ID-FRONTIERS for April 6-12, 2003

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Re: Fw: Great Gull   Norman D.van Swelm   Mon, 7 Apr 2003   1:53am   Great Gull moult   Norman D.van Swelm   Mon, 7 Apr 2003   2:31am   Pochard record   Lethaby, Nick   Mon, 7 Apr 2003   2:11pm   Fw: Fw: Pochard record   Tony Morris    Mon, 7 Apr 2003   11:54pm   Interesting shorebird in Taiwan   Kenn Kaufman    Thu, 10 Apr 2003   11:22pm   Re: Spizella sparrow near Elma(photos) (fwd)   Derek Hill    Fri, 11 Apr 2003   10:00am   Mystery sparrow from Wisconsin   John Idzikowski    Fri, 11 Apr 2003   10:10am   Re: Mystery sparrow from Wisconsin   Mike Patterson    Fri, 11 Apr 2003   10:56am   Re: Mystery sparrow from Wisconsin   Luke Cole    Fri, 11 Apr 2003   11:17am   Re: Mystery sparrow from Wisconsin   John Idzikowski    Fri, 11 Apr 2003   12:06pm

To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'. This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.

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Subject: Re: Fw: Great Gull
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 7 Apr 2003 1:53am

Peter Adriaens wrote:> This is also my last post on this bird, as I think
the main question "Is gull A a typical
> Kelp Gull?" has been answered.<
Has it really? What do you know about typical Kelp Gulls that we don't?
Norman


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Subject: Great Gull moult
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 7 Apr 2003 2:31am

Some of the great names in moult (molt) studies have suggested that "gull a
" has lost all greater coverts and that consequently the dark band we see in
the wing are secondaries. Considering the state the primaries are in any
expert can tell you that were this to be true this would be very strange and
contrary the normal mo(u)lt pattern.

It is in fact quite the reverse,  the greater coverts of "Gull a" are in
place while the secondaries are missing. Have a look again at plate 13,
p.117 in Birding World Vol. 14, no 3 (2001). Underneath the row of greater
coverts you can see the broad white fringes of it's fresh secondaries which
in "Gull a " are only beginning to grow which explains why they are
invisible.
Norman


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Subject: Pochard record
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 7 Apr 2003 2:11pm

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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All:

I happened to visit the California Bird Records Committee site today and
while looking through the photos found a couple of pictures of 2 Common
Pochards from Bolsa Chica in CA in 1994. Although this record was accepted
according to the photo caption, these birds struck me as being more likely
to be Canvasback hybrids (presumably with Redheads). I found about 10 decent
photos of of male Common Pochards on the web and these tended to confirm my
feelings. What troubles me about these birds is the following:

1/ Both birds show fairly extensive blackish coloration on the
forehead/loral area and up towards the forecrown. This is a distinguishing
feature of Canvasback from Pochard. In the photos of Pochard I checked, one
bird has a small dark spot in fromt of the eye and all the others seemed to
lack any dark around this region. An apparent Canvasback/Redhead hybrid (and
definitely not a Pochard) photographed in Ontario shows some dark in this
area.

2/ The amount of dark on the bill. This seemed to exceed that shown by any
of the Pochard photos I looked at. For example several of these have the
nostril partly of wholly surrounded by blue or at least a dirty blue. Those
that had the nostril enclosed in black, showed clear blue extending back
towards the base along the culmen. The Bolsa Chica birds don't show any of
this.

3/ Head/bill shape. This seems rather Canvasback-like to me, but it may be a
product of the way the bill base merges concolorously into the face (see
point one).

I would be very interested in opinions of other observers on these two
birds.

To see the images go to http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/photos/index.html and
scroll down until you see the Common Pochard record.

