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ID-FRONTIERS for January 1-4, 2003
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| QRY: Greater Roadrunner vagrancy | James Barton | Wed, 1 Jan 2003 | 11:07am |
| Trumpeter Swan status | Paul Lehman | Thu, 2 Jan 2003 | 1:19pm |
| Re: Trumpeter Swan status | Chris Elphick | Thu, 2 Jan 2003 | 2:04pm |
| Fw: Collingwood CBC | Diane and Kayo Roy | Thu, 2 Jan 2003 | 2:17pm |
| Re: Trumpeter Swan | Alan Wormington | Thu, 2 Jan 2003 | 2:32pm |
| Re: Trumpeter Swans | Kevin J. McGowan | Thu, 2 Jan 2003 | 3:03pm |
| Greater Roadrunner in MA, November 18, 2002 | Jim Barton | Thu, 2 Jan 2003 | 4:19pm |
| Re: Greater Roadrunner vagrancy | Mike Patterson | Thu, 2 Jan 2003 | 4:54pm |
| Trumpeter Swan populations | Steven Mlodinow | Thu, 2 Jan 2003 | 9:02pm |
| Re: QRY: Greater Roadrunner vagrancy | D. Heindel | Thu, 2 Jan 2003 | 8:06pm |
| ID Greater Roadrunner vs. pheasant sp. | Jim Barton | Thu, 2 Jan 2003 | 6:23pm |
| Re: Trumpeter Swan Translocation | Mark Stevenson | Thu, 2 Jan 2003 | 6:25pm |
| Re: Trumpeter Swan | Phil Davis | Fri, 3 Jan 2003 | 12:07am |
| HERGs and Canada Geese pics | Martin Reid | Fri, 3 Jan 2003 | 7:37am |
| Re: ID Greater Roadrunner vs. pheasant sp. | Stephen J. Davies | Fri, 3 Jan 2003 | 7:48am |
| a dull legged. streaked headed Yellow-legged Gull
in NF | Bruce Mactavish | Fri, 3 Jan 2003 | 4:36pm |
| Re: a dull legged. streaked headed Yellow-legged
Gull in NF | Dick Newell | Fri, 3 Jan 2003 | 5:08pm |
| Puzzling branta-type goose from New York | Angus Wilson | Fri, 3 Jan 2003 | 6:00pm |
| possible lesserscaup | =?iso-8859-1?q?kjell | Fri, 3 Jan 2003 | 6:52pm |
| Re: possible lesserscaup | Jeff Gilligan | Fri, 3 Jan 2003 | 11:01pm |
| possible lesserscaup | =?iso-8859-1?q?kjell | Sat, 4 Jan 2003 | 3:38am |
| Re: possible lesserscaup | Joseph Morlan | Sat, 4 Jan 2003 | 4:57am |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
|
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: QRY: Greater Roadrunner vagrancy
From: James Barton <BrdBk(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 1 Jan 2003 11:07am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hello. Does anyone know of >>plausible<< records of Greater Roadrunner
east of the Mississippi? By "plausible" I mean reports at least accompanied
by detailed, credible descriptions, whether or not submitted to or accepted
by any records committee.
If there are any such plausible records, how might they best be
explained? I would suggest that the bird might have gotten into a truck or >
a railroad car, which then was closed without anyone noticing that the bird
was present. But how long could the bird have survived? There wouldn't
have been any snakes to eat. What could a truck or railroad car have
contained that would serve the bird as food and enable it to survive for
several days? Could the bird have survived on loose fruit on grain?
I'm aware of a Wryneck that was found dead on an army base in the U.S.,
apparently having crossed the Atlantic from Europe in a shipping container.
Of course, that container was probably many days at sea, so the bird could
not have been expected to survive.
How long could a predator such as a Roadrunner be expected to survive >
without eating.
I have been experiencing difficulty in posting both to Birdchat and
Birdwg01 from my regular email address at attbi.com, so I am sending this
from an alternate AOL address.
Happy New Year to everyone.
