ID-FRONTIERS for September 7-13, 2003

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in Short-billed Dowitcher   Kevin McLaughlin    Mon, 8 Sep 2003   6:01am   Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in Short-billed Dowitcher   Matt Heindel    Mon, 8 Sep 2003   7:55am   Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in Short-billed Dowitcher   Caleb Putnam    Mon, 8 Sep 2003   10:16am   Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in Short-billed Dowitcher   Ben Winger    Mon, 8 Sep 2003   11:38am   Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in Short-billed Dowitcher   creagrus    Mon, 8 Sep 2003   12:18pm   Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in Short-billed Dowitcher   Ben Winger    Mon, 8 Sep 2003   3:25pm   Re: Possible Lawrence's Warbler   John Idzikowski    Tue, 9 Sep 2003   8:30am   Re: Possible Lawrence's Warbler   Allen Chartier    Tue, 9 Sep 2003   10:08am   Re: Possible Lawrence's Warbler   John Idzikowski    Tue, 9 Sep 2003   1:53pm   Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in Short-billed Dowitcher   John Idzikowski    Tue, 9 Sep 2003   9:46pm   Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in Short-billed Dowitcher   Ben Winger    Tue, 9 Sep 2003   10:39pm   Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in Short-billed Dowitcher   John Idzikowski    Wed, 10 Sep 2003   5:06am   Fw: Possible Lawrence's Warbler (fwd)   John Idzikowski    Wed, 10 Sep 2003   2:23pm   Least Bell's vs. Gray Vireo   Don Roberson    Wed, 10 Sep 2003   5:42pm   stop   John Petersen    Wed, 10 Sep 2003   7:23pm   Mystery Warbler from NJ   Paul A. Guris   Sat, 13 Sep 2003   5:24pm   Re: Mystery Warbler from NJ   Mike Patterson    Sat, 13 Sep 2003   6:49pm

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Subject: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in Short-billed
          Dowitcher
From: Kevin McLaughlin <kmclaughlin(AT)UNIONGAS.COM>
Date: 8 Sep 2003 6:01am

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I had a most interesting observation at the Grimsby ( Ontario ) sewage
lagoons yesterday,Sunday September 7.

Among the numerous feeding shorebirds in the north lagoon were six juvenile
Short-billed Dowitchers,subspecies hendersoni or griseus.I suddenly became
aware that one individual was obviously in the early stages of first
pre-basic molt,something that I have never seen in Ontario in 30 years of
observation.

Rather disbelieving at first,I made careful note of the copious internal
spots and lines on the tertials and spotted greater coverts,this to preclude
the possibility of an early molting juvenile Long-billed Dowitcher (
species/age rare at this date ).

The evidence of first pre-basic molt were approximately four fresh basic
scapulars on both sides and a number of gray mantle feathers mingled in with
darker brown-buff feathers.The new scapulars were mid-gray with a thin dark
shaft streak,the feathers paling a bit around the edge.These contrasted
strikingly with the dark juvenile scapulars surrounding them.

A chat with Ron Pittaway later in the day revealed that Ron too has never
seen a molting juvenile Short bill in August or September in Ontario.Note
however that our facility in observing molt in this species-age class is
greatly limited,as juvenile Short bills are essentially gone from the
province by the first of October.

We would be most interested to hear from others regarding the timing of this
molt in juvenile Short-billed Dowitcher south of Ontario.

Kevin McLaughlin
Hamilton, Ontario.

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Subject: Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in
         Short-billed Dowitcher
From: Matt Heindel <MTHEINDEL(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 8 Sep 2003 7:55am

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The note on early molt is interesting and something I had not heard of. In
eastern CA, juv Short-billeds are mostly done with their passage by mid-Sep,
with 22 Sep being a late date (for Kern Co). Interestingly, Jon Dunn found a
late
juv Short-billed on 22 Oct (1990 or so) and it was still entirely in juv
plumage. While shocking to see the bird, we were not surprised it was still in
juvenal plumage. That and other data made me think that they did not start this
molt until they reached their wintering grounds. Thanks for shaking that
foundation!

