ID-FRONTIERS for June 1-7, 2003

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   The Cal. teal, and GW Teal variation   Martin Reid    Sun, 1 Jun 2003   5:17am   possible kamchatka gull   Don Cecile    Sun, 1 Jun 2003   8:10am   Re: The Cal. teal, and GW Teal variation   David Vander Pluym    Sun, 1 Jun 2003   8:03pm   Tertials of Garganey and Teal   Andrew Harrop    Mon, 2 Jun 2003   4:05pm   Re: Tertials of Garganey and Teal   David Vander Pluym    Mon, 2 Jun 2003   7:20pm   Re: Tertials of Garganey and Teal   Dick Newell    Tue, 3 Jun 2003   3:39am   Sandwich/Cayenne Terns   Floyd Hayes    Wed, 4 Jun 2003   11:31am   Possible Western Gull   Bob Richter    Sat, 7 Jun 2003   9:00pm   Re: Possible Western Gull   Alvaro Jaramillo    Sat, 7 Jun 2003   10:07pm

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Subject: The Cal. teal, and GW Teal variation
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 1 Jun 2003 5:17am

Dear all,
A most interesting bird and discussion, which has provoked me into
resurrecting my GW Teal page (almost a megabyte of imagery - be patient):
http://www.martinreid.com/gwteal.html
I feel that the Cal. bird is a GWT (even if the two photos refer to
different birds, I still feel that both are GWT.)  I recall one May in 1992
or 1993 when I found a "Garganey" just like the first photo, at my local
patch, and I was on my way to make the calls when i decided to re-check it
- thankfully!  I'd only been in the USA a couple of years, and had not yet
REALLY studied variation in GWT - but it had been just long enough to have
faded my memory of Garganeys back in my native Europe.  Now that I have a
better feel for GWT variation, I regard the ID of non-breeding Garganey to
be a very tough ID over here, unless excellent views/images showing the
extended upperwing are part of the data.
Referring to my web page, take a look at that AK bird (bird K); even with
the experience I've gathered in this matter, my jaw dropped when Bev handed
me these pics and asked what it was....
BTW Garganey is a large teal, it should look the same size as a BWT, and
thus only a freakish runt Garganey would look smaller than GWT, I feel
(anyone disagree with this?).
I'd be very interested to get more feedback on the birds at my page, and
how these birds change (if at all) your perceptions of the Cal. bird(s).
Thanks,
Martin

Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com


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Subject: possible kamchatka gull
From: Don Cecile <dcecile(AT)sd22.bc.ca>
Date: 1 Jun 2003 8:10am

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I am looking for someone who would be willing to host a few pictures of
a  mew gull that had some characteristics suggesting it may be of the
kamtschatshensis race.  I have a description of the bird along with a
few distant photos that I would like to receive comment on.
Please respond privately if you are willing to host these images and
description on my behalf.

Cheers,
Don Cecile

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Subject: Re: The Cal. teal, and GW Teal variation
From: David Vander Pluym <SCRE(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 1 Jun 2003 8:03pm

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Martin and all
These GWTE that Martin posted do not change my perception of the teal Matt
and I had in Baker though they did enlighten me to how close the face pattern
can appear to a Garganey (especilly the Alaska bird which probably would have
tricked me for a while).  They and the discussion also made me aware of other
features that are helpful in teal seperation.  However with every photo there
are obvious differences between the bird we had and these photos.

1.  Wing pattern, every bird on your page has brown in the wings and all but
one show a greenish speculum.  In my description, which I posted, I stated
that the bird had gray wings and a dark speculum with a white trailing edge and
a
white stripe.

2.  The face pattern is different from everyone of the GWTE on your page.
Ours showed a white spot at the base of the bill which bled into the white
strip
below the eye.  The cheeks were gray not brown unlike all of your photos.
Between the white streak and the gray cheeks was a dark border. which ran to
the
bill and seperated the white stripe from the white chin.

3.  The bill was to large and gray unlike most of the GWTE on your page.
Also the head shape was wrong.

4.  The body plumage is totally dark.  As stated in my notes which I posted
the bird showed a Pectoral Sandpiper like cut off to the chest contrasting with
the white belly.  The tertials were dark centered with white edgings.  The
scaps also were dark centered with either white or buffy edgings.  For me the
overal body plumage was also much lighter than most GWTE.  Also usually GWTE to
me have a more of a messy looking body pattern while this bird was very neat.

Though short of a concensus it seems most birders agree the bird Matt and I
had friday was a Garganey which was then replaced by a Garganey looking GWTE
which was photographed on Sunday by Mike San Miguel.

David Vander Pluym
UCSC California

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Subject: Tertials of Garganey and Teal
From: Andrew Harrop <andrew.harrop(AT)VIRGIN.NET>
Date: 2 Jun 2003 4:05pm

Dear All,

Following Martin Reid's posting, it seems worth drawing attention to a
diagnostic difference between the tertials of female Garganey and female
Teal (used here as an umbrella term for crecca and carolinensis since they
are similar in this respect):-

female Garganey has solidly dark-centred tertials with white fringes;

female Teal has tertials which are grey/brown by the shaft, but darken
towards the fringe which may be whitish or buff.

