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ID-FRONTIERS for March 21-27, 2004
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Fw: [BirdsinRussia] Unidentified Gulls in the
Bering Sea | Norman D.van Swelm | Sun, 21 Mar 2004 | 4:01pm |
| Grackle sp. in Alabama | Swmavocet(AT)AOL.COM | Sun, 21 Mar 2004 | 8:02pm |
| Re: Grackle sp. in Alabama | Alvaro Jaramillo | Sun, 21 Mar 2004 | 9:43pm |
| Re: Grackle sp. in Alabama | GWPOTT(AT)AOL.COM | Sun, 21 Mar 2004 | 10:13pm |
| Re: Grackle sp. in Alabama | Peter Pyle | Sun, 21 Mar 2004 | 10:45pm |
| Re: Grackle sp. in Alabama | GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM | Sun, 21 Mar 2004 | 11:02pm |
| Re: Grackle sp. in Alabama | Alvaro Jaramillo | Sun, 21 Mar 2004 | 11:25pm |
| Fwd: Article on Cape Gull (a potential spilt from
Kelp Gull) | Phil Davis | Mon, 22 Mar 2004 | 2:38am |
| Re: Grackle sp. in Alabama | Keith Arnold | Mon, 22 Mar 2004 | 1:25pm |
| Another unusual gull at Corpus Christi, TX | Martin Reid | Tue, 23 Mar 2004 | 9:15am |
| Re: Another unusual gull at Corpus Christi, TX | Phillip Pickering | Tue, 23 Mar 2004 | 11:30am |
| Least/Little Tern on the Azores 2002 | Tommy Frandsen | Tue, 23 Mar 2004 | 2:21pm |
| Re: Another unusual gull at Corpus Christi, TX | Steve Hampton | Wed, 24 Mar 2004 | 12:13pm |
| inca doves inc. | z | Wed, 24 Mar 2004 | 5:38pm |
| Re: Another unusual gull at Corpus Christi, TX -
update | Martin Reid | Thu, 25 Mar 2004 | 5:28am |
| Emberiza ID-problem | Peter Nilsson | Thu, 25 Mar 2004 | 6:53am |
| Re: Another unusual gull at Corpus Christi, TX -
update | Phillip Pickering | Thu, 25 Mar 2004 | 9:16am |
| Something to snipe at | Martin Reid | Thu, 25 Mar 2004 | 1:15pm |
| Wisconsin gull | John Idzikowski | Fri, 26 Mar 2004 | 8:39am |
| Re: Wisconsin gull | Phillip Pickering | Fri, 26 Mar 2004 | 10:06am |
| Re: Wisconsin gull | GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM | Fri, 26 Mar 2004 | 1:15pm |
| Re: Wisconsin gull | Norman D.van Swelm | Fri, 26 Mar 2004 | 2:14pm |
| Re: Wisconsin gull | Steve Hampton | Fri, 26 Mar 2004 | 3:41pm |
| Re: Wiscosnin gull | John Idzikowski | Fri, 26 Mar 2004 | 6:41pm |
| Re: Wiscosnin gull | Norman D.van Swelm | Sat, 27 Mar 2004 | 5:40am |
| Re: Wiscosnin gull | John Idzikowski | Sat, 27 Mar 2004 | 7:19am |
| Russian request | Norman D.van Swelm | Sat, 27 Mar 2004 | 10:03am |
| Re: Russian request | John Idzikowski | Sat, 27 Mar 2004 | 7:36pm |
| Re: Russian request | Alvaro Jaramillo | Sat, 27 Mar 2004 | 10:13pm |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
|
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Fw: [BirdsinRussia] Unidentified Gulls in the
Bering Sea
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 21 Mar 2004 4:01pm
Here is a request from Russia.
Norman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jevgeni Shergalin" <zoolit(AT)hotmail.com>
To: <BirdsinRussia(AT)yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 4:24 PM
Subject: [BirdsinRussia] Unidentified Gulls in the Bering Sea
> Dear friends,
>
> 9 photographs of two unidentified gulls are placed in the chapter "Photos"
> of our site http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/BirdsinRussia/lst that
> were taken by friend of mine Dr.Yuri Artukhin at the end of 2003 in the
> Bering Sea. From the beginning Yuri thought that these gulls might be the
> Common Gulls but later he has begun to suspect their possible belonging to
> some North-American gull species. Thus Yuri will be grateful to anybody
with
> experience in identification of East-Asian and North-American Gulls, who
> will help him to identify these birds.
> Any comments remarks and judgements are appreciated either via our list or
> directly to Dr.Yuri Artukhin's email artukhin(AT)mail.iks.ru
>
> With best regards
>
> Jevgeni Shergalin zoolit(AT)hotmail.com http://my.tele2.ee/birds/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Grackle sp. in Alabama
From: Swmavocet(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 21 Mar 2004 8:02pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
During the fall of 2000 (Sep-Nov) a large female type grackle was present on
a oil/gas production rig in the Gulf of Mexico about 60 miles offshore
Alabama.
