegetation is
where the tertials end. To the left of this vegetation and slightly down
from its top there are two black
patches surrounded by rufous-brown and these are two of the exposed
primaries. I think that a third primary-tip is just about visible as there
is a narrow dark line then more rufous-brown suggesting the wing-tip
itself.
The primary-projection of Japanese Skylark seems, from initial research, to
be shorter than this and not as evenly-spaced. The strong head-streaking,
longish tail, long primary-projection, the bill structure etc all suggest
Eurasian Skylark. The pictures I have of Japanese Skylark show darker
birds,
particularly on the upperparts with a strong rufous-brown wash across the
streaked breast - they don't appear clean-white on the underparts as this
bird does. Howver, I can't claim to have experience of Japanese Skylark but
I have extensive experience of Eurasian Skylark. It is certainly one of the
two and I would favour Eurasian.
I can see why at first glance Short-toed Lark might be mentioned because of
the black patch on the neck/breast side but it isn't a Calandrella for all
sorts of reasons. Firstly size - originally it was mentioned as being
larger
than Lapland Longspur(Bunting), which is too big for any Calandrella (but
you wouldn't know that). It is too strikingly patterrned on the head to be
Hume's Short-toed Lark, too dark to be Sand Lark, too heavily streaked on
the breast to be Greater Short-toed Lark and the bill is the wrong shape
and
too long for Lesser/Asian Short-toed Lark.
Roy
Bill,
Is this bird not either Japanese Skylark Alauda japonica?
the face pattern fits as does the longish tail as compared with
Bimaculated. The rusty rump is OK as is the primary projection and
the bill, dark crown streaks and whitish underparts where visible.
I don't count myself an expert on larks though.
By the way congratulations on the delhibird mystery bird site. I was
very interested to misidentify the shrike as an immature Brown
Shrike. Immature Long-tailed does not seem to be very well
documented. Craig Robson's book states that juveniles have a smaller
white wing patch rather than lacking it for example. Your photo seems
to lack it unless it is just the camera angle. Could you put some
more photos up of this bird, and of juv Long tailed in general?
cheers
Des
lets try and keep this to a gentle discussion and avoid e-mail
shouting.
As
I explained my screen is showing rather fuzzy pictures and I cannot see
a
long primary projection at all (I've just looked again at all four
pics).
Nor do I see a Eurasian Skylark from my experience. But if you can see
the
prmaries it cannot be Calandrella and I am happy to stand aside til I
can
see a clear picture. Someone else e-mailed about Bimaculated. This
species
(common here in winter) is a quite different shape apart from anything
else.
I'd be interested in what you have to say about head patterning of
Calendrellas. We have several species here in India (two very numerous
near
Delhi in winter) and anything you can add to field id would be much
appreciated. Our problem is the great variation between individuals when
you
are looking at 2-300 at 50 feet range!
regards Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Bradshaw" <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com>
To: <bill(AT)delhibird.org>
Cc: <alfosse(AT)bigfoot.com>; <orientalbirding(AT)yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 2:43 PM
Subject: St Paul's Lark
Whatever this lark is [and SURELY it is a Skylark] it is neither
Greater
Short-toed Lark or Hume's Lark as it has a whopping primary
projection,
the
bill shape is wrong, the head pattern is wrong and there is too much
scalloping on the back
Support conservation. Join OBC at www.orientalbirdclub.org
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--
____________________________
Desmond Allen
Tokyo,
Japan
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Nial Moores
Public Awareness and Education Specialist, UNDP-GEF Wetlands Biodiversity
Project (PDF-B)
E-mail (personal): spoonbill(AT)hotmail.com
http://www.wbkenglish.com
H/P: 82-(0)11-9303-1963
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Fw: Elegant Tern in the Netherlands
From: Laurent Raty <l_raty(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 11 Jun 2002 3:43pm
> The suggestion
> of a 2nd summer/3rd calendar year bird was made on the basis of a darker
> subterminal bar on the secondaries, observed by a few birders, in close
> view.
Such a dark bar has been present on a very significant proportion of
European Elegant Terns, actually.
At the very least:
Ireland, 1982 (from description);
France, banded bird, 1987 (from description; obvious on pictures);
Ireland, 1998 (from description, obvious on pics);
Britain, 2002 (obvious on the pics).
...additionally: I'm not sure of what I see on the Danish pics (2000) but a
slight dark bar could well be present too; I've seen no pics showing the
secondaries for the 1974-1985 French birds, nor for the 1993 Spanish bird,
but the latter was described as having 'primaries and secondaries slightly
darker' (than coverts), which could be, again, interpreted as a slight
secondary bar (?). The Belgian 1988 orange-billed tern is in fact the only
European Elegant-type Tern for which I'm completely sure no secondary bar
was present, but this one was not accepted as an Elegant.
