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ID-FRONTIERS for February 6-12, 2005
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Photographic guide to North American Shorebirds | Lethaby, Nick | Sun, 6 Feb 2005 | 11:55am |
| Alabama Kumlien's | Lethaby, Nick | Sun, 6 Feb 2005 | 11:59am |
| more gull pics from Corpus Christi, TX | Martin Reid | Sun, 6 Feb 2005 | 6:24pm |
| ID of Raptor Photo from Spain | Paul A. Guris | Mon, 7 Feb 2005 | 11:59am |
| ID of Raptor Photo from Spain | Eddie Chapman | Mon, 7 Feb 2005 | 1:10pm |
| ID of Raptor Photo from Spain | Angus Wilson | Mon, 7 Feb 2005 | 1:59pm |
| Re: ID of Raptor Photo from Spain | julian hough | Mon, 7 Feb 2005 | 2:21pm |
| Re: ID of Raptor Photo from Spain | GWPOTT(AT)AOL.COM | Mon, 7 Feb 2005 | 2:26pm |
| Re: ID of Raptor Photo from Spain | Paul A. Guris | Mon, 7 Feb 2005 | 3:05pm |
| Re: ID of Raptor Photo from Spain | Julian Hough | Mon, 7 Feb 2005 | 4:50pm |
| Vega Gulls? | Alvaro Jaramillo | Mon, 7 Feb 2005 | 5:19pm |
| RFI: "Flat-backed" Dowitchers | Matt Kenne | Mon, 7 Feb 2005 | 7:53pm |
| Re: RFI: "Flat-backed" Dowitchers | Matt Sharp | Tue, 8 Feb 2005 | 7:42am |
| [BIRDW01] ID of Raptor Photo from Spain | john miles | Tue, 8 Feb 2005 | 3:56pm |
| RFF: another gull that looks like (gulp) Atlantic
YLGU - but this time a 2nd winter | Martin Reid | Tue, 8 Feb 2005 | 7:30pm |
| Re: RFI: "Flat-backed" Dowitchers | Matt Kenne | Tue, 8 Feb 2005 | 8:48pm |
| RE : ID of Raptor Photo from Spain | =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierr | Wed, 9 Feb 2005 | 3:38am |
| Help with swift ID | Trevor Hardaker - ZE | Wed, 9 Feb 2005 | 9:25am |
| Re: Help with swift ID | Dick Newell | Wed, 9 Feb 2005 | 12:46pm |
| More gulls! | Alvaro Jaramillo | Wed, 9 Feb 2005 | 3:57pm |
| Canada Goose article | Ian Paulsen | Wed, 9 Feb 2005 | 4:08pm |
| Re: More gulls! | Phillip Pickering | Thu, 10 Feb 2005 | 12:16am |
| Galerida larks | Alex Lees | Thu, 10 Feb 2005 | 2:15am |
| RFH: expert on tern chick ID | Martin Reid | Thu, 10 Feb 2005 | 5:11am |
| Help with a gull in Maryland | Jlstasz(AT)AOL.COM | Thu, 10 Feb 2005 | 7:37pm |
| possible Slaty-backed Gull | Michael L. P. Retter | Fri, 11 Feb 2005 | 12:12am |
| Re: possible Slaty-backed Gull | Phillip Pickering | Fri, 11 Feb 2005 | 9:58am |
| Re: possible Slaty-backed Gull | Lethaby, Nick | Fri, 11 Feb 2005 | 10:11am |
| WIWR variation | Matt Sharp | Fri, 11 Feb 2005 | 10:24am |
| Re: possible Slaty-backed Gull | Phillip Pickering | Fri, 11 Feb 2005 | 10:30am |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
|
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Photographic guide to North American Shorebirds
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 6 Feb 2005 11:55am
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
All:
=20
I just received a copy of Dennis Paulson's new photographic guide to N.
American Shorebirds. This looks to be a pretty good book and I will try
to publish a more detailed review at some point. I was glad to see that
that the id text was greatly expanded from the first draft. The number
of photos per species varies from 2-about 15, with good attention paid
to subspecies etc. Certainly should be a good addition to anyone's
library.
=20
Nick Lethaby
DSP/BIOS Product Manager
Software Development Systems
Texas Instruments
805 562 5106
nlethaby(AT)ti.com
=20
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Alabama Kumlien's
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 6 Feb 2005 11:59am
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
All:
=20
Although I would agree with Bruce McTavish that several features of this
bird line up well with Thayer's, the bill looks very small and stubby to
me for a Thayer's. Although a small female could presumably look like
this this, I would expect the bill to look a little less deep. I agree
that the tertial are not typical of Thayer's, but I have seem some like
this in CA.