Photos of the bird taken in late September may be viewed at:
http://www.pbase.com/swmavocet/grackle
The observer wrote in his report: "The back, wings, and tail were dusky, in
good light showing some gloss or iridescence. The nape and crown were brown
and contrasted conspicuously with a long buffy supercilium. Below this the
face was medium brown in a broad triangular patch extending from bill to nape
and enclosing eye. Below this was a buffy malar or mustachial stripe which was
bordered by a thinner brown stripe. The throat was bright buffy. The breast
was dull medium browon shading to an even duller gray-brown on the belly. The
bill was long and heavy. The eye was rather bright ashy yellow. Only one
photo shows the head in good sunlight and even it understates the lightness of
the eye...I can state without reservation that the eyes were bright
ashy-yellow,
and I could never see brown (or amber) mottling or a brown or amber ring
within the irides."
Opinions are currently mixed among our state rare bird committee as to
whether this is a Great-tailed, Boat-tailed, hybrid, or an individual
unidentifiable
to species. Prior to final consideration of this record, I would like to
have some input from those on this forum who have regular contact with these
species, especially Great-tailed.
Great-tailed would be a potential 1st state record so any and all opinions
and knowledge is much appreciated and will be taken into account.
Bird well,
Steve McConnell
Member ABRC
Hartselle, AL
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Grackle sp. in Alabama
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 21 Mar 2004 9:43pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
At 10:01 PM 3/21/2004 -0500, Swmavocet(AT)AOL.COM wrote:
>During the fall of 2000 (Sep-Nov) a large female type grackle was present
>on a oil/gas production rig in the Gulf of Mexico about 60 miles offshore
>Alabama.
>
>Photos of the bird taken in late September may be viewed at:
>
>http://www.pbase.com/swmavocet/grackle
>
>The observer wrote in his report: "The back, wings, and tail were dusky,
>in good light showing some gloss or iridescence. The nape and crown were
>brown and contrasted conspicuously with a long buffy supercilium. Below
>this the face was medium brown in a broad triangular patch extending from
>bill to nape and enclosing eye. Below this was a buffy malar or
>mustachial stripe which was bordered by a thinner brown stripe. The
>throat was bright buffy. The breast was dull medium browon shading to an
>even duller gray-brown on the belly. The bill was long and heavy. The eye
>was rather bright ashy yellow. Only one photo shows the head in good
>sunlight and even it understates the lightness of the eye...I can state
>without reservation that the eyes were bright ashy-yellow, and I could
>never see brown (or amber) mottling or a brown or amber ring within the
>irides."
>
>Opinions are currently mixed among our state rare bird committee as to
>whether this is a Great-tailed, Boat-tailed, hybrid, or an individual
>unidentifiable to species. Prior to final consideration of this record, I
>would like to have some input from those on this forum who have regular
>contact with these species, especially Great-tailed.
>
>Great-tailed would be a potential 1st state record so any and all opinions
>and knowledge is much appreciated and will be taken into account.
My opinion is leaning to Great-tailed, largely based on the bill structure
and size, as well as the strong lateral throat stripes and contrasting
paler throat. The bill on this female grackle is big, and thick, in fact
thicker than on many typical Great-tails, I think it is well into
Great-tailed territory, and likely outside of Boat-tailed territory.
Furthermore the pale throat contrasting with a darker belly is typical of
many Great-tailed populations, the underparts are much more evenly coloured
(and warmer coloured) on Boat-tails. The addition of strong lateral throat
stripes is also good for Great-tailed. The eye colour as described, and as
it looks in the photos is consistent with Great-tailed, and appears too
pale and even for a pale eyed population of Boat-tailed. The fact that
there was iridescence on the upperparts is notable, both species show this
in females, but it is more extensive and noticeable in Great-tailed
females. Note that the tail is finishing moult (inner rectrices still short
and growing) so the tail will look longer when finally grown. Since it is
undergoing tail moult, it should be nearly finished moulting all of the
other body feathers, and therefore is relatively fresh. A fresh Boat-tailed
female should show a warmer underpart colour than this, as it appears that
in both of these species the underparts are warmest and most colorful when
fresh.
cheers
Alvaro
Alvaro Jaramillo
chucao(AT)comcast.net
Montara, California
Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
http://www.fieldguides.com/home.htm
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Grackle sp. in Alabama
From: GWPOTT(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 21 Mar 2004 10:13pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
My first impression of the Alabama Grackle was Great-tailed, based primarily
on bill and head shape. But I decided that my experience with Boat-tailed was
too limited to make a well educated comparison. However, now that Alvaro has
given his opinion (and who knows Icterids better than the man who wrote the
book), I feel much more confident that this is a Great-tailed Grackle, which I
now see frequently since their expansion in California. Cheers, Gary
Gary W. Potter
Sanger, Fresno Co., CA
GWPOTT(AT)aol.com
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Grackle sp. in Alabama
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle(AT)BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: 21 Mar 2004 10:45pm
Hi all - It looks like a good candidate for Great-tailed to me, as well.
