 |
|
|
|
|
ID-FRONTIERS for October 1-9, 2004
[ Prev Week
| Next Week
| Calendar Month
| ID-FRONTIERS Info
]
|
Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
|
| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Re: RFI: eye color on adult-type LBBGs | Bert-Jan Luijendijk | Fri, 1 Oct 2004 | 11:58am |
| Baueri Bar-tailed Godwit: transoceanic migration | Angus Wilson | Fri, 1 Oct 2004 | 12:27pm |
| Connecticut "Snowy" Plover vs Kentish Plover ID | Julian Hough | Sat, 2 Oct 2004 | 1:36pm |
| Canada Goose/ Cackling Goose | Richard Stern | Sat, 2 Oct 2004 | 8:39pm |
| Re: [UKBN] What hybrid goose? (fwd) | Ian Paulsen | Sun, 3 Oct 2004 | 9:38am |
| Re: Connecticut "Snowy" Plover vs Kentish Plover
ID | KACastelein and DJLa | Sun, 3 Oct 2004 | 10:05am |
| Re: Small goose | Richard Stern | Sun, 3 Oct 2004 | 1:44pm |
| small goose in Nova Scotia | Michael L. P. Retter | Sun, 3 Oct 2004 | 5:53pm |
| Re: small goose in Nova Scotia | Kevin McGowan | Mon, 4 Oct 2004 | 5:49am |
| Re: small goose in Nova Scotia | John Idzikowski | Mon, 4 Oct 2004 | 7:13am |
| Re: Connecticut "Snowy" Plover vs Kentish Plover
ID | Peter Wilkinson | Mon, 4 Oct 2004 | 8:52am |
| Italy: Pacific vs. American Golden Plover | Menotti Passarella | Tue, 5 Oct 2004 | 2:19am |
| Marbled or Long-billed Murrelet? | Steve Hampton | Tue, 5 Oct 2004 | 12:15pm |
| European / Pacific Golden-Plover? SC, USA | Nathan Dias | Tue, 5 Oct 2004 | 1:14pm |
| Re: Richardson's Geese | Michael L. P. Retter | Tue, 5 Oct 2004 | 4:07pm |
| Re: European / Pacific Golden-Plover? SC, USA | Julian Hough | Tue, 5 Oct 2004 | 4:37pm |
| CT Snowy Plover;origin & ageing | Julian Hough | Tue, 5 Oct 2004 | 5:00pm |
| Re: Marbled or Long-billed Murrelet? | SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM | Tue, 5 Oct 2004 | 7:50pm |
| Re: BIRDWG01] European / Pacific Golden-Plover?
SC, USA | Martin Reid | Wed, 6 Oct 2004 | 4:45am |
| CT Snowy Plover Age and Origins | Shaibal Mitra | Wed, 6 Oct 2004 | 7:33am |
| Re: CT Snowy Plover Age and Origins | =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ricar | Wed, 6 Oct 2004 | 8:06am |
| Re: CT Snowy Plover Age and Origins | Alvaro Jaramillo | Wed, 6 Oct 2004 | 9:36am |
| Re: CT Snowy Plover Age and Origins | julian hough | Wed, 6 Oct 2004 | 9:53am |
| Re: BIRDWG01] European / Pacific Golden-Plover?
SC, USA | Les Chibana | Wed, 6 Oct 2004 | 10:02am |
| Re: CT Snowy Plover Age and Origins | KACastelein and DJLa | Wed, 6 Oct 2004 | 10:09am |
| Cackling Goose | Ian Paulsen | Thu, 7 Oct 2004 | 8:38am |
| Re: Italy: Pacific vs. American Golden Plover | Hugh McGuinness | Thu, 7 Oct 2004 | 6:55pm |
| Sibley goose thoughts: a response | GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM | Fri, 8 Oct 2004 | 10:28am |
| Re: Canada Goose forms | John Idzikowski | Fri, 8 Oct 2004 | 12:17pm |
| Re: Sibley goose thoughts: a response | Kevin McGowan | Fri, 8 Oct 2004 | 10:51am |
| Honker subsp. | Matt Sharp | Fri, 8 Oct 2004 | 10:59am |
| Re: Italy: Pacific vs. American Golden Plover | Martin Reid | Fri, 8 Oct 2004 | 8:59am |
| Iding borealis and diomedea Cory's | Martin Reid | Fri, 8 Oct 2004 | 5:01pm |
| Re: Italy: Pacific vs. American Golden Plover | julian hough | Fri, 8 Oct 2004 | 9:57am |
| Re: Iding borealis and diomedea Cory's | Angus Wilson | Fri, 8 Oct 2004 | 5:25pm |
| Re: Iding borealis and diomedea Cory's | Julian Hough | Fri, 8 Oct 2004 | 7:39pm |
| Re: Iding borealis and diomedea Cory's | Dick Newell | Sat, 9 Oct 2004 | 1:25am |
| Photos of some interesting Storm-Petrels from
Texas | Martin Reid | Sat, 9 Oct 2004 | 5:02am |
| Re: Photos of some interesting Storm-Petrels from
Texas | Peter Pyle | Sat, 9 Oct 2004 | 9:49am |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
|
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: RFI: eye color on adult-type LBBGs
From: Bert-Jan Luijendijk <bjluijendijk(AT)planet.nl>
Date: 1 Oct 2004 11:58am
Dear Martin,
During the breedingseason of 2003 we have spend much time in
(systematically) describing a number of phenotypic characteristics of many
adult LBBGs (of known age and origin). We determined amongst others the
presence of dark pigments in the iris and it appeared that the birds
described by us frequently showed a variable amount of dark pigments in
iris. I have looked quickly through the records and my rough estimation is
that you should think about 10-20% of the observed birds. Not a scarce
phenomenon I would say.
Unfortunately, we did not note the extent of dark pigment. I recall however
that by far most of the described birds with dark iris pigments did show a
predominantly pale yellow iris. Just a small minority of those birds did
exhibit a predominantly dark iris.
Cheers, Bert-Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Vaughan" <timvaughan(AT)TALK21.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] RFI: eye color on adult-type LBBGs
> Dear all,
> I can agree with Norman - I have never seen a LBBG (graellsi/intermedius)
with a dark iris and I see a lot of LBBG each day.
> Best wishes
> Tim Vaughan
> Seaforth, UK
>
> "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)WXS.NL> wrote:
> Martin Reid asks:> I am seeking help from the Old World to quantify the
> frequency of dark
> > pigments in the iris of adult-type graellsii/intermedius LBBGs. Adult
> > LBBGs normally have pale yellow irides, almost with a whitish quality.
In
> > my time back in the UK I don't recall ever seeing an adult-type LBBG
with
> > dark or darkish eyes. Here in Texas I've seen maybe 50 Adult LBBG-types,
> > and of those that seem typical of graellsii/intermedius all had the
> typical
> > eye color.
> > I'd like to ask those with extensive experience of LBBG to attempt to
> > critically quantify adult eye color:
> > What is the ratio of truly dark-eyed adults: 1:100? 1:500? 1:1,000?
less,
> > even?
> > What is the ratio of birds with some dark speckling on rich yellow
irides:
> > 1:100? 1:500? 1:1,000? less, even?
> > The thrust of my request is to provide a benchmark against which to
> compare
> > these same data from North America, so it would also be of great help to
> > hear from those in Eastern North America on the same subject - thanks!<
>
> Adult LBBG's do not have dark eyes! Never!
> Norman
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Baueri Bar-tailed Godwit: transoceanic migration
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 1 Oct 2004 12:27pm
Re: Baueri subspecies of Bar-tailed Godwit: Separate transoceanic
migration of juveniles and adults.
Although not strictly an identification issue, I thought this request
for information/help would be of interest to many ID-F members.
Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
**********************
Posted to the Waders-L on behalf of Phil Battley
<philbattley(AT)quicksilver.net.nz>
Bar-tailed Godwits are proving somewhat of an enigma in the
Asia-Pacific region this year, and we are putting out a request for
help! Specifically, we would like to know (1) where the bulk of the
Alaskan-staging godwits currently are, and when they got there, and
(2) how many juveniles there are at different sites along the Flyway
in October and November.
