ID-FRONTIERS for May 11-17, 2003

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Re: Origin of Red-legged Honeycreeper   =?iso-8859-1?q?Alex=   Sun, 11 May 2003   10:11am   FL Honeycreepers   Jack Dozier    Mon, 12 May 2003   12:23am   Filoplumes in NA passerines   Wil Hershberger    Mon, 12 May 2003   7:45pm   Re: Filoplumes in NA passerines   Les Chibana    Tue, 13 May 2003   1:44am   Re: FL Honeycreepers   Kevin J. McGowan   Tue, 13 May 2003   11:04am   Caspian Plover in Texas???   Will Russell    Sat, 17 May 2003   7:21am   Re: Caspian Plover in Texas???   Chris Corben    Sat, 17 May 2003   8:50am   Re: Caspian Plover in Texas???   Luke Cole    Sat, 17 May 2003   9:57am   Re: Caspian Plover in Texas???   Peter Adriaens    Sat, 17 May 2003   10:05am   Texas Plover   MARTIN SCOTT    Sat, 17 May 2003   10:09am   Re: Caspian Plover in Texas???   Angus Wilson    Sat, 17 May 2003   10:08am   Texas Plover   Andrew Birch    Sat, 17 May 2003   10:08am   Re: Caspian Plover in Texas???   Alvaro Jaramillo    Sat, 17 May 2003   10:28am   Re: Texas Plover   Mike Patterson    Sat, 17 May 2003   10:37am   Re: FL Honeycreepers   Charlie Ewell    Sat, 17 May 2003   11:04am   Re: Caspian Plover in Texas???   Martin Reid    Sat, 17 May 2003   4:55pm

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Subject: Re: Origin of Red-legged Honeycreeper
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Alex=20Lees?= <lincslister(AT)YAHOO.CO.UK>
Date: 11 May 2003 10:11am

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Hi I seem to remember reading in a back issue of Cotinga that the honeycreepers
on Cuba are the result of an old introduction. What is the ABA view on vagrants
from naturalised populations, evidently the BOU will have to make a decsion in a
 similar vein on Scared Ibis on one of these days..... Iīm away in the field for
 the next month or so, so apologies if I donīt get back to anyone on this. Alex
LeesCristalino LodgeMato GrossoBrazil

Kenn Kaufman <kennk(AT)IX.NETCOM.COM> wrote:Getting to Florida is alittle more of a
 leap, but I see no reason why the Florida birds shouldn't be genuine wild
vagrants from the migratory Mexican population or from Cuba.

Kenn Kaufman
Tucson, AZ

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience

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Subject: FL Honeycreepers
From: Jack Dozier <jdozier(AT)NETTALLY.COM>
Date: 12 May 2003 12:23am

At 06:11 PM 5/11/03 +0100, you wrote:
Hi

I seem to remember reading in a back issue of Cotinga that the
honeycreepers on Cuba are the result of an old introduction. What is the
ABA view on vagrants from naturalised populations, evidently the BOU will
have to make a decsion in a similar vein on Scared Ibis on one of these
days.....

Iīm away in the field for the next month or so, so apologies if I donīt get
back to anyone on this.

Alex Lees
Cristalino Lodge
Mato Grosso
Brazil

Kenn Kaufman <kennk(AT)IX.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
Getting to Florida is a little more of a leap, but I see no reason why the
Florida birds shouldn't be genuine wild vagrants from the migratory Mexican
population or from Cuba.

Kenn Kaufman
Tucson, AZ

It has been reported that there is a bird seller in Homestead, FL that
recently sold honeycreepers that were in "good" condition.  On the surface
this seems to raise a red flag if this turns out to be a fact..  Within
less than two months two birds have been reported in the wild.  Also
winds/storms have been favorable for the presentation of Yucatan waifs
(i.e.-White-fronted Dove, simultaneous occurrence with the May Dry Tortugas
bird).  Does the couple of hundred mile distance from Homestead discount
the probability of an escape?  Both birds were males, BTW.  The first was
on a key E of Miami.  This new question has to be considered.  A population
explosion could be occurring, or is it just the luck of the winds?  A tough
situation I would say.  For myself, I would like them to be considered
"wild" as I saw the one on the Dry Tortugas, but really, I feel this
"seller" issue has to be dealt with.