Matt Heindel
San Antonio TX

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Subject: Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in
         Short-billed Dowitcher
From: Caleb Putnam <larus10(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 8 Sep 2003 10:16am

Kevin/Birders-

I have recently looked at the status of 1st prebasic molt on a small sample
(n=25-30) of Short- and Long-Billed Dowitcher specimens from various
museums.  Several individual hatching-year (HY) Short-Billed Dowitchers
(SBDO) from my sample had replaced some mantle feathers before reaching the
wintering grounds, and the molt appeared to have been suspended on at least
some birds.  From my notes:

SBDO, L. g. hendersoni.  Beaver Lake, Alta.  30-Jul-1930.  1/4 of anterior
mantle first basic; rest of upperparts juv.

SBDO, L. g. griseus.  Marshfield, Plymouth Cty, MA.  16-Aug-1913.  1/3 of
upper mantle first basic, rest of plumage juv.

SBDO, L. g. griseus.  Hatteras, N. C.  04-Aug-1900.  Upper mantle with some
gray (=first basic)  feathers, rest juv.

SBDO, L. g. hendersoni.  Beaver Lake, Alta.  06-Sept-1930.  1/2 mantle first
basic, possibly suspended, rest of plumage juv.

SBDO, L. g. griseus.  Mecox Bay, Suffolk Cty, N. Y.  20-Aug-1925.  Upper
mantle first basic, rest juv.

I did not discover any HY SBDO with replaced scapulars away from the
wintering grounds, and I seem to remember having a difficult time
distinguishing the two mantle feather generations on some of the above birds
(differences in wear and color were visible only on close inspection), which
may make things considerably more difficult to see in the field.  Perhaps
this phenomenon is under-recorded in the field as a result?  Kevin- did you
note the presence of any first basic mantle feathers on the Ontario bird?
Are there any photos of the bird you could post?

I did examine 2 SBDO in full juvenal plumage (Jul 28, Nova Scotia and Aug
14, Massachusetts), so some birds may reach the wintering grounds (or close
to it) before initiating this molt.  Others obviously began it near (on?)
the breeding grounds (though found only in hendersoni- no comparable griseus
or caurinus were examined), and these birds probably suspended before
migrating, judged by the already moderately worn condition of all first
basic feathers on several skins from stopovers (unfortunately I didn't check
for pin feathers on these birds to eliminate active molt).

For what it's worth, HY LBDO also can begin this molt before reaching the
wintering grounds, as evidenced by several skins from interior B. C. in mid
September.  On these birds I found several with replaced mantle, scapulars,
nape, and even crown feathers.

Cheers,

Caleb Putnam

Caleb G Putnam
Kalkaska, MI
larus10(AT)hotmail.com

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Subject: Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in
         Short-billed Dowitcher
From: Ben Winger <Catharus9(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 8 Sep 2003 11:38am

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Greetings,

I have looked at specimens of Short-billed Dowitchers in the collections of
Cornell University and noticed that some of the juveniles had replaced
nape/mantle feathers well before arrival on the wintering grounds.   I don't
have my
notes accessible right now, but I can recall seeing several birds taken in
August at various locations north of the wintering grounds that showed this
state
of molt.   I do not recall any juveniles that had replaced scapulars.   As
soon as I can get a hold of my notes, I will post a more detailed review of
these
birds, and I may even have some photographs.

sincerely,

Ben Winger
Cornell University, Ithaca, NY and
Cleveland Hts., OH

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Subject: Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in
         Short-billed Dowitcher
From: creagrus <creagrus(AT)MONTEREYBAY.COM>
Date: 8 Sep 2003 12:18pm

I've not seen any such molt in clearly migrant _caurinus_ Short-bills in
the West and have not seen it discussed.  Is it possible that this
occasional early molt is restricted to eastern populations (nominate &
hendersoni)? In contrast, it is not uncommon to see juv. Long-billeds
out here, later in the autumn, in body molt at locations where they do
not winter.

