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ID-FRONTIERS for November 17-23, 2002
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| interesting looking skuas | Will Cook | Mon, 18 Nov 2002 | 11:27am |
| Black-capped Gnatcatchers | Will Russell | Mon, 18 Nov 2002 | 6:58pm |
| Re: Black-capped Gnatcatchers | Joseph Morlan | Mon, 18 Nov 2002 | 8:23pm |
| Dowitcher confusion revisited | Matt Kenne | Tue, 19 Nov 2002 | 7:59am |
| Possible Arctic Loon in Colorado (posted for
Chris Wood) | Will Russell | Tue, 19 Nov 2002 | 7:20pm |
| Re: Possible Arctic Loon in Colorado (posted for
Chris Wood) | Michael Dossett | Tue, 19 Nov 2002 | 8:38pm |
| Shorebird on Easter Island. | Alvaro Jaramillo | Tue, 19 Nov 2002 | 9:48pm |
| Re: Arctic Loon in CO | Martin Reid | Wed, 20 Nov 2002 | 5:52am |
| RFH: a mystery Bueto from Texas | Martin Reid | Wed, 20 Nov 2002 | 6:05am |
| R: Possible Arctic Loon in
Colorado (posted for Chris Wood) | Menotti Passarella | Wed, 20 Nov 2002 | 11:18am |
| the Colorado loon | Paul Lehman | Wed, 20 Nov 2002 | 1:41pm |
| Mangrove Swallow (?) in Florida | John Puschock | Wed, 20 Nov 2002 | 3:47pm |
| Re: Possible Arctic Loon in Colorado (posted for
ChrisWood) | Peter Pyle | Wed, 20 Nov 2002 | 5:15pm |
| Mangrove Swallow photos, second try | John Puschock | Wed, 20 Nov 2002 | 8:12pm |
| Arctic Loon and Black-throated Divers | Julian Hough | Wed, 20 Nov 2002 | 9:48pm |
| Re: Mangrove Swallow photos, second try | Kenn Kaufman | Wed, 20 Nov 2002 | 10:48pm |
| Florida Swallow | Steven Mlodinow | Wed, 20 Nov 2002 | 11:18pm |
| Easter Island shorbird and Mangrove Swallow. | Alvaro Jaramillo | Thu, 21 Nov 2002 | 3:22am |
| Florida swallow | John Puschock | Thu, 21 Nov 2002 | 4:49am |
| Re: Poss. Mangrove Swallow in FL | Martin Reid | Thu, 21 Nov 2002 | 5:50am |
| Re: Poss. Mangrove Swallow in FL | Kenn Kaufman | Thu, 21 Nov 2002 | 9:32am |
| Re: Poss. Mangrove Swallow in FL | Matt Sharp | Thu, 21 Nov 2002 | 9:34am |
| Re: Mangrove Swallow (?) in Florida | Floyd Hayes | Thu, 21 Nov 2002 | 9:36am |
| Re: Mangrove Swallow vs White-rumped | Matt Sharp | Thu, 21 Nov 2002 | 11:10am |
| Re: Mangrove Swallow | Kimball Garrett | Thu, 21 Nov 2002 | 12:32pm |
| Re: Mangrove Swallow vs White-rumped | Kevin J. McGowan | Thu, 21 Nov 2002 | 12:26pm |
| Re: Florida Swallow | Mark Stackhouse | Thu, 21 Nov 2002 | 1:03pm |
| Re: Mangrove Swallow vs White-rumped | Matt Sharp | Thu, 21 Nov 2002 | 3:05pm |
| Vagrancy in martins and swallows | Floyd Hayes | Thu, 21 Nov 2002 | 5:24pm |
| Re: BIRDWG01 Digest - 20 Nov 2002 to 21 Nov 2002
(#2002-245) | Dick Wood | Fri, 22 Nov 2002 | 7:31am |
| Re: Dowitcher confusion revisited (fwd) | Ian Paulsen | Fri, 22 Nov 2002 | 11:12am |
| RFC: a pale gull in Texas | Martin Reid | Sat, 23 Nov 2002 | 5:52am |
| more photos of possible SBGU in Texas, plus
hybrid Buteo | Martin Reid | Sat, 23 Nov 2002 | 7:39pm |
| Re: photos of possible SBGU in Texas | Robert Lewis | Sat, 23 Nov 2002 | 10:09pm |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
|
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: interesting looking skuas
From: Will Cook <cwcook(AT)DUKE.EDU>
Date: 18 Nov 2002 11:27am
Brian Patteson would like some comments on skua images he's posted... see
message below (forwarded with permission).
------- Forwarded message follows -------
After hearing about the DNA evidence supporting the occurence of two Brown
and or Falkland Skuas from Britain, I had a look at some of my skua photos,
and decided to post some images of interesting looking skuas to our website.
Thanks to the help of my webmaster, Les Willis, these images are now
available for you to view and comment on at
http://www.patteson.com/skuas/skuas.htm
I would be particularly interested in receiving comments from birders
with experience in the Southern Ocean, Tristan, and the Falklands. We
would also be interested in seeing images of skuas from the Western
North Atlantic that don't seem to match the expected Great or South
Polar Skuas.
Brian Patteson
patteson1(AT)mindspring.com
Hatteras, NC
------- End of forwarded message -------
--
Charles W. "Will" Cook w 919-660-7423
http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook cwcook(AT)duke.edu
Biology Dept., Duke Univ., Box 90340, Durham, NC 27708
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Black-capped Gnatcatchers
From: Will Russell <willrussell(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 18 Nov 2002 6:58pm
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I have long been uncertain about basic plumaged Black-capped Gnatcatchers, and
their treatment in current field guides is contradictory, at least in part. Do
they have distinct or indistinct eyerings; do the males have a line of black
over the eye; are the females brown on the "back"? I had attempted to study
Black-caps in Mexico but each time found the experience frustrating as birds
either vanished quickly or, if responding to Ferruginous Pygmy-Owl imitations,
were hyperactive and extremely difficult to see well. In October at Lake
Patagonia State Park near Nogales, Arizona, Rich Hoyer discovered two
Black-capped Gnatcatchers. After two unsuccessful attempts, I connected with
the gnatcatchers this past Thursday. I returned to Lake Patagonia yesterday,
refound the birds and spent an hour and one-half watching them, mostly at very
close range. As this is a relatively little known species, I've summarized my
observations below.
I believe these are a pair as they stay together continuously, visually and/or
vocally, and Black-cappeds, like Black-taileds, apparently remain paired
throughout the year. It's unclear how first year birds behave so my assumption
that these are adults may not be correct.
The vocalizations and bill and tail characteristics were as described in current
literature but the birds' appearance, especially the female, were not. First,
the eyerings of both birds appeared large and well-defined, almost goggle-like
in some lights. They were never "indistinct" although in strong sunlight, the
contrast between the eyering and the pale gray head washed out to some degree.
The female had a uniformly pale gray head and hind neck, like the male's,
contrasting clearly with buff-brown back, rump (?) and scapulars. Depending on
light intensity and angle, these back/scapular colors could appear muted or
pronounced. The lower flanks were also buff.
In spite of repeated attempts, often at very close range, I could not certainly
detect any black over the eye of the male. Several times, I though I perceived
a dusky line but I was never sure it wasn't a shadow at the juncture of the
feather tracts forming the crown and supercilium. Whether or not there is black
here is a question that could be answered easily at a museum but in this case at
least, the dark line, if present, wouldn't constitute a field mark.
Will Russell
willrussell(AT)comcast.net
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Subject: Re: Black-capped Gnatcatchers
From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan(AT)CCSF.ORG>
Date: 18 Nov 2002 8:23pm
On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:58:15 -0700, Will Russell
<willrussell(AT)COMCAST.NET> wrote:
>Whether or not there is black here is a question that could be answered easily
at a museum but in this case at >least, the dark line, if present, wouldn't
constitute a field mark.
For reference, I have posted two images of these birds at:
http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/gallery.htm
They were taken last week by David Nelson.