However, I wanted to comment on Al's observations on molt. Unless grackles
differ from other passerines (which they might; Ken Parkes wrote a paper
once on simultaneous tail molt in Icterids), replacement of the central
rectrices usually signifies the beginning of a molt rather than the
completion of it. The bird looks a bit worn to me, in keeping with this,
and might weaken the arguments against Boat-tailed based on warmth of
plumage. Blackbirds have a complete or near-complete "preformative" molt in
Aug-Nov so it is also possible that this is a juvenile male beginning the
transition into formative plumage, although I see no black contour feathers
coming in yet. The eye color suggests a first-year bird. The possibility
that it is a male may further weaken the arguments for Great-tailed based
on size. Peter Pyle
At 08:43 PM 3/21/2004, Alvaro Jaramillo wrote:
>At 10:01 PM 3/21/2004 -0500, Swmavocet(AT)AOL.COM wrote:
>>During the fall of 2000 (Sep-Nov) a large female type grackle was present
>>on a oil/gas production rig in the Gulf of Mexico about 60 miles offshore
>>Alabama.
>>
>>Photos of the bird taken in late September may be viewed at:
>>
>>http://www.pbase.com/swmavocet/grackle
>>
>>The observer wrote in his report: "The back, wings, and tail were
>>dusky, in good light showing some gloss or iridescence. The nape and
>>crown were brown and contrasted conspicuously with a long buffy
>>supercilium. Below this the face was medium brown in a broad triangular
>>patch extending from bill to nape and enclosing eye. Below this was a
>>buffy malar or mustachial stripe which was bordered by a thinner brown
>>stripe. The throat was bright buffy. The breast was dull medium browon
>>shading to an even duller gray-brown on the belly. The bill was long and
>>heavy. The eye was rather bright ashy yellow. Only one photo shows the
>>head in good sunlight and even it understates the lightness of the
>>eye...I can state without reservation that the eyes were bright
>>ashy-yellow, and I could never see brown (or amber) mottling or a brown
>>or amber ring within the irides."
>>
>>Opinions are currently mixed among our state rare bird committee as to
>>whether this is a Great-tailed, Boat-tailed, hybrid, or an individual
>>unidentifiable to species. Prior to final consideration of this record,
>>I would like to have some input from those on this forum who have regular
>>contact with these species, especially Great-tailed.
>>
>>Great-tailed would be a potential 1st state record so any and all
>>opinions and knowledge is much appreciated and will be taken into account.
>
>My opinion is leaning to Great-tailed, largely based on the bill structure
>and size, as well as the strong lateral throat stripes and contrasting
>paler throat. The bill on this female grackle is big, and thick, in fact
>thicker than on many typical Great-tails, I think it is well into
>Great-tailed territory, and likely outside of Boat-tailed territory.
>Furthermore the pale throat contrasting with a darker belly is typical of
>many Great-tailed populations, the underparts are much more evenly
>coloured (and warmer coloured) on Boat-tails. The addition of strong
>lateral throat stripes is also good for Great-tailed. The eye colour as
>described, and as it looks in the photos is consistent with Great-tailed,
>and appears too pale and even for a pale eyed population of Boat-tailed.
>The fact that there was iridescence on the upperparts is notable, both
>species show this in females, but it is more extensive and noticeable in
>Great-tailed females. Note that the tail is finishing moult (inner
>rectrices still short and growing) so the tail will look longer when
>finally grown. Since it is undergoing tail moult, it should be nearly
>finished moulting all of the other body feathers, and therefore is
>relatively fresh. A fresh Boat-tailed female should show a warmer
>underpart colour than this, as it appears that in both of these species
>the underparts are warmest and most colorful when fresh.
>
>cheers
>
>Alvaro
>
>Alvaro Jaramillo
>chucao(AT)comcast.net
>Montara, California
>
>Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
>http://www.fieldguides.com/home.htm
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Grackle sp. in Alabama
From: GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 21 Mar 2004 11:02pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi all:
Since Peter brought it up, I thought that I would relate my experiences with
blackbirds molting rectrices. While I have not kept track over the years, I
have seen 100s (possibly >1000) of instances of blackbirds (particularly Common
Grackles, but also other species, e.g, Red-winged Blackbirds AND Great-tailed
Grackles) flying around in late summer/early fall with no tails. In my first
couple years of birding, I thought that the phenomenon was just chance. But
in my >25 years of birding, I have seen this EVERY fall and on LOTS of birds
every fall. Now, it is certainly not the norm, but it is in no way a rare
phenomenon.
Also, I wrote Steve McConnell privately on my thoughts on why the thing was a
Great-tailed Grackle. I put forward bill shape and size and head pattern
(pale super, particularly) as the main plumage features to support that ID.
However, I also mentioned that a Great-tailed Grackle in AL waters was less
distance from typical range of that species than a torreyi Boat-tailed would
be.
