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ID-FRONTIERS for November 1-9, 2002
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Re: the Mass. juv. Pluvialis plover - and images | Martin Reid | Fri, 1 Nov 2002 | 5:55am |
| Oiled shorebird ID | Floyd Hayes | Fri, 1 Nov 2002 | 9:29am |
| Odd Coots in the Caribbean | Floyd Hayes | Fri, 1 Nov 2002 | 10:02am |
| Washington Icterid | Peter Burke | Fri, 1 Nov 2002 | 12:33pm |
| Re: the Mass. juv. Pluvialis plover - and images | Steve Sosensky | Fri, 1 Nov 2002 | 1:55pm |
| Re: A Plegadis Ibis from Wisconsin | Steven Mlodinow | Fri, 1 Nov 2002 | 11:56pm |
| Re: the Mass. juv. Pluvialis plover - and images | Barb Beck | Sat, 2 Nov 2002 | 1:18pm |
| Re: Oiled shorebird ID | John Saba | Sat, 2 Nov 2002 | 3:39pm |
| Re: Oiled shorebird ID | Floyd Hayes | Sun, 3 Nov 2002 | 8:18am |
| Last day | Michel Bertrand | Mon, 4 Nov 2002 | 10:03am |
| Re: [megabirds] UK mega Nearctic birds (fwd) | Ian Paulsen | Mon, 4 Nov 2002 | 11:24am |
| grackle photos (fwd) | Ian Paulsen | Mon, 4 Nov 2002 | 6:21pm |
| What species is this pipit? | David A. Cahlander | Mon, 4 Nov 2002 | 11:43pm |
| Re: What species is this pipit? | Martin | Tue, 5 Nov 2002 | 8:48am |
| Interesting Merganser | Jo Heindel | Tue, 5 Nov 2002 | 9:47am |
| Re: What species is this pipit? | Colin Bradshaw | Tue, 5 Nov 2002 | 3:07pm |
| Re: Interesting Merganser | Kenn Kaufman | Tue, 5 Nov 2002 | 5:11pm |
| Re: What species is this pipit? | David A. Cahlander | Tue, 5 Nov 2002 | 9:38pm |
| SE North Carolina Kingbird | Ricky Davis | Wed, 6 Nov 2002 | 5:04am |
| Re: SE North Carolina Kingbird | John Saba | Wed, 6 Nov 2002 | 6:31am |
| Re: SE North Carolina Kingbird | Bruce H Anderson | Wed, 6 Nov 2002 | 7:15am |
| Re: SE North Carolina Kingbird | Guenther, Michael E. | Wed, 6 Nov 2002 | 7:18am |
| FW: Lenoir Selasphorus hummingbird photos on web
site | Brenda Best | Wed, 6 Nov 2002 | 5:15pm |
| Re: SE North Carolina Kingbird | Floyd Hayes | Thu, 7 Nov 2002 | 1:37pm |
| "Sooty" Fox Sparrow photos from Arizona | Gary Rosenberg | Fri, 8 Nov 2002 | 8:11am |
| Re: "Sooty" Fox Sparrow photos from Arizona | Mike Patterson | Fri, 8 Nov 2002 | 8:39am |
| Re: "Sooty" Fox Sparrow photos from Arizona | Beck, Michael | Fri, 8 Nov 2002 | 9:07am |
| AGP x PGP | Tristan Reid | Fri, 8 Nov 2002 | 2:08pm |
| Re: FW: Lenoir Selasphorus hummingbird photos on
web site | Nicholas Block | Sat, 9 Nov 2002 | 12:04pm |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
|
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: the Mass. juv. Pluvialis plover - and images
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 1 Nov 2002 5:55am
Dear Julian et al,
I'm glad that you took no offence, as certainly none was meant.
I strongly agree with your sentiment concerning false impressions created
by computer monitors. I'd like to encourage those who use the phrase "on
my screen it..." to include a brief statement of your screen type - e.g.:-
On my screen (17" crt) the Mass plover looked typical AMGP color except for
the head, which had striking and contrasting large areas of yellow, not
buff, on it.
"crt" is cathode ray tube, i.e. the typical deep-backed monitor used on
most desktop PCs; Most laptops use a digital flats-creen that can render
images quite differently.
The last piece of the jigsaw is for the creators of the images to tell us
what size/type of screen they were created-on. even on crts, an image that
looked exactly like the original when created on a 15" screen will look
washed-out and "color-flat" on a 17" crt - and even worse on a larger
screen. Similarly those images will look dark and underexposed when viewed
on a smaller monitor than that used to create them.
Lastly, it is reasonable to assume that creators of images attempt to get
the images to look as close as possible to the originals on their screen
without resorting to any selective image adjustments. if the final results
do not reflect the original image of the actual bird in life (assuming the
image creator saw the bird in life), it behooves the provider to make this
clear in their comments.
Sorry to prattle on about this, but given the explosion of "ID by computer
image" underway, it is important that the variables are expressed to allow
proper assessment.