In recent years there has been concern about the low proportion of
juveniles seen in staging godwits in western Alaskan and after
migration in New Zealand and Australia. This year, the picture in
Alaska has become more complex. At two sites on the Yukon Delta,
'typical' low proportions of juveniles were recorded in early
September. At another site, however, juveniles outnumbered adults
6:1, and at least 700 juveniles were present. This paints a very
different picture of the apparent productivity of the Alaskan
godwits. But we do not know whether this represents different site
selection by adults and juveniles, or early departures of adults
having left behind a large pool of young birds. Overall,
comparatively small numbers of birds have been located in coastal
Alaska this autumn, and some sites that have held 10,000-30,000 birds
in previous years held almost none. In New Zealand, arrivals in
early-mid September did not seem to be especially large, so we are
wondering if much of the population is still somewhere else that we
do not know about.
So we are desperately keen to hear from anyone who has been out
counting waders along the East Asian-Australasia Flyway where baueri
godwits are found. If anyone has counts from August onwards, we
would love to hear from you, even if it is to report that there are
no godwits! We are particularly keen to hear from counters in Japan
and eastern Australia.
We are also hopeful that we can encourage people to measure age
ratios in their flocks. This is easily done with a telescope, and we
have prepared some instructions on age identification and data
collection that we can email to anyone who could help us with this.
It is likely that most of the godwits left in Alaska at the moment
are juveniles that will soon start migrating south. In previous
years, the first juveniles have been seen in Queensland (Australia)
and New Zealand in the 2nd week of October. As we write a large
storm is brewing in the North Pacific that should be excellent for
helping send godwits on their way. Very little is known of the
migration of young godwits, and while we assume that many migrate
direct to Australia and New Zealand, we have nothing as yet to prove
this. Information on the ages of godwits through eastern Asia would
help piece together a picture of how similar the migration patterns
of adults and juveniles are. And as an added incentive, there are
five young godwits marked with prototype large numbered black flags
on their right tibia. These were caught on the Yukon Delta in early
September, and we await the first sighting with interest!
Many thanks in advance for any help you can give, and we look forward
to hearing from you!
Phil Battley (University of Otago, New Zealand)
Brian McCaffery (Yukon Delta National Wildlife Refuge, Alaska)
Bob Gill (US Geological Survey, Alaska)
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Connecticut "Snowy" Plover vs Kentish Plover ID
From: Julian Hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 2 Oct 2004 1:36pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
A "Snowy"-type Plover was discovered yesterday evening, 1st October at =
Sandy Point, West Haven, CT, USA.
There are only a handful of records of Snowy Plover records in the =
north-eastern states, and currently there is some interest in assigning =
this rare straggler to a particular race. The colour of the upperparts =
basically favour a west coast bird rather than the paler (and less =
migratory?) Gulf coast birds.
The complexity deepens when you consider the possibility of the western =
European race "alexandrinus", colloquially known as Kentish Plover, =
which could possibly make it here to the eastern seabord. Currently, as =
far as I know, there are no proven records of this race occurring in =
North America.
Pictures are at:
http://www.naturescapeimages.net/Snowy/index.htm
The state of moult, remnants of a dark forehead bar and dark loral line =
would seem to indicate an adult moulting into winter plumage.
The long legs and dark loral stripe are good pro-Kentish features. While =
possibly not outside the variation for a western-type Snowy Plover, it =
is such a rarity here that "Kentish" Plover needs to be ruled out, =
especially given the weather patterns recently.=20
Any feedback would be welcome.
Best wishes,
Julian Hough,
CT, USA
jrhough1(AT)snet.net
www.naturescapeimages.net
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Canada Goose/ Cackling Goose
From: Richard Stern <rbstern(AT)NS.SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 2 Oct 2004 8:39pm
Local birders have become aware of A.canadensis interior ("Todd's" Canada
Goose) joining the more common and expected atlantica in inland Nova Scotia
(largely thanks to careful observations and the expertise of Ian McLaren).
Today, at the Windsor (Hants Co.) sewage pond, there were about 200 geese - and
of those that were possible to differentiate, most appeared to be interior.
There was one, however, that was about half to 2/3 the size of either, with a
dusky breast, small head, small stubby bill, and rather prominent but slightly
dusky throat patch - to the 2 of us who observed it seeming to exhibit
characteristics consistent with minima - now split according to the 45th
supplement of the AOU checklist, as one of the forms of Cackling Goose, A.
hutchinsii. I was able to obtain photos of this bird - taken with a Nikon d70
digital SLR, with a Nikkor 80-400mm. vr lens and Kenko 1.4x-tc, in jpeg format,
cropped and sharpened but in no other way altered, and have put them here -
http://www.pbase.com/rb_stern/current_shots&page=4 (the last 4 images). Would
anyone with expertise and experience with this form/ species care to comment on
this bird?
Thanks,
##########
Richard Stern
Kentville, NS
Canada
rbstern(AT)ns.sympatico.ca
##########
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: [UKBN] What hybrid goose? (fwd)
From: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker(AT)ZIPCON.NET>
Date: 3 Oct 2004 9:38am
HI:
FYI
--
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way!"
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 14:30:45 +0200
From: Norman D.van Swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
To: Malcolm Ogilvie <Malcolm(AT)ogilvie.org>, UKBN <ukbirdnet(AT)dcs.bbk.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [UKBN] What hybrid goose?
You'll find a picture of one of our hybrids on www.birdingzeeland.nl click
on foto's, click on 'laatst toegevoegd' , click
on 'Brandgans x ?' (Barnacle x Ross'). My friend Pim Wolf who is involved in
counting the breeding Barnacle's in the Dutch delta has named it Barnacle x
Ross'. Not so strange when you consider that since 1985 each year Ross' has
been recorded and probably up to four individuals may be involved. In April
1991 I found a mixed pair consisting of a male Ross' and a female Barnacle.
A week later the male was still standing at the spot I had found him the
previous week. As it turned out the (2-3 days) dead female Barnacle lay by
his side. A month later I found him in the company of a small group of
Barnacles on the very sandbank where the first 2 pairs of Barnacles bred and
in 2003 a female Ross' was found on infertile eggs amidst 100's of breeding
Barnacle geese. However we never saw any Ross'with goslings.
Malcolm's observation that Blue Ross' really are hybrid Ross'x blue phase
Lesser Snow Goose is very interesting and since mitochondrialDNA studies
showed that no distinction could be made between Greater and Lesser Snow
Goose on the one hand and Ross' on the other, one wonders if the term hybrid
is a valid one in this case!
Norman
From: "Graham Etherington" <BritishBirder(AT)gmail.com>> The goose photographed
by Andy Kane is a Ross's X Pink-foot hybrid.
> Presumably the same bird was in North Norfolk for much of last winter
> and has obviously returned for a second year.
> Some more photos of the bird from last winter are at:
> http://groups.msn.com/grahametherington/hybridrosspink.msnw
> In message <003a01c4a7b7$ffede110$478479c3@computername>, Norman D.van
> Swelm <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl> writes
> >On Surfbirds, Andy Kane has published some pictures of an unusual goose
> >(for address see below. Among the birds of our newly established Barnacle
> >Goose colony in the Dutch delta we have several birds that are rather
> >similar. They are often named 'blue' Ross' Goose but more likely are
> >hybrids. Any ideas?
> >> Here is the Surfbirds Daily Digest of Gallery Photos uploaded today.
Quick
> >Links to Galleries: http://www.surfbirds.com/Rarities/rarindex.shtml
> >>
> >> Species: Goose sp?
> >> Date: 25/9/04
> >> Location: Waxham
> >> County: Norfolk
> >> Name: Andy KANE<
Malcolm Ogilvie writes:> A hybrid of some kind, probably with Pinkfoot in
it.
> According to 'Birds of North America', there is no such thing as a blue
> phase of Ross's Goose. The most likely origin of the few specimens that
> have been claimed is that they are hybrids between a Ross's and a blue
> phase Lesser Snow Goose. Certainly, the three skins I examined at the
> University of California many years ago were wholly unconvincing as pure
> Ross's, a view which didn't go down well with the goose biologist who
> showed them to me and who had collected at least two of them himself!