=20
Nick Lethaby
DSP/BIOS Product Manager
Software Development Systems
Texas Instruments
805 562 5106
nlethaby(AT)ti.com
=20
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: more gull pics from Corpus Christi, TX
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 6 Feb 2005 6:24pm
Dear all,
In-between taking birders to see our "tame" Rufous-capped Warbler south of
San Antonio, I sneaked in a visit to the landfill Friday, and got more pics
of a couple of the recent interesting gulls:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullnews.html
As always, comments are appreciated from those with relevant experience - ta!
Martin
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: ID of Raptor Photo from Spain
From: "Paul A. Guris" <lists(AT)paulagics.com>
Date: 7 Feb 2005 11:59am
The photo at the link below was identified as an immature Goshawk. I have had
a
short e-mail discussion about this ID. Before expressing my opinion to the
list, I would like to solicit comments from this list. Thanks.
The photo is at:
http://www.olivabedandbreakfast.com/Goshawk.jpg
-Paul
Paul A. Guris
See Life Paulagics
P.O. Box 161
Green Lane, PA 18054
www.paulagics.com
215-234-6805
paul(AT)paulagics.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: ID of Raptor Photo from Spain
From: Eddie Chapman <echapman(AT)ONLINE.NO>
Date: 7 Feb 2005 1:10pm
Hello Paul,
I too would go for immature Goshawk. The course drop like markings on the
birds underparts are a good ID feature when separating Goshawk from Eurasian
Sparrowhawk which has more tightly packed barring. There is of course juv
Levant Sparrowhawk, this species is boldly streaked, but the eye colour is
of the bird in the photo is wrong for this species. In addition I should
think that Levant Sparrowhawk is very rare in Spain, if it has been recorded
at all. On a last note, the birds legs seem to be thick-set, another good
feature pointing towards Goshawk.
All the best,
Eddie Chapman, Voss. Norway.
http://www.birdwatching-in-norway.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: ID of Raptor Photo from Spain
From: Angus Wilson <gadflypetrel(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 7 Feb 2005 1:59pm
Hi All,
Re: Paul's query about this pic.
http://www.olivabedandbreakfast.com/Goshawk.jpg
My first thought on this bird was why isn't it a harrier (eg juvenile Hen
Harrier)? Haven't checked any reference photos to see if the shape and
distribution of the spots is right but the wing projection looks long enough
but the stance seems harrier-like.
Are the broad white supercilia OK for juv N. Goshawk? One negative might be
that the facial disk is not sufficiently pronounced for a harrier?
Anyway, thought I'd toss this possibility into the mix. Let me know if you
think I should stick to seabirds!!
Cheers. Angus Wilson
_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: ID of Raptor Photo from Spain
From: julian hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 7 Feb 2005 2:21pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
After a quick glance, it looks ok for a juv. Goshawk - looks long-tailed,
bulky-chested and extensively patterned below (can't see any streaks extending
to the vent..). pale spots above good for gos, and the uppertail coverts look as
though they have a few pale fringes(?).
What are you thinking of Paul??
Angus Wilson <gadflypetrel(AT)HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
Hi All,
Re: Paul's query about this pic.
http://www.olivabedandbreakfast.com/Goshawk.jpg
My first thought on this bird was why isn't it a harrier (eg juvenile Hen
Harrier)? Haven't checked any reference photos to see if the shape and
distribution of the spots is right but the wing projection looks long enough
but the stance seems harrier-like.
Are the broad white supercilia OK for juv N. Goshawk? One negative might be
that the facial disk is not sufficiently pronounced for a harrier?
Anyway, thought I'd toss this possibility into the mix. Let me know if you
think I should stick to seabirds!!
Cheers. Angus Wilson
_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: ID of Raptor Photo from Spain
From: GWPOTT(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 7 Feb 2005 2:26pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
I think that the background for the breast streaking is too white for
immature Goshawk, which should be buffy. Like Angus, I thought of Harrier, but
was
also bothered by the facial disk which just doesn't look right, and possibly
the wings are a bit short too. Never been to Europe, so this is just an
opinion from the other side of the pond!
--Gary
Gary W. Potter
Sanger, Fresno Co., CA
GWPOTT(AT)aol.com
----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: ID of Raptor Photo from Spain
From: "Paul A. Guris" <lists(AT)paulagics.com>
Date: 7 Feb 2005 3:05pm
Julian et al-
I started this because I thought the same thing that Angus did. It looks like
a
harrier to me, though I'm not familiar enough with the European species to say
which one and I don't have any books here at work. So all of the following
remarks are off the top of my head, always a bad thing!
The reasons I think it's a harrier are:
- Head looks small and round for the body. I would have thought that Goshawk
would have a bigger, blocky head when sitting.
- The bill looks small, strongly hooked, with a really fine point.
- The bird appears to me like it has facial disks.
- The streaking on the breast and belly doesn't look right for Goshawk to me.
The streaking on the chest is fairly dense, but the streaks themselves are
pretty fine. I thought Goshawk had more teardrop shaped streaks.
- The markings towards the flanks look like chevrons. I didn't that Goshawk
showed anything like that.