Nick Lethaby
DSP/BIOS Product Manager
Texas Instruments
805 562 5106
nlethaby(AT)ti.com

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Subject: Fw: Fw: Pochard record
From: Tony Morris <tonymorris(AT)easynet.co.uk>
Date: 7 Apr 2003 11:54pm

I took the liberty of forwarding this question to Malcolm Ogilvie, who
as you probably know is probably "the" expert on wildfowl in the UK
(if not the world). His response is below.
Tony Morris
The Hidden House
28 Kingsdown Road
St Margaret's at Cliffe
Dover
Kent
CT15 6AZ
Tel: 01304851943
Mob: 07966740048
tonymorris(AT)easynet.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Ogilvie" <Malcolm(AT)ogilvie.org>
To: "Tony Morris" <tonymorris(AT)easynet.co.uk>
Sent: 08 April 2003 07:33
Subject: Re: Fw: [BIRDWG01] Pochard record

 Hi Tony

 No, I don't subscribe so hadn't seen this.

 Most interesting photos. I'm not entirely convinced by Nick Lethaby's
 arguments that they are not Pochards, though. Taking his points in
 order.

 1. I'm unsure to what extent the blackish colouring on the forehead
is
 real or an artefact of the photographs. If you enlarge the photos to
 full screen (19" monitor), the effect is not so apparent as on the
 smaller pics on the website.

 2. The black on the upper part of the bill is certainly extensive,
but I
 have a couple of photographs of male Pochard with the nostrils
 completely surrounded by black and without any blue running back
towards
 the culmen.

 3. The head shape of the rear bird in the upper photograph is
decidedly
 odd for either Pochard (lack of concavity in the line from crown to
 bill) or Canvasback (line from crown to bill too steep), but head
shape
 is, in my experience, very difficult to get exactly right in a
 photograph. The nearer bird and the one (presumably the same) shown
in
 the lower photograph is fine for Pochard.

 4. Unfortunately, the photographs aren't really good enough to be
 certain just how pale the birds were. The upper photograph shows them
 very pale, the lower one much less so.

 I don't know if you have my and Steve Young's 'Photographic Guide to
 Wildfowl of the World' but the photographs of Pochard and Canvasback
in
 there are quite helpful, especially on head shape.

 I don't know if you were intending to respond to the mailing list,
but
 you are welcome to quote me if you think it would help the discussion
 along.

 Best wishes

 Malcolm


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Subject: Interesting shorebird in Taiwan
From: Kenn Kaufman <kennk(AT)IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: 10 Apr 2003 11:22pm

Hello Frontiers:

I've just had an exchange of e-mails with Wayne Hsu about a very
interesting shorebird photographed today (April 10th) in southern Taiwan.
It may have been an aberrant Marsh Sandpiper, but it's unlike any plumage
I've ever seen.

photos can be seen here:

http://kite.center.kl.edu.tw/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=16&topic=1319&show=0

and here:

http://kite.center.kl.edu.tw/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=16&topic=1319&start=
10&show=0

(if this long URL breaks in your e-mail, you may have to cut-and-paste it
into your browser to get to the site.)

Wayne says that the original observer reported the bird had yellowish
legs and appeared only slightly larger than Marsh Sandpipers in direct
comparison.

Has anyone seen a bird like this?  I'd be interested to know -- and
please copy responses to Wayne at
WayneHsu(AT)birdlover.com

Thanks all.
Kenn Kaufman
Tucson, Arizona


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Subject: Re: Spizella sparrow near Elma(photos) (fwd)
From: Derek Hill <kinglet32(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 11 Apr 2003 10:00am

In response to the odd Spizella near Elma, I too had an odd
Clay-colored-like Spizella that I assume is hybrid.  I found this bird on
4/17/00 at my home in Richardson, TX.  Plumage-wise it didn't strike me as
being a normal Clay-colored, and the song is what threw me off the most.  I
asked for help on the ID and asked a couple sparrow experts who said it
could be some odd Spizella hybrid combination but it's impossible to know
for sure.