Cheers,
Martin
At 10/31/2002 03:12 PM -0500, you wrote:
>In regard to Martin's statement, I take no offence, but I have noticed
>recently, especially with "orange-billed" Tern photos posted to the
>listserv, that it is easy to gain a false impression of colour and jizz
>with some pictures, depending on quality and resolution.
>Looking at the photos of the bird on my screen, I didn't get the
>impression of any striking yellowness about the head: to me, on my screen,
>it shows as a yellow-buff tint to the supercilium and paler areas of the head.
>
>Also, I would not really describe the bill as bulbous;it appears
>fractionally longer than some dominicas, but doesn't draw my attention.
>
>Compared to the earlier individual Martin posted pictures of, I still feel
>that this bird is not too unusal.
>
>
>Julian Hough
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Oiled shorebird ID
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 1 Nov 2002 9:29am
Photos of an obviously oiled shorebird whose
identification has been disputed (Lesser Yellowlegs vs
Stilt Sandpiper) are posted at:
http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttmysteryshorebird
Any comments would be appreciated.
-Floyd
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Odd Coots in the Caribbean
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 1 Nov 2002 10:02am
Those interested in ID of American vs Caribbean Coot
may be interested in seeing a few photos from St.
Croix, US Virgin Islands, at:
http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/idamericancaribbeancoot
I thank Don Roberson for assisting me in getting a few
details straightened out. I'm interested in gathering
information on any observations of coots (descriptions
of individuals, courtship and breeding behavior,
breeding records, etc.), in the Caribbean.
=====
Floyd E. Hayes
Wildlife Biologist
Division of Fish and Wildlife, 6291 Estate Nazareth,
St. Thomas, Virgin Islands 00802, USA
Tel: 340-775-6762; Fax: 340-775-3972
Website: http://www.geocities.com/floyd_hayes
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Washington Icterid
From: Peter Burke <peter.burke2(AT)SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 1 Nov 2002 12:33pm
I'm inclined to agree with Dennis Paulson's comments about the large
icterid
in Washington State.
I think the plumage resembles a female Great-tailed Grackle, especially
the
more eastern North American subspecies Q.m.prosopidicola or Central American
forms such as Q.m.mexicanus but certainly not the southwestern form,
Q.m. nelsoni which is a much browner, paler bird, especially on the
underparts and face.
However, it also reminds me of a first basic male Brewer's Blackbird
especially in its supercilary pattern and more "barred" appearance on the
face, not unlike some male Rusty Blackbirds in fresh basic plumage.
Furthermore, the malar is darker and less contrasting with the auriculars
than what one should see on a female Great-tailed Grackle; typically it is
light buff-orange and there is a strong, but thin malar stripe that runs
from the lower mandible.On this bird, the supercilium appears to be the
lightest part on the head, not consistent with what I'd expect on
prosopidicola or even mexicanus.
The bill is also somewhat in between a Euphagus and Quiscalus; not as
long a grackle's but more powerful and
hooked at the tip than a Euphagus appears to me. It also looks very thick at
the base, whereas a Grackle's bill should seem more equal in width
throughout its length.
The body coloration seems to be a flat dark khaki or brownish-green, not
brightly glossed like a Brewer's and certainly
within the spectrum for a Great-tailed's body coloration. I would expect a
more strongly glossed turquoise coloration to the mantle and wing coverts
for a male Brewer's (even with the brown edgings of a first basic bird) but
in some lighting conditions female Great-tailed will appear glossed
turquoise weakly. Brewer's strike me as long legged beasts so the fact that
it is has long tarsi doesn't necessarily eliminate Brewer's but it does have
a Grackle's leg length and gait for sure. Finally, it seems shorter tailed
without even a hint of a keel like a female Great-tailed should show but the
angles of the photos could be responsible for these qualities. Having said
that, it seems too long tailed for a Brewer's and in general the whole body
appears long and bulky, almost like a Brewer's on steroids....
In all, I'd have to say that this bird shows features of a possible
hybrid Brewer's Blackbird X Great-tailed Grackle. I hesitate to guess on
the sex as it has features of a male Brewer's and female Great-tailed.
Common Grackle doesn't seem a likely candidate for involvement as this bird
is too bulky and has no suggestion of the bronzed gloss on the back or
bright violets and thalo blues on the nape that Quiscalus quiscala
versicolor (Bronzed Grackle) would likely contribute.
Looking forward to hearing more input!
Peter Burke
13 McKenzie Ave.
London, ON
N6C 1V1
Canada
peter.burke2(AT)sympatico.ca
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: the Mass. juv. Pluvialis plover - and images
From: Steve Sosensky <Steve(AT)SOSENSKY.COM>
Date: 1 Nov 2002 1:55pm
At 06:56 AM 11/1/2002 -0600, Martin Reid wrote:
>The last piece of the jigsaw is for the creators of the images to tell us
>what size/type of screen they were created-on. even on crts, an image that
>looked exactly like the original when created on a 15" screen will look
>washed-out and "color-flat" on a 17" crt - and even worse on a larger
>screen. Similarly those images will look dark and underexposed when viewed
>on a smaller monitor than that used to create them.