Yours
Jim Barton
Cambridge, MA
redwing1986(AT)attbi.com
brdbk(AT)aol.com
US Coordinator - Proact in the Americas
campaigning for birds and their habitats, before it's too late
www.proactnow.org
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Trumpeter Swan status
From: Paul Lehman <lehmfinn(AT)VERIZON.NET>
Date: 2 Jan 2003 1:19pm
IDFrontiers:
This is a related, distribution and "countability," question in regards
to recent postings on the identification of one or more possible
Trumpeter Swans in the East (e.g., in Alabama). If in fact such birds
are Trumpeters--and there is currently a group of four birds in Florida,
as well as the debated bird in AL--plus recent Trumpeters in places like
Tennessee and Texas, are they even "countable"? If one wishes to stay
away from the purely listing aspect of this question, it is still an
interesting distributional question. I assume that all of the recent
Trumpeter Swans seen in the more southern sections of the eastern half
of North America in winter--in places like Florida, Alabama, Tennessee,
Texas, etc.--are introduced birds from the thriving populations being
established all the way from upstate New York and Ontario west across
the upper Great Lakes to Minnesota. Wintering birds from these areas are
now turning up in good numbers in places like Iowa, eastern Nebraska,
etc. I haven't heard anyone say that they think the more southern winter
birds are vagrants from the long-established populations in the West--at
least I hope that they aren't!
I assume that many recently-raised birds are not banded (neck collared)?
Also, is it not true that some states/provinces in this
(re-)introduction area have accepted these birds now as established,
whereas others have not, thus making determining the "countability" of
the southern birds even more muddied.
--Paul Lehman
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Trumpeter Swan status
From: Chris Elphick <elphick(AT)UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
Date: 2 Jan 2003 2:04pm
Without wanting to drag the discussion off topic, I'd just mention that
this issue is not restricted to the east. For example, see a paper from
the 2001 4th International Swan Symposium, that turned up in my mail this
week:
Drewien et al. 2002. Use of winter translocations to expand distributionof
trumpeter swasn in the western United States. Waterbirds 25 (Spec. Publ.
1) 138-142.
To quote briefly from the abstract: "During 1990-1996, Trumpeter Swans ...
were translocated form high-risk wintering sites in the Greater Yellowstone
Region .... to potential new wintering areas in Idaho, Wyoming, Oregon, and
Utah in an attempt to braoden the winter distribution and reduce the
vulnerability of the Western Canada and Greater Yellowstone breeding
populations ...."
The paper goes on to describe data from 1127 birds that were translocated
during the study.
chris
At 03:20 PM 1/2/03 -0500, Paul Lehman wrote:
>IDFrontiers:
>
>This is a related, distribution and "countability," question in regards
>to recent postings on the identification of one or more possible
>Trumpeter Swans in the East (e.g., in Alabama). If in fact such birds
>are Trumpeters--and there is currently a group of four birds in Florida,
>as well as the debated bird in AL--plus recent Trumpeters in places like
>Tennessee and Texas, are they even "countable"? If one wishes to stay
>away from the purely listing aspect of this question, it is still an
>interesting distributional question. I assume that all of the recent
>Trumpeter Swans seen in the more southern sections of the eastern half
>of North America in winter--in places like Florida, Alabama, Tennessee,
>Texas, etc.--are introduced birds from the thriving populations being
>established all the way from upstate New York and Ontario west across
>the upper Great Lakes to Minnesota. Wintering birds from these areas are
>now turning up in good numbers in places like Iowa, eastern Nebraska,
>etc. I haven't heard anyone say that they think the more southern winter
>birds are vagrants from the long-established populations in the West--at
>least I hope that they aren't!
>
>I assume that many recently-raised birds are not banded (neck collared)?
>Also, is it not true that some states/provinces in this
>(re-)introduction area have accepted these birds now as established,
>whereas others have not, thus making determining the "countability" of
>the southern birds even more muddied.
>
>--Paul Lehman
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Fw: Collingwood CBC
From: Diane and Kayo Roy <kayoroy(AT)NIAGARA.COM>
Date: 2 Jan 2003 2:17pm
Hi Paul and others
Happy New Year to all.
Paul, I just read your message about the Trumpeter Swan dilemma, and the
very next message below yours was the attached Collingwood (Ontario) CBC,
where the very first bird listed was 'Trumpeter Swan.'
During my recent time with the OBRC (Secretary), the Trumpeter Swan
'countability' factor came up a few times. Ontario listers were asking the
OBRC members to take a position on this since the introduction program here
in Ontario has been on going for quite some time. Last year the OBRC (Peter
Burke - Chair) decided to leave the question unanswered, until at least
after the completion of the current new Ontario Breeding Bird Atlas (2006).
I must tell you Paul, that some members voiced their reluctance to even go
there in 2006. Cheers.
Kayo
Kayo Roy
13 Kinsman Court
Fonthill, ON.