Don Roberson
Pacific Grove CA


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Subject: Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in
         Short-billed Dowitcher
From: Ben Winger <Catharus9(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 8 Sep 2003 3:25pm

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I have digital photos of six Short-billed Dowitcher skins that show prebasic
body molt north of the wintering grounds, and two photos of Long-billed
Dowitcher skins in the same conditions.   If anyone is interested in seeing
these
photos, please e-mail me privately at bw85(AT)cornell.edu (I will soon be
switching
all my e-mail to this address).   Or, if anyone has a web page that could
host the photos temporarily, that would be fine with me as well.

cheers

Ben Winger

Cornell University, Ithaca NY
and Cleveland Heights, OH

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Subject: Re: Possible Lawrence's Warbler
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 9 Sep 2003 8:30am

The recently netted Vermivora from Wisconsin posted here (below) received
various comments including 3 stating that this bird was in the normal range
of variation for a female GWWA, 2 agreeing that it is a female Lawrence's
and one stating that it probably is a heterozygous GWWA, inferring that the
recessive allele imparts the increased green to the upper back and
underparts. And then I received this analysis from John Confer of the
Cornell Golden-winged Warbler Atlas Project-

The bottom-line answer is that noone knows for certain what is the limit of
variation for a pure GWWA female. Noone has doen the controlled breeding
experiments to provide the definitive answer. However, both Gill and Short
derived a scale for scoring color variation and provided their guess about
what
is within the range of pure GWWA and what is a hybrid. In brief, if you
score
100  female GWWA and 95 of them range from 25 to 21 and five of them score
from
10 to 15, then the discontinuous scoring suggests a range for pure birds and
a
separate scoring range for hybrids. Score of 0 to 4 would be a pure BWWA.
Gill
used (1) back color, (2) nape color, (3) ventral color, (4) wing bar color
and
(5) the difference between a wing patch and two wing bars and assigned an
ideal,
pure GWWA value of 5 to each.. A pure GWWA would score from 25 to 22 (if I
remember correctly). I would score this bird (as best you can judge from a
photo) as: 2, 2, 3, 5, 4, respectively. Thus the composite score would be
16.
That is closer to a hybrid than a pure GWWA and I guess it is a Lawrence's.
However, I have had two other's send me a similar set of photos and I have
seen
several females that looked much like this. They appear to occur rarely, but
not
as rarely as one might expect for a Lawrence's. I think it has some recent
BWWA
ancestry, but I'm not positive. I would have liked to see more yellow on the
ventral side and some white in the wing bars to feel more confident.
_______

A Genetics 101 level review of the crosses between BWWA and GWWA can be
found at

http://members.aol.com/toddfors/birdsm97.htm

___________

Subject: Possible Lawrence's Warbler
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj AT UWM.EDU>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 16:05:54 -0500

One of Wisconsin's most experienced banders sent me digitals of a rather
green-backed female "golden-winged" Warbler. The back is greener than any
either he or I have ever encountered in a female during fall netting. We are
aware of the variation in the amount of green on the upper back of female
Golden-winged, but we believe that this bird might be a Lawrence's; we would
appreciate comments from anyone familar with the range of variations in this
hybrid complex.

http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/warblers/warbler.JPG
http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/warblers/warbler2.JPG
http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/warbler3.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/warbler4.jpg

John Idzikowski, Milwaukee


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Subject: Re: Possible Lawrence's Warbler
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia1(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 9 Sep 2003 10:08am

John,

John Confer wrote to you:

> The bottom-line answer is that noone knows for certain what is the limit
of
> variation for a pure GWWA female. Noone has doen the controlled breeding
> experiments to provide the definitive answer. However, both Gill and Short
> derived a scale for scoring color variation and provided their guess about
> what is within the range of pure GWWA and what is a hybrid. I

Any way we can get the full citation on this, so we can read it ourselves,
in its entirety?

