ID-FRONTIERS for April 13-19, 2003

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   RFH: a palish HERG from Germany   Martin Reid    Sun, 13 Apr 2003   5:42am   Immature Swan ID   Caleb Putnam    Sun, 13 Apr 2003   7:27am   Re: Interesting shorebird in Taiwan   Harry Lehto    Sun, 13 Apr 2003   10:13am   Common Teal on Bainbridge Island,WA (fwd)   Ian Paulsen    Sun, 13 Apr 2003   4:57pm   Quiz 26 and more   Michel Bertrand    Mon, 14 Apr 2003   9:27am   Re: RFH: a palish HERG from Germany   Norman D.van Swelm   Mon, 14 Apr 2003   1:58pm   Re: RFH: a palish HERG from Germany   Harry Lehto    Mon, 14 Apr 2003   10:58pm   Re: palish HERG from Germany   Tim Vaughan    Tue, 15 Apr 2003   4:51am   Anna's Hummingbird field mark?   Ian Paulsen    Wed, 16 Apr 2003   11:11am   RFH: an unusual Bonaparte's Gull from France   Martin Reid    Thu, 17 Apr 2003   4:51am   Re: RFH: an unusual Bonaparte's Gull from France   Julian Hough    Thu, 17 Apr 2003   6:27am   glaucous-winged vs Western Gulls   Ian Paulsen    Sat, 19 Apr 2003   2:40pm

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Subject: RFH: a palish HERG from Germany
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 13 Apr 2003 5:42am

Dear all,
Christoph Bock as asked me to host and request input on this gull:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp34.html
Certain features indicate a hybrid origin (bill shape/pattern, eye
crescents, tertial pattern, etc.), but could these all be a combination of
variations in a pure 2B/2W nominate HERG?
If you prefer to answer Christoph directly, his email is
ChristophBock(AT)t-online.de
TIA,
Martin

Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com


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Subject: Immature Swan ID
From: Caleb Putnam <larus10(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 13 Apr 2003 7:27am

Hello Birders-

I recently (Mar 31, 2003 and April 4, 2003) observed a grayish second
calendar-year swan in western Montana, USA which may be a Trumpeter Swan.
Please see nine photos at:

http://community.webshots.com/album/69263652SYblZl

Some sources indicate that in their first year of life Tundra and Trumpeter
swans are not identifiable by many well-known separating features of adults
(bill shape, culmen concavity, shape of bill feathering at base of culmen
and gape, vocalizations).  This individual, however, had a consistently
lower pitched vocalization than any Tundra Swan present (including at least
1 SY Tundra), and seemed to have many features of Trumpeter Swan, including
large bill shape and proportions, large body, postural differences, V-shaped
feathering at base of culmen, jizz, darker upperparts, and other traits.

1)  Does this combination of field marks at this age make the Montana bird a
Trumpeter, or could it still be a Tundra?

2)  At what age do HY/SY swans acquire adult-like vocalizations, bill
feathering and bill shape, and other features?

Cheers,
Caleb Putnam

Caleb G Putnam
Stevensville, Montana
larus10(AT)hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________


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Subject: Re: Interesting shorebird in Taiwan
From: Harry Lehto <hlehto(AT)OJ287.ASTRO.UTU.FI>
Date: 13 Apr 2003 10:13am

Kenn,
     I forwarded your message to the Finnish birdlist. The four replies
have all suggested that this is staining, possibly in some iron containing
water. A few years ago there were some Magpies (Pica pica) in Jyväskylä,
Finland which showed pink coloration in the white parts of their plumage.
See  www.astro.utu.fi/hlehto/photo/color/

Regards
Harry J Lehto
hlehto(AT)utu.fi

P.S. If this doesn't reach you also though BIRDWG01, feel free then to
forward it to the list, since then I've had some problems with it.

