ID-FRONTIERS for March 9-15, 2003

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Thayer's Gulls with pale wingtips   Jean Iron    Sun, 9 Mar 2003   4:39pm   Thayer's/Kumlien's/Iceland Gulls   E.Mills(AT)DAL.CA   Sun, 9 Mar 2003   9:10pm   Re: Thayer's/Kumlien's/Iceland Gulls   Matt Kenne    Sun, 9 Mar 2003   9:43pm   Re: Thayer's/Kumlien's/Iceland Gulls   Norman D.van Swelm   Mon, 10 Mar 2003   6:24am   Re: Thayer's Gulls with pale wingtips   Joseph Morlan    Mon, 10 Mar 2003   8:01am   Re: Thayer's/Kumlien's/Iceland Gulls   Matt Kenne    Mon, 10 Mar 2003   11:32am   Re: Thayer's/Kumlien's/Iceland Gulls   Jerry Tangren    Mon, 10 Mar 2003   1:00pm   Howell/MacTavish on adult winter Kumlien's in Alula   Jim Barton    Tue, 11 Mar 2003   8:10am   Re: California Iceland Gull   Steven Mlodinow    Tue, 11 Mar 2003   5:00pm   Full reference for Howell and Mactavish on Kumlien's Gulls   Jim Barton    Wed, 12 Mar 2003   7:08am   RFI: Specimens of Fegetta grallaria   Ross and Lyn Silcock   Thu, 13 Mar 2003   12:18am   Fregetta grallaria!   Ross and Lyn Silcock   Thu, 13 Mar 2003   12:22am

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Subject: Thayer's Gulls with pale wingtips
From: Jean Iron <jeaniron(AT)SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 9 Mar 2003 4:39pm

Steve Mlodinow (at bottom) mentioned Thayer's Gulls with pale wingtips near
Port Angeles on Olympic Peninsula in the state of Washington along the
Pacific Coast. I would like to add to this discussion with information
about pale-winged Thayer's on the breeding grounds in Canada.

It is a little known fact that Thayer's Gulls with pale wingtips are found
on the breeding grounds at high latitudes in the Canadian Arctic, such as
near Eureka on Ellesmere Island at 80 degrees north. These Thayer's with
pale wingtips were reported by Parmelee and MacDonald (1960) in Bulletin
169 of the National Museum of Canada. They describe the primary
pigmentation and patterns of nine adult specimens: "The tips of the
primaries (excluding mirrors) grade from dark grey to grey to very light
grey in four males; from very dark grey (nearly black) to grey in four
females. The fifth female has the entire wing tips white or nearly
white..." These and other skins of pale-winged Thayer's are in the Canadian
Museum of Nature (formerly National Museum of Canada). Except for their
paler wingtips, they are otherwise similar to Thayer's and were classified
as Thayer's by the late W. Earl Godfrey. Why are these birds classified as
Thayer's and not Kumlien's? They come from the breeding range of Thayer's
at least 600 miles from Kumlien's on southern Baffin Island. Their darker
mantles and larger measurements (especially the bill) also agree with
Thayer's rather than Kumlien's. There's an illustration of a "pale extreme"
wingtip of Thayer's Gull on page 264 in The Birds of Canada (Godfrey 1986).
These pale-winged Thayer's suggest past introgression with nominate Iceland
or Kumlien's or possibly even Glaucous Gulls. They represent part of the
variability found in Thayer's Gulls.

I did an article on the "Taxonomic History of Thayer's Gull" in the April
1999 issue of Ontario Birds 17(1): 2-13. If you would like a copy, please
e-mail your full postal address.

Happy gull watching,

Ron Pittaway
Minden, Ontario
E-mail: jeaniron(AT)sympatico.ca

At 12:22 PM 3/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Greetings All
>
>To add to Iceland/Thayer's confusion-
>
>At times, usually in late fall, hundreds of Thayer's Gulls concentrate
>near Port Angeles on Washington's Olympic Peninsula. These birds are
>roosting, so views of spread wings are limited. However, the folded
>wingtip is not-black (varying shades of gray) in 10% or so of these birds.
>Some have folded wingtips = in shade to the wing coverts. None of these
>birds are paler mantled than the other more typical Thayer's. I think it
>unlikely that these are all Thayer's X Iceland Gulls, especially given
>that Iceland Gull is very rare in WA. Most likely, these are just part of
>the Thayer's Gull spectrum.
>
>Cheers
>Steve Mlodinow

Jean Iron
9 Lichen Place
Toronto ON  M3A 1X3
416-445-9297
e-mail: jeaniron(AT)sympatico.ca


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Subject: Thayer's/Kumlien's/Iceland Gulls
From: E.Mills(AT)DAL.CA
Date: 9 Mar 2003 9:10pm

        No one has mentioned the following paper on the
Thayer's/Kumlien's problem. Admittedly, it doesn't help us directly
with field problems, but its explanation of the phenomena we
observe is so interesting that I think it deserves to be better known.
        D.N. Weir, A.C. Kitchener, & R.Y. McGowan, 2000.
Hybridization and changes in the distribution of Iceland Gulls.
Journal of Zoology 252 (4): 517-530.
        By chance, volume 252 of the Journal of Zoology is missing
from the SIO Libary, where I am working at the moment. But from
memory, the gist of the paper is that Kumlien's Gulls are a hybrid
swarm derived from fairly recent (and maybe continuing)
interbreeding between the two parent taxa, Thayer's Gull and
nominate Iceland Gull. That explains a lot, and as a long-time
connaisseur of Kumlien's Gull variation, I find it plausible and
compelling.