- I thought that Goshawk often showed some buffier color, particularly on the
nape and sides of the neck. I might be WAY off on this one. Actually, I might
be WAY off on everything, hence the post to this list.
My initial opinion, for what it's worth.
-Paul
Paul A. Guris
See Life Paulagics
P.O. Box 161
Green Lane, PA 18054
www.paulagics.com
215-234-6805
info(AT)paulagics.com
Quoting julian hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>:
> After a quick glance, it looks ok for a juv. Goshawk - looks long-tailed,
> bulky-chested and extensively patterned below (can't see any streaks
> extending to the vent..). pale spots above good for gos, and the uppertail
> coverts look as though they have a few pale fringes(?).
>
> What are you thinking of Paul??
>
> Angus Wilson <gadflypetrel(AT)HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Re: Paul's query about this pic.
> http://www.olivabedandbreakfast.com/Goshawk.jpg
>
> My first thought on this bird was why isn't it a harrier (eg juvenile Hen
> Harrier)? Haven't checked any reference photos to see if the shape and
> distribution of the spots is right but the wing projection looks long enough
> but the stance seems harrier-like.
>
> Are the broad white supercilia OK for juv N. Goshawk? One negative might be
> that the facial disk is not sufficiently pronounced for a harrier?
>
> Anyway, thought I'd toss this possibility into the mix. Let me know if you
> think I should stick to seabirds!!
>
> Cheers. Angus Wilson
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: ID of Raptor Photo from Spain
From: Julian Hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 7 Feb 2005 4:50pm
Paul et al,
I'm fairly confident it's not a harrier, and we have to take into account
that we are comparing Goshawks and Hen Harriers in Europe, where plumage is
a little different and variable than those here in NA.
If it were a harrier, then the only plumage that would exhibit such well
marked streaks against a pale ground coloured breast would be an adult
female. The upperparts of the spanish bird show some retained pale tips to
the greater coverts indicating an immature, and based on the more uniform
scaps, I'm assuming it's partially moulted some body feathers and therefore
is in its 2nd cal yr (I'm no raptor expert, just going on assumptions here).
So, harriers in their 1-2nd Cal yr would not show a breast pattern with such
well-developed chevrons along the flanks combined with the dark,
longitudinal streaking. This pattern, combined with the dark crown lacking
any streaks, is also pro-Gos, and not typically seen in adult female
harriers.
The bird, at least to my eyes, doesn't seem to have facial disks - harriers
typically have darker earcoverts set off by pale crescent above and below
the eye, features seemingly lacking in the Spanish bird.
The cere looks dull, not yellowish as may be shown in harriers, and again,
more indicative of Gos.
Looking at the bird as a whole, the tail is long, as it should be in Gos,
and I think that the bird may look small-billed may be an illusion due to
the fact that the body is actually bulky in comparison, reducing the
proportions. To me, it looks OK for Goshawk as does the relatively large eye
(asomewhat orange-toned - again good for Gos and not harrier).
So, there's my opinion for what it's worth, I think that ageing it correctly
helps eliminate some features which may, at first glance, be suggestive of a
harrier, but on closer inspection don't fit the corresponding age.
Hope I'm right, or it's back to basics........
Julian Hough,
CT, USA
jrhough1(AT)snet.net
www.naturescapeimages.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul A. Guris" <lists(AT)PAULAGICS.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] ID of Raptor Photo from Spain
> Julian et al-
>
> I started this because I thought the same thing that Angus did. It looks
> like a
> harrier to me, though I'm not familiar enough with the European species to
> say
> which one and I don't have any books here at work. So all of the
> following
> remarks are off the top of my head, always a bad thing!
>
> The reasons I think it's a harrier are:
>
> - Head looks small and round for the body. I would have thought that
> Goshawk
> would have a bigger, blocky head when sitting.
>
> - The bill looks small, strongly hooked, with a really fine point.
>
> - The bird appears to me like it has facial disks.
>
> - The streaking on the breast and belly doesn't look right for Goshawk to
> me.
> The streaking on the chest is fairly dense, but the streaks themselves are
> pretty fine. I thought Goshawk had more teardrop shaped streaks.
>
> - The markings towards the flanks look like chevrons. I didn't that
> Goshawk
> showed anything like that.
>
> - I thought that Goshawk often showed some buffier color, particularly on
> the
> nape and sides of the neck. I might be WAY off on this one. Actually, I
> might
> be WAY off on everything, hence the post to this list.
>
>
> My initial opinion, for what it's worth.
>
>
>
> -Paul
>
> Paul A. Guris
> See Life Paulagics
> P.O. Box 161
> Green Lane, PA 18054
> www.paulagics.com
> 215-234-6805
> info(AT)paulagics.com
>
>
> Quoting julian hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>:
>
>> After a quick glance, it looks ok for a juv. Goshawk - looks long-tailed,
>> bulky-chested and extensively patterned below (can't see any streaks
>> extending to the vent..). pale spots above good for gos, and the
>> uppertail
>> coverts look as though they have a few pale fringes(?).
