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ID-FRONTIERS for September 15-21, 2002
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Odd Scoter | Steven Mlodinow | Sun, 15 Sep 2002 | 7:00pm |
| Re: Odd Scoter | Phil Davis | Sun, 15 Sep 2002 | 10:27pm |
| Fwd: Re: Odd Scoter | Phil Davis | Sun, 15 Sep 2002 | 11:35pm |
| Another US first from Gambell | Julian Hough | Mon, 16 Sep 2002 | 5:20pm |
| More from Gambell | Laurie Larson | Mon, 16 Sep 2002 | 6:00pm |
| [UKBN] Re: [surfbirdsnews]BOU Taxonomic Changes
(fwd) | Ian Paulsen | Tue, 17 Sep 2002 | 9:11am |
| Flesh-foot Shear bill color | D. Heindel | Tue, 17 Sep 2002 | 10:30am |
| Yellow-legged Gull ID & Taxonomy | Norman D.van Swelm | Tue, 17 Sep 2002 | 2:07pm |
| The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results | Dick Newell | Tue, 17 Sep 2002 | 2:53pm |
| Re: The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results | Norman D.van Swelm | Tue, 17 Sep 2002 | 3:09pm |
| The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results | Angus Wilson | Tue, 17 Sep 2002 | 8:02pm |
| Re: [UKBN] Re: [surfbirdsnews]BOU Taxonomic
Changes (fwd) | Graham Etherington | Wed, 18 Sep 2002 | 3:46am |
| The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results | Angus Wilson | Wed, 18 Sep 2002 | 5:06am |
| Re: The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results | Dick Newell | Wed, 18 Sep 2002 | 11:49am |
| The Muscicapa flycatcher on Gambell | Angus Wilson | Wed, 18 Sep 2002 | 12:55pm |
| Re: The Muscicapa flycatcher on Gambell | Lethaby, Nick | Wed, 18 Sep 2002 | 2:04pm |
| Re: The Muscicapa flycatcher on Gambell [From
Paul Lehman] | Angus Wilson | Wed, 18 Sep 2002 | 3:20pm |
| Re: BIRDWG01 Digest - 17 Sep 2002 to 18 Sep 2002
(#2002-195) | Stichting JOM | Thu, 19 Sep 2002 | 12:27am |
| unsubscribe | Granville Carey | Thu, 19 Sep 2002 | 2:00am |
| Re: The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results | Graham Etherington | Thu, 19 Sep 2002 | 2:50am |
| Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in
Poland | Jacek Betleja | Thu, 19 Sep 2002 | 5:25am |
| Re: Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in
Poland | Norman D.van Swelm | Thu, 19 Sep 2002 | 12:01pm |
| Brown Skuas off Carolinas | Martin | Thu, 19 Sep 2002 | 1:14pm |
| Re: White-headed Woodpecker in Montana? | Michael Cooper | Thu, 19 Sep 2002 | 1:28pm |
| Re: Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in
Poland | Dick Newell | Thu, 19 Sep 2002 | 2:19pm |
| juv RN vs YB Sapsuckers | Steven Mlodinow | Thu, 19 Sep 2002 | 3:57pm |
| female-type Lazuli and Indigo Buntings | Steven Mlodinow | Thu, 19 Sep 2002 | 4:22pm |
| green spots on red in male Painted Buntings | Steven Mlodinow | Thu, 19 Sep 2002 | 4:31pm |
| Re: Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in
Poland | Bruce Mactavish | Thu, 19 Sep 2002 | 6:25pm |
| an unusual American Black Tern | Martin Reid | Thu, 19 Sep 2002 | 7:02pm |
| Re: Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in
Poland | Nick Rossiter | Fri, 20 Sep 2002 | 1:31am |
| Re: Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in
Poland | Norman D.van Swelm | Fri, 20 Sep 2002 | 4:01am |
| Tree Swallow" rump" pattern | Martin Reid | Fri, 20 Sep 2002 | 5:11am |
| Re: Brown Skuas off Carolinas | Harry Legrand | Fri, 20 Sep 2002 | 5:55am |
| Gull relationships | Floyd Hayes | Fri, 20 Sep 2002 | 8:53am |
| Re: Brown Skuas off Carolinas | Dick Newell | Fri, 20 Sep 2002 | 9:32am |
| Re: Gull relationships | Jerry Tangren | Fri, 20 Sep 2002 | 9:41am |
| polish gull | Julian Hough | Fri, 20 Sep 2002 | 10:23am |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Odd Scoter
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 2002 7:00pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Greetings All
Today I had an odd White-winged type Scoter at Whidbey I., Washington. I
suspect it was just an imm male Am WW Scoter (deglandi). However, I wonder
about M.f. stejnegeri -- hence this post.
1: What caught my eye: the bill was black and yellow, not black and orange.
Actually, the yellow had a slight orange tone, but this was quite different
from the surrounding deglandi. The yellow was also more limited, as the bill
had a small black area at the tip.
2: the sides were black and did not contrast with the chest as in the
surrounding deglandi.
3: the white patch around the eye was identical to deglandi.
4: how I blew it: There was a knob at the base of the bill, but I failed to
compare it with the deglandi.
I got some video that I have to review, but there was enough of a breeze +
heat waves that I don't think it will be useful re: bill shape. I wondered if
this could be some odd imm deglandi, but of the 100 or so deglandi around,
none had this bill pattern.
I'd appreciate any insight.
Cheers
Steven Mlodinow
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Odd Scoter
From: Phil Davis <pdavis(AT)IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 2002 10:27pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Steve, et al. -
We had both forms fly in side-by-side and land in the water right in front
of us on Gambell, Alaska this past May. Unfortunately, none of our group
photographed it.
Your description sounds pretty good for stejnegeri. The color of the sides
and bill color seems to support the "Far Eastern" form. Too bad about the
knob ... a comparison of would probably have clinched it ... on stejnegeri,
the knob is much higher and differently shaped. Also, the circular nostril
"hole" was much larger and, from the side, was very noticeable (at close
range ).
I doubt if the following is diagnostic, but I did notice a very different
shape of the wing white patch between these two sitting birds. The
following is an extract from my trip report ...
"The white secondary patch of the two birds was noticeably different. On
deglandi, the patch was short and angled up from the rear of the bird
forward towards the bird's back. On the stejnegeri, the white patch was
longer (more than double the length of the deglandi, and angled from the
rear of the bird, forward and down toward the waterline".
While we are discussing these two forms, does anyone have any comments on
the wing patch shape as a field mark?
If White-winged and Velvet Scoter should be split, I believe the consensus
is that stejnegeri will probably stay with deglandi as White-winged ...
anyone know anything to the contrary?
Phil
At 22:00 09/15/2002 -0400, Steven Mlodinow wrote:
>Today I had an odd White-winged type Scoter at Whidbey I., Washington. I
>suspect it was just an imm male Am WW Scoter (deglandi). However, I wonder
>about M.f. stejnegeri -- hence this post.
>
>1: What caught my eye: the bill was black and yellow, not black and
>orange. Actually, the yellow had a slight orange tone, but this was quite
>different from the surrounding deglandi. The yellow was also more limited,
>as the bill had a small black area at the tip.
>
>2: the sides were black and did not contrast with the chest as in the
>surrounding deglandi.
>
>3: the white patch around the eye was identical to deglandi.
>
>4: how I blew it: There was a knob at the base of the bill, but I failed
>to compare it with the deglandi.
>
>I got some video that I have to review, but there was enough of a breeze +
>heat waves that I don't think it will be useful re: bill shape. I wondered
>if this could be some odd imm deglandi, but of the 100 or so deglandi
>around, none had this bill pattern.
>
>I'd appreciate any insight.
==================================
Phil Davis Davidsonville, Maryland USA
mailto:PDavis(AT)ix.netcom.com
==================================
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Fwd: Re: Odd Scoter
From: Phil Davis <pdavis(AT)IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 2002 11:35pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
To add on to my earlier message ... Here's some additional information
regarding the wing patch on sitting "Far Eastern" (stejnegeri) White-winged
Scoters ...
A few sources show the white wing patch in the secondaries as long and
downward (as our Gambell bird showed). You can see this portrayed in "A
Field Guide to the Birds of China" (MacKinnon, 2000) Plate 11.
There is also a web image that shows the same pattern, here ...
http://kn.naru.net/ver30/culture/kp/html/photo/big/gemsa-1.jpg
The only other field guides that I can find that show a stejnegeri sitting
on the water are: "Waterfowl" (Madge, 1988) and "A Field Guide to the Birds
of Japan" ( Wild Bird Society of Japan, 1982). These sources show the wing
patch on the adult birds as small and without any obvious upward or
downward direction. Other sources do not show the birds sitting on the
water or they show M. f. deglandi or the nominate "Velvet Scoter" (M. f.
fusca) and none of them show a long wing patch, much less one pointing
downward.
To expand my earlier question, does anyone know if the size and shape of
the wing patch on sitting birds can be diagnostic for stejnegeri or is the
size and shape of the patch related to other factors such as the held
position of the wing or the stage of moult in the primaries?
Thanks.
Phil
>Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 01:19:02 -0400
>To: SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM, NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
><BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
>From: Phil Davis <pdavis(AT)ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Odd Scoter
>
>Steve, et al. -
>
>We had both forms fly in side-by-side and land in the water right in front
>of us on Gambell, Alaska this past May. Unfortunately, none of our group
>photographed it.
>
>Your description sounds pretty good for stejnegeri. The color of the
>sides and bill color seems to support the "Far Eastern" form. Too bad
>about the knob ... a comparison of would probably have clinched it ... on
>stejnegeri, the knob is much higher and differently shaped. Also, the
>circular nostril "hole" was much larger and, from the side, was very
>noticeable (at close range ).
>
>I doubt if the following is diagnostic, but I did notice a very different
>shape of the wing white patch between these two sitting birds. The
>following is an extract from my trip report ...
>
>"The white secondary patch of the two birds was noticeably different. On
>deglandi, the patch was short and angled up from the rear of the bird
>forward towards the bird's back. On the stejnegeri, the white patch was
>longer (more than double the length of the deglandi, and angled from the
>rear of the bird, forward and down toward the waterline".
