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ID-FRONTIERS for May 25-31, 2003
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Naumann's Dusky Thrush in Alaska | Gavin Bieber | Mon, 26 May 2003 | 9:53am |
| RFI: Indigo X Lazuli Bunting photos | Allen Chartier | Tue, 27 May 2003 | 11:38am |
| Re: RFI: Indigo X Lazuli Bunting photos | Tony Leukering | Tue, 27 May 2003 | 5:16pm |
| Re: RFI: Indigo X Lazuli Bunting photos | Don Roberson | Tue, 27 May 2003 | 8:47pm |
| Re: RFI: Indigo X Lazuli Bunting photos | Allen Chartier | Thu, 29 May 2003 | 7:03am |
| Philadelphia Vireo/Tennessee Warbler ID | Tim Janzen | Thu, 29 May 2003 | 8:31am |
| Garganey? | Joseph Morlan | Thu, 29 May 2003 | 12:54pm |
| Re: Garganey? | Bruce Deuel | Thu, 29 May 2003 | 7:31pm |
| Re: Philadelphia Vireo/Tennessee Warbler ID | Steven Mlodinow | Fri, 30 May 2003 | 8:50am |
| Boat-tailed Grackle Eye Color - NE Florida | Noel Wamer | Fri, 30 May 2003 | 9:56am |
| Re: Garganey? | Dan Singer | Fri, 30 May 2003 | 10:38am |
| Re: Garganey? | Colin Bradshaw | Fri, 30 May 2003 | 11:38am |
| R: Garganey? | Menotti Passarella | Fri, 30 May 2003 | 11:54am |
| Re: Garganey? | Dan Singer | Fri, 30 May 2003 | 12:05pm |
| Re: Garganey? | Keith Arnold | Fri, 30 May 2003 | 12:10pm |
| Garganey | David Vander Pluym | Fri, 30 May 2003 | 12:22pm |
| Mystery Godwit | Wink Gross | Fri, 30 May 2003 | 5:02pm |
| Re: Mystery Godwit | Angus Wilson | Fri, 30 May 2003 | 5:30pm |
| Re: Garganey? | Dick Newell | Sat, 31 May 2003 | 12:21am |
| Re: Garganey | Millington/BIS | Sat, 31 May 2003 | 1:54am |
| Re: Mystery Godwit | Floyd Hayes | Sat, 31 May 2003 | 5:14am |
| Teal | David Vander Pluym | Sat, 31 May 2003 | 6:39am |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Naumann's Dusky Thrush in Alaska
From: Gavin Bieber <kingbird77(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 26 May 2003 9:53am
Hello Birders,
As many of you may have already discovered with the posting of our latest
St. Paul Island AK RBA we encountered a "Naumann's" Thrush yesterday at the
Northeast tip of the island. As far as we can tell this represents only the
second (the first being on Adak on 22 October 1982) record for North America
of this subspecies. I want to solicit information on the breeding and
wintering range of this southerly race of Dusky Thrush as well as any
pertinent information on the relative rate of integration, current
taxonomical position and pattern of vagrancy. We managed decent photographs
of the eunomus Dusky that we had the previous day (May 24) but were unable
to achieve any useful shots of the Naumann's. We will be submitting details
to the Alaska records committee but here are a few of the pertinent ID
features:
Slightly smaller and longer tailed (in flight) than the Eyebrowed Thrush
that is was briefly adjacent to.
Prominent pale gray supercilium, starting at the bill and extending well
past the eye.
A wide ochre malar and side of neck framing darker auriculars and a thin
buff/cream eyering.
Whitish throat and lower belly.
Strong red-ochre flanks with white chevrons, strong ochre upper breast with
some diffuse brown spotting giving a faint double breast band.
A warm brown mantle and wings with subtle buff wingbars on lesser and medial
coverts.
Tail color concolorus with mantle and wings.
Rump and uppertail coverts a rich orange-brown which gave a definite
contrast to the wings and mantle.
Dark, stout bill slightly pale at the base.
By ochre we mean a colour that is a rich orange/red.
Any thoughts on this bird would be greatly appreciated.