Martin,
I have to take issue with this statement as it ignores several screen
parameters. I've been researching LCD screens lately, and their parameters
include max. brightness and contrast. 15" screens, in general, have worse
dot pitch, lower max. brightness, and lower contrast. If you really want to
know how someone else sees an image on their monitor, you need to know
these details, too. With a 17" LCD screen with 400:1 contrast ratio, 350
cd/m^2 brightness, and .264 dot pitch, you will get a less washed-out image
than a 15" LCD with 300:1 contrast, 250 cd/m^2 brightness, and .297 dot pitch.
Good birding,
Steve <mailto:steve(AT)sosensky.com> for general use
<mailto:mobile(AT)sosensky.com> for rare birds and emergencies only
Steve Sosensky, photographer www.sosensky.com
10834 Blix Street #213 818-508-4946
Toluca Lake, CA 91602 34:09:23.411 N, 118:21:56.678 W
Audubon in So. California www.SoCalAudubon.org/socal/
San Fernando Valley AS www.SanFernandoValleyAudubon.org/sfvas/
AIM ID: SteveS310 Yahoo Messenger ID: SteveSosensky
SoCal FRS: use channel 11 code 22
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: A Plegadis Ibis from Wisconsin
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 1 Nov 2002 11:56pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Greetings All
Just got back from Baja California's Cape Region, where all (or nearly all)
of the plegadis ibis are White-faced. Many showed this amount of bordering to
the facial skin, so I suspect that such is not an indicator of Glossy Ibis on
the bird in question.
Cheers
SteveMlodinow
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: the Mass. juv. Pluvialis plover - and images
From: Barb Beck <barb(AT)BIRDNUT.OBTUSE.COM>
Date: 2 Nov 2002 1:18pm
Ideally if one wants a reliable reproduction of a photo the picture is
scanned with a color strip (available at photography stores) and the person
looking at the picture also has the strip to adjust the color on their
monitor.
Barb Beck
Edmonton
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu]On Behalf Of Martin Reid
Sent: November 1, 2002 5:56 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] the Mass. juv. Pluvialis plover - and images
Dear Julian et al,
I'm glad that you took no offence, as certainly none was meant.
I strongly agree with your sentiment concerning false impressions created
by computer monitors. I'd like to encourage those who use the phrase "on
my screen it..." to include a brief statement of your screen type - e.g.:-
On my screen (17" crt) the Mass plover looked typical AMGP color except for
the head, which had striking and contrasting large areas of yellow, not
buff, on it.
"crt" is cathode ray tube, i.e. the typical deep-backed monitor used on
most desktop PCs; Most laptops use a digital flats-creen that can render
images quite differently.
The last piece of the jigsaw is for the creators of the images to tell us
what size/type of screen they were created-on. even on crts, an image that
looked exactly like the original when created on a 15" screen will look
washed-out and "color-flat" on a 17" crt - and even worse on a larger
screen. Similarly those images will look dark and underexposed when viewed
on a smaller monitor than that used to create them.
Lastly, it is reasonable to assume that creators of images attempt to get
the images to look as close as possible to the originals on their screen
without resorting to any selective image adjustments. if the final results
do not reflect the original image of the actual bird in life (assuming the
image creator saw the bird in life), it behooves the provider to make this
clear in their comments.
Sorry to prattle on about this, but given the explosion of "ID by computer
image" underway, it is important that the variables are expressed to allow
proper assessment.
Cheers,
Martin
At 10/31/2002 03:12 PM -0500, you wrote:
>In regard to Martin's statement, I take no offence, but I have noticed
>recently, especially with "orange-billed" Tern photos posted to the
>listserv, that it is easy to gain a false impression of colour and jizz
>with some pictures, depending on quality and resolution.
>Looking at the photos of the bird on my screen, I didn't get the
>impression of any striking yellowness about the head: to me, on my screen,
>it shows as a yellow-buff tint to the supercilium and paler areas of the
head.
>
>Also, I would not really describe the bill as bulbous;it appears
>fractionally longer than some dominicas, but doesn't draw my attention.
>
>Compared to the earlier individual Martin posted pictures of, I still feel
>that this bird is not too unusal.
>
>
>Julian Hough
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Oiled shorebird ID
From: John Saba <sabaj(AT)THERIVER.COM>
Date: 2 Nov 2002 3:39pm
Floyd Hayes writes:
>> Photos of an obviously oiled shorebird whose
>> identification has been disputed (Lesser Yellowlegs
>> vs Stilt Sandpiper) are posted at:
>> http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttmysteryshorebird
IMO the following features are inconsistent with Lesser Yellowlegs:
1) the size of the bird;
2) the size and shape of the bill, including its length, thickness at base,
and slight droop at tip.
