ID-FRONTIERS for October 6-12, 2002

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   ovenbird behaviour   Colin Bradshaw    Sun, 6 Oct 2002   6:24am   unsubscribe   Jean-Marc Lustrat    Sun, 6 Oct 2002   11:47pm   possible Yellow-legged Gull in Massachusetts   Blair Nikula    Thu, 10 Oct 2002   6:08pm   Re: [Birding Gulls] FW: possible Yellow-legged Gull inMassachusetts   Menotti Passarella    Fri, 11 Oct 2002   4:01am   Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull inMassachusetts   Martin Reid    Fri, 11 Oct 2002   5:27am   Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull inMassachusetts   Norman D.van Swelm   Fri, 11 Oct 2002   11:08am   Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull inMassachusetts   Robert H. Lewis   Fri, 11 Oct 2002   11:33am   Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull inMassachusetts   Dick Newell    Fri, 11 Oct 2002   3:19pm   Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull inMassachusetts   Nick Rossiter    Sat, 12 Oct 2002   2:16am   Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull inMassachusetts   Martin Reid    Sat, 12 Oct 2002   4:32am   Moult score in Larus michahellis [was Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull in Mass.   Menotti Passarella    Sat, 12 Oct 2002   5:35am   possible Yellow-legged Gull in Massachusetts   Brian Small    Sat, 12 Oct 2002   5:49am   Re: Moult score in Larus michahellis [was Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull in Mass.   Bert-Jan Luijendijk    Sat, 12 Oct 2002   8:12am   Re: Moult score in Larus michahellis [was Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull in Mass.   Ellen & Rik    Sat, 12 Oct 2002   12:15pm   White-winged Tern ageing   Ned Brinkley    Sat, 12 Oct 2002   1:49pm   Mystery Glaucous-..........   Norman D.van Swelm   Sat, 12 Oct 2002   1:49pm   Re: Mystery Glaucous-..........   Ned Brinkley    Sat, 12 Oct 2002   2:26pm

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Subject: ovenbird behaviour
From: Colin Bradshaw <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)BTINTERNET.COM>
Date: 6 Oct 2002 6:24am

The British Birds Rarities Committee are conidering an old record of an
Ovenbird fom mid-Nov in the 1970s. The description isn't bad for a
non-birders description but for one thing. The bird is coming to a hanging
peanut feeder and perching on the feeder perches. Although most members of
the committee are familiar with the look of Ovenbird, none of us have ever
heard of them at feeders and it seems unlikely behaviour. Has anyone ever
heard of an Ovenbird at a hanging feeder.


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Subject: unsubscribe
From: Jean-Marc Lustrat <jm_lustrat(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 6 Oct 2002 11:47pm

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Subject: possible Yellow-legged Gull in Massachusetts
From: Blair Nikula <odenews(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 10 Oct 2002 6:08pm

Greetings,

Well, there hasn't been a gull post in a week or two, so lest anyone
suffer withdrawal symptoms, I offer the following photos and brief
details on a bird seen in Eastham, Massachusetts on 6 October:
http://home.attbi.com/~odenews/YLgullEastham.htm

Although I've seen a few small "y" yellow-legged gulls in this area over
the past few years, this individual seems to be the best candidate yet
for a capital "Y" Yellow-legged Gull.  Your opinions are welcome.

Blair Nikula
--
2 Gilbert Lane
Harwich Port, MA 02646

mailto:odenews(AT)attbi.com
web site: http://www.odenews.net/


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Subject: Re: [Birding Gulls] FW: possible
         Yellow-legged Gull inMassachusetts
From: Menotti Passarella <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT>
Date: 11 Oct 2002 4:01am