Texas bird:
http://www.geocities.com/kinglet32/spizella.htm

Elma bird:
http://photos.yahoo.com/godwit2003/

Good birding,

Derek Hill
Richardson, TX
kinglet32(AT)hotmail.com
http://www.geocities.com/kinglet32
http://springcreekforest.virtualave.net

>From: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
>Reply-To: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
>To: BIRDWG01(AT)listserv.arizona.edu
>Subject: [BIRDWG01] Spizella sparrow near Elma(photos) (fwd)
>Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 15:56:39 -0800
>
>HI:
>  Any comments?
>
>Ian Paulsen
>Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
>ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
>A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
>"Rallidae all the way"
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 14:45:21 -0800
>From: Ruth Sullivan <GODWIT(AT)worldnet.att.net>
>To: tweeters(AT)u.washington.edu
>Subject: Spizella sparrow near Elma(photos)
>
>Hello Tweets,
>
>My mother and I have placed 4 photos of the unidentified Spizella sparrow
>that we observed yesterday near Elma,hoping we may get some feedback on the
>possible identity of the bird between either an abbarent Clay-colored
>Sparrow or a hybrid between a Chipping and Clay-colored Sparrow. We have
>placed the 4 photos at our yahoo site at:
>http://photos.yahoo.com/godwit2003/. The photos labeled sparrow1-3 were
>taken by mother at very close range and are of the best quality and the
>photo labeled sparrow4 was taken by me(Patrick) and is of less quality,but
>perhaps we may still get some feedback from anyone that may give us an
>opinion in open or privately. Nevertheless,it is a very intersting
>sparrow,even if it turns out to be a hybrid.
>
>Thank you for any assistance,
>
>Ruth and Patrick Sullivan
>godwit(AT)worldnet.att.net

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Subject: Mystery sparrow from Wisconsin
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 11 Apr 2003 10:10am

This bird appeared at a feeder in early April in southern Wisconsin. Your
opinions are most appreciated.

http://community.webshots.com/album/69262308xSVmwk

John Idzikowski, Milwaukee


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Subject: Re: Mystery sparrow from Wisconsin
From: Mike Patterson <celata(AT)PACIFIER.COM>
Date: 11 Apr 2003 10:56am

Did you really take this picture in North America?

Because it's not a sparrow it's a finch and with all
that white in the tail, it's gotta be a LINNET

http://www.izi-co.com/finch/linnet/linnet3.htm

John Idzikowski wrote:
>
> This bird appeared at a feeder in early April in southern Wisconsin. Your
> opinions are most appreciated.
>
> http://community.webshots.com/album/69262308xSVmwk
>
> John Idzikowski, Milwaukee

--
Mike Patterson
Astoria, OR
celata(AT)pacifier.com

A child who becomes acquainted with the birds about him
hears every sound and puzzles out its meaning with a cleverness
that amazes those with ears who hear not.

                                               -Neltje Blanchan

http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html


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Subject: Re: Mystery sparrow from Wisconsin
From: Luke Cole <luke(AT)IGC.ORG>
Date: 11 Apr 2003 11:17am

The fact that International Zoological IMPORTS -- that great site Mike P has
provided the link to -- is about 20 miles south of the Wisconsin border and
about 40 miles from Milwaukee, should give pause to all of you who are
busily booking your plane reservations to see the linnet.

Luke Cole
San Francisco

-----Original Message-----

Did you really take this picture in North America?

Because it's not a sparrow it's a finch and with all
that white in the tail, it's gotta be a LINNET

http://www.izi-co.com/finch/linnet/linnet3.htm

John Idzikowski wrote:
>
> This bird appeared at a feeder in early April in southern Wisconsin. Your
> opinions are most appreciated.
>
> http://community.webshots.com/album/69262308xSVmwk
>
> John Idzikowski, Milwaukee

--
Mike Patterson
Astoria, OR
celata(AT)pacifier.com

A child who becomes acquainted with the birds about him
hears every sound and puzzles out its meaning with a cleverness
that amazes those with ears who hear not.

                                               -Neltje Blanchan

http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html


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Subject: Re: Mystery sparrow from Wisconsin
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 11 Apr 2003 12:06pm

This one was quick. The overwhelming response was for Linnet from 10
respondents. As mentioned, there is an importer of Eurasian finches about 20
miles from where this bird appeared. Here's a link to their species list.
We've also had 5 reports this winter of European Goldfinch from southern
Wisconsin as well.

http://www.izi-co.com/finch_home.htm

John Idzikowski, Milwaukee