>>
>> What are you thinking of Paul??
>>
>> Angus Wilson <gadflypetrel(AT)HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Re: Paul's query about this pic.
>> http://www.olivabedandbreakfast.com/Goshawk.jpg
>>
>> My first thought on this bird was why isn't it a harrier (eg juvenile Hen
>> Harrier)? Haven't checked any reference photos to see if the shape and
>> distribution of the spots is right but the wing projection looks long
>> enough
>> but the stance seems harrier-like.
>>
>> Are the broad white supercilia OK for juv N. Goshawk? One negative might
>> be
>> that the facial disk is not sufficiently pronounced for a harrier?
>>
>> Anyway, thought I'd toss this possibility into the mix. Let me know if
>> you
>> think I should stick to seabirds!!
>>
>> Cheers. Angus Wilson
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>>
>>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Vega Gulls?
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)COASTSIDE.NET>
Date: 7 Feb 2005 5:19pm
Birders
Sorry for the cross-posting to those of you on all three of these lists.
Well, we have not seen the Slaty-backed Gulls for some time now, but they
could be there still. The gull flock in Half Moon Bay, CA numbers into the
many thousands, it is impossible to see them all and there is much daily
turnover. Well, as we have been carefully scrutinizing the gulls there we
have noted birds that fit our idea of what Vega Gulls (Asian member of the
Herring Gull complex) look like. Several birders including Ryan Terrill,
Steve Howell and myself had a quick look at a first cycle Vega Gull on Jan
30. Dan Singer photographed a good candidate (the same bird?) on Feb 2, and
today I saw what appears to be the same bird that Dan saw. The
identification of these birds is tentative, as they are gulls, and ID
criteria are still in their infancy. However, I think a very strong case can
be made for this bird (or birds if more than one is out there) being a Vega
Gull. Those of you still looking for Slaty-backed Gull should be on the
lookout for these Vega type birds as well. The genetic data suggests they
are not closely related to our smithsonianus Herring Gull. The AOU may end
up splitting this species from our Herring Gull, an action that has already
been taken by the Clements list as I understand.
Also, last winter I saw and photographed another which I also think is a
Vega Gull. Both birds can be seen here:
http://www.birdsofchile.com/vega.htm
Comments welcome. These pages are still under construction, I will
eventually replace the Birds of Chile header with something more
appropriate.
Cheers
Al
Alvaro Jaramillo
chucao(AT)coastside.net
Half Moon Bay, CA
Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
http://www.fieldguides.com/home.htm
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: RFI: "Flat-backed" Dowitchers
From: Matt Kenne <mkenne(AT)NETAMUMAIL.COM>
Date: 7 Feb 2005 7:53pm
Hi All,
Recently on a state birding listserv, it was mentioned that the members
of a large winter flock of dowitchers were identified as Long-billed
Dows because they showed humped backs. The post used Sibley's guide as
support, because it shows the adult nonbreeding Short-billed Dow labeled
"flat back" and the adult nonbreeding Long-billed shows a humped back by
comparison.
I'd taken that "flat back" label to indicate the difference between
feeding dowitchers and feeding Stilt Sandpipers as shown in the small
insert, so I'm wondering: Is there really a useful difference in feeding
shape/posture between the two dowitcher species?
Which reminds me of an old post on Sibley's Golden Plovers that didn't
receive any comments: Why is the juv Pacific Golden Plover labeled
"distinctly spotted nape"? Compared to what?
Thanks,
Matthew Kenne
Algona, Iowa
mkenne(AT)netamumail.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: RFI: "Flat-backed" Dowitchers
From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
Date: 8 Feb 2005 7:42am
There are side by side comparisons here:
http://www.crossleybirds.com/gallery/album04
I think the upper left photo shows the structural
differences well, but there are several other shots
throughout the page.
Matt
Matt Sharp
Collection Manager
VIREO/ANS
1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
Philadelphia PA 19103
www.acnatsci.org/vireo
(tel.) 215-299-1069
(fax) 215-299-1182
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: [BIRDW01] ID of Raptor Photo from Spain
From: john miles <miles(AT)KWIC.COM>
Date: 8 Feb 2005 3:56pm
My Spanish contact's opinion of the bird is that it is an immature Goshawk
molting into adult plumage. He did not think that this is a difficult bird.
John Miles
Jarvis, On
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: RFF: another gull that looks like (gulp) Atlantic
YLGU - but this time a 2nd winter
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 8 Feb 2005 7:30pm
Dear all,
I know that this is getting ridiculous, but today I found another YLGU
candidate in Texas - this time a 2nd-cycle/winter:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp74.html
- I feel that the short wings, heavy bill, and mantle shade a little paler
than LAGU all combine to rule out LBBG, and frankly nothing else looks
close except for the dreaded "H" word.... am I missing something?