Gavin Bieber
for Derek Lovitch, Tom Plath and Marfa Rukovishnikoff of St. Paul Island
Tours
St. Paul Island, AK
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: RFI: Indigo X Lazuli Bunting photos
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia1(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 27 May 2003 11:38am
Birders,
I have been searching the internet for photos of hybrid Indigo X Lazuli
Buntings, without success. I have found text references to such records on
various pages, including some references to photos, but the photos
themselves seem not to be posted. Most of the descriptions seem to indicate
that these hybrids look mostly like Indigo Buntings with white wing bars and
white bellies, but it seems likely that birds appearing more like Lazuli
Bunting should occur also (perhaps more rarely?). Does anyone know where
photos of individuals of this hybrid combination might be found?
Thanks!
Allen Chartier
amazilia1(AT)comcast.net
1442 West River Park Drive
Inkster, MI 48141
Website: http://www.amazilia.net
Michigan HummerNet: http://www.amazilia.net/MIHummerNet/index.htm
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: RFI: Indigo X Lazuli Bunting photos
From: Tony Leukering <GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 27 May 2003 5:16pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi all:
This hybird combo is relatively common in Colorado and ALL individuals that I
have seen have looked pretty similar: An overall blue color somewhat
intermediate to that of the parents', white wingbars, and a white belly. It's
actually quite an attractive beast! The meeting of blue and white on the belly
is
always (in my experience) ragged - no clean-cut lines here.
I have managed to get two poor (actually, very poor) pix of one bird, but
Passerina buntings are actually fairly difficult (again, in my experience) to
get
good photos of, as they're typically fairly skittish. However, one of my
banders (Brian Gibbons) caught one last spring at Lamar, CO, and he got lovely
in-hand pix. They're slides and I haven't digitized them and won't have time
to
do so for quite a while. However, if I get free to do that soon, I can send
them upon request.
Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: RFI: Indigo X Lazuli Bunting photos
From: Don Roberson <creagrus(AT)montereybay.com>
Date: 27 May 2003 8:47pm
Since Allen asked and I happened to have photos in my collection, I have
scanned and posted a page comparing an apparent Indigo X Lazuli Bunting
banded in coastal central California in June to spring male Indigo and
Lazuli Buntings. All these are in-hand shots but the apparent hybrid is
overexposed. Thus I have also posted the short description I took and
published in "Monterey Birds." They are at
http://montereybay.com/creagrus/Bunting-hybrid.html
This bird shows a lot of intermediate characters. I think I recall from
museum research some time ago that some percentage of male Indigo
Buntings (first-summer birds?) have white vents or white bellies, but
otherwise look like typical Indigos. Thus a bird with only a white belly
does not suggest hybridization or intergression. Is this correct?
Don Roberson
Pacific Grove CA
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: RFI: Indigo X Lazuli Bunting photos
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia1(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 29 May 2003 7:03am
Birders,
I would like to publicly thank everyone who has provided photos,
suggestions, comments, and website links on this topic.
Allen Chartier
amazilia1(AT)comcast.net
1442 West River Park Drive
Inkster, MI 48141
Website: http://www.amazilia.net
Michigan HummerNet: http://www.amazilia.net/MIHummerNet/index.htm
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Philadelphia Vireo/Tennessee Warbler ID
From: Tim Janzen <tjanzen(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 29 May 2003 8:31am
Dear All,
A bird was seen in southeastern Oregon at Malheur National Wildlife
Refuge
on the evening of May 27th that some have suggested is a Philadelphia Vireo
and others have suggested is a Tennessee Warbler. Video captures of the
bird are available at the following URLs:
http://www.geocities.com/sesuvium/malvireo2.html?1054190684820
http://www.geocities.com/sesuvium/malvireo.html?1054108006800
I would be interested in receiving responses from anyone having
extensive
field experience with both of these species as to the identification of this
bird. I would particularly be interested in knowing why you feel the bird
is one species or the other. Feel free to respond to me privately or to
post responses to this list serve.
Sincerely,
Tim Janzen
12367 SE Ridgecrest Rd.
Portland, OR 97236
E-mail: tjanzen(AT)attbi.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Garganey?
From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan(AT)CCSF.ORG>
Date: 29 May 2003 12:54pm
I would appreciate informed feedback on a controversial bird seen recently
in California. A photo is at:
http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/garg.htm
Thanks.
