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ID-FRONTIERS for December 5-11, 2004
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Mountain Chickadee subspecies | Ian Paulsen | Sun, 5 Dec 2004 | 3:32pm |
| An interesting vireo in Nova Scotia (longish) | Ian Mclaren | Mon, 6 Dec 2004 | 6:42am |
| Wisconsin Gull | John Idzikowski | Mon, 6 Dec 2004 | 8:15am |
| Re: Wisconsin Gull | Peter Adriaens | Mon, 6 Dec 2004 | 8:54am |
| Re: An interesting vireo in Nova Scotia (longish) | Lethaby, Nick | Mon, 6 Dec 2004 | 9:12am |
| Re: Wisconsin Gull | John Pogacnik | Mon, 6 Dec 2004 | 9:23am |
| Odd plumages and vagrancy revisited | Jim Pike | Mon, 6 Dec 2004 | 7:27pm |
| RFH - Common Eider forms in New Hampshire. | James P. Smith | Mon, 6 Dec 2004 | 9:33pm |
| Hybrid white geese | Don Roberson | Tue, 7 Dec 2004 | 8:20pm |
| Two gulls from Italy: one is a mystery | Menotti Passarella | Wed, 8 Dec 2004 | 4:26am |
| Re: Two gulls from Italy: one is a mystery | Daniela.Detlef.Grube | Wed, 8 Dec 2004 | 5:47am |
| Mystery Finch in Florida | David Sibley | Wed, 8 Dec 2004 | 3:14pm |
| Strange gulls from corpus Christi | Martin Reid | Wed, 8 Dec 2004 | 7:43pm |
| Dove from Nebraska | Ross Silcock | Wed, 8 Dec 2004 | 9:50pm |
| Re: Dove from Nebraska | Kevin McGowan | Thu, 9 Dec 2004 | 6:49am |
| Re: An interesting vireo in Nova Scotia (longish) | SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM | Thu, 9 Dec 2004 | 10:16am |
| american herring gull? | =?iso-8859-1?q?kjell | Thu, 9 Dec 2004 | 1:59pm |
| Re: american herring gull? | Martin Reid | Thu, 9 Dec 2004 | 3:43pm |
| Re: american herring gull? | Peter Adriaens | Fri, 10 Dec 2004 | 2:18am |
| Oddball Wigeon | Mark Stevenson | Sat, 11 Dec 2004 | 3:17pm |
| Re: Oddball Wigeon | Bruce Deuel | Sat, 11 Dec 2004 | 5:23pm |
| Oddball Wigeon | Jim Pike | Sat, 11 Dec 2004 | 7:06pm |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Mountain Chickadee subspecies
From: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker(AT)ZIPCON.NET>
Date: 5 Dec 2004 3:32pm
HI:
Does anyone have any experience with separating the subspecies of
Mountain Chickadee IN THE FIELD? Currently Washington State is having an
invasion of the species into the lowlands of the state. One person
commented that the bird here on Bainbridge Island looked like the Rocky
Mountain type illustrated in Sibley's books. I have a picture of the bird
in question if anyone be interested at looking at it?
--
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way!"
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: An interesting vireo in Nova Scotia (longish)
From: Ian Mclaren <iamclar(AT)DAL.CA>
Date: 6 Dec 2004 6:42am
All:
We've followed threads on Cassin's vs Blue-throated vireos before, but I
think there's more to learn.
In the last couple of weeks a numbers of us have been studying a late
"Solitary" Vireo in Dartmouth, part of Halifax, Nova Scotia. As many will
know, unseasonable and vagrant species often linger here at this time of
year, despite bouts of below-zero (Celsius). Most keen birders here who
have looked at it don't feel it is a Blue-headed as they know that
species, and some think it might be a Cassin's. I hesitate to invoke the
"H"-word,
Stunning photos of the bird, with I think the right exposure and
colour-saturation (the first shot is great), can be seen at:
http://www.pbase.com/cindycreighton/birds&page=8
Some other excellent photos at:
http://bernieb.smugmug.com/gallery/306987/5/
http://bernieb.smugmug.com/gallery/197387/8/12355523
The former are posted as somewhat underexposed, too contrasty, and too
saturated,but the latter are closer, compared with my field impressions.
The most informative shots are when the bird is less fluffed out, making
tone and feather-tract boundaries more clear. The darker (though not
worn-looking?) primary coverts suggest that it is HY. Others may help on
this.
Other photos, for the record, show a quite narrow white margin on inner
web of R6.