Looking forward to some feedback - thanks,
Martin
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: RFI: "Flat-backed" Dowitchers
From: Matt Kenne <mkenne(AT)NETAMUMAIL.COM>
Date: 8 Feb 2005 8:48pm
This from pg. 318 in the new Shorebirds of North America photo guide by
Dennis Paulson that coincidently arrived in the mail today: "Difference
in posture when feeding sometimes evident, Short-billed with flatter
back, Long-billed with rounded back; significance and cause unknown."
Something new every day...
Matthew Kenne
Algona, Iowa
mkenne(AT)netamumail.com
Matt Sharp wrote:
>There are side by side comparisons here:
>
>http://www.crossleybirds.com/gallery/album04
>
>I think the upper left photo shows the structural
>differences well, but there are several other shots
>throughout the page.
>
>Matt
>
>Matt Sharp
>Collection Manager
>VIREO/ANS
>1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
>Philadelphia PA 19103
>www.acnatsci.org/vireo
>(tel.) 215-299-1069
>(fax) 215-299-1182
>
>
>
>
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: RE : ID of Raptor Photo from Spain
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierre-Andr=E9_CROCHET?= <pierre-andre.crochet(AT)CEFE.CNRS.FR>
Date: 9 Feb 2005 3:38am
Der all,
Yes, this is clearly a Goshawk.
Pierre
PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL // ATTENTION NOUVELLE ADRESSE EMAIL
Pierre-André Crochet
CNRS-UMR 5175 Centre d'Ecologie Fonctionnelle et Evolutive
1919, route de Mende
34293 Montpellier cedex 5
France
tel: + 33 6 07 32 60 75
+ 33 4 67 61 32 98
fax: + 33 4 67 41 21 38
pierre-andre.crochet(AT)cefe.cnrs.fr
-----Message d'origine-----
De : NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] De la part de Paul A. Guris
Envoyé : 07 February 2005 19:49
À : BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Objet : [BIRDWG01] ID of Raptor Photo from Spain
The photo at the link below was identified as an immature Goshawk. I have had a
short e-mail discussion about this ID. Before expressing my opinion to the
list, I would like to solicit comments from this list. Thanks.
The photo is at:
http://www.olivabedandbreakfast.com/Goshawk.jpg
-Paul
Paul A. Guris
See Life Paulagics
P.O. Box 161
Green Lane, PA 18054
www.paulagics.com
215-234-6805
paul(AT)paulagics.com
--
passerelle antivirus du campus CNRS de Montpellier
--
--
passerelle antivirus du campus CNRS de Montpellier
--
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Help with swift ID
From: Trevor Hardaker - ZEST for BIRDS <trevor(AT)ZESTFORBIRDS.CO.ZA>
Date: 9 Feb 2005 9:25am
Greetings from Cape Town,
Hopefully, some of you out there can help us with the identification of a
swift that was seen on Sunday north of Cape Town.
The bird was in a mixed group of swifts comprising mostly Common Swifts with
a few Littles, White-rumpeds and Alpines thrown in. It was picked up fairly
easily on its different structure and apparent paler colouring and was
tentatively identified as a Pallid Swift. Subsequently, a number of people
viewed the photos taken of this bird and agreed that it was, in all
likelihood, a Pallid Swift.
However, there has now been a suggestion that the bird is in fact a Common
Swift of the race "pekinensis". We were under the impression that
structurally, "pekinensis" should be the same as nominate "apus" whereas the
bird in question was noticeably different showing broader and
proportionately shorter wings, a proportionately shorter and bulkier "hind
body" and a shorter tail amongst other things.
We have put a few photos on the "recent rarity photos" page on our website
at www.zestforbirds.co.za of the bird under the label "Pallid Swift" (for
now anyway....) and would appreciate it if you could go and have a look and
let us know what you think. Unfortunately, the exposure in some of the shots
is not great and therefore does not show the mousy brown colour of the bird
accurately, but the general shape and structure is easy to see.
Please email me any comments you may have as to the identification of this
bird.
Thanks and regards
Trevor
--------------------------------------------------------
Trevor Hardaker and John Graham
ZEST for BIRDS
Cape Town, South Africa
Website: www.zestforbirds.co.za
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Subject: Re: Help with swift ID
From: Dick Newell <dick.newell(AT)ZEN.CO.UK>
Date: 9 Feb 2005 12:46pm
Re: http://www.zestforbirds.co.za/pallid01.html
Last month I thought I saw a Pallid Swift on Table Mountain (together with
African Black, Little, Fork-tailed and Alpine)) - until I realised how rare
this would be. The following day I saw large numbers of pale brown Swifts.
On a number of counts, I satisfied myself that they were not Bradfield's
Swift and I came to the conclusion that they were probably pekinensis. See
here:
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=1012
I suspect that separating pekinensis from Pallid is especially tricky. I too
would welcome comments as to whether I have gotten things right.
Dick Newell
Cambridge, UK
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Subject: More gulls!