Additionally, Great-tailed is the more migratory of the two species and has a
long history of vagrancy, some times fairly long distance. Boat-tailed really
does seem to stick to the coast (at least in my experience on the east coast)
and it is exceedingly rare more than 25 mi or so from salt water -- though,
undoubtedly, there may be those that will write that the species is somewhat
common in xxxx place that's 26 miles from salt water. Regardless, the main
point
is that a vagrant Great-tailed on an AL oil rig is, in my experience and
opinion, much more likely than is an East Coast Boat-tailed on the same rig. I
realize that birds have wings and do get themselves into some odd places and
that
almost anything can happen, but I think this aspect is an important
consideration.
Enjoy,
Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Grackle sp. in Alabama
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 21 Mar 2004 11:25pm
At 09:45 PM 3/21/2004 -0800, Peter Pyle wrote:
>Hi all - It looks like a good candidate for Great-tailed to me, as well.
>However, I wanted to comment on Al's observations on molt. Unless grackles
>differ from other passerines (which they might; Ken Parkes wrote a paper
>once on simultaneous tail molt in Icterids), replacement of the central
>rectrices usually signifies the beginning of a molt rather than the
>completion of it.
Hi Peter and ID frontiers folks.
Peter is correct that replacement of central tail feathers usually
signals the start of the tail moult, but in the grackle-blackbird clade
(not the oropendolas, caciques, orioles) the tail moult begins with the
outer tail feathers and ends with the central feathers. I think that
Bobolink starts with the centrals, so the Bobo and perhaps members of its
clade which include the meadowlarks and Yellow-headed Blackbirds may have a
typical tail moult, starting with the central feathers. The works to look
at are: Parkes 1972. Tail molt in the family Icteridae. Proc. XVth Int.
Orn. Congress: 674; and Parkes 1997. Tail molt in the family Icteridae.
Poster presented at the 115th staged meeting of the American
Ornithologists' Union. The 1972 pub. notes that in Quiscalus (grackles) the
tail moult not only starts with the outer rectrices, but is nearly
simultaneous, so you often find tailless grackles. This is also common in
Red-winged Blackbirds. Specimens I have looked at have fit this general
pattern, although not all grackles moult their tail feathers
simultaneously. It would be interesting to know what makes some birds use
this strategy, while others do not. Generally tail-less grackles are found
in large post breeding flocks that roost together. Perhaps in areas of
lower densities, where larger aggregations are less common, they do not
moult the tail all at the same time?
> The bird looks a bit worn to me, in keeping with this,
>and might weaken the arguments against Boat-tailed based on warmth of
>plumage. Blackbirds have a complete or near-complete "preformative" molt in
>Aug-Nov so it is also possible that this is a juvenile male beginning the
>transition into formative plumage, although I see no black contour feathers
>coming in yet. The eye color suggests a first-year bird. The possibility
>that it is a male may further weaken the arguments for Great-tailed based
>on size. Peter Pyle
The plumage pattern and colour does not look good for a juvenile to me, as
juveniles are generally pretty obviously streaked on Great-tails, unless
one is dealing with the dark Mexican races. The underpart feathers look
good for a female type bird to me. Noticeable iridescence on the upperparts
is also bad for juveniles, which lack iridescence, so the upperparts appear
to be second generation feathers to me. Also the icterid species that I
have looked at which have a dark eye as juveniles and gain a pale eye (as
they age) pretty much always show some black/blackish second generation
feathers (in males) somewhere on the body by the time the eyes start
getting light. The eye colour change can be delayed quite a bit, and you
can end up with a full first basic (formative) plumage male Great-tailed
Grackle with dark eyes for example, but I have yet to see a bird with full
juvenile plumage that already has noticeably pale eyes. Sometimes it is
just a few body feathers that are of the second generation, but they seem
to be there when I look at them on birds that have started obvious eye
colour change. I look for this every year with Brewer's Blackbirds and I am
basing this mainly on this species, but the times I have been able to look
for this on Great-tailed Grackles it has fit the same pattern. Having said
this, there is no reason to believe that this could not be a first year
female in largely second generation (formative/first basic) plumage. I
can't see how far the moult has come, but maybe the wings are still
juvenile and this is why they look worn?
Thanks Peter for your note and making me clarify some of the points I made.
cheers
Alvaro
Alvaro Jaramillo
chucao(AT)comcast.net
Montara, California
Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
http://www.fieldguides.com/home.htm
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Fwd: Article on Cape Gull (a potential spilt from
Kelp Gull)
From: Phil Davis <pdavis(AT)IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: 22 Mar 2004 2:38am
Birdwg01:
I just posted the message, below, to the local Maryland (USA) listserver.
Many of you are probably already aware of this, but if not , FYI ...