I have been getting generally undecided or negative opinions on the
possibilty of CAVI from a few westerners that I've consulted, most of
them, however, confessing no familiarity with late-fall, basic plumaged
Cassin's Vireo. Based on the photos at the second site (above) some
thought it too brightly yellow on the sides, in particular (used by some
as a main criterion for separating BHVI and CAVI in areas of migration
overlap), and some think it's too white-throated. CAVI (but not BHVI)
features seem to be the flat-gray tone of the head (with distinctly darker
lores), amount of olive in the nape and even more broadly in the head, and
in particular the blending of the auriculars with the olive and gray tones
of the neck. Even anteriorly, the gray of the head blends into the white
of the throat.
Most descriptions of CAVI stress the general paleness of the yellow/olive
sides. E.g. right from Ridgway : "underparts white passing on sides into
pale sulphur or primrose yellow and pale olive . . .; undertail coverts
pale primrose yellow or yellowish white." However, some web pictures do
show quite yellowish flanks. The throat proper is often described as
"white," although some look for duskiness there in distinguishing them
from CAVI. But, most descriptions and web photos are of spring or summer
birds, which become very dingy. There is only partial pre-nuptial moult
of body plumage in both BHVI and CAVI. Spring BHVI become a little off
white venrtally, and CAVI can become very gray there.
You can find fall Blue-headeds on the web among hand-held birds, e.g.,
from eastern banding stations. like:
http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/rouge_river/wsovi.gif
Note the way the bluish gray "cheeks" are sharply distinct from the very
white throat and neck area, right back to the end of the malar area.
There are many spring BHVI on the web, and they may show some graying of
the neck area, but maintain the sharp malar-neck transition.
You can find a characteristically more dusky-throated spring CAVI
(possibly underexposed) at
http://www.avesphoto.com/website/NA/species/VIRCAS-1.htm
There is, however, an interesting set of photos of breeding-season CAVI in
California that are I believe underexposed and maybe too colour-saturated.
Nevertheless, they show quite whitish underparts and retention of
considerable yellowish on the flanks of this (these) individual(s).
Perhaps such a bird in Basic plumage would be more like ours.
http://birdcentral.net/solitary.htm
Fall Cassin's Vireos seem difficult to find on the web. A fall bird from
California is quite similar to ours, although the photo is possibly
overexposed. It is at:
http://www.stanford.edu/~petelat1/photos/cavi-5.jpg
Note the way the gray of the head blends into the gray and olive of the
neck, and note also the whiter throat area.
Another fall bird, back only, taken in Colorado in December, is at:
http://www.bdi.org/GalleryThumbs.cfm?Source=David%20Elwonger
Although the "cheeks" seem more sharply cut off from the throat, this may
be because of the angle. But, note that the gray tone of the head,
although strongly cut off from the olive-green of the back, is not that
typical of Blue-headed Vireo.
So, while web and published sources are useful, before any decisions about
our vireo might be made, it would be helpful to have input most especially
from those who know the birds in basic plumage, in SW US or Mexico. On
present evidence, we may have to leave it in limbo, but we'll have learned
something on the way. As usual, I would be pleased to have any direct
comments to me or a wider discussion of this interesting (to us) vireo in
Nova Scotia.
Cheers, Ian
Ian A. McLaren
Biology Department
Dalhousie University
Halifax, NS B3H 4J1
Ian A. McLaren
Professor Emeritus
Biology Department
Dalhousie University
Halifax, NS B3H 4J1
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Wisconsin Gull
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 6 Dec 2004 8:15am
This Basic 2, dark-backed bird was found Sunday in eastern Wisconsin; size
was no bigger than HERGs nearby-
http://homepage.mac.com/dhandler/PhotoAlbum9.html
Here's a paste of head shots with the bird's bill better illustrated using
Westerns of the same age for comparison as WEGU was initially suggested by
the observers. Is this bird just a robust graellsii Lesser?
http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/gulls/headbill.jpg
John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Wisconsin Gull
From: Peter Adriaens <peter.adriaens(AT)dutchbirding.nl>
Date: 6 Dec 2004 8:54am
> This Basic 2, dark-backed bird was found Sunday in eastern Wisconsin; size
> was no bigger than HERGs nearby-
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/dhandler/PhotoAlbum9.html
>
> Here's a paste of head shots with the bird's bill better illustrated using
> Westerns of the same age for comparison as WEGU was initially suggested by
> the observers. Is this bird just a robust graellsii Lesser?
>
> http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/gulls/headbill.jpg
>
> John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
>
Hi John,
this bird looks a lot like a 'robust graellsii' indeed.
