ID-FRONTIERS for June 8-14, 2003

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Reply: Possible Western Gull   Millington/BIS    Sun, 8 Jun 2003   2:08am   Re: Possible Western Gull   Robert Lewis    Sun, 8 Jun 2003   11:00am   Possible Western Gull   Tim Vaughan    Tue, 10 Jun 2003   8:44am   Re: Possible Western Gull   Norman D.van Swelm   Thu, 12 Jun 2003   2:52am   Re: Possible Western Gull   John Idzikowski    Thu, 12 Jun 2003   5:53am   Re: Possible Western Gull   D. Heindel   Thu, 12 Jun 2003   8:25am   My 27th and last quiz   Michel Bertrand    Thu, 12 Jun 2003   12:15pm   Black-tailed Gull in Wisconsin   John Idzikowski    Thu, 12 Jun 2003   12:42pm   Hybrids   AL    Fri, 13 Jun 2003   7:36am   photos of a possible Kamchatka Gull   DonCecile    Sat, 14 Jun 2003   11:18am

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Subject: Reply: Possible Western Gull
From: Millington/BIS <sales(AT)birdingworld.co.uk>
Date: 8 Jun 2003 2:08am

Hi
As Alvaro suggests,
This looks like a standard Lesser Black-backed Gull. Probably a large male
graellsii.

It is in (slightly retarded) third cal year plumage. Second-summer would
normally have begun to moult at least the median coverts by this date, but
otherwise is typical (albeit a little adraded & bleached).

I love the gull walking in front in the first picture ... I had a pet
guinea-pig once that looked very similar!

cheers
Richard

sales(AT)birdingworld.co.uk

.........................................................
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Richter" <slothrop(AT)ATTBI.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: 08 June 2003 04:50
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Possible Western Gull

> The bird was seen june 6 and 7 in Jacksonville Florida. It was noticeably
> smaller than Great Black-backed Gulls, same size as Herring. It tended to
> avoid the Great Black-backs and Herring's, keeping to itself or with
> Laughing and Ring-billeds. Photos available at:
>
> http://home.attbi.com/~slothrop/wsb/index.html


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Subject: Re: Possible Western Gull
From: Robert Lewis <lewis(AT)BWAY.NET>
Date: 8 Jun 2003 11:00am

I agree that this is a typical LBBG (graellsii).

Bob Lewis
Sleepy Hollow NY


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Subject: Possible Western Gull
From: Tim Vaughan <timvaughan(AT)TALK21.COM>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 8:44am

Hi
The possible Western Gull clearly is a graellsii LBB Gull as suggested by
Richard and Bob. Here at Seaforth, UK I have seen hundreds of birds like this
this spring and just these past few weeks too. Unlike some previous difficult
large gulls seen in the US one doesn't need to wade through the complexities of
Yellow-Legged Gull forms on this occasion - its a splendid Florida record of LBB
 Gull.
Tim Vaughan

--------------------
talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at
http://www.talk21.com


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Subject: Re: Possible Western Gull
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 12 Jun 2003 2:52am

Bob Richter wrote:> The bird was seen june 6 and 7 in Jacksonville Florida.
It was noticeably
> smaller than Great Black-backed Gulls, same size as Herring. It tended to
> avoid the Great Black-backs and Herring's, keeping to itself or with
> Laughing and Ring-billeds. Photos available at:
>
> http://home.attbi.com/~slothrop/wsb/index.html
>
Assuming that Bob's gull is in second summer (3rd calendar year) plumage I
feel that the worn wing coverts do not match those of Lesser Black-backs of
similar age we see along the Dutch coast at present. I know colours on
screen can be unreliable but the pale pinkish leg-colour I see on my screen
is just a trifle too pale for Lesser Black-backed Gull many of which have
yellow(ish) legs anyway. The bill is quite thick-set for Lesser Black-back.
Bob says that it is similar in size to (American) Herring Gull. Hence it may
be a bit too big for Lesser Black-back.
Norman