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
Fall Birding Classes start Sept 3 http://fog.ccsf.org/~jmorlan/
California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Garganey?
From: Bruce Deuel <bkrdeuel(AT)SNOWCREST.NET>
Date: 29 May 2003 7:31pm
Hi Joe and all,
I can't pretend to be an expert on Garganey, having seen only 2 in North
America, a spring male, and a fall female with much more prominent facial
markings than this bird. However, I am very confident this bird is NOT one
of the possible alternatives, that is Green-winged Teal. No green-wing, and
I have banded many and closely observed thousands, looking for other things,
has ever had such a large bill, either in length or breadth. I don't
understand the apparent reddish color at the base of the mandible, either,
because my references don't show it on either species, but that's probably
not material.
Cheers,
Bruce Deuel
Red Bluff, California
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Morlan" <jmorlan(AT)CCSF.ORG>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:15 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Garganey?
> I would appreciate informed feedback on a controversial bird seen recently
> in California. A photo is at:
>
> http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/garg.htm
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
> Fall Birding Classes start Sept 3 http://fog.ccsf.org/~jmorlan/
> California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/
>
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Philadelphia Vireo/Tennessee Warbler ID
From: Steven Mlodinow <SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 30 May 2003 8:50am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Greetings Tim
I believe this bird is a Tennessee Warbler.
1) The bird appears to have bright white undertail coverts. Should be
yellowish on Philly.
2) Phillys typically have an odd face pattern shared with Warbling Vireos.
This is caused by the the eyeline being thickest at the eye and then tapering
fore and aft (ending quickly fore in Warbling). TN WA has a more uniform
thickness of the eyeline, fitting these pictures.
3) Phillys often show a pale short line underneath the eyeline, whereas TN WA
usually show a pale crescent under the eye. The photos seem more consistent
with TN WA
4) A typical Philly has more yellow on chest and throat.
5) There appears to be bright green on wing coverts. This is consistent with
TN WA and, I believe, inconsistent with Philly Vireo.
6) The bill does look large for a TNWA, but I wonder how much of that is the
strongly head first orientation of the bird, making the anterior portions of
the bird look relatively large.
Cheers
Steven Mlodinow
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Boat-tailed Grackle Eye Color - NE Florida
From: Noel Wamer <nwamer(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 30 May 2003 9:56am
In his 1970s taxonomic study of Boat-tailed Grackles H. M. Stevenson found
an hiatus separating the ranges of light-eyed males (subspecies torreyi)
and dark-eyed birds (subspecies westoni). Light eyed birds were found
along the coast south to the St. Johns River, but there was an apparent gap
of about 25-30 miles between these locations and the northernmost dark-eyed
birds that were found in the St. Augustine area.
Since that time dark-eyed birds have filled the hiatus, probably the result
of residential development and a proliferation of stormwater treatment
ponds. Today I conducted a casual survey across the "contact" zone, and
found a complete turnover from all dark-eyed to all light-eyed males in a
distance of only seven miles. That's a really steep "cline"! If any
readers are aware of other similar situations in avian subspecies please
enlighten me. Thanks!
Later...
Noel Wamer
Jacksonville, FL, US
Mosaics by Noel & Terry - http://home.attbi.com/~terrywest/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Garganey?
From: Dan Singer <dsinger(AT)A-C.COM>
Date: 30 May 2003 10:38am
Hi all,
I don't have a lot experience with Garganey having seen maybe 25 birds
total, and none of those were juveniles (that I know of). I don't doubt they
show a lot more variation than the few I have seen displayed, nevertheless
this bird doesn't look like any of the female-type Garganeys I've observed
in Asia and here in California. My question is: why isn't this a Blue-winged
Teal? The one character that looks especially good for Garganey is the dark
legs, but my understanding is Blue-winged in their first year can show this.
Another character that I've always found to be consistent on female-type
Blue-winged is the broken whitish eye-ring. I've never seen this on
Garganey, though it would not surprise me if it occurs occasionally. Perhaps
the observers noted things in the field such as the upper wing pattern that
we can't see in the this photograph that clinched the identification?
