ID-FRONTIERS for October 13-19, 2002

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   leucistic Great(er) Black-backed Gull   Norman D.van Swelm   Sun, 13 Oct 2002   4:23am   Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull in Massachusetts   Nick Rossiter    Mon, 14 Oct 2002   12:53am   Taxonomic status of_atlantis_ Yellow-legged Gull   pabuckley    Tue, 15 Oct 2002   10:43am   Sea Duck Compilation (fwd)   Ian Paulsen    Tue, 15 Oct 2002   10:52am   Re: Taxonomic status of_atlantis_ Yellow-legged Gull   Millington/BIS    Tue, 15 Oct 2002   11:37am   Re: Taxonimic Status atlantis   Nick Rossiter    Tue, 15 Oct 2002   3:30pm   Re: Taxonimic Status atlantis   Norman D.van Swelm   Tue, 15 Oct 2002   3:56pm   Brown Pelicans on the Great Lakes -- 2002   Alan Wormington    Wed, 16 Oct 2002   12:25pm   Re: Taxonimic Status atlantis   Florida Nature Tours   Wed, 16 Oct 2002   2:31pm   Re: Taxonimic Status atlantis   Norman D.van Swelm   Wed, 16 Oct 2002   4:41pm   RFH: Identifying Cassin's Vireos in the Fall   Martin Reid    Sat, 19 Oct 2002   7:21pm   Passerina bunting UT coverts   Marcy Scott    Sat, 19 Oct 2002   7:41pm

To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'. This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.

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Subject: leucistic Great(er) Black-backed Gull
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 13 Oct 2002 4:23am

Thanks Ned and Alvaro, I think you are absolutely right we have here a
misleading leucist again. Two more photo's have been added, look at

> http://www.avifaunagroningen.nl
then click on 'Meer lezen' (=read more).
All the best, Norman


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Subject: Re: possible Yellow-legged Gull in Massachusetts
From: Nick Rossiter <nrossiter(AT)SUPANET.COM>
Date: 14 Oct 2002 12:53am

Two thoughts on the hybrid idea:

1) The legs of this bird are actually quite a bright strong yellow for a
moulting
Yellow-legged Gull. Many are a washed out yellow at this time of year
although certainly some atlantis do retain a bright sheen. If this is not a
fully mature bird (4cy as suggested by Dick) then the leg colour would be
expected to be paler still (Pierre Yesou has written on this). Hybrids such
as smithsonianus x graellsii (or any other flesh-yellow pairing??) are
thought to show a fleshy tinge to their legs even in the breeding season so
in October their legs would be very unlikely to show the bright yellow of
the Massachusetts bird.

2) The head is not completely white. The text of the original account
mentions some slight forehead speckling. I wonder whether the head markings
are taken from the photos or field observations. I have found it very
difficult assessing sparse head markings in bright sunlight. The best time
is around dawn or dusk or in overcast conditions. Atlantis show enormous
variation in head markings in moult from full hooded in the Azores and
half-hooded in Madeira to quite sparse markings in much of the Canaries. In
Tenerife in August I recorded: "most (72%) slight hood from extensive spots
around eyes, forehead and crown" and in Gran Canaria in September: "fairly
dusky, many with prominent dark patch over eye and grey-brown wash over rest
of head and upper-neck; they look paler in bright light".

While there is scope here for debate over which type of YLG is involved, we
 would surely expect a hybrid such as smithsonianus x graellsii to show a
much more dusky head at this time of year just like both of its parents.

Re: P9 (Martin's query), it's not critical for YLG
identification but the absence of a mirror on P9 would statistically help
the case for atlantis a bit as only about 20% of this form (with
considerable geographic variation) have a mirror on this feather.

As Martin has said, we should not assume this gull arrived in North America
this year. If indeed it arrived in its first year its moult cycle may now be
similar to that of smithsonianus.