>
>While we are discussing these two forms, does anyone have any comments on
>the wing patch shape as a field mark?
>
>If White-winged and Velvet Scoter should be split, I believe the consensus
>is that stejnegeri will probably stay with deglandi as White-winged ...
>anyone know anything to the contrary?
>
>Phil
>
>
>
>At 22:00 09/15/2002 -0400, Steven Mlodinow wrote:
>>Today I had an odd White-winged type Scoter at Whidbey I., Washington. I
>>suspect it was just an imm male Am WW Scoter (deglandi). However, I
>>wonder about M.f. stejnegeri -- hence this post.
>>
>>1: What caught my eye: the bill was black and yellow, not black and
>>orange. Actually, the yellow had a slight orange tone, but this was quite
>>different from the surrounding deglandi. The yellow was also more
>>limited, as the bill had a small black area at the tip.
>>
>>2: the sides were black and did not contrast with the chest as in the
>>surrounding deglandi.
>>
>>3: the white patch around the eye was identical to deglandi.
>>
>>4: how I blew it: There was a knob at the base of the bill, but I failed
>>to compare it with the deglandi.
>>
>>I got some video that I have to review, but there was enough of a breeze
>>+ heat waves that I don't think it will be useful re: bill shape. I
>>wondered if this could be some odd imm deglandi, but of the 100 or so
>>deglandi around, none had this bill pattern.
>>
>>I'd appreciate any insight.
>
>==================================
>Phil Davis Davidsonville, Maryland USA
> mailto:PDavis(AT)ix.netcom.com
>==================================
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Another US first from Gambell
From: Julian Hough <Jrhough1(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 16 Sep 2002 5:20pm
Dear All,
I heard second-hand this weekend, that Paul Lehman apparently had a Spotted
Flycather at Gambell, St. Lawrence Island - his third "first" this autumn,
following hot on the heels of Willow Warbler and Lesser Whitethroat!
Julian Hough,
CT, USA
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: More from Gambell
From: Laurie Larson <llarson(AT)PRINCETON.EDU>
Date: 16 Sep 2002 6:00pm
Another update from Gambell:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> The incredible run of birds continues at Gambell.
> On Saturday, 14 Sept, I along with Dave Sonneborn found a Spotted
> Flycatcher (Muscicapa striata) in one of the boneyards, where it
> remained for many hours. This is another first North American record,
> and the third such first here this fall. This species is not known to
> nest any farther east than around Lake Baikal, so it is as rare or
> rarer than the Lesser Whitethroat of last week. I got good video of
> this bird as well.
>
> And then yesterday, the 15th, we had a rufous (hepatic)-morph Oriental
> Cuckoo. More good video.
>
> There was also a surprising mini-fallout of landbirds as well, given
> the late date at this latitude, including 8 record-late Arctic
> Warblers, 3 japonicus and a Red-thr pipit, 2 Gray-ch Thrushes, 2
> Yellow Wagtails, and a Short-eared Owl (rare). There's also an imm
> white Gyrfalcon hanging around the past few days. On Saturday there
> was a very lost Chipping Sparrow, but surprising given how far it is
> to its normal range, this is the fourth Chipping I've seen here in
> fall since 1998. Other birds of note include a group of 4 Horned Larks
> of the Asian race flava, and an Orange-crowned Warbler.
>
> I've now had four Sharp-tld Sandpipers, which is a very poor total (we
> normally get 40+ per fall), and the numbers of seabirds (other than
> Short-tld Shearwaters) off the Point is fewer than normal for this
> time of year (although there continues to be a sprinkling of Steller's
> and Spectacled eiders). But who's complaining....
>
> Paul Lehman
Laurie Larson .. llarson(AT)princeton.edu .. Princeton, NJ
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: [UKBN] Re: [surfbirdsnews]BOU Taxonomic Changes
(fwd)
From: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 17 Sep 2002 9:11am
HI:
In case anyone might be interested??
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:31:56 +0100
From: Andy Mabbett <andy(AT)pigsonthewing.org.uk>
To: ukbirdnet(AT)dcs.bbk.ac.uk
Subject: [UKBN] Re: [surfbirdsnews]BOU Taxonomic Changes
In message <008401c25e3d$f1b6cbe0$0200a8c0@bou>, Steve Dudley
<stevedudley(AT)btconnect.com> writes
>In the October issue of the British Ornithologists Union s journal,
>Ibis, the BOU publishes the latest taxonomic recommendations for
>British birds
[...]
>The following changes to the British List take immediate effect.
This is unclear; Do these recommendations take immediate effect; or is
it "recommended that they take immediate effect"? If the latter, who
decides whether to accept the recommendation?
Anyway, here they are again, with better formatting and proper
apostrophes ;-)
Anseriformes and Galliformes
move to the start of the list
Black-browed Albatross (Thalassarche melanophris)
note new generic name
Houbara Bustard (Chlamydotis undulata)
remove from Category A
Macqueen's Bustard (Chlamydotis macqueenii)
add to Category B (the only record since 31 December
1949 is currently under review) (split from Houbara
Bustard (C. undulata))
Whiskered Tern (Chlidonias hybrida)
note the correct spelling of the scientific name
Paddyfield Warbler (Acrocephalus agricola)
treat as monotypic
Eastern Olivacaeous Warbler (Hippolais pallida)
replaces Olivaceous Warbler (H. pallida) on Category A
Western Olivaceous Warbler (Hippolais opaca)
added to Category A (split from (H. pallida))
Sykes's Warbler (Hippolais rama)
add to Category A (split from (H. caligata))
Arctic Warbler (Phylloscopus borealis)
the British records should be treated as belonging to
the nominate race
Iberian Chiffchaff (Phylloscopus ibericus)
note the correct scientific name
Firecrest (Regulus ignicapilla)
note the correct spelling of the scientific name
Hooded Crow (Corvus cornix)
add to Category A (split from (C. corone))
Ovenbird (Seiurus aurocapilla)
note the correct spelling of the scientific name
Pine Bunting (Emberiza leucocephalos)
note the correct spelling of the scientific name
Cirl Bunting (Emberiza cirlus)
treat as monotypic
--
Andy Mabbett
Schrodinger died in 1961; his cat must be dead by now, too.
+-----------------------------------------------+
| To unsubscribe from ukbirdnet, send e-mail to |
| ukbirdnet-request(AT)dcs.bbk.ac.uk |
| with the single word |
| unsubscribe |
| in the body of the message. |
+-----------------------------------------------+
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Flesh-foot Shear bill color
From: "D. Heindel" <birdfish(AT)EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: 17 Sep 2002 10:30am
Hi all,
I have a question about the bill color on
Flesh-footed Shearwaters. Of the last 2 dozen
I've seen here in socal waters, the basal colored
part of the bill was pink in all but two. Those
two were distinctly yellowish colored basally.
Most pictures seem to show ones with the pink basal color,
but I seem to recall seeing some showing the yellowish color.
Is this just a random feature, or is related to
age, sex, a certain population, or what?
dumb questions unlimited,
Mitch
Torrance, CA
Mitch Heindel
birdfish(AT)earthlink.net
http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/pelagics
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Yellow-legged Gull ID & Taxonomy
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 17 Sep 2002 2:07pm
For the readers of British Birds and the participants of 6th International
Gull Meeting in particular but for others interested in gulls as well I have
made available a paper on Yellow-legged Gulls. You can down-load the text
and illustrations separately. All are in pdf-format. Please, have a look at
http://www.ncp.fi/lokitseura/IGM2/NORMAN.htm
Norman D.van Swelm
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
Date: 17 Sep 2002 2:53pm
The sensational and unexpected results of this identification conundrum can
be read here:
http://www.surfbirds.com/Features/skua-result.html
Dick Newell
Cambridge, UK
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 17 Sep 2002 3:09pm
>The sensational and unexpected results of this identification conundrum can
>be read here:
>http://www.surfbirds.com/Features/skua-result.html
>Dick Newell
>Cambridge, UK<
Congratulations Dick! May I recommend a grand new book just out for further
reading on the subject: A Complete Guide to Antarctic Wildlife by Shirihai &
Jarrett et al, ISBN 951-98947-0-5.
Norman
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 17 Sep 2002 8:02pm
Wow, Dick has dropped what appears to be a major bombshell!
I'm sure this news will stimulate renewed interested in the one or two claims
of
Brown Skua from North American waters, which I understand are still drifting in
limbo.
The dates of these two birds (fall and mid-winter) are interesting and
consistent
with a southern hemisphere breeder. Clearly birders off New England and the
Carolinas should be really careful about assuming that any skua in winter must
be
a Great Skua. I think many of the birds that get reported (and added to many
life
lists) are really not seen well enough to exclude Brown Skua.
One request for Dick: Could you summarize the DNA data for ID-Frontier readers?
Are the sequence differences between Great and Brown Skua used for the ID
absolute? Where the Scilly and Glamorgan birds perfect matches? How many
reference samples were used? Lastly, is there a formal publication in press
somewhere?
Fascinating story!
Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
http://www.oceanwanderers.com
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: [UKBN] Re: [surfbirdsnews]BOU Taxonomic
Changes (fwd)
From: Graham Etherington <etherington(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 18 Sep 2002 3:46am
Hi all,
Yes, as stated at: http://www.bou.org.uk/blchanges0902.pdf
"These recommendations of the Taxonomic Sub-committee of the BOU Records
Committtee will take effect immediately".
Cheers,
Graham Etherington
>From: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
>Reply-To: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
>To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
>Subject: [BIRDWG01] [UKBN] Re: [surfbirdsnews]BOU Taxonomic Changes (fwd)
>Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:08:49 -0700
>
>HI:
> In case anyone might be interested??
>
>Ian Paulsen
>Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
>ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
>A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
>"Rallidae all the way"
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:31:56 +0100
>From: Andy Mabbett <andy(AT)pigsonthewing.org.uk>
>To: ukbirdnet(AT)dcs.bbk.ac.uk
>Subject: [UKBN] Re: [surfbirdsnews]BOU Taxonomic Changes
>
>In message <008401c25e3d$f1b6cbe0$0200a8c0@bou>, Steve Dudley
><stevedudley(AT)btconnect.com> writes
> >In the October issue of the British Ornithologists Union s journal,
> >Ibis, the BOU publishes the latest taxonomic recommendations for
> >British birds
>
>[...]