Interpretations I've read varied from birds being possibly 2nd-summer (ao,
Rare Birds in Britain and Ireland, A Photographic Record, commenting the
1982 Irish record), to this being hypothesized to occur frequently on full
adult Elegant Terns (Dubois & CHN, Ornithos 1: 74-79, about the French 1987
bird) (any comment?). In other cases, it was not discussed at all, just
accepted as a fact.
Malling Olsen suggest this feature can be present up to the second winter,
but pic 60 in this book shows a bird with a strong dark secondary bar, that
also has a full black cap and a very long crest (hence, at the very least a
2nd-summer).
> - although clearly longer than the bills of any Sandwich Tern present, the
> bill was not so long as (sometimes) seen in "classic" (adult) Elegant
> Terns off the coast of California, but it is my understanding that this
> feature varies according to, among other things, age and sex.
I would not assume that a 3rd calendar-year bird should have a shorter bill
than average. If you're looking for an explanation, sex is a far more likely
one, IMHO.
> I'm wondering about the description of the upperparts being paler than a
> Sandwich Tern. Elegants are darker gray than Royal when I've seen them
> together in CA. I would guess that would make darker than Sandwich, which
> is pretty pale in Europe to my recollection. Of course, it could simply
> be a very worn bird.
I'm having problems interpreting this character too.
There has been some variation in the description of the upperparts of
European Elegants - looking through the birds about which I have the
information:
France, 1974-1985: described as similar to Sandwich (but description quite
basic).
Ireland, 1982: 'fractionally darker'? (The text I have describes Elegant as
a species, than switches to the particularities of the Irish individual -
I'm unclear if this bird was indeed fractionally darker or not.)
France, banded bird, 1987: described as rather similar to S.T. but
light-dependent; in shadow, seemed darker and slightly less bluish. (The ID
of this bird is disputed, the French CHN seemingly retains it as an Elegant,
but meanwhile admitted - I quote from the English abstract - 'it is very
difficult to say, if it had "Sandwich genes", or not'...)
Belgium, 1988: somewhat paler ('iets lichter') than S.T. (This bird was not
accepted as an Elegant; the risk of it being a hybrid was considered too
high at that time.)
Spain, 1993: 'exactly same color as S.T.'...
Ireland, 1998: 'very similar in tone to S.T., often appearing very slightly
paler grey'; looks quite consistently paler to me on pictures.
Denmark, 2000: I've read no description, but looks decidedly pale on pics.
(To my knowledge, this bird is not yet accepted.)
Sandwich is pretty pale over all of its range if you exclude Cayenne, but
American acuflavida are said by Malling Olsen to be 'perhaps paler' (which,
if true, could prevent to apply results from direct comparisons in America
to the European situation).
There are only two Elegant skins in the collections at the Royal Institute
for Nature Sciences in Brussels and, in direct comparison to sandvicensis
skins, they appear darker.
Possibly wear can explain the variations? - not sure - any advice?
In any case, it seems clear that, in practice, European Elegants appearing
darker than S.T. is not at all the rule. (Perhaps also noteworthy: the only
birds described as being indeed darker were the earliest ones.)
Regards,
Laurent
Laurent Raty
l_raty(AT)hotmail.com
Brussels, Belgium
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: LB Heron and plumes
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 11 Jun 2002 6:38pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Greetings
A typical appearing LBHE that just appeared in eastern WA showed very long
dark plumes.
Cheers
Steven Mlodinow
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: An Oriole from Wiscosnsin
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 11 Jun 2002 9:16pm
Out of 7 replies about the second year oriole from Wisconsin, no one was
able to say that they had seen Orchards with such an extensive amount of
black on the throat. Hooded could not be confidently supported because of
the inferior shot quality not allowing for close examination of the bill,
back and wings but three strongly suggested Scott's based on overall color
and the amount of black on the throat; this species is not unprecedented in
the Midwest.
John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Idzikowski" <idzikoj(AT)uwm.edu>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 8:04 AM
Subject: An Oriole from Wiscosnsin
> Orchard Orioles are a regular but uncommon breeder in southern Wisconsin;
> this May we have seen nearly unprecedented numbers of apparent southern
and
> southwestern migrational overshoots including this species, Summer
Tanagers
> and others. Many digitals and video captures are showing up of these birds
> at feeders. The bird of interest is a second year male with what appears
to
> us to be a black bib that is unusually extensive for an Orchard. Has
anyone
> seen SY male Orchards with this pattern or should we start to consider a
> young male Hooded?
>
> See the shots at http://community.webshots.com/user/idzikoj
>
>
> John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Elegant Tern in the Netherlands
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 12 Jun 2002 4:40am
Dear all, Willem-Jan has asked me to post this for him:-
"*******************************************************
Dear birders,
Laurent is right about the presence of (traces of) a secondary bar on a
very significant proportion of (presumed) Elegant Terns in Europe.