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044: mailto:jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
Fall Birding Classes start Sept 4: http://fog.ccsf.org/~jmorlan/
California Bird Records Committee: http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Dowitcher confusion revisited
From: Matt Kenne <mkenne(AT)NETAMUMAIL.COM>
Date: 19 Nov 2002 7:59am
I've been attempting to reconcile the many conflicting statements about
Short-billed Dowitcher prebasic molt from field guides, references, and
recent personal correspondence. So far, I'm as confused as I was before-
perhaps even more so. At first I thought there might be a problem in relying
heavily on telescopic observations and conclusions drawn from birds flying
past at 40 mph. It's now evident that there are also problems with relying
on some in-hand observations as well. I contacted Cheri Gratto-Trevor about
the Saskatchewan study quoted in the BNA SBDO account that found
flight-feather molt on migration and got this response:
"Hi, don't worry, you can't insult me by asking if I can tell short and
long-billed dowitchers apart! I've banded most of the species of shorebirds
in Canada, and those are the ONLY ones I am NOT comfortable telling apart.
We used a combination of bill length and tail feathers(from Prater et al.
1977), but I was never convinced it worked well. I just got a chance today
to glance at the 1991 data again, and it certainly seems as if some of the
SBDO (by bill length and tail description) were undergoing moult, BUT....
there are lots of really long-billed birds that seemed to have SBDO tails
and lots of really short-billed birds that seemed to have lbdo tails. So
who knows. I did collect DNA samples (and for some, tail feathers) from
some of the birds - and we know we can tell them apart genetically..... but
we don't have the money to run the samples (it's not a big conservation
question), so I haven't been able to convince Sue Haig to run them. So I
don't have a definite answer, although I managed to convince myself at the
time that it SEEMED as if SBDO were moulting that one year (of 2 yrs). I
only banded the things in SK in 1990 and 1992 fall, and we have no plans to
band more in the near future - so the only way I can go further on this is
to have the DNA samples run!"
I got a copy of the 1972 McNeil and Cadieux study quoted in BNA that found
"heavy body molt when they pass through Magdalen Is., Quebec, in mid-Jul and
Aug". Over 100 SBDO were collected for the study, and "Relative molt
intensity was determined using an arbitrary molt index varying from 0 to 10,
according to the number of molting body areas." These birds, referred to
subspecies griseus, began the period at a molt level of 5 or 6, but no
mention is specifically made concerning flight feathers. This molt intensity
decreased and was suspended just before their departure. These departing
birds had acquired enough fat load to take them non-stop overseas to the
Lesser Antilles and northern South America.
The following recent letter from Brian Harrington is in agreement with the
BNA assessment of subspecies griseus prebasic body molt. He also agrees
with Michael O'Brien's earlier Frontiers post description of molt in
possible wintering birds, but is in marked contrast with O'Brien about the
state of SBDO molt on arrival and in peak migration:
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 2:43 PM
> Subject: dowitcher molt, south migration
>
>
> Hello -- I will see if I can throw some fuel on the discussion you are
> having. My experience is largely with SBDO, including visual and banding
> during the south migration in southern New England. We do not see many
> hendersoni here. When I have seen them (< 10 a year at 'my' beach) they
> have generally been in the first half of the SBDO migration period, i.e.
> before August. In the field they show little indication of prebasic molt
> (sometimes slight), clearly different in this regard from L. g. griseus.
I
> have not (knowingly) caught any, so cannot attest to state of flight
feather
> molt, but I would be amazed if it was present.
> Griseus, on the other hand, typically arrives in our area (Massachusetts)
> with active body plumage molt, which seems to remain active until shortly
> before departure. At that time a few individuals seem to have had the
body
> feather molt become arrested as there is little evidence of newly growing
> basic feathers; they may be anywhere between 1/2 -3/4 through the prebasic
> body feather molt at this time. At peak migration, and for a time after
the
> peak, there is no evidence I have seen of any flight feather molt in any
of
> the SBDO here.
> We do have SBDO that linger well after the peak departure time of most
SBDO.
> Some of these (typically in basic body plumage) have shown molt on the
> inner primaries. I recall catching 1-2 of them (I have not checked my
> records here), and seeing others with proximal primary feather molt.
> Now skip to Georgia coast in mid-September. Of the hundreds of calls I
have
> heard here (coastal habitat only) there has only been one of a LBDO. With
> Brad Winn (GA DNR) we have caught some SBDO here during mid-Sept, and
> virtiually all have had full basic body plumage and advanced stages of
> primary feather molt, i.e. the primary feather molt is virtually
completed.
> I have no idea whether they are griseus and/or hendersoni. Few of them
> winter here, so far as I know. Are they SBDO that end up in South
America,
> and/or ones that end up in the Gulf of Mexico region of FL/TX ? I expect
the
> latter, but have no evidence.
> Hope this helps.
>
> Brian Harrington
> Manomet Center for Conservation Sciences
> PO Box 1770
> Manomet, MA USA 02345
>
> tel. 508/224-6521
> fax 508/224-9220
> email bharr(AT)manomet.org
> web site www.manomet.org
Given the possible confusion in the Saskatchewan study, there aren't any
indications other than Joe Jehl's statements in the BNA of primary molt in
migrant SBDO (of any subspecies) outside of wintering areas. Any information
I receive from Dr. Jehl will be passed on accordingly. As far as prebasic
body molt goes, my attempts to question researchers in the central US about
hendersoni SBDO haven't yet been successful, but there does appear to be
some body molt in migrating griseus before they reach the New England and
mid-Atlantic coast.
Matthew Kenne
Algona, Iowa
mkenne(AT)netamumail.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Possible Arctic Loon in Colorado (posted for
Chris Wood)
From: Will Russell <willrussell(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 19 Nov 2002 7:20pm
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Chris Wood (address below) asked me to post the following:
Hi folks:
Several of you may have heard about the loon south of Denver, Colorado. The
general consensus in Colorado is that this bird is an Arctic Loon, which would
be perhaps the first interior record for the Lower 48. As odd as this may
sound, juvenile Yellow-billed Loons are just about annual along the Front Range
of Colorado (with an average of roughly 1.5 birds per year), so the possibility
of Arctic Loon was something that several of us believed likely. Pacific Loons
are uncommon fall migrants in Colorado.
Of course, I don't think I am going too far out on a limb to say that no one in
Colorado really knows much about Arctic Loons, so given the rarity of this
species, I would enjoy hearing from people on the other side of the pond who
actually know what these beasts look like.
Features that several of us observed when watching the bird included:
1. An extensive white flank panel that was visible at all times the bird was
above water. When relaxed this was very extensive, extending all the way to the
breast; when the bird was actively diving, this was limited to the rear of the
flanks.
2. Lack of a vent strap (repeatedly looked for and never seen; I have several
series of video that show this).
3. Relatively large bill that was held pointing upwards nearly the entire time
the bird was relaxed.
4. Relatively long-necked - while this may be quite subjective, this was
something that truly stood out when the bird was relaxed. I also think it shows
in several of my video captures.
5. The forehead usually appeared comparatively steep and peaked, although at
times when the bird was actively did not appear much different from a Pacific
Loon.
6. The nape of this bird, while paler, was darker than a typical basic Pacific
Loon.
Given the retained alternate plumage of this bird (particularly on the mantle
and scapulars), I would be interested in hearing about molt timing in Europe or
Asia (with the usual caveat regarding vagrants and molt timing). For instance,
what percentage of adult birds in migration or on the wintering grounds has
completely attained basic plumage (by what date)? Of those that have not,
which feathers are not replaced and how long until those replaced (dates)?
Some observers have expressed concern that there is a chin strap on this bird,
but most of us believe this is the border to the alternate plumage throat patch,
which is most visible on the left side of the bird. Rachel Hopper's photos
show this quite well, indeed they show both an upper and lower border to the
alternate throat patch, as well as retained vertical streaking on the side of
the neck. Is it typical for molting adult Arctic Loons to show such a pattern?
Any other thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated.
The URLs for the two pages of images are included below:
http://www.cfo-link.org/arctic_loon.html
http://www.cfo-link.org/Images/loon_photos/ARLO_CO.jpg
Thanks,
CLW
Christopher L. Wood
zeledonia(AT)cfo-link.org
Niwot, Colorado
Will Russell
willrussell(AT)comcast.net
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Subject: Re: Possible Arctic Loon in Colorado (posted for
Chris Wood)
From: Michael Dossett <phainopepla(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 19 Nov 2002 8:38pm
Hello,
For what its worth, I've seen a couple of Arctic Loons
here in Washington and one of the things that really
stood out on them was that the head was quite blocky.
Much more blocky than these photos. The chinstrap
bothers me a little bit too although I don't know
about how this may change as the bird continues to
molt. I would be interested in hearing what others
think regarding that.
I guess my opinion is that the photos aren't
conclusive, but I'd be willing to hear what others
have to say.