>
> >The following changes to the British List take immediate effect.
>
>This is unclear; Do these recommendations take immediate effect; or is
>it "recommended that they take immediate effect"? If the latter, who
>decides whether to accept the recommendation?
>
>Anyway, here they are again, with better formatting and proper
>apostrophes ;-)
>
> Anseriformes and Galliformes
>
> move to the start of the list
>
> Black-browed Albatross (Thalassarche melanophris)
>
> note new generic name
>
> Houbara Bustard (Chlamydotis undulata)
>
> remove from Category A
>
> Macqueen's Bustard (Chlamydotis macqueenii)
>
> add to Category B (the only record since 31 December
> 1949 is currently under review) (split from Houbara
> Bustard (C. undulata))
>
> Whiskered Tern (Chlidonias hybrida)
>
> note the correct spelling of the scientific name
>
> Paddyfield Warbler (Acrocephalus agricola)
>
> treat as monotypic
>
> Eastern Olivacaeous Warbler (Hippolais pallida)
>
> replaces Olivaceous Warbler (H. pallida) on Category A
>
> Western Olivaceous Warbler (Hippolais opaca)
>
> added to Category A (split from (H. pallida))
>
> Sykes's Warbler (Hippolais rama)
>
> add to Category A (split from (H. caligata))
>
> Arctic Warbler (Phylloscopus borealis)
>
> the British records should be treated as belonging to
> the nominate race
>
> Iberian Chiffchaff (Phylloscopus ibericus)
>
> note the correct scientific name
>
> Firecrest (Regulus ignicapilla)
>
> note the correct spelling of the scientific name
>
> Hooded Crow (Corvus cornix)
>
> add to Category A (split from (C. corone))
>
> Ovenbird (Seiurus aurocapilla)
>
> note the correct spelling of the scientific name
>
> Pine Bunting (Emberiza leucocephalos)
>
> note the correct spelling of the scientific name
>
> Cirl Bunting (Emberiza cirlus)
>
> treat as monotypic
>
>--
>Andy Mabbett
>
> Schrodinger died in 1961; his cat must be dead by now, too.
>+-----------------------------------------------+
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>| ukbirdnet-request(AT)dcs.bbk.ac.uk |
>| with the single word |
>| unsubscribe |
>| in the body of the message. |
>+-----------------------------------------------+
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 18 Sep 2002 5:06am
[I posted a version of this message last night but it seems to have vanished
into the ether. Apologies for the duplication if it eventually surfaces!]
Dick Newell has really dropped a bombshell with this explosive new result! It
is easy to imagine that the one or two serious claims of Brown Skua in North
American waters will be revisited. As far as I know these are still drifting in
limbo.
The fall and mid-winter dates of the Scilles and Glamorgan birds are
interesting and suggest that birders off New England and Carolinas need to take
special care in identifying wintering skuas. I suspect many Great Skuas seen in
the northeast - and added to life lists as such - will not have been seen well-
enough to positively eliminate Brown Skua. As clearly illustrated by these two
examples, this is not an easy task! Perhaps 'skua sp.' should be applied
without stigma to many more offshore and landbased reports?
I have one request for Dick: Could you summarize for ID-Frontiers readers the
DNA sequence data that the final ID is based on? Are the sequence differences
between Great Skua and Brown Skua absolute? Where both birds perfect matches to
the latter? How many reference specimens were examined to establish the
sequence criteria? Lastly, is a formal paper describing the study in press
somewhere?
Fantastic stuff! A great detective story.
Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
http://www.oceanwanderers.com
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
Date: 18 Sep 2002 11:49am
On 18/9/02 12:01 AM, "Angus Wilson" <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU> wrote:
> One request for Dick: Could you summarize the DNA data for ID-Frontier
> readers?
> Are the sequence differences between Great and Brown Skua used for the ID
> absolute? Where the Scilly and Glamorgan birds perfect matches? How many
> reference samples were used? Lastly, is there a formal publication in press
> somewhere?
>
I did not have anything to do with the DNA analysis, the credit for that
goes to Glasgow University - I just made sure that a DNA sample was taken of
these 2 birds, as I guessed (rightly it turned out) that these 2 birds were
very important to advance our understanding of skua id in the north
Atlantic, even if, as I expected, they had turned out to be Great or South
Polar Skuas. These 2 birds have thrown up rather more questions than
answers.
A paper is in preparation for a suitable scientific journal for publication
asap. No more can be said now. Just take a good hard look at the next
catharacta you see.
I should say at this point, in my requests for opinions on these birds on
ID-frontiers, a number of people replied (thank you all). Some were sure we
had Bonxies, others sure we had South Polars and yet others who just were
not sure. Only one person may have given the right answer in the case of the
Scilly Skua, when he suggested Brown Skua C. lonnbergi - Martin Renner of
California - congratulations Martin!
Dick Newell
Cambridge, UK
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: The Muscicapa flycatcher on Gambell
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 18 Sep 2002 12:55pm
I am little surprised that there has been no discussion on ID-Frontiers of the
Spotted Flycatcher (Muscicapa striata) identified at Gambell, St. Lawrence
Island
by Paul Lehman and David Sonneborn. This strikes me as a really unexpected
occurrence and thus all the more remarkable.
I claim no expertise in this area, but was under the impression that Spotted
Flycatcher is a Western and Central Palearctic breeder. As mentioned in one of
the earlier posts, the breeding range does not extend much beyond Lake Baikal.
It
seems likely that most European birds winter in Africa but perhaps the central
Asia breeders go to the Indian Subcontinent (a guess on my part)? To the best
of
my knowledge Spotted Flycatcher has not been recorded in Hong Kong or Japan and
I
wonder if there are any established records from eastern parts of Russia or
China?
Obviously Lake Baikal is a very long way from Gambell. In this sense, the
record
is different from most other Asiatic strays to western Alaska, which tend to
breed on the adjacent coasts of Siberia and Kamchatcka (e.g. Great Spotted
Woodpecker, Hawfinch etc) or are overshoots from further south (e.g. Jungle
Nightjar, Chinese Pond Heron etc). One possible explanation is a reverse
migrant:
a central asian bird that thinks it is heading for its normal wintering grounds
in India (or Africa) but instead goes in exactly the opposite direction. Thus
Gambell might fall in the predicted 'vagrancy shadow' for the eastern most
subspecies of Spotted Flycatcher. This is therefore a true vagrant, akin to
other
major North American rarities such as Brown-chested Martin.
Given that this list is an identification forum, it seems appropriate to wonder
about the identification. I know nothing about the 4 subspecies of Spotted
Flycatcher that breed outside of Europe but I am aware of several similar
'uniformly brown' Muscicapa flycatchers that occur in eastern Asia. It will be
nice to know how these very competent observers came to their dramatic
conclusion. Obviously it is difficult to have any discussion until Paul and
David
return to 'civilization'. Do those who relayed the initial messages have more
details of the bird itself? I certainly look forward to seeing photos and/or
video when the lucky finders return.
Bottom line: If the identification holds up, I think this is an even more
spectacular discovery than simply yet another first for North America! Similar
arguments may apply to the other biggies, the Lesser Whitethroat and the Willow
Warbler. Again it will be interesting to learn the subspecies involved. It may
no
longer be sufficient for birders going to western Alaska in the fall to bring
along 'Field Guide to the Birds of Japan' but instead lug a copy of 'Birds of
India and the Himalayas'!
Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
http://www.oceanwanderers.com
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: The Muscicapa flycatcher on Gambell
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 18 Sep 2002 2:04pm
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this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
I don't find the occurrence of a Spotted Flycathcer that surprising for a
number of reasons:
1/ Fall migration is when most of the really 'unexpected' vagrant records
occur. Given the relative lack of birding in W. Alaska in fall, I would
guess eventually dozens of new species will be found especially if the
warming trend up there enables passerines to find food later in fall (and
therefore get even more off course!). The reason why most of the previous
records of asiatic species in Alaska are from relatively near parts of Asia
is that is what tends to happen in spring vagrancy. I agree with the reverse
migration hypothesis and think will result in many more species occurring in
Alaska.
2/ There is already a well-established pattern of vagrants from far to the
west occurring in Japan - Wood Warbler, Pied Flycathcher, Black-headed
Bunting, Eurasian Redstart, ... If these species can make it as far as
Japan, I think they or ones with similar range could make it to Alaska (in
fact I think Wood Warbler may have already - Shemya?)
3/ If one looks at vagrancy of E. Siberian breeders to Britain, one would
imagine than any Eurasian species that extends east of the Urals should
likely occur as a vagrant to far eastern Asia. Furthermore Northerly
locations often attract lots of good birds. Just think of Fair Isle.
4/ Even places like Japan have relatively little coverage. In addition, E.
Asia is a wet area with lots of vegetation which makes finding birds tough.
Add in id problems (how many people know how to id an immature Golden Oriole
from an immature Black-naped Oriole for example), and you can assume that
99% of the vagrants to this area are never seen or if they are, might easily
be misidentified as commoner species.
-----Original Message-----
From: Angus Wilson [mailto:wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 12:56 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Subject: [BIRDWG01] The Muscicapa flycatcher on Gambell
I am little surprised that there has been no discussion on ID-Frontiers of
the
Spotted Flycatcher (Muscicapa striata) identified at Gambell, St. Lawrence
Island
by Paul Lehman and David Sonneborn. This strikes me as a really unexpected
occurrence and thus all the more remarkable.
I claim no expertise in this area, but was under the impression that Spotted
Flycatcher is a Western and Central Palearctic breeder. As mentioned in one
of
the earlier posts, the breeding range does not extend much beyond Lake
Baikal. It
seems likely that most European birds winter in Africa but perhaps the
central
Asia breeders go to the Indian Subcontinent (a guess on my part)? To the
best of
my knowledge Spotted Flycatcher has not been recorded in Hong Kong or Japan
and I
wonder if there are any established records from eastern parts of Russia or
China?