L0S 1E3
kayoroy(AT)niagara.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Ironside" <bironside(AT)Georgian.net>
To: "ontbirds" <ontbirds(AT)hwcn.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 3:11 PM
Subject: Collingwood CBC
The first Collingwood Christmas Bird Count (in many years) was held on
Saturday, December 28 under overcast and windy conditions. 23 field
observers reported 50 species and 8154 individual birds.
HIGHLIGHTS:
1 Trumpeter Swan
2 Mute Swan
700 Mallard
2 Northern Goshawk
2 Merlin
129 Wild Turkey - would appear to be very low.
708 Herring Gull
3 Eastern Screech Owl
5 Northern Shrike
218 American Crow
433 Black Capped Chickadee
46 American Robin
2953 European Starling
115 American Goldfinch
Other winter finches appear to be absent in the Collingwood Count area.
Thanks to everyone who helped count.
Bill Ironside
Compiler
"Bill Ironside" <bironside(AT)Georgian.net>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Trumpeter Swan
From: Alan Wormington <wormington(AT)JUNO.COM>
Date: 2 Jan 2003 2:32pm
Everyone,
Some day Trumpeter Swan WILL be countable in the East, but that day is a
long way into the future. Even by ABA standards, there must be at least
ten GENERATIONS of a species to be considered "established" in an area.
And that does not necessarily mean ten YEARS -- if a particular
(released) bird happens to live ten or more years, it is no more
countable in its 10th year than when it was seen during its 1st year.
Therefore, birds seen that are considered "countable" (by ABA standards)
are only those that are 10th-generation birds -- I'm sure we have many
more years to wait before we can reach this conclusion about any
particular (individual) Trumpeter Swan in the East.
Alan Wormington,
Leamington
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Trumpeter Swans
From: "Kevin J. McGowan" <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 2 Jan 2003 3:03pm
At 04:15 PM 1/2/2003 -0500, Diane and Kayo Roy wrote:
>...
>During my recent time with the OBRC (Secretary), the Trumpeter Swan
>'countability' factor came up a few times. Ontario listers were asking the
>OBRC members to take a position on this since the introduction program here
>in Ontario has been on going for quite some time. Last year the OBRC (Peter
>Burke - Chair) decided to leave the question unanswered, until at least
>after the completion of the current new Ontario Breeding Bird Atlas (2006).
>I must tell you Paul, that some members voiced their reluctance to even go
>there in 2006. Cheers.
I certainly hope that the atlas will keep track of where those birds are
breeding! Just because a species is not yet established and is not
countable is no excuse for ignoring their occurrence. If they do get
established it would be good to know when and where they were occurring
along the way.
Kevin
*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan, Ph.D.
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Greater Roadrunner in MA, November 18, 2002
From: Jim Barton <redwing1986(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 2 Jan 2003 4:19pm
Hello, I would like to report as Greater Roadrunner as a yardbird in
Cotuit, MA, on Cape Cod, November 18, 2002. The bird was in my headlights
in my driveway about 5:45 p.m., as I recall. Detailed description on
request. The bird showed prominent spots under the tail, like familiar
cuckoos. The presence of these spots is not mentioned in the books.
Recent messages to me have indicated that GRRR (sic) can survive for
some time in trucks. A case instanced in my correspondence is a bird found
in Ohio, and presumed to have come from Mexico by truck. We have very
little railroad service on Cape Cod. The greater likelihood is that
November 18 was truck assisted.
According to the books, GRRR usually glide for short distances. That
flight behavior wouldn't have gotten November 18 across the Cape Cod Canal.
I LIKE this bird. Deciphering the image in the headlights was like
reading a black and white negative. Good for me.
A member of the Birdchat list was kind enough to send me a photo clearly
showing the spots under the tail. Thanks to him, again.
Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)attbi.com
Cambridge, MA
US Coordinator Proact in the Americas
Campaigning for birds and their habitats before it's too late
www.proactnow.org
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Greater Roadrunner vagrancy
From: Mike Patterson <celata(AT)pacifier.com>
Date: 2 Jan 2003 4:54pm
Roadrunners reported in Oregon (almost annually and
usually by birders visiting from out of State) invariably
turn out to be female Ring-necked Pheasants.
Which is not to say that a real Roadrunner couldn't
accidentally wind up in a truck from the ACME shipping
company and end up out of range...