Eric Mills
Scripps Institution of Oceanography Archives
University of California at San Diego
La Jolla, CA 92093-9219, USA
(to 31 March 2003)
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Dr Eric L. Mills
Professor of History of Science (Retired)
Adjunct Professor
Dept.of Oceanography
Dalhousie University, Halifax, N.S., CANADA  B3H 4J1
Inglis Professor, University of King's College
(902)494-3437; Fax(902)494-3877; e-mail:E.Mills(AT)Dal.Ca
http://www.dal.ca/~wwwocean/ocean_C907.html
http://www.dal.ca/~wwwocean/sites/mills/mills.htm
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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Subject: Re: Thayer's/Kumlien's/Iceland Gulls
From: Matt Kenne <mkenne(AT)NETAMUMAIL.COM>
Date: 9 Mar 2003 9:43pm

Ron Pittaway mentioned the Thayer's/Iceland Birds of North America account
by Richard Snell earlier in this discussion. I saw that Buteo Books received
this lot last week, so subscribers to the series should also be receiving
theirs. Would someone please share how their taxonomy, hybridization, and
separation are handled in this piece? Thanks.

Matthew Kenne
Algona, Iowa
mkenne(AT)netamumail.com


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Subject: Re: Thayer's/Kumlien's/Iceland Gulls
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 10 Mar 2003 6:24am

Matthew wrote:> Ron Pittaway mentioned the Thayer's/Iceland Birds of North
America account
> by Richard Snell earlier in this discussion. I saw that Buteo Books
received
> this lot last week, so subscribers to the series should also be receiving<

Matthew could you give us the details of this book please?
Norman


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Subject: Re: Thayer's Gulls with pale wingtips
From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan(AT)CCSF.ORG>
Date: 10 Mar 2003 8:01am

On Sun, 9 Mar 2003 18:41:17 -0500, Jean Iron <jeaniron(AT)SYMPATICO.CA> wrote:

>The fifth female has the entire wing tips white or nearly
>white..."

Now we're in big trouble.  In the field, how would one distinguish such a
bird from the accepted Iceland in California at:

http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/photos/icgu1.html

...and what would the juvenile of such a bird look like?

>These and other skins of pale-winged Thayer's are in the Canadian
>Museum of Nature (formerly National Museum of Canada). Except for their
>paler wingtips, they are otherwise similar to Thayer's and were classified
>as Thayer's by the late W. Earl Godfrey. Why are these birds classified as
>Thayer's and not Kumlien's? They come from the breeding range of Thayer's
>at least 600 miles from Kumlien's on southern Baffin Island. Their darker
>mantles and larger measurements (especially the bill) also agree with
>Thayer's rather than Kumlien's. There's an illustration of a "pale extreme"
>wingtip of Thayer's Gull on page 264 in The Birds of Canada (Godfrey 1986).
>These pale-winged Thayer's suggest past introgression with nominate Iceland
>or Kumlien's or possibly even Glaucous Gulls. They represent part of the
>variability found in Thayer's Gulls.

Perhaps this has some bearing on the identity of small white winged-gulls
photographed in the Bearing Sea by Larry Spear.  From my memory of seeing
the slides several years ago, they looked very much like nominate Iceland.
They were apparently fairly common in one area.

--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
California Birding & new rarities http://fog.ccsf.org/~jmorlan/
California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/


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Subject: Re: Thayer's/Kumlien's/Iceland Gulls
From: Matt Kenne <mkenne(AT)NETAMUMAIL.COM>
Date: 10 Mar 2003 11:32am

> Matthew could you give us the details of this book please?
> Norman

Buteo Books? It's the company at www.buteobooks.com that has contracted to
sell individual species accounts from the Birds of North America series to
persons that aren't subscribed to the whole series.

Matt


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Subject: Re: Thayer's/Kumlien's/Iceland Gulls
From: Jerry Tangren <tangren(AT)WSU.EDU>
Date: 10 Mar 2003 1:00pm

Eric, SIO should have on-line access to this paper--ask the library
resource person there. The Journal of Zoology is carried as an on-line
service to many university libraries.