Michael Dossett
Bothell, WA
phainopepla(AT)yahoo.com
--- Will Russell <willrussell(AT)COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> Chris Wood (address below) asked me to post the
> following:
>
>
> Hi folks:
>
> Several of you may have heard about the loon south
> of Denver, Colorado. The general consensus in
> Colorado is that this bird is an Arctic Loon, which
> would be perhaps the first interior record for the
> Lower 48. As odd as this may sound, juvenile
> Yellow-billed Loons are just about annual along the
> Front Range of Colorado (with an average of roughly
> 1.5 birds per year), so the possibility of Arctic
> Loon was something that several of us believed
> likely. Pacific Loons are uncommon fall migrants in
> Colorado.
>
> Of course, I don't think I am going too far out on a
> limb to say that no one in Colorado really knows
> much about Arctic Loons, so given the rarity of this
> species, I would enjoy hearing from people on the
> other side of the pond who actually know what these
> beasts look like.
>
> Features that several of us observed when watching
> the bird included:
>
> 1. An extensive white flank panel that was visible
> at all times the bird was above water. When relaxed
> this was very extensive, extending all the way to
> the breast; when the bird was actively diving, this
> was limited to the rear of the flanks.
>
> 2. Lack of a vent strap (repeatedly looked for and
> never seen; I have several series of video that show
> this).
>
> 3. Relatively large bill that was held pointing
> upwards nearly the entire time the bird was relaxed.
>
> 4. Relatively long-necked - while this may be quite
> subjective, this was something that truly stood out
> when the bird was relaxed. I also think it shows in
> several of my video captures.
>
> 5. The forehead usually appeared comparatively steep
> and peaked, although at times when the bird was
> actively did not appear much different from a
> Pacific Loon.
>
> 6. The nape of this bird, while paler, was darker
> than a typical basic Pacific Loon.
>
> Given the retained alternate plumage of this bird
> (particularly on the mantle and scapulars), I would
> be interested in hearing about molt timing in Europe
> or Asia (with the usual caveat regarding vagrants
> and molt timing). For instance, what percentage of
> adult birds in migration or on the wintering grounds
> has completely attained basic plumage (by what
> date)? Of those that have not, which feathers are
> not replaced and how long until those replaced
> (dates)?
>
> Some observers have expressed concern that there is
> a chin strap on this bird, but most of us believe
> this is the border to the alternate plumage throat
> patch, which is most visible on the left side of the
> bird. Rachel Hopper's photos show this quite well,
> indeed they show both an upper and lower border to
> the alternate throat patch, as well as retained
> vertical streaking on the side of the neck. Is it
> typical for molting adult Arctic Loons to show such
> a pattern?
>
> Any other thoughts or comments would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> The URLs for the two pages of images are included
> below:
>
> http://www.cfo-link.org/arctic_loon.html
>
>
http://www.cfo-link.org/Images/loon_photos/ARLO_CO.jpg
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> CLW
>
> Christopher L. Wood
> zeledonia(AT)cfo-link.org
> Niwot, Colorado
>
>
>
> Will Russell
> willrussell(AT)comcast.net
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Shorebird on Easter Island.
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 19 Nov 2002 9:48pm
Birders:
In November of last year a group of intrepid botanists and naturalist
visited Easter Island in the South Pacific. This island is seldom birded as
there are no native land birds left, but those huge standing heads (Moai)
are a big draw to general tourists. While they were there Reagan Szabo, and
Marc Johnson saw a mystery shorebird. They were able to get a photo (two
scans are accessible below) and they made some field notes during the
observation. Pretty much all Australasian wintering shorebirds would be new
for Easter Island, which is part of Chile. This is probably a new species
for the country list of Chile, and I do have my ideas of what it is, but I
would love some more input from yall.
http://home.attbi.com/~chucao/RapaNui-shorebird1.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~chucao/RapaNui-shorebird3.jpg
thanks a bunch, description is below. Alvaro.
>Reagan Szabo and I spotted a shorebird hanging out at
>a temporary pool of water. We are unsure on its
>identity for now but will hopefully be able to
>identify it when we get to better resources. For the
>meantime here are our notes (we also have a distant
>photo):
>
>
>First impressions on size and colour while in flight
>were Pectoral Sandpiper, but it not a Pec. The bird
>seemed slightly larger and more slight. In size I
>think of it being between Pectoral Sand. and Lesser
>Yellow Legs.
>
>
>-looked to be in very fresh plumage
>-rufous cap; broad crown streaks; nape and side of
>neck with finer streaking. Streaking protruded into
>breast slightly
>- bill straight, length ca. equal to width of head
>- wing coverts with dark centres and broad creamy
>fringes
>- tertials flight feathers edged rufous
>- wings as long as tail, but we do not think longer
>- buff to greyish indistinct broad band across neck
>and upper chest, contrasting with upper throat and
>chin which looks very white
>- streaking on side of head but malar strip clean and
>contrasts with rest of head; possible faint and
>incomplete supercilium
>- inconspicuous eyering
>- remaining undersides white
>- legs appeared dark in not black
>
>
>IN FLIGHT:
>- faint wing line(bar)
>- outer retrices white, centre dark; we did not note
>the rump or upper tail cover colour
>
>
>BEHAVIOUR:
>-no conspicuous bobbing or tail flicking. Crouched
>when a dog approached. Fed only once while we watched
>it, but Reagan has details on that brief observation.
>Reagan Szabo and I spotted a shorebird hanging out at
>a temporary pool of water. We are unsure on its
>identity for now but will hopefully be able to
>identify it when we get to better resources. For the
>meantime here are our notes (we also have a distant
>photo):
>
>
>First impressions on size and colour while in flight
>were Pectoral Sandpiper, but it not a Pec. The bird
>seemed slightly larger and more slight. In size I
>think of it being between Pectoral Sand. and Lesser
>Yellow Legs.
Alvaro Jaramillo
Biologist
San Francisco Bay Bird Observatory
P.O. Box 247
Alviso, CA 95002
(408)-946-6548
http://www.sfbbo.org/
chucao(AT)attbi.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Arctic Loon in CO
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 20 Nov 2002 5:52am
Dear all,
I've seen a number of Arctic Loons of the Atlantic form when living in the
UK, but have not seen one for 12 years now. I've seen a few Pacifics in
Texas and a few in British Columbia about 14 years ago.
The CO loon looks to be fine for an Arctic, to me. The concern over the
apparent chinstrap is understandable, but is clearly explained by the molt
stage and pattern on the throat sides. One aspect I'd like to mention is
the effect of shadow. I've noted that at many angles, loons can appear to
have a chinstrap only for better/different looks to reveal that this was an
artifact of light. while not applicable in this case, it is something to
keep in mind. This also applies to the vent strap: this feature is usually
seen when the bird rolls sideways to preen, and sometimes the leg lies
exactly where the strap would be, but also, the leg is often held up such
that its shadow falls across the vent. I was nearly fooled by this a
couple of years ago.
The CO Arctic Loon is a fabulous find and a benchmark bird: For example
the TBRC had a policy of regarding older records of Pacific Loons (no
longer a Review species) that do not rule out Arctic Loons, as being
acceptable as Pacific so long as there is no evidence of Arctic Loon being
documented in a "nearby" state.....
Cheers,
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: RFH: a mystery Bueto from Texas
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 20 Nov 2002 6:05am
Dear all,
I'd really appreciate some feedback about this unusual raptor, as I remain
confused by its unexpected combination of features:
http://www.martinreid.com/Raptors3.html
thanks,
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: R: Possible Arctic Loon in
Colorado (posted for Chris Wood)
From: Menotti Passarella <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT>
Date: 20 Nov 2002 11:18am
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Hi all.
I'm familiar with Arctic Loon in the Mediterranean and the CO Loon =
seems different from the bird I regularly watch in NE Italy.
I'm posting some photos; I hope they will be useful. All phosto taken =
last winter in the Po Delta, NE Italy.
Cheers
Menotti Passarella
Italy
Arctic Loon: juvenile (top) and Adult winter (bottom):
http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/arctica01.JPG
Arctic Loon: juvenile (5 photos):
http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/arctica11.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/arctica13.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/arctica05.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/arctica06.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/arctica07.JPG
Red-throated Loon:
http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/stellata01.JPG
Common Loon:
http://www.geocities.com/aster_men/immer03.JPG
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Subject: the Colorado loon
From: Paul Lehman <lehmfinn(AT)VERIZON.NET>
Date: 20 Nov 2002 1:41pm
IDFrontiers:
Having now seen a bunch of photos of the Colorado Arctic Loon and
talking with a couple of the observers, I would say that the proportions
of this bird fit very well with the few Arctic Loons I see annually in
August in Nome--albeit in full alternate plumage. It also matches the
proportions of the one basic bird I saw in California (Morro Bay) many
years ago. That is, the larger, blockier, flatter head; longer bill with
slight uptilted appearance; thicker neck; and perhaps slightly larger
overall size compared to the typical Pacific Loon. A number of folks
have commented that this gives the bird a slightly intermendiate look
between Pacific and Common. These characters all are typical of the
Siberian (and western Alaskan) subspecies viridigularis, which is
certainly the most likely candidate to occur in Colorado in any case.