Allen Chartier
amazilia1(AT)comcast.net
1442 West River Park Drive
Inkster, MI  48141
Website: http://www.amazilia.net
Michigan HummerNet: http://www.amazilia.net/MIHummerNet/index.htm


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Subject: Re: Possible Lawrence's Warbler
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 9 Sep 2003 1:53pm

These are the papers I believe-

Gill, F. B. 1980. Historical aspects of hybridization between blue-winged
and golden-winged warblers. Auk 97:1-18.

Short, L. L. 1963. Hybridization in the wood warblers VERMIVORA PINUS and V.
CHRYSOPTERA. Proc. 13th Intl. Ornithol. Congr. 147-160.

The accounts from the NAm Birds Life Histories series are no. 584 for
Blue-winged Wa. and no. 20 for Golden-winged.

John Idzikowski, Milwaukee

----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Chartier" <amazilia1(AT)COMCAST.NET>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Possible Lawrence's Warbler

> John,
>
> John Confer wrote to you:
>
> > The bottom-line answer is that noone knows for certain what is the limit
> of
> > variation for a pure GWWA female. Noone has doen the controlled breeding
> > experiments to provide the definitive answer. However, both Gill and
Short
> > derived a scale for scoring color variation and provided their guess
about
> > what is within the range of pure GWWA and what is a hybrid. I
>
> Any way we can get the full citation on this, so we can read it ourselves,
> in its entirety?
>
> Allen Chartier
> amazilia1(AT)comcast.net
> 1442 West River Park Drive
> Inkster, MI  48141
> Website: http://www.amazilia.net
> Michigan HummerNet: http://www.amazilia.net/MIHummerNet/index.htm


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Subject: Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in
         Short-billed Dowitcher
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 9 Sep 2003 9:46pm

Ben Winger of Cornell posted this message recently; I have posted these
digitals on my website (see below).

John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
_____

Subject: Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in Short-billed Dowitcher
From: Ben Winger <Catharus9 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:25:30 EDT

I have digital photos of six Short-billed Dowitcher skins that show prebasic
body molt north of the wintering grounds, and two photos of Long-billed
Dowitcher skins in the same conditions.

________

http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/dow1.jpg
Juvenile Long-billed Dowitcher in first prebasic molt.
September 22, 1928
Cayuga Co., NY
specimen #4043 (Cornell University)
_____

http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/dow2.jpg
Juvenile Long-billed Dowitcher well into first-basic molt.
September 26, 1941
Jackson Co., Minnesota
Cornell University #10844
_____

http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/dow3.jpg
The meat of the discussion...
Juvenile Short-billed Dowitchers in various stages of first prebasic molt.

Top bird: August 22, 1912
Cayuga Co., NY
Cornell University #4045

Middle Bird: August 17, 1948
Suffolck Co., NY
Cornell University #23685

Bottom Bird: Same as Middle Bird
Cornell University #23686

______

http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/dow4.jpg
Juvenile Short-billed Dowitcher beginning molt.
August 6, 1909
Magdalen Islands, Quebec
Cornell University #2079
_____

http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/dow5.jpg
Short-billed Dowitcher juvenile in first prebasic molt
September 11, 1946
Massachusetts (all I have written down for location)
Cornell University 21167


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Subject: Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in
         Short-billed Dowitcher
From: Ben Winger <Catharus9(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 9 Sep 2003 10:39pm

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Correction:   On the second link, a photo of a juvenile Long-billed Dowitcher
well into first prebasic molt, the text should read: September 26, 1941,
Jackson Co., Minnesota instead of September 22, 1928, Cayuga Co., NY

Ben

Ben Winger
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY
Cleveland Hts., OH

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Subject: Re: Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in
         Short-billed Dowitcher
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 10 Sep 2003 5:06am

This has been corrected on the image.