---Ph.J.Dubois wrote:
>I just saw the photographs. To my eyes, it is a Capital "Y" Yellow-legged
>Gull.  All the features exhibited are good for Larus michahellis. The bird
>still seems in moult of p10 and p9 (probably old ones ?), but otherwise
>does not show too much white on primaries. That bird has a very  very pale
>yellow eye  together with a rather heavier and less down-curved than
>typical michahellis. It could be a typical atlantis from Azores area (see
>my paper in Birding World 14/7 : 293-304, 2001).
>Just a reminder : Beware with the name "cachinnans" : this name is now
>largely used in Europe for Larus cachinnans - Pontic/Caspian Gull - which
>is considered by many authors as a good species. The former name is Larus
>cachinnans cachinnans. So the Yellow-legged Gull (the western form) is now
>Larus michahellis (instead of L. cachinnans michahellis). Cachinnans is
>quite different from michahellis, but atlantis is still considered as a
>race of L. michahellis (L. m. atlantis).

My reply:

 The possibile Larus michahellis at Eastham (Cape Cod), Massachusetts, USA
06-oct-2002:

http://home.attbi.com/~odenews/YLgullEastham.htm

Compare it with the GBBG in the back and with the "smithsonianus" Herring
Gulls:

http://home.attbi.com/~odenews/ylgu1002JTb.jpg

http://home.attbi.com/~odenews/ylgu1002JTe.jpg

A second "Yellow-legged Gull", probable Larus michahellis of the group
"atlantis" ( St. John's, Newfoundland 05-feb- 1997):

http://web.cs.mun.ca/~dave/ylgu.html

Check this photo, from that website:

http://web.cs.mun.ca/~dave/images/YLGU/p16.jpg

This second bird appears darker than the former, and shows a lot of black in
the wingtips: note the P10, the P5 and the P4:

http://web.cs.mun.ca/~dave/images/YLGU/p17.jpg

Compare it with this typical Larus michahellis michahellis male (clearly!)
fotographed at Chioggia, NE Italy, this springtime 2002:

http://it.geocities.com/podeltabirds/michalove777.JPG

http://it.geocities.com/podeltabirds/michalove779.JPG

According to me the Cape Cod gull seems paler than the St. John's (that
appears to be a typical "atlantis"); moreover the moult of the latter seems
late (with 2 old outer primaries) for atlantis and typical for the nominate
michahellis in this period (ranging now from 2 old primaties to 0 old
primaries). Why to exclude it as a typical michahellis ?

Finally, a photo of Larus michahellis atlantis in that stage of moult, taken
at the Canaries in August by Maurizio Sighele appears in the homepage of the
Birding Gulls Group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/birdinggulls/

Cheers

Menotti Passarella


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Subject: Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull inMassachusetts
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 11 Oct 2002 5:27am

Dear All,
Regarding the recent Cape Cod gull:  I fully agree with Menotti about this
bird, and feel it is an excellent candidate for a nominate (in European
terms) YLGU - Larus {cachinnans} michahellis michahellis.  For those in
Europe, please keep in mind that the AOU has NOT split cach. from mich.,
thus over here he have to refer to the species as L. cachinnans - please
excuse the dichotomy!
My first reaction was to like the look of this bird, but feel that any
claim of YLGU without good photos/description of the critical outer primary
details could not be properly assessed.  But after a careful look at the
images, I feel that there may be enough detail visible to conclude that
this is L {c} michahellis - probably of the nominate form.
The bill shape, head shape, bare-parts coloration, light head flecking,
mantle shade in comparison to nearby gulls, molt stage, and length of wings
(compared to the tail in image  "JTb") all appear quite consistent with
mich., and in combination would seem to rule out almost anything else. BUT
the detail of the black in the P10 - P5 is crucial in clinching the
ID.  Counting backwards in image "JTa", P10, P9, and P8 are
older-generation; it is hard to see if P10 had a strong mirror, but with no
other indications of being a 5th-year bird, it is reasonable to assume that
these older Ps are adult-like and that the true extent of white in P9 and
P10 is not discernable. In fact, YLGU can range from "small P10 mirror with
no P9 mirror" right through to "solid white tip to P10 with large P9
mirror", so in fact the tips to these feathers are perhaps the LEAST
important for ID purposes.  P7 is missing (more probably growing but not
yet visible in the folded wing)  while P6 and P5 have a standard black
pattern for YLGU (but also for many HERGs, too) and the edge of P4 is
visible, showing no sign of any black. Going back to P8, the critical
primary, the crucial feature is the extent of the gray inner tongue:
looking at "JTa" we can see a reasonable amount of the inner side of P8 due
to the missing P7 - and it is all-black; looking at image "JTd" and
zooming-in a bit, there is more of the inner edge of P8 visible - and again
no sign of the gray tongue-tip - perfect for mich/atlantis and the most
unlikely feature in any HERG.  Note also the bases of P10-P8 in image "JTa"
- the black almost reaches the primary coverts, and merges rather than
having a clean transition to gray; while some of this effect may be due to
wear/fading, it matches exactly the pattern on Menotti's image here:
http://it.geocities.com/podeltabirds/michalove779.JPG
In summary, I feel that despite the lack of an open-wing image, this gull
is an excellent fit for michahellis and that the combination of features
reasonably rules out all other alternatives (except perhaps a pale atlantis.)
Congratulations to Blair et al, for finding and cautiously identifying this
bird; following Blair's find of the Elegant Tern, that's quite a
Massachusetts Double!
Regards,
Martin