Also, the barring on the tail seems more suggestive of Stilt Sandpiper than
Lesser Yellowlegs.
I see no reason to suspect that the bird is a Lesser Yellowlegs.
---
John Saba
sabaj(AT)theriver.com
http://personal.riverusers.com/~sabaj/
(520) 327-3643
Tucson, Arizona USA
Birding is a Grand Adventure!
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Oiled shorebird ID
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 3 Nov 2002 8:18am
I thank the ten respondents who unanimously identified
the bird as a Stilt Sandpiper. An anonymous colleague
now concurs: "How can I refute such a wealth of
opinion !!!"
-Floyd
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Last day
From: Michel Bertrand <bertrmi(AT)COLBA.NET>
Date: 4 Nov 2002 10:03am
Hi,
If you were plannig to answer the QuébecOiseaux quiz and still haven't,
don't forget today (November 4th) is the last day. I have given that
deadline by mistake (it was supposed to be before October 5th) and we must
respect it. But I will have to complete the new article for the magazine in
a very short time after making the draws for the prizes. I had posted to
this list a translation of the French text of the website when announcing
the Défi 24 for a first time on September 7th.
The URL is in my signature, hereafter.
Good luck... Bonne chance...
MICHEL BERTRAND
Sainte-Julie, Qc
bertrmi(AT)colba.net
N'oubliez pas d'identifier l'oiseau mystère :
Don't forget to identify the mystery bird at :
http://www.quebecoiseaux.qc.ca/HTML/Defi.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: [megabirds] UK mega Nearctic birds (fwd)
From: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 4 Nov 2002 11:24am
HI ALL:
Could this be a Bicknell's Thrush??
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 07:26:07 -0000
From: Simon Woolley <skw(AT)wincoll.ac.uk>
To: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)krl.org>
Subject: RE: [megabirds] UK mega Nearctic birds
Over to you, Ian - the pics are at
http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery9.
It looks like a Grey-cheeked to me....
Simon
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Paulsen [mailto:ipaulsen(AT)krl.org]
Sent: 03 November 2002 19:03
To: Simon Woolley
Subject: Re: [megabirds] UK mega Nearctic birds
HI Simon:
How come it isn't a Bicknell's Thrush??
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: grackle photos (fwd)
From: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 4 Nov 2002 6:21pm
HI:
More on the mystery grackle from WA State!!
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:44:59 -0800
From: Dennis Paulson <dpaulson(AT)ups.edu>
To: tweeters(AT)u.washington.edu
Subject: grackle photos
For all those who still claim the Supermall Grackbird looks just like a
Great-tailed Grackle, I present exhibit A, B, C, and D - photos of
female specimens of Great-tailed and Boat-tailed grackles. These
photos can be found at
http://www.ups.edu/biology/museum/landbirdphotos.html. Note how *very*
different the bills of these birds are than the grackbird. Also note
none of them shows very much of what you could call black on its
plumage. Females of the subspecies <italic>nelsoni</italic> of the
Great-tailed are slightly smaller and paler beneath than the subspecies
<italic>monsoni</italic>. Females of some of the Mexican subspecies
are said to be slightly darker than the US ones, but "slightly darker"
isn't dark enough for the grackbird.
An interesting question was raised by Robin Panza, who furnished the
photos. If this is a female hybrid, how can it be so dark? Females of
Brewer's and Great-tailed are both brown, so a hybrid between them
shouldn't show much in the way of black! Males are black, so it
certainly isn't a male hybrid. Robin suggested an interesting but
purely speculative explanation:
"The "default gender" for birds is male. Females with ovarian problems
switch to male or partially-male-like plumage (I know a captive female
Evening Grosbeak that changed to full male plumage and even began
singing every spring when her ovary failed). A female hybrid might
have poorly-functioning gonads (even be sterile), with inadequate
female hormones to have "proper" female plumage. That might explain
the female head with blackish body.
Or, hybridization can lead to a breakdown in control gene systems. The
classic industrial melanism moth (Biston betularia) behaved like a
single-locus, simple-dominance gene for the melanistic form, if one did
breeding experiments at a single locality. However, when moths from
different localities were bred, all sorts of intermediates showed up,
like a polygenic trait. Similarly, when wild-type mallards mate with
white domestic ducks, all sorts of oddball plumages result. All the
wierd hybrid mallard/white plumages I've seen were male-like, but I
wonder if that's because all were male or the mixed-up genotype
produced male-like plumage.
So maybe it's a female, but its parents are too different for a simple
blending of parental traits. Just a thought."
Ian, could you please forward this to the bird ID lists? Thanks.
Dennis
Dennis Paulson, Director phone 253-879-3798
Slater Museum of Natural History fax 253-879-3352
University of Puget Sound e-mail
dpaulson(AT)ups.edu
1500 N. Warner, #1088
Tacoma, WA 98416-1088
http://www.ups.edu/biology/museum/museum.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: What species is this pipit?