Obviously Lake Baikal is a very long way from Gambell. In this sense, the
record
is different from most other Asiatic strays to western Alaska, which tend to
breed on the adjacent coasts of Siberia and Kamchatcka (e.g. Great Spotted
Woodpecker, Hawfinch etc) or are overshoots from further south (e.g. Jungle
Nightjar, Chinese Pond Heron etc). One possible explanation is a reverse
migrant:
a central asian bird that thinks it is heading for its normal wintering
grounds
in India (or Africa) but instead goes in exactly the opposite direction.
Thus
Gambell might fall in the predicted 'vagrancy shadow' for the eastern most
subspecies of Spotted Flycatcher. This is therefore a true vagrant, akin to
other
major North American rarities such as Brown-chested Martin.
Given that this list is an identification forum, it seems appropriate to
wonder
about the identification. I know nothing about the 4 subspecies of Spotted
Flycatcher that breed outside of Europe but I am aware of several similar
'uniformly brown' Muscicapa flycatchers that occur in eastern Asia. It will
be
nice to know how these very competent observers came to their dramatic
conclusion. Obviously it is difficult to have any discussion until Paul and
David
return to 'civilization'. Do those who relayed the initial messages have
more
details of the bird itself? I certainly look forward to seeing photos and/or
video when the lucky finders return.
Bottom line: If the identification holds up, I think this is an even more
spectacular discovery than simply yet another first for North America!
Similar
arguments may apply to the other biggies, the Lesser Whitethroat and the
Willow
Warbler. Again it will be interesting to learn the subspecies involved. It
may no
longer be sufficient for birders going to western Alaska in the fall to
bring
along 'Field Guide to the Birds of Japan' but instead lug a copy of 'Birds
of
India and the Himalayas'!
Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
http://www.oceanwanderers.com
-------------------------------------------------
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----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: The Muscicapa flycatcher on Gambell [From
Paul Lehman]
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 18 Sep 2002 3:20pm
Angus: Perhaps you could post the following on ID Frontiers, or wherever these
discussions have been taking place to date?
Greetings from Gambell. I saw your and Nick Lethaby's postings on the Spotted
Flycatcher. I agree with Nick's assessment of fall vagrancy potential and how
such a bird that breeds only as far east as Lake Baikal but then heads way back
west before turning south to go to Africa might well turn up here as a
180-degree
mirror-image vagrant here in western Alaska.
As I posted earlier, I have taken excellent video of all three of the North
American firsts I've had out here so far this fall, plus of many of the other
goodies I've had as well. I have already made copies onto VCR tapes of many of
the best stuff and mailed several copies out to Thede Tobish, folks at the
WINGS
office, etc, so that I don't have the only copies here at Gambell for weeks on
end!! Everyone likes the Willow Warbler and of course the Lesser Whitethroat,
and
they should be receiving the Spotted Fly videos in the next couple days or so.
I did not post a description of the Spotted Flycatcher in my earlier postings,
but here is a short version: a Muscicapa that was dull pale gray above, with
distinct, well defined dark streaks on the forehead and forecrown, a dull,
pale,
circular eyering that was NOT white, NO pale in lores at all, and a dark eye,
all
combining to give the face a relatively blank look except for the eye. The bill
was proportionately large and long and was totally dark, with no pale on the
lower mandible at all. Throat whitish, with a dusky submoutachial stripe.
Breast
had dusky streaks and a dull tan-gray wash; remainder of underparts whitish and
unmarked. Flanks unmarked except for a faint buff wash along inner edge often
concealed by edge of folded wing. Wing had bold white edge to greater coverts
forming a thin but bold wingbar, and there were bold white edgings too all the
secondaries. Flicked tail up periodically, and on a good number of occasions
the
bird would get up off the ground to a height of 3 or 4 feet and h
Hope this is of some use.
Rufous-morph Oriental Cuckoo here on Sunday, along with a ice number of late
migrants. Last three days have had north winds, but it is supposed to go west
again tonight
Paul Lehman
-------------------------------------------------
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Subject: Re: BIRDWG01 Digest - 17 Sep 2002 to 18 Sep 2002
(#2002-195)
From: Stichting JOM <jom(AT)JOM.NL>
Date: 19 Sep 2002 12:27am
I would like to unsubscribe from this automatic digest.
Since I can't find a unsubscribe-link I do this by mail
kind regards
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Automatic digest
processor
Sent: donderdag 19 september 2002 9:01
To: Recipients of BIRDWG01 digests
Subject: BIRDWG01 Digest - 17 Sep 2002 to 18 Sep 2002 (#2002-195)
There are 7 messages totalling 674 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results (3)
2. [UKBN] Re: [surfbirdsnews]BOU Taxonomic Changes (fwd)
3. The Muscicapa flycatcher on Gambell (2)
4. The Muscicapa flycatcher on Gambell [From Paul Lehman]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 19:01:38 -0400
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Subject: The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results
Wow, Dick has dropped what appears to be a major bombshell!
I'm sure this news will stimulate renewed interested in the one or two
claims of
Brown Skua from North American waters, which I understand are still drifting
in
limbo.
The dates of these two birds (fall and mid-winter) are interesting and
consistent
with a southern hemisphere breeder. Clearly birders off New England and the
Carolinas should be really careful about assuming that any skua in winter
must be
a Great Skua. I think many of the birds that get reported (and added to many
life
lists) are really not seen well enough to exclude Brown Skua.
One request for Dick: Could you summarize the DNA data for ID-Frontier
readers?
Are the sequence differences between Great and Brown Skua used for the ID
absolute? Where the Scilly and Glamorgan birds perfect matches? How many
reference samples were used? Lastly, is there a formal publication in press
somewhere?
Fascinating story!
Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
http://www.oceanwanderers.com
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 03:45:58 -0700
From: Graham Etherington <etherington(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: [UKBN] Re: [surfbirdsnews]BOU Taxonomic Changes (fwd)
Hi all,
Yes, as stated at: http://www.bou.org.uk/blchanges0902.pdf
"These recommendations of the Taxonomic Sub-committee of the BOU Records
Committtee will take effect immediately".
Cheers,
Graham Etherington
>From: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
>Reply-To: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
>To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
>Subject: [BIRDWG01] [UKBN] Re: [surfbirdsnews]BOU Taxonomic Changes (fwd)
>Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:08:49 -0700
>
>HI:
> In case anyone might be interested??
>
>Ian Paulsen
>Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
>ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
>A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
>"Rallidae all the way"
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:31:56 +0100
>From: Andy Mabbett <andy(AT)pigsonthewing.org.uk>
>To: ukbirdnet(AT)dcs.bbk.ac.uk
>Subject: [UKBN] Re: [surfbirdsnews]BOU Taxonomic Changes
>
>In message <008401c25e3d$f1b6cbe0$0200a8c0@bou>, Steve Dudley
><stevedudley(AT)btconnect.com> writes
> >In the October issue of the British Ornithologists Union s journal,
> >Ibis, the BOU publishes the latest taxonomic recommendations for
> >British birds
>
>[...]
>
> >The following changes to the British List take immediate effect.
>
>This is unclear; Do these recommendations take immediate effect; or is
>it "recommended that they take immediate effect"? If the latter, who
>decides whether to accept the recommendation?
>
>Anyway, here they are again, with better formatting and proper
>apostrophes ;-)
>
> Anseriformes and Galliformes
>
> move to the start of the list
>
> Black-browed Albatross (Thalassarche melanophris)
>
> note new generic name
>
> Houbara Bustard (Chlamydotis undulata)
>
> remove from Category A
>
> Macqueen's Bustard (Chlamydotis macqueenii)
>
> add to Category B (the only record since 31 December
> 1949 is currently under review) (split from Houbara
> Bustard (C. undulata))
>
> Whiskered Tern (Chlidonias hybrida)
>
> note the correct spelling of the scientific name
>
> Paddyfield Warbler (Acrocephalus agricola)
>
> treat as monotypic
>
> Eastern Olivacaeous Warbler (Hippolais pallida)
>
> replaces Olivaceous Warbler (H. pallida) on Category A
>
> Western Olivaceous Warbler (Hippolais opaca)
>
> added to Category A (split from (H. pallida))
>
> Sykes's Warbler (Hippolais rama)
>
> add to Category A (split from (H. caligata))
>
> Arctic Warbler (Phylloscopus borealis)
>
> the British records should be treated as belonging to
> the nominate race
>
> Iberian Chiffchaff (Phylloscopus ibericus)
>
> note the correct scientific name
>
> Firecrest (Regulus ignicapilla)
>
> note the correct spelling of the scientific name
>
> Hooded Crow (Corvus cornix)
>
> add to Category A (split from (C. corone))
>
> Ovenbird (Seiurus aurocapilla)
>
> note the correct spelling of the scientific name
>
> Pine Bunting (Emberiza leucocephalos)
>
> note the correct spelling of the scientific name
>
> Cirl Bunting (Emberiza cirlus)
>
> treat as monotypic
>
>--
>Andy Mabbett
>
> Schrodinger died in 1961; his cat must be dead by now, too.
>+-----------------------------------------------+
>| To unsubscribe from ukbirdnet, send e-mail to |
>| ukbirdnet-request(AT)dcs.bbk.ac.uk |
>| with the single word |
>| unsubscribe |
>| in the body of the message. |
>+-----------------------------------------------+
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 08:06:11 -0400
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Subject: The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results
[I posted a version of this message last night but it seems to have vanished
into the ether. Apologies for the duplication if it eventually surfaces!]
Dick Newell has really dropped a bombshell with this explosive new result!
It
is easy to imagine that the one or two serious claims of Brown Skua in North
American waters will be revisited. As far as I know these are still drifting
in
limbo.
The fall and mid-winter dates of the Scilles and Glamorgan birds are
interesting and suggest that birders off New England and Carolinas need to
take
special care in identifying wintering skuas. I suspect many Great Skuas seen
in
the northeast - and added to life lists as such - will not have been seen
well-
enough to positively eliminate Brown Skua. As clearly illustrated by these
two
examples, this is not an easy task! Perhaps 'skua sp.' should be applied
without stigma to many more offshore and landbased reports?