I agree with Bruce this is not a Green-winged Teal and I think the cold,
overall grayish tone to the bird and well-marked face pattern eliminates
Cinnamon Teal.
---
Dan Singer
San Francisco, CA
dsinger(AT)a-c.com
> From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan(AT)CCSF.ORG>
> Reply-To: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan(AT)CCSF.ORG>
> Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 12:15:05 -0700
> To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] Garganey?
>
> I would appreciate informed feedback on a controversial bird seen recently
> in California. A photo is at:
>
> http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/garg.htm
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
> Fall Birding Classes start Sept 3 http://fog.ccsf.org/~jmorlan/
> California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Garganey?
From: Colin Bradshaw <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com>
Date: 30 May 2003 11:38am
I'm a little curious as to why this was controversial. On first impression
this seems a fairly normal looking Garganey to me [and I've seen thousands
and kept them on my garden pond for years]
The dark bar across the lower cheeks is very good for garaganey and I can't
see it being reproduced by BW Teal. The loral spot is prominent but I've
seen and have photos of garganey with spots as obvious as this. I don't
think this bird has a proper eye-ring. I feel its got a small pale crescent
below and above the eye in the cheek and supercilium area respectively
separated by a fairly broad dark area both anterior and posterior. This is
typical of Garganey. BWT, in my opinion, tends to have large pale crescents
separated only by quite narrow dark breaks.
The bill & head shape is very good for Garganey as is the body plumage. Of
course, now you're going to tell me it had bright blue forewings.
Joe, I can scan in some photos of garganey looking like this and send them
as attachments if you want. I don't know if ID-Frontiers is accepting my
postings yet. If it isn't could you forward this on my behalf
Cheers
Colin
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Joseph Morlan
Sent: 29 May 2003 20:15
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Garganey?
I would appreciate informed feedback on a controversial bird seen recently
in California. A photo is at:
http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/garg.htm
Thanks.
--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
Fall Birding Classes start Sept 3 http://fog.ccsf.org/~jmorlan/
California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: R: Garganey?
From: Menotti Passarella <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT>
Date: 30 May 2003 11:54am
Hi all
I'm sending a collection of photos from the web about the Garganey duck
(solo or with the drake);
I hope these help:
http://www.tsuru-bird.net/waterfowl2/garganey_f1.jpg
http://bornova.ege.edu.tr/~ekgt/bird_files/wildfowl/photos/ducks/cikrikcin.j
pg
http://www.natur-lexikon.com/Texte/HWG/001/00076/hwg00076.jpg
http://digilander.libero.it/emstival/uccelli/marzai.jpg
http://www.lincsbirdclub.co.uk/image_3/Gar_1.jpg
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/pictures/337/DSCN5409A.jpg
http://www.surfbirds.com/media/Photos/2001-11-04-garganey-ph.jpg
http://www.cpcayless.fsbusiness.co.uk/images/Garganey.jpg
http://www.rutlandwater.u-net.com/rw/Images/Garganey.JPG
Cheers
Menotti Passarella
Italy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/birdinggulls/
---Joseph Morlan wrote:
I would appreciate informed feedback on a controversial bird seen recently
in California. A photo is at:
http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/garg.htm
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Garganey?
From: Dan Singer <dsinger(AT)A-C.COM>
Date: 30 May 2003 12:05pm
I see Joe has posted another image of the Baker, CA teal on his web site
which, to me, hardly looks like the same bird. Of course I'm sure it is, but
I'm once again reminded how difficult it is (well, for me) to reach any
conclusions based on single photographs or limited data. In any event, the
second photo looks like a Green-wing Teal to me. It even appears to show a
horizontal buffy stripe at the rear, though that could be an artifact of the
photograph.
Menotti's set of photographs are interesting. None of the females show much,
if any, apparent eye rings (crescents). Colin, what do you think of the
second image on Joe's site? Can Garganey show that degree of paleness on the
bill?
Dan
---
Dan Singer
San Francisco, CA
dsinger(AT)a-c.com
> From: Colin Bradshaw <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)BTINTERNET.COM>
> Reply-To: drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:35:57 +0100
> To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Garganey?