Jack Dozier
Alligator Pt., FL
jdozier(AT)nettally.com


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Subject: Filoplumes in NA passerines
From: Wil Hershberger <WHershberg(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 12 May 2003 7:45pm

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I have noticed that several species of North American passerines exhibit what
appear to be two fine filoplumes that extend from the base of the nape.  Here
is a link to some photos that show this structure.  You will need to look
carefully to see them.
I am planning on looking very carefully for these structures at the MAPS
banding station this season.  Hopefully, I will be able to secure better
photos.
Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
<A
HREF="http://www.natureimagesandsounds.com/filoplumes.html">http://www.natureimagesandsounds.com/filoplumes.html</A>
Wil Hershberger
Hedgesville, WV

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Subject: Re: Filoplumes in NA passerines
From: Les Chibana <les(AT)BIRDNUTZ.COM>
Date: 13 May 2003 1:44am

Whew, they are hard to see! Perhaps you might use a dark card
behind the bird to boost contrast.

I've seen this feature on juvenile Bushtits. Very curious feathers.

Les Chibana, Palo Alto CA

On Monday, May 12, 2003, at 07:45 PM, Wil Hershberger wrote:

> I have noticed that several species of North American passerines
> exhibit what appear to be two fine filoplumes that extend from the
> base of the nape.  Here is a link to some photos that show this
> structure.  You will need to look carefully to see them.
> I am planning on looking very carefully for these structures at the
> MAPS banding station this season.  Hopefully, I will be able to secure
> better photos.
> Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
> http://www.natureimagesandsounds.com/filoplumes.html
> Wil Hershberger
> Hedgesville, WV
>


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Subject: Re: FL Honeycreepers
From: "Kevin J. McGowan" <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 13 May 2003 11:04am

>At 06:11 PM 5/11/03 +0100, Alex Lees wrote:
>I seem to remember reading in a back issue of Cotinga that the
>honeycreepers on Cuba are the result of an old introduction.

Not sure why the Cuba birds are considered introduced, but if they were,
the populations were established before 1850.

At 03:22 AM 5/12/2003 -0400, Jack Dozier wrote:

>It has been reported that there is a bird seller in Homestead, FL that
>recently sold honeycreepers that were in "good" condition.

When I was a kid in the early 1970s I had a pet male Red-legged
Honeycreeper.  The only possibly related piece of information I can
contribute is that the one I had tried to escape at every possible
opportunity.  The estrildid finches I had in the same cage never made a
move, but the honeycreeper dashed for any crack in the door whenever one
appeared.  Chasing it around my bedroom was pretty much an every-other-day
occurrence.

Kevin

*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan, Ph.D.
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/


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Subject: Caspian Plover in Texas???
From: Will Russell <willrussell(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 17 May 2003 7:21am

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Guy McCaskie asked if I would post the following note.

"Kenneth Z. Kurland of El Centro, California, photographed a small long
legged plover on the beach at Galveston, Texas, on 28 April 2003.  No other
birds were present for direct size comparison, but Ken judged the bird to be
larger than a Semipalmated Plover and smaller than a Killdeer.  Ken
tentatively identified the bird as a Lesser Sand Plover <Charadrius
mongolus>.  However, upon studying the slides, it appears that both Lesser
Sand Plover and Greater Sand Plover <C. leschenaultii> can be eliminated,
and that the bird might be a Caspian Plover <C. asiaticus>.  None of these
plovers are recorded in Texas, there is only one record for Greater Sand
Plover in North America, and Caspian Plover is unrecorded in North America.
I am therefore soliciting comments on the identification of this plover.
Nine images can be viewed at www.wingsbirds.com/plover.html .   Additional
images and/or slides can be provided.  Responses can be posted on BIRDWG01
or sent to me at guymcc(AT)pacbell.net

Guy McCaskie
954 Grove Avenue
Imperial Beach, CA  91932
TEL  619-423-7524"

Will Russell
willrussell(AT)comcast.net

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Subject: Re: Caspian Plover in Texas???
From: Chris Corben <corben(AT)hoarybat.com>
Date: 17 May 2003 8:50am

Why isn't it an American Golden Plover? Look at all the barring on the tail.

Chris.