Perhaps there is one tiny detail worth mentioning, however: in the second
photograph ("Gull_2") there seems to be a hint of a minute pale mirror on
the underside of the outermost primary -- which strikes me as odd for a
Lesser Black-backed Gull of this age (second winter).
Also, the barring on the rump seems a little stronger than usual at this
age. To me, the tail does not look all-dark, the three outermost rectrices
showing a lot of barring instead, leaving only a rather thin, solid
tailband at the end of these feathers (cf. photo "Gull_3"). Another thing
I notice, is that the brown wash on the lower hindneck appears quite
solid, too.
It is probably not possible to rule out Lesser Black-backed Gull, but I
cannot help wondering about the possibility of a Herring x Great
Black-backed Gull... You write that the bird was "no bigger than HERGs
nearby", but was it actually smaller or was it the same size ?
Regards,
Peter
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: An interesting vireo in Nova Scotia (longish)
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 6 Dec 2004 9:12am
This bird certainly looks OK for a Cassin's to me, but I'm not sure how
dull BHVI can look.
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian Mclaren
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:42 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] An interesting vireo in Nova Scotia (longish)
All:
We've followed threads on Cassin's vs Blue-throated vireos before, but I
think there's more to learn.
In the last couple of weeks a numbers of us have been studying a late
"Solitary" Vireo in Dartmouth, part of Halifax, Nova Scotia. As many
will
know, unseasonable and vagrant species often linger here at this time of
year, despite bouts of below-zero (Celsius). Most keen birders here who
have looked at it don't feel it is a Blue-headed as they know that
species, and some think it might be a Cassin's. I hesitate to invoke
the
"H"-word,
Stunning photos of the bird, with I think the right exposure and
colour-saturation (the first shot is great), can be seen at:
http://www.pbase.com/cindycreighton/birds&page=8
Some other excellent photos at:
http://bernieb.smugmug.com/gallery/306987/5/
http://bernieb.smugmug.com/gallery/197387/8/12355523
The former are posted as somewhat underexposed, too contrasty, and too
saturated,but the latter are closer, compared with my field impressions.
The most informative shots are when the bird is less fluffed out, making
tone and feather-tract boundaries more clear. The darker (though not
worn-looking?) primary coverts suggest that it is HY. Others may help on
this.
Other photos, for the record, show a quite narrow white margin on inner
web of R6.
I have been getting generally undecided or negative opinions on the
possibilty of CAVI from a few westerners that I've consulted, most of
them, however, confessing no familiarity with late-fall, basic plumaged
Cassin's Vireo. Based on the photos at the second site (above) some
thought it too brightly yellow on the sides, in particular (used by some
as a main criterion for separating BHVI and CAVI in areas of migration
overlap), and some think it's too white-throated. CAVI (but not BHVI)
features seem to be the flat-gray tone of the head (with distinctly
darker
lores), amount of olive in the nape and even more broadly in the head,
and
in particular the blending of the auriculars with the olive and gray
tones
of the neck. Even anteriorly, the gray of the head blends into the
white
of the throat.
Most descriptions of CAVI stress the general paleness of the
yellow/olive
sides. E.g. right from Ridgway : "underparts white passing on sides
into
pale sulphur or primrose yellow and pale olive . . .; undertail coverts
pale primrose yellow or yellowish white." However, some web pictures do
show quite yellowish flanks. The throat proper is often described as
"white," although some look for duskiness there in distinguishing them
from CAVI. But, most descriptions and web photos are of spring or
summer
birds, which become very dingy. There is only partial pre-nuptial moult
of body plumage in both BHVI and CAVI. Spring BHVI become a little off
white venrtally, and CAVI can become very gray there.
You can find fall Blue-headeds on the web among hand-held birds, e.g.,
from eastern banding stations. like:
http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/rouge_river/wsovi.gif
Note the way the bluish gray "cheeks" are sharply distinct from the very
white throat and neck area, right back to the end of the malar area.
There are many spring BHVI on the web, and they may show some graying of
the neck area, but maintain the sharp malar-neck transition.
You can find a characteristically more dusky-throated spring CAVI
(possibly underexposed) at
http://www.avesphoto.com/website/NA/species/VIRCAS-1.htm
There is, however, an interesting set of photos of breeding-season CAVI
in
California that are I believe underexposed and maybe too
colour-saturated.
Nevertheless, they show quite whitish underparts and retention of
considerable yellowish on the flanks of this (these) individual(s).
