ID-FRONTIERS for October 10-16, 2004

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Re: Iding borealis and diomedea Cory's   =?us-ascii?Q?Ricard_   Sun, 10 Oct 2004   3:54pm   revamped website/photo-resource   Julian Hough    Mon, 11 Oct 2004   7:17pm   Canada Goose chins   Kevin McGowan    Tue, 12 Oct 2004   6:38am   Cackling Geese with dark chin mark   Jean Iron    Tue, 12 Oct 2004   7:13am   Reply: Cackling Geese with dark chin mark   sales(AT)BIRDINGWORLD.C   Tue, 12 Oct 2004   9:58am   Re: Cackling Geese with dark chin mark   Jim Mountjoy    Tue, 12 Oct 2004   10:07am   New edition GULLS book   Ian Paulsen    Fri, 15 Oct 2004   9:46am   Re: New edition GULLS book   John Idzikowski    Fri, 15 Oct 2004   9:54am   Correction- Re: New edition GULLS book   John Idzikowski    Fri, 15 Oct 2004   10:10am   =?iso-8859-1?Q?TR=A0=3A_=5BEBN=5D_Possible_South_Polar_Skua?=   =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierr   Fri, 15 Oct 2004   12:25pm   Re: New edition GULLS book   Diederik D'Hert   Fri, 15 Oct 2004   10:31pm   Gull book confusion   Jonathan Simms    Fri, 15 Oct 2004   11:33pm   Re: Gull book confusion   Mike Patterson    Sat, 16 Oct 2004   7:14am

To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'. This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.

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Subject: Re: Iding borealis and diomedea Cory's
From: =?us-ascii?Q?Ricard__Gutierrez?= <gutarb(AT)TERRA.ES>
Date: 10 Oct 2004 3:54pm

Hello all

Yes, the DB article is not online, basically for copyright purposes but
perhaps I'd start asking Arnoud van den Berg what about if I'd post a pdf or
something...
Anyway, given the interest, I have built up a diomedea photopage with birds
I've photographed this year off NE Spain. So there will be more 'material'
for comparison purposes. It's here:
http://www.rarebirdspain.net/arbsi027.htm

Notice how white do look our birds as depicted in the photos. Besides the
photos, I've included an edited part of the message (and links) I sent to
this mailing list recently. But there might be some variation elsewhere
which I've not noticed but might exist.I'll see if I can include more pages
on borealis from Desertas-Madeira, Azores and Canary Islands which I have on
tape or slides.

I've already started another project which is attempting measuring what I
explained once in DB. And testing differences. I have already set a number
of measurements to be taken on the basis of one diomedea I have on the
fridge at the reserve I manage. And colleagues from the Canary islands
(borealis) have told me that they are going to help too.

Regarding the Texas birds, I see some diomedea there at least within the
first group and the Sean Smith bird. Others would perhaps need more detailed
study or better -and more- pictures.

Thanks for the comments on the website, coming this audience is nothing but
an honour.

Best wishes

Ricard Gutierrez
http://www.rarebirdspain.net

-----Mensaje original-----
De: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]En nombre de Martin Reid
Enviado el: sabado, 09 de octubre de 2004 2:09
Para: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Asunto: [BIRDWG01] Iding borealis and diomedea Cory's

Dear all,
I've recently found some photos taken on a Texas pelagic that suggest C. d.
diomedea:
http://www.martinreid.com/Corys.html
I'd greatly value any comments on their identity from those with some
experience with both forms, plus can anyone tell me if C.d. diomedea has
been documented in North American waters?  if so, details would be
wonderful - thanks.
FYI there are some excellent photos of both forms here at Dick Newell's
terrific site:
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=942&show_thumbnails=False
and
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=410&show_thumbnails=False
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=409&show_thumbnails=False

- and there is a discussion with photos of the UK's first diomedea in the
latest issue of BIRDING WORLD (vol 17 number 8)
The primary article describing the differences is by Ricard Gutierrez in
DUTCH BIRDING 20 216-225 - I thought there was an online version at his
fabulous web site: http://www.rarebirdspain.net/home.htm - but I can't seem
to find it there...
Cheers,
Martin

Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com


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Subject: revamped website/photo-resource
From: Julian Hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 11 Oct 2004 7:17pm

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Dear Birder's,

Just a note to say that I've been working on revamping my website (see =
link below)and some parts of it are still under construction (I just =
don't have the time to give it what it needs...)