The interesting question here is, of course, how this feature should be
interpreted. Is the presence of traces of a secondary bar on a (presumed)
Elegant Tern in May-July that is obviously older than a 1st summer/2nd
calendar year bird indicative of 2nd summer/3rd calendar year plumage or
are fully adult birds (4th calendar year and older) known to show traces of
a secondary bar at this time of the year as well? Is it perhaps an
intricate pattern of moult and wear that causes traces of a secondary bar
to be present on adult birds as well? If fully adult birds are known to
show this feature as well, is it common for fully adult birds to show this
feature? What proportion of adult Elegant Terns on the American west coast
show this feature in May-July? Does anybody know?
So far nobody has commented on the presence of a small white spot over the
bill of an Elegant Tern in 2nd summer or adult plumage in April-July. A
small white spot over the bill was present on the Dutch bird of June 2002
(and possibly on the [same?] British bird of May 2002), the Spanish bird of
April 1993, and the Irish bird of June-July 1982. Is the presence of a
small white spot over the bill in April-July indicative of immature, i.e.
not yet fully adult plumage, or is it more likely a sign of moult in adult
birds? Is the presence of a small white spot over the bill known to occur
on immature/adult Elegant Terns in California in April-July and how is this
feature interpreted by American birders?
Although I cannot prove otherwise, I would have to disagree with Laurent
about a shorter bill not being indicative of age as well. Juvenile Elegant
Terns obviously have shorter bills than adults and it would not be too
unreasonable to assume that IF 2nd summer Elegant Terns can be identified
in the field on the basis of plumage, it is not unlikely that bill length
in not yet fully adult birds is slightly shorter as well. Would American
birders care to comment? Incidentally, most pictures of (presumed) Elegant
Terns in Europe that I have seen seem to show bills that are not so long as
those shown by "classic" (adult male?) birds in California.
We could, of course, nitpick about the exact colour on the upper parts, but
this is a rather subjective feature depending on the observer, conditions
of observation, etc. To me the upper parts looked about the same in
colouration, under certain conditions sometimes perhaps marginally lighter,
as those of Sandwich Terns in the vicinity, but I would not be surprised if
to other observers the bird looked marginally darker under different
conditions. The most important thing is that according to most Dutch
observers the upper part colouration of the presumed Elegant Tern in the
Netherlands was very close to that of the Sandwich Terns in the vicinity,
perhaps either marginally lighter or marginally darker.
If the birds, accepted as Elegant Terns in France, Ireland, and Spain are
not Elegant Terns, what are they? There are now what would seem to be
well-documented records of Elegant Terns in Europe and many photographs
(for the most recent pictures of [presumed] Elegant Tern in Britain see
e.g.http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/search.cgi). The hybrid
hypothesis seems to me the easy way out to explain the increasing number of
(presumed) Elegant Tern records in Europe. There is no hard evidence to
support the hybrid Lesser Crested Tern x Sandwich Tern or Elegant Tern x
Sandwich Tern as a way to account for the astonishing number of large
orange-billed Terns in Western Europe.
Perhaps the discrepancy between the scarcity of records of Elegant Terns on
the American east coast and the increasing number of records in Western
Europe could be explained by the hypothesis that Elegant Terns are more
likely to head too far south down the west coast of South America, round
Cape Horn and then move up the wrong ocean in a subsequent spring,
eventually tagging onto northward-moving Sandwich Terns, as postulated by
Vinicombe in "Rare Birds in Britain & Ireland" (1996).
If this hypothesis is correct, it is also to be expected that less
experienced and non-breeding immature Elegant Terns are more likely to
wander to Europe than adult birds. Perhaps the very significant proportion
of birds showing secondary bars in Europe, as noted by Laurent, and shorter
and less brightly coloured bills and less shaggy crests are immature
Elegant Terns after all? What is actually known about age regarding the
extralimital Elegant Tern records for Arizona, Texas, Florida and Virginia?
Food for thought.
Best regards,
Willem-Jan Hooijmans
The Netherlands
E-mail: wjhooijmans(AT)wanadoo.nl
********************************************************** "
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Ages of Elegant Terns in Florida
From: Bill Pranty <billpranty(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 12 Jun 2002 5:35am
Dear Willem-Jan et al.,
All of Florida's Elegant Terns have been photographed, and can be viewed at
the following webpages:
http://www.javaswift.com/floridabirds/elegant%20tern%20nest.html
http://www.javaswift.com/floridabirds/elegant%20nesting.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/elegant_tern.htm (Make sure you
click on all the date links on the left side of this page to see all the
photos)
Best regards,
Bill
Bill Pranty
Audubon of Florida
410 Ware Boulevard, Suite 702,
Tampa, Florida 33619
813-623-6826
billpranty(AT)hotmail.com
Florida IBA Program: http://www.audubon.org/bird/iba/florida
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Dark-morph Little Egret
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 12 Jun 2002 7:22am
Assuming it really exists, what does a dark-morph Little Egret look like?