--
Mike Patterson
Astoria, OR
celata(AT)pacifier.com
A child who becomes acquainted with the birds about him
hears every sound and puzzles out its meaning with a cleverness
that amazes those with ears who hear not.
-Neltje Blanchan
http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Trumpeter Swan populations
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 2 Jan 2003 9:02pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Greetings All
It is unlikely that Trumpeter Swans from the Pacific Northwest are vagrating
to the eastern U.S. Nonetheless, it is worth noting that the winter Trumpeter
Swan population in the Pacific NW (and presumably, the breeding population
farther north) is booming. When I moved to w. Washington 10 years ago, 200
Trumpeter Swans in Snohomish County would have been remarkable. This winter,
the population is near 800. A similar increase seems to have taken place
elsewhere in the Puget Trough. Again, the implication for the eastern US is
nearly nil, but for CA and other such "nearby" places, the chances of natural
vagrancy seems greatly increased.
Cheers
Steven Mlodinow
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: QRY: Greater Roadrunner vagrancy
From: "D. Heindel" <birdfish(AT)EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: 2 Jan 2003 8:06pm
----DELETED HTML-ENCODED SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: ID Greater Roadrunner vs. pheasant sp.
From: Jim Barton <redwing1986(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 2 Jan 2003 6:23pm
Hello. NO. This was a Greater Roadrunner. I am quite familiar with
female RNPH. The most likely source of confusion is female Golden
Pheasant. But the species are easily distinguished by size, shape and
deployment of tail, underside of tail, distribution of coloration, and
horizontal vs. longitudinal streaking (that is, the streaking goes around
the body on PH species, not along it). Please see detailed description,
available on request (which you didn't request).
I have received two requests for a detailed description, which I will
present shortly.
Yours,
Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)attbi.com
Cambridge, MA
US Coordinator Proact in the Americas
Campaigning for birds and their habitats before it's too late
www.proactnow.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Patterson" <celata(AT)pacifier.com>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Greater Roadrunner vagrancy
> Roadrunners reported in Oregon (almost annually and
> usually by birders visiting from out of State) invariably
> turn out to be female Ring-necked Pheasants.
>
> Which is not to say that a real Roadrunner couldn't
> accidentally wind up in a truck from the ACME shipping
> company and end up out of range...
>
> --
> Mike Patterson
> Astoria, OR
> celata(AT)pacifier.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Trumpeter Swan Translocation
From: Mark Stevenson <drbrdr(AT)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: 2 Jan 2003 6:25pm
What is likely the same article on Trumpeter Swan relocation in the west
referred to by Chris Elphick is available on-line at:
http://www.taiga.net/swans/publications/16th_conf/14Anglin.pdf
Mark Stevenson
Tucson, AZ
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Trumpeter Swan
From: Phil Davis <pdavis(AT)IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: 3 Jan 2003 12:07am
Alan, et al. -
[Note: This reply is not ID related, so any follow-up should probably be
moved to another forum, like Birdchat or BRCF-L ...]
The ABA has dropped the "ten year" rule ...
ABA listing rule 2.B.(iv) states:
"(iv) an indigenous species which is reintroduced into an historic range of
the species may be counted when the population meets the ABA Checklist's
definition of being established or when it is not possible to reasonably
separate the reintroduced individuals from naturally occurring individuals."
The current ABA Checklist definition of an "established" population (which
seems to primarily refer to breeding species) is now a "theoretical"
definition. It states that an exotic, (or reintroduced) bird is established
when (I'm paraphrasing and synopsizing):
(a) there is a contiguous population of interacting pairs
(b) the population is large enough to survive
(c) sufficient numbers are being fledged annually
(d) the population is not directly dependent of human support
The checklist goes on to state, "The ABA Checklist Committee has not
attempted to determine the distributional status of bird listed as
introduced species. We accept the determination of local bird records
committees in such cases ..."
So, I guess one may count Trumpeter Swans in the east when local records
committees accept them on their state lists ...
Phil
At 16:30 01/02/2003 -0500, Alan Wormington wrote:
>Some day Trumpeter Swan WILL be countable in the East, but that day is a
>long way into the future. Even by ABA standards, there must be at least
>ten GENERATIONS of a species to be considered "established" in an area.
>And that does not necessarily mean ten YEARS -- if a particular
>(released) bird happens to live ten or more years, it is no more
>countable in its 10th year than when it was seen during its 1st year.