Perhaps such a bird in Basic plumage would be more like ours.
http://birdcentral.net/solitary.htm
Fall Cassin's Vireos seem difficult to find on the web. A fall bird from
California is quite similar to ours, although the photo is possibly
overexposed. It is at:
http://www.stanford.edu/~petelat1/photos/cavi-5.jpg
Note the way the gray of the head blends into the gray and olive of the
neck, and note also the whiter throat area.
Another fall bird, back only, taken in Colorado in December, is at:
http://www.bdi.org/GalleryThumbs.cfm?Source=David%20Elwonger
Although the "cheeks" seem more sharply cut off from the throat, this
may
be because of the angle. But, note that the gray tone of the head,
although strongly cut off from the olive-green of the back, is not that
typical of Blue-headed Vireo.
So, while web and published sources are useful, before any decisions
about
our vireo might be made, it would be helpful to have input most
especially
from those who know the birds in basic plumage, in SW US or Mexico. On
present evidence, we may have to leave it in limbo, but we'll have
learned
something on the way. As usual, I would be pleased to have any direct
comments to me or a wider discussion of this interesting (to us) vireo
in
Nova Scotia.
Cheers, Ian
Ian A. McLaren
Biology Department
Dalhousie University
Halifax, NS B3H 4J1
Ian A. McLaren
Professor Emeritus
Biology Department
Dalhousie University
Halifax, NS B3H 4J1
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Wisconsin Gull
From: John Pogacnik <jpogacnik(AT)LAKEMETROPARKS.COM>
Date: 6 Dec 2004 9:23am
A gull very similar in appearance was found in Cleveland in March 2003.
There was some discussion to its identity and what we eventually figured was
that this bird was a great black-backed x herring hybrid. Our bird was at
the large size extreme for herring gull. While the coloration appeared
similar to western gull there was some concern about the structure of the
bill and bird in general that led to the conclusion about it being a hybrid.
I probably saved some of my notes on that bird. When I get home I'll check.
Here is a link to some photos of that bird:
http://www.aves.net/rarities/possible_WesternGull_inOhio-March03.html
John Pogacnik
4765 Lockwood Road
Perry, Ohio 44081
(440) 259-2751
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Odd plumages and vagrancy revisited
From: Jim Pike <jpike44(AT)EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: 6 Dec 2004 7:27pm
HI, My apologies for returning to an already discarded thread, but I would
like to respond to some recent comments about odd plumages and vagrancy.
For all the reasons already outlined (genetic abnormality, ectoparasite
load, illness, stress, etc.), I too think it makes marvelous theoretical
sense that it may be more likely for a vagrant to be odd-looking than for
it to look like a typical individual. However, if we take this point to
its logical conclusion, then it might be said that the presence of pink
legs and red anterior to the black on the bill of the Trondheim gull are
actually points in favor of it being a California Gull! Clearly, few if
any of us think this is the case. In practical terms, vagrant birds by and
large look typical of their species. Thus, when the California Rare Birds
Committee soon comes out with its book chock full of rarities, I bet it
will be chock full of vagrant birds that looked fairly typical of their
species. Applying the theory that an odd-looking Western Gull is likelier
to show up in Wisconsin than a typical one wouldn’t have helped anyone
come to the more logical conclusion that hybridization is behind this
recent bird’s physical appearance. Nor do I think it is any assistance in
coming to conclusions about what most logically accounts for the Trondheim
gull’s appearance. Granted, in the latter example, we are partly talking
about soft parts coloration, which can be notoriously plastic in gulls.
Nevertheless, despite the “odd looking bird” theory, I would bet my life
savings (meager as that might be----I’m a birder!) that if and when the WP
gets its first good California Gull, that ALL of its features (soft parts
included) will be consistent with those of a typical CAGU.
Jim Pike
Huntington Beach, CA
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: RFH - Common Eider forms in New Hampshire.
From: "James P. Smith" <keenbirder(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 6 Dec 2004 9:33pm
Hi birders,
On December 3rd, 2004 I came across a drake Common
Eider with a largely orange bill on the New Hampshire
coast. The bird was with a small party of four other
Common Eiders, including another male. The bill color
and bill shape was clearly different between the two
males, but both birds had rounded bill lobes. I may be
limited in my references but I can only find reference
to two forms of Common Eider with rounded bill lobes -
S.m. dresseri (Atlantic North America) and S.m.
sedentaria (Hudson Bay area).
To the best of my knowledge, only S.m.dresseri has
occurred in New Hampshire. I couldn’t find any decent
pics of S.m.sedentaria on the web, so I should happy
if anyone could point me towards a few.