From: "David A. Cahlander" <david(AT)CAHLANDER.COM>
Date: 4 Nov 2002 11:43pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
I have been trying to identify one of the pipits that I photgraphed in =
Hong Kong on a recent trip, on Oct 19, 2002. These are taken in "Long =
Valley" in Hong Kong. This is a garden area. I have 2 different =
identifications of the bird.
http://www.cahlander.com/jpeg/hongkong.htm
---
David Cahlander david(AT)cahlander.com Burnsville, MN 952-894-5910
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: What species is this pipit?
From: Martin <martin.go(AT)VIRGIN.NET>
Date: 5 Nov 2002 8:48am
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
It looks like a Red-throated Pipit (Anthus cervinus) to me
Cheers
Martin Garner
----- Original Message -----=20
From: David A. Cahlander=20
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu=20
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 6:43 AM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] What species is this pipit?
I have been trying to identify one of the pipits that I photgraphed in =
Hong Kong on a recent trip, on Oct 19, 2002. These are taken in "Long =
Valley" in Hong Kong. This is a garden area. I have 2 different =
identifications of the bird.
http://www.cahlander.com/jpeg/hongkong.htm
---
David Cahlander david(AT)cahlander.com Burnsville, MN 952-894-5910
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Interesting Merganser
From: Jo Heindel <Tjheindel(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 5 Nov 2002 9:47am
On 1 Nov an interesting merganser was found at Furnace Creek Ranch, Death
Valley National Park, CA. It was still there through at least 4 Nov. A number
of qualified observers have been unable to put a name to this bird. Four
close-up pictures can be found at <
http://esaudubon.org/birds/photos/index.htm>. No flight pictures are
available but the white in the wing included all the secondaries and coverts
forward of the secondaries to the leading edge of the wing. Two observers saw
a thin black line forming a bar located where the tips of the greater
secondary coverts would occur. Some intriguing suggestions have been made
regarding the identity of this bird but we felt that this is the appropriate
forum for this mystery. Cheers, Tom & Jo Heindel
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: What species is this pipit?
From: Colin Bradshaw <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)BTINTERNET.COM>
Date: 5 Nov 2002 3:07pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
I agree with martin. Despite the lack of very obvious wing bars it looks
like RTP to me as well
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu]On Behalf Of Martin
Sent: 05 November 2002 15:43 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] What species is this pipit?
It looks like a Red-throated Pipit (Anthus cervinus) to me
Cheers
Martin Garner
----- Original Message -----
From: David A. Cahlander
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 6:43 AM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] What species is this pipit?
I have been trying to identify one of the pipits that I photgraphed in
Hong Kong on a recent trip, on Oct 19, 2002. These are taken in "Long
Valley" in Hong Kong. This is a garden area. I have 2 different
identifications of the bird.
http://www.cahlander.com/jpeg/hongkong.htm
---
David Cahlander david(AT)cahlander.com Burnsville, MN 952-894-5910
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Interesting Merganser
From: Kenn Kaufman <kennk(AT)IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: 5 Nov 2002 5:11pm
Unless we're going to entertain the notion of Chinese Merganser (M.
squamatus -- which I believe would have a bill structure more like that
of Red-breasted), then at the species level this is clearly a Common
Merganser, as indicated by the bill shape, arrangement of feathers at the
base of the upper mandible, and position of the nostril almost halfway
out the bill, as well as the sharp division between brown and gray on the
neck plumage. The depth of the bill at the base suggests the expected
subspecies, M. m. americanus. Therefore, I presume that the controversy
has to do with the age and sex of the bird. The amount of white
described for the wing would indicate that the bird is a male and would
suggest that it's probably an adult; the deep red color of the bill (at
least on my monitor) would suggest an adult also. So my guess is that
it's a Common Merganser of the expected North American race and that it's
a male just coming out of basic (eclipse) plumage. If Peter Pyle has
gone through the ducks in his research for Volume II, he can probably
look at these pix and say what the bird is with certainty.
Anyway, great photos and interesting-looking bird.
Kenn Kaufman
Tucson, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jo Heindel" <Tjheindel(AT)AOL.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:47 AM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Interesting Merganser
> On 1 Nov an interesting merganser was found at Furnace Creek Ranch,
Death
> Valley National Park, CA. It was still there through at least 4 Nov. A
number
> of qualified observers have been unable to put a name to this bird.
Four
> close-up pictures can be found at <
> http://esaudubon.org/birds/photos/index.htm>. No flight pictures are
> available but the white in the wing included all the secondaries and
coverts
> forward of the secondaries to the leading edge of the wing. Two
observers saw
> a thin black line forming a bar located where the tips of the greater
> secondary coverts would occur. Some intriguing suggestions have been
made
> regarding the identity of this bird but we felt that this is the
appropriate
> forum for this mystery. Cheers, Tom & Jo Heindel
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: What species is this pipit?
