ID-FRONTIERS for May 18-24, 2003

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   starling vs. starling   Ian Paulsen    Thu, 22 May 2003   9:51am   Re: starling vs. starling   Tony Leukering    Thu, 22 May 2003   10:26am   American starlings   Ian Paulsen    Thu, 22 May 2003   11:00am   Re: American starlings   Angus Wilson    Thu, 22 May 2003   11:41am   Re: American starlings   David Shilman    Sat, 24 May 2003   12:50pm

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Subject: starling vs. starling
From: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 22 May 2003 9:51am

HI ALL:
 I was looking through the Collins/Princeton Birds of Europe guide and on
page 340 the starling illustration shows the female with a yellowish-white
lower mandible base. The National Geographic guide (for North America)
says this area is pink in females. Pyle's Identification guide to North
American Birds (page 422) says: "base of the lower mandible pinkish in
Jan-Jun (sometimes in Jul-Dec, as well)." So who is right? Is there a
different between European starlings and American starlings? I wouldn't
think there would be a difference since American starlings originated from
Europe.
sincerely

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"


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Subject: Re: starling vs. starling
From: Tony Leukering <GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 22 May 2003 10:26am

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Hi all:

From handling a largish number of Eur. Starlings in my >20 years as a bander,
I can tell you that female EUSTs have pink mandible (sensu stricto) bases and
males have blue ones.  It is very obvious - even on birds in the field.

Sincerely,

Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO

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Subject: American starlings
From: Ian Paulsen <ipaulsen(AT)KRL.ORG>
Date: 22 May 2003 11:00am

HI:
 Has anyone seen this on American starlings (especially in the field):
   But I do know there is a much easier way to determine
the sex of starlings. It works in winter as well as in summer, and
first-year birds start to show this character from september-october
onwards. Females have a white eye-ring (crescent), males don't ! This
works
for European Starlings, but maybe you can check American birds as well....

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
ipaulsen(AT)krl.org
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way"


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Subject: Re: American starlings
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)med.nyu.edu>
Date: 22 May 2003 11:41am

Hi Everyone,

I am unaware of the eye-ring field mark that Ian mentions and was under the
impression that sexing of European Starlings in the field could be difficult.
The 'Starling Talk' web site has an illustrated page on sexing starlings. In
addition to differences in measurements, they indicate that the color pattern
of color within the iris is a useful feature. I don't know how well this
works in free flying birds! I have great trouble photographing European
Starlings which are surprisingly shy and hyperactive for a bird that lives in
such close proximity to humans.

http://starlingtalk.com/gender.htm

Examples of the differences in beak color and hackle feathers can be found
here:

http://www.purplemartins.com/OutsideResources/sexing-starlings.htm
http://pw.osc.edu/~jill/hackles.html

Regarding 'American starlings':  Is there any evidence that European
Starlings in North America differ from other original stock? We have to be
careful with generalizations: I think there are at least six subspecies in
Europe but don't know for sure which was used in the initial introduction
into the US. Obviously 'American starlings' have gone through many
generations of expansion in order to cover the entire continent as quickly as
they have. I presume there has not been much gene flow from Europe since the
original releases, so might we not expect some founder effects or selection
in response to environmental differences?

Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City


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Subject: Re: American starlings
From: David Shilman <davidshilman(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 24 May 2003 12:50pm

>I have great trouble photographing European Starlings which are
>surprisingly shy and hyperactive for a bird that lives in such close
>proximity to humans.

Amazing, isn't it?  You'd think they'd be much tamer.  I've requested that
my friend, who is an amateur photographer, try to get a photo of a "singing"
EUST in natural conditions (no telephone poles, wires etc.) and it's a big
challenge.

Thanks for the sexing tips...I haven't looked for that before.

David

From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)MED.NYU.EDU>
Reply-To: wilsoa02(AT)med.nyu.edu
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] American starlings
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:40:58 -0400

Hi Everyone,

I am unaware of the eye-ring field mark that Ian mentions and was under the
impression that sexing of European Starlings in the field could be
difficult.
The 'Starling Talk' web site has an illustrated page on sexing starlings. In
addition to differences in measurements, they indicate that the color
pattern
of color within the iris is a useful feature. I don't know how well this
works in free flying birds! I have great trouble photographing European
Starlings which are surprisingly shy and hyperactive for a bird that lives
in
such close proximity to humans.

http://starlingtalk.com/gender.htm

Examples of the differences in beak color and hackle feathers can be found
here:

http://www.purplemartins.com/OutsideResources/sexing-starlings.htm
http://pw.osc.edu/~jill/hackles.html

Regarding 'American starlings':  Is there any evidence that European
Starlings in North America differ from other original stock? We have to be
careful with generalizations: I think there are at least six subspecies in
Europe but don't know for sure which was used in the initial introduction
into the US. Obviously 'American starlings' have gone through many
generations of expansion in order to cover the entire continent as quickly
as
they have. I presume there has not been much gene flow from Europe since the
original releases, so might we not expect some founder effects or selection
in response to environmental differences?

Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City

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