So, I guess the question is, can nominate Arctics from Europe ever look
like this, or are they more Pacific-looking in some or all these
regards??
As for whether the occurrence of Yellow-billed Loons on a regular basis
in Colorado makes Arctic somewhat "expected" at some point, I'd say
probably not, given that Yellow-billeds breed much farther east in the
arctic, due north of Colorado in fact, so that few or none of the birds
in Colorado may be Alaska breeders. Sort of the same deal with Mew
Gulls.
--Paul Lehman
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Subject: Mangrove Swallow (?) in Florida
From: John Puschock <g_g_allin(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 20 Nov 2002 3:47pm
A (probable?) Mangrove Swallow (Tachycineta albilinea) was found at the
Viera Wetlands in Viera, Florida on 18 Nov 2002 by Murray Gardler. It has
been seen every day since then by multiple observers.
For detailed descriptions of this bird, check the archives of BirdBrains,
FloridaBirds-L, and FlaBirding (Florida/Bahamas). All are available at
http://birdingonthe.net/birdmail.html. I'll just say here that it has
metallic dark green upperparts, a white rump, and a thin white line
extending from the forehead to just above the eyes. It appears smaller than
the Tree Swallows (T. bicolor) that are also present. It has a more direct
flight style than the Tree Swallows, and it doesn't appear to pull its wings
backward on the downstroke.
It appears to have all the field marks of Mangrove Swallow shown in Howell
and Webb (1995), but given that this may represent a first record for North
America, there has been some hesitation to put a name to this bird (though I
believe many birders who have seen it are convinced it is a Mangrove
Swallow). I have posted 14 photos of it on the FlaBirding photo page
(http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/FlaBirding/lst) for your comments.
The photos are low-quality, but they show most of the field marks. (For the
most part, the colors are not highly accurate.)
John Puschock
g_g_allin(AT)hotmail.com
Reference:
Howell, S. N. G., and S. Webb. 1995. A Guide to the Birds of Mexico and
Northern Central America. Oxford University Press Inc. New York.
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Subject: Re: Possible Arctic Loon in Colorado (posted for
ChrisWood)
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle(AT)prbo.org>
Date: 20 Nov 2002 5:15pm
I agree with the prevailing opinion that this was an Arctic Loon. I
wanted to comment briefly on the molt, plumage, and age (I have recently
reviewed the literature and specimens on this).
Pacifc/Arctic Loons (as well as Common and Yellow-billed but not
Red-throated) are unusual in that, in adults > 3 yrs old, the complete
molt occurs in the spring, at the same time the body plumage goes from
"basic" (=winter) to "alternate" (=summer) plumage. According to
traditional terminology for these species (e.g., see Palmer), the
definitive prebasic molt begins with the body plumage (and rectrices) in
fall and completes with simultaneous replacement of flight feathers and
wing coverts (including the rects again) in spring. The prebasic molt of
flight feathers and wing coverts thus overlaps the prealternate molt of
body plumage in the spring. (We are unsure that this is the best way to
interpret the terminology but we'll go with this for now.) Some to many
definitive alternate back feathers of these species can be retained
during the fall molt, not to be replaced until mid-winter or even until
the succeeding prealternate molt. Also, some basic feathers can come in
looking like alternate feathers, depending on the exact timing of their
replacement. The Colorado loon is thus in fairly complete basic body
plumage with the wing coverts appearing as alternate feathers (because
they were replaced the previous spring) and a few scapulars either
retained alternate or resembling alternate feathers. The age of the bird
is ATY (at least 2.5 yrs-old) based on the pattern to the retained wing
coverts and upperpart feathers as well as the bright reddish iris.
Peter Pyle
The Colorado loon has completed most if not all of the
Will Russell wrote:
> Chris Wood (address below) asked me to post the following: Hi
> folks: Several of you may have heard about the loon south of Denver,
> Colorado. The general consensus in Colorado is that this bird is an
> Arctic Loon, which would be perhaps the first interior record for the
> Lower 48. As odd as this may sound, juvenile Yellow-billed Loons
> are just about annual along the Front Range of Colorado (with an
> average of roughly 1.5 birds per year), so the possibility of Arctic
> Loon was something that several of us believed likely. Pacific Loons
> are uncommon fall migrants in Colorado. Of course, I don’t think I am
> going too far out on a limb to say that no one in Colorado really
> knows much about Arctic Loons, so given the rarity of this species, I
> would enjoy hearing from people on the other side of the pond who
> actually know what these beasts look like. Features that several of us
> observed when watching the bird included: 1. An extensive white flank
> panel that was visible at all times the bird was above water. When
> relaxed this was very extensive, extending all the way to the breast;
> when the bird was actively diving, this was limited to the rear of the
> flanks. 2. Lack of a vent strap (repeatedly looked for and never seen;
> I have several series of video that show this). 3. Relatively large
> bill that was held pointing upwards nearly the entire time the bird
> was relaxed. 4. Relatively long-necked – while this may be quite
> subjective, this was something that truly stood out when the bird was
> relaxed. I also think it shows in several of my video captures. 5.
> The forehead usually appeared comparatively steep and peaked, although
> at times when the bird was actively did not appear much different from
> a Pacific Loon. 6. The nape of this bird, while paler, was darker
> than a typical basic Pacific Loon. Given the retained alternate
> plumage of this bird (particularly on the mantle and scapulars), I
> would be interested in hearing about molt timing in Europe or Asia
> (with the usual caveat regarding vagrants and molt timing). For
> instance, what percentage of adult birds in migration or on the
> wintering grounds has completely attained basic plumage (by what
> date)? Of those that have not, which feathers are not replaced and
> how long until those replaced (dates)? Some observers have expressed
> concern that there is a chin strap on this bird, but most of us
> believe this is the border to the alternate plumage throat patch,
> which is most visible on the left side of the bird. Rachel Hopper’s
> photos show this quite well, indeed they show both an upper and lower
> border to the alternate throat patch, as well as retained vertical
> streaking on the side of the neck. Is it typical for molting adult
> Arctic Loons to show such a pattern? Any other thoughts or comments
> would be greatly appreciated. The URLs for the two pages of images are
> included
> below: http://www.cfo-link.org/arctic_loon.html
http://www.cfo-link.org/Images/loon_photos/ARLO_CO.jpg Thanks, CLW Christopher
> L. Woodzeledonia(AT)cfo-link.orgNiwot, Colorado Will Russell
> willrussell(AT)comcast.net
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Subject: Mangrove Swallow photos, second try
From: John Puschock <g_g_allin(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 20 Nov 2002 8:12pm
Apparently, there's been some problems with the FlaBirding photo page. If
you can't view the Florida Mangrove Swallow photos at
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/FlaBirding/lst, try the following URLs:
http://members.aol.com/jpuschock/masw2.html
http://members.aol.com/jpuschock/masw3.html
http://members.aol.com/jpuschock/masw4.html
http://members.aol.com/jpuschock/masw5.html
http://members.aol.com/jpuschock/masw1.html
...and if _that_ doesn't work, try replacing "members" in the URL with
"hometown".
John Puschock
g_g_allin(AT)hotmail.com
_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Arctic Loon and Black-throated Divers
From: Julian Hough <Jrhough1(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 20 Nov 2002 9:48pm
I just viewed the images of the loon in CO and agree with a few earlier
postings that the bird appears to be an Arctic Loon, probably of the Siberian
race viridigularis.
I have seen many Arctic Loons (Black-throated Diver) in the UK and basically,
my recollection is that the structure, bill shape and flank patch is similar
to the Colorado bird.
I was fortunate enough to see Arctic and Pacific Loon together at Nome last
fall, and while in Alternate plumage, the structural differences were
apparent. The darker nape and thicker neck stripes of alternate Arctics were
noticeable, though it is hard to tell (on my monitor) if these features can
be of use on the Co bird since it seems pretty much moulted out of breeding
plumage.