I’d be even happier if some of you could take at look
at the images and share your knowledge. I guess my
questions are;
1) Is sedentaria known as a straggler outside of the
normal range?
2) Can dresseri show as much variation in head and
bill structure as the observations and the images
would suggest?
Images of the orange-billed male can be found here;
http://keenbirding.com/Pages/CommonEider.html
Images of the other male (dresseri?)in the group;
http://keenbirding.com/Pages/CommonEider2.html
And images of both birds together;
http://keenbirding.com/Pages/CommonEidermales.html
Your comments would be welcome,
Cheers!,
James P. Smith
Keene, NH.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Hybrid white geese
From: Don Roberson <creagrus(AT)montereybay.com>
Date: 7 Dec 2004 8:20pm
Potential hybrids between Ross's and Snow Geese have been discussed
several times on the Eastern chat lines, and I published a short note on
this topic, with examples from both East and West, back in 1993. A
couple of days ago, Rita Carratello and I found an interesting white
goose on Crespi Pond, here on the Monterey Peninsula, California. I have
now obtained some digiscoped photos and have put together a photo
discussion at http://montereybay.com/creagrus/hybgoose.html
Our take is that the Crespi bird may be a hybrid or introgressant, but
it looks nothing like the other potential hybrid photo'd there in 1990.
This one has a lot more 'Snow Goose' characters and could be a smallish
Snow Goose, I suppose. But numerous points trouble me and, at the
present, I think hybrid or introgressant may be the better call. What do
you think? Comments welcome.
Don Roberson
Pacific Grove CA
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Two gulls from Italy: one is a mystery
From: Menotti Passarella <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT>
Date: 8 Dec 2004 4:26am
Hi all.
The first one is a Lesser Black-backed Gull second winter with unmoulted
wingtips on 30 November 2004; photos taken at San Salvo, Chieti, Adriatic, S
Italy:
http://www.extracon.org/Gabbiani/Larus_fuscus01web
http://www.extracon.org/Gabbiani/Larus_fuscus03web
Is it an intermedius or a possible Baltic Gull according to the moult ?
The second one is a true mystery, even it shows to me the jizz of a Herring
Gull; it appears to be a second winter with moulting wings and tracks of a
solid black band on the tail; note the 1W Yellow-legged Gull in the
backside:
http://www.extracon.org/Gabbiani/mystery122
http://www.extracon.org/Gabbiani/mystery124
Dark as an American...
Photos taken at Ravenna, Adriatic, NE Italy, on 7 December 2004
The whole album shows a set of the typical wintering gulls in NE Italy:
Yellow-legged, Caspian, Herring and Lesser Black-backed:
http://www.extracon.org/Gabbiani?page=1
Thanks for comments
Menotti Passarella
info(AT)birdingitaly.com
www.birdingitaly.net
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Two gulls from Italy: one is a mystery
From: "Daniela.Detlef.Gruber(AT)t-online.de" <Daniela.Detlef.Gruber@T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: 8 Dec 2004 5:47am
Hi Menotti, ALL.
> Is it an intermedius or a possible Baltic Gull according to the moult
?
This LBBG looks in any respect quite typical to a Baltic Gull to me.
> The second one is a true mystery…
Indeed, the “mystery gull” does NOT look typical to the majority of
Herring Gulls from Northern Europe, but you will find in any larger
group individuals matching this one.
Assuming that with these “exceptions” there are a few but certainly not
all “American”, I doubt that the depicted Herring Gull is one of the
other side of the pond.
> The whole album shows a set of the typical wintering gulls in NE
Italy:
Yellow-legged, Caspian, Herring and Lesser Black-backed
I fully agree with the ID notes on the other gulls shown in that
gallery.
Best regards
Detlef Gruber
-----Original Message-----
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:26:32 +0100
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Two gulls from Italy: one is a mystery
From: Menotti Passarella <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT>
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Hi all.
The first one is a Lesser Black-backed Gull second winter with unmoulted
wingtips on 30 November 2004; photos taken at San Salvo, Chieti,
Adriatic, S
Italy:
http://www.extracon.org/Gabbiani/Larus_fuscus01web
http://www.extracon.org/Gabbiani/Larus_fuscus03web
Is it an intermedius or a possible Baltic Gull according to the moult ?
The second one is a true mystery, even it shows to me the jizz of a
Herring
Gull; it appears to be a second winter with moulting wings and tracks of
a
solid black band on the tail; note the 1W Yellow-legged Gull in the
backside:
http://www.extracon.org/Gabbiani/mystery122
http://www.extracon.org/Gabbiani/mystery124
Dark as an American...
