ID-FRONTIERS for February 1-5, 2005

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Possible Kumlien's Gull in the Netherlands   J H    Tue, 1 Feb 2005   3:27am   Retarded Herring Gull or what ?   Menotti Passarella    Tue, 1 Feb 2005   8:30am   Re: Possible Kumlien's Gull in the Netherlands   Jonathan Simms    Tue, 1 Feb 2005   9:40am   Re: Possible Kumlien's Gull in the Netherlands   John Idzikowski    Tue, 1 Feb 2005   10:21am   Re: Possible Kumlien's Gull in the Netherlands   Jonathan Simms    Tue, 1 Feb 2005   12:22pm   Re: Possible Kumlien's Gull in the Netherlands   Martin Garner    Tue, 1 Feb 2005   3:46pm   The "retarded" Herring Gull returned !   Menotti Passarella    Wed, 2 Feb 2005   1:44am   Italy: a putative Heuglin's   Menotti Passarella    Wed, 2 Feb 2005   2:00am   Winter Wren Variation   Matt Sharp    Wed, 2 Feb 2005   3:02pm   Re: Fw: Tundra Swan   Norman D.van Swelm   Wed, 2 Feb 2005   5:22pm   Re: Kumlien's Gulls photos - more variation   Peter Adriaens    Thu, 3 Feb 2005   1:09pm   Re: Kumlien's Gulls photos - more variation   julian hough    Thu, 3 Feb 2005   10:24am   Kumlien's Gulls photos - more variation   Matt Sharp    Thu, 3 Feb 2005   9:59am   Kumlien's in Alabama?   Swmavocet(AT)AOL.COM   Fri, 4 Feb 2005   7:12pm   Re: Kumlien's in Alabama?   Bruce Mactavish    Sat, 5 Feb 2005   5:29pm   Re: Kumlien's Gulls photos - more variation   Bruce Mactavish    Sat, 5 Feb 2005   6:43pm

To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'. This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.

[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Possible Kumlien's Gull in the Netherlands
From: J H <jhvsteenis(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 1 Feb 2005 3:27am

Dear all,

A 2nd winter Kumlien's-type Gull was photographed on January 30 on the
island of Terschelling in the north of the Netherlands.

Three pictures can be seen at http://www.dutchbirding.nl/ (choose: picture
gallery).
Three more are at
http://www.lauwersmeer.com/php/fotokl.php?soort=vogel&vogelnr=1094&taal=nl&land=all&add=20050131

(if the link does not work, they can also be found by going to
www.lauwersmeer.com, choose: Foto's, then choose: Toegevoegd, choose:
Kumliens Meeuw)

It looks quite convincing to me, but what do the experts think?

Kind regards,

Jan Hein van Steenis
The Netherlands

_________________________________________________________________
Direct antwoord op je vragen: gebruik MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Retarded Herring Gull or what ?
From: Menotti Passarella <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT>
Date: 1 Feb 2005 8:30am

Hi all; a presumed "retarded" 4W Herring Gull was uploaded today at:
http://www.extracon.org/Gabbiani?page=9
Why "retarded" ?
It shows a wing of a nearly adult, while mantle, tertials and some covers
are of immature type;
bill is more typical of a 3W Herring Gull, and eye is even more "retarded".
Why Herring (and nor Yellow-legged Gull, that is the "default" gull in NE
Italy) ?
No Yellow-legged Gulls show that pinkish legs at this age; moreover the P6
apperas more typical of argentatus than of michahellis.
The mantle tone is in the range of michahellis, but we got here some adult
argentatus with this kind of mantle.
Last option: hybryd argentatus x michahellis...
Any comments ?
Menotti Passarella
info(AT)birdingitaly.com
www.birdingitaly.net


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Possible Kumlien's Gull in the Netherlands
From: Jonathan Simms <jaeger77(AT)T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: 1 Feb 2005 9:40am

Dear Jan and fellow lariphiles,

If this is a 2nd winter Kumlien's Gull (Larus glaucoides kumlieni ... ummmm
... for the sake of convenience), then I need some convincing. In my
experience (25 years in the Great Lakes region of North America) this bird
is considerably darker than I would expect for the reported age of the
reported "species". I agree that it is too dark to be a L. g. glaucoides, at
least too dark to be a typical Glaucoides.

Although I eagerly await a definitive, scientifically sound statement on the
status of Thayeri-Kumlieni-Glaucoides, I have, over time, come to the
opinion that Kumlieni is an intermediate form between Thayeri and
Glaucoides, possibly brought about via hybridization or introgression or
some yet unexplained alternative model.