Chris Corben
corben(AT)hoarybat.com
www.hoarybat.com


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Subject: Re: Caspian Plover in Texas???
From: Luke Cole <luke(AT)IGC.ORG>
Date: 17 May 2003 9:57am

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An interesting bird, to say the least!  The images on the web appear very very
dark on my monitor, so I am sure I am missing some of the finer detail.  Is that
 others' experience too, or just my monitor?

Things I like for Caspian Plover:
Big supercilium behind the eye.  Broad unbroken breast band.  Small amount of
white in the upperwings.  Legs extending beyond tail in flight.

Things I dont like for Caspian Plover:
There doesnt seem to be *any* white at the end of the tail at all visible on my
monitor, while Caspian should have a white terminal fringe (I cant tell where
the beach begins and the tail ends, though, this could be computer-related); the
 tail appears more reminiscent of a golden-plover.  I would expect the forehead
to be whiter.  I would also expect a more dainty, not so bulky, appearance.

I look forward to the thoughts of greater minds than mine...

Luke Cole
San Francisco

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Subject: Re: Caspian Plover in Texas???
From: Peter Adriaens <peter.adriaens(AT)DUTCHBIRDING.NL>
Date: 17 May 2003 10:05am

Chris is right. This is an American Golden Plover, since Caspian Plover has
no barring on the tail, a white terminal tailband, an obviously white
forehead, a thinner bill (especially at the tip), and a white rather than
greyish wingbar.
Best regards,
Peter Adriaens


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Subject: Texas Plover
From: MARTIN SCOTT <scillybirder(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 17 May 2003 10:09am

I would suggest that it is an American Golden Plover- a worn first year
bird. A very similar individual turned up as a vagrant on the Isles of
Scilly, England and caused alot of confusion along similar lines for some
birders.

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Subject: Re: Caspian Plover in Texas???
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 17 May 2003 10:08am

Re: Comments on a plover photographed in Texas in April 2003 by Kenneth Z.
Kurland.

http://www.wingsbirds.com/plover.html

What a fascinating bird! To get the debate going, here are my own first
impressions and quickly formulated thoughts. I look forward to counter
arguments, especially from those with field experience of Caspian Plover, which
I regrettably do not have yet.

Looking at the photos, the shape and proportions remind me of a _Pluvialis_-
type plover (e.g. American Golden-Plover), however, the patterning of the
plumage is clearly atypical for any of the four species. Many features (tail
pattern etc) are wrong for either of the Sand Plovers and these two don't need
to be discussed further. The most 'Caspian Plover-like' features seem to be the
diffuse, but broad and solid, breast band, the white throat and the strong
whitish supercillium. It is very useful to have a set of photos to examine (not
just one or two) and to have them showing the bird both landed and in flight.

I hate to be a party pooper but several features seem inconsistent with Caspian
Plover, or for that matter, the closely-related Oriental Plover. The Texas bird
does not look as rangy or long-legged as I would have expected and there are
some troubling plumage and structural details as well. At this point, I lean
toward an aberrantly plumaged American Golden-Plover.

-- The bill seems too short and thick (stubby) for Caspian Plover.

-- The wing bar does not seem quite right. It extends (weakly) onto the outer
primaries and includes only a few secondaries. I recall that in Caspian the
bases of the inner primaries are white and there is a sharp transition at the
outer five or so primaries where the white is restricted to a thin line along
the quill. The result is a squarish wedge or block on the inner primaries. Some
of the photos suggest this, but in other the white appears more like an
extensive bar.

-- The amount of pale feathering on the front of the head, directly above the
bill, seems too limited for any of the adult plumages.

-- Tail feather appear to be finely barred. Surely these should be solid brown?

-- The bird does not look as long-legged as I would expect. In other words
there is not that much tibia exposed below body feathering. Admittedly this
could be because the body feathering is fluffed out in all the shots.

-- Legs look dark blue-gray rather than pale gray-green but I'm willing to
concede this might be an artifact of the film/scanning/monitor.

Here are a couple of useful reference photos:

Spring female
http://www.galleryofbirds.com/caspianplover/caspianplover.html

basic adult?
http://www.wildlife.shetland.co.uk/pics/casp.jpg

Cheers,
Angus Wilson
New York City
http://www.oceanwanderers.com

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Subject: Texas Plover
From: Andrew Birch <andyrbirch(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 17 May 2003 10:08am

It is an interesting bird but I agree with Chris that
it's an odd American Golden Plover. It's not
convincing for Caspian.