>
>Therefore, birds seen that are considered "countable" (by ABA standards)
>are only those that are 10th-generation birds -- I'm sure we have many
>more years to wait before we can reach this conclusion about any
>particular (individual) Trumpeter Swan in the East.
==================================
Phil Davis Davidsonville, Maryland USA
mailto:PDavis(AT)ix.netcom.com
==================================
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: HERGs and Canada Geese pics
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 3 Jan 2003 7:37am
Dear all,
We may as well start the New Year in the Twilight Zone, so:
http://www.martinreid.com/cago2.html - shows two presumed hutchinsii
Canadas - but one has a whopping black throat divide; also re-added this
page: http://www.martinreid.com/cago.html of a presumed taverneri, for
comparison - note in this page the comments about the presence/absence of a
strong black throat divide in eastern populations of Canada Goose.
And here are five new presumed smithie HERGs to ponder, all from my local
patch recently:
http://www.martinreid.com/hsmitp74.html - there's something funky about
this bird.
http://www.martinreid.com/hsmitp75.html - this one seems to have replaced
the innermost greater coverts and possibly have an older (?) generation P10 - ?
http://www.martinreid.com/hsmitp76.html - this is a first for me - juv. and
adult-like scaps in the same bird in December?
http://www.martinreid.com/hsmitp77.html - the undertail coverts must be
close to the extreme for smithie.
http://www.martinreid.com/hsmitp78.html - I've seen some pretty
heavily-marked greater coverts on smithies, but this is beyond any I've
seen before.
Presuming these all to be North American HERGs, it widens the goalposts
even further for this "taxon" (I feel there are at least two taxa in North
America) - and the bloody goalposts were already on each sideline!
Stick to empids or knitting....
Cheers,
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: ID Greater Roadrunner vs. pheasant sp.
From: "Stephen J. Davies" <sdavies(AT)cgl.ucsf.edu>
Date: 3 Jan 2003 7:48am
Jim Barton wrote:
>A case instanced in my correspondence is a bird found
in Ohio, and presumed to have come from Mexico by truck.
If roadrunners are being imported by truck from Mexico, shouldn't the
possibility of Lesser Roadrunner (the range of which extends north to
southern Sonora) also be considered?
Regards
Stephen J. Davies
San Francisco, CA
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Barton
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 5:23 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] ID Greater Roadrunner vs. pheasant sp.
Hello. NO. This was a Greater Roadrunner. I am quite familiar
with
female RNPH. The most likely source of confusion is female Golden
Pheasant. But the species are easily distinguished by size, shape and
deployment of tail, underside of tail, distribution of coloration, and
horizontal vs. longitudinal streaking (that is, the streaking goes
around
the body on PH species, not along it). Please see detailed description,
available on request (which you didn't request).
I have received two requests for a detailed description, which I
will
present shortly.
Yours,
Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)attbi.com
Cambridge, MA
US Coordinator Proact in the Americas
Campaigning for birds and their habitats before it's too late
www.proactnow.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Patterson" <celata(AT)pacifier.com>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Greater Roadrunner vagrancy
> Roadrunners reported in Oregon (almost annually and
> usually by birders visiting from out of State) invariably
> turn out to be female Ring-necked Pheasants.
>
> Which is not to say that a real Roadrunner couldn't
> accidentally wind up in a truck from the ACME shipping
> company and end up out of range...
>
> --
> Mike Patterson
> Astoria, OR
> celata(AT)pacifier.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: a dull legged. streaked headed Yellow-legged Gull
in NF
From: Bruce Mactavish <bruce.mactavish1(AT)NF.SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 3 Jan 2003 4:36pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Here is a St. John's, Newfoundland gull that pushes the generally known
Yellow-legged Gull identification envelope.
http://stubird.dreamhost.com/YLGUSJNF010203BMA.jpg
http://stubird.dreamhost.com/YLGUSJNF010203BMB.jpg
It was photographed on January 2, 2003. Two features that don't fit the
widely accepted, though changing, ideas about Yellow-legged Gulls are
the January head streaking and the dull yellow legs. The legs in life
were dull, definitely yellow with a vague greenish cast. No hint of pink
or flesh colour. The digiscoped photo displays legs of a non-descript
colour. I ask the Yellow-legged Gull experts out there - can
Yellow-legged Gulls have dull yellow legs with a vague greenish cast?