Anyway, please feel free to shmy around the site. I've uploaded a few =
pieces of my artwork as well as short id. pieces and photo-galleries =
that may be of interest to UK birder's as well as more local and US =
related topics:

Inc:
Id. & Ageing of Forster's Terns
Basic Sexing of Snowy Owls
North America's 1st Red-footed Falcon, Mass., USA August 2004

and photo galleries of :
Common & Pallid Swifts
'smithsonianus' Herring Gulls
Ring-billed Gulls
Thayer's & Kumlien's Gulls
Various NA Shorebirds

blah, blah, blah.

You will find some links are inactive (l'll get to those when I can), =
but if anyone wants to add a link to their site please contact me.
Best to maximize the full screen for optimum viewing (may not load =
perfectly in some browsers).

I hope you will find something of interest.

Good Birding,

Julian Hough,
CT, USA
jrhough1(AT)snet.net

www.naturescapeimages.net
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Subject: Canada Goose chins
From: Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 12 Oct 2004 6:38am

I did a quick count of Canada Geese this weekend in a flock of about a
thousand here in central New York, and of the 50 birds I could be sure of,
10 had black chin stripes dividing the white face patch.

Kevin

*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/


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Subject: Cackling Geese with dark chin mark
From: Jean Iron <jeaniron(AT)SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 12 Oct 2004 7:13am

Cackling Geese are regular fall migrants in small numbers in southern
Ontario. Our birds may breed along the western coast of Baffin Island in
Nunavut Territory.

For recent photos of Richardson's Cackling Geese (Branta hutchinsii
hutchinsii) taken near Toronto, Ontario, with dark chin marks see
http://www3.sympatico.ca/jeaniron/cackling2.htm

Jean Iron and Ron Pittaway
Jean Iron
http://www3.sympatico.ca/jeaniron/
9 Lichen Place
Toronto ON  M3A 1X3
416-445-9297


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Subject: Reply: Cackling Geese with dark chin
         mark
From: sales(AT)BIRDINGWORLD.CO.UK
Date: 12 Oct 2004 9:58am

Hi
...perhaps interestingly, both your hutchinsii showing dark throat lines are
juveniles, but all the others are adults.

As with most other geese, adult and juvenile plumage of Canadas differs
markedly, so when comparing plumage features (eg head patterns), we must be
sure to compare like ages only.

We wouldn't cross-compare different age whitefronts, so shouldn't do so with
Canadas...

Also, when you say ''Cackling Geese are regular fall migrants in small
numbers in southern Ontario'', I take it you don't mean Cackling Cackling
Geese?

... Silly, silly old AOU.

cheers
Richard

sales(AT)birdingworld.co.uk
.................................................................

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Iron" <jeaniron(AT)SYMPATICO.CA>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: 12 October 2004 15:02
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Cackling Geese with dark chin mark

> Cackling Geese are regular fall migrants in small numbers in southern
> Ontario. Our birds may breed along the western coast of Baffin Island in
> Nunavut Territory.
>
> For recent photos of Richardson's Cackling Geese (Branta hutchinsii
> hutchinsii) taken near Toronto, Ontario, with dark chin marks see
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/jeaniron/cackling2.htm
>
> Jean Iron and Ron Pittaway
> Jean Iron
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/jeaniron/
> 9 Lichen Place
> Toronto ON  M3A 1X3
> 416-445-9297


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Subject: Re: Cackling Geese with dark chin mark
From: Jim Mountjoy <jmountjo(AT)KNOX.EDU>
Date: 12 Oct 2004 10:07am

I notice that the 2 Cackling Geese with chin stripes appear to have
somewhat dusky cheek patches, suggesting that they may be retaining some
juvenile plumage.  What little I can make out of feather size and shape
(should be smaller and rounder tipped in juvenile, and also to some
degree in first basic) also seems consistent with the idea that these
are young birds.  Could chin stripes be more frequent in juveniles?
Palmer (1976. Handbook of North American Birds) states that juveniles
may have the chin speckled dark brown.  (This description may to some
degree be specific to B. canadensis canadensis.)