Heavily barred tail and even some spangling/barring in
some of the wing coverts, short stubby thick bill,
dark legs, broad flaring eyestripe looks more like
American Golden.

Compare to:

http://www.birdfoto.fsnet.co.uk/caspianplover/caspianplover.html

Best, Andy Birch


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Subject: Re: Caspian Plover in Texas???
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 17 May 2003 10:28am

At 10:50 AM 5/17/2003 -0500, Chris Corben wrote:
>Why isn't it an American Golden Plover? Look at all the barring on the tail.
>
>Chris.
>
>Chris Corben

I agree with Chris. The photos looked like a rather dull Golden Plover to
me, and I had not keyed in to the barring on the tail which should clinch
it as Pluvialis. Down in Argentina in the boreal winter its common to see
real dull looking American Golden Plovers like this. The first year birds
probably mostly stay down there, so we get little experience with them up
in the north; unlike with Black-bellied Plover.

regards

Alvaro

Alvaro Jaramillo
Biologist
San Francisco Bay Bird Observatory
P.O. Box 247
Alviso, CA 95002
(408)-946-6548
http://www.sfbbo.org/
chucao(AT)attbi.com


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Subject: Re: Texas Plover
From: Mike Patterson <celata(AT)PACIFIER.COM>
Date: 17 May 2003 10:37am

I would think the following would be sufficient to eliminate
Caspian Plover....

                         length (mm)
Semipalmated Plover        170-190
Caspian Plover             180-200
Killdeer                   230-260
American Golden Plover     240-280

--
Mike Patterson
Astoria, OR
celata(AT)pacifier.com


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Subject: Re: FL Honeycreepers
From: Charlie Ewell <Anhinga42(AT)SWFLA.RR.COM>
Date: 17 May 2003 11:04am

All,

I recently checked with the owner of Butterfly World in Coconut Creek (north of
Ft
Lauderdale) to see if any of their Red-legged Honeycreepers had escaped.  He
told me none had, and added they have had them for years, breed them
occasionally, and he knows of many importers and breeders here in Florida.
While this obviously does not mean the Florida birds were escapes, it does
indicate they are certainly present in captivity here in FL.

Regards,

Charlie

Charlie Ewell
Arlyne Salcedo
Cape Coral, FL
Anhinga42(AT)swfla.rr.com
SalcedoDVM(AT)swfla.rr.com


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Subject: Re: Caspian Plover in Texas???
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 17 May 2003 4:55pm

Dear All,
I got the initial email just before going to work, and took a quick peek at
the pics. Like Chris and others, my first reaction was "Goldie", but I've
only just been able to look at the pics more carefully and also see the
subsequent messages on this matter.
It does look like a Lesser Golden Plover, but I feel that calling it an
AMERICAN Golden Plover is a bit hasty at this point - perhaps we should at
least visit the possibility of it being a PACIFIC golden plover?
Obviously, the plumage does not include much/any summer feathers, and the
worn older-generations of feathers look dark and plain - but some
first-summer PAGPs retain most of their "winter" plumage,so this element is
not decisive, ID-wise, I feel.
Consider the structure of the bird:  the legs are very long, with the
exposed tibia (below the tibial feathering, not the belly - only one pic
shows this) looking to be longer than the bill length, and a large part of
each foot is visible beyond the tail in flight - too much for AMGP, I
wonder? The bird looks small-headed and plump; the wings are longish, but
the all-important primary projection beyond the tertials is hard to assess
from these scans - but hints (to me) that the tertials may reach 3/4 of the
way to the tail.  Note that long-winged PAGPs are a significant proportion
in the birds that breed in the trans-Yakutia region of east-central
Siberia.  The Bill is hard to assess but seems to be fairly chunky (this is
a variable feature on both forms, with only extremes being obvious.)  I
wonder if the legs are really grayish?  Medium blue-gray is the normal leg
color for PAGP (but they can also be olive-gray, and occasionally
blackish), but i've yet to see a AMGP with anything but dark gray-black
legs (very young birds can have slightly paler legs.)
I am not saying it is a PAGP - but i do feel that this needs to be
considered - especially as that foot projection in flight seems way beyond
the slight toe extension that is the max I've seen on AMGP.
Cheers,
Martin

Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com