The head streaking is an acceptable pattern being restricted to the
head. There is a concentration of streaking around the eye and over the
top of the head. From a couple 100 m the paler streaking on the nape was
not visible leaving a forward dusky cap running up over the center of
the crown. You can create the same affect by squinting your eyes at the
photo of the bird on the ice. This is a classic Yellow-legged Gull head
streaking pattern. Ten years ago the literature said Yellow-legged
Gulls weren't allowed to have head streaking after September or at the
latest October. This may be true for michahellis but the Atlantic
islands populations are known to hold the head streaking longer. The
full extent of this feature is not clear, to me at least. It is
complicated by isolated populations of Yellow-legged Gull from the
Canaries to the Azores having different breeding cycles. The Azorean
Yellow-legged Gulls are thought to be the most heavily streaked on the
head of all the Yellow-legged Gulls. The full seasonal extent of the
Azorean Yellow-legged Gull winter streaking is poorly known, but head
streaked individuals have been recorded at breeding sites in late March.
The Azores is the closest source of Yellow-legged Gulls to Newfoundland
- about two days away flying non stop at 35 mph. Autumn and winter
storms are large enough to include southeast Newfoundland and the Azores
in the same isobars. I would be interested in hearing thoughts on this
much head streaking in early January.
Other features about the bird are classic in my view of Newfoundland
Yellow-legged Gulls. A stubby bill, relatively thick and blunt, with a
large red gonydeal spot (there is a small black crescent in the red).
The head shape in the relaxed position on the ice, when it could barely
keep its eyes open, show the short steep forehead, fairly flat topped
crown and steeply dropping nape. This head shape together with the bill
produce a subtle look different from other gulls and is almost always
noted on the Newfoundland Yellow-legged Gulls. This shape can change
with attitude as is exhibited by the more rounded head while swimming
and actively bathing. The orbital ring was thin and deep red. The iris
was clear yellow slightly tinged olive. There was a fairly large mirror
in P10. The shot of the under side of P10 makes is look like the
subterminal bar is just breached. It was seen in flight when it flew
from the ice to the water and later when it left the lake. There
appeared to be a large mirror on P10 with a solid subterminal bar above
and no mirror on P9. The large area of black on the upper side of the
wing tip contrasted sharply with the grayer upper parts. The wing shape
was more HEGU-like than Lesser Black-backed Gull-like particularly in
being broader at the base. It was slightly smaller than the average
HEGU with a similarly full chest shape.
I think this a Yellow-legged Gull in full winter plumage. The heavy head
streaking, dull yellow legs and small black crescent in red gonydeal
spot indicate the state of plumage. The legs are duller and there is
more head streaking than any other Yellow-legged Gull we have claimed in
Newfoundland. It would be good to know the origin of this and other
Newfoundland Yellow-legged Gulls. Perhaps someone can help narrow down
the possibilities.
Jared Clarke and Ken Knowles were present for this bird. Stuart
Tingley provided space on his web site for the photos.
Bruce Mactavish
St. John's, Newfoundland
Canada
bruce.mactavish1(AT)nf.sympatico.ca
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: a dull legged. streaked headed Yellow-legged
Gull in NF
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
Date: 3 Jan 2003 5:08pm
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
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Interesting bird Bruce. I have a similar October bird here:
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=3D840
... which I suspect is an Atlantic bird. In the field, the legs of this
bird were dull yellowish =AD Coolpix digiscoping often seems to turn yellow
legs pink (your bird has pink legs on my screen). Points supporting an
Atlantic bird (lusitanius/atlantis) are the heavy head streaking, P7 =3D end
of tail (in mich P6 =3D end of tail), dull (not bright) yellow legs. Now, com=
e
early January, would this bird have lost all of its head streaking. Right
now we have quite a few adult michahellis here in Cambridge, UK =AD and they
are all very white-headed, but that would not put me off assigning your bir=
d
as a good atlantis =AD it even demonstrates the short legs of atlantis.
Happy New Year
Dick Newell
On 3/1/03 11:36 pm, "Bruce Mactavish" <bruce.mactavish1(AT)NF.SYMPATICO.CA>
wrote:
> Here is a St. John=B9s, Newfoundland gull that pushes the generally known
> Yellow-legged Gull identification envelope.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> http://stubird.dreamhost.com/YLGUSJNF010203BMA.jpg
>=20
> http://stubird.dreamhost.com/YLGUSJNF010203BMB.jpg
>=20
> =20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> It was photographed on January 2, 2003. Two features that don=B9t fit the w=
idely
> accepted, though changing, ideas about Yellow-legged Gulls are the Januar=
y
> head streaking and the dull yellow legs. The legs in life were dull,
> definitely yellow with a vague greenish cast. No hint of pink or flesh co=
lour.