Does it have a white throat? I assume it has black legs and yellow "feet."
What proportion of the population does it comprise? And does it occur in
western Europe/Africa?
A few years ago I once observed here in Trinidad a dark heron with what
appeared to be a long, lanceolate plume like that of a Little Egret, but the
structure, plumage (including dark throat), and soft parts (including feet
coloration) of the bird were definitely Little Blue Heron. At the time I
recalled reading (in Winging It) about a Little Blue Heron with a long head
plume in Tennessee. The bird here was standing atop a tall tree with a
strong breeze blowing what I suspect was multiple plumes resembling a single
plume. I've since noticed shaggy head plumes, resembling those of Snowy
Egret, on some Little Blue Herons.
-Floyd
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Fw: Elegant Tern in the Netherlands
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 12 Jun 2002 8:08am
Dear all,
Here are photos of presumed Elegant Tern(s) in Texas last November:
http://members.tripod.com/~tbrc/tern.htm
- assuming that these are pure bird(s), they provide a useful comparison to
Sandwich Tern, regarding mantle tone
Regards,
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: FW: LB Heron and plumes
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 12 Jun 2002 9:43am
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
All:
I've had several responses to my post. What's intriguing is that the three
posts of observations of the LB Herons (involving 4 birds) that had plumes
all involved extralimital birds (CA, WA, Saskatchewan), and the Santa
Barbara bird is also extralimital.
The two observers from TX and FLA commented that they'd never seen plumes on
a LB Heron and the finder of the bird had just seen 30 or so in ARK and not
seen any plumes on these.
While it could be a coincidence that all the vagrant birds are just part of
a small percentage that show plumes, this seems unlikely. Is there some
geographic variation where certain show plumes? I'd be interested in
comments from around the country where Little Blues are common to see if
there is variation and also in observations from W. Mexico or San Diego. The
photos I looked at on the web didn't mention a location.
Regards, Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: SGMlod(AT)aol.com [mailto:SGMlod(AT)aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 6:38 PM
To: Lethaby, Nick; BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] LB Heron and plumes
Greetings
A typical appearing LBHE that just appeared in eastern WA showed very long
dark plumes.
Cheers
Steven Mlodinow
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: LB Heron and plumes
From: Kenn Kaufman <kennk(AT)IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: 12 Jun 2002 11:32am
Nick Lethaby wrote:
> I've had several responses to my post. What's intriguing is
> that the three posts of observations of the LB Herons
> (involving 4 birds) that had plumes all involved extralimital
> birds (CA, WA, Saskatchewan), and the Santa Barbara
>bird is also extralimital.
>
> The two observers from TX and FLA commented that
> they'd never seen plumes on a LB Heron and the finder
> of the bird had just seen 30 or so in ARK and not seen
> any plumes on these.
>
I think the main thing this indicates is that most observers don't look
closely at common birds, so that Little Blue Herons are more likely to be
examined carefully when they're outside their normal range. There could
also be some semantic confusion, with different observers having
different ideas of what kind of feather qualifies as a "plume." Whatever
the reason, it's common for full adult Little Blues in alternate plumage
to have a few long lanceolate plumes extending from the back of the head,
others on the lower neck (which are usually less obvious), and more on
the back, with some of the latter extending well beyond the end of the
tail. Many Little Blues will fail to show these plumes, of course, if
they're not in alternate plumage, or if they're not full adults, or if
they're simply standing in positions in which the plumes disappear
against the background or against the rest of the plumage; and no doubt
there's some individual variation in the length (and strength) of these
lanceolate plumes, as there is in other egret species.
Kenn Kaufman
Tucson, Arizona
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: LB Heron and plumes
From: ian paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 12 Jun 2002 1:58pm
HI:
Maybe we should call it Little Blue Egret! The illustration in the
National Geographic guide shows LBH with lots of plumes!
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Dark-morph Little Egret
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 12 Jun 2002 3:37pm
As to my query about dark-morph Little Egret, I just realized I have an
answer in my files, in an unpublished book chapter currently in press, which
I cannot quote for obvious reasons but surely can summarize since it simply
reviews previously references (one by "Ashkenazi 1993" is cited, but I don't
have the full citation). According to the authors, dark birds within the
normal inland range of nominate Egretta g. garzetta have been reported
periodically since 1869, but are difficult to interpret since there are no
specimens; hybridization with a dark-morph Western Reef-Heron (E. gularis or
E. garzetta gularis, depending on whose taxonomy is followed) is a possible
explanation. The authors considered it unclear whether a dark-morph E. g.
garzetta would have a white throat, as do most--but apparently not
all--dark-morph individuals of the "reef heron" taxa gularis, dimorpha and
schistacea. I'm concluding that a dark-morph Little Egret of the nominate
race is either incredibly rare or doesn't exist.