>
> I'm a little curious as to why this was controversial. On first impression
> this seems a fairly normal looking Garganey to me [and I've seen thousands
> and kept them on my garden pond for years]
>
> The dark bar across the lower cheeks is very good for garaganey and I can't
> see it being reproduced by BW Teal. The loral spot is prominent but I've
> seen and have photos of garganey with spots as obvious as this. I don't
> think this bird has a proper eye-ring. I feel its got a small pale crescent
> below and above the eye in the cheek and supercilium area respectively
> separated by a fairly broad dark area both anterior and posterior. This is
> typical of Garganey. BWT, in my opinion, tends to have large pale crescents
> separated only by quite narrow dark breaks.
>
> The bill & head shape is very good for Garganey as is the body plumage. Of
> course, now you're going to tell me it had bright blue forewings.
>
> Joe, I can scan in some photos of garganey looking like this and send them
> as attachments if you want. I don't know if ID-Frontiers is accepting my
> postings yet. If it isn't could you forward this on my behalf
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Colin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
> [mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Joseph Morlan
> Sent: 29 May 2003 20:15
> To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] Garganey?
>
>
> I would appreciate informed feedback on a controversial bird seen recently
> in California. A photo is at:
>
> http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/garg.htm
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
> Fall Birding Classes start Sept 3 http://fog.ccsf.org/~jmorlan/
> California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 27/05/2003
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 27/05/2003
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Garganey?
From: Keith Arnold <kaarnold(AT)TAMU.EDU>
Date: 30 May 2003 12:10pm
For future reference, Laurie Binford once advised me to obtain every possible
photo of a "bird of interest". He stated [paraphrased]: "You never know when a
photo, even a lousy one, will show the diagnostic characters."
Keith Arnold
Academician, Texas Bird Records Committee
Department of Wildlife and Fisheries Sciences
Texas A&M University
College Station, TX
>>> Dan Singer <dsinger(AT)A-C.COM> 05/30/03 02:05PM >>>
I see Joe has posted another image of the Baker, CA teal on his web site
which, to me, hardly looks like the same bird. Of course I'm sure it is, but
I'm once again reminded how difficult it is (well, for me) to reach any
conclusions based on single photographs or limited data. In any event, the
second photo looks like a Green-wing Teal to me. It even appears to show a
horizontal buffy stripe at the rear, though that could be an artifact of the
photograph.
Menotti's set of photographs are interesting. None of the females show much,
if any, apparent eye rings (crescents). Colin, what do you think of the
second image on Joe's site? Can Garganey show that degree of paleness on the
bill?
Dan
---
Dan Singer
San Francisco, CA
dsinger(AT)a-c.com
> From: Colin Bradshaw <drcolin.bradshaw(AT)BTINTERNET.COM>
> Reply-To: drcolin.bradshaw(AT)btinternet.com
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:35:57 +0100
> To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Garganey?
>
> I'm a little curious as to why this was controversial. On first impression
> this seems a fairly normal looking Garganey to me [and I've seen thousands
> and kept them on my garden pond for years]
>
> The dark bar across the lower cheeks is very good for garaganey and I can't
> see it being reproduced by BW Teal. The loral spot is prominent but I've
> seen and have photos of garganey with spots as obvious as this. I don't
> think this bird has a proper eye-ring. I feel its got a small pale crescent
> below and above the eye in the cheek and supercilium area respectively
> separated by a fairly broad dark area both anterior and posterior. This is
> typical of Garganey. BWT, in my opinion, tends to have large pale crescents
> separated only by quite narrow dark breaks.
>
> The bill & head shape is very good for Garganey as is the body plumage. Of
> course, now you're going to tell me it had bright blue forewings.
>
> Joe, I can scan in some photos of garganey looking like this and send them
> as attachments if you want. I don't know if ID-Frontiers is accepting my
> postings yet. If it isn't could you forward this on my behalf
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Colin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
> [mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]On Behalf Of Joseph Morlan
> Sent: 29 May 2003 20:15
> To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] Garganey?