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Subject: Re: Possible Western Gull
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 12 Jun 2003 5:53am

> Bob Richter wrote:> The bird was seen june 6 and 7 in Jacksonville
Florida.
> It was noticeably
> > smaller than Great Black-backed Gulls, same size as Herring. It tended
to
> > avoid the Great Black-backs and Herring's, keeping to itself or with
> > Laughing and Ring-billeds. Photos available at:
> >
> > http://home.attbi.com/~slothrop/wsb/index.html
> >

The shots as posted are unnaturally dark, but even when lightened to the
shadowless overcast under which they were taken the mantle looks too dark
for a graellsii; we have been seeing an increasing number of intermedius
type Lessers on the western Great Lakes in the last 12 years as this bird
suggests to me. Also when lightened, shots 1017 and 1018 do show a yellowish
cast to the legs on my monitor. We have rarely seen hybrids of smith. x
marinus as well, initially regarded as "Westerns" but the mantles have
always been lighter than shown on this bird, approaching a light graellsii.

John Idzikowski
Milwaukee,Wisc.


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Subject: Re: Possible Western Gull
From: "D. Heindel" <birdfish(AT)earthlink.net>
Date: 12 Jun 2003 8:25am

Hi all,

I hate to get into a gull thing... but....
I live covered in Wymani Western Gulls,
and my gut reaction is that this is not one.
That doesn't mean it can't be though....

Some pictures of known WEGU are at
http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/kmhrp/gulls.html
(including a 3rd year bird)

The JAX bird doesn't seem to have the head or
bill shape of WEGU. Overall shape is hard to
judge scrolling back and forth on body parts,
for me anyway. The coverts do look OK for a
torn and frayed WEGU. The pale eyed WEGUs I see
seem to have a yellow tone and this eye
appears pure white without color tint...
Leg color is off for any WEGU. To me they are
a much bulkier more heavilly built bird than
a Herring Gull....

maybe half a cents worth.....

happy feathers!
Mitch
Mitch Heindel
birdfish(AT)earthlink.net

> [Original Message]
> From: Norman D.van Swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL>
> To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
> Date: 6/12/2003 2:48:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Possible Western Gull
>
> Bob Richter wrote:> The bird was seen june 6 and 7 in Jacksonville
Florida.
> It was noticeably
> > smaller than Great Black-backed Gulls, same size as Herring. It tended
to
> > avoid the Great Black-backs and Herring's, keeping to itself or with
> > Laughing and Ring-billeds. Photos available at:
> >
> > http://home.attbi.com/~slothrop/wsb/index.html
> >
> Assuming that Bob's gull is in second summer (3rd calendar year) plumage I
> feel that the worn wing coverts do not match those of Lesser Black-backs
of
> similar age we see along the Dutch coast at present. I know colours on
> screen can be unreliable but the pale pinkish leg-colour I see on my
screen
> is just a trifle too pale for Lesser Black-backed Gull many of which have
> yellow(ish) legs anyway. The bill is quite thick-set for Lesser
Black-back.
> Bob says that it is similar in size to (American) Herring Gull. Hence it
may
> be a bit too big for Lesser Black-back.
> Norman


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Subject: My 27th and last quiz
From: Michel Bertrand <bertrmi(AT)colba.net>
Date: 12 Jun 2003 12:15pm

Hi,

The quiz #27 from QuébecOiseaux is now on the magazine website at
http://www.quebecoiseaux.qc.ca/HTML/Defi.html
The deadline for sending your identification is June 25 juin and three
prizes will be given.

See the translation of the webpage text at the end of my message.

That 27th quiz will be my last one. Without consulting me, the direction of
the magazine has taken some decisions about the future quizzes and I don't
want to do them according to those decisions. So, I will write the official
answer to the quiz #27 for the magazine and they will continue as they want.
I still has a faith in QuébecOiseaux and I hope the persons interested in
Québec birds will continue to read it. I will contribute other kinds of
articles and ideas for improving the magazine, as I was, but I don't want,
after six years, to do a more restricted quiz.