Photos taken at Ravenna, Adriatic, NE Italy, on 7 December 2004
The whole album shows a set of the typical wintering gulls in NE Italy:
Yellow-legged, Caspian, Herring and Lesser Black-backed:
http://www.extracon.org/Gabbiani?page=1
Thanks for comments
Menotti Passarella
info(AT)birdingitaly.com
www.birdingitaly.net
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Mystery Finch in Florida
From: David Sibley <david_sibley(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 8 Dec 2004 3:14pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Over the last week or so, Steve Backes has had a strange finch visiting his
feeder in Florida. He has posted a few video stills at his website
http://rowdy13.tripod.com/birds/mysteryfinch.html
The bird apparently visits with a flock of American Goldfinches, and Steve
describes the appearance as "everything pretty much looks like a goldfinch
with the exception of the streaking. Some have commented on the bill shape
and size but I think there may be some misleading angles and lighting on
some of the pictures. Finch5 is probably the best shot of the bill. The
flanks have appeared more buff colored and the streaks have been more
noticeable in my observations than I am able to capture on film."
It's easy to see the American Goldfinch qualities in the head pattern, wing
pattern, bill shape, etc, but the fine dark streaks on the flanks, back, and
undertail coverts are unlike any American Goldfinch I've seen. Also, the
mostly dark outer tail feathers with just a pale fringe on the inner edge
are wrong for American Goldfinch. The other logical choice of Pine Siskin
works for the streaks and the dark tail but is easily ruled out by the thick
bill, unstreaked face and crown, blackish wings with contrasting pale
markings, and the relatively sparse streaking.
My best guess is a hybrid American Goldfinch x Pine Siskin, which has never
been recorded to my knowledge. A couple of things that concern me about this
theory are that the bill and wing pattern both seem so much like a
goldfinch, with no Pine Siskin influence showing, although this does not
rule out a hybrid by any means.
Other possibilities include an American Goldfinch x cagebird cross, but I
haven't done the research to see if there are any likely possibilities; I
suspect there is nothing that would produce a bird looking so much like an
American Goldfinch. Alternatively it may simply be an aberrant American
Goldfinch with streaks and a dark tail.
Any comments or thoughts are welcome. If you respond privately please send
to both me and Steve Backes backes(AT)ij.net
David Sibley
Concord, MA
sibleyart(AT)yahoo.com
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Subject: Strange gulls from corpus Christi
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 8 Dec 2004 7:43pm
Dear all,
Firstly, I'd echo Detlef Gruber's comments on Menotti's gulls - the tail of
the mystery bird is just not found in normal Smith HERGS. I might even
suspect some Glaucous Gull genes in that one.
Now that December is here, it's Strange Gull Season again in Texas; here's
four teasers for you larophiles:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp54.html - might this be a CAGUxRBGU hybrid?
has this combo been documented??
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp53.html - might this be something other
than a dark smith? the inner Ps look rather dark, and the 2ndaries quite
long.....
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp51.html
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp52.html
- presumably paler variations on the normal northernmost Smith - or might
they be tainted with other paler genes?
This makes Empids seem easy..... (not really)
Cheers,
Martin
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
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Subject: Dove from Nebraska
From: Ross Silcock <silcock(AT)rosssilcock.com>
Date: 8 Dec 2004 9:50pm
Hi all:
http://www.rosssilcock.com/RedDoveEdit.jpg
This reddish dove was photographed in Kearney, Nebraska, this fall (2004).
There is a sizeable population of Eurasian Collared-Doves in the area, and
for 2-3 years what appeared to be a single White-winged Dove. There is
evidence (other than this pic) that hybridization occurred between the 2
species.
The dove in the photo seems to have characters of Eur.Collared-Dove and
White-winged Dove, but puzzling is the reddish hue and the white primaries
and tail feathers. Could leucism remove pigment such that a reddish hue and
pale flight feathers, as well as a white "collar" mark, result? Or could the
reddish hue and white flight feathers be better explained by intermixing of,
for example, genes from a reddish Rock Pigeon?
Any thoughts welcome (you can tell it's a slow fall in Nebraska).