> The digiscoped photo displays legs of a non-descript colour. I ask the
> Yellow-legged Gull experts out there - can Yellow-legged Gulls have dull
> yellow legs with a vague greenish cast? The head streaking is an acceptab=
le
> pattern being restricted to the head. There is a concentration of streaki=
ng
> around the eye and over the top of the head. From a couple 100 m the pale=
r
> streaking on the nape was not visible leaving a forward dusky cap running=
up
> over the center of the crown. You can create the same affect by squinting=
your
> eyes at the photo of the bird on the ice. This is a classic Yellow-legge=
d
> Gull head streaking pattern. Ten years ago the literature said Yellow-le=
gged
> Gulls weren=B9t allowed to have head streaking after September or at the la=
test
> October. This may be true for michahellis but the Atlantic islands
> populations are known to hold the head streaking longer. The full extent =
of
> this feature is not clear, to me at least. It is complicated by isolated
> populations of Yellow-legged Gull from the Canaries to the Azores having
> different breeding cycles. The Azorean Yellow-legged Gulls are thought t=
o be
> the most heavily streaked on the head of all the Yellow-legged Gulls. The=
full
> seasonal extent of the Azorean Yellow-legged Gull winter streaking is poo=
rly
> known, but head streaked individuals have been recorded at breeding sites=
in
> late March. The Azores is the closest source of Yellow-legged Gulls to
> Newfoundland =AD about two days away flying non stop at 35 mph. Autumn and
> winter storms are large enough to include southeast Newfoundland and the
> Azores in the same isobars. I would be interested in hearing thoughts on=
this
> much head streaking in early January.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Other features about the bird are classic in my view of Newfoundland
> Yellow-legged Gulls. A stubby bill, relatively thick and blunt, with a la=
rge
> red gonydeal spot (there is a small black crescent in the red). The head
> shape in the relaxed position on the ice, when it could barely keep its e=
yes
> open, show the short steep forehead, fairly flat topped crown and steeply
> dropping nape. This head shape together with the bill produce a subtle lo=
ok
> different from other gulls and is almost always noted on the Newfoundland
> Yellow-legged Gulls. This shape can change with attitude as is exhibited=
by
> the more rounded head while swimming and actively bathing. The orbital r=
ing
> was thin and deep red. The iris was clear yellow slightly tinged olive. =
There
> was a fairly large mirror in P10. The shot of the under side of P10 make=
s is
> look like the subterminal bar is just breached. It was seen in flight whe=
n it
> flew from the ice to the water and later when it left the lake. There app=
eared
> to be a large mirror on P10 with a solid subterminal bar above and no mir=
ror
> on P9. The large area of black on the upper side of the wing tip contrast=
ed
> sharply with the grayer upper parts. The wing shape was more HEGU-like t=
han
> Lesser Black-backed Gull-like particularly in being broader at the base. =
It
> was slightly smaller than the average HEGU with a similarly full chest sh=
ape.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> I think this a Yellow-legged Gull in full winter plumage. The heavy head
> streaking, dull yellow legs and small black crescent in red gonydeal spot
> indicate the state of plumage. The legs are duller and there is more hea=
d
> streaking than any other Yellow-legged Gull we have claimed in Newfoundla=
nd.
> It would be good to know the origin of this and other Newfoundland
> Yellow-legged Gulls. Perhaps someone can help narrow down the possibilit=
ies.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Jared Clarke and Ken Knowles were present for this bird. Stuart Tingley
> provided space on his web site for the photos.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Bruce Mactavish
>=20
> St. John's, Newfoundland
>=20
> Canada
>=20
> bruce.mactavish1(AT)nf.sympatico.ca
>=20
> =20
>=20
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Puzzling branta-type goose from New York
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 3 Jan 2003 6:00pm
Continuing the goose theme initiated by Steve Mlodinow and Martin Reid,
I have posted photographs of an interesting small goose taken in New
York City yesterday. In terms of structure, it appeared very similar to
the many Atlantic Brant it was with but differed in several other
respects. Is this a Brant x Canada hybrid (my bias at the moment) or an
aberrant Cackling Goose?