I have one request for Dick: Could you summarize for ID-Frontiers readers
the
DNA sequence data that the final ID is based on? Are the sequence
differences
between Great Skua and Brown Skua absolute? Where both birds perfect matches
to
the latter? How many reference specimens were examined to establish the
sequence criteria? Lastly, is a formal paper describing the study in press
somewhere?
Fantastic stuff! A great detective story.
Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
http://www.oceanwanderers.com
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:48:58 +0100
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
Subject: Re: The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results
On 18/9/02 12:01 AM, "Angus Wilson" <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU> wrote:
> One request for Dick: Could you summarize the DNA data for ID-Frontier
> readers?
> Are the sequence differences between Great and Brown Skua used for the ID
> absolute? Where the Scilly and Glamorgan birds perfect matches? How many
> reference samples were used? Lastly, is there a formal publication in
press
> somewhere?
>
I did not have anything to do with the DNA analysis, the credit for that
goes to Glasgow University - I just made sure that a DNA sample was taken of
these 2 birds, as I guessed (rightly it turned out) that these 2 birds were
very important to advance our understanding of skua id in the north
Atlantic, even if, as I expected, they had turned out to be Great or South
Polar Skuas. These 2 birds have thrown up rather more questions than
answers.
A paper is in preparation for a suitable scientific journal for publication
asap. No more can be said now. Just take a good hard look at the next
catharacta you see.
I should say at this point, in my requests for opinions on these birds on
ID-frontiers, a number of people replied (thank you all). Some were sure we
had Bonxies, others sure we had South Polars and yet others who just were
not sure. Only one person may have given the right answer in the case of the
Scilly Skua, when he suggested Brown Skua C. lonnbergi - Martin Renner of
California - congratulations Martin!
Dick Newell
Cambridge, UK
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 15:55:48 -0400
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Subject: The Muscicapa flycatcher on Gambell
I am little surprised that there has been no discussion on ID-Frontiers of
the
Spotted Flycatcher (Muscicapa striata) identified at Gambell, St. Lawrence
Island
by Paul Lehman and David Sonneborn. This strikes me as a really unexpected
occurrence and thus all the more remarkable.
I claim no expertise in this area, but was under the impression that Spotted
Flycatcher is a Western and Central Palearctic breeder. As mentioned in one
of
the earlier posts, the breeding range does not extend much beyond Lake
Baikal. It
seems likely that most European birds winter in Africa but perhaps the
central
Asia breeders go to the Indian Subcontinent (a guess on my part)? To the
best of
my knowledge Spotted Flycatcher has not been recorded in Hong Kong or Japan
and I
wonder if there are any established records from eastern parts of Russia or
China?
Obviously Lake Baikal is a very long way from Gambell. In this sense, the
record
is different from most other Asiatic strays to western Alaska, which tend to
breed on the adjacent coasts of Siberia and Kamchatcka (e.g. Great Spotted
Woodpecker, Hawfinch etc) or are overshoots from further south (e.g. Jungle
Nightjar, Chinese Pond Heron etc). One possible explanation is a reverse
migrant:
a central asian bird that thinks it is heading for its normal wintering
grounds
in India (or Africa) but instead goes in exactly the opposite direction.
Thus
Gambell might fall in the predicted 'vagrancy shadow' for the eastern most
subspecies of Spotted Flycatcher. This is therefore a true vagrant, akin to
other
major North American rarities such as Brown-chested Martin.
Given that this list is an identification forum, it seems appropriate to
wonder
about the identification. I know nothing about the 4 subspecies of Spotted
Flycatcher that breed outside of Europe but I am aware of several similar
'uniformly brown' Muscicapa flycatchers that occur in eastern Asia. It will
be
nice to know how these very competent observers came to their dramatic
conclusion. Obviously it is difficult to have any discussion until Paul and
David
return to 'civilization'. Do those who relayed the initial messages have
more
details of the bird itself? I certainly look forward to seeing photos and/or
video when the lucky finders return.
Bottom line: If the identification holds up, I think this is an even more
spectacular discovery than simply yet another first for North America!
Similar
arguments may apply to the other biggies, the Lesser Whitethroat and the
Willow
Warbler. Again it will be interesting to learn the subspecies involved. It
may no
longer be sufficient for birders going to western Alaska in the fall to
bring
along 'Field Guide to the Birds of Japan' but instead lug a copy of 'Birds
of
India and the Himalayas'!
Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
http://www.oceanwanderers.com
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:04:31 -0500
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Subject: Re: The Muscicapa flycatcher on Gambell
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C25F56.FBFF1660
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
I don't find the occurrence of a Spotted Flycathcer that surprising for a
number of reasons:
1/ Fall migration is when most of the really 'unexpected' vagrant records
occur. Given the relative lack of birding in W. Alaska in fall, I would
guess eventually dozens of new species will be found especially if the
warming trend up there enables passerines to find food later in fall (and
therefore get even more off course!). The reason why most of the previous
records of asiatic species in Alaska are from relatively near parts of Asia
is that is what tends to happen in spring vagrancy. I agree with the reverse
migration hypothesis and think will result in many more species occurring in
Alaska.
2/ There is already a well-established pattern of vagrants from far to the
west occurring in Japan - Wood Warbler, Pied Flycathcher, Black-headed
Bunting, Eurasian Redstart, ... If these species can make it as far as
Japan, I think they or ones with similar range could make it to Alaska (in
fact I think Wood Warbler may have already - Shemya?)
3/ If one looks at vagrancy of E. Siberian breeders to Britain, one would
imagine than any Eurasian species that extends east of the Urals should
likely occur as a vagrant to far eastern Asia. Furthermore Northerly
locations often attract lots of good birds. Just think of Fair Isle.
4/ Even places like Japan have relatively little coverage. In addition, E.
Asia is a wet area with lots of vegetation which makes finding birds tough.
Add in id problems (how many people know how to id an immature Golden Oriole
from an immature Black-naped Oriole for example), and you can assume that
99% of the vagrants to this area are never seen or if they are, might easily
be misidentified as commoner species.
-----Original Message-----
From: Angus Wilson [mailto:wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 12:56 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Subject: [BIRDWG01] The Muscicapa flycatcher on Gambell
I am little surprised that there has been no discussion on ID-Frontiers of
the
Spotted Flycatcher (Muscicapa striata) identified at Gambell, St. Lawrence
Island
by Paul Lehman and David Sonneborn. This strikes me as a really unexpected
occurrence and thus all the more remarkable.
I claim no expertise in this area, but was under the impression that Spotted
Flycatcher is a Western and Central Palearctic breeder. As mentioned in one
of
the earlier posts, the breeding range does not extend much beyond Lake
Baikal. It
seems likely that most European birds winter in Africa but perhaps the
central
Asia breeders go to the Indian Subcontinent (a guess on my part)? To the
best of
my knowledge Spotted Flycatcher has not been recorded in Hong Kong or Japan
and I
wonder if there are any established records from eastern parts of Russia or
China?
Obviously Lake Baikal is a very long way from Gambell. In this sense, the
record
is different from most other Asiatic strays to western Alaska, which tend to
breed on the adjacent coasts of Siberia and Kamchatcka (e.g. Great Spotted
Woodpecker, Hawfinch etc) or are overshoots from further south (e.g. Jungle
Nightjar, Chinese Pond Heron etc). One possible explanation is a reverse
migrant:
a central asian bird that thinks it is heading for its normal wintering
grounds
in India (or Africa) but instead goes in exactly the opposite direction.
Thus
Gambell might fall in the predicted 'vagrancy shadow' for the eastern most
subspecies of Spotted Flycatcher. This is therefore a true vagrant, akin to
other
major North American rarities such as Brown-chested Martin.
Given that this list is an identification forum, it seems appropriate to
wonder
about the identification. I know nothing about the 4 subspecies of Spotted
Flycatcher that breed outside of Europe but I am aware of several similar
'uniformly brown' Muscicapa flycatchers that occur in eastern Asia. It will
be
nice to know how these very competent observers came to their dramatic
conclusion. Obviously it is difficult to have any discussion until Paul and
David
return to 'civilization'. Do those who relayed the initial messages have
more
details of the bird itself? I certainly look forward to seeing photos and/or
video when the lucky finders return.
Bottom line: If the identification holds up, I think this is an even more
spectacular discovery than simply yet another first for North America!
Similar
arguments may apply to the other biggies, the Lesser Whitethroat and the
Willow
Warbler. Again it will be interesting to learn the subspecies involved. It
may no
longer be sufficient for birders going to western Alaska in the fall to
bring
along 'Field Guide to the Birds of Japan' but instead lug a copy of 'Birds
of
India and the Himalayas'!
Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
http://www.oceanwanderers.com
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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:20:00 -0400
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Muscicapa flycatcher on Gambell [From Paul Lehman]
Angus: Perhaps you could post the following on ID Frontiers, or wherever
these
discussions have been taking place to date?
Greetings from Gambell. I saw your and Nick Lethaby's postings on the
Spotted
Flycatcher. I agree with Nick's assessment of fall vagrancy potential and
how
such a bird that breeds only as far east as Lake Baikal but then heads way
back
west before turning south to go to Africa might well turn up here as a
180-degree
mirror-image vagrant here in western Alaska.
As I posted earlier, I have taken excellent video of all three of the North
American firsts I've had out here so far this fall, plus of many of the
other
goodies I've had as well. I have already made copies onto VCR tapes of many
of
the best stuff and mailed several copies out to Thede Tobish, folks at the
WINGS
office, etc, so that I don't have the only copies here at Gambell for weeks
on
end!! Everyone likes the Willow Warbler and of course the Lesser
Whitethroat, and
they should be receiving the Spotted Fly videos in the next couple days or
so.
I did not post a description of the Spotted Flycatcher in my earlier
postings,
but here is a short version: a Muscicapa that was dull pale gray above,
with
distinct, well defined dark streaks on the forehead and forecrown, a dull,
pale,
circular eyering that was NOT white, NO pale in lores at all, and a dark
eye, all
combining to give the face a relatively blank look except for the eye. The
bill
was proportionately large and long and was totally dark, with no pale on the
lower mandible at all. Throat whitish, with a dusky submoutachial stripe.