To that end, I cannot help but wonder if this bird is one from the
Thayeri+Kumlieni mixed gene pool. Are there photos which compare size and
proportions relative to other gulls in the vicinity?

Kind regards,

Jonathan Simms
Moenchengladbach, germany


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Possible Kumlien's Gull in the Netherlands
From: John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
Date: 1 Feb 2005 10:21am

Is this bird really any darker than many Kumlien's seen inland in the Great
Lakes or even in Maritime winter flocks?
Compare this bird with these on Peter Adriaens page-

http://www.aerc.be/KumliensGull/2ndYear/Typical/index.htm

John Idzikowski, Milwaukee

----- Original Message -----
From: "J H" <jhvsteenis(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 4:26 AM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Possible Kumlien's Gull in the Netherlands

> Dear all,
>
> A 2nd winter Kumlien's-type Gull was photographed on January 30 on the
> island of Terschelling in the north of the Netherlands.
>
> Three pictures can be seen at http://www.dutchbirding.nl/ (choose: picture
> gallery).
> Three more are at
>
http://www.lauwersmeer.com/php/fotokl.php?soort=vogel&vogelnr=1094&taal=nl&land=all&add=20050131
>
> (if the link does not work, they can also be found by going to
> www.lauwersmeer.com, choose: Foto's, then choose: Toegevoegd, choose:
> Kumliens Meeuw)
>
> It looks quite convincing to me, but what do the experts think?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jan Hein van Steenis
> The Netherlands
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Direct antwoord op je vragen: gebruik MSN Messenger
http://messenger.msn.nl/


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Possible Kumlien's Gull in the Netherlands
From: Jonathan Simms <jaeger77(AT)T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: 1 Feb 2005 12:22pm

In my experience it is darker than the perception of what a typical Kumlieni
is, at least for 2nd winter. Granted it is hard to pin point 'typical',
except as the mean of a statistical distribution represented in, say, a bell
curve; but I would expect to see paler rectrices, primaries, secondaries and
coverts, especially in January-February. If this photo was taken in October,
then I would not have initiated a debate.

Kind regards,

Jonathan Simms
Moenchengladbach, Germany


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Possible Kumlien's Gull in the Netherlands
From: Martin Garner <martin.go(AT)VIRGIN.NET>
Date: 1 Feb 2005 3:46pm

Nice photos Jan Hein,

The birds looks within the range of what I have called kumlieni I have seen
a number
of times in this plumage in Ireland. There are certainly an above average
number of reports of Kumlien's Gulls in both Ireland and Britain at the
moment as well as (less interesting for some) a higher number of very pallid
creamy white 1st winter Glaucous Gulls which I reckon involve birds coming
from arctic Canada ('leuceretes') also in Britain and Ireland at the
moment...as well as the regular darker /browner/ more coarsely marked birds.

kumlieni must be pretty darn rare in the Netherlands
nice find!

Cheers Martin Garner

----- Original Message -----
From: "J H" <jhvsteenis(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 10:26 AM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Possible Kumlien's Gull in the Netherlands

> Dear all,
>
> A 2nd winter Kumlien's-type Gull was photographed on January 30 on the
> island of Terschelling in the north of the Netherlands.
>
> Three pictures can be seen at http://www.dutchbirding.nl/ (choose: picture
> gallery).
> Three more are at
>
http://www.lauwersmeer.com/php/fotokl.php?soort=vogel&vogelnr=1094&taal=nl&l
and=all&add=20050131
>
> (if the link does not work, they can also be found by going to
> www.lauwersmeer.com, choose: Foto's, then choose: Toegevoegd, choose:
> Kumliens Meeuw)
>
> It looks quite convincing to me, but what do the experts think?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jan Hein van Steenis
> The Netherlands
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Direct antwoord op je vragen: gebruik MSN Messenger
http://messenger.msn.nl/
>


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: The "retarded" Herring Gull returned !
From: Menotti Passarella <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT>
Date: 2 Feb 2005 1:44am

Hi all. The "retarded" Herring Gull returned recently on the same cliff
close to the Miramare castle along the Trieste shore, NE Italy ! A new photo
is available, besides the old one, at
http://www.extracon.org/Gabbiani?page=10
The species now is more obvious...
Any suggestions about the ageing ?
And about that dark eye ?
Thanks
Menotti Passarella
info(AT)birdingitaly.com
www.birdingitaly.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Menotti Passarella" <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 4:30 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Retarded Herring Gull or what ?