>
> Several years ago, there was a hybrid Pinkfoot X Barnacle here which was
> dark grey-brown with a white head and I can recall an excitable young
> birder coming to find me and telling me that it was a blue phase Ross's
> Goose on the strength of the illustration in Madge & Burn's 'Wildfowl'
> which had then recently been published. It wasn't. You could actually
> make out the outline of the dark breast of the Barnacle, which is an
> easy way of discerning Barnacle in most hybrids.
>
> I don't know where Hilary Burn found the material from which to do her
> painting - possibly photos of the skins I saw in California.
>
> Returning to Andy Kane's photos, neither the head shape nor the bill say
> Ross's to me.<
+-----------------------------------------------+
| To unsubscribe from ukbirdnet, send e-mail to |
| ukbirdnet-request(AT)dcs.bbk.ac.uk |
| with the single word |
| unsubscribe |
| in the body of the message. |
+-----------------------------------------------+
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Connecticut "Snowy" Plover vs Kentish Plover
ID
From: KACastelein and DJLauten <birdsong(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 3 Oct 2004 10:05am
Hello Julian (!), others,
First, let me say that I have absolutely zero experience with Kentish
Plover, and I have never really studied illustrations of them to really
get a good feel how different they are (except in some obvious alternate
plumage ways). For those who don't know, I have studied Snowy Plovers
on Oregon for 8 years, so I have looked at hundreds of these cuties in
detail. And there lies the problem: the variation is, especially at
this time of year, incredible. Just glancing at the pictures, I would
have no idea if this is a male or female. I have seen bold males, bold
females, and not so bold males and females at all times of the year. We
have females that look ghostly all year long, never seeming to molt into
a darker plumage in summer. I have seen boldly pattern males at all
times of years, including late summer and fall. I have seen birds as
pale as ghosts turn into spectacularly bold alternate plumage males.
Are you getting the idea yet? One summer we found a female bird that we
first ID'ed as a Wilson's Plover because it was so much browner than any
other Snowy around it. But it was a Snowy, and I wondered at the time
if it was truly one of "ours" - ie, a West Coast nivosus. I have seen
some males so sandy pale gray color that they look silvery. I would be
very interested to hear from Europeans as well as Floridians as to what
they have seen in terms of variation. Maybe there is some features on
this bird that would be point to a specific subspecies; I'd love to
know. But I would have to say that I am skeptical this can be really
ID'ed to subspecies correctly - I think there is too much variation -
especially in terms of plumage - in terms of morphometrics, well that
may be revealing, but without the bird in hand, I'm not sure we'll ever
really know. Hope I'm not raining on the parade! : )
PS - the best sexing method we have: the color bands that each bird wears!
Cheers
Dave Lauten
Bandon OR
birdsong(AT)harborside.com
Julian Hough wrote:
> A "Snowy"-type Plover was discovered yesterday evening, 1st October at
> Sandy Point, West Haven, CT, USA.
> There are only a handful of records of Snowy Plover records in the
> north-eastern states, and currently there is some interest in assigning
> this rare straggler to a particular race. The colour of the upperparts
> basically favour a west coast bird rather than the paler (and less
> migratory?) Gulf coast birds.
> The complexity deepens when you consider the possibility of the western
> European race "alexandrinus", colloquially known as Kentish Plover,
> which could possibly make it here to the eastern seabord. Currently, as
> far as I know, there are no proven records of this race occurring in
> North America.
>
> Pictures are at:
>
> http://www.naturescapeimages.net/Snowy/index.htm
>
> The state of moult, remnants of a dark forehead bar and dark loral line
> would seem to indicate an adult moulting into winter plumage.
> The long legs and dark loral stripe are good pro-Kentish features. While
> possibly not outside the variation for a western-type Snowy Plover, it
> is such a rarity here that "Kentish" Plover needs to be ruled out,
> especially given the weather patterns recently.
>
> Any feedback would be welcome.
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
> Julian Hough,
> CT, USA
> jrhough1(AT)snet.net <mailto:jrhough1(AT)snet.net>
>
> www.naturescapeimages.net <http://www.naturescapeimages.net>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Small goose
From: Richard Stern <rbstern(AT)NS.SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 3 Oct 2004 1:44pm
Hello again,
I'd like to thank people for their interest and helpful info. re: that small
"Canada" goose I posted yesterday. The consensus seems to be that it's a
Richardson's Cackling Goose, B. hutchinsii, but probably not a minima. As an
amateur who only has easy access to web material and field guides, but not the
actual taxonomic literature on this, I find the taxonomy of the new split rather
confusing and open to different interpretation by different people (e.g. some
of the sites put them all in the genus Anser)! I don't suppose it will remain
static for long. I removed 3 other pages of images from the pbase gallery I use
and put them elsewhere, so the goose images are now here -
http://www.pbase.com/rb_stern/current_shots .
Again, thanks to all for your help.
##########
Richard Stern
Kentville, NS
Canada
rbstern(AT)ns.sympatico.ca
##########
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: small goose in Nova Scotia
From: "Michael L. P. Retter" <mlretter(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 3 Oct 2004 5:53pm
I would have to disagree that the bird pictured at
http://www.pbase.com/rb_stern/current_shots is a
Richardson's Goose (Branta hutchinsii hutchinsii)--at
least, I feel it's not a textbook one. In particular,
the bird currently being discussed has a darker breast
than those around it, and one that isnt' any grayer.
That alone is a huge red flag for me. And, to me, the
bird doesn't seem that small.
I am not familiar with a subspecies called atlantica,
but given the confusion running rampant in this
assembledge, I wouldn't be surprised if I'd missed
something.
I suspect the bird might be an intergrade between
hutchnsii and taverneri or a Canada X Cackling Goose
hybrid (B. c. parvipes x B. c. hutchinsii). This
would explain the darker plumage and the larger size.
It appears too petite for a pure B. c. parvipes to me.
Another possibility is a pure light-end taverneri.
Or, just perhaps, it is within the range of variation
for a pure B. h. hutchinsii; however, I do not beleive
so. I see a few birds like this every year in
Illinois, and I feel they are outside the range of
variation for Richardson's Goose.
Following my closing are some criteria for identifying
Richardson's Goose that I typed up and sent to ID
Frontiers two springs ago. Those who have already
read them may want to stop reading now.
Michael L. P. Retter
Bloomington-Normal, IL
mlretter AT yahoo.com
--------------
Here are my thoughts on Angus Wilson's 4 criteria for
Richardson's Goose
(Branta canadensis [sic] hutchinsii). This is a very
interesting taxon that I
have grown fond of over the years for a couple
reasons. One--it's pretty
much restricted to the interior (big flocks are
anyway), so it's one of the
few birds we from mid-continent get to see that those
on the coast don't. I
routinely see triple-digit flocks of these little guys
in Illinois every
season, and I never get tired of them. Why? Reason
number two--they're so
cute!
On to Angus's 4 criteria . . .
1. "A smaller bird with relatively short neck and
small, stubby bill."
Yes, this is absolutely necessary; however,
Richardson's will stretch their
necks out on occasion, especially when alert. I have a
picture of now the
neck length can appear different at
http://www.iwu.edu/~sander/mretter/strange_goose.htm
It's 4th from the
top. [I now think the 'mystery' bird on that page is a
Lesser Snow X
Richardson's; thank you to the IDF folks for all your
help on that one.]
The unique head shape and stubby bill on all
Richardson's is nicely shown in
the 3rd photo from the bottom at
http://www.iwu.edu/~sander/mretter/strange_goose2.htm
2. "The breast is either silvery or washed light
brown."
Yes, Richies have very pale breasts, often approaching
whitish, but some are
slightly darker. I have never seen one with a medium
to dark breast.
Richies seem to be grayer on the breast as well,
lacking the warm brown
tones present on many larger Canadas. This should
easily separate them from
B. h. minima.
3. "The white chin patch is not bisected with a gular
stripe."
I admit that I have not specifically looked for this.
Sorry.
4. "Often, but not always, the neck stocking is
separated from the breast by
a narrow white collar."
This is the one point I take issue with. In my
experience ONLY about 25-35%
of Richies have the white collar, and when they do, it
is usually confined
to the ventral half of the bird, forming a "white
frontal crescent" between
the black neck and pale breast. Angus asked "Are we
being too strict in
requiring all four points?" My answer: "Absolutely!"