At 10/11/2002 01:12 PM +0200, you wrote:
>---Ph.J.Dubois wrote:
> >I just saw the photographs. To my eyes, it is a Capital "Y" Yellow-legged
> >Gull.  All the features exhibited are good for Larus michahellis. The bird
> >still seems in moult of p10 and p9 (probably old ones ?), but otherwise
> >does not show too much white on primaries. That bird has a very  very pale
> >yellow eye  together with a rather heavier and less down-curved than
> >typical michahellis. It could be a typical atlantis from Azores area (see
> >my paper in Birding World 14/7 : 293-304, 2001).
> >Just a reminder : Beware with the name "cachinnans" : this name is now
> >largely used in Europe for Larus cachinnans - Pontic/Caspian Gull - which
> >is considered by many authors as a good species. The former name is Larus
> >cachinnans cachinnans. So the Yellow-legged Gull (the western form) is now
> >Larus michahellis (instead of L. cachinnans michahellis). Cachinnans is
> >quite different from michahellis, but atlantis is still considered as a
> >race of L. michahellis (L. m. atlantis).
>
>My reply:
>
>  The possibile Larus michahellis at Eastham (Cape Cod), Massachusetts, USA
>06-oct-2002:
>
>http://home.attbi.com/~odenews/YLgullEastham.htm
>
>Compare it with the GBBG in the back and with the "smithsonianus" Herring
>Gulls:
>
>http://home.attbi.com/~odenews/ylgu1002JTb.jpg
>
>http://home.attbi.com/~odenews/ylgu1002JTe.jpg
>
>A second "Yellow-legged Gull", probable Larus michahellis of the group
>"atlantis" ( St. John's, Newfoundland 05-feb- 1997):
>
>http://web.cs.mun.ca/~dave/ylgu.html
>
>Check this photo, from that website:
>
>http://web.cs.mun.ca/~dave/images/YLGU/p16.jpg
>
>This second bird appears darker than the former, and shows a lot of black in
>the wingtips: note the P10, the P5 and the P4:
>
>http://web.cs.mun.ca/~dave/images/YLGU/p17.jpg
>
>Compare it with this typical Larus michahellis michahellis male (clearly!)
>fotographed at Chioggia, NE Italy, this springtime 2002:
>
>http://it.geocities.com/podeltabirds/michalove777.JPG
>
>http://it.geocities.com/podeltabirds/michalove779.JPG
>
>According to me the Cape Cod gull seems paler than the St. John's (that
>appears to be a typical "atlantis"); moreover the moult of the latter seems
>late (with 2 old outer primaries) for atlantis and typical for the nominate
>michahellis in this period (ranging now from 2 old primaties to 0 old
>primaries). Why to exclude it as a typical michahellis ?
>
>Finally, a photo of Larus michahellis atlantis in that stage of moult, taken
>at the Canaries in August by Maurizio Sighele appears in the homepage of the
>Birding Gulls Group:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/birdinggulls/
>
>Cheers
>
>Menotti Passarella

Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com


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Subject: Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull inMassachusetts
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 11 Oct 2002 11:08am

If my eyes do not deceive me the Cape Cod bird has P9 and P10 still
unmo(u)lted. At the beginning of October Mediterranean Yellow-legs have
dropped these and P10 may even be fully grown. However Lesser Black-backs
mo(u)lting in NW Europe and Atlantic Yellow-legs are in the same stage as
the Cape Cod gull. My vote therefore goes to Atlantic Yellow-leg L.atlantis.
Bob Lewis had or has a similar bird on his website, I forgot where it was
seen in the US. Congratulations Blair!
Norman


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Subject: Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull inMassachusetts
From: "Robert H. Lewis" <lewis(AT)BWAY.NET>
Date: 11 Oct 2002 11:33am

on 10/11/02 2:03 PM, Norman D.van Swelm at Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL wrote:

> If my eyes do not deceive me the Cape Cod bird has P9 and P10 still
> unmo(u)lted. At the beginning of October Mediterranean Yellow-legs have
> dropped these and P10 may even be fully grown. However Lesser Black-backs
> mo(u)lting in NW Europe and Atlantic Yellow-legs are in the same stage as
> the Cape Cod gull. My vote therefore goes to Atlantic Yellow-leg L.atlantis.
> Bob Lewis had or has a similar bird on his website, I forgot where it was
> seen in the US. Congratulations Blair!

  There are several pages on my web site that are relevant to this
discussion.

http://www.fordham.edu/lewis/birds/easton/easton.html

http://www.bway.net/~lewis/birds/novasc/nomiss.html

The bird that Norman is referring to:
http://www.bway.net/~lewis/birds/CHYellow/chyellow.html

A New Jersey bird that was not accepted by the state committee as YLGU:
http://www.fordham.edu/lewis/birds/Longport/longport.html

http://www.bway.net/~lewis/birds/Portugal/port.html

   There is also Nick Rossiter's site:
http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/index.htm

  As for the present bird, I would like to see the new grown-in wings before
saying anything more than others have.  Please find the bird again in two
months!  ;-)

Bob Lewis
Sleepy Hollow NY
http://www.bway.net/~lewis/birds/gulls.html


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Subject: Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull inMassachusetts
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
Date: 11 Oct 2002 3:19pm

In reply to Norman van Swelm:
I am not sure Norman is right about atlantis moult - take a look at Nick
Rossiter's atlantis gulls (and I have my own pix of Canaries and Madieran
atlantis in late July and August) - they are in the same state of moult (2
old outer primaries) in August - this bird is in that state in October and
its a 4CY so really should be even more ahead so should have finished its
primary moult - unless they moult later in the Azores, which they may do,as
it's a bit further north.
I am not (yet) convinced this is an old world gull for other reasons too:
it's dumpy shape and lurid yellow bill put me off - but I don't know Azores
birds.
Dick

On 11/10/02 7:03 PM, "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL> wrote:

> If my eyes do not deceive me the Cape Cod bird has P9 and P10 still
> unmo(u)lted. At the beginning of October Mediterranean Yellow-legs have
> dropped these and P10 may even be fully grown. However Lesser Black-backs
> mo(u)lting in NW Europe and Atlantic Yellow-legs are in the same stage as
> the Cape Cod gull. My vote therefore goes to Atlantic Yellow-leg L.atlantis.
> Bob Lewis had or has a similar bird on his website, I forgot where it was
> seen in the US. Congratulations Blair!
> Norman
>


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Subject: Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull inMassachusetts
From: Nick Rossiter <nrossiter(AT)SUPANET.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 2002 2:16am

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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This looks to me like a southern atlantis YLG in a retarded state of =
moult but there are a few qualifications.=20