Phil
>To: MDOSPREY(AT)home.ease.lsoft.com
>From: Phil Davis <pdavis(AT)ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: Article on Cape Gull (a potential spilt from Kelp Gull)
>
>MD Osprey:
>
>The latest issue of "Birding World" (a UK publication, not the US
>"Birder's World") has an excellent article in it featuring the Cape Gull
>that was present in Paris during early 1995. Cape Gull is the South
>African form of Kelp Gull. The senior author of the paper is Frederic
>Jiguet who extensively studied the Kelp Gull and in another paper proposed
>that Kelp Gull be split into five species, including Cape Gull.
>
>This article feature lots of photos (including a half-page photo of our
>"Shrimpy"), a map of Kelp Gull distribution and vagrancy (yes, there is a
>dot for the Sandgates, MD bird) and a two-page plate with paintings of 33
>different birds--both standing and in flight--of the five different
>species that he advocates be split from Kelp Gull and four regional
>variations of the (nominate) South American Kelp Gull. Also included on
>the plate is Great Black-backed Gull, Baltic Gull (a subspecies/split of
>Lesser Black-backed Gull) and a presumed Greater Black-backed x Lesser
>Black-backed hybrid. The Maryland Kelp Gull has it's own illustration on
>this plate, as well as the Barbardos "Kelp Gull" (a presumed Cape Gull).
>
>This is an excellent article, however, you will want to see it in color,
>not a b&w photocopy.
>
>The citation is: Jiguet, Frederic and Pierre Defos du Rau, illustrated by
>Sebastian Reeber. 2004. A Cape Gull in Paris - a new European Bird.
>Birding World 17(2):62-70.
>
>BTW, Birding World is an excellent journal. It's tag line is, "Europe's
>premier monthly magazine for keen birdwatchers."
>
>More information on the journal can be found here ...
>
> http://www.birdingworld.freeserve.co.uk/y_index.htm
>
>(Usual disclaimers)
>
>Phil
>
>===================================================
>Phil Davis, Secretary
>MD/DC Records Committee
>2549 Vale Court
>Davidsonville, Maryland 21035 USA
>301-261-0184
>mailto:PDavis(AT)ix.netcom.com
>
>MD/DCRC Web site: http://www.MDBirds.org/mddcrc/rcindex.html
>===================================================
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Grackle sp. in Alabama
From: Keith Arnold <kaarnold(AT)TAMU.EDU>
Date: 22 Mar 2004 1:25pm
Having watched Great-tails for 35+ years in Texas [and Boat-tails] for a lesser
part of that time], I am very familiar with "No-tailed Grackles" as they
commonly are called by birders in this state. As Tony states, this is an annual
phenomenon. I also concur with Tony about the likelihood of a Great-tail over
a Boat-tail; the former will travel xonsiderable distances in migration
Keith Arnold
WFSC TAMU
College Station
>>> <GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM> 03/22/04 12:02AM >>>
Hi all:
Since Peter brought it up, I thought that I would relate my experiences with
blackbirds molting rectrices. While I have not kept track over the years, I
have seen 100s (possibly >1000) of instances of blackbirds (particularly Common
Grackles, but also other species, e.g, Red-winged Blackbirds AND Great-tailed
Grackles) flying around in late summer/early fall with no tails. In my first
couple years of birding, I thought that the phenomenon was just chance. But
in my >25 years of birding, I have seen this EVERY fall and on LOTS of birds
every fall. Now, it is certainly not the norm, but it is in no way a rare
phenomenon.
Also, I wrote Steve McConnell privately on my thoughts on why the thing was a
Great-tailed Grackle. I put forward bill shape and size and head pattern
(pale super, particularly) as the main plumage features to support that ID.
However, I also mentioned that a Great-tailed Grackle in AL waters was less
distance from typical range of that species than a torreyi Boat-tailed would
be.
Additionally, Great-tailed is the more migratory of the two species and has a
long history of vagrancy, some times fairly long distance. Boat-tailed really
does seem to stick to the coast (at least in my experience on the east coast)
and it is exceedingly rare more than 25 mi or so from salt water -- though,
undoubtedly, there may be those that will write that the species is somewhat
common in xxxx place that's 26 miles from salt water. Regardless, the main
point
is that a vagrant Great-tailed on an AL oil rig is, in my experience and
opinion, much more likely than is an East Coast Boat-tailed on the same rig. I
realize that birds have wings and do get themselves into some odd places and
that
almost anything can happen, but I think this aspect is an important
consideration.
Enjoy,
Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Another unusual gull at Corpus Christi, TX
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 23 Mar 2004 9:15am
Dear All,
Still enough time this winter to find some weird gulls, and this bugger at
the Corpus Landfill has me wondering:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp47.html
Open to any suggestions!
Cheers,
Martin
PS can anyone provide details of any evidence of hybridization of
*kumlieni* and *smithsonianus*? -thanks.
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Another unusual gull at Corpus Christi, TX
From: Phillip Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 23 Mar 2004 11:30am
Interesting bird. It's not too pale for a pure Thayer's this time
of year, but structurally looks like a Herring (long bill, long
flattish forehead, medium-range primary projection). I think
it's most likely at least part Herring.