Ross
Ross Silcock
P.O. Box 57
Tabor, Iowa, USA 51653
silcock(AT)rosssilcock.com
New Zealand Land and Pelagic Bird Tours
Birders' Checklist of the Pacific
www.rosssilcock.com
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Subject: Re: Dove from Nebraska
From: Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 9 Dec 2004 6:49am
This bird appears to be something produced by aviculturalists. I believe
it is the Ring Dove mutant known as "tangerine." (See a chart of available
colors at <http://www.slobberknockerlofts.com/dove_color_chart/> and
<http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/RNColor%20Pics/RingneckColorTable.htm.>;)
It doesn't seem to be widespread knowledge, but cage bird fanciers keep
Eurasian Collared-Doves and breed for mutants just the way they do all
other caged birds. I found someone specifically discussing breeding for
Ring Dove mutations in collared-dove at
<http://www.rupert-fish.co.uk/interests/dove_breeding/ECD-breeding.html>,
and he talks about producing tangerine Eurasian Collard-Doves. This is a
clear reminder that many of the collared-doves appearing around the country
are not actually spreading from the expanding breeding population but are
escaped caged birds.
Whether this bird is risoria or decaocto, I can't say.
Kevin
At 10:49 PM 12/8/2004 -0600, Ross Silcock wrote:
>Hi all:
>
>http://www.rosssilcock.com/RedDoveEdit.jpg
>
>This reddish dove was photographed in Kearney, Nebraska, this fall (2004).
>There is a sizeable population of Eurasian Collared-Doves in the area, and
>for 2-3 years what appeared to be a single White-winged Dove. There is
>evidence (other than this pic) that hybridization occurred between the 2
>species.
>The dove in the photo seems to have characters of Eur.Collared-Dove and
>White-winged Dove, but puzzling is the reddish hue and the white primaries
>and tail feathers. Could leucism remove pigment such that a reddish hue and
>pale flight feathers, as well as a white "collar" mark, result? Or could the
>reddish hue and white flight feathers be better explained by intermixing of,
>for example, genes from a reddish Rock Pigeon?
>Any thoughts welcome (you can tell it's a slow fall in Nebraska).
>Ross
>
>Ross Silcock
>P.O. Box 57
>Tabor, Iowa, USA 51653
>silcock(AT)rosssilcock.com
>New Zealand Land and Pelagic Bird Tours
>Birders' Checklist of the Pacific
>www.rosssilcock.com
*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
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Subject: Re: An interesting vireo in Nova Scotia (longish)
From: SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 9 Dec 2004 10:16am
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Greetings All
I am not so certain about this being a Cassin's. The yellow on the flanks
looks bright and clear in most photos and the throat/auricular contrast looks
sharper than I'd expect in a Cassin's. The secondary/tertial pattern looks more
like what I'd expect from a Cassin's and the head/nape contrast is more
Cassin's. But I'm not sure either of these are outside range of BHVI.
And Cassin's are brighter in fall than spring/summer.
I'm surprised this topic hasn't generated more discussion.
Matt? Others?
Steven Mlodinow
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Subject: american herring gull?
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?kjell=20mj=F8lsnes?= <kjellhybrids(AT)YAHOO.NO>
Date: 9 Dec 2004 1:59pm
Hi!
In november 2003 I photographed this dark herring gull
at Kvassheim in Western Norway. Could this be an
american herring gull (L Smithsonianus)? I think it is
a first winter bird, but can a second winter bird be
ruled out?
Pictures can be seen at:
http://www.feltornitologene.no/index.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1&pos=65
Click on the arrows in the left and right corner to
see more pictures.
Any comments?
Best wishes
Kjell Mjřlsnes, Norway
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Subject: Re: american herring gull?
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 9 Dec 2004 3:43pm
Dear Kjell/all
The upperparts would be fine for many Smith HERGs I see here in Texas,
except perhaps that the tertial white tipping seems more extensive than
typical but certainly matched by some individuals that I call - by default
as I have no way of really knowing - Smiths (ones I suspect are from the
far NW part of the range).
However, the apparent underparts would get me quite excited in Texas, as
the belly/flanks looks to be too lightly-marked, plus the large patch of
unmarked white on the vent is rare even in late Winter Spring, and unseen
by me on Smiths in December. Add to this that the undertail covert barring
seems a bit sparse - but again maybe in range of a few birds I've had to
default to Smith in Texas.
I've leave it to those on your side of the Pond to discuss the occurrence
of such dark individuals in the population of argentatus.
Cheers,
Martin
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: american herring gull?
From: Peter Adriaens <peter.adriaens(AT)dutchbirding.nl>
Date: 10 Dec 2004 2:18am
> Hi!
> In november 2003 I photographed this dark herring gull
> at Kvassheim in Western Norway. Could this be an
> american herring gull (L Smithsonianus)? I think it is
> a first winter bird, but can a second winter bird be
> ruled out?