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)COASTSIDE.NET>
Date: 9 Feb 2005 3:57pm
Birders
I know how Martin feels...yesterday I came across a bird that could be a
first cycle Slaty-backed Gull. The ID of this bird is the most tentative of
the lot yet, so I would appreciate any feedback on it, particularly from
those seeing lots of Western Gulls.
http://www.birdsofchile.com/sbgu.htm
Why doesn't an adult come my way?
Al
Alvaro Jaramillo
chucao(AT)coastside.net
Half Moon Bay, CA
Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
http://www.fieldguides.com/home.htm
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Subject: Canada Goose article
From: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker(AT)ZIPCON.NET>
Date: 9 Feb 2005 4:08pm
HI:
The latest issue of Western Birds came today nad there's this article of
interest:
Preliminary notes on the identification of cackling and canada geese. by
Bruce Deuel pages 181-83 with color photos on the back cover.
The bottom line is:" The extent of variation in all the suggeted
identification characters is currently unknown."
--
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way!"
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Subject: Re: More gulls!
From: Phillip Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 10 Feb 2005 12:16am
I see lots of Westerns and Western x Glaucous-winged and
even at a glance I would say this bird is beyond their normal
patterns of appearance both structurally and in plumage. I
agree with what Alvaro notes on the page about our conception
of 1st-cycle Herring x G-w appearance being necessarily
somewhat speculative, but I would still be more concerned
with ruling out that mix than with Western in this case. The
overall appearance seems closer to the (assumed) former
to me.
That said, I think this is a great Slaty-backed candidate and
I see no obvious reason to suspect Herring x G-w instead.
Structurally it does look great, especially head and bill shape.
I also find the pale fringes to the primary tips combined with very
dark tertials quite striking - most assumed Herring hybrids that
have obvious pale fringes seem to tend to also have contrastingly
paler tertials - one of the many reasons they look Thayer's-like.
Also striking are the un-Western-like remarkably wide pale
tips to the lower scaps.
Al, if you see it again throw a rock so you can get a wing
shot! :)
Cheers,
Phil
> I know how Martin feels...yesterday I came across a bird that could be
a
> first cycle Slaty-backed Gull. The ID of this bird is the most tentative
of
> the lot yet, so I would appreciate any feedback on it, particularly from
> those seeing lots of Western Gulls.
>
> http://www.birdsofchile.com/sbgu.htm
>
> Why doesn't an adult come my way?
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Subject: Galerida larks
From: Alex Lees <lincslister(AT)YAHOO.CO.UK>
Date: 10 Feb 2005 2:15am
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Hi all
Apologies for the somewhat "out of area" nature of this ID problem, but chances
are someone will have field-experience of the taxa in question and if could make
informed comments anyway....
Dave Showler and I visited southern India in Jan/Feb 2004 ostensibly for the
northern Nilgiri endemics but also to pioneer a site for Indian Bustard (Showler
et al 2004). On the way back from Nanaj we stopped at a site for Gaur and Tiger
on the east side of the Ghats (Dajipur) and there encountered a population of
Galerida larks that struck as subtly different from the Malabar Larks (G.
malabarica) that we had been seeing along the coastal strip. Popular wisdom
suggests that Malabar Lark exists allopatric with respect to Crested Lark (G.
cristata chendoola) to the north and Sykes's Lark (G. deva) to the east and is
effectively the ecological equivalent of Thekla Lark (G. theklae) which occurs
as close as east Africa) (Cramp 1988; Dickinson & Decker 2001). We both had
previous experience of all these species but were struck by how these birds
seemed to be heavier billed and paler than the birds we had encountered
previously. Neither of us could however claim to be particularly
familiar with the species. I took several slides and Dave sound-recorded the
birds (admittedly not that useful in splitting oscines) for future reference....
http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/alexanderlees(AT)btopenworld.com/album?.dir=1217
This took place almost exactly one year ago and since then we really don't seem
to have made that much progress. I spent a day at Tring on my return and having
photographed some skins of Neomorphus ground-cuckoos (the original objective)
had a tentative look at some of the Galerida skins. This opened up a can of
worms as the variability of birds in museum trays is perennially bewildering. I
photographed a range of birds and came to the tentative conclusion that the
birds we had photographed were just Malabar Larks albeit at their elevational
and distributional limit. However no soon as one case seemed closed then I
discovered another conundrum...
There were two large "Malabar Larks" collected from the southern end of the
Nilgiri Hills that were easily the size and shape of Crested Larks but largely
retained the plumage and bill-structure (smaller/broader-based) as malabarica. I
left Tring feeling that I knew much less then I thought I did when I came in.
Subsequently we received council from Pam Rasmussen who seemed interested at
first but then suggested that the apparent size disparity was due to the
stuffing technique and the apparent differences were the result of bleaching and
wear. Not having enough experience with skin preparation I can't really comment
but looking at the photos even if the tail was "forced up inside the body" then
primary projection on the large "malabarica" is still larger than the total
length of typical malabarica. We got in touch with Per Alstrom who noted that
malabarica was definitely monotypic and said he would have a look but has yet to
comment.