Breast
had dusky streaks and a dull tan-gray wash; remainder of underparts whitish
and
unmarked. Flanks unmarked except for a faint buff wash along inner edge
often
concealed by edge of folded wing. Wing had bold white edge to greater
coverts
forming a thin but bold wingbar, and there were bold white edgings too all
the
secondaries. Flicked tail up periodically, and on a good number of occasions
the
bird would get up off the ground to a height of 3 or 4 feet and h
Hope this is of some use.
Rufous-morph Oriental Cuckoo here on Sunday, along with a ice number of late
migrants. Last three days have had north winds, but it is supposed to go
west
again tonight
Paul Lehman
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End of BIRDWG01 Digest - 17 Sep 2002 to 18 Sep 2002 (#2002-195)
***************************************************************
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: unsubscribe
From: Granville Carey <graney(AT)ONE.NET>
Date: 19 Sep 2002 2:00am
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
unsubscribe =20
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results
From: Graham Etherington <etherington(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 19 Sep 2002 2:50am
Dear Dick, Angus, and all,
Below is the copy of an email that I recieved (along with my original email
to Dick) from Stuart Bearhop, who carried out the molecular work on the
skuas. I guess we will have to wait a (short) while to look at the
nitty-gritty of the DNA analysis.
In the mean while - anyone for winter pelagics.....???!!
Graham Etherington
**********************************************************
Graham & Martin
We are at this moment drafting a short piece, probably to be sent to Ibis,
therefore unfortunately we cannot give you any more info at the moment. We
have obviously considered the hybrid question and this will also be covered
in the article. We have spoken to editorial board and hope that it should
get fast tracked and into the public domain ASAP.
Many thanks for your interest
Stuart
Dr Stuart Bearhop
Research Fellow
Graham Kerr Building
Division of Environmental and Evolutionary Biology
University of Glasgow
Glasgow G12 8QQ
UK
Dear Dick,
As part of the Surfbird team and the author of Ornithonews in Birding World,
I have been asked to review your piece on the Brown Skua article on
Surfbirds today.
I've often wondered if these birds may turn up in British waters, but had to
dismiss the idea of ever identifying one due the 'patchiness' of skua id
knowledge. These are surely great findings and a big contribution to British
natural history.
I have one question though. You state in the article that the "genetic
analyses are conclusive". I wonder if you might tell me what the genetic
analyses consisted of. What type of genes were sequenced, or was it
micro-satellites, or maybe some other molecular technique?
I look forward to hearing from you soon,
Best wishes,
Graham Etherington
Computational Biology Research,
The Genome Centre,
John Innes Centre,
Norwich Research Park,
Norwich NR4 7UH, UK.
(+44) (0)1603 450833
>From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
>Reply-To: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
>To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
>Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] The Scilly and Glamorgan Skua DNA Results
>Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:48:58 +0100
>
>On 18/9/02 12:01 AM, "Angus Wilson" <wilsoa02(AT)ENDEAVOR.MED.NYU.EDU> wrote:
>
>
> > One request for Dick: Could you summarize the DNA data for ID-Frontier
> > readers?
> > Are the sequence differences between Great and Brown Skua used for the
>ID
> > absolute? Where the Scilly and Glamorgan birds perfect matches? How many
> > reference samples were used? Lastly, is there a formal publication in
>press
> > somewhere?
> >
>
>I did not have anything to do with the DNA analysis, the credit for that
>goes to Glasgow University - I just made sure that a DNA sample was taken
>of
>these 2 birds, as I guessed (rightly it turned out) that these 2 birds were
>very important to advance our understanding of skua id in the north
>Atlantic, even if, as I expected, they had turned out to be Great or South
>Polar Skuas. These 2 birds have thrown up rather more questions than
>answers.
>A paper is in preparation for a suitable scientific journal for publication
>asap. No more can be said now. Just take a good hard look at the next
>catharacta you see.
>I should say at this point, in my requests for opinions on these birds on
>ID-frontiers, a number of people replied (thank you all). Some were sure we
>had Bonxies, others sure we had South Polars and yet others who just were
>not sure. Only one person may have given the right answer in the case of
>the
>Scilly Skua, when he suggested Brown Skua C. lonnbergi - Martin Renner of
>California - congratulations Martin!
>Dick Newell
>Cambridge, UK
Graham Etherington
St. Johns Villa,
Park Lane,
Norwich NR2 2EL,
England
Tel: (+44)07787 118809 (mobile) or 01603 620058(home)
http://groups.msn.com/GrahamEtherington/home.htm
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in
Poland
From: Jacek Betleja <betleja(AT)URANOS.CTO.US.EDU.PL>
Date: 19 Sep 2002 5:25am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi all,
I would like to show my best photos of mystery gull observed few weeks ago
at Polish Baltic coast.
www.czaplon.most.org.pl/g.htm
It will be interesting for me and other gullwatchers in Poland to receive
any comments regarding the identity of this bird .
Good birding!!
-------------------------------------------------------
Jacek Betleja
Dept of Natural History, Upper Silesian Museum
pl. Sobieskiego 2, 41-902 Bytom, POLAND
e-mail: betleja(AT)us.edu.pl
-------------------------------------------------------
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in
Poland
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 19 Sep 2002 12:01pm
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----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Jacek wrote:I would like to show my best photos of mystery gull =
observed few weeks ago at Polish Baltic coast.
=20
www.czaplon.most.org.pl/g.htm=20
=20
It will be interesting for me and other gullwatchers in Poland to =
receive any comments regarding the identity of this bird .<
=20
=20
The tail is quite dark but this type of gull can be found among =
European Herring Gulls. Can you show photo's of the other gulls such as =
the white-headed individual in photo 4?
Norman
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Brown Skuas off Carolinas
From: Martin <martin.go(AT)VIRGIN.NET>
Date: 19 Sep 2002 1:14pm
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----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Dear birders
I was certainly caught offguard with the 2 Brown Skuas in Britain news! =
I have to admit neither ever looked like Great Skuas to me..but I was =
always angling on the South Polar line.
However I was intrigued by the appearance of the 'Great Skuas' pictured =
on Brian Pattesons fantastic website www.patteson.com and suggested to =
several people, a few years ago I think, including Brian, that these =
birds looked very much more like Brown Skuas (in my limited =
understanding) and certainly not as I would have expected Great Skuas to =
appear albeit in winter
birders may well like to visit the website and see what I mean. Now that =
a paradigm shift appears to be taking place in our understanding..some =
of these look like pretty obvious Brown Skuas to me!
exciting days
Cheers Martin Garner
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Subject: Re: White-headed Woodpecker in Montana?
From: Michael Cooper <mcooper(AT)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US>
Date: 19 Sep 2002 1:28pm
In mid August I drove the Beartooth Hwy (which straddles the border of
Montana and Wyoming) and twice I had birds fly overhead that appeared to be
White-headed Woodpeckers. I've always thought of them as being restricted
to the far west, and when I checked my NG 3rd ed. and saw the range extend
only into central Idaho, I started to wonder what I may have seen-
White-headed Woodpeckers, after all, are pretty distinctive. However, when
I got back home I checked Sibley, and sure enough, there is a dot right on
the border in the area of the Beartooth. To those of you who are familiar
with that area- Is this a well known disjunct population? Does anyone know
if the new NG guide will reflect this population?
I must admit that while I liked the Sibley guide when it came out, I was not
'knocked out' by it as many other folks seemed to be. Now that it has
apparently saved me a life bird I think I like it a little more!
Mike Cooper
Ridge, LI, NY
mcooper(AT)suffolk.lib.ny.us
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in
Poland
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
Date: 19 Sep 2002 2:19pm
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
> Re:
> www.czaplon.most.org.pl/g.htm <http://www.czaplon.most.org.pl/g.htm>
>=20
There are too many things in this bird that conspire against it being
smithsonianus imho:
1. The breast and underparts are not smooth mocha/chocolate
2. The tertials are not solid enough
3. Greater coverts are too well patterned, not dark enough
4. For this age (juvenile) the rump contrast is too much =AD it=B9s too pale
5. The tail bases of the outer primaries are clearly white
Quite possibly, if you looked at enough smithsonianus, you would find each
one of these features in one bird or another, but in combination in one
bird, I think you have argentatus.
Dick
Cambridge, UK
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Subject: juv RN vs YB Sapsuckers
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 19 Sep 2002 3:57pm
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Greetings All
I saw a juv YB Sapsucker in e.c. Oregon about ten days ago. As the bird was
somewhat early for this species in the Pac NW, I decided to do a bit of
research at the Univ of WA Burke Museum. My finding weren't earth shattering,
but I think will be of some interest.
And notably, the Sibley Guide does a fairly good job of depicting
differences, but I think they are even more apparent.
On juv YBSA, the crown, transocular stripe, and malar stripes are all heavily
mottled in buff yellow (butter color). In juv RNSA, these areas are solid
blackish brown (excepting crown which often has red mixed in), with little or
not buff or whitish mottling.
On juv YBSA, the back is broadly barred dark and light, not so much so on juv
RNSA. There is much overlap here. More interestingly, on juv YBSA, the pale
bars of the upper back tend to be more golden on YBSA and more white on
RNSA. There is some overlap here, but on many birds, the difference is
pronounced.
Both juv sapsuckers show chests which are scalloped dusky and pale, but in
juv YBSA the pale areas tend to be paler and buffier when compared with the
grayer pale scalloping of RNSA.
Re: moult times -- the WBRC recently did not accept an early Oct report of a
juv YBSA because the bird was fairly far advanced in moult. We were concerned
that it might be a RN X YB Sapsucker. At the Burke Museum there is a juv/imm
YBSA specimen (#41290) that already shows the black bar across the chest and
the rest of the throat border was fairly blackish with relatively little
mottling. The crown was still mottled buff and red throughout and the throat
was mottled red and buff-yellow througout. The belly was already fairly
bright yellow. This bird was collected in Maryland on 11 Oct 1982, and I
think the likelihood of it being a hybrid is quite low. Soooo, apparently an
occasional YBSA moults earlier than the rest, and I think we will need to
reconsider our recent WA report.