I don't think it's necessarily too small or too pale for a Herring
x G-w. The structure, amount of primary web contrast, and
jumbled covert pattern seem typical of birds that appear to be
that mix here on the west coast. At the same time the darker
patterning to the secondary tips contrasting with paler outer
secondary webs seems more like a Glaucous thing, so perhaps
a smith x Glaucous backcross is still a possibility even though
the bill pattern doesn't look like what we think is typical for
that (F1) cross. Can't say much about what a Herring x
Thayer's or other little known possibilites would look like
of course, or rule out a funky leucistic Herring for that matter.
Cheers,
Phil Pickering
Lincoln City, Oregon
philliplc(AT)harborside.com
> Dear All,
> Still enough time this winter to find some weird gulls, and this bugger at
> the Corpus Landfill has me wondering:
> http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp47.html
> Open to any suggestions!
> Cheers,
> Martin
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Least/Little Tern on the Azores 2002
From: Tommy Frandsen <tfwp(AT)TISCALI.DK>
Date: 23 Mar 2004 2:21pm
Hi all
In October 2002, when we was on a bird trip to the Azores.
We went to the island of Flores, here we metan English birdwatcher, Tim
Collins, he told us, that he some days before had located a Little Tern
sp. In the harbour of Santa Cruz.
Later that same day, we saw the bird flying around in the harbour.
I was lucky enough the get some ok shorts of the bird, see them hear,
http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=themes&mode=listpictures&theme_id=8
The bird was at now time heart.
Hope that some can help.
Tommy Frandsen
Poul Ulrik
Denmark
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Another unusual gull at Corpus Christi, TX
From: Steve Hampton <SHAMPTON(AT)OSPR.DFG.CA.GOV>
Date: 24 Mar 2004 12:13pm
Martin,
Nice pics, as usual! This bird looks like several I see here each
winter. It's either a big male Thayer's or a female hybrid of larger
beasts. I agree with Phil it's okay for pure Thayer's (in plumage).
But the bill's on the heavy side and the gon. angle, rounded head, heavy
belly, and small-eyed expression all say Gl-W to me. I'd probably call
this bird a Gl-W x Herring if I saw it here-- and a female at that. For
this time of year, the wings are certainly not too pale for this combo.
Note on the flight shots, focusing on the outer webs only, the pale
panel of the inner Ps, good for Herring. The tail is fine for Gl-W x
Herring, of course.
good birding,
Steve Hampton
________________
Resource Economist
Office of Spill Prevention and Response
California Dept of Fish and Game
PO Box 944209
Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
-----------------------------------
(916) 323-4724 phone
(916) 324-8829 fax
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: inca doves inc.
From: z <zytgiest(AT)POBOX.COM>
Date: 24 Mar 2004 5:38pm
funny thing is that I live less than 1 mile from clait, and have NEVER
seen a single (or multiple) Common ground in the almost 4 years i have
lived here!
i have always hoped to see one in the yard, but have so far been denied
same.
denis
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Another unusual gull at Corpus Christi, TX -
update
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 25 Mar 2004 5:28am
Dear all,
Many thanks to those who have responded on this bird. For some reason I did
not think of a faded THGU while watching it in the field - the "feel"
seemed wrong for that taxon. I've added some better-detail images to the
web page, showing some marbling patterning in the feathers of the tail,
greater coverts, and lower scaps:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp47.html
- scroll to the bottom of the page. Can a pure THGU show such marbling, or
are these signs of introgression from a true white-winged gull?
Thanks,
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Emberiza ID-problem
From: Peter Nilsson <peter(AT)MEDIT.SE>
Date: 25 Mar 2004 6:53am
Friends
I caught an Emberiza in Sweden in August 2003.
Appreciate comments regarding the bird/species.
Pictures on the bird are found at:
http://www.communique.se/medit/aves/emberiza/
Regards
Peter Nilsson - Pitea, Sweden
http://www.communique.se/medit/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Another unusual gull at Corpus Christi, TX -
update
From: Phillip Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 25 Mar 2004 9:16am
> http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp47.html
> - scroll to the bottom of the page. Can a pure THGU show such marbling,
or
> are these signs of introgression from a true white-winged gull?
Not sure about the exact pattern of the marbling on this bird, but
some Thayer's certainly show wedges of barring/marbling on the
rects, most extensive on the edge of the outermost. On at least
some Thayer's marbling in the tail seems to become more apparent
as it fades, so perhaps many/most Thayer's have extensive marbling,
underlying and normally largely hidden by greater pigment saturation
than is present in true white-winged gulls.
That said, I would not be comfortable with ID as Thayer's. The
forehead seems too long and flat with a very shallow forehead
bill angle in all the images, the bill proportionately long, and the
patterning on the lesser/median coverts atypically jumbled
and irregular. Also, in the close up of the spread wing tip I
would normally expect to see at least slightly more web
contrast on the outer primaries than is apparent.
Cheers,
Phil
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Something to snipe at
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 25 Mar 2004 1:15pm
Dear all,
I photographed this snipe today:
http://www.martinreid.com/snipe25.html
- I'd really appreciate some prompt feedback on it - thanks!