-Floyd
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Records of Dark Morph Broad-winged Hawk
From: JIm Barton <redwing1986(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 12 Jun 2002 6:24pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hello. I would be most grateful to be informed of sightings of Dark =
Morph Broad-winged Hawk east of the Mississippi, and from the Great =
Plains states west of the Mississippi. Reportedly, the Dark Morph is =
rare but regularly seen on migration in the Plains states. True? by =
your experience?
The Dark Morph has never been recorded at Hawk Mt., PA. I'm aware =
of two records east of the Mississippi, both from this year, 2002. =20
Yours, =20
Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)attbi.com
Cambridge, MA
US Coordinator Proact in the Americas
Campaigning for birds and their habitats before it's too late
www.proactnow.org
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Dark-morph Little Egret
From: Menotti Passarella <aster_men(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 13 Jun 2002 1:40am
--- Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
I'm concluding that a dark-morph Little
> Egret of the nominate
> race is either incredibly rare or doesn't exist.
Hi all.
Also according to me a dark-morph Little Egret doesn't
exist, at least in Europe.
Here are some dark-morph egrets, all of them are told
as Western Reef Herons, photographed either in Italy
or Spain:
Italy, Po Delta: 1 ind., April 2001 (©Menotti
Passarella):
http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/Gularisuno.jpg
Spain: 1 ind. Adult breeding plumage. Punta de la
Banya, Ebro Delta, 19 Jun 2001 (©Ferran López):
http://www.terra.es/personal5/arbmor/arbsf018.htm
Spain: A bird at Isla Mayor, Sevilla, on 14 Feb 2002
(©Jorge Garzón,Mario Martín, Paco Chiclana):
http://www.rarebirdspain.net/arbsr202.htm
Spain: another bird on 19 May at Laguna del Canal Vell
(playa de La Marquesa), Ebro Delta (©Mariano Cebolla):
http://rt00219h.eresmas.net/rareses
20ornitologiques.html
Regards
Menotti Passarella
Italy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medplants/
__________________________________________________
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http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Records of Dark Morph Broad-winged Hawk
From: Tony Leukering <GreatGrayO(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 13 Jun 2002 8:55am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi all:
There is a well-substantiated (photographed) record at Cape May in either
1989 or 1993 (I don't remember which, but I know it was one of the years that
I did the hawk count and I, unfortunately, did not see it). The form is
somewhat regular at Duluth and of sporadic occurrence at Whitefish Point, MI,
where I saw four individuals in my four spring working there - I actually saw
two in the same kettle once.
Additionally, dark-morph BWHAs are, indeed, regular in the west. They make
up something like 10% of BWHAs at places like the Goshutes (J. Liguori pers.
comm.) and at Dinosaur Ridge by Denver (Rocky Mountain Bird Observatory
unpub. data).
Sincerely,
Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: LB Heron and plumes
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle(AT)prbo.org>
Date: 13 Jun 2002 12:27pm
I responded to this yesterday but it may not have gone through so I apologize
if this is a repeat message.
I've been looking at a lot of specimens of herons and egrets lately
attempting to better-define molts and plumages by age and sex. I agree with
Kenn's comment that we just don't look hard enough at common or
easy-to-identify birds. In this case there may also be some confusion re
terminology. Some of the older literature (e.g., Chandler 1916, U. Calif.
Pubs. Zool. 13:243; Bock 1956, Am. Mus. Novit. 1779) differentiate heron and
egret plumes into "lanceolate" (or elongated and "spatulate", with the barbs
closely knit, as in Little Egret occiptal plumes) and "filamentous" (or
"fluffy", with the barbs separated as in Snowy Egret occiptal plumes). Of
8-10 spring adult Little Blue Herons I've looked at so far, all have had
filamentous occipital plumes, varying in length from 45 to 85 mm. I have come
across none with lanceolate occipital plumes and would be very interested if
others have observed these in this species. LBHE was unique among the North
American species in having both lanceolate and filamentous pectoral and
scapular plumes, so it is possible that some birds may show lanceolate
occipital plumes as well.
In most species these plumes begin to develop in fall, complete in winter,
and remain through much of the summer so are present most of the year.
First-year birds develop them as well (during the partial first prebasic
molt), although they are reduced in length (in LBHE they are also mixed white
and slate-blue) as compared with breeding adults. If there is a sex-specific
difference it is small (females averaging slightly shorter plumes, when fully
grown, than males) and with broad overlap.