I don't think it's a michahellis because the legs are far too short. =
Norman's recent paper published over the Internet=20
http://www.ncp.fi/lokitseura/IGM2/NORMAN.htm
showed that the leg length is statistically a significant difference =
between michahellis and atlantis and my observations at many localities =
have indicated that it is a reliable feature. Typically atlantis have a =
leg length of 65-70% of the body height above while in michahellis the =
figure is 90-100%. Those at the Mediterranean/Atlantic intersection are =
intermediate.=20

Also the size (similar to smithsonianus or slightly smaller) is perfect =
for atlantis and not for michahellis. The bluish mantle shade in some =
shots is also good for atlantis but obviously all colour in photos needs =
to be treated with caution.=20

The bird is heavy but see:=20
http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/Tenerife,%20Canaries,%20August%20199=
8,%20Adult5.jpg

for a rather similar bird structurally at Santa Cruz, Tenerife, on 16 =
August 1998.

The moult is not typical for a southern atlantis. In Gran Canaria in the =
last week of September no birds had any old feathers. Most had P1-P8 new =
and P9-P10 growing with the most advanced growing only P10 and the most =
retarded growing P8-P10. See shots from Las Palmas 24 Sept 2000 (just =
added to site):=20
Typical moult:

http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/las%20palmas%2024%20sep%202000%20adu=
lt%20wings%20flight.jpg

slightly retarded:

http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/las%20palmas%2024%20sep%202000%20adu=
lt%20perched%20calling.jpg

quite retarded:

http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/las%20palmas%2024%20sep%202000%20adu=
lt%20perched%202.jpg

Two things are against northern atlantis: the head is quite pale and the =
bill is heavy with a steep angle at the culmen. However, the moult is =
probably more at the pace of northern atlantis which tend to be around 2 =
feathers behind the southern form.=20

My guess is that this is a southern atlantis which has spent the summer =
fairly far north and so has followed a delayed moult cycle.  As Dick =
says it's quite similar to southern atlantis in August. But is there any =
evidence for the timing of moult cycles being changed this way?

Martin has gleaned a lot from the closed wing but it would still have =
been nice to see the spread wing just to check the extent of black on =
the wing and the P9 markings. The absence of a mirror on P9 would be =
added support for southern atlantis or an Azores origin.=20

Cheers ... Nick

http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/

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Subject: Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull inMassachusetts
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 12 Oct 2002 4:32am

Dear All,
I'd like to thank all those with experience of various YLGUs who have
responded.  It is interesting that those who have YGLU as their common
large gull are quite happy that this is a YLGU (despite some difference of
opinion in racial identity, and the P-molt issue), while those who are less
happy with it as YLGU are all birders who have YLGU as a scarce or rare
visitor among HERGs - is this significant?
I also do not want to be mistaken for an expert on YLGU.  I am a student of
gulls, and I've seen only a handful of YLGUs in the UK, and no atlantis (to
my knowledge.)
Regarding the P-molt situation, I am pleased to have learned from this
discussion that even in early Oct, the molt score of this bird is   6 - 8
weeks late for a typical mich or southern atlantis.  I'd add the following
comments into the mix:
I've photographed in Texas a smith-like HERG with a molt-score two months
later than normal:
http://www.martinreid.com/hsmitp72.html
- and LBBGs with even later molts (e.g.
http://www.martinreid.com/lbbgp32.html ) - does this mean their
Identification should be seriously questioned? I get the impression that
the more we look, the more the molt goalposts widen.  Consider LBBG in
Europe - a heavily-studied form which all modern literature says has a very
late first-pre-basic (juv - 1W) molt - yet the Muusses, at their wonderful
site: http://www.birdsnaps.com/ have recently shown that some juvvie LBBGs
gain 1w-type wing coverts WHILE STILL BEING FED BY THEIR PARENTS!  Look at
how the notion just a few years ago that some fuscus could be Id-ed by
their molt-stage is now rather defunct.
The point here is that molt timing seems to be one of the most variable and
reactive features of gull populations, and even for individuals: note the
reaction of Kelp gulls that end up in the northern hemisphere as they
quickly adopt a Boreal molt cycle instead on and Austral one.  One earlier
poster mentioned that a vagrant YLGU to the Americas is most likely to be a
first-winter bird; so it seems reasonable to think that the Mass bird
arrived a few years ago, has adopted a more northern range, and adjusted
its molt accordingly.  It seems clear to me that if we cannot use the
molt-stage of an individual large gull to support its ID, then we cannot
use it to question its ID, either....
Regarding the suggestion that it might be a pale LBBG: LBBGs in the
Americas seem to be intergrades, with all those that I have seen personally
( and seen photos of where mantle shade can be assessed) looking darker
than any  pure graellsii.  I believe that these birds are Dutch
intergrades, with the odd full intermedius - in fact I feel that pure
graellsii is less documented and less likely than pure intermedius.  Also
the molt of American LBBGs is much later than pure graellsii, such that the
molt of this Mass bird is probably two months EARLY for Am. LBBGs, in my
experience - not that the molt timing is critical, of course :-)