One feature that did strike me is that the Nome and CO birds held their bills
at 45 degrees. It is generally perceived that European Arctic Loons
typically hold their bills straight out (similar to Common), so is this
behaviour specific to siberian birds and not European birds??
Julian Hough
CT, USA
Naturescape Images website:
http://members.aol.com/jrhough1/index.html
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Subject: Re: Mangrove Swallow photos, second try
From: Kenn Kaufman <kennk(AT)IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: 20 Nov 2002 10:48pm
These are good photos, lots of detail to look at, even on the crummy
little monitor on my notebook computer. Looking at some of these, I'm
struck by the white forehead on the bird -- it looks far more obvious
than what I'm accustomed to seeing on the species in Mexico. Where I am
right now I don't have access to most of my reference books, but I'm
wondering how the observers have ruled out the South American species
Tachycineta leucorrhoa, White-rumped Swallow, which according to my
memory would be a good match for these pictures.
Of course Mangrove Swallow is way overdue to occur in the U.S., since it
gets so close to the border in Sonora and Tamaulipas; but it doesn't seem
to be much of a migrant, so Florida seems like an odd place for it to
turn up. On the other hand, I believe White-rumped Swallow is quite
migratory within South America, so it might be expected to show up
anywhere on the Atlantic seaboard (in the tradition of the Brown-chested
Martin, another South American swallow recorded in Massachusetts and New
Jersey). I'm not saying that the Florida bird is a White-rumped Swallow,
but I do think that species has to be ruled out before it can be claimed
as a Mangrove Swallow.
Kenn Kaufman
Tucson, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Puschock" <g_g_allin(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:12 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Mangrove Swallow photos, second try
> Apparently, there's been some problems with the FlaBirding photo page.
If
> you can't view the Florida Mangrove Swallow photos at
> http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/FlaBirding/lst, try the following
URLs:
>
> http://members.aol.com/jpuschock/masw2.html
> http://members.aol.com/jpuschock/masw3.html
> http://members.aol.com/jpuschock/masw4.html
> http://members.aol.com/jpuschock/masw5.html
> http://members.aol.com/jpuschock/masw1.html
>
> ...and if _that_ doesn't work, try replacing "members" in the URL with
> "hometown".
>
> John Puschock
> g_g_allin(AT)hotmail.com
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
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Subject: Florida Swallow
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 20 Nov 2002 11:18pm
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Greetings All
I am outside my area of expertise, but I do have Turner and Rose's guide to
swallows and martins.
The white supraloral stripe is a good fit for White-rumped Swallow and no
other swallow (that otherwise matches the FL bird). I do think that the this
supraloral stripe would be atypical for Mangrove Swallow.
Size-wise, White-rumped Swallows average the same length as Trees, but are a
bit shorter winged.
Cheers
Steven Mlodinow
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Subject: Easter Island shorbird and Mangrove Swallow.
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 21 Nov 2002 3:22am
Birders:
So far the replies to the Easter Island shorebird are leaning towards
Sharp-tailed, but nearly neck and neck with Ruff. These are indeed the two
species which I have been going back and forth on. The description and
original photos do appear to show a rufous cap which suggests Sharp-tailed.
The pale underparts look a bit more Ruff like to me, and the structure is
somewhat intermediate from the single picture. The originals do show a
noticeable primary projection (past tertials). This may be the key feature,
but I need to look at more photos and get more opinions on this. My
recollection is that Ruffs don't show much of a primary extension, but that
Sharp-tails do. Does this jive with people's photos, or experience? I am
leaning towards Sharp-tailed Sandpiper, which is more reasonable on range
than Ruff in general. I think the only other shorebird that has been
recorded on Easter Island is Bristle-thighed Curlew, but maybe Ruddy
Turnstone has made it, so whatever it is its a great record. I would
appreciate more comments on the Sharp-tail versus Ruff angle. I will be
away in Trinidad for a bit, so I may not respond on this for a few days.
On the swallow problem, I think someone needs to go check out a good
collection that has both Mangrove and White-rumped Swallows. The key
feature to look at is the extent of the rump patch. I recall that
White-rumps have a rump band, parallel edged and very much like the bird in
the photo. If my memory does not fail me, Mangrove Swallow has a more
extensive rump patch that gets down into the uppertail coverts. Keep in
mind that this is off the top of my head and could be entirely wrong, so it
needs to be checked. Also White-rumps are greener than Chilean Swallows
above, but overall my guess is that they will appear much more blue than
Mangrove Swallow appears in the field. Mangrove Swallow has a strong green
tone to the iridescence, that is reminiscent of Violet-green Swallow. Both
Mangrove and White-rumps have white fringes on the tertials, but I think
these are wider, and more extensive (on innermost secondaries too??) on
Mangrove Swallow. Overall there is nothing that makes me reject
White-rumped Swallow as an option for the Florida bird, it does look a bit
better for that species than Mangrove Swallow but that is a very "loose"
opinion. The only thing that is bad for White-rumped is that it appears to
be growing in the outer primary, White-rumps should not be finishing up a
moult in November as this is when they are nesting in Argentina. Moult is
likely in the March - July time frame in that species. If it is indeed
moulting, this is better for Mangrove although it could be a long-staying
White-rump that has shifted to a northern hemisphere moult schedule. I am
not sure that this helps any, other than to encourage the observers to
carefully assess the White-rumped Swallow as a possibility as Kenn Kaufmann
suggests.
regards
Alvaro
Alvaro Jaramillo
Biologist
San Francisco Bay Bird Observatory
P.O. Box 247
Alviso, CA 95002
(408)-946-6548
http://www.sfbbo.org/
chucao(AT)attbi.com
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Subject: Florida swallow
From: John Puschock <g_g_allin(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 21 Nov 2002 4:49am
For what it's worth, there are currently several (perhaps >10) Cave Swallows
being seen along with the "Mangrove" Swallow in Viera, FL. To the best of
my knowledge, these represent a first county record.
I'm not one to put a subspecific name on the Caves, but they do have lighter
rumps than the typical "West Indian" Cave Swallows that nest in South
Florida. However, it's beyond my area of expertise to say if they look like
Cave Swallows from the Yucatan. They are being referred to as "Mexican"
Cave Swallows on the local listservs.
Also, both the Cave and "Mangrove" swallows were found just after a large
cold front -- the same one that produced numerous tornados in several
southeastern and mid-Atlantic states -- passed through Florida. Prior to
the passage of the front, winds were from the southwest.
Not that this proves anything, but I think it may support that these birds
arrived from the Yucatan.
John Puschock
g_g_allin(AT)hotmail.com
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Subject: Re: Poss. Mangrove Swallow in FL
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 21 Nov 2002 5:50am
Dear all,
First let me state that I've seen a handful of White-rumped Swallows (WRSW)
in Argentina, and no Mangrove Swallows (MASW), thus most of the following
is conjecture:
here are some links on the web; all the MASWs are from Belize or Costa
Rica; the WRSW is from Argentina:
http://www.dgweb.com/~fenner/graphix/SwallowMangrove1.JPG
http://develop.psy.uva.nl/users/band/cr4_12a.jpg
http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/lam_mangrov_web2.JPG
http://www.greenbackedheron.com/photos/220/387.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/fotosaves/Passeriformes/Hirundinidae/FotosHirundinidae.html
I also have one slide I took of a WRSW in Argentina.
As these pics show, the white on the forehead is not a problem for MASW.
On reading the text of the "swallows" book, and looking at my very small
sample, a couple of things come to mind:
The underwing coverts: "Swallows" states that for MASW they are "white,
sometimes with fine shaft streaks"; and for juveniles "... the white
underparts are washed with grey-brown, and the outer underwing coverts are
banded with dull grey." Unfortunately "Swallows" does not refer
explicitly to the underwing coverts of WRSW, but describes those of the
closely-related Chilean Swallow as " light grey-brown." Birds of South
America stresses that WRSW and CHSW are almost indistinguishable in the
field, and might be subspecies of the same species, rather than separate
taxa. The bottom line is: is there a visible difference in the underwing
coverts of MASW and WRSW, and if so, how does the FL swallow match up?
The blackish loral area looks to be quite thin on the FL bird, from all
angles. The few images of MASW I've found show a similar thin black lore,
while the WRSW image above plus my slide show a much thicker black lore -
is this significant? Further, all the pics of MASW show a rather similar
and uneven boundary of the white and dark along the side of the face, while
WRSW seems to have a straighter border; it's hard to extrapolate this onto
the flying pics of the FL bird - I look forward to seeing some of the pics
of it perched.