More generally, I think age variation is another factor that we will
have to think about as we begin scrutinizing Canada/Cackling Geese more
closely.  I notice that one of the Ontario birds shows a rather dusky
breast, in contrast to the 'standard' description of hutchinsii as a
pale-breasted sub-species.  Could this also be age-related??  Palmer's
description of juvenile plumage is a bit confusing - he describes it
generally as "more blended, somewhat darker" but when referring to the
underparts he states "breast and much of belly consistently paler, with
somewhat mottled effect (rather than barring)".  The timing of the
pre-basic molt is another question in my mind.  Palmer indicates that
Basic 1 is "largely acquired by Oct., often much earlier", but is this
true for all subspecies/species?

For what it is worth, I saw a large flock of Cackling Geese here in
west-central Illinois this weekend, and a number of them were rather
dusky-breasted.  The most extreme bird was rather dark brown on the
chest, and it was a young bird.  However, I think that examining
specimens or birds on the breeding ground may be necessary to answer
some of these questions, rather than relying solely on observations of
migrants and wintering birds of unknown origin.

Jim Mountjoy

jmountjo(AT)knox.edu
Galesburg IL

Jean Iron wrote:

> Cackling Geese are regular fall migrants in small numbers in southern
> Ontario. Our birds may breed along the western coast of Baffin Island in
> Nunavut Territory.
>
> For recent photos of Richardson's Cackling Geese (Branta hutchinsii
> hutchinsii) taken near Toronto, Ontario, with dark chin marks see
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/jeaniron/cackling2.htm
>
> Jean Iron and Ron Pittaway
> Jean Iron
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/jeaniron/
> 9 Lichen Place
> Toronto ON  M3A 1X3
> 416-445-9297
> ---
> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
>

---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]


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Subject: New edition GULLS book
From: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker(AT)ZIPCON.NET>
Date: 15 Oct 2004 9:46am

HI:
 I've heard that the new "edition" of the Helm GULLS book is out in the
United Kingdom. Has anyone seen it and what do you think? Are the mistakes
corrected?

--
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way!"


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Subject: Re: New edition GULLS book
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 15 Oct 2004 9:54am

Amazon does not have it yet. Here's the publisher's page-

http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/titles/7362.html

John Idzikowski, Milwaukee

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Paulsen" <birdbooker(AT)ZIPCON.NET>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 11:49 AM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] New edition GULLS book

> HI:
>  I've heard that the new "edition" of the Helm GULLS book is out in
the
> United Kingdom. Has anyone seen it and what do you think? Are the
mistakes
> corrected?
>
> --
> Ian Paulsen
> Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
> A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
> "Rallidae all the way!"


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Subject: Correction- Re: New edition GULLS book
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 15 Oct 2004 10:10am

The link below is not for the Helm guide but for the Princeton gull
book still due. Amazon UK does not have the Helm in stock and Amazon
US does not even list it.

John I, Milwaukee

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Idzikowski" <idzikoj(AT)uwm.edu>
To: "Ian Paulsen" <birdbooker(AT)ZIPCON.NET>;
<BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] New edition GULLS book

> Amazon does not have it yet. Here's the publisher's page-
>
> http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/titles/7362.html
>
> John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Paulsen" <birdbooker(AT)ZIPCON.NET>
> To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 11:49 AM
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] New edition GULLS book
>
>
> > HI:
> >  I've heard that the new "edition" of the Helm GULLS book is out
in
> the
> > United Kingdom. Has anyone seen it and what do you think? Are the
> mistakes
> > corrected?
> >
> > --
> > Ian Paulsen
> > Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
> > A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
> > "Rallidae all the way!"
>


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Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?TR=A0=3A_=5BEBN=5D_Possible_South_Polar_Skua?=
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierre-Andr=E9_CROCHET?= <pierre-andre.crochet(AT)CEFE.CNRS.FR>
Date: 15 Oct 2004 12:25pm

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This is forwarded from eurobirdnet at the request of the original sender.=
=0D