So, while the neck
"collar" is a bonus point for any possible
Richardson's, it is by no means
necessary as 65-75% of ‘hutchinsii' simply don't have
this mark.
Angus mentioned that "We often find small birds with
darkish breasts and
small bills but lacking the white collar. Are these
also _hutchinsii_?"
I would say no. I've never seen a dark-breasted
Richie. I would speculate
that such birds are vargrant Cacklers (minima)or
'taverneri', or at least have some
blood from one of those two taxa.
Now onto the web pics. I looked at
http://www.oceanwanderers.com/RichardsonsCAGO.html at
length. I must say
that I do not think either is a Richardson's Goose--at
least not a pure one.
The main reason is that Angus's first criterion is not
met. In my opinion
the birds are not small enough. Take a look at the
second picture from the
top at
http://www.iwu.edu/~sander/mretter/strange_goose2.htm
This is the
kind of extreme difference that Richardson's should
show when seen next to
'interior/maxima.' Richies are scarcely larger than
Mallards. Secondly,
the bills are much too long on the NY birds. I would
not label such birds
as 'hutchinsii' in Illinois. I do however see a couple
birds like this
every season. What are they? I think they are
intergrades with
'parvipes/taverneri,' but this is only a guess. It
would make sense that
these darker, larger Richie-like CAGOs are intergrades
with 'taverneri' as
this ssp is supposed to be darker-breasted.
The bird at http://www.martinreid.com/cago2.html looks
perfect for a Richie
to me.
I agree that the issue of "Canada Goose" [taxa] is not
studied or
discussed nearly enough, contributing to the
confusion.
I have one more criterion for Angus to consider.
Contrary to the Sibley
Guide, Richies have a very distinctive voice, much
different than and easily
told from the honking of large Canadas. A flock of
Richies produces a
distinctive chorus of thin high-piched cackles, much
like a flock of Ross'
or Cackling Geese. I'm not sure though if a lone
vagrant bird would do much
vocalizing, so outside the normal range of
'hutchinsii,' this may not be
useful. On the other hand if your potential vagrant
Richie went "keek!"
that would surely be helpful in solidifying the
identification.
=====
========================
Michael L. P. Retter
Bloomington-Normal
McLean Co, Illinois, USA
mlretter AT yahoo.com
309.824.7317
========================
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: small goose in Nova Scotia
From: Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 4 Oct 2004 5:49am
At 05:43 PM 10/3/2004 -0700, Michael L. P. Retter wrote:
>I would have to disagree that the bird pictured at
>http://www.pbase.com/rb_stern/current_shots is a
>Richardson's Goose (Branta hutchinsii hutchinsii)--at
>least, I feel it's not a textbook one. In particular,
>the bird currently being discussed has a darker breast
>than those around it, and one that isnt' any grayer.
>That alone is a huge red flag for me. And, to me, the
>bird doesn't seem that small.
I'd have to agree here. This bird seems like a perfect candidate to be a
runted interior goose, as discussed at
<http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/rouge_river/goose.html>. The back color
seems just the same as the birds around it, and it doesn't show the head
shape apparent on Michael Retter's shots of Richardson's Geese. The fact
it came in with a bunch of interior geese also is suspicous.
Kevin
*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: small goose in Nova Scotia
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 4 Oct 2004 7:13am
This small Canada from Milwaukee is pictured with giant Canadas. Its
call was squeaky and higher pitched than that of nearby giants or
interiors. Is this a runt, intergrade or imperfect Richardson's?
http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/cg.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/cg2.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/cg3.jpg
John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Connecticut "Snowy" Plover vs Kentish Plover
ID
From: Peter Wilkinson <pcwilkinson(AT)CLARA.CO.UK>
Date: 4 Oct 2004 8:52am
Hi All,
I would be rather surprised if the CT bird were nominate alexandrinus. Over
the years I have seen a few hundred "Kentish" Plovers and cannot recall one
that did not have black(ish) legs. Indeed , apart from all the plumage
differences, leg colour is often a shortcut to picking Kentish out in a
mixed group of Charadrius (Ringed, C. hiaticula and Little Ringed, C.
dubius, having orange-yellow and pinkinsh legs respectively). Shorebirds
says Kentish "mostly" have blackish legs.
Peter Wilkinson
Wheathampstead, Herts, England
pcwilkinson(AT)clara.co.uk
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Italy: Pacific vs. American Golden Plover
From: Menotti Passarella <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT>
Date: 5 Oct 2004 2:19am
Hi all.
A vagrant Plover was discovered by me, Alessio Farioli and other birders in
the Po Delta, NE Italy on 20 September 2004. It was identified as a Pacific
Golden Plover. Since our experience with vagrant Plovers is very poor, maybe
this was a wrong statement. By revising the field marks, thank to a set of
photographs, we are now able to propose a new identification: American
Golden Plover, first for Italy if accepted.
According to McGuinness 2003 and Johnson & Johnson 2004, the primary
structural characters that distinguish American from Pacific are shorter
tibias, shorter bill, longer primary extension beyond tail and tertials,
shorter tertials.
In this bird, the relatively short tibia brings the knee closer to the body,
while in Pacific Golden Plover the knee is almost mid-way between the body
and the ground (McGuinness 2003). The length of its bill if projected
backwards falls whitin the eye, whereas in Pacific it usually falls well
behind the eye. The primary extension appears consistent with American.
Photos show a relatively long extension of the primaries beyond the
tertials, the latter appearing relatively short.
These are some photos of the vagrant Plover:
http://guideltapo.blog.tiscali.it/bd1626607/
http://birdingitalynet.blog.tiscali.it/nj1608308/
http://www.fotolog.it/birdwatching/foto.asp?f=12398
http://www.fotolog.it/birdwatching/foto.asp?f=11462
Other photos would be probable available in a few days.
References:
McGuinness 2003:
http://www.nybirds.org/Publications/KB53no4_PacGoldPlover.htm
Johnson & Johnson 2004:
http://www.eurobirding.com/birdingmagazines/artinfo.php?id=7508
Other tips about "long winged Pacific Golden Plovers":
http://www.rarebirdspain.net/arbsi011.htm
http://www.rarebirdspain.net/arbsi012.htm
Cheers
Menotti Passarella
info(AT)birdingitaly.com
www.birdingitaly.net
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Marbled or Long-billed Murrelet?
From: Steve Hampton <SHAMPTON(AT)OSPR.DFG.CA.GOV>
Date: 5 Oct 2004 12:15pm
Yesterday, a beached bird survey group found a dead alcid in Santa Cruz
County, CA.
It has some characteristics of Long-billed Murrelet.
See photo at:
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/6181/MAMULBMU.htm
I am told that the light underwing coverts and AHY plumage probably
mean that the bird is a one-year-old MAMU (i.e., born in the 2003
breeding season). Chris Thompson of Washington DNR (now University of
Wisconsin, Madison) gave a talk a couple of years at PSG showing that
one-year old can be identified by their white underwing coverts.
I would appreciate comments.
thanks,
Steve Hampton
________________
Resource Economist
Office of Spill Prevention and Response
California Dept of Fish and Game
PO Box 944209
Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
-----------------------------------
(916) 323-4724 phone
(916) 324-8829 fax
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: European / Pacific Golden-Plover? SC, USA
From: Nathan Dias <offshorebirder(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 5 Oct 2004 1:14pm
This past Sunday a group of us had a very interesting Golden-Plover at the
famous Savannah Spoil Site in extreme southeastern South Carolina, USA. We
watched the bird at ~60 meters for about an hour, noting the underwings
briefly when it preened and then as it flew.
Our initial field ID was European Golden-Plover (Pluvialis apricaria), due
to:
- extremely short bill (profile view: head length = nearly 2.5 times bill
length)
- wingtips that ever-so-minutely extended beyond tail tip (often looked
even with tail tip)
- white underwing coverts and gray trailing edge of underwing
- yellow wash over mantle, scapulars, nape, crown, coverts, throat &
breast plus a whitish belly and dark crisp barring under the yellow wash on
the flanks
We lacked a complete arsenal of field guides & literature, so I don't think
any of us paid great attention to leg length (tibia length). We may have
over-relied on the Sibley Guide which shows a more pronounced supercilium
than other resources.