>
>
> I would appreciate informed feedback on a controversial bird seen recently
> in California. A photo is at:
>
> http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/garg.htm
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044 jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
> Fall Birding Classes start Sept 3 http://fog.ccsf.org/~jmorlan/
> California Bird Records Committee http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 27/05/2003
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.484 / Virus Database: 282 - Release Date: 27/05/2003
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Garganey
From: David Vander Pluym <SCRE(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 30 May 2003 12:22pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Having been one of the cofinders (along with Matt Brady) I probably=20
should have chimed in with my description when I first saw it posted, but wa=
s=20
busy at the time. Matt and I first found the bird at the Baker Sweage Ponds=
,=20
we both felt the bird was something different when we first saw it at a=20
distance with the amoung of white on the face and belly. Matt immedietly fe=
lt it was=20
most likely a Garganey and I thought it could be one. The bird was quite=20
wary and we accidentally flushed it twice before it settled on a pond and we=
kept=20
our distance heading back to the car and bring back a scope to view the bird=
.=20
With scope views the head pattern was quite striking and we both felt it wa=
s=20
a female Garganey (later we also wondered if it could be a young bird). I=20
tried to digiscoping and we both wrote up descriptions before inching closer=
to=20
try for better pictures (I have a series of them if anyone wants to see). I=
=20
have only seen one pair of Garganey's before in Asia though Matt has seen a=20
number. Here is my description of the bird.
First off the I saw the wings and they were gray with a dark speculum=
=20
and a bold white trailing edge, and a white bar. The face was very=20
distinctive and unlike any teal I had seen in North America. It had a dark=20=
cap with a=20
light supercilium. It did have somewhat of white eye arcs. A dark eye line=
=20
with a white oval at the base of the bill which connected to a white streak=20
below the eye. Grayish cheeck. A white chin the wasn't connect to the whit=
e oval=20
as there was a dark line going from the base of the bill as a line below the=
=20
white streak below the eye. The chest was like a Pectoral Sandpiper brown=20
streaked and cut off with a fully white belly. The tertials were dark edged=
in=20
white as were the lower scaps witht he upper scaps being edged in buff. The=
=20
undertail coverts were whitish with a lot of dark streaking. The tail was=20
browinish lacking the buffy streak of GWTE. Bill was gray and fairly large=20=
and=20
broad. Overall the teal appeared to be small and pale overall. =20
Other excellent birders who saw the bird thought it was a Green-winge=
d=20
Teal based off of small size, smaller than Green-winged Teals (when Matt and=
=20
I had it there were no other small ducks for comparasion), head shape not=20
squared enough, they feel that the tertials and scaps were edged in buff (bo=
th=20
Matt and I noted white edgings on the tertials and lower scaps and our pictu=
res=20
seem to show this also), the wings they felt had brown (I only noted all gra=
y),=20
the whitish undertail coverts (though they were streaked and contrasted with=
=20
the belly), and the orange into the bill (I only noted a gray bill). Matt h=
ad=20
this to say about the bill "the bird we saw had a really thick, broad bill,=20
different from any GW Teal I've seen.=A0 As for the color of the lower mandi=
ble,=20
in my notes I wrote that the bird had a "lighter" lower mandible, with a=20
"possible" spot of orange towards the base.=A0 In looking at the picture pos=
ted on=20
Joe's website, it appears that the whole lower mandible was orange, but I th=
ink=20
that's just a reflection.=A0 On the picture of the bird on the InlandCountyB=
irds=20
website (I believe this photo is the same as the other one on Joe Morlan's=20
website; my addition), it appears that the orangey patch is much larger,=20
covering parts of the upper mandible; this=20
could be due to other factors than the acctual color of the bill, too.=A0 I=20
don't know if this is an illusion, or if the bird actually had a partially o=
range=20
upper mandible."
Based off our photos and descriptions we both felt this bird was fine for=20
Garganey. =20
David Vander Pluym
UC Santa Cruz, California
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Subject: Mystery Godwit
From: Wink Gross <winkg(AT)HEVANET.COM>
Date: 30 May 2003 5:02pm
I have been, well, "tormented" is the right word, by a godwit we
observed two years ago at Nome, AK in June, 2001. Video frame captures
can be seen at
http://www.hevanet.com/winkg/birdphotos/mysterygodwit.htm
I would appreciate comments!