Finally, the uppertail coverts: the first MASW image above clearly shows
that the white rump is extensive, but that the distal UTCs are
dark. "Swallows" indicates that these feathers on MASW are browner than
the rest of the upperparts - and one of John's photos seems to show this
for the FL bird. Of course, WRSW may also have these utcs with a brownish
wash - but "Swallows" says they are dusky blue-green (and blackish for CHSW).
I think WRSW is at least as likely as MASW in Florida, but I also feel that
the pics thus far do not show anything wrong for MASW - and may have enough
details to confirm the ID (either way) - once we understand the true ID
points for the contenders.
A fabulous bird, whatever it is. Congratulations to Murray - whom I used
to bump into in his DFW days.
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Poss. Mangrove Swallow in FL
From: Kenn Kaufman <kennk(AT)IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: 21 Nov 2002 9:32am
Martin Reid wrote:
> First let me state that I've seen a handful of White-rumped Swallows
(WRSW)
> in Argentina, and no Mangrove Swallows (MASW), thus most of the
following
> is conjecture:
> here are some links on the web; all the MASWs are from Belize or Costa
> Rica; the WRSW is from Argentina:
> http://www.dgweb.com/~fenner/graphix/SwallowMangrove1.JPG
> http://develop.psy.uva.nl/users/band/cr4_12a.jpg
> http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/lam_mangrov_web2.JPG
> http://www.greenbackedheron.com/photos/220/387.jpg
>
>
http://www.geocities.com/fotosaves/Passeriformes/Hirundinidae/FotosHirund
inidae.html
> I also have one slide I took of a WRSW in Argentina.
>
> As these pics show, the white on the forehead is not a problem for
MASW.
>
>
If you look at the four links that Martin provides for Mangrove Swallow,
most of them DON'T show white on the forehead. The second link does
appear to, but it's a shot with odd lighting that makes it appear that
much of the crown is white also. The others show specifically that there
is a narrow white supraloral line but that the area immediately above the
bill is dark.
I don't claim to be an expert on these birds, but, having seen a few
thousand Mangrove Swallows (and a few hundred White-rumped Swallows) over
the last couple of decades, the facial expression on the bird in John
Puschock's photos immediately struck me as odd -- the white on the
forehead does appear much more striking than it usually seems to me on
the Mangroves in Mexico.
Again, I don't have access to reference books right now, but the
underwing coverts are certainly worth checking, as Martin suggests. We
can actually sort of see these in some of John's photos, but I can't tell
whether they're gray or white -- photos can be misleading, and photos
viewed over the Internet can be infinitely more so! As Al Jaramillo
pointed out, the bird does appear to be replacing the outermost primary
(on at least one wing), so molt schedule is worth considering also.
The main point of my initial post was not to argue for a specific
identification but to ask how the Floridians had ruled out White-rumped
Swallow. We all know that, in dealing with vagrant birds, the
geographically-closest candidate is not necessarily the most likely
candidate. Some people in Florida are already discussing this individual
as if it were a definite Mangrove, so I was curious to know how the other
reasonable possibilities had been ruled out.
Kenn Kaufman
Tucson, AZ
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Poss. Mangrove Swallow in FL
From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
Date: 21 Nov 2002 9:34am
Greetings
I have posted some images of Mangrove and
White-rumped Swallow at the URL below.
http://www.acnatsci.org/~wechsler/lightbox/ID-FRONT/SWALLOWS.html
Matt Sharp
Collection Manager
VIREO/ANS
1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
Philadelphia PA 19103
www.acnatsci.org/vireo
(tel.) 215-299-1069
(fax) 215-299-1182
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Mangrove Swallow (?) in Florida
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 21 Nov 2002 9:36am
The White-rumped Swallow is HIGHLY migratory in
Paraguay, where flocks of several hundred or even
thousands appear during the austral winter but only a
few remain to breed. I often scanned flocks there for
Chilean Swallow (but rarely with success). As I
recall, White-rumped Swallow has WHITISH underwing
linings (as in the photos from Florida, and apparently
in Mangrove Swallow as well) in contrast with the
DARKER underwing linings of Chilean Swallow. How
certain are we that Mangrove Swallow and White-winged
Swallow are different species?
-Floyd
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Mangrove Swallow vs White-rumped
From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
Date: 21 Nov 2002 11:10am
Hello again
I took a quick look at the few specimens we have of these 2
swallows here at the Academy and thought I'd share some
of my initial impressions. We have 9 MASW specimens and
3 WRSW. All are adult birds except 1 MASW and all the below
comments pertain to the adults.. These are all old specimens
from the early 1900s (1910-1920) so I cannot look at underwings
without damaging the specimens. From what I am able to see they
both look whitish.
MASW has more green-blue iridescence vs blue-green on
WRSW. This is subtle and may be of limited use on a solitary
bird in the field.
WRSW is cleaner white below. MASW has very fine dark
shaft streaks on the feathers of the underparts
MASW is comparable in overall length to Violet-green Swallow
but with shorter wings. WRSW is slightly smaller than Tree Swallow
with longer wings. The primary projection past the tail in WRSW
is slightly longer compared to MASW. Also the wing morphology
of WRSW appears to be as expected for a highly migratory
species with a slightly larger gap between the outer Ps and the
central Ps though again this is subtle and perhaps as useful as
wing morphology is in separating Dusky vs Hammonds Fly in the
field.
MASW has more white on rump than WRSW. On MASW the white
seems to extend further up the back. On WRSW it appears
restricted to the rump.
MASW has broader white edges to the tertials and inner secs.
On MASW there is more white on each feather and more feathers
have white edges. This varies on even on the few specimens we have.
WHITE ON THE FOREHEAD.
On the few specimens here WRSW have white foreheads and
MASW do not.
I think an important point here though is that on MASW the dark
foreheads are created by dark iridescent tips on the forehead
feathers. The bases of these feathers are white, such that if a
MASW was missing even a few dozen feathers on the forehead it
would appear to have a white forehead.
I am not sure the photos of the Florida bird positively rule out
WRSW. From my very cursory look at the 2 species as represented
in VIREO and the skin collection it appears that the differences
between the 2 species are relative and subject to some variation.
Structurally though they appear separable. I think structure relative
to some other species needs to be examined closely. Obviously these
comments are not intended to be the final word and I have no field
experience with either species.
Either way this is an exciting bird.
Matt
Matt Sharp
Collection Manager
VIREO/ANS
1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
Philadelphia PA 19103
www.acnatsci.org/vireo
(tel.) 215-299-1069
(fax) 215-299-1182
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Mangrove Swallow
From: Kimball Garrett <kgarrett(AT)NHM.ORG>
Date: 21 Nov 2002 12:32pm
ID-ers:
Just a quick note on Mangrove (albilinea) vs. White-rumped (leucorrhoa)
swallows from a specimen standpoint. Quick because we have only small
series of both (~6 adult nominate albilinea, ~10 adult leucorrhoa) and
because I'm out the door heading up to the Central Valley Birding
Symposium in Stockton.
Like Kenn, my first impression on looking at the photos was that the white
supraloral streak was more evident than on the hundreds of
Mangroves I've looked at closely. But an examination of skins suggests
that there is no real difference between the two species in this
character. Underwing covert color also looks similar.
In a nutshell, differences between the two species based on specimens were:
SIZE: leucorrhoa larger, more like Tree (albilinea smaller, approaching
Violet-green)
DORSAL COLOR: steel-blue gloss of leucorrhoa matches that of Tree Swallow
(but keep in mind variation due to light and individual differences);
dorsum of albilinea has strong green component (though not like felt-green
of Violet-green).
RUMP: most of our leucorrhoa had some diffuse dusky smudging in the white
of the rump; none of our albilinea showed this smudging, but nearly all had
very fine dark shaft streaks within the white (this would be difficult to
discern in the field).
SIDES OF BREAST: nearly all of our leucorrhoa showed an extension of
glossy dark dorsal color coming down to the sides of the breast like a
partial breastband; this was apparent on only one albilinea (though skin
preparation technique can impact this greatly).
I'll leave it to others to assess these characters on the live bird and on
the photos.
A note on calls. Turner and Rose suggest that leucorrhoa sounds like Tree,
which I would interpret as a rather rich, liquid "tr-rip". My notes on
albilinea from Sinaloa say: a single or sometimes double-noted "tseep" with
an odd quality a little like the sounds electrical wires sometimes
make." But I also say (from another trip to Sonora) "a rich 'chirrup'",
which wouldn't be much different from Tree.