I also understand that the appearance of whitish underwing coverts can be
caused by molt or lighting conditions. However, our brief views sure had
distinct and well-defined gray trailing edges to the underwings with very
white-looking underwing coverts.
At any rate, I am now wondering if the bird was perhaps a juvenile Pacific
Golden-Plover (Pluvialis fulva).
If people would care to weigh in, I have posted some digiscoped photos
(taken by J.B. Hines) at:
http://home.comcast.net/~afdias/GoldPlov-right.JPG
and
http://home.comcast.net/~afdias/GoldPlov-left.JPG
and
http://home.comcast.net/~afdias/GoldPlov-back.JPG
If people email me off-list, I shall compile the answers and post the
results (or email to the list if you prefer). I may put more photos on the
following web page soon: http://home.comcast.net/~afdias/
Nathan Dias
Charleston, South Carolina
offshorebirder(AT)yahoo.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Richardson's Geese
From: "Michael L. P. Retter" <mlretter(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 5 Oct 2004 4:07pm
I thought I'd post this to the list in case others
were interested.
-------
Kevin,
Regarding head shape, it's very angular--almost
square, with one point just above the bill, and
another above the eye towards the rear of the crown.
Consequently, the head appears flat-topped. This
effect is nicely shown in these pictures
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mlretter/detail?.dir=56b4&.dnm=9dac.jpg
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mlretter/detail?.dir=56b4&.dnm=0143.jpg&.src=ph
Your 2 March 2002 and your 15 Dec 2000 birds have this
head shape. They are farily consistent with
Richardson's Goose in other aspects as well, in my
opinion. However, the bill of the 2002 bird seems a
bit long. I would be hesitant to call this bird a
pure Richardson's. The pair from 2000 looks good for
Richardson's, though.
Your 26 Sep 2004 bird looks more like taverneri to me.
It certainly is not nominate hutchinsii. The head
shape is wrong, the bill is too long, and the breast
is way too dark.
Also, based on my observations, on nominate hutchinsii
the white cheek patch tends to expand below the eye.
It contracts on this bird.
I hope this has helped.
Best wishes,
Michael Retter
Bloomington-Normal, IL
--- Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)cornell.edu> wrote:
> Michael,
>
> On your web page you state "Also note the unique
> head shape I associate
> Richardson's Goose."
>
> Would you mind describing what you see here? How
> does this look different
> from other geese to you? Is it the slightly bulging
> chin or the blocky
> back of the head?
>
> What do you think of the head shapes of the small
> geese I have posted at
> <http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/cackling_goose.htm>;?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
>
*****************************************************
> Kevin J. McGowan
> Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
> 159 Sapsucker Woods Road
> Ithaca, NY 14850
> 607/254-2432
> fax 607/254-2111
> kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
> http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
>
>
>
>
=====
========================
Michael L. P. Retter
Bloomington-Normal
McLean Co, Illinois, USA
mlretter AT yahoo.com
309.824.7317
========================
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: European / Pacific Golden-Plover? SC, USA
From: Julian Hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 5 Oct 2004 4:37pm
Nathan et al,
From the pictures, and it is difficult to discern actual position of wings
and tail etc, it looks like a typical juv. American Golden Plover. On one
picture, it looks as though there is considerable amount of exposed
primaries beyond the tertials, a better fit for AGP than any other species.
As for Eurasian Golden Plover, the jizz, and pale supercilium seem at odds
with my recollection of Eurasian Golden.
The upperparts seem to show obvious golden spangling, as is often the case
with juv. AGP, but nothing else suggests anything but AGP.
Sorry if this sounds negative, and I hope I'm wrong (!)
Sincerely,
Julian Hough,
CT, USA
jrhough1(AT)snet.net
www.naturescapeimages.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathan Dias" <offshorebirder(AT)YAHOO.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 4:04 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] European / Pacific Golden-Plover? SC, USA
> This past Sunday a group of us had a very interesting Golden-Plover at the
> famous Savannah Spoil Site in extreme southeastern South Carolina, USA.
We
> watched the bird at ~60 meters for about an hour, noting the underwings
> briefly when it preened and then as it flew.
>
> Our initial field ID was European Golden-Plover (Pluvialis apricaria), due
> to:
> - extremely short bill (profile view: head length = nearly 2.5 times bill
> length)
> - wingtips that ever-so-minutely extended beyond tail tip (often looked
> even with tail tip)
> - white underwing coverts and gray trailing edge of underwing
> - yellow wash over mantle, scapulars, nape, crown, coverts, throat &
> breast plus a whitish belly and dark crisp barring under the yellow wash
on
> the flanks
>
> We lacked a complete arsenal of field guides & literature, so I don't
think
> any of us paid great attention to leg length (tibia length). We may have
> over-relied on the Sibley Guide which shows a more pronounced supercilium
> than other resources.
>
> I also understand that the appearance of whitish underwing coverts can be
> caused by molt or lighting conditions. However, our brief views sure had
> distinct and well-defined gray trailing edges to the underwings with very
> white-looking underwing coverts.
>
> At any rate, I am now wondering if the bird was perhaps a juvenile Pacific
> Golden-Plover (Pluvialis fulva).
>
> If people would care to weigh in, I have posted some digiscoped photos
> (taken by J.B. Hines) at:
> http://home.comcast.net/~afdias/GoldPlov-right.JPG
> and
> http://home.comcast.net/~afdias/GoldPlov-left.JPG
> and
> http://home.comcast.net/~afdias/GoldPlov-back.JPG
>
> If people email me off-list, I shall compile the answers and post the
> results (or email to the list if you prefer). I may put more photos on
the
> following web page soon: http://home.comcast.net/~afdias/
>
> Nathan Dias
> Charleston, South Carolina
> offshorebirder(AT)yahoo.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: CT Snowy Plover;origin & ageing
From: Julian Hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 5 Oct 2004 5:00pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
To all who responded,
Thanks for the informed comments on the Snowy Plover seen in CT this =
past week (and which continues to be a crowd pleaser).
Basically, due to individual and geographical variation it is difficult =
to assign such a lone vagrant to any population, or geographical area, =
especially since the differences between the North American and Eurasian =
birds have such a high degree of overlap.
Dave Lauten, an experienced birder working with Snowy Plovers in Oregon, =
cautioned about the difficulties in sexing Snowy Plovers, and it is =
apparent that there is tremendous variation within North American =
populations as to make it difficult to assign some birds to race.
Until now, I had not seen pictures of the bird's wings, and photos by =
Louis Bevier clearly show the extent of wear on this bird. I agree with =
Louis' comments that the bird's retained feathers are old juvenile =
feathers and thus age the bird as a 2nd cal-yr rather than a moulting =
adult. Logically, as Louis also points out, it would seem that such a =
bird would not be in any "flight worthy" state to make any long distance =
movements, especially across the Atlantic, and would suggest that the =
bird is more likely of North American origin.
It has been a great and fascinating bird, and educational for many.
Thanks again for the comments,
Julian Hough,
CT, USA
jrhough1(AT)snet.net
www.naturescapeimages.net
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Marbled or Long-billed Murrelet?
From: SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 5 Oct 2004 7:50pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Greetings
A recent Western Birds issue debunked the usefulness of the underwing covert
pattern. So that mark is not useful in identifying the specimen in question.
Cheers
Steven Mlodinow
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: BIRDWG01] European / Pacific Golden-Plover?
SC, USA
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 6 Oct 2004 4:45am
Dear all,
I echo Julian's comments on this pluvialis. It is possible that the outer
primaries are not quite fully-grown, I suppose, and this may account for
the apparent shortness of the wings beyond the tail. A minority of
dominicas can be quite yellow on the upperparts and head, and are a pitfall
for those of us seeking the elusive fulva.
Cheers,
Martin
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: CT Snowy Plover Age and Origins
From: Shaibal Mitra <mitra(AT)mail.csi.cuny.edu>
Date: 6 Oct 2004 7:33am
Hi all,
Regarding the issue of age in relation to vagrant origins, Julian Hough wrote:
“Logically, as Louis also points out, it would seem that such a bird
[Second-Year with retained, heavily worn juv primaries] would not be in any
"flight worthy" state to make any long distance movements, especially across the
Atlantic, and would suggest that the bird is more likely of North American
origin.”