Cheers ... Nick


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Subject: Taxonomic status of_atlantis_ Yellow-legged Gull
From: pabuckley <pabuckley(AT)URI.EDU>
Date: 15 Oct 2002 10:43am

The taxonomic status of the yellow-legged, large white-headed gull
breeding on the Macaronesian Islands of Madeira, the Azores, and the
Canaries (_atlantis_) has had a checkered history. It has at various
times been considered a race of Herring Gull, of Yellow-legged Gull,
and even of Lesser Black-backed Gull.

As molecular studies of large gulls around the world have accelerated
in recent years, shedding light and offering new insights and
testable hypotheses, field work has also moved along, but the
ultimate test of biological species rank --- reproductive isolation
between sympatric populations --- has proven elusive in many cases
because the gulls remained allopatric.

A small but significant exception to that pattern was recently
published in WATERBIRDS 25: 388-389 (2002). This short paper (by J.M.
Grande and C.-J. Palacios) reports a 2000-km jump southward in the
breeding range of  _graellsii_ Lesser Black-backed Gulls, but what
commands attention is that it occurred on Alegranza and Montaņa
Islands, just north of Lanzarote Island, in the Canaries. Here in
June 2001, 5-6 pairs of _graellsii_ nested within a colony of
_atlantis_ Yellow-legged Gulls with no evidence of interbreeding,
mixed pairs, interspecific courtship, or hybrids; at least one pair
of _graellsii_ apparently fledged young.

This is the first instance of sympatry between _graellsii_ and
Macaronesian _atlantis_ I am aware of, and indicates strongly that
whatever oceanic  _atlantis_ might be (a race of _michahellis_ or
possibly a species in its own right), it is a separate biological
species from _graellsii_. ['Yellow-legged Gulls' on the Atlantic
coast of the Iberian Peninsula, considered by some to be _atlantis_,
by others _michahellis_ and 'otherwise' by still others, are already
known to breed sympatrically with _graellsii_.]

--
P.A. Buckley
Box 8 @ Graduate School of Oceanography
University of Rhode Island
Narragansett RI 02882

01-401-874-4201    (office)
01-401-874-6887    (fax)
01-401-792-3451    (home)
pabuckley(AT)uri.edu  (email)

'In the fields of observation, chance favors only the mind that is
prepared.'  --- Louis Pasteur


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Subject: Sea Duck Compilation (fwd)
From: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 15 Oct 2002 10:52am

HI ALL:
 In case people are missing out on the interior West invasion of Seaducks
(scoters and long-tailed duck).

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:44:56 -0700
From: Kerry Turley <kdturley(AT)bentonrea.com>
To: Tweeters <tweeters(AT)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Sea Duck Compilation

I've updated the compilation I did on the Sea Duck irruption we seem to be
experiencing on the east side of the mountains (in case the regional NAB
compilers are interested). It is a pretty impressive list.

1 - Surf Scoter Buchanan Lake, Yakima, WA  8 Oct 2002 (RR)
13 - Surf Scoters Columbia River Wenatchee, WA 8 Oct 2002 (DB)
1 - Surf Scoter Yakima Delta Richland, WA 9 Oct 2002 (BL, NL)
48 - Surf Scoter Potholes Resevoir, Grant Co. WA 9 Oct 2002 (BF)
2 - Surf Scoter Yakima Delta Richland, WA 11Oct 2002 (BL, NL)
4  - Long-tailed Duck Soap Lake, Grant Co. WA 11 Oct 2002 (DS)
3 - Surf Scoter Soap Lake, Grant Co. WA 11 Oct 2002 (DS)
45 - Surf Scoter Lake Lenore, Grant co. WA 11 Oct 2002 (DS)
7 - Surf Scoter Alkali Lake, Grant co. WA  11 Oct 2002 (DS)
17 - Surf Scoter Vantage, Kittitas Co. WA 12 Oct 2002 (SD)
2 - White-winged Scoter Soap Lake, Grant Co. WA 12 Oct 2002 (BF)
12 - Surf Scoter below Vantage, WA 12 Oct 2002 (BF)
8 - Surf Scoter Sullivan Lake, Pend Oreille Co. WA  12 Oct 2002 (MM)
21 - Surf Scoter Two Rivers County Park, Kennewick, WA 13 Oct 2002 (DR)
6  - Surf Scoter Swallows Park, Clarkston, Asotin Co. WA 13 Oct 2002 (AW)