From: "David A. Cahlander" <david(AT)CAHLANDER.COM>
Date: 5 Nov 2002 9:38pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
All answers to the pipit question are for Red-throated Pipit (Anthus =
cervinus). The quide that I was with in Hong Kong identified this as a =
Richard's Pipit (Anthus richardi). I really do not know, but I did =
noticed the long hind claw, and was favoring the Richard's Pipit.
http://www.cahlander.com/jpeg/hongkong.htm
Thanks for all the response.
---
David Cahlander david(AT)cahlander.com Burnsville, MN 952-894-5910
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: SE North Carolina Kingbird
From: Ricky Davis <RJDNC(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 6 Nov 2002 5:04am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi all,
I am requesting some help with the ID of a Kingbird found for one day in
southeastern North Carolina near Southport (Brunswick County). Gene Howe,
Greg Massey, Sam Cooper and others observed the bird during the afternoon of
Nov. 2, 2002. The bird has caused considerable debate as to its identity here
in NC, where individuals in this plumage are practically never seen. Also
depictions in field guides are quite nonexistent. I have my own ideas about
this bird, but would like to hear from others with more experience with this
group of kingbirds. Photos are available for viewing at the following site:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~mvbiii/kingbird.html
Any ideas, suggestions, or downright identifications would be most welcome.
Hopefully you will have the question - What's the problem?! Thanks in
advance, Ricky
Ricky Davis
NC Bird Records Committe
NAB-Sou. Atlantic Regional Ed.
Rocky Mount, NC
RJDNC(AT)aol.com
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: SE North Carolina Kingbird
From: John Saba <sabaj(AT)THERIVER.COM>
Date: 6 Nov 2002 6:31am
I lean toward Gray Kingbird, based on the length of the bill, black mask,
the shape of the white on the neck under the eye, and the clear breast. The
tail is hard to see clearly, but appears to be notched in some pics. The
brown coloration may indicate a juvenile bird.
Some photos appear to show white at the tip of the tail, but this may be
light passing through the feather tips.
From the photos, I find it hard to judge the primary extension.
I can't imagine this bird being an Eastern Kingbird.
---
John Saba
sabaj(AT)theriver.com
http://personal.riverusers.com/~sabaj/
(520) 327-3643
Tucson, Arizona USA
Birding is a Grand Adventure!
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: SE North Carolina Kingbird
From: Bruce H Anderson <Scizortail(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 6 Nov 2002 7:15am
I agree; looks like a Gray Kingbird to me. I do not see anything about the bird
that would make me consider Loggerhead, Giant,or Thick-billed, and it is not an
Eastern.
Good birding to all,
--
Bruce
Bruce H. Anderson
Winter Park, FL
SCIZORTAIL(AT)aol.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: SE North Carolina Kingbird
From: "Guenther, Michael E." <GUENTHME(AT)TUHS.TEMPLE.EDU>
Date: 6 Nov 2002 7:18am
I agree with the Gray Kingbird call.
I don't see anything about this bird to question its not being a Gray
Kingbird.
Michael Guenther
Delaware County, Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: John Saba [SMTP:sabaj(AT)THERIVER.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:33 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] SE North Carolina Kingbird
I lean toward Gray Kingbird, based on the length of the bill, black mask,
the shape of the white on the neck under the eye, and the clear breast. The
tail is hard to see clearly, but appears to be notched in some pics. The
brown coloration may indicate a juvenile bird.
Some photos appear to show white at the tip of the tail, but this may be
light passing through the feather tips.
From the photos, I find it hard to judge the primary extension.
I can't imagine this bird being an Eastern Kingbird.
---
John Saba
sabaj(AT)theriver.com
http://personal.riverusers.com/~sabaj/
(520) 327-3643
Tucson, Arizona USA
Birding is a Grand Adventure!
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: FW: Lenoir Selasphorus hummingbird photos on web
site
From: Brenda Best <jabbest(AT)AMERICU.NET>
Date: 6 Nov 2002 5:15pm
Fellow birders,
Here's a request for identification help from Kevin McGowan
<kjm2(AT)cornell.edu> regarding a Selasphorus hummingbird in New York. Photos
can be found at http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/selashum02.htm. Thanks!
Brenda
--
Brenda Best
Durhamville, NY
jabbest(AT)americu.net
Nature Club of Central New York
http://www.natureclubofcny.com
------ Forwarded Message
> From: "Kevin J. McGowan" <kjm2(AT)cornell.edu>
> Reply-To: kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
> Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:04:51 -0500
> To: NYSBirds-l(AT)cornell.edu (nysbirds-l)
> Subject: [NYSBIRDS-L:9155] Lenoir Selasphorus hummingbird photos on web site
>
> I have posted a select couple of photos of the immature female Selasphorus
> at Lenoir Preserve on my website at
> <http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/selashum02.htm>. (or get there via the Bad
> Photos page <http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/brdphoto.htm>;)
>
> Jay and I saw the bird last Monday, in the rain. Many thanks to Tom Fiore
> for helping us find it initially, and for sticking around with his umbrella
> to help us photograph it. I took video, but I don't think I have anything
> on tape that Jay didn't exceed in quality with digiscoped images. Despite
> the very poor light, we managed to get some decent pictures.