I 'd like to know how Dick aged this bird as 4CY, as the only element to
suggest this (that I can see) are the old primaries - which could equally
be explained by being an adult YLGU that has/had smaller mirrors. These old
feathers seem so worn and faded that I find it hard to make any conclusions
about their original pattern.  The only other thing I see in the pics is
that in the one photo showing the legs, the underside of the foot has a
fleshy tone: I have seen photos of adult LBBGs and YLGUs that look like
this, and its a common artifact of photo/scanning to make legs appear to
have flesh tones when in real life they did not.  The reverse never seems
to happen - and the legs of this bird seems to be chrome yellow.

I'd also really appreciate it if Nick could explain exactly what he'd like
to see on P9, and how this might further the ID - especially with regard to
ruling out LBBG.

I look forward to learning more.
Martin

At 10/12/2002 10:24 AM +0100, you wrote:
>This looks to me like a southern atlantis YLG in a retarded state of moult
>but there are a few qualifications.
>
>I don't think it's a michahellis because the legs are far too short.
>Norman's recent paper published over the Internet
><http://www.ncp.fi/lokitseura/IGM2/NORMAN.htm>http://www.ncp.fi/lokitseura/IGM2/NORMAN.htm
>showed that the leg length is statistically a significant difference
>between michahellis and atlantis and my observations at many localities
>have indicated that it is a reliable feature. Typically atlantis have a
>leg length of 65-70% of the body height above while in michahellis the
>figure is 90-100%. Those at the Mediterranean/Atlantic intersection are
>intermediate.
>
>Also the size (similar to smithsonianus or slightly smaller) is perfect
>for atlantis and not for michahellis. The bluish mantle shade in some
>shots is also good for atlantis but obviously all colour in photos needs
>to be treated with caution.
>
>The bird is heavy but see:
>
><http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/Tenerife,%20Canaries,%20August%201998,%20Adult5.jpg>http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/Tenerife,%20Canaries,%20August%201998,%20Adult5.jpg
>
>for a rather similar bird structurally at Santa Cruz, Tenerife, on 16
>August 1998.
>The moult is not typical for a southern atlantis. In Gran Canaria in the
>last week of September no birds had any old feathers. Most had P1-P8 new
>and P9-P10 growing with the most advanced growing only P10 and the most
>retarded growing P8-P10. See shots from Las Palmas 24 Sept 2000 (just
>added to site):
>
>Typical moult:
>
><http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/las palmas 24 sep 2000 adult wings
>flight.jpg>http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/las%20palmas%2024%20sep%202000%20adult%20wings%20flight.jpg
>
>slightly retarded:
>
><http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/las palmas 24 sep 2000 adult perched
>calling.jpg>http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/las%20palmas%2024%20sep%202000%20adult%20perched%20calling.jpg
>
>quite retarded:
>
><http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/las palmas 24 sep 2000 adult perched
>2.jpg>http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/las%20palmas%2024%20sep%202000%20adult%20perched%202.jpg
>
>Two things are against northern atlantis: the head is quite pale and the
>bill is heavy with a steep angle at the culmen. However, the moult is
>probably more at the pace of northern atlantis which tend to be around 2
>feathers behind the southern form.
>
>My guess is that this is a southern atlantis which has spent the summer
>fairly far north and so has followed a delayed moult cycle.  As Dick says
>it's quite similar to southern atlantis in August. But is there any
>evidence for the timing of moult cycles being changed this way?
>
>Martin has gleaned a lot from the closed wing but it would still have been
>nice to see the spread wing just to check the extent of black on the wing
>and the P9 markings. The absence of a mirror on P9 would be added support
>for southern atlantis or an Azores origin.
>
>Cheers ... Nick
>
><http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/las palmas 24 sep 2000 adult perched
>calling.jpg>http://www.nrossiter.supanet.com/ylg/

Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Moult score in Larus michahellis [was Re:
         possible Yellow-legged Gull in Mass.
From: Menotti Passarella <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT>
Date: 12 Oct 2002 5:35am

---Martin Reid wrote:
>Regarding the P-molt situation, I am pleased to have learned from this
>discussion that even in early Oct, the molt score of this bird is   6 - 8
>weeks late for a typical mich.

Hi Martin and all.

I inform you that we have a ringing (banding) station in NE Italy, south of
Venice. Here, during the night, and with a tape lure, we try to catch both
gulls and terns. Until now we trapped: Sandwich, Common, Little, Caspian,
Black and Gull-billed terns, besides  Mediterranean, Black-headed,
Slender-billed, Lesser Black-backed and Yellow-legged (michahellis) gulls.

Last session, on 08 October 2002 we trapped 26 adult (>3cy), among which 2
4cy; they were in active moulting, and 3 of them had 1or 2 old outer
primaries. Here are the moult (molt) score of those 3 gulls:

5555555410
5555555410
5555555200

So, in early October, 4 in a hundred YLGs may have 2 old primaries, and 8
may have one.

Cheers

Menotti Passarella
Italy


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: possible Yellow-legged Gull in Massachusetts
From: Brian Small <BrianJSmall(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 2002 5:49am

Dick Newell has aged this as 4th cal and I tend to agree - can I see small
dark marks in the primary coverts?

I currently see c.10 adult michahellis on a daily basis and all are more
advanced than this.  What is also odd is the whiteness of the head - all of
'mine' have the characteristic head streaking of mich, with tight, thin black
marks around the eye, extending back and then finely up over the nape.  One
is whiter headed, but it still has remnants of this pattern.  Are we going to
say that the body is more advanced, but the wing moult is retarded?

This is a toughy, and I would not like to put a specific tag on it
personally.

Brian Small


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Moult score in Larus michahellis [was Re:
         possible Yellow-legged Gull in Mass.
From: Bert-Jan Luijendijk <bjluijendijk(AT)PLANET.NL>
Date: 12 Oct 2002 8:12am

Hey Menotti et all

Interesting figures! Especially since our regular surveys at (mainly)
Etaples sur Mer and Dannes, Pas-de-Calais, France, reveal a quite different
picture. So when I use michahellis I refer to the Yellow-legged Gulls
present at the latter location.
Already from half of September it is rather unusual to find a michahellis
with a few or even one retained old primary. On 21-22 September only 1 or 2
birds in a hundred appeared to show an old P10. Despite checking a mere 400
michahellis between 29 September and 5 October we failed to find any adult
michahellis with a retained old primary.

Seemingly less advanced michahellis are in the Eastern part of Italy a more
frequent appearance.

Cheers

Bert-Jan Luijendijk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Menotti Passarella" <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 2:46 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Moult score in Larus michahellis [was Re: possible
Yellow-legged Gull in Mass.