> Hi all; a presumed "retarded" 4W Herring Gull was uploaded today at:
> http://www.extracon.org/Gabbiani?page=9
> Why "retarded" ?
> It shows a wing of a nearly adult, while mantle, tertials and some covers
> are of immature type;
> bill is more typical of a 3W Herring Gull, and eye is even more
> "retarded".
> Why Herring (and nor Yellow-legged Gull, that is the "default" gull in NE
> Italy) ?
> No Yellow-legged Gulls show that pinkish legs at this age; moreover the P6
> apperas more typical of argentatus than of michahellis.
> The mantle tone is in the range of michahellis, but we got here some adult
> argentatus with this kind of mantle.
> Last option: hybryd argentatus x michahellis...
> Any comments ?
> Menotti Passarella
> info(AT)birdingitaly.com
> www.birdingitaly.net
>


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Italy: a putative Heuglin's
From: Menotti Passarella <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT>
Date: 2 Feb 2005 2:00am

Hi all. A putative moulting Heuglin's Gull was photographed at Ravenna, NE
Italy, last year:

http://www.extracon.org/Gabbiani?page=10

One of two photos permits to compare its mantle tone with a nearby 3cy
argentatus.

The bird, particularly the head, appears quite similar to the photo #58,
pag. 404, in KMO & HL' Gulls.

Note the moult stage in late Jan, the head size, the short tibias, the whole
size compared to the Herring Gull, the pinkish feet.

You may compare this bird with some putative Heuglin's from these websites:

http://aves.birdinkorea.net/report/03-03/page02.htm

http://www.geocities.com/birdsnap/heuglini2win.htm

http://user.chollian.net/~aves/photo-gallary/heuglins%20gull.htm

http://www2.kongju.ac.kr/srcho/pintail/2003/aug/0824.htm

Thanks for commenting...

Menotti Passarella
info(AT)birdingitaly.com
www.birdingitaly.net


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Winter Wren Variation
From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
Date: 2 Feb 2005 3:02pm

I put a few Winter Wren photos up at 
http://www.acnatsci.org/~wechsler/lightbox/ID-Front/WIWR.html

The reason is the bird taken in Cape Charles VA during the CBC on
12/30/04. It has struck most who have seen the photo as very reddish.

Incidentaly I had remarked to George (the photographer) prior to seeing the
photo that many birds, meaning specifically Swamp Sparrows and Carolina Wrens
had seemed very reddish to me that day.

Is this "just" individual variation? a digital artifact? I included the other
photos
for reference.

Best to all

Matt Sharp

Matt Sharp
Collection Manager
VIREO/ANS
1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
Philadelphia PA  19103
www.acnatsci.org/vireo
(tel.) 215-299-1069
(fax) 215-299-1182


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Fw: Tundra Swan
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 2 Feb 2005 5:22pm

Thank you John for making the pictures available to all and you Jo for the
Evans & Sladen paper. Evans & Sladen measured the amount of yellow from the
bill profile (300 Whistling <>104 Bewick's). Whistling's had at most 15.8 %
yellow while Bewick's' "darkies", had a minimum amount of 22.9% leaving a
gap of 7.1%.
A few so-called intergrades were also recorded. I find it rather hard to
decide on the percentage yellow let alone if the Dutch bird is a 22.9 %
"darky" Bewick, a 15.8% "paley" Whistling or an intergrade. However it looks
as if Bewick's has a different shaped lore compared to Whisling's, see f.i.
the various heads in David Sibley's book. Evans & Sladen dismiss the race
Jankowski from NE Asia as the amount of yellow falls within that of Eurasian
Bewick's. If the single picture in the photographic guide 'Wildbirds of
Japan' portrays a Jankowski than I wonder if the greyish-white iris means
anything. It would be interesting if the pictures Evans & Sladen used could
be made available to a wider audience.
Norman