So it would be great to solicit comments from anyone who has:
1) seen Malabar Larks in the southern Nilgiris (ie not in Goa)
2) stuffs a lot of birds (!)
3) generally knows a lot about the genus!
At the end of the day birds are (very) variable and the seasoned museum
researcher might already be surpressing a wry smile but if they aren't then I'll
go back to Tring and measure the lot.
thanks
Alex
Cramp, S., (ed.), 1988. Handbook of the Birds of Europe the Middle East and
North Africa. The Birds of the Western Palearctic. V. Tyrant Flycatchers to
Thrushes:[i-vi], 1-1063 Oxford.
Dickinson, E. C. & Dekker, R.W.R.J. 2001 Systematic notes on Asian birds. 11.1
A preliminary review of the Alaudidae, Zool. Verh. Leiden 335: 61-84.
Showler, D., Lees, A., Nale, RN and Habib, B. 2004 Where to find: Indian
Bustard, Birding Asia (Bulletin of the Oriental Bird Club), 1:58-62
http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/alexanderlees(AT)btopenworld.com/album?.dir=1217
Alexander C. Lees
PhD Student
Centre for Ecology, Evolution and Conservation
School of Environmental Sciences
University of East Anglia
NORWICH NR4 7TJ
United Kingdom
---------------------------------
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
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Subject: RFH: expert on tern chick ID
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 10 Feb 2005 5:11am
Dear all,
please reply directly to José Luis - thanks.
Dear Martin,
We are interested in contacting some North American ringer who should be
expert on the chicks of Sterna caspia and Sterna nilotica. We have a debate
in Spain about the identity of a tern chick, and we would acknowledge
opinions from people who has handled chicks form these two species. Could
you suggest us some names to contact ?
Thanks in advance,
José Luis
_______________________________________________________________________________________
José Luis Copete
Handbook of the Birds of the World
Lynx Edicions
Montseny, 8
E-08193 Bellaterra, Barcelona, Spain.
Phone: +34-93 594 77 10
Fax: +34-93 592 09 69
jlcopete(AT)hbw.com
www.hbw.com
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
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Subject: Help with a gull in Maryland
From: Jlstasz(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 10 Feb 2005 7:37pm
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Hi Folks!
Today an usual first winter plumage gull appeared at Schoolhouse Pond, Prince
George's County, Maryland. This location is about 20 miles due easy of the
US Capitol Building. The county landfill about 2 miles north and 1000s of
birds pass by every day. A small fraction every day loaf for a while at
Schoolhouse Pond. Leseer Balck-back, Iceland, Glaucous and Thayer's are
regular found
amoung the usual Ring-billed, Herring, and Great Black-backed.
Photos are available at:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/matt_hafner/album?.dir=f253&.src=ph
Comments welcome.
Regards,
Jim Stasz
North Beach, MD
jlstasz(AT)aol.com
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Subject: possible Slaty-backed Gull
From: "Michael L. P. Retter" <mlretter(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 11 Feb 2005 12:12am
All this talk of Slaty-backed Gulls has got me
thinking more about a bird friends and I saw last
April.
I lean Slaty-backed on this bird, but Slaty-backed X
Vega has been suggested by someone whose opinion I
hold in very high regard. Smithsonianus has also been
mentioned, but I don't buy it.
I should mention that there are photos of birds (in
Grant for instance) of birds labeled Slaty-backed
Gulls that have extensively-patterned greater
secondary coverts. Therefore, I don't think the
greater coverts on this bird eliminate SBGU. But
whether these published photos are of SBGUs is up for
debate, I suppose.
Photos may be found at the following two links.
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/mja43/CorpusLarus/
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mlretter/album?.dir=5d9a&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos
Photos in the second link are all by Matt Hafner.
Any edcuated comments are welcome.
=====
========================
Michael L. P. Retter
Bloomington-Normal
McLean Co, Illinois
mlretter AT yahoo.com
309.824.7317
========================
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com
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Subject: Re: possible Slaty-backed Gull
From: Phillip Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 11 Feb 2005 9:58am
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/mja43/CorpusLarus/
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mlretter/album?.dir=5d9a&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos
Structurally it does suggest S-b, but the stark, high-contrast
2nd-gen scap pattern seems atypical, if not out of range for the
late spring date. S-b seem to consistently molt juvenile scaps
fairly early, usually if not always in 1CY, and 2nd-gen are
typically extremely worn/faded and lacking much in the way of
stark defined patterning (if they had any to start with), after Feb.
On the other hand the 2nd-gen scap pattern isn't unusual for
Herring for the date- at least for west coast smith many of which
don't molt juv scaps till January or later. Also, while the barred
pattern to the juv greater coverts may not be out of range, those
feathers seem to consistently fade/wear very rapidly on S-b, and
typically seem to have little defined patterning left by April.