Cheers
Steven Mlodinow
Everett WA
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Subject: female-type Lazuli and Indigo Buntings
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 19 Sep 2002 4:22pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Greetings All
On recent visits to the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago and U of
WA's Burke Museum, I decided to look over female Indigo and Lazuli Buntings.
I remember a fascinating discussion on this topic on Frontiers a few years
ago that related to a winter bunting in southern California.
Perhaps, my most important finding was substantial variability, thus
reinforcing that some birds, even with great looks, are not identifiable, at
least by me.
Streaking: In LABU specimens reviewed, streaked underparts were noted only in
juvs/imms. I found no LABU with distinct streaking after September (but the
number of late fall/winter specimens was limited). However, from July to
September, many had quite a bit of streaking. These streaks appeared to be
finer than those of the great majority of Indigos, almost reminiscent of
Lincoln's Sparrow streaking, while INDBUs had thicker blurrier streaks. All
female/imm INBU specimens had obvious streaking below.
Throat Color: The contrasting white throat was mostly useful, though there
were a couple Lazuli Buntings with contrasting whitish throats that were well
within the range of INBU (one of these was a streaked imm). A few Indigos
lacked a contrasting paler throat, but these birds were overall among the
darker and most streaked individuals (and all imms) and thus the least likely
to be confused with a LABU.
Underpart Color: Both INBU and LABUs could be quite buff underneath, though
in LABU this tended to form a band across the chest, whereas in INBU, this
color often went down the flanks and sometimes onto the vent. In some INBUs,
the pale belly area formed a oval surrounded in brownish tones. The color
itself tended towards being brighter and yellower in LABU and darker and
browner in INBU, but there was much overlap in both color and pattern.
Wingbars: Yikes. Some birds were indistinguishable with regards to this mark.
Hybrids? Maybe. But at least one or two apparent Indigos in the Field Museum
had
fairly whitish wingbars, whereas some Lazulis in both collections had wingars
that were fairly dull brown.
Back Color: I could consistently separate INBU from LABU by back color on a
museum specimen tray. The INBUs had warmer deeper brown backs. How reliably
this mark might be used in the field is hard to know, but is probably
moderately useful upon direct comparison (the difference can be seen in
Sibley's plate, though even the ad female INBU is a bit richer brown than any
-- or almost any -- LABU).
Cheers
Steven Mlodinow
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: green spots on red in male Painted Buntings
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 19 Sep 2002 4:31pm
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Greetings All
My last bit for the day (and probably a while!).
My main task at the Field Museum in Chicago was to look at male Painted
Buntings. One appeared in Seattle this winter/spring. It had a small bright
green patch or two on the bright red underparts. Pyle states that these
bright green feathers replace those of other colors that are lost in between
moults until the scheduled moult takes place. The question was -- On the
Seattle bird, was this a sign of captivity?
At the Field Museum, 12 of 84 specimens of adult male Painted Buntings showed
such small patches of green on the red underparts. There did not seem to be a
difference based on subspecies or location (Latin America vs U.S.). Thus, it
seems that a fair percentage of wild birds have such "aberrant" marks.
Also, on 8 of the 84 males, the green back extended well down onto the rump.
Unlike the random patches on the underparts, these seemed almost to be a
variant (maybe one or two year olds?). The uppertail coverts themselves were
always at least partly red.
Cheers
Steven Mlodinow
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in
Poland
From: Bruce Mactavish <bruce.mactavish1(AT)NF.SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 19 Sep 2002 6:25pm
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----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hello All,
My initial impression of this gull was a juvenile Lesser Black-backed
Gull. The whitish head, the few prominent streaks on breast, the dark
eye smudge, the shiny black bill, blackish impression of the folded
primaries (darker than the dark brown typical of smithsonianus), the
small head, thin neck, light weight chest and high contrast of white
upper tail coverts and lower back with largely black tail were cues for
picking out Lesser Black-backed Gulls among the throngs of variably
plumaged immature smithsonianus on this side of the ocean. On closer
inspection the four pale inner most primaries, pale notches along sides
of tertials and scapulars, pale outer greater upper wing coverts and
pale median coverts are not characteristic of Lesser Black-backed Gull.
Without delving into the literature and refreshing myself on
Yellow-legged Gull identification why isn't this a juv michahellis?
What ever it is the (2nd year) gull below it in the last photo shows the
same kind of bill colour and shape and dusky eye patch.
Not a smithsonianus.
Good photos.
Bruce
Bruce Mactavish
St. John's, Newfoundland
Canada
bruce.mactavish1(AT)nf.sympatico.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu] On Behalf Of Jacek Betleja
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 9:53 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in Poland
Hi all,
I would like to show my best photos of mystery gull observed few weeks
ago at Polish Baltic coast.
www.czaplon.most.org.pl/g.htm
It will be interesting for me and other gullwatchers in Poland to
receive any comments regarding the identity of this bird .
Good birding!!
-------------------------------------------------------
Jacek Betleja
Dept of Natural History, Upper Silesian Museum
pl. Sobieskiego 2, 41-902 Bytom, POLAND
e-mail: betleja(AT)us.edu.pl
-------------------------------------------------------
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: an unusual American Black Tern
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 19 Sep 2002 7:02pm
Dear All,
I'd, be keen to read any comments on/corrections to this new web page:
http://www.martinreid.com/blte.html
- how unusual is this head pattern in surinamensis? - it seems to
contradict current ID thinking for separating the two forms of Black Tern.
Cheers,
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in
Poland
From: Nick Rossiter <nrossiter(AT)SUPANET.COM>
Date: 20 Sep 2002 1:31am
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi! With reference to this interesting bird:
I don't think that this is (Mediterranean) michahellis. Although the =
bill, tertials, upper tail and inner primaries are OK for this form, the =
structure is not right as the bird has short legs and a rather small =
head. Also the head and underbody seem very dusky for a Mediterranean =
bird.=20
There is a closer match with Atlantic Yellow-legged Gull which do have =
short legs and small heads and can have distinct inner primary windows. =
Also they have broad tail bands and quite white uppertail coverts, =
except in the more northerly forms where the uppertail coverts are more =
mottled. However, the tertials are wrong as Atlantic YLG have tertials =
like LBBG. Also I do not remember seeing any Atlantic YLG with such =
heavy underbody markings although pictures of Azorean YLG juveniles do =
show some heavily marked birds. On the tertials alone I would rule out =
Atlantic YLG.=20
It is remotely possible it comes from the Atlantic/Mediterranean =
intersection zone of YLG where the tertials can become more like Med YLG =
and the birds are often duskier than further east. But I've not seen =
anything this dark there.=20
So I don't think it is a YLG.=20
Cheers ... Nick
http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Bruce Mactavish=20
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu=20
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in =
Poland
Hello All,
=20
My initial impression of this gull was a juvenile Lesser Black-backed =
Gull. The whitish head, the few prominent streaks on breast, the dark =
eye smudge, the shiny black bill, blackish impression of the folded =
primaries (darker than the dark brown typical of smithsonianus), the =
small head, thin neck, light weight chest and high contrast of white =
upper tail coverts and lower back with largely black tail were cues for =
picking out Lesser Black-backed Gulls among the throngs of variably =
plumaged immature smithsonianus on this side of the ocean. On closer =
inspection the four pale inner most primaries, pale notches along sides =
of tertials and scapulars, pale outer greater upper wing coverts and =
pale median coverts are not characteristic of Lesser Black-backed Gull. =
=20
=20
Without delving into the literature and refreshing myself on =
Yellow-legged Gull identification why isn't this a juv michahellis? =
What ever it is the (2nd year) gull below it in the last photo shows the =
same kind of bill colour and shape and dusky eye patch.
=20
Not a smithsonianus. =20
=20
Good photos. =20
=20
Bruce
=20
Bruce Mactavish
St. John's, Newfoundland
Canada
bruce.mactavish1(AT)nf.sympatico.ca
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification =
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu] On Behalf Of Jacek Betleja
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 9:53 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in =
Poland
=20
Hi all,=20
I would like to show my best photos of mystery gull observed few weeks =
ago at Polish Baltic coast.
www.czaplon.most.org.pl/g.htm=20
It will be interesting for me and other gullwatchers in Poland to =
receive any comments regarding the identity of this bird .
Good birding!!
-------------------------------------------------------
Jacek Betleja
Dept of Natural History, Upper Silesian Museum
pl. Sobieskiego 2, 41-902 Bytom, POLAND
e-mail: betleja(AT)us.edu.pl
-------------------------------------------------------=20
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Subject: Re: Mystery Gull - probably L.a.smithsonianus in
Poland
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 20 Sep 2002 4:01am
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=20
Bruce wrote:>My initial impression of this gull was a juvenile =
Lesser Black-backed Gull. The whitish head, the few prominent streaks =
on breast, the dark eye smudge, the shiny black bill, blackish =
impression of the folded primaries (darker than the dark brown typical =
of smithsonianus), the small head, thin neck, light weight chest and =
high contrast of white upper tail coverts and lower back with largely =
black tail were cues for picking out Lesser Black-backed Gulls among the =
throngs of variably plumaged immature smithsonianus on this side of the =
ocean. On closer inspection the four pale inner most primaries, pale =
notches along sides of tertials and scapulars, pale outer greater upper =
wing coverts and pale median coverts are not characteristic of Lesser =
Black-backed Gull. <
=20
and Bruce wrote:>Without delving into the literature and refreshing =
myself on Yellow-legged Gull identification why isn=92t this a juv =
michahellis? <
=20
Bruce's excellent remarks remind me of an influx in Holland in late =
August some years ago of similar elegant and dark gulls like the one in =
Poland along large very dark and boat-shaped gulls. I too hesitated to =
name the elegant type Lesser Black-back but the tertial pattern made me =
choose for Herring Gull. These gulls were in fresh still unmoulted =
juvenile plumage and were therefore most likely of northern origin =
because of the late start of the breeding season there. And as for =
Bruce's question as to why the Polish bird is not a michahellis here's a =
thumb of rule: all Mediterranean, Black Sea and Caspian large gull =
population breed at least ca 1 months earlier than most gull populations =
in the north. When Mediterranean juveniles arrive in the second half of =
July in say The Netherlands they already have pale pink shins and the =
very first 1st winter mantle feathers begin to grow and by September =
most have a very neat 1st winter mantle. Juvenile Lesser Black-backs and =
Herring Gulls however are just beginning to moult their mantle feathers =
in the beginning of September and young Lesser Black-backs may retain =
blackish shins well into October. I still am at a loss where my dark =
gulls came from. May be they are young heuglini's though.
