ID-FRONTIERS for November 7-13, 2004

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Anas discors/cyanoptera again (1st for Spain & WP?)   =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ricar   Mon, 8 Nov 2004   10:58am   Unidentified Martin Clips   Christopher T. Tessa   Mon, 8 Nov 2004   12:32pm   Re: Unidentified Martin Clips   Allen Chartier    Mon, 8 Nov 2004   5:09pm   2CY Long tailed Jaeger photos/ID   Martin Reid    Tue, 9 Nov 2004   4:54am   Re: 2CY Long tailed Jaeger photos/ID   Phillip Pickering    Tue, 9 Nov 2004   11:42pm   Re: 2CY Long tailed Jaeger photos/ID   Joseph Morlan    Wed, 10 Nov 2004   7:36am   Re: 2CY Long tailed Jaeger photos/ID   Phillip Pickering    Wed, 10 Nov 2004   10:40am   Re: 2CY Long tailed Jaeger photos/ID   Nathan Dias    Wed, 10 Nov 2004   12:28pm   RFI: email for Willaim S. Clark   Bill Pranty    Thu, 11 Nov 2004   10:02pm   Willaim S. Clark's email, redux   Bill Pranty    Thu, 11 Nov 2004   10:08pm   regarding my "2CY" Long-tailed Jaeger pics   Martin Reid    Fri, 12 Nov 2004   7:40am   rare birds of CA book   birdbooker(AT)zipcon.ne   Sat, 13 Nov 2004   5:52pm

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Subject: Anas discors/cyanoptera again (1st for Spain &
         WP?)
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ricard_Guti=E9rrez?= <gutarb(AT)TERRA.ES>
Date: 8 Nov 2004 10:58am

Hello all:

Let me come back to the issue I submitted some days ago (27th October) on
the ID of a 1st winter male Anas discors or cyanoptera, which some of you
kindly answered with a diversity of opinions. Now the photo has been
re-scaned and lasts c.350Kb and it is at
http://www.rarebirdspain.net/w3166.jpg in a c.800x600 pixels sized picture,
so perhaps a 2nd look can be given.

This bird was shot in 1906 at La Laguna, Tenerife, Canary Islands. Nearly a
century ago. In any of both cases it would become (historically) the 1st for
Spain. If the bird turns up to be a cyanoptera it would be also the 1st for
the Western Palearctic and almost certainly a true 'B' list species(wild
vagrant, seen before 1950). Besides, this would include the species in this
side of the Atlantic official lists. Hence the interest for the record...

Some of the feather and bare parts details are best visible now. Could you
give us your opinion again?
Could paleness of head and eye-stripe be a fact of this particular
individual or it could be caused by the 'age' of the mounted specimen? And
is the bill shape correct for discors? or a bit too long for the average BW
teal...

I've seen both side by side in S Texas in 1999 but it is obvious that my/our
experience is no match for American qualified observers.

Thanks to the previous message, a contact with an American bird bander has
been made and details on measurements will hopefully be available in due
course.

Thanks in advance

Ricard Gutiérrez
Joint Secretary
Spanish Rarities Committee (CR/SEO)
http://www.rarebirdspain.net


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Subject: Unidentified Martin Clips
From: "Christopher T. Tessaglia-Hymes" <cth4(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 8 Nov 2004 12:32pm

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The following links are to short movie clips of an unidentified Martin
species that I observed in upstate New York on 5 November 1999. The
camcorder used to obtain these bad images was a Hi8 Sony Handicam. They are
in order of quality/usefulness, from best to worst. Frame grabs and
additional information surrounding this sighting follow, below.

If you know of anyone who has experience with Brown-chested and
Gray-breasted Martins, or any other species this might be, please forward
this email to them.

My questions are:
Can we rule out Purple Martin, without a doubt?
Can we rule out Gray-breasted Martin?
If this is a Brown-chested Martin, why can't we make out a definitive Bank
Swallow-like breast band?
What kind of variation in plumage can we expect to see in Brown-chested
Martins that may produce an individual lacking an obvious breast band?
Is there any possibility at all that this could be the nominate subspecies
Progne (Phaeoprogne) tapera (non-migratory) which seems to resemble this
bird more than the Progne (Phaeoprogne) tapera fusca (migratory) subspecies?