Martin
Martin Reid
Fort Worth, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Wisconsin gull
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 26 Mar 2004 8:39am
We would like comments on a first basic gull initially considered a
Thayer's found in southern Wisconsin in early February. It is the chocolate
brown bird present in the foursome shots; you will of course note the first
basic Kumlien's in this group as well.
John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
>
> http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gull01.jpg
>
> http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gull02.jpg
>
> http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gull03.jpg
>
> http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gull04.jpg
>
> http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gullid01.jpg
>
> http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gullid02.jpg
>
> http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gullid03.jpg
>
> http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gullid04.jpg
>
> http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gullid05.jpg
>
> http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gullid06.jpg
>
> http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gullid07.jpg
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Wisconsin gull
From: Phillip Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 26 Mar 2004 10:06am
Does not look like a Thayer's structurally to me- short primary
projection, thick rather than attenuated rear end, again
relatively long flattish forehead with shallow forehead bill
angle, and proportionately smallish eye. Overall it's also
quite bulky, probably extreme for even a male Thayer's.
The overall jizz is more than a little Glaucous-winged-like.
Scaps also seem to be largely 2nd-gen, which I think would
be at least somewhat atypical for Thayer's in Feb, if not quite
atypical.
The head shape, chunky body shape, and filled-in, even-colored
look, combined with the somewhat Thayer's-like primary
pattern and pronounced pale inner primary window are quite
suggestive of Herring x G-w. I think this is one of the best
extralimital candidates for that mix I've seen posted.
Cheers,
Phil Pickering
Lincoln City, Oregon
philliplc(AT)harborside.com
> > http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gull01.jpg
> >
> > http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gull02.jpg
> >
> > http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gull03.jpg
> >
> > http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gull04.jpg
> >
> > http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gullid01.jpg
> >
> > http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gullid02.jpg
> >
> > http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gullid03.jpg
> >
> > http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gullid04.jpg
> >
> > http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gullid05.jpg
> >
> > http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gullid06.jpg
> >
> > http://personalpages.tds.net/~mmcdowell/gullid07.jpg
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Wisconsin gull
From: GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 26 Mar 2004 1:15pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi all:
But what does everyone think about the muddy-colored tertials on the "Iceland
Gull?"
Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Wisconsin gull
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 26 Mar 2004 2:14pm
John Idzikowski:> We would like comments on a first basic gull initially
considered a
> Thayer's found in southern Wisconsin in early February. It is the
chocolate
> brown bird present in the foursome shots; you will of course note the
first
> basic Kumlien's in this group as well.<
What, in your opinion, is the pale bird John?
Norman
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Wisconsin gull
From: Steve Hampton <SHAMPTON(AT)OSPR.DFG.CA.GOV>
Date: 26 Mar 2004 3:41pm
I agree with Phil on this. The bird is entirely reminiscent of
Glaucous-winged Gull. The bill shape, covert pattern, solid tail with
hardly a mark on the outermost webs, bulk and jizz, head shape, etc. all
say Gl-W to me. Probably a female based on relative bill and body size
compared to adjacent gulls. Definitely not Thayer's. Some may even
consider this within range of pure Gl-W. However, the primaries are a
bit dark, and the pale window on the inner Ps (with interesting
sub-terminal markings), and the pale base of the bill all suggest the
most likely candidate here is Gl-W x Herring.
The pale bird is clearly somewhere between thayeri and glaucoides, and
I'll leave it at that!
good birding,
Steve Hampton
________________
Resource Economist
Office of Spill Prevention and Response
California Dept of Fish and Game
PO Box 944209
Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
-----------------------------------
(916) 323-4724 phone
(916) 324-8829 fax
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Wiscosnin gull
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 26 Mar 2004 6:41pm
Subject: Re: Wisconsin gull
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm AT wxs.nl>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:07:46 +0100
John Idzikowski:> We would like comments on a first basic gull initially
considered a
> Thayer's found in southern Wisconsin in early February. It is the
chocolate
> brown bird present in the foursome shots; you will of course note the
first
> basic Kumlien's in this group as well.<
What, in your opinion, is the pale bird John?
Norman
____________
The bird seems intermediate in saturation of browns, structure and degree of
lacy patterning on the terts. between Thayer's and a classic, Baffin Is.
Kumlien's. Based on how little we really know about the progression of a
given subadult plumage to a definitive adult plumage (that we then use to
define these 2 primarily by wingtip pattern absent here) I like to err on
the conservative side with subadults. I'd call this a Kumlien's based on my
tentative acceptance of the feel-good "hybrid-swarm" theory of Weir, McGowan
and Kitchener where a bird that is not confidently a Thayer's (or
geographically a nominate Iceland) would be dumped in the variable Kumlien's
designation by default; others have called these Thayer's-Kumlien's
intergrades or hybrids.
John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Wiscosnin gull
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 27 Mar 2004 5:40am
> What, in your opinion, is the pale bird John?
