ID-FRONTIERS for November 10-16, 2002

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Update on the mystery golden plover   Martin Reid    Tue, 12 Nov 2002   4:58am   Probably Brown Shrike - ID request   Marcin Faber    Tue, 12 Nov 2002   2:16pm   Chaffinch status in NA   Jeff McCoy    Tue, 12 Nov 2002   9:03pm   Arizona Bird Committee ID Challenge # 1   Gary Rosenberg    Wed, 13 Nov 2002   11:16pm   Hawk Photo Challenge revisited   Gary Rosenberg    Thu, 14 Nov 2002   5:14pm   Mystery Bittern from Beidaihe, China   David A. Cahlander   Thu, 14 Nov 2002   8:03pm   Re: Mystery Bittern from Beidaihe, China   Graham Etherington    Fri, 15 Nov 2002   5:36am   Mystery Bittern   Julian Hough    Fri, 15 Nov 2002   6:15am   Goldeneye movements   Ann Mcdonald    Fri, 15 Nov 2002   12:01pm   Re: Chaffinch status in NA   Martin    Sat, 16 Nov 2002   6:55am   Yann,s website   Martin    Sat, 16 Nov 2002   12:39pm

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Subject: Update on the mystery golden plover
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 12 Nov 2002 4:58am

Dear all,
Responses to my initial email about this plover were rather mixed, but with
most favoring dominica:
http://www.martinreid.com/pluvialis.html
The images were taken by Jim Arterburn in Oklahoma on mid-Sept 2002.  I'd
like to thank Peter Adriaens for reminding me of the molt sequence, which
precludes the tertials being still-growing when the primaries appear to be
fully-grown.
Thus I tend to agree with those who favor dominica for this bird, despite a
number of features that could be interpreted as fulva-like.  In fact, I'd
go as far as to suggest that, had this bird sported tertials just
two-thirds of an inch longer (to cover the next P-tip), most of us would
have leaned towards fulva, and found enough supporting features to back
this up.
My point in expressing this notion is to demonstrate how important the
tertial length is in this tough ID challenge: it is THE most important
feature, assuming no strongly contra-indicative other features.  When
posture allows a normal assessment (and molt/wear is taken into account),
the position of the tertial tip relative to the exposed primary tips AND
relative to the tail tip would seem to be paramount, while the actual
length of the primaries, as expressed by their extension beyond the tail,
is not very important (I have copies of photos of long-winged fulvas, and
short-winged dominicas.)
As always I'd appreciate feedback on this, thanks.
Martin

Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com


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Subject: Probably Brown Shrike -  ID request
From: Marcin Faber <marfaber(AT)POCZTA.ONET.PL>
Date: 12 Nov 2002 2:16pm

Hi all,
I would like to show my photos of mystery shrike observed during my trip to
Uzbekistan in September 2002:

www.czaplon.most.org.pl/l.htm

I will be very grateful for your opinion and help with the identification of
this bird.

Good birding!
Marcin Faber,
Poland.


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Subject: Chaffinch status in NA
From: Jeff McCoy <jeffmccoy(AT)FWI.COM>
Date: 12 Nov 2002 9:03pm

Hi all-

A Common Chaffinch is currently being seen at a feeder in NW Indiana.  It
was first discovered on Sunday 10 November at the residence of Ken Brock.
Though I am aware of the fact that interior records of this species are
generally considered escapes, I am curious as to how often and at what times
of year it has occurred in North America.  If anyone can provide specific
information (in addition to to the records mentioned below), of either
accepted or unaccepted records, I would greatly appreciate it.

Also, for those more experienced with this species, please provide your
opinions as to whether this is a winter adult male or a 1st yr. male (if it
is a 1st yr. does that make it any less likely an escape?).  Digiscoped
photos can be viewed at:

http://www2.fwi.com/~jeffmccoy/coch.htm

An internet search revealed the following records:

Newfoundland
Female 21 May 1994 Middle Cove, NF Birder Jour 5:403
This record provided the basis for acceptance of this species to the ABA
Checklist. In Birding 1996 p. 403, the ABA Checklist Committee states,
"There have been about a dozen prior reports, primarily from mid-November to
mid-May, and a December specimen from Louisiana, that have variably been
treated as natural vagrants or escapes from captivity."