This argument is only valid if one assumes the bird arrived recently--and even
then, the bird’s presumed within-continent movements would surely qualify as
long-distance. But consider that many vagrant Palearctic shorebirds seen in
North America in SPRING are Second-Year birds. Many of these probably arrived
in NA the previous fall as Hatching-Year birds with fresh juv primaries. From a
strictly logical standpoint, it is plausible that this bird arrived from the
Old World last fall, wintered somewhere to the south of CT, and summered in the
vicinity of where it was discovered.
Best,
Shai
________________________________________________________________
Sent via the WebMail system at mail.csi.cuny.edu
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: CT Snowy Plover Age and Origins
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ricard__Guti=E9rrez?= <gutarb(AT)TERRA.ES>
Date: 6 Oct 2004 8:06am
Hello all:
Again I have to say that here in NE Spain we have a considerable (European
significant, over 1% of continental population, thus declared Special
Protection Area under European Birds Directive) breeding C.alexandrinus
population: 100 pairs at Llobregat delta and over 1000 breeding pairs at
Ebre Delta.
We have never recorded in any of those birds a pattern of pale legs such as
that of the American bird od this case. The legs' black colour (Spanish
name: Chorlitejo patinegro [black-legged plover]) is uniform and constant
amongst the species here.
Hope this helps
Ricard Gutiérrez
http://www.rarebirdspain.net
-----Mensaje original-----
De: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]En nombre de Shaibal Mitra
Enviado el: miércoles, 06 de octubre de 2004 16:32
Para: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Asunto: [BIRDWG01] CT Snowy Plover Age and Origins
Hi all,
Regarding the issue of age in relation to vagrant origins, Julian Hough
wrote:
“Logically, as Louis also points out, it would seem that such a bird
[Second-Year with retained, heavily worn juv primaries] would not be in any
"flight worthy" state to make any long distance movements, especially across
the Atlantic, and would suggest that the bird is more likely of North
American origin.”
This argument is only valid if one assumes the bird arrived recently--and
even then, the bird’s presumed within-continent movements would surely
qualify as long-distance. But consider that many vagrant Palearctic
shorebirds seen in North America in SPRING are Second-Year birds. Many of
these probably arrived in NA the previous fall as Hatching-Year birds with
fresh juv primaries. From a strictly logical standpoint, it is plausible
that this bird arrived from the Old World last fall, wintered somewhere to
the south of CT, and summered in the vicinity of where it was discovered.
Best,
Shai
________________________________________________________________
Sent via the WebMail system at mail.csi.cuny.edu
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: CT Snowy Plover Age and Origins
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)COASTSIDE.NET>
Date: 6 Oct 2004 9:36am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
At 05:10 PM 10/6/2004 +0200, Ricard Guti=E9rrez wrote:
>We have never recorded in any of those birds a pattern of pale legs such as
>that of the American bird od this case. The legs' black colour (Spanish
>name: Chorlitejo patinegro [black-legged plover]) is uniform and constant
>amongst the species here.
>Hope this helps
I had sent a personal message to Julian noting the pinkish legs. Here in=20
California the legs of Snowy Plover are pretty standard greyish with slight=
=20
pinkish tones, or blackish so the leg colour stood out to me. I mentioned=20
that it gave the initial suggestion of being a Collared Plover, a species=20
that can be ruled out by several other features. I had wondered if Kentish=
=20
Plovers had pinkish legs, but I guess not. I don't know if these pinkish=20
legs mean anything, but the population in Chile (occidentalis) has pale=20
pinkish legs. I am not suggesting that Julian's individual is from the west=
=20
coast of South America, but it suggests that documenting leg colour to=20
understand if there are consistent geographic differences may be in order.
Alvaro
Alvaro Jaramillo
NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS AS OF MAY 2004
chucao(AT)coastside.net
Half Moon Bay, California
Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
http://www.fieldguides.com/home.htm
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: CT Snowy Plover Age and Origins
From: julian hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 6 Oct 2004 9:53am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
As for the timing of the Snowy Plover's arrival in CT based on moult state, it
is of course conjecture, and I agree with others that we really don't know for
sure when and where it arrived. The more information we can glean from this
interesting individual, which had it been a typical greyish, small-legged,
pale-lored Gulf individual, would not have generated the discussion put forth
during the past few days.
Leg colour seems anomalous for the most part with most races of Snowy Plover,
but to clarify, the legs can be seen to be pale greyish around the ankles and
partially on the sides of the tibia (I don't have photos in front of me..).
If the bird is less than healthy with respect to energy diverted to replacing
feathers could this be responsible for the weird leg colour????
Thanks again to all for some educational input...
Julian
Shaibal Mitra <mitra(AT)MAIL.CSI.CUNY.EDU> wrote:
Hi all,
Regarding the issue of age in relation to vagrant origins, Julian Hough wrote:
“Logically, as Louis also points out, it would seem that such a bird
[Second-Year with retained, heavily worn juv primaries] would not be in any
"flight worthy" state to make any long distance movements, especially across the
Atlantic, and would suggest that the bird is more likely of North American
origin.”
This argument is only valid if one assumes the bird arrived recently--and even
then, the bird’s presumed within-continent movements would surely qualify as
long-distance. But consider that many vagrant Palearctic shorebirds seen in
North America in SPRING are Second-Year birds. Many of these probably arrived in
NA the previous fall as Hatching-Year birds with fresh juv primaries. From a
strictly logical standpoint, it is plausible that this bird arrived from the Old
World last fall, wintered somewhere to the south of CT, and summered in the
vicinity of where it was discovered.
Best,
Shai
________________________________________________________________
Sent via the WebMail system at mail.csi.cuny.edu
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: BIRDWG01] European / Pacific Golden-Plover?
SC, USA
From: Les Chibana <les(AT)BIRDNUTZ.COM>
Date: 6 Oct 2004 10:02am
All,
Forgive my ignorance (if it's showing), but per a discussion on a local
bird list,
it was pointed out that fulva are more likely to be molting in
migration and
dominica usually molt on their winter grounds. References were given
from
three sources along with some of the text from said refs. I can forward
this
particular post, or Alvaro, who appears to be currrently reading ID
Frontiers
may want to do his own post. Perhaps I hear that incoming post right
now....
Of course, this would just be background info that speaks to
likelihoods and
not necessarily applicable to the bird in question.
Les Chibana
Palo Alto, CA
On Oct 6, 2004, at 4:52 AM, Martin Reid wrote:
> Dear all,
> I echo Julian's comments on this pluvialis. It is possible that the
> outer
> primaries are not quite fully-grown, I suppose, and this may account
> for
> the apparent shortness of the wings beyond the tail. A minority of
> dominicas can be quite yellow on the upperparts and head, and are a
> pitfall
> for those of us seeking the elusive fulva.
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
>
> Martin Reid
> San Antonio, Texas
> mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
> http://www.martinreid.com
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: CT Snowy Plover Age and Origins
From: KACastelein and DJLauten <birdsong(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 6 Oct 2004 10:09am
Folks,
A couple of quick comments.
Leg color - here in Oregon leg color is grey, however, occasionally we
will handle a bird that has some pink coloration in the legs. Never are
the legs totally pink, but sometimes individuals will have some pink on
the legs, usually on the back or front of the leg along the length of
the tarsus. Kind of like this bird (!).
molt - I would agree that this bird's primaries are well worn, and this
could suggest retained juvenile feathers. How this affects migration
distance is a good question. But, for comparison, we had a 2003 hatch
year female nesting in Oregon this summer who was hatched and banded as
a chick in San Diego, California. After nesting several times this
summer in Oregon, she promptly returned to San Diego to winter.
Obviously she did this all with one set of primary feathers, because she
left Oregon before she could have completed a full primary molt. So,
she traveled from San Diego to Oregon and back again on one set of
primaries, and she wintered and summered in between. Not sure of the
mileage she traveled, but you can get a good idea that she clocked some
serious mileage on one set of primaries. This might not be as long a
distance as Europe to North America, but it does suggest that a flight
from Florida or Texas to Connecticut is not unrealistic on worn primaries.