The URL is: http://www.oceanwanderers.com/OddBrant.html
Have Cackling Geese without strong cheek patches every been documented
in the wild or captivity? Is anything known about the regulation of body
size in waterfowl hybrids? In other words, can the pairing large and
small species produce a small hybrid or is it generally intermediate
between the two parental forms?
I imagine answers to these questions can be found in Eric and Barry
Gillham's compendium of waterfowl hybrids which alas I have not yet
bought. According to a flier Barry Gillham sent me, the latest inventory
(published 2002, ISBN 0-9511556-6-0) documents 220 hybrid combinations,
including two 'Swoose' (swan x goose) hybrids!
Comment on the Corona Park bird would be much appreciated and ideally
shared with the list.
Happy New Year, Angus Wilson
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: possible lesserscaup
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?kjell=20mj=F8lsnes?= <kjellhybrids(AT)YAHOO.NO>
Date: 3 Jan 2003 6:52pm
A possible young female lesser scaup was seen and
videoed at Sirevåg, Rogaland Norway on january 1. On
the following link some pictures can be seen:
http://www.digitalbirding.com
The text is in norwegian, but the main points are:
a small duck, about the size as tufted duck, and
clearly smaller than greater scaup which was also
present. The combination of size, bill- structure and
markings and head profile should rule out everything
but lesser scaup? Comments are very welcome, either to
this mailing list or to me in private at:
kjellmjolsnes(AT)hotmail.com
Happy new year!
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: possible lesserscaup
From: Jeff Gilligan <jeffgill(AT)TELEPORT.COM>
Date: 3 Jan 2003 11:01pm
I very much doubt that it is a Lesser Scaup. The one aspect that is clear
from the photos is that the bill is far too large to be that of a Lesser.
While three photos are possibly too few to determine the actual head shape,
the ehad shape also appears more typical for a Greater Scaup. (Both species
are common in Oregon.) Perhpas it is an unusually small Greater, based on
the comment that it is smaller than a Greater that was seen near it.
on 1/3/03 5:52 PM, kjell mjølsnes at kjellhybrids(AT)YAHOO.NO wrote:
> A possible young female lesser scaup was seen and
> videoed at Sirevåg, Rogaland Norway on january 1. On
> the following link some pictures can be seen:
> http://www.digitalbirding.com
> The text is in norwegian, but the main points are:
> a small duck, about the size as tufted duck, and
> clearly smaller than greater scaup which was also
> present. The combination of size, bill- structure and
> markings and head profile should rule out everything
> but lesser scaup? Comments are very welcome, either to
> this mailing list or to me in private at:
> kjellmjolsnes(AT)hotmail.com
> Happy new year!
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Få den nye Yahoo! Messenger på http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: possible lesserscaup
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?kjell=20mj=F8lsnes?= <kjellhybrids(AT)YAHOO.NO>
Date: 4 Jan 2003 3:38am
Hi
The possible lesser scaup seen in Norway had a rather
large bill, but the bill on greater scaup seen on the
same site seemed to be even bigger.
Seven pictures can be seen at
http://www.digitalbirding.com
When seeing the pictures, make sure you click the red
"link" three columns under the three first pictures.
More and better photos will be revealed!
Best wishes Kjell
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Subject: Re: possible lesserscaup
From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan(AT)CCSF.ORG>
Date: 4 Jan 2003 4:57am
On Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:38:14 +0100, kjell mjølsnes <kjellhybrids(AT)YAHOO.NO>
wrote:
>The possible lesser scaup seen in Norway had a rather
>large bill, but the bill on greater scaup seen on the
>same site seemed to be even bigger.
>Seven pictures can be seen at
>http://www.digitalbirding.com
>When seeing the pictures, make sure you click the red
>"link" three columns under the three first pictures.
>More and better photos will be revealed!
Thanks for pointing out the better pictures. I have considerable
experience with both species of scaup here in California and I feel that
your bird is not typical of either species.
In particular your bird has:
1. Whitish undertail coverts which is not normal on any scaup.
2. Stronger contrast between the back and sides than expected on scaup.
3. Sloping forehead with the peak of the head well behind the eye. Lesser
Scaup has a much steeper forehead often with the head peaking over or in
front of the eye.
My best guess is that you have a female Tufted Duck (one photo shows a
trace of a tuft). Another possibility is a Tufted Duck X Greater Scaup
hybrid, although I would like to completely eliminate the possibility of
pure Tufted Duck first.
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
SF Spring Birding Classes - Feb 4 http://fog.ccsf.org/~jmorlan/
California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/
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