 > I've just had an exchange of e-mails with Wayne Hsu about a very
> interesting shorebird photographed today (April 10th) in southern Taiwan.
> It may have been an aberrant Marsh Sandpiper, but it's unlike any plumage
> I've ever seen.
>
> photos can be seen here:
>
> http://kite.center.kl.edu.tw/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=16&topic=1319&show=0
>
> and here:
>
> http://kite.center.kl.edu.tw/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=16&topic=1319&start=
> 10&show=0
>
> (if this long URL breaks in your e-mail, you may have to cut-and-paste it
> into your browser to get to the site.)
>
> Wayne says that the original observer reported the bird had yellowish
> legs and appeared only slightly larger than Marsh Sandpipers in direct
> comparison.
>
> Has anyone seen a bird like this?  I'd be interested to know -- and
> please copy responses to Wayne at
> WayneHsu(AT)birdlover.com
>
> Thanks all.
> Kenn Kaufman
> Tucson, Arizona
>

--
_____________________________________________________________________
   Dr. Harry J Lehto             Assistant Professor, Docent
   Tuorla Observatory            Yliassistentti, Dosentti
   Turku University              Tel: +358-2-2744263
   Väisäläntie 20                Fax: +358-2-2433767
   21500 Piikkiö, FINLAND        email: hlehto(AT)utu.fi
______________________________________________________________________


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Subject: Common Teal on Bainbridge Island,WA (fwd)
From: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 13 Apr 2003 4:57pm

hi all:
 see below!

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:47:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)krl.org>
To: tweeters(AT)u.washington.edu
Subject: Common Teal on Bainbridge Island,WA

HI ALL:
 I refound a "Common Teal" male here on Bainbridge Island, Kitsap County,
WA that was found by Brad Waggoner yesterday at Murden Cove, about 2 miles
north of the ferry terminal. I noticed on page 88 on the Sibley guide he
shows a white mark on the flank near the black and yellow undertail for
ony this form. But I noticed this on the American-types too! Has anyone
else noticed this on Americans before??

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"


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Subject: Quiz 26 and more
From: Michel Bertrand <bertrmi(AT)COLBA.NET>
Date: 14 Apr 2003 9:27am

Hi,

My main computer is broken and I have lost all the received messages I had,
including those to the quiz 26 (Défi 26) of QuébecOiseaux (see, hereafter, what
we will do with that) and all my e-mail addresses. I want to apologize to the
people who were waiting an answer from me. I'm trying to answer to all people
asking me an answer, but I can't answer to everybody immediately, even with
writing many responses everyday. If you were waiting something from me, please
write again because I have no more your message (but allow me at least 10 days
because I'm now more than busy).

About quiz 26, you will have to resent me your answer, if right, if you want to
be in the draws for the prizes. The mystery bird was a Bay-breasted Warbler (a
first-spring female). It would be possible to know more about that
identification by reading the coming issue of QuébecOiseaux. Please forward me
your original answer in a way allowing me to check its first invoice date. I'm
asking only for the answers with the right identification because, for now, I'm
receiving e-mails in a very slow and unefficient way. Please, resent me your
right answer BEFORE Wednesday. If you don't receive my message enough early to
resent your message in time, resent it anyway. If it happens, to be fair, I will
 include your name in the next draws. That's the best I can do.

I apologize for that...

     MICHEL BERTRAND
     Sainte-Julie, Qc
     bertrmi(AT)colba.net

«Sans technique, un don n'est rien qu'une sale manie» !!!
-- Georges Brassens

NOCC_______________________________
 ColbaNet - http://www.colba.net


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Subject: Re: RFH: a palish HERG from Germany
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
Date: 14 Apr 2003 1:58pm

Martin Reid wrote:> Christoph Bock as asked me to host and request input on
this gull:
> http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp34.html
> Certain features indicate a hybrid origin (bill shape/pattern, eye
> crescents, tertial pattern, etc.), but could these all be a combination of
> variations in a pure 2B/2W nominate HERG?<
.
The bird in question is a 2nd winter Herring Gull of the race argenteus
(British Isles, The Netherlands, Germany).
Norman