> Norman
John Idzikowski wrote:> The bird seems intermediate in saturation of browns,
structure and degree of
> lacy patterning on the terts. between Thayer's and a classic, Baffin Is.
> Kumlien's. Based on how little we really know about the progression of a
> given subadult plumage to a definitive adult plumage (that we then use to
> define these 2 primarily by wingtip pattern absent here) I like to err on
> the conservative side with subadults. I'd call this a Kumlien's based on
my
> tentative acceptance of the feel-good "hybrid-swarm" theory of Weir,
McGowan
> and Kitchener where a bird that is not confidently a Thayer's (or
> geographically a nominate Iceland) would be dumped in the variable
Kumlien's
> designation by default; others have called these Thayer's-Kumlien's
> intergrades or hybrids.
Thanks John, for some recent 1st winter Icelands have a look at
www.dutchbirding.nl and go to picture gallery.
Cheers, Norman
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Wiscosnin gull
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 27 Mar 2004 7:19am
I think that we can assume that the Dutchbirding Icelands linked below are
nominates. Peter Adriaens also has a very nice site of Newfoundland
Kumlien's at-
http://www.aerc.be/KumliensGull/index.htm
The Wisconsin Gulls Site has a few Kumlien's as well as Thayer's-
http://birds.excelcomm.com/gullpage/index.asp?id=ICGU
John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:40 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Wiscosnin gull
> > What, in your opinion, is the pale bird John?
> > Norman
>
> John Idzikowski wrote:> The bird seems intermediate in saturation of
browns,
> structure and degree of
> > lacy patterning on the terts. between Thayer's and a classic, Baffin Is.
> > Kumlien's. Based on how little we really know about the progression of a
> > given subadult plumage to a definitive adult plumage (that we then use
to
> > define these 2 primarily by wingtip pattern absent here) I like to err
on
> > the conservative side with subadults. I'd call this a Kumlien's based on
> my
> > tentative acceptance of the feel-good "hybrid-swarm" theory of Weir,
> McGowan
> > and Kitchener where a bird that is not confidently a Thayer's (or
> > geographically a nominate Iceland) would be dumped in the variable
> Kumlien's
> > designation by default; others have called these Thayer's-Kumlien's
> > intergrades or hybrids.
>
>
> Thanks John, for some recent 1st winter Icelands have a look at
> www.dutchbirding.nl and go to picture gallery.
> Cheers, Norman
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Russian request
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 27 Mar 2004 10:03am
It appears that it is impossible to get to the site referred to below.
However Jevgeni has been so kind as to send me all the gull pictures Dr.Yuri
Artukhin made. So if anyone wants them I can send them. Just let me know
please.
Norman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jevgeni Shergalin" <zoolit(AT)hotmail.com>
To: <BirdsinRussia(AT)yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 4:24 PM
Subject: [BirdsinRussia] Unidentified Gulls in the Bering Sea
> Dear friends,
>
> 9 photographs of two unidentified gulls are placed in the chapter "Photos"
> of our site http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/BirdsinRussia/lst that
> were taken by friend of mine Dr.Yuri Artukhin at the end of 2003 in the
> Bering Sea. From the beginning Yuri thought that these gulls might be the
> Common Gulls but later he has begun to suspect their possible belonging to
> some North-American gull species. Thus Yuri will be grateful to anybody
with
> experience in identification of East-Asian and North-American Gulls, who
> will help him to identify these birds.
> Any comments remarks and judgements are appreciated either via our list or
> directly to Dr.Yuri Artukhin's email artukhin(AT)mail.iks.ru
>
> With best regards
>
> Jevgeni Shergalin zoolit(AT)hotmail.com http://my.tele2.ee/birds/
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BirdsinRussia/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Russian request
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 27 Mar 2004 7:36pm
I have posted the 2 Bering Sea gulls; please address all comments to the
listserv and not me-
http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/gulls/Larus1a.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/gulls/Larus1b.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/gulls/Larus1c.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/gulls/Larus1d.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/gulls/Larus2a.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/gulls/Larus2b.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/gulls/Larus2c.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/gulls/Larus2f.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/~idzikoj/gulls/Larus2g.jpg
The numbering and lettering is consistent with that in the much longer
labels, shortened here.
John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 10:52 AM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Russian request
> It appears that it is impossible to get to the site referred to below.
> However Jevgeni has been so kind as to send me all the gull pictures
Dr.Yuri
> Artukhin made. So if anyone wants them I can send them. Just let me know
> please.
> Norman
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Russian request
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 27 Mar 2004 10:13pm
At 08:28 PM 3/27/2004 -0600, John Idzikowski wrote:
>I have posted the 2 Bering Sea gulls; please address all comments to the
>listserv and not me-
I don't remember the question, was there one with regards to these Russian
photos? Are these not Kamchatka Gulls? Larus canus kamchatkaensis.
cheers
Al
Alvaro Jaramillo
chucao(AT)comcast.net
Montara, California
Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
http://www.fieldguides.com/home.htm
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