5 - Surf Scoter Spring Valley Res. Moscow, ID 6 Oct 2002 (CS)
11 - Surf Scoter Mann Lake Nez Perce Co. ID  9 Oct 2002 (KC, MC)
1 - Surf Scoter Page Ponds Shoshone Co., ID 12 Oct 2002 (LH)
3 - Surf Scoter Genesee Holding Pond, Genesee ID 13 Oct 2002 (TG)

4 - Surf Scoter Okanagan Lake, Penticton, B.C. 2 Oct 2002 (LN)
1 - Surf Scoter  Stump Lake, Merritt, B.C. 6 Oct 2002 (WW)
3 - Surf Scoter  Nicola Lake, Merritt, B.C. 6 Oct 2002 (WW)
3 - Surf Scoter  Nicola L. rest area, Merritt, B.C. 6 Oct 2002 (WW)
3 - White-winged Scoter  Nicola Lake, Merritt, B.C. 6 Oct 2002 (WW)
5 - Surf Scoter Okanagan Lake, Penticton, B.C. 9 Oct 2002 (GW,LN)
1 - White-winged Scoter Okanagan Lake, Penticton, B.C. 9 Oct 2002 (GW,LN)

4 - Surf Scoter Joseph Sewage Lagoon, Wallowa Co., OR 30 Sep 2002  (FC)
7 -  Surf Scoter  Wallowa Lake, Wallowa Co., OR 12 Oct 2002 (FC)

Observers:
AW - Al Winter
BF - Bob Flores
BL - Bill LaFramboise
CS - Charles Swift
DB - Dave Beaudette
DR - Dennis K. Rockwell
DS - Doug Schonewald
FC - Frank Conly
GW - Gwynneth Wilson
KC - Keith Carlson
LH - Lisa Hardy
LN - Laure Neish
MC - Marilyn Carlson
MM - Matthew Moskwik
NL - Nancy LaFramboise
RR - Rich Repp
SD - Scott G. Downs
TG - Terry Gray
WW - Wayne C. Weber

Kerry Turley
304 E. Woodin Rd.
Sunnyside, WA 98944


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Subject: Re: Taxonomic status of_atlantis_ Yellow-legged
         Gull
From: Millington/BIS <sales(AT)BIRDINGWORLD.CO.UK>
Date: 15 Oct 2002 11:37am

Hi

Very interesting and welcome news on the sympatric breeding of Lesser
Black-backed and Canarian Yellow-legged Gull.

Just today I read a 'Trends in systematics' article by Pierre Yesou (Dutch
Birding 24, p271-298) which  addresses the taxonomy of the large,
white-headed gulls.
PY suggests that "It is wise to restrict the use of the name -atlantis- to
the birds breeding in the Azores, as Dwight originally did"

Those taxa breeding on the Canaries and the Atlantic coasts of Spain and NW
Africa seem to differ demonstrably from the Azorean -atlantis-, yet their
relationship to Mediterranean -michahellis- remains unclear.

More study is required to clarify the situation, but it would appear that,
in the meantime, any reference to the 'Atlantic' Yellow-legged Gull
population(s) must also include a geographical qualifier!
E.g. 'Moroccan', 'Cantabriican', 'Portuguese' or, in this case, 'Canarian'
Yellow-legged Gull (L. michahellis ssp?).

cheers
Richard
PS
Mirroring what I think has already been mentioned on this forum, the same
article grants American Herring Gull full species status -L. smithsonianus-.

sales(AT)birdingworld.co.uk
(Birding World, Books for Birders & Birdline)
Bird Information Service, Stonerunner, Coast Road,
Cley next the Sea, Holt, Norfolk, NR25 7RZ, UK
Tel. 44 (0) 1263 741139  Fax. 741173
Website www.birdingworld.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: pabuckley <pabuckley(AT)URI.EDU>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
Date: 15 October 2002 18:54
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Taxonomic status of_atlantis_ Yellow-legged Gull