Kimball
*****************************************************
Kimball L. Garrett
Ornithology Collections Manager
Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
900 Exposition Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90007 USA
213-763-3368
213-746-2999 FAX
kgarrett(AT)nhm.org
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Mangrove Swallow vs White-rumped
From: "Kevin J. McGowan" <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 21 Nov 2002 12:26pm
At 01:08 PM 11/21/2002 -0500, Matt Sharp wrote:
>I took a quick look at the few specimens we have of these 2
>swallows here at the Academy and thought I'd share some
>of my initial impressions.
Thanks for posting. What about the upper tail coverts? Any differences
there? The "Swallows" book suggests that Mangrove might have the white
rump extending more into the upper tail coverts than White-rumped; and any
dark coverts should be blue in White-rumped and non-iridescent in
Mangrove. The Florida photos show some extensive dark in the coverts, but
I can't tell what color they are.
Kevin
*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan, Ph.D.
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Florida Swallow
From: Mark Stackhouse <westwings(AT)SISNA.COM>
Date: 21 Nov 2002 1:03pm
I really don't have enough experience (especially recently) with White-rumped
Swallow to be able
to judge how well this bird fits with that species, other than what I can see
from my references
(including Turner & Rose), but I do have lots of experience with Mangrove
Swallow. The white of
the forehead of the Florida bird does not seem out of the range of the white I
see on some
Mangrove Swallows in Mexico, especially on the gulf coast (I remember noting the
white foreheads
on a number of individuals last month in southern Veracruz and Campeche -
perhaps this may be
moult-related?). I think the field guides, including Howell & Webb and the guide
to swallows,
understate the amount of white on the foreheads of some Mangroves.
There are a few other features visible in the photos which also suggest Mangrove
Swallow:
1 - The tertials on the Florida bird seem to have quite a bit of white-edging.
2 - The uppertail coverts appear brownish and "smudgy," rather than a clean,
dark color (similar
to the back color) as in White-rumped.
3 - The white on the rump appears to be more extensive and lower than on the
illustrations I
have of White-rumped.
I don't know if this is at all helpful, and I can't say for sure that that it's
not a
White-rumped Swallow, but I really don't see anything in the photos which looks
out of the range
of the Mangrove Swallows I see in Mexico, especially on the east coast.
Good birding!
Mark Stackhouse
Westwings, Inc.
1432 Downington Ave.
Salt Lake City, UT 84105
tel./fax. (801) 487-9453
westwings(AT)sisna.com
Steven Mlodinow wrote:
>
> Greetings All
>
> I am outside my area of expertise, but I do have Turner and Rose's guide to
swallows and
> martins.
>
> The white supraloral stripe is a good fit for White-rumped Swallow and no
other swallow (that
> otherwise matches the FL bird). I do think that the this supraloral stripe
would be atypical
> for Mangrove Swallow.
>
> Size-wise, White-rumped Swallows average the same length as Trees, but are a
bit shorter
> winged.
>
> Cheers
> Steven Mlodinow
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Mangrove Swallow vs White-rumped
From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
Date: 21 Nov 2002 3:05pm
Kevin, et al
>Thanks for posting. What about the upper tail coverts? Any
>differences there? The "Swallows" book suggests that Mangrove
>might have the white rump extending more into the upper tail coverts
>than White-rumped; and any dark coverts should be blue in
>White-rumped and non-iridescent in Mangrove. The Florida photos
>show some extensive dark in the coverts, but I can't tell what color they
>are.
I could not find any real difference in the UT covs between
the small numbers of specimens. Both spp showed dark coverts
iridescent like the upperparts, which on the specimens fell to
the sides of the tail such that the white rump was contiguous
with the central recs.
For what it is worth 2 WRSW specimens collected in Sept, had
a full set of fresh-looking primaries. The 3rd had no collection date.
Of the MASW 2 July specimens were in wing molt. 1 was missing
the 4th primary the other the 7th. The new primaries showed
slight iridescence. 2 June specimens were also in wing molt with
1 missing both inner Ps and the other missing P3. The outer Ps
on these birds were very worn. The other 4 adults (1 Apr and 3
Mar) had full set of brown primaries (no iridescence)
Best
Matt
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Vagrancy in martins and swallows
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 21 Nov 2002 5:24pm
Those in the eastern USA should keep an eye out for an
additional species similar to the Florida swallow:
House Martin.
In recent years there have been three records of House
Martin in Barbados (eight photographed on 31 Oct 1999
with two remaining on 6 Nov 1999; one on 11 Nov 2000;
one on 9-11 Jun 2002), plus an excellent description
of one on Tobago (7 Apr 2002; presumably the same
individual appearing in Barbados a few months later).
Distinguishing House Martin from Chilean Swallow is
potentially tricky.
Although unlikely to occur in North America,
White-winged Swallow populations have exploded in
Trinidad and a few birds apparently colonized Tobago
in 2000. They often fly out to sea while foraging.
Astonishingly there was a recent record from
Guadeloupe (published in Journal of Field Ornithology,
but I'd rather not look up the reference)--a rather
long-distance record of vagrancy in a supposedly
non-migratory swallow and similar in magnitude to a
Mangrove Swallow reaching Florida.
We've received unsubstantiated reports of both
Mangrove Swallow and White-rumped Swallow in Trinidad,
presumably attributable to juvenile White-winged
Swallows which tend to lack white secondaries. Also,
I've seen molting White-winged Swallows with an
indistinct whitish forehead/superciliary patch, which
could confuse the unwary.
-Floyd
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: BIRDWG01 Digest - 20 Nov 2002 to 21 Nov 2002
(#2002-245)
From: Dick Wood <rwood238(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 22 Nov 2002 7:31am
A comment from Matt Sharp's VIREO pictures because I have not seen either of
these birds.
The wings extend well beyond the tail on the Mangrove where the White Rump's
wings extend approximately the same length as the forked tail.
Dick Wood
Tucson, AZ
4902 W Placita de los Vientos
Tucson, AZ 85745
rwood238(AT)comcast.net
We are guided by our culture and the advice from our elders to share and
always to follow the road that makes your heart feel good. ---- Nisga'a -
British Columbia tribe, Canada
Searching: ANDERSON, BIGSBY (BIXBY), BROPHY, CAVANAUGH, COLE,
CONKLIN,
CRAMER, CUMMINGS, EVANS, GASTON, HIER (HYER), KEENAN, LITTLE, NILES, POTTER,
SAUNDERS, SKINNER, VAN HORN, VINCENT, WOOD
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:32:39 -0500
From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
Subject: Re: Poss. Mangrove Swallow in FL
Greetings
I have posted some images of Mangrove and
White-rumped Swallow at the URL below.
http://www.acnatsci.org/~wechsler/lightbox/ID-FRONT/SWALLOWS.html
Matt Sharp
Collection Manager
VIREO/ANS
1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
Philadelphia PA 19103
www.acnatsci.org/vireo
(tel.) 215-299-1069
(fax) 215-299-1182
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Dowitcher confusion revisited (fwd)
From: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 22 Nov 2002 11:12am
HI:
From Dennis Paulson.
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:38:45 -0800
From: Dennis Paulson <dpaulson(AT)ups.edu>
To: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)krl.org>
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Dowitcher confusion revisited (fwd)
Ian, could you forward this to BIRDWGO1 for me? Thanks.
In response to further comments on Short-billed Dowitcher molt, I
think the picture that is emerging might be understandable. There
may not be *any* good evidence for SBDO primary molt in southbound
migration, if Cheri Gratto-Trevor's confusion about identification of
those Saskatchewan birds is taken into account. (Parenthetically,
such confusion is entirely understandable. I've been examining
dowitcher specimens recently that are still puzzling to identify in
the hand). Furthermore, SBDO is a fairly common winter visitor on
the Atlantic coast from the Carolinas south, so primary molt on the
coast of Georgia could easily have been in wintering birds.
Short-bills are in heavy body molt as they move through the Pacific
Northwest in fall, as are many, many shorebird species, and body molt
in southbound migration doesn't surprise me at all; in fact, I would
assume all SBDOs do this. That's of much less interest than when and
where they molt their flight feathers, which is both energetically
demanding and aerodynamically challenging - not something to do while
you're in migration! LBDOs perhaps do so because their migration is
shorter than that of the other species, and they are better adapted
to fresh water so find their energetic needs met in wetlands of the
interior. Greater Yellowlegs and Least Sandpipers are the only other
long-distance migrants that stop in Washington state long enough in
fall to complete flight-feather molt, and I have no idea what
proportion of their populations do this in our area or where else
they can be found in molt like this. It's sufficiently easy to
detect flight-feather molt in flying shorebirds that I'm surprised we
don't know more about this.