11:36:26 to 11:36:36
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/cayugabirdclub/mpg/CTHProject-4.mov
<www.birds.cornell.edu/cayugabirdclub/mpg/CTHProject-4.mov>
11:43:21 to 11:43:41
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/cayugabirdclub/mpg/CTHProject-6.mov
<www.birds.cornell.edu/cayugabirdclub/mpg/CTHProject-6.mov>
11:33:23 to 11:34:02
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/cayugabirdclub/mpg/CTHProject-2.mov
<www.birds.cornell.edu/cayugabirdclub/mpg/CTHProject-2.mov>
11:35:41 to 11:35:48
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/cayugabirdclub/mpg/CTHProject-3.mov
<www.birds.cornell.edu/cayugabirdclub/mpg/CTHProject-3.mov>
11:37:43 to 11:38:03
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/cayugabirdclub/mpg/CTHProject-5.mov
<www.birds.cornell.edu/cayugabirdclub/mpg/CTHProject-5.mov>
13:03:07 to 13:03:39
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/cayugabirdclub/mpg/CTHProject-7.mov
<www.birds.cornell.edu/cayugabirdclub/mpg/CTHProject-7.mov>

The following link contains 29 of the best frame grabs from the above movie
clips:
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cth4/MARTIN/index.html
<www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cth4/MARTIN/index.html>

LOCATION:
These clips and frame grabs are of an unidentified Martin species. It was
observed foraging over fields at the southwest corner of an area known to
local birders as the "Savannah Mucklands." Located in Seneca County, New
York State, the Savannah Mucklands lie just north of the Montezuma National
Wildlife Refuge and just to the west of the Village of Montezuma.

WEATHER and other species:
Weather that day was warm, perhaps 55 degrees F, with strong SW winds.
Lighting conditions were fairly good. Two Northern Rough-winged Swallows
and a single Barn Swallow were also observed that day, with a single
Rough-winged Swallow foraging over the same field as the Martin species
(see clip "Project-7.mov").

At the time of this sighting, I was unaware of just how remarkably late
this occurrence is for a Purple Martin in upstate New York. I filmed this
individual because its plumage didn't fit any that I would normally
identify as a Purple Martin, and so that I would be able to hopefully ID it
to age or sex (immature or female PUMA) later, with the aid of a good field
guide. Had I known just how rare this sighting may have been, I certainly
would have attempted to gather better and significantly more footage than
what I actually captured that day.

After having shown this to others and with further research, I am still not
ready to settle on a species identification for this bird. Hopefully,
birders with more Martin experience will be able to shed some light on this
mystery Martin.

Thanks and good birding!

Sincerely,
Chris T-H

=============================================
Christopher T. Tessaglia-Hymes, Research Assistant
Bioacoustics Research Program, Cornell Lab of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road, Ithaca, New York 14850
Voice: 607-254-2418, FAX: 607-254-2460
<http://www.birds.cornell.edu/brp> <mailto:cth4(AT)cornell.edu>
=============================================
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Subject: Re: Unidentified Martin Clips
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia1(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 8 Nov 2004 5:09pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Chris,

I have field experience with Gray-breasted Martin, and some field =
experience with Brown-chested Martin.  I cannot make any comments =
regarding field marks as I simply cannot be sure of what I'm seeing in =
your videos.  The only thing I can say is that the dramatic swooping =
flight, with extensive near-vertical dives, is very much like the =
Brown-chested Martins I've seen, which I've thought was quite different =
from the more horizontal flight with shallower dives of both Purple and =
Gray-breasted Martin.  Caribbean Martin has a flight style similar to =
Purple in my experience.

I know this won't help much.

Allen Chartier
amazilia1(AT)comcast.net
1442 West River Park Drive
Inkster, MI  48141
Website: http://www.amazilia.net
Michigan HummerNet: http://www.amazilia.net/MIHummerNet/index.htm
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Subject: 2CY Long tailed Jaeger photos/ID
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 9 Nov 2004 4:54am

Dear all,
Here are photos of a 2CY Long-tailed Jaeger seen on Nov 6 pelagic into the
Gulf of Mexico:
http://www.martinreid.com/jaeger2.html
  - as this is a rarely-seen plumage in North America, I've included some
pointers on IDing this type of bird; if there are any errors or omissions,
please get back to me(us all) - thanks.
Cheers,
Martin

Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com


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Subject: Re: 2CY Long tailed Jaeger photos/ID
From: Phillip Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 9 Nov 2004 11:42pm

Nice bird!

One minor point that may be of interest - I'm not used to seeing
the central rects separate to the degree visible in the upper photo
even when the tail is fanned. I suspect that one or both of  the
projecting feathers is an R2. Some post-juv L-t have R2s that
project that far. Considering the angle of view, at least the lower
projecting feather seems round-tipped enough to be an R2.