Peter Pyle
Kenn Kaufman wrote:
> Nick Lethaby wrote:
>
> > I've had several responses to my post. What's intriguing is
> > that the three posts of observations of the LB Herons
> > (involving 4 birds) that had plumes all involved extralimital
> > birds (CA, WA, Saskatchewan), and the Santa Barbara
> >bird is also extralimital.
> >
> > The two observers from TX and FLA commented that
> > they'd never seen plumes on a LB Heron and the finder
> > of the bird had just seen 30 or so in ARK and not seen
> > any plumes on these.
> >
>
> I think the main thing this indicates is that most observers don't look
> closely at common birds, so that Little Blue Herons are more likely to be
> examined carefully when they're outside their normal range. There could
> also be some semantic confusion, with different observers having
> different ideas of what kind of feather qualifies as a "plume." Whatever
> the reason, it's common for full adult Little Blues in alternate plumage
> to have a few long lanceolate plumes extending from the back of the head,
> others on the lower neck (which are usually less obvious), and more on
> the back, with some of the latter extending well beyond the end of the
> tail. Many Little Blues will fail to show these plumes, of course, if
> they're not in alternate plumage, or if they're not full adults, or if
> they're simply standing in positions in which the plumes disappear
> against the background or against the rest of the plumage; and no doubt
> there's some individual variation in the length (and strength) of these
> lanceolate plumes, as there is in other egret species.
>
> Kenn Kaufman
> Tucson, Arizona
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Status of Dark Morph Broad-winged Hawk (Wow!!)
From: JIm Barton <redwing1986(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 13 Jun 2002 4:38pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hello. I would first like to thank the many people who have replied =
to my query concerning sightings of Dark Morph Broad-winged Hawk. I =
will reply personally and privately to you all. But first, I wanted to =
make sure you knew how much I have appreciated your immediate response.
Since I am still getting responses, I will wait for several days =
before summarizing them (without mentioning names, if people don't want =
them mentioned).
I did say WOW in the subject line. I did so for several reasons. =
First, from what I have been able to learn so far, the Dark Morph is =
exceedingly rare. I have been told by well-informed and well-qualified =
people, including a Canadian wildlife official, that the population may =
number as few as 300 pair, and is, in the words of that authoritative =
source, "much closer to 300 pair than to 3,000 pair". But despite the =
bird's great rarity, it wanders widely on migration (incredibily widely, =
to my way of thinking). Contrary to at least one published source, the =
bird most definitely occurs east of the Mississippi, and, though it =
occurs there rarely, it occurs by no means as infrequently as I had =
previously thought; indeed, I have just been informed of two previous =
records in Massachusetts (both in Fall; my sighting was May 4, 2002).
Please do keep the reports coming. Yes, I very interested in =
negative data as well as positive data. No, the Dark Morph has never =
been seen at Hawk Mt., PA, but yes, it has been seen not very far away. =
Several very interesting questions can be raised on the basis of =
what you have told me so far. I won't attempt to pose them now, because =
I think you are about to report additional data which would help to =
frame those questions.
Again, thanks so very much.
Yours, =20
Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)attbi.com
Cambridge, MA
US Coordinator Proact in the Americas
Campaigning for birds and their habitats before it's too late
www.proactnow.org
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Pictures available of presumed Elegant Tern in
the Netherlands
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 14 Jun 2002 3:44am
Dear All,
- from Willem-Jam:
"*************************************************
Dear birders,
Pictures of the presumed Elegant Tern in the Netherlands are now available at:
- http://www.cursorius.com/ ----> click on Recent Rarities
- http://www.dutchbirding.nl/ ---> click on Picture gallery
The Dutch bird clearly shows a whitish tail and rump (contra Lesser Crested
Tern), but does not seem to show the typical features of a "classic"
(adult?) Elegant Tern. Notice also the onset of moult over the bill in
early June or could this be explained as a sign of not yet fully adult
plumage? This bird also showed traces of a secondary bar, only visible when
it raised its wings.
Would this bird stand out as "odd" in California or would nobody care to
look twice? Does anybody care to comment?
Best regards,
Willem-Jan Hooijmans
The Netherlands
E-mail: wjhooijmans(AT)wanadoo.nl
***************************************************
"
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Pictures available of presumed Elegant Tern
in the Netherlands
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 14 Jun 2002 5:09am
>The Dutch bird clearly shows a whitish tail and rump (contra Lesser Crested
>Tern), but does not seem to show the typical features of a "classic"
>(adult?) Elegant Tern. Notice also the onset of moult over the bill in
>early June or could this be explained as a sign of not yet fully adult
>plumage? This bird also showed traces of a secondary bar, only visible when
>it raised its wings.<
It is an age thing. The bird is in 2nd summer plumage. It probably reached
Europe as a 1st winter and is now looking for a mate. If it finds one, eggs
can be expected at the end of June or beginning of July. Years ago I had a
Forster's Tern in similar plumage paired to a Common Tern breeding in the
Port of Rotterdam.