> It looks like a "darky" Bewick's to me.
>
> The "Auk" paper is in Vol 97 #4:
>
> A COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS OF THE BILL MARKINGS
> OF WHISTLING AND BEWlCK'S SWANS AND
> OUT-OF-RANGE OCCURRENCES OF THE TWO TAXA
>
> MARY E. EVANS AND WILLIAM J. L. SLADEN
>
> You can download it at:
>
> http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v097n04/p0697-p0703.pdf
>
> I hope this helps.
>
>
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 20:56:18 -0600, John Idzikowski <idzikoj(AT)UWM.EDU>
> wrote:
>
>>Please answer to Norman or the group. Links to the digitals are below.
>>
>>John Idzikowski, Milwaukee
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
>>To: "John Idzikowski" <idzikoj(AT)uwm.edu>
>>Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 6:28 PM
>>Subject: Tundra Swan
>>
>>
>>> Dear John,
>>> We found a Tundra Swan today in a group of Whoopers near my home here in
>>The
>>> Netherlands. It looks like an American columbianus to us. However there
>>> seems to be an overlap with Eurasian bewickii as far as the amount of
>>yellow
>>> is concerned. As this bird has quite a bit of yellow I wonder what you
>>> think. Perhaps you would be so kind as to put the pictures on display. I
>>> noticed that a plate showing the variation in yellow has been published
>>> in
>>> The Auk some time ago. I don't have it alas.
>>> Many thanks on beforehand.
>>> All the best, Norman
>>>
>>http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/tswan.jpg
>>http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/tswan2.jpg
>>http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/tswan3.jpg
>>http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/tswan4.jpg
>>http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/tswan5.jpg
>>http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/tswan6.jpg
>
>
> --
> Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA 94044  jmorlan (at) ccsf.org
> Birding Classes in SF start Feb.8  http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/
> California Bird Records Committee  http://www.wfo-cbrc.org/cbrc/


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Kumlien's Gulls photos - more variation
From: Peter Adriaens <peter.adriaens(AT)dutchbirding.nl>
Date: 3 Feb 2005 1:09pm

>
> The Hatteras bird looks weird, and doesn't strike me as kumlieni in 2nd-w
> plumage...the eye looks dark, the bill looks more akin to a first-year and
> the darkness of the wings is strange - it even looks as though there is a
> mirror on P10???
>

Hi Julian,

a white mirror on P10 is absolutely normal for 2nd winter Kumlien's!

Peter


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Kumlien's Gulls photos - more variation
From: julian hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 3 Feb 2005 10:24am

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

The long island bird is glaucoides-like, though the amount of grey extending
down into the base of the primaries may be more than typical glaucoides shows.

I've seen a couple of birds like that in Canada (Long Point) in spring, though
wear at that point may be more a contributor to apparent "white-primaried"
kumlieni.

The Hatteras bird looks weird, and doesn't strike me as kumlieni in 2nd-w
plumage...the eye looks dark, the bill looks more akin to a first-year and the
darkness of the wings is strange - it even looks as though there is a mirror on
P10???

Not sure what I would call that....

Julian Hough

Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG> wrote:
I have put some Kumlien's Gull photos at the link below

http://www.acnatsci.org/~wechsler/lightbox/Id-Front/KuGu.html

The first is a white-winged adult bird photographed by Adrain Binns
on Long Island NY Jan 16 2005. I included some crops of the eye and
primaries.

Other than the eye color this bird would seem to fit glaucoides - mantle
paler than smith. Herring, white primaries, rounded head, short bill. Is the
darkness of the iris outside of the range of variation in glaucoides? I am not
sure anything definitive can be said about this bird regarding it's
origin/subspecific
id, but I think it is a nice example of the pale end of the spectrum of east
coast
birds.

Below the adult are some 2nd cycle birds. The bird from Hateras seems
fairly typical? though the darkness of the outer primaries seemed a bit
interesting in contrast to the pale inner primaries. The pattern reminded
me of a Herring Gull.

The DE bird seemed to be show an almost opposite wing pattern. Here
is a snip from one of the observers

>The interesting part is that the bird seen in flight (sorry no photos)
>really looked like a 1 year old: pale grey tail band that appeared mostly
>solid, coarsely barred rump, relatively uniform coloration to the
>upperparts, meaning no contrast in overall tone between flight feathers
>and mantle. The bird had a pale grey secondary bar. The interesting
>flight feature was the pale outer wing, which supports your observation
>about an odd molt. From the wrist out, cut almost perpendiclar to the the
>wings long axis, the pattern was decidely paler than the inner wing.

My observation on molt was the mix of feather colors on the mantle/scaps
with some browner feathers, some paler, and a few adult-type grey feathers.
My only explanation for such a mix was a pause in the molt of these tracts
which
could (theorhetically) lead to different colored feathers. Is that a plausible
explanation? Could it also have effected the wing molt?