Nova Scotia
Imm. male 27 Nov 2001 Bedford, NS (4th NS rec.!) NAB 56:24
If this is the 4th provincial record, when were the other three?

New Brunswick
1987-- one male, 29 March, Harvey Bank, Albert (Rob Walker, David Christie)
-- photo on file.
"New species for New Brunswick. The real question concerning this European
finch was whether it was of natural or captive origin. The pattern of North
American records builds a good case for natural vagrancy."

Massachusetts
Chatham, 1-3 April 1961.
Windsor, 26-27 March 1988.
Scituate (Plymouth), 3-5 April, 1997. R. Faust. "This individual appeared at
a feeder shortly after a snowstorm, and a photograph eliminated any question
of its identity. Prior to this record, Chaffinch had been included on the
MARC’s supplemental list, which states that captive origin cannot be
excluded. This species is migratory, and there is a pattern to the sightings
in North America which cluster into the end of March and early April,
coinciding with their migration in Europe. The Committee believed this was
compelling evidence to accept this as a true vagrant."

I have no specifics, but there is also an accepted record for Maine.

Yes, the Chesterton Chaffinch is probably just an escaped bird, but I
believe that sightings such as this need to somehow be entered into the
permanent record.  Species of this category, that are automatically
dismissed (and the records lost forever), stand little chance of ever
establishing any future pattern of vagrancy.  Other species, however, like
the closely related Brambling, are usually accepted without question.

Black-bellied Whistling Duck is a good example of this.  For years it was
thought that only Fulvous wandered, and all records of Black-bellied (which
occurred extralimitally much less frequently) were considered escapes and
simply dismissed.  Now it is known that the BBWD population is on the rise,
as are vagrant records, and they are occurring in roughly the same time
period each year.  How many BBWD records that were potentially of wild
origin simply slipped through the cracks, and how much sooner could a good
pattern of vagrancy been established?

--
Jeff McCoy
Columbia City, Indiana USA
jeffmccoy(AT)fwi.com
mobile# (260)615-1911

____________________________________________________
myVine.com -  Unlimited Internet as low as $200/yr
www.myVine.com


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Subject: Arizona Bird Committee ID Challenge # 1
From: Gary Rosenberg <ghrosenberg(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 13 Nov 2002 11:16pm

Hi Everyone,

I have initiated an ID Challenge on the Arizona Bird Committee's web site:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ghrosenberg/ArizonaBirdCommittee.html

If you would like to go directly to the page:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ghrosenberg/ID_Challenge/IDC1.html

ID Challenge # 1 is a hawk that we found in the Sulphur Springs Valley on 12
November, 2002. This hawk would have been dismissed by most birders, but for
some reason, at least one of us thought it looked interesting. So, we
photographed the bird and sent the photos to a raptor expert for his
opinion. We found the answer so interesting that we decided to open it up
for discussion.

Please feel free to start a discussion on the subject, but please forward
any comments to ghrosenberg(AT)comcast.net as well.

I'll post a summary discussion to the ABC site next month.

Enjoy,

Gary
--
Gary H. Rosenberg
Tucson, AZ
ghrosenberg(AT)comcast.net

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ghrosenberg/ArizonaBirdCommittee.html


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Subject: Hawk Photo Challenge revisited
From: Gary Rosenberg <ghrosenberg(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 14 Nov 2002 5:14pm

Hi Everyone,

I am not quite ready to compile all of the many comments I have received
about the Hawk Photo Challenge I put on the Arizona Bird Committee web site.
I will post a discussion to the site in early December when I return home
from a trip. Thanks for all the great responses.