Thanks,
Wink Gross
Portland, OR
winkg(AT)hevanet.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Mystery Godwit
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)med.nyu.edu>
Date: 30 May 2003 5:30pm
Godwit Pics at http://www.hevanet.com/winkg/birdphotos/mysterygodwit.htm
I have to say I lean towards Hudsonian Godwit on this bird. The underwing
pattern seems much better for Hudsonian than either Bar-tailed or
Black-tailed, but I agree the white area (bases of primaries and
secondaries?) seems a bit more extensive than usual. In terms of size, a
female Hudsonian Godwit might well look as large or larger than Bar-tails
especially if the latter were males. The bird sounds too large for
Siberian Black-tailed Godwit [melanuroides]. I am not sure I understand
the comment about lack of white on the breast. Isn't this consistent with
alternate-plumaged Hudsonian or do you mean the lower neck?
In terms of hybrid possibilities, wouldn't a Bar-tail x Black-tail hybrid
show an largely white underwing, especially on the underwing coverts? More
to the point, has this hybrid combination ever been recorded before?
Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Garganey?
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
Date: 31 May 2003 12:21am
re: http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/garg.htm
Although looking a little odd at first, I originally believed this bird to
be a Garganey. After the 2nd picture was posted, I am not so sure,
especially the appearance of the white at the side of the tail
For those who are favouring an identification of Green-winged Teal, then
maybe they would be interested in this bird which I photographed at Welney,
UK in April 2002:
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=933
The bird has a number of similarities to Joseph Morlan's pictures, including
the weak supercilium, broken eye-ring, yellow in bill and the cheek-line.
The bird was paired to an ordinary drake Eurasian Teal. My guess is that it
is just an odd female Eurasian Teal, but as Green-winged Teal is known to
exhibit some Garganey-like traits ..... (afaik, female GWT has never been
successfully identified on our side of the pond)
Some very keen UK duck-buffs at the time, agreed with my opinion that it was
a teal of some sort.
Dick Newell, Cambridge, UK:
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Garganey
From: Millington/BIS <sales(AT)birdingworld.co.uk>
Date: 31 May 2003 1:54am
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi
Obviously the second picture has clarified the identification.
It is a Green-winged Teal, not a Garganey.
So why did the first picture fool some people?=20
It appears that the bill and legs were all-dark grey (but plainly not so =
in the second picture for the bill at least).=20
This can easily be accounted for by the bill and legs being covered in =
dark mud (washed off in picture two).
Tellingly, this also partly explains the dark 'cheek-line'.=20
When dabblers dabble in muddy water, a 'tide-mark' can get stained onto =
the face from the gape back to the rear cheek. When dabbling, head =
stretched forward, this is a straight (water-level) line, but when =
relaxed (head up), it alters the profile.=20
The fact that the 'tide-mark' also coincides with the variably dark line =
that some teal (including this one) show, just reinforces the feature.=20
Actually, now that this bird has been proved to be a Green-winged Teal, =
is very interesting to examine the head pattern. The head pattern on =
female Eurasian and Green-winged Teal is variable in both (sub)species, =
but that of Green-winged Teal has been described, in print, as being =
subtly different (on average).=20
The Baker bird is a good example of one that shows the cited characters. =
The obviously pale loral spot is large and well-defined (reminiscent of =
Blue-winged Teal), the supercilium and eye-crescents are rather =
well-defined, the eye-stripe is solid, and the pale cheek is crossed by =
a darker lower bar. All these features add up to a rather Garganey-like =
impression.
From an Old World viewpoint, if such an individual were to reach us, =
and if the greater covert bar was seen to be the appropriate colour - =
and assuming it was paired to a drake carolinensis - the identification =
of Europe's first female Green-winged Teal might almost be possible...
cheers
Richard
----- Original Message -----=20
From: David Vander Pluym=20
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU=20
Sent: 30 May 2003 20:21
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Garganey
Having been one of the cofinders (along with Matt Brady) I =
probably should have chimed in with my description when I first saw it =
posted, but was busy at the time. Matt and I first found the bird at =
the Baker Sweage Ponds, we both felt the bird was something different =
when we first saw it at a distance with the amoung of white on the face =
and belly. Matt immedietly felt it was most likely a Garganey and I =
thought it could be one. The bird was quite wary and we accidentally =
flushed it twice before it settled on a pond and we kept our distance =
heading back to the car and bring back a scope to view the bird. With =
scope views the head pattern was quite striking and we both felt it was =
a female Garganey (later we also wondered if it could be a young bird). =
I tried to digiscoping and we both wrote up descriptions before inching =
closer to try for better pictures (I have a series of them if anyone =
wants to see). I have only seen one pair of Garganey's before in Asia =
though Matt has seen a number. Here is my description of the bird.