>
> Pictures can be seen at:
>
http://www.feltornitologene.no/index.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1&pos=65
>
Hi Kjell,
this is a fine example of a
"herring-gull-that-looks-like-an-American-but-is-not-quite-right", a
category that seems to be ever growing in Europe.
As Martin has already pointed out, the biggest problem with this bird is
that the vent and under tailcoverts are rather poorly marked. Ideally, you
would want a first winter 'herring gull' with very strong barring in these
areas, reaching right up to the (uniformly dark) belly -- a pattern almost
recalling Pomarine Skua (with a little imagination).
An excellent article on the identification of Am. Herring Gull in Europe
was published in Dutch Birding 26:1 (2004).
Regards,
Peter
PS: A second-winter bird can be excluded by the pattern of the wingcoverts
and tertials, and by the remaining juvenile scapulars.
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Subject: Oddball Wigeon
From: Mark Stevenson <drbrdr(AT)WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: 11 Dec 2004 3:17pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hi all,
This link is to four photos of a wigeon photographed by Pierre =
Deviche in a flock of American Wigeon in Gilbert, AZ last week.=20
<http://www.ofoto.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=3Dc50cw6.c69at2ir&Uy=3D-b=
kxbe4&Upost_signin=3DBrowsePhotos.jsp%3fshowSlide%3dtrue&Ux=3D1&UV=3D7993=
39053646_329473331203>
"The head pattern was striking and quite different from that of an =
Eurasian or Amer. Wigeon: Compare with some individuals of the latter =
species on the pictures. Even under overcast sky and poor light, the =
face looks bright yellow and is neatly demarcated from the sides and =
back of the head, which are bright green. The crown (not really visible =
on the pics) is yellow/brownish. The chin is dark and the bill is pale =
(same as wigeon). The back of the body and rump also resemble this =
species. "
It has been thought to be a variant American Wigeon similar to one =
depicted in an article in "Birding" by David Sibley. Besides the =
question of what it is, there is the question of the frequency with =
which this variant occurs.
Good birding,
Mark Stevenson
Tucson, AZ
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Subject: Re: Oddball Wigeon
From: Bruce Deuel <bkrdeuel(AT)SNOWCREST.NET>
Date: 11 Dec 2004 5:23pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Though I couldn't see the pictures, because I'm not willing to join =
another group just to see them, the description is certainly familiar =
to me. I see 1 or 2 American Wigeon with this plumage per year at Gray =
Lodge Wildlife Area, Butte County, California, where upwards of =
50-100,000 wigeon winter every year. I vacillate between thinking it's =
a genetic anomaly or something to do with age, but in any case it is a =
regular phenomenon.
Cheers,
Bruce Deuel
Red Bluff, CA
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Mark Stevenson=20
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU=20
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 5:17 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Oddball Wigeon
Hi all,
This link is to four photos of a wigeon photographed by Pierre =
Deviche in a flock of American Wigeon in Gilbert, AZ last week.=20
=
<http://www.ofoto.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=3Dc50cw6.c69at2ir&Uy=3D-b=
kxbe4&Upost_signin=3DBrowsePhotos.jsp%3fshowSlide%3dtrue&Ux=3D1&UV=3D7993=
39053646_329473331203>
"The head pattern was striking and quite different from that of an =
Eurasian or Amer. Wigeon: Compare with some individuals of the latter =
species on the pictures. Even under overcast sky and poor light, the =
face looks bright yellow and is neatly demarcated from the sides and =
back of the head, which are bright green. The crown (not really visible =
on the pics) is yellow/brownish. The chin is dark and the bill is pale =
(same as wigeon). The back of the body and rump also resemble this =
species. "
It has been thought to be a variant American Wigeon similar to one =
depicted in an article in "Birding" by David Sibley. Besides the =
question of what it is, there is the question of the frequency with =
which this variant occurs.
Good birding,
Mark Stevenson
Tucson, AZ
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Subject: Oddball Wigeon
From: Jim Pike <jpike44(AT)EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: 11 Dec 2004 7:06pm
Echoing what Bruce said, I see birds with creamy cheeks like this with
some frequency in southern California (although I too was unable to see
all the photos). My apologies if I remember this incorrectly, but I
believe it was in Roberson's "Rare Birds of the West Coast" where it was
estimated that 1:100 AMWI have a plumage such as this (although it seems
rarer than that to me; maybe 1:500?).
Jim Pike
Huntington Beach, CA
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