Cheers
Dave Lauten
Bandon OR
birdsong(AT)harborside.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Cackling Goose
From: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker(AT)ZIPCON.NET>
Date: 7 Oct 2004 8:38am
HI:
Saw this on another listserver:
Here is some information compiled by David Sibley on the identification of
the newly split Cackling Goose. I saw this on another listserv today...
my
apologies if it has already crossed this list and I missed it.
http://www.sibleyguides.com/canada_cackling.htm
--
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way!"
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Italy: Pacific vs. American Golden Plover
From: Hugh McGuinness <hmcguinness(AT)ROSS.ORG>
Date: 7 Oct 2004 6:55pm
Menotti Passarella <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT> writes:
>http://www.nybirds.org/Publications/KB53no4_PacGoldPlover.htm
Hello Menotti,
Although the photos you posted are not great I agree that your bird leans
toward AGP in bill size, tertial length, and tibia length. On the other
hand, in photo 3, the tail and primaries look truncate to my eye and more
like PGP. Overall, however, my impression is AGP. Please let us know if
better quality photos get posted. And congratulations on an great find.
hugh
Hugh McGuinness
The Ross School
18 Goodfriend Park
East Hampton, NY 11937
hmcguinness(AT)ross.org
631-907-5229
http://mail.ross.org/~hmcguinness
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Sibley goose thoughts: a response
From: GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 8 Oct 2004 10:28am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi all:
I just had occasion to read David Sibley's excellent treatise on his thought=
s=20
on the separation of Canada and Cackling geese.=A0 I write here only to repl=
y=20
to one small piece of information provided therein:=A0 the black stripe=20
separating the white cheeks on the underside of the neck.
During the winter I spent in Cape May (1993-1994; sometime in January, I=20
think; I'll have to look for the picture), I happened to photograph two Cana=
da=20
Geese flying directly overhead over Lily Lake.=A0 I didn't notice it at the=20=
time,=20
but when I got the pix from that roll back, I noted the presence of a=20
well-defined black stripe separating the white cheeks on both birds.=A0 Sinc=
e that was=20
not something that I had noted before -- though, I admittedly spent very lit=
tle=20
time studying CAGO when I lived in the East -- I was somewhat surprised.
So, as I really don't think that those two geese were western geese and they=
=20
definitely were NOT Cackling Geese, I think that the eastern birds at least=20
occasionally show the black separation.
Sincerely,
Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Canada Goose forms
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 8 Oct 2004 12:17pm
I have been unfortunate enough to have been able to follow the spread
and growth of the urban flock of maxima here in Milwaukee and SE
Wisconsin. I began with a flock of less than 25 birds in about 1976;
pre-1974 CBC records of any form of CAGO were rare here. I was able to
read about 14 bands of the 19 or so that were banded (!) The high
percentage of banded birds was testimony to the origins of these
flocks; most of these birds were from federal and state introduction
programs around the Midwwest. The most bizarre return was a giant from
Michigan that escaped from a state introduction project pen in
Oklahoma and was apparently making its way back home when it found
Milwaukee "a great place by a great lake" as the bad slogan goes. One
has to remember that this was the time of the "Goose Wars" when
management practices of the 60's and early 70's at Horicon Marsh were
so successful that most of the Miss Valley Population of interiors
stopped here and practically nowhere else. This instilled a lot of
political wrangling and accusations of shortstopping of MVP Geese,
delaying seasons and targets for (and revenues from) southern
hunters. The wars involved hazing the geese from Horicon to
surrounding marshes in hope that they would head south more quickly;
Horicon was remanaged for less attraction to geese as it remains
today.
Enough of the anecdotes of the aged; the identification point is that
as Horicon became less of a scheduled stop on these birds' fall
travels they dispersed into SE Wisconsin and began to mingle with the
growing giant population. I noted increasing numbers of interiors
that lingered and eventually wintered with the giants. When I first
began to watch these giants I noted that some birds had some of the
old, classic giant characters including white flecking on the black of
the face and very light breasts; there might be other characters I
forgot- see Hanson's "The Giant Canada Goose". These "classic" birds
have virtually disappeared in the last 30 years and size variation in
the summer resident flocks abounds, seemingly outside of sex-based
variation, probably due to the interior influence. The warmer winters
have only helped interiors winter farther north and mingle with the
now abundant resident giant flocks. We are currently seeing many good
Richardson's here this fall and we are often presented with 3 size
ranges to deal with in urban flocks.
Here's a Richardson's and some maxima; this bird does have the black
throat stripe-
http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/cg.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/cg2.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/cg3.jpg
John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Sibley goose thoughts: a response
From: Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 8 Oct 2004 10:51am
At 01:28 PM 10/8/2004 -0400, Tony Leukering wrote:
>... I write here only to reply to one small piece of information provided
>therein: the black stripe separating the white cheeks on the underside of
>the neck.
><snip>...So, as I really don't think that those two geese were western
>geese and they definitely were NOT Cackling Geese, I think that the
>eastern birds at least occasionally show the black separation.
Eastern Canada Geese show this black line all the time. Every flock around
central New York has some individuals that have it complete, some that have
partial lines, and often some that have large ones that make the white
patch appear small. I have estimated how many have it in Ithaca a couple
of times, but my age-befuddled brain doesn't remember what I came up
with. 10%?
I believe we get mostly resident maxima and migrant interior geese here.
This is just not a good character to differentiate the subspecies, IMHO.
Kevin
*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Honker subsp.
From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
Date: 8 Oct 2004 10:59am
On a related question, how confidently can resident Canada
Goose populations in the Northeast be assigned to sub-species.
I thought that they were mostly interior subsp that had stopped
migrating, but have also heard that maxima was widely released in
the east.
Also if interior stopped migrating why wouldn't canadensis have stuck
around as well.
Matt Sharp
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Italy: Pacific vs. American Golden Plover
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 8 Oct 2004 8:59am
Dear all,
I have to respectfully disagree with Hugh on this bird. The upperparts
look rather dishevelled and patchy to me, indicating that some molt is
progressing in these tracts. IF so, then this is not a juvenile, which
look very uniform above in the patterning (on juvs of both taxa some can
have the coverts less-gold than the scaps/back, but the pattern and
freshness is uniform.)
I feel that the golden on the face, plus the extensive occurrence of scaps
(and all the tertials) that have un-notched but RICH golden edges is
typical of 2CY PAGP, and not found in any non-juv plumage of AMGP (but
please correct me someone, if I'm wrong on this.)
I agree that the bill looks rather short, and the extent of visible
primaries beyond the tertials in long, but the leg length is hard to
assess, and the length of the primaries compared to the tail looks much
better for PAGP than for AMGP. It is possible that the tertials are not
fully-grown, accounting for their shorter-than-normal appearance - ?
FYI take a look at the bills on the two PAGPs in Angus Wilson's comparative
pic (5th photo) at this page:
http://www.oceanwanderers.com/NJPGP.html
- the Italian bird's bill looks fairly similar in length compared to the
eye position, I feel.
Thus, I feel that this is probably a 2CY PAGP. I wish more people would
chime in on this one!
Cheers,
Martin
At 10/7/2004 09:55 PM -0400, you wrote:
>Menotti Passarella <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT> writes:
> >http://www.nybirds.org/Publications/KB53no4_PacGoldPlover.htm
>Hello Menotti,
>
>Although the photos you posted are not great I agree that your bird leans
>toward AGP in bill size, tertial length, and tibia length. On the other
>hand, in photo 3, the tail and primaries look truncate to my eye and more
>like PGP. Overall, however, my impression is AGP. Please let us know if
>better quality photos get posted. And congratulations on an great find.
>
>hugh
>
>Hugh McGuinness
>The Ross School
>18 Goodfriend Park
>East Hampton, NY 11937
>hmcguinness(AT)ross.org
>631-907-5229
>http://mail.ross.org/~hmcguinness
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Iding borealis and diomedea Cory's
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 8 Oct 2004 5:01pm
Dear all,
I've recently found some photos taken on a Texas pelagic that suggest C. d.
diomedea:
http://www.martinreid.com/Corys.html
I'd greatly value any comments on their identity from those with some
experience with both forms, plus can anyone tell me if C.d. diomedea has
been documented in North American waters? if so, details would be
wonderful - thanks.