>The taxonomic status of the yellow-legged, large white-headed gull
>breeding on the Macaronesian Islands of Madeira, the Azores, and the
>Canaries (_atlantis_) has had a checkered history. It has at various
>times been considered a race of Herring Gull, of Yellow-legged Gull,
>and even of Lesser Black-backed Gull.
>
>As molecular studies of large gulls around the world have accelerated
>in recent years, shedding light and offering new insights and
>testable hypotheses, field work has also moved along, but the
>ultimate test of biological species rank --- reproductive isolation
>between sympatric populations --- has proven elusive in many cases
>because the gulls remained allopatric.
>
>A small but significant exception to that pattern was recently
>published in WATERBIRDS 25: 388-389 (2002). This short paper (by J.M.
>Grande and C.-J. Palacios) reports a 2000-km jump southward in the
>breeding range of  _graellsii_ Lesser Black-backed Gulls, but what
>commands attention is that it occurred on Alegranza and Montaa
>Islands, just north of Lanzarote Island, in the Canaries. Here in
>June 2001, 5-6 pairs of _graellsii_ nested within a colony of
>_atlantis_ Yellow-legged Gulls with no evidence of interbreeding,
>mixed pairs, interspecific courtship, or hybrids; at least one pair
>of _graellsii_ apparently fledged young.
>
>This is the first instance of sympatry between _graellsii_ and
>Macaronesian _atlantis_ I am aware of, and indicates strongly that
>whatever oceanic  _atlantis_ might be (a race of _michahellis_ or
>possibly a species in its own right), it is a separate biological
>species from _graellsii_. ['Yellow-legged Gulls' on the Atlantic
>coast of the Iberian Peninsula, considered by some to be _atlantis_,
>by others _michahellis_ and 'otherwise' by still others, are already
>known to breed sympatrically with _graellsii_.]
>
>
>--
>P.A. Buckley
>Box 8 @ Graduate School of Oceanography
>University of Rhode Island
>Narragansett RI 02882
>
>01-401-874-4201    (office)
>01-401-874-6887    (fax)
>01-401-792-3451    (home)
>pabuckley(AT)uri.edu  (email)
>
>'In the fields of observation, chance favors only the mind that is
>prepared.'  --- Louis Pasteur


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Subject: Re: Taxonimic Status atlantis
From: Nick Rossiter <nrossiter(AT)SUPANET.COM>
Date: 15 Oct 2002 3:30pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

> Just today I read a 'Trends in systematics' article by Pierre Yesou =
(Dutch

> Birding 24, p271-298) which addresses the taxonomy of the large,

> white-headed gulls.

> PY suggests that "It is wise to restrict the use of the name =
-atlantis- to

> the birds breeding in the Azores, as Dwight originally did"

Except Dwight did not do this, Richard.=20

Dwight in his 1922 paper Description of a New Race of the LBBG from the =
Azores, Amer Mus Novitates no. 44 includes two specimens from the =
Canaries in his original atlantis specimens.=20

In his mammoth paper The Gulls of the World 1925 he writes at p.208-210:

atlantis [which he called above the Azorean Lesser Black-backed Gull] is =
resident on the islands and coasts of north-western Africa including the =
Azores, Madeira, Canary and perhaps the Cape Verde Islands.=20

>=20

> Those taxa breeding on the Canaries and the Atlantic coasts of Spain =
and NW

> Africa seem to differ demonstrably from the Azorean -atlantis-, yet =
their

> relationship to Mediterranean -michahellis- remains unclear.

All Atlantic forms are structurally similar to each other and quite =
different from the Mediterranean michahellis. Note that Dwight's range =
above includes the Moroccan coast and corresponds very closely to the =
range of the Dark Atlantic Yellow-legged Gull of my studies which I am =
tending to call southern atlantis now to fit in with the DNA work of =
Liebers. Liebers et al actually found significant DNA divergence between =
southern atlantis and michahellis (michahellis separating from atlantis =
250,000-500,00 years ago) and thought that the Azores form was closer to =
michahellis.=20

>=20

> More study is required to clarify the situation, but it would appear =
that,

> in the meantime, any reference to the 'Atlantic' Yellow-legged Gull

> population(s) must also include a geographical qualifier!