A great thanks to all the persons from many parts of the World who has
answered the 26 first quizzes and who will participate to the 27th. A
special thank to Alain Hogue who has provided most of the photos and to the
other photographers.

My first goal was to help the birders to learn to identify birds in a more
rigorous and analytical way. I was trying also to clarify (mostly in the
answers published in the magazine) some identification problems for which
the guides available six years ago were deficient. There has been a neat
progress with the new guides and I hope my quizzes have helped a little. It
has been a pleasure to invite the members of some birding forums to play
those identification games with the Québécois and I'm very glad about how
you have welcomed them. And perhaps those quizzes have been a way to you to
see that birding is also done in French in North America.

Here is the translation of the text on the quiz webpage :

----------------------

Quiz no. 27

A friend, who has traveled in Ontario, has sent you that photo of a bird he
has seen. He can't take a decision about the exact identification of his
bird and want to know your idea about it. What would be your answer? How
would you argue for him about your conclusion?

Please send your answer not later than June 25 to Michel Bertrand, 900 rue
des Paysans, Sainte-Julie, Qc (J3E 1K7) or, by e-mail, to bertrmi(AT)colba.net.
Don't forget to include your name and postal address to have a chance to win
one of the prizes (you must include them to be qualified for the draws and I
guarantee that those addresses will not be used for something else than
sending the prizes to the winners).

Three prizes will be drawn among those who will identify correctly the
mystery bird: the video cassette "De ma fenêtre" by Jean-Louis Frund, the
field guide "Oiseaux du Québec et des Maritimes" by Jean Paquin & Ghislain
Caron (Éditions Michel Quintin) and the site guide "25 jours d'observation
d'oiseaux" by Samuel Denault (Éditions Tricycle).

Now, open your guides...

----------------------

The answer to quiz #26

The previous mystery bird was a first-spring female Bay-breasted Warbler
(Paruline à poitrine baie - Dendroica castanea). See the current issue of
QuébecOiseaux for a detailed article about its identification.

----------------------

Good luck, good birding and salutations amicales...

     MICHEL BERTRAND
     Sainte-Julie, Qc
     bertrmi(AT)colba.net


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Subject: Black-tailed Gull in Wisconsin
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 12 Jun 2003 12:42pm

This First of State record (and perhaps first for the Gr Lakes) was
discovered this morning in Racine Wisconsin at Wind Point by Eric Howe and
later relocated on public beaches just north of downtown Racine.

http://hoyaudubon.org/birds/

John Idzikowski, Milwaukee


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Subject: Hybrids
From: AL <al(AT)CCANDS.COM>
Date: 13 Jun 2003 7:36am

Two questions:

1) Recently (but, alas, briefly) sighted a Red-winged Blackbird with pale
orange on its head, primarily on the back half (rest seemed to be a normal
black).  Any idea what might cause such an unusual color?  Any record of
hybridization with Yellow-headed?

2) Had a chance to observe my first Lawrence's Warbler recently (singing
seven note song, which initially drew me), about 30 miles west of Madison,
WI.  Blue-winged nest in the area, but not Golden-winged (latter perhaps
100 miles north).  Was surprised to see a Lawrence's outside of a mutual
nesting area during post-migration.  Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Al Schirmacher
Madison, WI
mailto:al(AT)ccands.com


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Subject: photos of a possible Kamchatka Gull
From: DonCecile <dcecile(AT)SD22.BC.CA>
Date: 14 Jun 2003 11:18am

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Thanks to all that responded to my initial request for a place to house a
few pictures of this odd Mew Gull.
The pictures along with my description can be found
at:  http://www.bway.net/~lewis/birds/gulls.html
Many thanks to Robert Lewis for setting up this page.
I am interested in hearing from those familiar with kamchatka gulls whether
they feel this bird is an aberrant Mew or if indeed it has enough kamchatka
features.
The bird was photographed from a distance of approx. 75 metres but
hopefully the combination of photos and description will suffice to
properly ID this bird.

Cheers,
Don Cecile
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