In the meantime, I thought I would post some preliminary results that I have
received. I do this to illustrate just how confusing a perched raptor can
be, and how photos of a perched raptor can be even more difficult (even if
they are good photos!). I will preface the reporting of the list below by
saying that in the discussion included with the posted photos, I do say that
the bird was an immature Red-tailed Hawk, and that we were wondering more
about forms/subspecies/morphs, rather than about what species it was.
Apparently, because this is a photo quiz, many of you did not believe me, or
chose to believe that I was somehow trying to trick you (I'll save that for
a future quiz).

So now, with the knowledge that the bird IS a type of Red-tailed Hawk, look
at the photos again and see what you think.

This is a list of the guesses I received so far (out of about 30).

(not ranked in order of correctness or frequency)

Red-tailed Hawk
"Kreider's" Red-tailed Hawk
Intergrade Kreider's/Eastern Red-tailed Hawk
Harlan's Hawk (light morph juvenile)
Harlan's x Kreider's cross
Rough-legged x Harlan's cross
Red-tailed x Ferruginous Hawk cross
Goshawk
Red-tailed x Goshawk cross
Peregrine Falcon
Aplomado Falcon
Common Black-Hawk (immature)
Broad-winged Hawk
Gray Hawk
Swainson's Hawk
Rufous-tailed Hawk (from South America)

I'll give you a hint. One of the above is likely correct!

Keep em coming!!

Thanks for participating!

Gary

--
Gary H. Rosenberg
Tucson, AZ
ghrosenberg(AT)comcast.net

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ghrosenberg/ArizonaBirdCommittee.html


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Subject: Mystery Bittern from Beidaihe, China
From: "David A. Cahlander" <david(AT)CAHLANDER.COM>
Date: 14 Nov 2002 8:03pm

I've been playing a game of "what bird is this" with a local friend. He has been
 remarkable in getting all of the birds correct. The
bird shown here, we can't agree on the identification. The picture is not very
good, but there should be enough field marks to
identify the bird.

    http://www.cahlander.com/jpeg/china.htm

Thanks.
---
David Cahlander david(AT)cahlander.com Burnsville, MN 952-894-5910


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Subject: Re: Mystery Bittern from Beidaihe, China
From: Graham Etherington <etherington(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 15 Nov 2002 5:36am

Hi all,
Judging by the dark looking crown, overall tawny-buff plumage with dark
streaking above and below (?), deep chestnut dark-centred scapulars, black
primaries and tail, and greenish legs, this is a juvenile Yellow Bittern
(Ixobrychus sinensis, sometimes referred to as Chinese Little Bittern).
Cheers,
Graham Etherington,
Norwich, UK

From: "David A. Cahlander" <david(AT)CAHLANDER.COM>
Reply-To: "David A. Cahlander" <david(AT)CAHLANDER.COM>
To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Mystery Bittern from Beidaihe, China
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:01:49 -0600

I've been playing a game of "what bird is this" with a local friend. He has
been remarkable in getting all of the birds correct. The
bird shown here, we can't agree on the identification. The picture is not
very good, but there should be enough field marks to
identify the bird.

     http://www.cahlander.com/jpeg/china.htm

Thanks.
---
David Cahlander david(AT)cahlander.com Burnsville, MN 952-894-5910

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
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Subject: Mystery Bittern
From: Julian Hough <Jrhough1(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 15 Nov 2002 6:15am

Dear Id-F,

The overall brown/tawny plumage, dark-centred mantle-feathers and finely
streaked breast suggest juvenile Yellow Bittern.

Julian Hough,
CT, USA


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Subject: Goldeneye movements
From: Ann Mcdonald <annmcdonald(AT)USA.NET>
Date: 15 Nov 2002 12:01pm

Hi all,

I was watching a raft of about 40 Barrows Goldeneye diving over a shallow
mussel bed when suddenly they all surfaced and began swimming in one
direction. The only exception was a male who made his way from the front of
the raft to the back. What I would like to know is how do they manage to swim
in such perfect unison? And what was the male doing?