> E.g. 'Moroccan', 'Cantabriican', 'Portuguese' or, in this case, =
'Canarian'

> Yellow-legged Gull (L. michahellis ssp?).

I certainly agree with the need for geographical qualification as the =
Atlantic forms are not homogenous. But not necessarily to such a fine =
extent. Southern atlantis (Canaries, Madeira, Atlantic Morocco, south =
Portugal), northern atlantis (west Portugal and north-west Spain), =
Azores and Cantabrica seem sufficient groupings for most purposes. More =
study is obviously wanted as well but really there is quite a lot of =
information in the public domain now for people to peruse.=20

It's a very major tribute to Dwight that his grouping in 1925 seems to =
be being confirmed by morphological and DNA studies, although the =
precise grouping of the Azores form remains problematical.=20

Cheers ... Nick

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Subject: Re: Taxonimic Status atlantis
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 15 Oct 2002 3:56pm

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----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

  Nick wrote:It's a very major tribute to Dwight that his grouping in =
1925 seems to be being confirmed by morphological and DNA studies, =
although the precise grouping of the Azores form remains problematical. =
<
  I entirely agree with Nick's praise for Dwight. Perhaps, to honour =
him, we should call the Atlantic Gull: Dwight's Atlantic Gull!
  Norman

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Subject: Brown Pelicans on the Great Lakes -- 2002
From: Alan Wormington <wormington(AT)JUNO.COM>
Date: 16 Oct 2002 12:25pm

Brown Pelicans on the Great Lakes -- 2002:

I am in the process of compiling all observations of Brown Pelicans on
the Great Lakes during 2002.

Although there have been many observations, the number of birds that are
actually involved is less than what most people are thinking.  For
example, I have photos demonstrating that one certain bird is really
making the rounds.

What I am requesting is detailed information on any sightings on the
Great Lakes for 2002, including location, dates, ages (plumage), etc.
Also, I am creating a file of photographs of all sightings, which are
proving to be of great value for comparative purposes.

If you have sightings and / or any photographs, please e-mail them to me
privately.  These might eventually be used in a planned article in
*Birders Journal*

To date I have not heard of any sightings upstream (north of) Lake Erie,
with the exception of a sighting in Marquette County, Michigan.

Many thanks for your participation.

Alan Wormington
Leamington, Ontario


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Subject: Re: Taxonimic Status atlantis
From: Florida Nature Tours <fnt(AT)GDI.NET>
Date: 16 Oct 2002 2:31pm

 Norman, Nick & All,

 Dwight ranks right up there as one of the most brilliant ornithologists
 of his day, or of any day for that matter. I've always thought that all
 will never be right with the world until a bird (a gull would be most
 fitting), is named in his honor. How does one get the ball rolling on
 this?

 Wes Biggs
 Florida Nature Tours, Orlando  407/363-1360  fnt(AT)gdi.net
 http://www.floridanaturetours.com   ABA sponsored


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Subject: Re: Taxonimic Status atlantis
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 16 Oct 2002 4:41pm

Wes Biggs:>  Dwight ranks right up there as one of the most brilliant
ornithologists
>  of his day, or of any day for that matter. I've always thought that all
>  will never be right with the world until a bird (a gull would be most
>  fitting), is named in his honor. How does one get the ball rolling on
>  this?<

Well, try to convince the American records committee for starters. You will
have to make a choice first between f.i. Dwight's Gull or Dwight's Atlantic
Gull (L.atlantis). Why not have all subscribers of Frontiers vote on this.
You can also choose another species and rename it of course. Someone has to
serve as ballot box. Any volunteers?
Norman


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Subject: RFH: Identifying Cassin's Vireos in the Fall
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 19 Oct 2002 7:21pm