Cheers,

Phil Pickering
Lincoln City, Oregon
philliplc(AT)harborside.com

> Dear all,
> Here are photos of a 2CY Long-tailed Jaeger seen on Nov 6 pelagic into the
> Gulf of Mexico:
> http://www.martinreid.com/jaeger2.html
>   - as this is a rarely-seen plumage in North America, I've included some
> pointers on IDing this type of bird; if there are any errors or omissions,
> please get back to me(us all) - thanks.
> Cheers,
> Martin


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Subject: Re: 2CY Long tailed Jaeger photos/ID
From: Joseph Morlan <jmorlan(AT)CCSF.ORG>
Date: 10 Nov 2004 7:36am

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 06:02:42 -0600, Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET> wrote:

>Here are photos of a 2CY Long-tailed Jaeger seen on Nov 6 pelagic into the
>Gulf of Mexico:
>http://www.martinreid.com/jaeger2.html
>  - as this is a rarely-seen plumage in North America, I've included some
>pointers on IDing this type of bird;

It is interesting to compare your bird, with the photo at:

http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/oct01.htm

...which some people (myself included) think is probably a 2nd CY
Long-tailed, despite the white  bases to the primaries and primary coverts.

--
Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044  jmorlan(AT)ccsf.org
Fall Birding Classes start Sep 14  http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/
California Bird Records Committee  http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/


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Subject: Re: 2CY Long tailed Jaeger photos/ID
From: Phillip Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 10 Nov 2004 10:40am

> It is interesting to compare your bird, with the photo at:
>
> http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/oct01.htm

I've studied this particular photo more than any other photo
of any bird :) Probably also learned more from it than from
any other photo. I'm confident the bird is a Long-tailed based
on shape aspects including the short bill, narrow shoulders,
lack of body bulk compared to the wing surface area, narrow
wing bases with relatively unpronounced wing taper, and in
particular the pronounced indentation or pinched look to the face
at the bill base. In my experience the latter is never shown to this
degree by Parasitic - likely a fundamental difference in average
skull structure. Perhaps this has to do with the skull being less
elongated and the eye socket more forward-placed on L-t(?)
Martin's bird also shows this to some extent in the frontal view.

To speculate, this bird and perhaps also Martin's may have
prematurely lost an R2 and has grown back the next generation
out of synch with the other rects. Another example of projecting
R2s is Olsen & Larrson figure 135. I've often (respectfully)
wondered whether differentiating R1s from R2s was taken into
account when working out the tail molt info including in the book.
Page 150 includes the sentence referring to winter plumage adults
"rarely the two central rectrices are slightly rounded as on juveniles"
but then refers to photos of a bird apparently lacking R1s and
having projecting R2s (fig 118).

Cheers,

Phil


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Subject: Re: 2CY Long tailed Jaeger photos/ID
From: Nathan Dias <offshorebirder(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 10 Nov 2004 12:28pm

In the second photo from the top, the bird at:
http://www.martinreid.com/jaeger2.html
appears to have only two white primary shafts in the fashion one would
expect from S. longicaudus.  It might be a stretch, but I think one can see
just barely enough of the upperwing to rule out additional white primary
shafts.

Taken alone, this "stretch" of a clue is not enough to nail the ID, but I
think it provides supporting evidence for the conclusion of Long-tailed
Jaeger.

Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC USA

>Here are photos of a 2CY Long-tailed Jaeger seen on Nov 6 pelagic into the
>Gulf of Mexico:
>http://www.martinreid.com/jaeger2.html
>  - as this is a rarely-seen plumage in North America, I've included some
>pointers on IDing this type of bird;


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Subject: RFI: email for Willaim S. Clark
From: Bill Pranty <billpranty(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 11 Nov 2004 10:02pm

Good evening,

I am posting this for a friend, who is seeking a current email address for
raptorphile Bill Clark. Please send responses to Ed Kwater at
<himantopus(AT)aol.com>.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Bill Pranty
Avon Park, Florida


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Subject: Willaim S. Clark's email, redux
From: Bill Pranty <billpranty(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 11 Nov 2004 10:08pm

My apologies. I mis-copied Ed Kwater's email address. It is
<Himantopus(AT)msn.com>.

Sorry.

Bill Pranty


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Subject: regarding my "2CY" Long-tailed Jaeger pics
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 12 Nov 2004 7:40am

Dear all,
Another photographer did get an excellent shot of the upperside, and I
looked at it on the back of her camera right after seeing the bird.  it
showed the outer two P shafts being glaringly white, then the next 3 or so
shafts being only slightly paler than the rest of the feather (on both
wings), and thus contrasting quite a lot with the outer two.
Also not the lack of any pale at the base of the black cap above the bill -
I belive that Parasitics have a lighter spot here?
Cheers, and thanks to all who have contributed on this matter.
Martin

Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com


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Subject: rare birds of CA book
From: birdbooker(AT)zipcon.net
Date: 13 Nov 2004 5:52pm

HI:
 I understand that the CA bird records committee is working on a rare birds of
CA book. Does anyone know when it is due out?
--
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA USA
A.K.A.:Birdbooker
Rallidae all the way!