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Subject: Re: RFH: a palish HERG from Germany
From: Harry Lehto <hlehto(AT)OJ287.ASTRO.UTU.FI>
Date: 14 Apr 2003 10:58pm

On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Norman D.van Swelm wrote:

> Martin Reid wrote:> Christoph Bock as asked me to host and request input on
> this gull:
> > http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp34.html
> > Certain features indicate a hybrid origin (bill shape/pattern, eye
> > crescents, tertial pattern, etc.), but could these all be a combination of
> > variations in a pure 2B/2W nominate HERG?<
> .
> The bird in question is a 2nd winter Herring Gull of the race argenteus
> (British Isles, The Netherlands, Germany).
> Norman

Could also fit an argentatus with no problem at all. I would not even call
this a "pale Herring gull". The 2nd winter (= 3rd calendar year) birds can
be quite a bit paler than the 2nd calendar year birds at this point.

Harry
hlehto(AT)utu.fi


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Subject: Re: palish HERG from Germany
From: Tim Vaughan <timvaughan(AT)TALK21.COM>
Date: 15 Apr 2003 4:51am

 (bill shape/pattern, eye
> > crescents, tertial pattern, etc.), but could these all be a
combination of
> > variations in a pure 2B/2W nominate HERG?<
Dear all,
I agree with Henry and Norman that this is a fairly normal 2ndW (3rd calendar
year) Herring Gull. During extensive scrutiny of Herring Gulls at Seaforth, UK
this year (and previous years) many Spring 2ndW L.a.argenteus look like this.
Bill pattern / shape, eye crescents and tertial pattern would not lead me to
consider anything special - more that this is within the wide variation of
plumage often seen.
Best wishes,
Tim Vaughan

--------------------
talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at
http://www.talk21.com


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Subject: Anna's Hummingbird field mark?
From: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 16 Apr 2003 11:11am

HI ALL:
 Someone just told me of a field mark for Anna's Hummingbird that I never
heard of before and was wondering if anyone else has heard of it. There's
supposed to be a white tuft of feather on the scapulars on Anna's
Hummingbirds. Has anyone heard of this field mark before?

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"


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Subject: RFH: an unusual Bonaparte's Gull from France
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 17 Apr 2003 4:51am

Dear all,
I've been asked to seek input on the following gull from southern France:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp35.html
I see lots of BOGUs here in Fort Worth, but not the huge numbers seen
further north in the Americas.  I don't recall ever seeing a BOGU with a
bill like this - has anyone else seen such a bird?  Looking at the plumage,
I struggle to find anything unusual for BOGU - perhaps the only thing that
catches my eye is the pattern of P7/P8:- the extent of black/white in the
outer Ps varies greatly on first-winter BOGU, from almost all-white to
virtually all-black, but the black normally starts at the base (by the
coverts) on each feather - on this bird the inner Ps of the outer group
that have obvious black on them seem to have whitish bases - unusual (I
don't recall seeing this, but it may occur) in BOGU, I feel.
It is tempting (to me, anyway) to ponder a hybrid origin for such a bird
(or maybe other explanations for the appearance of the bill?), but I think
this would only be useful if the consensus is that a vagrant BOGU should
not have a bill like this.
Regards,
Martin

Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com


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Subject: Re: RFH: an unusual Bonaparte's Gull from France
From: Julian Hough <Jrhough1(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 17 Apr 2003 6:27am

I agree with Martin's views.Structurally it's bang-on for Boney's, even plumage
wise it wouldn't raise suspicions. As for the bill, it seems a little long and
the pale base is too extensive. The pattern of black on the outer primaries I
cannot comment on, but I will take a look at some boney's this weekend.
As for bill colour maybe it's just an oddball! At first glance, nothing seems to
 point toward a hybrid..

best,

Julian Hough,
CT, USA


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Subject: glaucous-winged vs Western Gulls
From: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 19 Apr 2003 2:40pm

HI ALL:
 I was wondering why most people consider Glaucous-winged gulls and
western gulls separate species while most people lump thayer's with
iceland gull?

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"