________________________________=0D

De: EuroBirdnet - the list for Western Palearctic birds and birdwatching de=
 la part de Stefan Hage=0D
Date: ven. 15/10/2004 14:07=0D
=C0: EUROBIRDNET(AT)listserv.funet.fi=0D
Objet : [EBN] Possible South Polar Skua=0D

Hello all!=0D

In 12 august 1991, I took a few photos of a "Great" Skua on Hono, west of=
=0D
Gothenburg in Sweden . It was a very light-bellied bird contrasting to the=
=0D
dark wing undersides.=0D
The photos were also shown to the Swedish Rarities commity, but they=0D
couldn=B4t say what it was.=0D

Resently I scanned the photos and published them on my web-site.=0D

It would be very interesting to here any comments of the bird. Is it=0D
possible to say if it=B4s a Great Skua or a South Polar?=0D
The quality of the photos aren=B4t the best but the underside of the bird=
=0D
shows quite well.=0D

Please have a look at the photos on http://www.birds.se=0D

Stefan Hage=0D
Varberg, Sweden=0D
http://www.birds.se=0D
stefan(AT)birds.se=0D

--=0D
passerelle antivirus du campus CNRS de Montpellier=0D
--=0D

--=20
passerelle antivirus du campus CNRS de Montpellier
--

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Subject: Re: New edition GULLS book
From: "Diederik D'Hert" <diederik_dhert(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 15 Oct 2004 10:31pm

Yes, it is out already, as I have received my copy some days ago.
Unfortunately I have not start reading, so I cannot tell you whether
mistakes are corrected (but I suppose they are).

Diederik D'Hert
Belgium
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Paulsen" <birdbooker(AT)ZIPCON.NET>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 6:49 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] New edition GULLS book

> HI:
>  I've heard that the new "edition" of the Helm GULLS book is out in the
> United Kingdom. Has anyone seen it and what do you think? Are the mistakes
> corrected?
>
> --
> Ian Paulsen
> Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
> A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
> "Rallidae all the way!"
>


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Subject: Gull book confusion
From: Jonathan Simms <jaeger77(AT)T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: 15 Oct 2004 11:33pm

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Dear all,

I have been anxiously awaiting the revisions/corrections to this boook =
and have noted with interest the reports that it is now available. Upon =
closer scrutiny, however, I remain quite confused as to what is what.

Amazon.co.uk seems equally confused with multiple books, published on =
multiple dates (past, present and future). Birding World reports that =
the book is available, but details are limited.

Add to this mention that there is a Helm version and  Pronceton version =
... and paperback and hardcover versions ... and I start pulling out my =
hair.

Can someone please summarize (factually) what is going on here and what =
book(s) I should be buying?

Kind regards,

Jonathan Simms
current in Moenchengladbach, Germany
formerly of Northeastern Illinois and Southwestern Ontario
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Subject: Re: Gull book confusion
From: Mike Patterson <celata(AT)pacifier.com>
Date: 16 Oct 2004 7:14am

Confused? Don't be.

This from WorldTwitch ( http://www.worldtwitch.com/helm.htm ):
"Klaus Malling Olsen & Hans Larsson (illustrator). Gulls of Europe,
Asia and North America. 544 pages. Helm & Princeton University Press.
Corrected printing forthcoming 2004. The first printing contained so
many errors that it was recalled by the publishers. See BirdWG01
for errata. US | UK "

Different continents, different publishers, same book.

> Jonathan Simms wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> I have been anxiously awaiting the revisions/corrections to this boook
> and have noted with interest the reports that it is now available.
> Upon closer scrutiny, however, I remain quite confused as to what is
> what.
>
> Amazon.co.uk seems equally confused with multiple books, published on
> multiple dates (past, present and future). Birding World reports that
> the book is available, but details are limited.
>
> Add to this mention that there is a Helm version and  Pronceton
> version ... and paperback and hardcover versions ... and I start
> pulling out my hair.
>
> Can someone please summarize (factually) what is going on here and
> what book(s) I should be buying?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jonathan Simms
> current in Moenchengladbach, Germany
> formerly of Northeastern Illinois and Southwestern Ontario

--
Mike Patterson
Astoria, OR
celata(AT)pacifier.com

Common species are more common than rare species
                                            --- Dennis Paulson in
                                                     _Shorebirds of the PNW_