>
> I would welcome people's comments on the identification of the bird. I
> have not yet made up my mind whether it is a Rufous or a Broad-tailed. I'm
> kind of leaning toward Broad-tailed. If all you had to go by were field
> guide images, I would have decided by now. But, what with the degree of
> individual variation that exists with these birds, and that I've seen on
> photos on the Internet, I'm not yet sure.
>
> Does anyone know how to get people from out of state who know (and handle?)
> these species to look at the images?
>
> Kevin
> *****************************************************
> Kevin J. McGowan, Ph.D.
> Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
> 159 Sapsucker Woods Road
> Ithaca, NY 14850
> kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
> http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
------ End of Forwarded Message
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: SE North Carolina Kingbird
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 7 Nov 2002 1:37pm
Looks just like the Gray Kingbirds I see EVERY DAY. An
Eastern Kingbird would sure make my day...
=====
Floyd E. Hayes
Wildlife Biologist
Division of Fish and Wildlife, 6291 Estate Nazareth,
St. Thomas, Virgin Islands 00802, USA
Tel: 340-775-6762; Fax: 340-775-3972
Website: http://www.geocities.com/floyd_hayes
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: "Sooty" Fox Sparrow photos from Arizona
From: Gary Rosenberg <ghrosenberg(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 8 Nov 2002 8:11am
Hi all,
There is a Fox Sparrow at the Boyce Thompson Arboretum outside Phoenix which
a number of observers have identified as a "Sooty" Fox Sparrow. As there are
very few, if any, confirmed records of this form from Arizona, and as some
observers have questioned if this bird is indeed a "Sooty", I have put a
series of pics on the Arizona Bird Committee we site.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ghrosenberg/ArizonaRarities/SootyFoxSparrow.ht
ml
I welcome comments on this individual.
Thanks,
Gary
--
Gary H. Rosenberg
Tucson, AA
ghrosenberg(AT)comcast.net
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ghrosenberg/ArizonaBirdCommittee.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: "Sooty" Fox Sparrow photos from Arizona
From: Mike Patterson <celata(AT)PACIFIER.COM>
Date: 8 Nov 2002 8:39am
Yes, it's a Sooty Fox Sparrow and judging from the size of the
bill, probably _sinuosa_.
http://home.pacifier.com/~neawanna/observatory/sparrow/fosp.html
Gary Rosenberg wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> There is a Fox Sparrow at the Boyce Thompson Arboretum outside Phoenix which
> a number of observers have identified as a "Sooty" Fox Sparrow. As there are
> very few, if any, confirmed records of this form from Arizona, and as some
> observers have questioned if this bird is indeed a "Sooty", I have put a
> series of pics on the Arizona Bird Committee we site.
>
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ghrosenberg/ArizonaRarities/SootyFoxSparrow.ht
> ml
>
> I welcome comments on this individual.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary
> --
> Gary H. Rosenberg
> Tucson, AA
> ghrosenberg(AT)comcast.net
>
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ghrosenberg/ArizonaBirdCommittee.html
--
Mike Patterson
Astoria, OR
celata(AT)pacifier.com
A child who becomes acquainted with the birds about him
hears every sound and puzzles out its meaning with a cleverness
that amazes those with ears who hear not.
-Neltje Blanchan
http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: "Sooty" Fox Sparrow photos from Arizona
From: "Beck, Michael" <Michael.Beck(AT)ACCPAC.COM>
Date: 8 Nov 2002 9:07am
I think Mike has nailed it, even the subspecies, although I'm far from
expert enough to confirm to that degree. This lad is certainly has the look
of the type I'm used to seeing lurking in the bushes here in Vancouver, BC.
Nice photo's.
--michael
_____________________
Michael Beck
Vancouver, BC
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Patterson [mailto:celata(AT)PACIFIER.COM]
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:41 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] "Sooty" Fox Sparrow photos from Arizona
Yes, it's a Sooty Fox Sparrow and judging from the size of the
bill, probably _sinuosa_.
http://home.pacifier.com/~neawanna/observatory/sparrow/fosp.html
Gary Rosenberg wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> There is a Fox Sparrow at the Boyce Thompson Arboretum outside Phoenix
which
> a number of observers have identified as a "Sooty" Fox Sparrow. As there
are
> very few, if any, confirmed records of this form from Arizona, and as some
> observers have questioned if this bird is indeed a "Sooty", I have put a
> series of pics on the Arizona Bird Committee we site.
>
>
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ghrosenberg/ArizonaRarities/SootyFoxSparrow.ht
> ml
>
> I welcome comments on this individual.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary
> --
> Gary H. Rosenberg
> Tucson, AA
> ghrosenberg(AT)comcast.net
>
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ghrosenberg/ArizonaBirdCommittee.html
--
Mike Patterson
Astoria, OR
celata(AT)pacifier.com
A child who becomes acquainted with the birds about him
hears every sound and puzzles out its meaning with a cleverness
that amazes those with ears who hear not.