Dear all,
We had an most educational yet rather frustrating discussion on ID-F this
Spring about separating (or not!) CAVi and BHVI by song - largely because
the worn/faded Spring plumage rendered the subtle differences treacherous.
Now it is Fall, and I am wondering about variation in fresh-plumaged
BHVIs.  I found three candidate CAVIs recently.  The first, on Sept 19, was
close to the extreme end of CAVI, having a virtually olive head with no
head/back contrast and almost no throat/cheek contrast (interestingly, it
was wing-flicking like crazy)  I got one crappy photo of it, that barely
confirms it as a SOVI:
http://www.martinreid.com/cavi.html  It was seen and described by another
birder, and I'm not worried about this one - it's the other two I'm
concerned with:- These were grayish-headed, but paler than BHVIs and with
very poor cheek/throat delineation (in my opinion.)  I got some photos of
the first of the two on October 7th (the second bird was the next day at a
different location, and was essentially identical; both birds were near a
"normal" BHVi that looked strikingly different in comparison: much
darker-headed and with strong white throat against dark cheeks; they were
both more active than the BHVIs, and did a few wing-flicks - but not as
much as the Sept bird).):
http://www.martinreid.com/cavi2.html
I've received contradictory views about this bird so far, so I'd like to
see what you think of it.  Would you be happy to call it a CAVI in the
normal range of CAVI? - if yes, does it show enough to call it a CAVi in
North-central Texas?  I wrote full notes on this bird (which was quite
cooperative.)  Can FALL BHVIs look like this?  I keep reminding myself that
almost all public photos of CAVI are of Spring birds, and I'm expecting
Fall birds to be "easier" to separate; am I fooling myself?
Looking forward to your input,
Martin

Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com


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Subject: Passerina bunting UT coverts
From: Marcy Scott <Mtscott44(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 19 Oct 2002 7:41pm

Last month (September 12) a Passerina bunting that I believe to have been an
adult female Varied Bunting paid a brief visit to our yard, which is along
the Rio Grande 4 miles south of Radium Springs and ~12 miles north of Las
Cruces, New Mexico.  The bird perched at a distance of about 50' and was
observed for about 2 minutes with B&L Elite 8 x 42 binoculars.  The bird was
slightly above me, perched on a dead mulberry twig, and was facing me in
excellent light.  The folded tail was straight at the tip.  There was a
slight curve to the culmen at both the base and tip of the bill.  The bird's
head, back, wings and tail were an overall rich buffy brown, with no
discernible wing bars, just a thin cream-buff edge showing of the wing
lining.  The throat, breast, flanks, and belly were a slightly paler tone of
warm buff and were unmarked. What was most distinctive (to me at least) were
the bird's undertail coverts. They were noticeably paler than the breast
color, almost creamy white and with contrasting gray-brown markings that
seemed slightly teardrop-shaped in the centers of the feathers.  The overall
effect was an upside-down pyramid of at least 3 rows of these feathers, with
3, 2, and then 1 per row.  I sketched this pattern after seeing the bird and
may try scanning the drawing if this description seems unclear.

After the bird flew I looked at every photo and illustration I could find,
and no field guide that I have mentions this plumage pattern for any bunting.
 (I should say that I do not have Pyle's book).  I then looked at the
available abstracts on Passerina buntings in The Birds of North America, and
the one on Varied Bunting, No. 351, by Kathleen D. Groschupf and Christopher
W. Thompson, does mention what sounds like this pattern, in their description
of Definitive Alternate plumage of females: "...undertail-coverts, abdomen,
and middle of breast Pale Cartridge Buff or Cream Buff, but undertail-coverts
have light Grayish Olive centers (p. 15)."  The description is of the
nominate subspecies versicolor, and while overall coloration nuances are
noted for dickeyae and pulchra, they do not pertain to the undertail coverts.

None of the other Passerina abstracts mentions this plumage detail, and I am
curious as to whether this is a characteristic unique to Varied Buntings,
i.e. a valid field mark.  I am a total novice when it comes to this species,
having seen fewer than 20 individuals in my life (most of them in Guadalupe
Canyon, southeast AZ) and admittedly I was much more fascinated with the
males on those occasions!  I have had more experience with Indigo and Painted
Buntings, and some also with Lazulis, but have never noted marked undertails
on any of them.

Thanks very much in advance for any light anyone may be able to shed on this
plumage characteristic.

Marcy Scott
Radium Springs, New Mexico
Mtscott44(AT)aol.com