Norman
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Elegant Terns in Europe
From: Julian Hough <Jrhough1(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 14 Jun 2002 10:18am
Dear all,
I apologise if I have missed some earlier threads which may contain more info,
but the Elegant Tern in the Netherlands is likely a second-summer rather than an
adult, given the date is probably too early for an adult to be in moult.
The pale forehead is typical of many second-summer sterna terns, a feature which
can be variable from just a few white flecks in the fore crown, to an extensive
"winter, sterna-type" headpattern, or, as typically shown in the Netherland
bird, a "noseband". Though I am unsure of the moult sequence in Elegant Terns,
similarly aged Forster's Terns I have studied in summer at Cape May, showed a
moult contrast in the primaries (fresher inners and more worn outers)which I
would expect a similarly aged Elegant to show.
The white rump, length of bill and longish looking legs seem to fit Elegant,
though I am unsure at to how shaggy the crest, and how drooping the bill really
appears in the photos.
The yellowish cast to the bill is pro-Elegant.
My main questions, and similar to everyone elses, is that if this is not an
Elegant Tern what is it?
Also what was the outcome of the Elegant-type Tern present at Zeebrugge (?)
several years ago?
What do Lesser-crested x Sandwich Terns look like in adult plumage, and would
they pose any identification pitfalls with Elegant? Possibly, but if these are
hybrids and not Elegant Terns, what is the explanation for the Elegant-like
yellowish cast to the bills of these individuals?
Given the Banc d'Aurguin situation in France, what does a Sandwich Tern x
Elegant Tern look like in the field and how would it differ from a pure Elegant?
As for origin, it has always surprised me that Elegant Tern has apparently shown
up several times in Europe when there has been only one (I believe) non-Florida
East coast record! If, as hypothesized, they are rounding the Cape in the
Southern Hemisphere and returning north into the Northern Atlantic region, why
are there no increases in records along the mid-Atlantic seabord.
I've seen more Whiskered Terns in New Jersey than I have Elegant Terns!!!
Europe continues to amaze us with producing the most outlandish birds, perhaps
we should not be too surprised...
Julian Hough,
CT, USA
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Elegant X 'Cayenne' Tern?
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 14 Jun 2002 1:33pm
In some of the photos of the Netherlands tern the bill appears to be a bit
stout and straight. I was surprised to read last week in the Sandwich Tern
account in "Birds of North America" that suspected Elegant X 'Cayenne' Tern
hybrids had been seen recently in the Dutch West Indies of the southwestern
Caribbean. Could the Netherlands bird represent such a hybrid? We should
consider what one would look like.
Are there any confirmed records of Elegant Tern from anywhere in the
Caribbean? I suspect not, but they could be overlooked. My copy of Pitirre
14(3), published by the Society of Caribbean Ornithology (name recently
changed to Society for the Conservation and Study of Caribbean Birds, I
think) arrived yesterday and includes an abstract by Adrian J. del Nevo
titled "The status, distribution, and conservation of terns on Aruba and
Bonaire." It reports: "Over 10,000 pairs of terns representing 10 species,
and including (at least) four species of regional or international
importance, nest on small groups of islets near human activity... The
nesting islets include a large colony of Cayenne Tern (Sterna sandvicensis
eurygnatha), which may represent over 60% of the world population for this
species." Given the paucity of observers in the region, perhaps some Elegant
Terns are nesting there undetected and wandering northeastward, which might
account for the recent records in Florida, Texas and elsewhere--including
Europe. I've been looking for them here in Trinidad...
-Floyd
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Pictures available of presumed Elegant Tern
in the Netherlands
From: Laurent Raty <l_raty(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 14 Jun 2002 1:46pm
Hi all,
We have some very interesting primary moult patterns here, I feel.
A first observation:
- the Dutch bird on :
http://www.cursorius.com/rarities.html
shows consistently obvious signs of a suspended moult (p6-7 consistently
very dark, creating a blackish, roughly triangular patch between p8-10 and
p5, that are paler);
- the recent British bird on :
http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery9&start=
193
does not (it has a rather fresh outer wing, looking uniformly mid-grey,
lacking any contrast).
This type of pattern is a result of the prior history of the bird, I don't
believe it can be absent on a bird on 18 May and suddenly appear on the same
bird on 9 June. I could be fooled by 'lying' pics, of course, but I really
don't think it is the case. IMO, the probability for these two terns being
the same bird is extremely remote at best.