First off the I saw the wings and they were gray with a dark =
speculum and a bold white trailing edge, and a white bar. The face was =
very distinctive and unlike any teal I had seen in North America. It =
had a dark cap with a light supercilium. It did have somewhat of white =
eye arcs. A dark eye line with a white oval at the base of the bill =
which connected to a white streak below the eye. Grayish cheeck. A =
white chin the wasn't connect to the white oval as there was a dark line =
going from the base of the bill as a line below the white streak below =
the eye. The chest was like a Pectoral Sandpiper brown streaked and cut =
off with a fully white belly. The tertials were dark edged in white as =
were the lower scaps witht he upper scaps being edged in buff. The =
undertail coverts were whitish with a lot of dark streaking. The tail =
was browinish lacking the buffy streak of GWTE. Bill was gray and =
fairly large and broad. Overall the teal appeared to be small and pale =
overall. =20
Other excellent birders who saw the bird thought it was a =
Green-winged Teal based off of small size, smaller than Green-winged =
Teals (when Matt and I had it there were no other small ducks for =
comparasion), head shape not squared enough, they feel that the tertials =
and scaps were edged in buff (both Matt and I noted white edgings on the =
tertials and lower scaps and our pictures seem to show this also), the =
wings they felt had brown (I only noted all gray), the whitish undertail =
coverts (though they were streaked and contrasted with the belly), and =
the orange into the bill (I only noted a gray bill). Matt had this to =
say about the bill "the bird we saw had a really thick, broad bill, =
different from any GW Teal I've seen. As for the color of the lower =
mandible, in my notes I wrote that the bird had a "lighter" lower =
mandible, with a "possible" spot of orange towards the base. In looking =
at the picture posted on Joe's website, it appears that the whole lower =
mandible was orange, but I think that's just a reflection. On the =
picture of the bird on the InlandCountyBirds website (I believe this =
photo is the same as the other one on Joe Morlan's website; my =
addition), it appears that the orangey patch is much larger, covering =
parts of the upper mandible; this=20
could be due to other factors than the acctual color of the bill, too. =
I don't know if this is an illusion, or if the bird actually had a =
partially orange upper mandible."
Based off our photos and descriptions we both felt this bird was fine =
for Garganey. =20
David Vander Pluym
UC Santa Cruz, California
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Subject: Re: Mystery Godwit
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 31 May 2003 5:14am
I suggest it's a Hudsonian Godwit molting its wing
coverts, thus revealing the whitish primary/secondary
shafts. A Black-tailed Godwit in Trinidad appeared to
have more white than normal for the same reason
(http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/ttblack-tailedgodwit).
-Floyd
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
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Subject: Teal
From: David Vander Pluym <SCRE(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 31 May 2003 6:39am
I'm not as convinced as others that the two teal are of the same bird. There
was a huge amount of turnover there at the sweage ponds and I know of no birds
being seen more then 2 days in a row there the weekend we were . I took the
first picture on Friday the second picture was taken sunday. I know of another
person who saw the sunday bird and feels it wasn't the same as the one I
photographed on friday. A number of people saw the first picture and were
saying its a graganey, then they saw the second picture and said oh its a
Green-winged Teal. The field marks we saw on friday and photographed were real
not artiffacts of the light or covered in mud. I very much doubt we would have
missed that much orangein the bill of the bird as for us it appeared all gray.
To me the second picture doesn't quite look the bird we had. The picture Dick
Newell posted was interesting as I didn't know Greenw-ings could get that strong
of a face pattern, however our bird had a much stronger face patter then that.
Once again I have several more photos which I am willing to share of the bird
friday which didn't show any field marks of Green-winged. Good Birding
David Vander PluymUC Santa Cruz California
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