FYI there are some excellent photos of both forms here at Dick Newell's
terrific site:
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=942&show_thumbnails=False
and
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=410&show_thumbnails=False
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=409&show_thumbnails=False
- and there is a discussion with photos of the UK's first diomedea in the
latest issue of BIRDING WORLD (vol 17 number 8)
The primary article describing the differences is by Ricard Gutierrez in
DUTCH BIRDING 20 216-225 - I thought there was an online version at his
fabulous web site: http://www.rarebirdspain.net/home.htm - but I can't seem
to find it there...
Cheers,
Martin
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Italy: Pacific vs. American Golden Plover
From: julian hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 8 Oct 2004 9:57am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
To respond to Martin's plea, I had looked at a photo on the surfbirds European
Stop Press page and thought at first glance that the bird was probably a Pacific
Golden Plover, mainly due to general color and jizz, especially the brightness
of the face, the overall yellowish tone to the bird, and the long legs.
Of course, I can't make ot the back end details and didn't pursue looking at
other minutiae, but I didn't get the impression this is a dominica. Are there
any shots showing the breadth of the neck stripe when seen from behind
(apparently useful on Adults (?))
etc.
There you go Martin, I'm trying to spur things along...
Julian Hough,
Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET> wrote:
Dear all,
I have to respectfully disagree with Hugh on this bird. The upperparts
look rather dishevelled and patchy to me, indicating that some molt is
progressing in these tracts. IF so, then this is not a juvenile, which
look very uniform above in the patterning (on juvs of both taxa some can
have the coverts less-gold than the scaps/back, but the pattern and
freshness is uniform.)
I feel that the golden on the face, plus the extensive occurrence of scaps
(and all the tertials) that have un-notched but RICH golden edges is
typical of 2CY PAGP, and not found in any non-juv plumage of AMGP (but
please correct me someone, if I'm wrong on this.)
I agree that the bill looks rather short, and the extent of visible
primaries beyond the tertials in long, but the leg length is hard to
assess, and the length of the primaries compared to the tail looks much
better for PAGP than for AMGP. It is possible that the tertials are not
fully-grown, accounting for their shorter-than-normal appearance - ?
FYI take a look at the bills on the two PAGPs in Angus Wilson's comparative
pic (5th photo) at this page:
http://www.oceanwanderers.com/NJPGP.html
- the Italian bird's bill looks fairly similar in length compared to the
eye position, I feel.
Thus, I feel that this is probably a 2CY PAGP. I wish more people would
chime in on this one!
Cheers,
Martin
At 10/7/2004 09:55 PM -0400, you wrote:
>Menotti Passarella writes:
> >http://www.nybirds.org/Publications/KB53no4_PacGoldPlover.htm
>Hello Menotti,
>
>Although the photos you posted are not great I agree that your bird leans
>toward AGP in bill size, tertial length, and tibia length. On the other
>hand, in photo 3, the tail and primaries look truncate to my eye and more
>like PGP. Overall, however, my impression is AGP. Please let us know if
>better quality photos get posted. And congratulations on an great find.
>
>hugh
>
>Hugh McGuinness
>The Ross School
>18 Goodfriend Park
>East Hampton, NY 11937
>hmcguinness(AT)ross.org
>631-907-5229
>http://mail.ross.org/~hmcguinness
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Iding borealis and diomedea Cory's
From: Angus Wilson <wilsoa02(AT)MED.NYU.EDU>
Date: 8 Oct 2004 5:25pm
To answer Martin's question of North American occurrence, John Bull
references five D. d. diomedea specimens from New York waters
(collected between Aug 15-Oct 4) that he says were verified by Robert
Cushman Murphy. Unfortunately there are no details of the criteria
Murphy used to separate these specimens from D. d. borealis
(measurements alone?).
I don't know if these specimens have been revisited but it might be
worth doing. I would also imagine additional specimens have been
obtained from local waters and might merit careful scrutiny.
Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Iding borealis and diomedea Cory's
From: Julian Hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 8 Oct 2004 7:39pm
Martin/Angus,
Just last week, I was re-examining some shots I took of Cory's off North
Carolina in Spring 01.
One bird in particular has an underwing pattern suggesting diomedea rather
than borealis, quite similar to the bird's in your first picture.
How variable this is, and what constitues "enough" white may prove to be
interesting,
Julian Hough,
CT, USA
jrhough1(AT)snet.net
www.naturescapeimages.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angus Wilson" <wilsoa02(AT)MED.NYU.EDU>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Iding borealis and diomedea Cory's
> To answer Martin's question of North American occurrence, John Bull
> references five D. d. diomedea specimens from New York waters
> (collected between Aug 15-Oct 4) that he says were verified by Robert
> Cushman Murphy. Unfortunately there are no details of the criteria
> Murphy used to separate these specimens from D. d. borealis
> (measurements alone?).
>
> I don't know if these specimens have been revisited but it might be
> worth doing. I would also imagine additional specimens have been
> obtained from local waters and might merit careful scrutiny.
>
> Cheers, Angus Wilson
> New York City
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Iding borealis and diomedea Cory's
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)ZEN.CO.UK>
Date: 9 Oct 2004 1:25am
re: http://www.martinreid.com/Corys.html
I would have said that there is no question that at least some, maybe all,
of the Texas birds are diomedea:
The obvious white on the underside of the primaries on some of these birds
doesn't look like an effect of the light.
Some birds do show a contrasting paler head and mantle (though this is
probably only an indicator, not a diagnostic)
The bills mostly look long and slim (contra Martin's impression)
The bills look pallid, not the rich orange tones of many borealis.
What we don't know is:
Do some populations of borealis (e.g. The Canaries) have birds with some
white in the primaries?
Can diomedea lack any visible white?
As Martin's links to my website came through a little garbled (thank you
Bill Gates) - I will repeat them here in a form that I hope works, and I've
added one that he missed:
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=942
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=410
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=409
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=829
Dick Newell, Cambridge, UK
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Photos of some interesting Storm-Petrels from
Texas
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 9 Oct 2004 5:02am
Dear all,
Along with those images of Cory's, Andy Garcia also captured some pics of
Stormies on the same Texas pelagic. While some seem straightforward,
others are less-so, to me. I anticipate that my concerns reflect my
inexperience rather than something truly exciting:
http://www.martinreid.com/stormies.html
- but it may be a learning experience for more than just myself to
discuss some of these birds, thanks,
Martin
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Photos of some interesting Storm-Petrels from
Texas
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle(AT)BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: 9 Oct 2004 9:49am
Hi all -
These all appear to be Band-rumped's and Leach's storm-petrels. Regarding
molt in Leach's, SY (2nd CY) can begin the 2nd-prebasic molt with the inner
primaries in early May, so the timing of the bird illustrated in K-L-M-N
(p1-5 replaced, p6 dropped) is on schedule, and the pointed and worn outer
primaries indicate SY. In the next 2-3 years until breeding, the primary
molt will become later each season until matching that of adults, which
begin the primary molt in August. This is a common pattern among seabirds
that remain in one hemisphere (at least for the most part) and delay
breeding until 3-6 years of age.
More perplexing are first-cycle molts of Wilson's Storm-Petrel and other
seabirds that cross the equator. Adult Wilson's molt in the N. Hemisphere
in May-August. Do 1st-year birds, which fledge in March, also have a
complete molt in the North within the first 8 months of life, do the wait
until they are over a year old, or do they do something else (like molt in
the Southern Hemisphere during the breeding season)? Murphy noted that the
feathers on juvenile Wilson's were weak, suggesting a molt within the first
year. But we were unable to confirm exactly what they do with specimens.
Any ideas?
Peter Pyle
At 05:10 AM 10/9/2004, Martin Reid wrote:
>Dear all,
>Along with those images of Cory's, Andy Garcia also captured some pics of
>Stormies on the same Texas pelagic. While some seem straightforward,
>others are less-so, to me. I anticipate that my concerns reflect my
>inexperience rather than something truly exciting:
>http://www.martinreid.com/stormies.html
> - but it may be a learning experience for more than just myself to
>discuss some of these birds, thanks,
>Martin
>
>Martin Reid
>San Antonio, Texas
>mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
>http://www.martinreid.com
|
|
|
|
BIRDxxxx
BIRDCHAT
ID-FRONTIERS
US:NewEngland