Most of the freshwater-breeding shorebirds in the western interior
molt flight feathers before migration (Killdeer, snipe, stilt and
avocet in some areas) or at freshwater (actually saline) staging
areas along the route (Wilson's Phalarope, other stilts and avocets),
so these areas must be very favorable for shorebirds. Willets are
probably exceptions to this, molting after migration. Perhaps their
foraging methods are better accommodated on coastal mudflats.
Dennis Paulson
>HI:
>FYI
>
>Ian Paulsen
>Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
>ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
>A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
>"Rallidae all the way"
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:59:45 -0600
>From: Matt Kenne <mkenne(AT)NETAMUMAIL.COM>
>To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
>Subject: [BIRDWG01] Dowitcher confusion revisited
>
>I've been attempting to reconcile the many conflicting statements about
>Short-billed Dowitcher prebasic molt from field guides, references, and
>recent personal correspondence. So far, I'm as confused as I was before-
>perhaps even more so. At first I thought there might be a problem in relying
>heavily on telescopic observations and conclusions drawn from birds flying
>past at 40 mph. It's now evident that there are also problems with relying
>on some in-hand observations as well. I contacted Cheri Gratto-Trevor about
>the Saskatchewan study quoted in the BNA SBDO account that found
>flight-feather molt on migration and got this response:
>
>"Hi, don't worry, you can't insult me by asking if I can tell short and
>long-billed dowitchers apart! I've banded most of the species of shorebirds
>in Canada, and those are the ONLY ones I am NOT comfortable telling apart.
>We used a combination of bill length and tail feathers(from Prater et al.
>1977), but I was never convinced it worked well. I just got a chance today
>to glance at the 1991 data again, and it certainly seems as if some of the
>SBDO (by bill length and tail description) were undergoing moult, BUT....
>there are lots of really long-billed birds that seemed to have SBDO tails
>and lots of really short-billed birds that seemed to have lbdo tails. So
>who knows. I did collect DNA samples (and for some, tail feathers) from
>some of the birds - and we know we can tell them apart genetically..... but
>we don't have the money to run the samples (it's not a big conservation
>question), so I haven't been able to convince Sue Haig to run them. So I
>don't have a definite answer, although I managed to convince myself at the
>time that it SEEMED as if SBDO were moulting that one year (of 2 yrs). I
>only banded the things in SK in 1990 and 1992 fall, and we have no plans to
>band more in the near future - so the only way I can go further on this is
>to have the DNA samples run!"
>
>I got a copy of the 1972 McNeil and Cadieux study quoted in BNA that found
>"heavy body molt when they pass through Magdalen Is., Quebec, in mid-Jul and
>Aug". Over 100 SBDO were collected for the study, and "Relative molt
>intensity was determined using an arbitrary molt index varying from 0 to 10,
>according to the number of molting body areas." These birds, referred to
>subspecies griseus, began the period at a molt level of 5 or 6, but no
>mention is specifically made concerning flight feathers. This molt intensity
>decreased and was suspended just before their departure. These departing
>birds had acquired enough fat load to take them non-stop overseas to the
>Lesser Antilles and northern South America.
>
>The following recent letter from Brian Harrington is in agreement with the
>BNA assessment of subspecies griseus prebasic body molt. He also agrees
>with Michael O'Brien's earlier Frontiers post description of molt in
>possible wintering birds, but is in marked contrast with O'Brien about the
>state of SBDO molt on arrival and in peak migration:
>
>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 2:43 PM
>> Subject: dowitcher molt, south migration
>>
>>
>> Hello -- I will see if I can throw some fuel on the discussion you are
>> having. My experience is largely with SBDO, including visual and banding
>> during the south migration in southern New England. We do not see many
>> hendersoni here. When I have seen them (< 10 a year at 'my' beach) they
>> have generally been in the first half of the SBDO migration period, i.e.
>> before August. In the field they show little indication of prebasic molt
>> (sometimes slight), clearly different in this regard from L. g. griseus.
>I
>> have not (knowingly) caught any, so cannot attest to state of flight
>feather
>> molt, but I would be amazed if it was present.
>> Griseus, on the other hand, typically arrives in our area (Massachusetts)
>> with active body plumage molt, which seems to remain active until shortly
>> before departure. At that time a few individuals seem to have had the
>body
>> feather molt become arrested as there is little evidence of newly growing
>> basic feathers; they may be anywhere between 1/2 -3/4 through the prebasic
>> body feather molt at this time. At peak migration, and for a time after
>the
>> peak, there is no evidence I have seen of any flight feather molt in any
>of
>> the SBDO here.
>> We do have SBDO that linger well after the peak departure time of most
>SBDO.
>> Some of these (typically in basic body plumage) have shown molt on the
>> inner primaries. I recall catching 1-2 of them (I have not checked my
>> records here), and seeing others with proximal primary feather molt.
>> Now skip to Georgia coast in mid-September. Of the hundreds of calls I
>have
>> heard here (coastal habitat only) there has only been one of a LBDO. With
>> Brad Winn (GA DNR) we have caught some SBDO here during mid-Sept, and
>> virtiually all have had full basic body plumage and advanced stages of
>> primary feather molt, i.e. the primary feather molt is virtually
>completed.
>> I have no idea whether they are griseus and/or hendersoni. Few of them
>> winter here, so far as I know. Are they SBDO that end up in South
>America,
>> and/or ones that end up in the Gulf of Mexico region of FL/TX ? I expect
>the
>> latter, but have no evidence.
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Brian Harrington
>> Manomet Center for Conservation Sciences
>> PO Box 1770
>> Manomet, MA USA 02345
>>
>> tel. 508/224-6521
>> fax 508/224-9220
>> email bharr(AT)manomet.org
>> web site www.manomet.org
>
>Given the possible confusion in the Saskatchewan study, there aren't any
>indications other than Joe Jehl's statements in the BNA of primary molt in
>migrant SBDO (of any subspecies) outside of wintering areas. Any information
>I receive from Dr. Jehl will be passed on accordingly. As far as prebasic
>body molt goes, my attempts to question researchers in the central US about
>hendersoni SBDO haven't yet been successful, but there does appear to be
>some body molt in migrating griseus before they reach the New England and
>mid-Atlantic coast.
>
>Matthew Kenne
>Algona, Iowa
>mkenne(AT)netamumail.com
--
Dennis Paulson, Director phone 253-879-3798
Slater Museum of Natural History fax 253-879-3352
University of Puget Sound e-mail dpaulson(AT)ups.edu
1500 N. Warner, #1088
Tacoma, WA 98416-1088
http://www.ups.edu/biology/museum/museum.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: RFC: a pale gull in Texas
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 23 Nov 2002 5:52am
Dear all,
it's gull season, so here's one I'd appreciate some feedback on:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp24.html
- I'm used to seeing washed-out first-winter birds later in the season, but
this is mid-November....
It has many of the characteristics associated with Slaty-backed
Gull. SBGUs vary greatly in color and size, so this might fit a lighter
female?
Thanks,
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: more photos of possible SBGU in Texas, plus
hybrid Buteo
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 23 Nov 2002 7:39pm
Dear all,
I got more flight shots today:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp24.html
and I've got some perched images of the mystery Buteo, which seems to be a
hybrid:
http://www.martinreid.com/Raptors3.html
- I'd appreciate some comments on both these birds, thanks,
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: photos of possible SBGU in Texas
From: Robert Lewis <lewis(AT)BWAY.NET>
Date: 23 Nov 2002 10:09pm
On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 09:39 PM, Martin Reid wrote:
> Dear all,
> I got more flight shots today:
> http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp24.html
> and I've got some perched images of the mystery Buteo, which seems to
> be a
> hybrid:
> http://www.martinreid.com/Raptors3.html
>
> - I'd appreciate some comments on both these birds, thanks,
> Martin
I don't think Slaty-backed shows tertials with such scalloped edges
as the Texas bird. Also, it seems that the color of the tertials is
too pale a shaded of brown. I would also expect the greater coverts to
be less contrasty looking.
Some Slaty-backed images taken in Japan by Allen Chartier are on my
gull web site, http://www.bway.net/~lewis/birds/Japan/slychart.html
Bob Lewis
Sleepy Hollow NY
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