Opinions welcomed

Matt Sharp

Matt Sharp
Collection Manager
VIREO/ANS
1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
Philadelphia PA 19103
www.acnatsci.org/vireo
(tel.) 215-299-1069
(fax) 215-299-1182

----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Kumlien's Gulls photos - more variation
From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
Date: 3 Feb 2005 9:59am

I have put some Kumlien's Gull photos at the link below

http://www.acnatsci.org/~wechsler/lightbox/Id-Front/KuGu.html

The first is a white-winged adult bird photographed by Adrain Binns
on Long Island NY Jan 16 2005. I included some crops of the eye and
primaries. 

Other than the eye color this bird would seem to fit glaucoides - mantle
paler than smith. Herring, white primaries, rounded head, short bill. Is the 
darkness of the iris outside of the range of variation in glaucoides? I am not 
sure anything definitive can be said about this bird regarding it's
origin/subspecific
id, but I think it is a nice example of the pale end of the spectrum of east
coast
birds.

Below the adult are some 2nd cycle birds. The bird from Hateras seems
fairly typical? though the darkness of the outer primaries seemed a bit 
interesting in contrast to the pale inner primaries. The pattern reminded
me of a Herring Gull.

The DE bird seemed to be show an almost opposite wing pattern. Here
is a snip from one of the observers

>The interesting part is that the bird seen in flight (sorry no photos)
>really looked like a 1 year old: pale grey tail band that appeared mostly 
>solid, coarsely barred rump, relatively uniform coloration to the
>upperparts, meaning no contrast in overall tone between flight feathers
>and mantle. The bird had a pale grey secondary bar. The interesting
>flight feature was the pale outer wing, which supports your observation
>about an odd molt. From the wrist out, cut almost perpendiclar to the the 
>wings long axis, the pattern was decidely paler than the inner wing. 

My observation on molt was the mix of feather colors on the mantle/scaps
with some browner feathers, some paler, and a few adult-type grey feathers.
My only explanation for such a mix was a pause in the molt of these tracts
which
could (theorhetically) lead to different colored feathers. Is that a plausible 
explanation? Could it also have effected the wing molt?

Opinions welcomed

Matt Sharp

Matt Sharp
Collection Manager
VIREO/ANS
1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
Philadelphia PA  19103
www.acnatsci.org/vireo
(tel.) 215-299-1069
(fax) 215-299-1182


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Kumlien's in Alabama?
From: Swmavocet(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 4 Feb 2005 7:12pm

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

This 1W gull has been present at Guntersville (north), Alabama, for the last
three days.

It appears to match what I expected a Kumlien's would look like but I'm
soliciting other opinions.  Anything wrong with this presumed i.d.?

Thank you one and all.

Steve McConnell
Hartselle, AL

http://members.aol.com/swmavocet/kumliens1.jpg
http://members.aol.com/swmavocet/kumliens2.jpg
http://members.aol.com/swmavocet/kumliens3.jpg

----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Kumlien's in Alabama?
From: Bruce Mactavish <bruce.mactavish1(AT)NF.SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 5 Feb 2005 5:29pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

This is no standard Kumlien's Gull.  The strong secondary bar is more
than expected on Kumlien's Gull but is good for Thayer's. The dark outer
primaries are OK for both Thayer's and Kumlien's, but out of proportion
compared to the overall pale upper parts for Kumlien's. The outer
primaries of Kumlien's Gull normally fade along with the rest of the
plumage in mid to late winter.  A Thayer's is more likely to retain
darkness in the primaries while the rest of the plumage fades.

The tertials now appearing barred and the scapulars being barred instead
of dark centered are more like Kumlien's than Thayer's. Not sure that
this could all be blamed on the southern sun bleaching.

The bottom line.  The secondary bar is too dark for Kumlien's Gull. I'd
vote for pale end or a normal but sun bleached Thayer's.

Bruce

Bruce Mactavish
St. John's, Newfoundland
Canada
bruce.mactavish1(AT)nf.sympatico.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Swmavocet(AT)AOL.COM
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 10:43 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Kumlien's in Alabama?

This 1W gull has been present at Guntersville (north), Alabama, for the
last three days.

It appears to match what I expected a Kumlien's would look like but I'm
soliciting other opinions.  Anything wrong with this presumed i.d.?

Thank you one and all.