--Jerry <tangren(AT)wsu.edu>
WSU-Tree Fruit Research & Extension Center

On Sunday, March 9, 2003, at 08:09 PM, E.Mills(AT)DAL.CA wrote:

>         No one has mentioned the following paper on the
> Thayer's/Kumlien's problem. Admittedly, it doesn't help us directly
> with field problems, but its explanation of the phenomena we
> observe is so interesting that I think it deserves to be better known.
>         D.N. Weir, A.C. Kitchener, & R.Y. McGowan, 2000.
> Hybridization and changes in the distribution of Iceland Gulls.
> Journal of Zoology 252 (4): 517-530.
>         By chance, volume 252 of the Journal of Zoology is missing
> from the SIO Libary, where I am working at the moment. But from
> memory, the gist of the paper is that Kumlien's Gulls are a hybrid
> swarm derived from fairly recent (and maybe continuing)
> interbreeding between the two parent taxa, Thayer's Gull and
> nominate Iceland Gull. That explains a lot, and as a long-time
> connaisseur of Kumlien's Gull variation, I find it plausible and
> compelling.
>
> Eric Mills
> Scripps Institution of Oceanography Archives
> University of California at San Diego
> La Jolla, CA 92093-9219, USA
> (to 31 March 2003)
> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> Dr Eric L. Mills
> Professor of History of Science (Retired)
> Adjunct Professor
> Dept.of Oceanography
> Dalhousie University, Halifax, N.S., CANADA  B3H 4J1
> Inglis Professor, University of King's College
> (902)494-3437; Fax(902)494-3877; e-mail:E.Mills(AT)Dal.Ca
> http://www.dal.ca/~wwwocean/ocean_C907.html
> http://www.dal.ca/~wwwocean/sites/mills/mills.htm
> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
>


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Subject: Howell/MacTavish on adult winter Kumlien's in
         Alula
From: Jim Barton <redwing1986(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 11 Mar 2003 8:10am

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

    Hello.  My latest copy of Alula just arrived.  The lead article is =
entitled "Identification and Variation of Winter Adult Kumlien's Gulls." =
 The authors are Steve Howell and Bruce MacTavish.  I have not waited to =
study  the article before alerting you to it.  lt appears to be the =
result of extensive study. =20

    The website is www.alula.fi The editorial board includes Lars =
Jonsson, Paul Lehman and Killian Mullarney.    The photography is =
superb.  Back issues 1995-2001 are available at 4 euros each (3 euros to =
subscribers). =20

    Yours,=20

Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)attbi.com
Cambridge, MA
US Coordinator Proact in the Americas
Campaigning for birds and their habitats before it's too late
www.proactnow.org
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Subject: Re: California Iceland Gull
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 11 Mar 2003 5:00pm

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Greetings All

Among the arctic Thayer's Gulls, the one bird with white wing tips could
certainly have been a wayward Iceland.

In any case, the other birds were identical to "typical" Thayer's, differing
only in the color of the dark on the wingtips (not the extent of dark, the
back color, etc).

The CA bird seems quite pale back, has virtually no dark on the wingtips, and
has a pale eye -- all seeming to point to Iceland rather than Thayer's.

Cheers
Steven Mlodinow

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Subject: Full reference for Howell and Mactavish on
         Kumlien's Gulls
From: Jim Barton <redwing1986(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 12 Mar 2003 7:08am

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

         I am providing the full reference for Howell and Mactavish on =
Kumlien's Gulls in the current issue of Alula,at the request of a =
subscriber who wants to obtain the article on inter-library loan. =20

          Howell, Steve N.G. and Bruce Mactavish, "Identification and =
Variation of  Winter Adult Kumlien's Gulls."  Alula Volume 9,            =
                                1/2003. www.alula.fi=20

          Antero Topp, editor-chief, Espoo, Finland..  =
antero.topp(AT)alula.fi=20

        Yours,

Jim Barton
redwing1986(AT)attbi.com
Cambridge, MA
US Coordinator Proact in the Americas
Campaigning for birds and their habitats before it's too late
www.proactnow.org
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Subject: RFI: Specimens of Fegetta grallaria
From: Ross and Lyn Silcock <silcock(AT)HEARTLAND.NET>
Date: 13 Mar 2003 12:18am

Hi all:
I am curious about two specimens of F. grallaria and wonder if anyone knows
where they may be located. One was collected at Upolu, Samoa, by the
American Exploring Expedition and the other at Ua Pou in the Marquesas
Islands by Rollo Beck in 1922.
Ross

Ross Silcock
Tabor, Iowa, USA
silcock(AT)rosssilcock.com
New Zealand Land and Pelagic Tours
www.rosssilcock.com


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Subject: Fregetta grallaria!
From: Ross and Lyn Silcock <silcock(AT)HEARTLAND.NET>
Date: 13 Mar 2003 12:22am

Sorry, correct spelling above (it's getting late).
Ross

Ross Silcock
Tabor, Iowa, USA
silcock(AT)rosssilcock.com
New Zealand Land and Pelagic Tours
www.rosssilcock.com