-Neltje Blanchan
http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: AGP x PGP
From: Tristan Reid <great.snipe(AT)VIRGIN.NET>
Date: 8 Nov 2002 2:08pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi All
Can someone enlighten me to if there are any confirmed records of =
American Golden Plover (Pluvialis dominica) hybridising with Pacific =
Golden Plover (Pluvialis fulva)?
Thanks in advance
Tristan Reid
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: FW: Lenoir Selasphorus hummingbird photos on
web site
From: Nicholas Block <sparrowhawk17(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 9 Nov 2002 12:04pm
Hello all,
This bird looks like a worn immature female Rufous Hummingbird to me.
The marks which make this a Rufous Hummingbird instead of a Broad-tailed,
in my opinion:
Tail (the most important factor) - It is more graduated than it should be
in any Broad-tailed Hummer; a Broad-tailed would have a longer R5 and a
much less noticeable "stair-stepping" look. R2 has more rufous basally
than Broad-tailed; any rufous on R2 in Broad-taileds is almost always
restricted to the outer web, and this bird has extensive rufous on the
inner web. R2 is often longer than R1 on Broad-taileds and noticeably
sticks out past R1 on a perched bird; this is not the case on this bird.
Face - It lacks the "cold" appearance of Broad-tailed and Broad-tailed's
usual eyering; it has buffy markings like a Rufous (especially noticeable
in the supraloral stripe in some photos).
Collar - Rufous typically has a nice white collar which contrasts strongly
with its rufous/buffy flanks. The top photo on the page shows this mark
very well. I have only seen a very few Broad-taileds which show this kind
of contrast, but everything else on those birds pointed toward
Broad-tailed.
Those are the three main things which I think make this a Rufous
Hummingbird. Also, I believe the rectrices are too broad for this to be
an Allen's Hummingbird, but I'm not familiar with just how broad they can
really be on an immature female Allen's.
As for why this is an immature, I think the tail is again key. The very
broad rectrices and lack of any rufous visible on R1 past the uppertail
coverts point toward an immature. Speculatively, the relatively pale
rufous on the flanks may point toward an immature. Also, I figured even a
worn adult female would still have more of a blotch on the throat, and I
think a worn immature would be more likely to have an evenly worn throat
like this bird.
And it's a female because a male would have much more rufous on its
back/rump, tail, and flanks.
Anyway, I hope this was helpful. Good birding!
Nick Block
Wilmington, DE
sparrowhawk17(AT)yahoo.com
> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:14:53 -0500
> From: Brenda Best <jabbest(AT)AMERICU.NET>
> Subject: FW: Lenoir Selasphorus hummingbird photos on web site
>
> Fellow birders,
>
> Here's a request for identification help from Kevin McGowan
> <kjm2(AT)cornell.edu> regarding a Selasphorus hummingbird in New York.
> Photos
> can be found at http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/selashum02.htm. Thanks!
>
> Brenda
> --
> Brenda Best
> Durhamville, NY
> jabbest(AT)americu.net
>
> Nature Club of Central New York
> http://www.natureclubofcny.com
>
> ------ Forwarded Message
> > From: "Kevin J. McGowan" <kjm2(AT)cornell.edu>
> > Reply-To: kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
> > Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:04:51 -0500
> > To: NYSBirds-l(AT)cornell.edu (nysbirds-l)
> > Subject: [NYSBIRDS-L:9155] Lenoir Selasphorus hummingbird photos on
> web site
> >
> > I have posted a select couple of photos of the immature female
> Selasphorus
> > at Lenoir Preserve on my website at
> > <http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/selashum02.htm>. (or get there via
> the Bad
> > Photos page <http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/brdphoto.htm>;)
> >
> > Jay and I saw the bird last Monday, in the rain. Many thanks to Tom
> Fiore
> > for helping us find it initially, and for sticking around with his
> umbrella
> > to help us photograph it. I took video, but I don't think I have
> anything
> > on tape that Jay didn't exceed in quality with digiscoped images.
> Despite
> > the very poor light, we managed to get some decent pictures.
> >
> > I would welcome people's comments on the identification of the bird.
> I
> > have not yet made up my mind whether it is a Rufous or a Broad-tailed.
> I'm
> > kind of leaning toward Broad-tailed. If all you had to go by were
> field
> > guide images, I would have decided by now. But, what with the degree
> of
> > individual variation that exists with these birds, and that I've seen
> on
> > photos on the Internet, I'm not yet sure.
> >
> > Does anyone know how to get people from out of state who know (and
> handle?)
> > these species to look at the images?
> >
> > Kevin
> > *****************************************************
> > Kevin J. McGowan, Ph.D.
> > Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
> > 159 Sapsucker Woods Road
> > Ithaca, NY 14850
> > kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
> > http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
>
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of BIRDWG01 Digest - 5 Nov 2002 to 6 Nov 2002 (#2002-233)
> *************************************************************
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
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