=20
Perhaps Martin Reid would be so kind to put some of my pics on his =
web-site. I have some juv.niger Black Terns with a black crown for him =
as well and a juv. surinamensis from The Netherlands with a nice pale =
grey crown.
Norman
=20
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Subject: Tree Swallow" rump" pattern
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 20 Sep 2002 5:11am
Dear all,
I recently got the opportunity to study at close range some Tree Swallows,
and I thought I'd share some photos/thoughts on a possible pitfall in
ID-ing a distant Violet-green Swallow:
http://www.martinreid.com/treeswallow.html
Perhaps this is common knowledge and I've been out-of-the-loop on this; I'd
appreciate any comments, thanks.
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
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Subject: Re: Brown Skuas off Carolinas
From: Harry Legrand <harry.legrand(AT)NCMAIL.NET>
Date: 20 Sep 2002 5:55am
I am intrigued by the mention of Brown Skuas in Britain. Any details for
the listserve readers? My interest is as the Chair of the North Carolina
Bird Records Committee. We reviewed photos and description of a Brown
Skua reported in the Gulf Stream off NC in May about 6-8 years ago. It
seems certainly plausible (and it sure didn't look like a South Polar
Skua to me) but no committee member had experience with Brown Skua, and
so I sent the photos and text to a handful of folks around the globe
(some perhaps reading this). The comments received were mixed, and with
the controversy over what is a species of skua, color phases of skuas,
plus great similarity between South Polar and Brown (not to mention
Martin's belief that winter "Greats" off NC/VA could possibly be Brown),
it is no surprise that the Committee failed to accept the report.
However, Mike Tove included his report in his book on the Offshore
Wildlife of the North Atlantic, as fact. (An author is free to do that,
especially for his own sighting, but it didn't sit well with me, as we
did not accept the report.) I would hope that Mike's photos and
description can be reviewed by the ABA or AOU committees, but I don't
know if that will happen.
At any rate, a Brown Skua (with photos and description) was reported off
NC in May less than 10 years ago, but was not accepted by the NC
Committee. I certainly think it could, and may well, be a Brown. The
species is not on the AOU or ABA Checklists for North America, if I am
correct. But -- maybe there needs to be a re-examination of Tove's skua,
Patteson's photos, etc., if indeed the species has been reliably
recorded off Britain (I haven't seen or heard details).
Harry LeGrand
Chair, NC Bird Records Committee
> Martin wrote:
>
> Dear birders
> I was certainly caught offguard with the 2 Brown Skuas in Britain
> news! I have to admit neither ever looked like Great Skuas to me..but
> I was always angling on the South Polar line.
>
> However I was intrigued by the appearance of the 'Great Skuas'
> pictured on Brian Pattesons fantastic website www.patteson.com and
> suggested to several people, a few years ago I think, including Brian,
> that these birds looked very much more like Brown Skuas (in my limited
> understanding) and certainly not as I would have expected Great Skuas
> to appear albeit in winter
>
> birders may well like to visit the website and see what I mean. Now
> that a paradigm shift appears to be taking place in our
> understanding..some of these look like pretty obvious Brown Skuas to
> me!
>
> exciting days
>
> Cheers Martin Garner
--
Harry LeGrand
NC Natural Heritage Program
1615 MSC
Raleigh, NC 27699-1615
(919) 715-8687 (work)
FAX: 919-715-3085
e-mail: harry.legrand(AT)ncmail.net
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Subject: Gull relationships
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 20 Sep 2002 8:53am
Gull aficionados who don’t subscribe to the Auk might
be interested in an article in the latest issue titled
"Systematics of large white-headed gulls: patterns of
mitochondrial DNA variation in western European taxa,"
published by P-A. Crochet, J-D. Lebreton, and F.
Bonhomme in Auk 119:603-620, 2002. Here are a few
selected excerpts of their conclusions, some
unexpected, based on an analysis of mitochondrial DNA
and cytochrome-b gene sequences:
Herring Gull: "First, the North American taxon
smithsonianus seems to belong to a predominantly North
American clade including also L. californicus" (p.
613). "Our results suggest that the North American
form smithsonianus is more closely related to the
North American-Arctic species L. californicus, L.
glaucoides, L. thayeri, and L. hyperboreus than to L.
argentatus... The North American form smithsonianus is
probably not the closest relative to the European L.
argentatus, although adults of both species are
extremely similar. Before recommending any taxonomic
change, we would nevertheless prefer our results to be
confirmed using larger sample sizes of all North
American taxa to eliminate completely the possibility
that the SMI haplotypes invaded smithsonianus from
another taxon" (p. 616).
Lesser Black-backed Gull: "The specific status of
graellsii is not supported by our genetic data.
Populations of fuscus and graellsii share the same
main haplotype, with no significant differences in
haplotype frequency... There is no indication of
restricted gene flow between fuscus and graellsii, and
the lack of haplotype differences indicates that even
if gene flow is currently restricted, separation of
fuscus and graellsii is much more recent than of any
valid species in the large group. We recommend the
maintenance of graellsii as a subspecies of fuscus"
(p. 616).
Atlantic Yellow-legged Gull: "Our results identify the
Eurasian L. marinus as the sister taxon of
michahellis" (p. 614). "Our genetic data confirm the
distinctiveness of L. michahellis relative to the
other western European species, especially L.
argentatus. The main michahellis haplotype (MIC) is as
divergent from the main L. fuscus (FUS) and L.
argentatus (ARG) haplotypes as those last two are from
each other. The level of differentiation and
reproductive isolation of michahellis relative to L.
marinus, L. fuscus, and L. argentatus is similar to
the level of differentiation and reproductive
isolation among those three undisputed species" (p.
616).
Slaty-backed Gull: "The Arctic species L. hyperboreus,
L. thayeri, and L. glaucoides form together with L.
schistisagus a well-supported clade in our
phylogenetic analysies... L. schistisagus does not fit
into that clade morphologically" (p. 613).
Siberian taxa: "The evaluation of the systematic
status of the Siberian taxa that we investigated is
complicated by extensive lineage sharing and a lack of
original genetic material. All haplotypes detected in
vegae and mongolicus are frequent in other species,
one of them (HYP) clearly originating from
introgression. In heuglini, we found one haplotype
(HEU) which is very rare in L. fuscus and absent in
other species. Larger samples are thus required for
any meaningful interpretation of the genetic data in
these Siberian taxa" (pp. 616-617).
Hybridization: "Our data indicate that mitochondrial
gene flow occurs between some of the large
white-headed gulls but is generally low.
Hybridization, however, can be more frequent than
implied by the level of mitochondrial gene flow: if
some postzygotic barriers exist, hybrids could have a
lower survival, fertility, or both than their parents,
reducing the genetic consequences of hybridization"
(p. 617).
=====
Floyd E. Hayes
Wildlife Biologist
Division of Fish and Wildlife, 6291 Estate Nazareth,
St. Thomas, Virgin Islands 00802, USA
Tel: 340-775-6762; Fax: 340-775-3972
Website: http://www.geocities.com/floyd_hayes
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
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Subject: Re: Brown Skuas off Carolinas
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
Date: 20 Sep 2002 9:32am
In reply to Harry Legrand:
You can see pictures by Michael O'Brien and Mike Tove and a description of
the N. Carolina Brown skua claim here:
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=457
There are embedded links to pictures by Fred Jiguet of undoubted Brown Skuas
that look remarkably similar.
In answer to Harry Legrand's question about public information, it has
already appeared on ID-frontiers, but here is a link again:
http://www.surfbirds.com/Features/skua-result.html
In case anyone hadn't stumbled into it, there is a reference collection of
187 large skua pictures here:
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=347
Dick Newell
Cambridge, UK
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Subject: Re: Gull relationships
From: Jerry Tangren <tangren(AT)WSU.EDU>
Date: 20 Sep 2002 9:41am
On Friday, September 20, 2002, at 08:52 AM, Floyd Hayes wrote:
> Gull aficionados who donít subscribe to the Auk might
> be interested in an article in the latest issue titled
> "Systematics of large white-headed gulls: patterns of
> mitochondrial DNA variation in western European taxa,"
> published by P-A. Crochet, J-D. Lebreton, and F.
> Bonhomme in Auk 119:603-620, 2002. Here are a few
> selected excerpts of their conclusions, some
> unexpected, based on an analysis of mitochondrial DNA
> and cytochrome-b gene sequences:
>
> ...
> =====
> Floyd E. Hayes
Floyd, thanks for bringing this to our attention. A major
hole in the study as far as North American gulls are concerned is
"that L. glaucescens was not available for analysis."
--Jerry <tangren(AT)wsu.edu>
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Subject: polish gull
From: Julian Hough <Jrhough1(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 20 Sep 2002 10:23am
Dear All,
After looking at the photos of the Polish gull, I don't think it resembles a
smithsonianus.
Firstly, given the early date, 'typical' (if there is such a thing)
smithsonianus at this time of year are uniformly smokey-brown (particulalry on
the head and breast) and very 'skua'-like.
The Polish bird shows too white a ground colour to the head and underparts.
Also, the upper back looks too pale and maybe the rump may also be a little too
pale for a juv. smithsonianus at this time of year.
Structurally, the bird doesn't look like a smithsonianus with the bill being
rather short.
The patterning of the wing-coverts, tertials and the greater coverts are totally
variable in smithsonianus, so much so as to render the patterning of these
feathers almost useless with contentious birds.
Overall, I think the bird is probably a juv argenteus/argentatus rather than a
smithsonianus.
Julian Hough,
CT, USA
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