John Idzikowski, Milwaukee

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Winger" <Catharus9(AT)AOL.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Early onset of 1st pre-basic molt in Short-billed
Dowitcher

> Correction:   On the second link, a photo of a juvenile Long-billed
Dowitcher
> well into first prebasic molt, the text should read: September 26, 1941,
> Jackson Co., Minnesota instead of September 22, 1928, Cayuga Co., NY
>
> Ben
>
>
>
> Ben Winger
> Cornell University
> Ithaca, NY
> Cleveland Hts., OH
>


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Subject: Fw: Possible Lawrence's Warbler (fwd)
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 10 Sep 2003 2:23pm

This opinion from Frank Gill was received today through Ian Paulsen.

John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
______

> HI John:
>  This is from Frank Gill!
>
> --
> Ian Paulsen
> Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
> A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
> "Rallidae all the way!"
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:02:29 -0400
> From: "GILL, Frank" <FGILL(AT)audubon.org>
> To: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker(AT)zipcon.net>
> Subject: RE: [BIRDWG01] Possible Lawrence's Warbler (fwd)
>
> Looks close to an immature female GW, which can be very yellow/olive above
in their
> first fall. Maybe some introgression, but not near a Lawrence's,
> which should have near white wing bars and full yellow below.
> f
> ps Our indices were developed for male plumages, not females.
>


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Subject: Least Bell's vs. Gray Vireo
From: Don Roberson <creagrus(AT)montereybay.com>
Date: 10 Sep 2003 5:42pm

I host a "Monterey County [CA] highlights page" on which I've just
posted some Bell's Vireo photos, a rarity here. The page is at
http://montereybay.com/creagrus/MTY_2003b.html

Also included is a discussion of the field i.d. problem between Least
Bell's Vireo and Gray Vireo, a possibly under appreciated problem when
dealing with vagrants. [Some initially thought the MTY bird was a Gray;
there are no n. CA records of that species.] My thoughts there are
preliminary and tentative and possibly wrong; clarification would be
appreciated.

Don Roberson
Pacific Grove, CA


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Subject: stop
From: John Petersen <JoJoPete3(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 10 Sep 2003 7:23pm

    please cancel I am oversaturated with emails


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Subject: Mystery Warbler from NJ
From: "Paul A. Guris" <list-servers(AT)paulagics.com>
Date: 13 Sep 2003 5:24pm

Steve Kerr took a very nice shot of a very odd warbler this July in Bivalve,
NJ.
 He has solicited several opinions, though none of the respondents have been
confident (including me).  He does not subscribe to ID-Frontiers, so I'm
posting
on his behalf.  Please feel free to comment either to the list or directly to
me.

The photo is at:

    http://home.att.net/~hsk3/warbler.htm

-PAG

Paul A. Guris
See Life Paulagics
P.O. Box 161
Green Lane, PA  18054
www.paulagics.com
215-234-6805
info(AT)paulagics.com


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Subject: Re: Mystery Warbler from NJ
From: Mike Patterson <celata(AT)pacifier.com>
Date: 13 Sep 2003 6:49pm

American Redstart x Northern Parula

I also suspect that there may be green shift in
the photo....

"Paul A. Guris" wrote:
>
> Steve Kerr took a very nice shot of a very odd warbler this July in Bivalve,
NJ.
>  He has solicited several opinions, though none of the respondents have been
> confident (including me).  He does not subscribe to ID-Frontiers, so I'm
posting
> on his behalf.  Please feel free to comment either to the list or directly to
me.
>
> The photo is at:
>
>     http://home.att.net/~hsk3/warbler.htm
>
> -PAG
>
> Paul A. Guris
> See Life Paulagics
> P.O. Box 161
> Green Lane, PA  18054
> www.paulagics.com
> 215-234-6805
> info(AT)paulagics.com

--
Mike Patterson
Astoria, OR
celata(AT)pacifier.com

I do not know which to prefer,
  The beauty of inflections
    Or the beauty of innuendoes,
      The blackbird whistling
        Or just after.

                                - Wallace Stevens

http://www.pacifier.com/~mpatters/bird/bird.html