> ---Martin Reid wrote:
> >Regarding the P-molt situation, I am pleased to have learned from this
> >discussion that even in early Oct, the molt score of this bird is   6 - 8
> >weeks late for a typical mich.
>
> Hi Martin and all.
>
> I inform you that we have a ringing (banding) station in NE Italy, south
of
> Venice. Here, during the night, and with a tape lure, we try to catch both
> gulls and terns. Until now we trapped: Sandwich, Common, Little, Caspian,
> Black and Gull-billed terns, besides  Mediterranean, Black-headed,
> Slender-billed, Lesser Black-backed and Yellow-legged (michahellis) gulls.
>
> Last session, on 08 October 2002 we trapped 26 adult (>3cy), among which 2
> 4cy; they were in active moulting, and 3 of them had 1or 2 old outer
> primaries. Here are the moult (molt) score of those 3 gulls:
>
> 5555555410
> 5555555410
> 5555555200
>
> So, in early October, 4 in a hundred YLGs may have 2 old primaries, and 8
> may have one.
>
> Cheers
>
> Menotti Passarella
> Italy


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Moult score in Larus michahellis [was Re:
         possible Yellow-legged Gull in Mass.
From: Ellen & Rik <gagel(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 12 Oct 2002 12:15pm

Just a few days ago I saw two yellow-legged Herring Gulls at the German
island of Helgoland. Both showed a rather white head and two remaining old
primaries, being amongst the least advanced of the herring gulls present.
One of these birds also showed upperparts coloration similar to michahellis,
but structural and (other) bare part features clinched the ID as herring.
The Mass. bird could be both as far as I'm concerned, although the moult
pattern does seem to be quite a bit retarded compared to "normal"
michahellis. But then again, what does vagrancy do to moult patterns? I
would not be too surprised to find a vagrant large gull to show a retarded
moult...

kind regards,
Rik Winters


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: White-winged Tern ageing
From: Ned Brinkley <Phoebetria(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 2002 1:49pm

Thanks to all who weighed in on the White-winged Tern ageing question from
Virginia.  I’m embarrassed to learn that I’ve overlooked some important
references and recent literature, but glad to be “catching up” now.

In particular, the article in the September issue of British Birds (2002.
From the Rarities Committee's files: A White-winged Black Tern in an
unusually advanced state of moult, pp. 449+) by Colin Bradshaw and John
Wright suggests clearly that some birds are indeed in clean first-winter
plumage at this time of year.

At least one respondent felt that the contrast of the older, dark outer
primaries with the paler inner primaries eliminates a first-calendar-year
bird.  The Macmillan Birder’s Guide (1996) depicts an adult bird in basic
plumage that is a perfect match with the Chincoteague bird, both dorsally and
ventrally, including the white underwing (lacking the retained dark coverts,
as apparently plenty of September adults do; a wandering, failed breeder
might be even more advanced in molt).  So it would appear that the
Chincoteague bird was most likely an adult in basic plumage, or possibly a
bird nearly molted into second-winter plumage.   [My failure to purchase this
the Macmillan guide when it appeared was an oversight I’m keen to correct,
but it seems to be out of print and out of stock everywhere.  (Any
suggestions for booksellers welcome!)]

Many thanks,
Ned Brinkley
Cape Charles, Virginia


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Subject: Mystery Glaucous-..........
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 12 Oct 2002 1:49pm

Have a look at  http://www.avifaunagroningen.nl and tells what we have here,
please! The gull was photographed a week ago in the north of The
Netherlands.
Norman


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Mystery Glaucous-..........
From: Ned Brinkley <Phoebetria(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 2002 2:26pm

This bird photographed by Dusan Brinkhuizen appears to be a leucistic
Great(er) Black-backed Gull (cf. BIRDING 27: 132; photo unfortunately washed
out by printers), just based on overall bulk, shape, and bill structure.  A
hybrid of some sort would be impossible to rule out base on photographs,
strictly speaking, but the apparent size of this bird (presumably much larger
than surrounding gulls? not mentioned) suggests something larger than
Glacous, thus the world's largest species, Great Black-backed?

Ned Brinkley
Cape Charles, VA