Ann McDonald
West Vancouver, BC


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Subject: Re: Chaffinch status in NA
From: Martin <martin.go(AT)VIRGIN.NET>
Date: 16 Nov 2002 6:55am

Jeff,

  I enjoy checking out our Chaffinches this time of year , so your Indiana
record intrigued me.  Here, then,  are my thoughts for what they are worth.
Our
(mostly) resident birds in Britain are ssp gengleri which breed in Britain.
On passage and overwintering we get  migrant nominate race coelebs from
Scandinavia and probably Russia. We also get some from 'Middle' continental
Europe which used to be called ssp. hortensis (now lumped in nominate
coelebs). So I went out yesterday and
today looking out both ssp.gengleri (coming to year round feeding station)
and
flocks containing nominate coelebs (which are a little wilder, feeding in
Beech and
Sycamore with greater incidence of  Bramblings amoung them.)

  Your bird is clearly not ssp.gengleri which is obviously more pale
cinnamon or
orangy-brown below. Your bird  matches the pinkier underparts of nominate
coelebs.
(It would be interesting to know what stock captive Chaffinches generally
come from...a guess would nominate coelebs...but if they are from British
gengleri, this should be
discernable on plumage).

I think your bird is an adult male. In the pictures, the primary coverts
look as black as the greater coverts and the pale brownish tertial fringes
look broad and fresh.
In the field (it is very subtle) but with practice 1st winter male
Chaffinches have slightly paler (kind of brownish-grey versus jet black)
older primary coverts and alula, which contrast a little with newer, blacker
greater
coverts (as per Svensson). These same birds also have more worn looking,
older
tertials with obviously thinner pale fringe. A good photo of an apparent 1st
winter male Chaffinch in Iceland appears on Yann Kolbeinsson's Icelandic
website.
(taken 3 and 1/2 months later in early March).

  In regard to vagrancy I would be optimistic. Migratory nominate coelebs
have reached Iceland over 300 times (according to BWP) with several records
there this November. The direction of migration out of Scandinavia and the
distance that some nominate coelebs travel  e.g. West Russia to Spain/North
Africa;  (with vagrancy.. most likely nominate coelebs to Canaries and
Mauritania.....latter in late Oct 1988) means on
my globe ..given the numbers reaching Iceland-they are not doing much more
to arrive in Eastern North America than the distance some travel to their
wintering grounds. The migration movement of northern Chaffinches in Europe
is a little complex, with birds following something of a 'dog-leg' first
south then west (roughly speaking). A reverse 'dog-leg' would arguably take
some birds straight to eastern North America. The pattern of records you
indicate for Eastern North America so far seems
entirely consistant with vagrancy, in my view....Get a
globe out and see!

  With regard to age this too seems not so much of a barrier...one Chaffinch
ringed in Belgium in Nov. 1964   was found in Iceland 2 years later  in Dec
1966 (BWP).

It would be interesting to know how the spread of records of Chaffinch in N.
America correlates with distribution of captive birds.

Anyway my encouragment would be to not default to the probably escaped
scenario...these are strong migrants and even Indiana still looks feasable
to me,
(though at
the edge of normal distance covered for migrants). Certainly the other
east coast records would be at least as likely to be vagrants as anything
else in my opinion. A thorough reading of the section on movement in BWP is
needed to convey a more accurate picture than I can manage here!

Cheers Martin Garner

---- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff McCoy" <jeffmccoy(AT)FWI.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:03 AM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Chaffinch status in NA


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Subject: Yann,s website
From: Martin <martin.go(AT)VIRGIN.NET>
Date: 16 Nov 2002 12:39pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Paul Buckley reminded me...Yann Kolbeinsson's website is URL =
http://www.hi.is/~yannk/index-eng.html

for the 1st winter male Chaffinch...click on the writing next to the =
Barrow's Goldeneye....then click under the Rose-breasted Grosbeak...and =
scroll down the list of rare birds for 2001.

Can I also say I think it is a fantastic website well worth looking at =
anyway, esp for eastern N. Americans!

Martin

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