These differences were clearly illustrated by Killian Mullarney in the
Collins Bird Guide.

The Baker SF bird (in both photos) has the tertial pattern of Teal.

Best wishes,
Andrew Harrop
Rutland
UK


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Subject: Re: Tertials of Garganey and Teal
From: David Vander Pluym <SCRE(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 2 Jun 2003 7:20pm

As I had stated in my description which I posted here a couple of times the
first bird seen on friday which the first photo is of had dark centered tertials
 with white edgings.  A couple of the other photos I have show this a lot better
 then the one photo posted.  As always it is important to read descriptions of a
 bird as the photos may not show everything or may distort certain features.

David Vander Pluym
UC Santa Cruz California


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Subject: Re: Tertials of Garganey and Teal
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)MACUNLIMITED.NET>
Date: 3 Jun 2003 3:39am

re: http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/garg.htm

I must say, I cannot see that the teal-like tertial pattern in the two
photographs is due to a photographic effect - as Andrew Harrop says, it's
very like the illustration in the Collins Guide - which is renowned for its
detailed accuracy. [aside, since getting into digiscoping, I frequently see
more detail in my pictures than I perceived in the field].

Another point which I don't think has been mentioned is that Garganey
invariably looks quite long in the tail, unlike both of the pictures of the
Baker's bird(s)

One thing puzzles me, the Garganey-like teal that I posted earlier (
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=933 ) , apart from the
outer tertial, doesn't seem to have a teal-like tertial pattern - so this
diagnostic needs to be used with caution.
Dick Newell, Cambridge, UK

On 3/6/03 2:41 am, "David Vander Pluym" <SCRE(AT)AOL.COM> wrote:

> As I had stated in my description which I posted here a couple of times the
> first bird seen on friday which the first photo is of had dark centered
> tertials with white edgings.  A couple of the other photos I have show this a
> lot better then the one photo posted.  As always it is important to read
> descriptions of a bird as the photos may not show everything or may distort
> certain features.
>
> David Vander Pluym
> UC Santa Cruz California
>


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Subject: Sandwich/Cayenne Terns
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 4 Jun 2003 11:31am

Photos demonstrating bill color variation in a mixed
colony of Sanwich/Cayenne Terns in the US Virgin
Islands, plus additional photos from other locations,
are posted at:

http://www.geocities.com/secaribbirds/idsandwichcayennetern

Geocities limits the number of hits per hour at its
free  websites, so if the webpage is temporarily shut
down, try again in another hour.

=====
Floyd E. Hayes
Wildlife Biologist
Division of Fish and Wildlife, 6291 Estate Nazareth,
St. Thomas, Virgin Islands 00802, USA
Tel: 340-775-6762; Fax: 340-775-3972
Website: http://www.geocities.com/floyd_hayes

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com


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Subject: Possible Western Gull
From: Bob Richter <slothrop(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 7 Jun 2003 9:00pm

The bird was seen june 6 and 7 in Jacksonville Florida. It was noticeably
smaller than Great Black-backed Gulls, same size as Herring. It tended to
avoid the Great Black-backs and Herring's, keeping to itself or with
Laughing and Ring-billeds. Photos available at:

http://home.attbi.com/~slothrop/wsb/index.html


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Subject: Re: Possible Western Gull
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)ATTBI.COM>
Date: 7 Jun 2003 10:07pm

At 08:50 PM 6/7/2003 -0700, Bob Richter wrote:
>The bird was seen june 6 and 7 in Jacksonville Florida. It was noticeably
>smaller than Great Black-backed Gulls, same size as Herring. It tended to
>avoid the Great Black-backs and Herring's, keeping to itself or with
>Laughing and Ring-billeds. Photos available at:
>
>http://home.attbi.com/~slothrop/wsb/index.html

Bob,

   This is not a Western Gull. Structurally the bill is not thick enough at
the base, body too slim, wings too long, head too elongate, eye too large
etc. The orbital ring looks reddish on your  bird, it should be yellow on a
Western Gull. The eye is paler than on any Western Gull I have ever seen.
The leg colour and bill colours are not right for a bird of this age. The
legs have a yellowish tone on them that you don't see on young Western
Gull. I think you should think about Lesser Black-backed Gull and
Yellow-legged Gull forms, the identification likely lies in those old world
taxa. I know little about them so can't help you much. I do see hundreds of
Western Gulls daily, and it certainly is not one of them. Whatever it is,
its a good find! I hope the European folks can give a more intelligent
answer to this question.

regards

Alvaro

Alvaro Jaramillo
Biologist
San Francisco Bay Bird Observatory
P.O. Box 247
Alviso, CA 95002
(408)-946-6548
http://www.sfbbo.org/
chucao(AT)attbi.com