Also, at least in Matt's flight shots the primary pattern seems more like
a faded or slightly dark pigment-challenged Herring than S-b. The inner
webs of the outer primaries seem pretty dusky and low contrast for S-b,
and the inner primary window is disturbingly defined and high-contrast
(quite smith-like).
Interesting bird, but IMO doesn't appear to safely fit into typical
S-b patterns of appearance. The greater covert and scap patterns
at least do suggest something Vega-ish.
Cheers,
Phil Pickering
Lincoln City, Oregon
philliplc(AT)harborside.com
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Subject: Re: possible Slaty-backed Gull
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 11 Feb 2005 10:11am
Based on my experience of birds in Japan, I don't agree at all that SB
gulls moult juv scaps in CY1. I have photographs of birds in full juv
plumage in late Jan.
I would also make the observation that juv scaps of many large gulls
seem to fade much, much less quickly that the '1st basic' scaps. This is
certainly true for west coast smiths and Thayer's. I suspect SB Gull is
just an extreme example of fading 1st basic scaps.
Having said all that, I'm not sure why this particular bird isn't a
smith.
Nick Lethaby
DSP/BIOS Product Manager
Software Development Systems
Texas Instruments
805 562 5106
nlethaby(AT)ti.com
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Phillip Pickering
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 8:59 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] possible Slaty-backed Gull
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/mja43/CorpusLarus/
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mlretter/album?.dir=5d9a&.src=ph&store=&pr
odid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos
Structurally it does suggest S-b, but the stark, high-contrast
2nd-gen scap pattern seems atypical, if not out of range for the
late spring date. S-b seem to consistently molt juvenile scaps
fairly early, usually if not always in 1CY, and 2nd-gen are
typically extremely worn/faded and lacking much in the way of
stark defined patterning (if they had any to start with), after Feb.
On the other hand the 2nd-gen scap pattern isn't unusual for
Herring for the date- at least for west coast smith many of which
don't molt juv scaps till January or later. Also, while the barred
pattern to the juv greater coverts may not be out of range, those
feathers seem to consistently fade/wear very rapidly on S-b, and
typically seem to have little defined patterning left by April.
Also, at least in Matt's flight shots the primary pattern seems more
like
a faded or slightly dark pigment-challenged Herring than S-b. The inner
webs of the outer primaries seem pretty dusky and low contrast for S-b,
and the inner primary window is disturbingly defined and high-contrast
(quite smith-like).
Interesting bird, but IMO doesn't appear to safely fit into typical
S-b patterns of appearance. The greater covert and scap patterns
at least do suggest something Vega-ish.
Cheers,
Phil Pickering
Lincoln City, Oregon
philliplc(AT)harborside.com
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Subject: WIWR variation
From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
Date: 11 Feb 2005 10:24am
Many thanks to those who responded to the Winter Wren pics.
I have added 2 more to the page here:
http://www.acnatsci.org/~wechsler/lightbox/ID-Front/WIWR.html
Several people mentioned that some of the differences may
be explained by exposure/light/camera settings and I agree.
The 2 additional pics from Bill Elrick were both taken in somewhat
more controlled setting and still appear redder than expected.
I looked at specimens here at the academy and though the age
of the specimens here seems to be masking some differences I think
there may be some slight di-chromatism going on within both eastern
and western populations. I did not look at series from elsewhere
on the globe. I would definitely need to look closer and longer
at specimens to draw any conclusions but the variation between
redder and browner birds was apparent. Like other red-brown birds,
especially Thrushes the perceived tone of the upperparts is very effected
by light such that, in my experience, birds almost seem to change color as
they move from shadow to sunlight. Such subtle tonal differences are obviously
hard to represent in photos.
The reference below is well worth a look, and would seem to portend
more headaches and/or armchair ticks though after this little exercise
I would hesitate to base subspecific or impending specific IDs on upperpart
colors.
Best to all
Matt
Drovetski, S.V., Zink, R.M., Rohwer, S., Fadeev, I.V., Nesterov,
E.V., Karagodin I. Yu., Koblik, E.A. and Red'kin, Ya.A., 2004.
Complex biogeographic history of a holarctic passerine. Proceedings
of the Royal Society of London, Series B 21 (1538): 545-551.
which you can find at
http://hosting.uaa.alaska.edu/afsvd/
under publications.
(Thanks to Declan Troy for this)
Matt Sharp
Collection Manager
VIREO/ANS
1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
Philadelphia PA 19103
www.acnatsci.org/vireo
(tel.) 215-299-1069
(fax) 215-299-1182
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Subject: Re: possible Slaty-backed Gull
From: Phillip Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 11 Feb 2005 10:30am
>Based on my experience of birds in Japan, I don't agree at all that SB
>gulls moult juv scaps in CY1. I have photographs of birds in full juv
>plumage in late Jan.
It's good to know that S-b can have juv scaps in January. However
the large available photo sample including virtually every relevant
shot on the Japanese website suggests that progressed scap molt
in 1CY is much more typical.
Cheers,
Phil
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