Steve McConnell
Hartselle, AL

http://members.aol.com/swmavocet/kumliens1.jpg
http://members.aol.com/swmavocet/kumliens2.jpg
http://members.aol.com/swmavocet/kumliens3.jpg

----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----


[ << | >> | ^^ ]

Subject: Re: Kumlien's Gulls photos - more variation
From: Bruce Mactavish <bruce.mactavish1(AT)NF.SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 5 Feb 2005 6:43pm

The adult Iceland Gull from Long Island 16 Jan 2005 is probably a
Kumlien's Gull.  While this bird is slightly paler than the adjacent
Herring Gulls, I don't think it is pale enough for a good glaucoides
Iceland Gull which should be as pale a adult Glaucous Gull. The dark
shaded iris is another good sign of Kumlien's. From what I can tell in
the literature and photos in European birding journals, European web
sites and other sources, glaucoides Iceland Gulls should always have
pale yellow iris. If you look close at the cropped shot of the primaries
I believe there is a hint of darker gray in the gray part (not white
tip) of P10. The last place that retains dark in the wing tip pattern of
the slightest marked Kumlien's Gulls is not in the white tip area but in
the gray part of the feather above the white tip.  It may require a
microscopic view (possible with a scope at close range) to see a faint
peppering of darker gray in the leading web and running along the shaft
of the P10. This is invisible in flight. The actual difference between
this 'peppering' and no darker gray in the outer primaries is so slight
that one must come to the realization the some Kumlien's Gulls have no
darker gray in the outer primaries.

If it is possible to be sure about an adult glaucoides Iceland Gull, I
think characteristics would include upperparts as pale as Glaucous Gull,
pale yellow iris, extremely white wingtip pattern blending smoothly into
the pale gray upper wing and overall shape of small head with long
tapered wings creating a more elegant bird than Kumlien's.

The Dec. 27 , 2004 Cape Hatteras bird is odd. The outer four primaries,
tail band and upper tail coverts are too dark for Kumlien's. The
contrast with rest of upper parts seems unusual for Thayer's even. But
with such pale secondaries, one is more or less restricted to those two
species. The ghost mirror on P10 is sometimes present on 2nd winter
Kumlien's Gull but because of paler primaries not so easily discernable
as on this bird.  I would vote against Kumlien's and would be forced to
vote on Thayer's by default but feel uneasy about that as well.
Something is not adding up. Maybe the whole gull is under exposed.

The Delaware bird is a bog standard 2nd winter Kumlien's Gull. The
mottled back pattern including some adult-like gray feathers, the washed
out tertials and greater wing coverts, milky brown primaries, blotchy
brown marks on neck and two tone bill are typical of many Kumlien's.

Bruce

Bruce Mactavish
St. John's, Newfoundland
Canada
bruce.mactavish1(AT)nf.sympatico.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Matt Sharp
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 1:23 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Kumlien's Gulls photos - more variation

I have put some Kumlien's Gull photos at the link below

http://www.acnatsci.org/~wechsler/lightbox/Id-Front/KuGu.html

The first is a white-winged adult bird photographed by Adrain Binns
on Long Island NY Jan 16 2005. I included some crops of the eye and
primaries.

Other than the eye color this bird would seem to fit glaucoides - mantle
paler than smith. Herring, white primaries, rounded head, short bill. Is
the
darkness of the iris outside of the range of variation in glaucoides? I
am not
sure anything definitive can be said about this bird regarding it's
origin/subspecific
id, but I think it is a nice example of the pale end of the spectrum of
east coast
birds.

Below the adult are some 2nd cycle birds. The bird from Hateras seems
fairly typical? though the darkness of the outer primaries seemed a bit
interesting in contrast to the pale inner primaries. The pattern
reminded
me of a Herring Gull.

The DE bird seemed to be show an almost opposite wing pattern. Here
is a snip from one of the observers

>The interesting part is that the bird seen in flight (sorry no photos)
>really looked like a 1 year old: pale grey tail band that appeared
mostly
>solid, coarsely barred rump, relatively uniform coloration to the
>upperparts, meaning no contrast in overall tone between flight feathers
>and mantle. The bird had a pale grey secondary bar. The interesting
>flight feature was the pale outer wing, which supports your observation
>about an odd molt. From the wrist out, cut almost perpendiclar to the
the
>wings long axis, the pattern was decidely paler than the inner wing.

My observation on molt was the mix of feather colors on the mantle/scaps
with some browner feathers, some paler, and a few adult-type grey
feathers.
My only explanation for such a mix was a pause in the molt of these
tracts which
could (theorhetically) lead to different colored feathers. Is that a
plausible
explanation? Could it also have effected the wing molt?

Opinions welcomed

Matt Sharp

Matt Sharp
Collection Manager
VIREO/ANS
1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
Philadelphia PA  19103
www.acnatsci.org/vireo
(tel.) 215-299-1069
(fax) 215-299-1182