To continue on the subject of moult patterns, I would be much interested in
any knowledgeable comment about the following two propositions, that derive
mostly from my understanding of Malling Olsen's book. The text about ELTE
moult in this book is far from being the clearest thing I've read in my
life, so please correct me if I misinterpreted anything.
- Adult ELTE have a complete post-breeding moult.
They start moulting the inner primaries in summer and, by Sep, some have
renewed all of their primaries. However, most have not: they suspend their
moult and migrate with, most often, 1-3 old, worn primaries. They resume
this moult on the winter grounds, and may not complete it before Mar-Apr.
Additionally, in spring, they perform a partial pre-breeding moult that, as
in many other tern species, includes the replacement of roughly the inner
half of the primaries.
This is what results in patterns like the Dutch bird's: p1-7 have been
replaced in autumn, then moult was suspended, p8-10 were moulted later and
p1-5 were renewed a second time as part of the pre-breeding moult: now, p6-7
are significantly older than all the other primaries.
Suspending the autumn moult during southwards migration, to resume it on the
winter grounds, is a well described phenomenon for ELTE. On the other hand,
I am unaware of it having been described in any other Thalasseus species,
and I have never seen such a contrast in the wing of any Thalasseus that
wasn't an Elegant-type - on some birds, a.o. Sandwiches, there can be a
slight suggestion of it under some angles, which can make assessment on the
base of a single pic unsafe, but it usually never persists as soon as the
bird moves. I could doubt what I see on a single pic, but find it hard to
doubt something that appears clearly on about 10 different shots.
=> Proposition 1: I am inclined to consider this moult pattern as strongly
indicative of ELTE or, at least, ELTE parentage.
- The primary moult in immature ELTE occurs as follows.
Juvenile have a complete moult to 1st winter plumage. The first primary
moult wave starts with inner juvenile primaries, at the earliest in Nov,
more often in Jan-Feb, and progresses in these inner primaries during
spring. It is then usually suspended during summer (most often with 4-5
inner pp replaced, but this is quite variable) and resumed in Aug-Sep, to
be completed between Nov of the 2nd year and Jan of the 3rd year.
There is no moult into first-summer plumage (no first-summer plumage at all,
actually).
Moult into second-winter plumage is, again, complete. The second primary
moult wave starts with the replacement of the innermost 2nd generation
primaries, usually when the first wave has gone through 5-7 juvenile
feathers. Depending on the advancement of this first wave, this can happen
as early as June of the second year, but autumn is much more usual. At this
time, birds have two active moult waves running simultaneously in the wing,
and three generations of primaries.
(For an example of such a bird, check the first FL bird (3 Oct 1999) :
http://home.earthlink.net/~bonniedabird/FirstElegant.htm
Assuming this is indeed a second-winter, which I do believe: p9-10 are
juvenile, p3-8 are 2nd gen. feathers (p8 is growing, still very short),
p1-2 are in the process of being replaced with 3rd gen. feathers.)
At the time of the year at which many adults suspend their primary moult, a
2W is normally replacing its last retained juvenile outer primaries. Having
completed this first moult wave, it will then complete the second one and
get a third generation wing. Then, its inner primaries will be replaced
again in its first partial pre-breeding moult. Given this, if my
understanding is correct, a second summer should not retain any primary that
was moulted before its previous autumn migration.
=> Proposition 2: the wing of a 2nd-summer bird should not show such a
pattern; the wing of a 2nd winter should be relatively uniform, moderately
worn, and should show little contrast, like that of the British bird, unlike
that of the Dutch bird.
If this is correct, it means that :
- the Dutch bird has at least some affinities with ELTE;
- the Dutch bird is a full adult, at least a third summer, certainly not a
second-summer.
Any comments?
Best regards,
Laurent
Laurent Raty
l_raty(AT)hotmail.com
Brussels, Belgium
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Pictures available of presumed Elegant Tern
in the Netherlands
From: Julian Hough <Jrhough1(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 14 Jun 2002 5:15pm
In an earlier posting from work, I wrote,
"Though I am unsure of the moult sequence in Elegant Terns, similarly aged
Forster's Terns I have studied in summer at Cape May, showed a moult contrast
in the primaries (fresher inners and more worn outers)which I would expect a
similarly aged Elegant to show."
It would seem that after reading Laurent Raty's analysis of the moult
sequence in ELTE, the moult sequence is distinctly different from smaller
sternas. The ageing of the Dutch bird is more complicated than I, and most
others would have thought.
He's obviously put some thought into it (I got a first generation headache
during the second wave! - my own doing, not his!) and if you believe he's
correct, then it helps to accurately age individual(s). As for moult being
Elegant-specific, that's beyond my limits!
An interesting thread, one which observers in the west could add weight to.
Julian Hough,
CT, USA
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