ID-FRONTIERS for March 1-5, 2005

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   Maxima Canada Geese   SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM   Tue, 1 Mar 2005   9:14pm   Pale Pine Siskin at Scottsbluff, Nebraska   Ross Silcock    Tue, 1 Mar 2005   9:03pm   Santa Ana Nighthawk   Richard Hoyer    Tue, 1 Mar 2005   9:57am   Re: Glaucous-winged Gull in Newfoundland   MIECHEL TABAK    Wed, 2 Mar 2005   2:51pm   Re: Glaucous-winged Gull in Newfoundland   Phillip Pickering    Wed, 2 Mar 2005   6:29pm   Re: Glaucous-winged Gull in Newfoundland   Phillip Pickering    Wed, 2 Mar 2005   7:04pm   Re: subadult gull from Oregon   MIECHEL TABAK    Wed, 2 Mar 2005   8:29pm   Glaucous-winged Gull in Newfoundland   Ian Mclaren    Thu, 3 Mar 2005   12:24pm   Re: Glaucous-winged Gull in Newfoundland   Michael Dossett    Thu, 3 Mar 2005   12:43pm   Re: Glaucous-winged Gull in Newfoundland   Phillip Pickering    Thu, 3 Mar 2005   1:25pm   Call for papers (well, articles): Birding   Ted Floyd    Thu, 3 Mar 2005   6:16pm   more on Newfoundland GWGU   Bruce Mactavish    Thu, 3 Mar 2005   6:51pm   Re: more on Newfoundland GWGU   Phillip Pickering    Thu, 3 Mar 2005   9:15pm   CFO quiz   GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM   Fri, 4 Mar 2005   12:13am   Cackling Goose, NOT new to Ontario   Jean Iron    Sat, 5 Mar 2005   8:57am   Re: Cackling Goose, NOT new to Ontario   SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM   Sat, 5 Mar 2005   9:34am

To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'. This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.

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Subject: Maxima Canada Geese
From: SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 1 Mar 2005 9:14pm

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Greetings All

I received info from Bob Jones via Liis Veelma.

Bob Jones was involved in the maxima reintroduction project...when a
remnant population of that subspecies, which was thought to be extinct, was
discovered.  The 'Delta' he refers to is Delta Marsh at the southern end of
Lake Manitoba, a Ramsar site.  Liis sent my message to him for comment. His
reply to the initial inquiry and a follow up query are below.

The markings on the geese are correct for maxima (white chin and pink
underside to lower mandible).  And since these birds have been sent all over
(even
Delta shipped some to the west coast, according to my memory), there has been a
mixing of genetic material from all over.

Also the expansion of the population from the normal flight lines here in
the mid-west could push the birds that far west.  So in all likelyhood they
have some Giant Canada Geese in that area (Washington state).

There is considerable variation in the Maxima we see here in Manitoba.  As
you know they were thought to be extinct in 1920's and have increased
tremendously since rediscovered by Hanson in 1960.  Now they will be about
half of the large flocks in Winnipeg (120,000) and Portage la Prairie
(10-20,000).  The birds here in Portage have been intermingled with birds
from Regina (interiorii and moffitti) through large introductions by the
Delta people in the 1960's and 70's.  So we get extremely large geese that
show neither of the traits that you have described.  A rule of thumb would
be if you have these pattern (White on chin and pink lower side of bill) you
have a Giant.  But you may have Giants that do not exhibit these patterns.
I remember observing a mixed wintering flock in Nebraska that had about 20%
of these color patterns.  It also had an admixture of smaller varieties,
that were definitely not the Giants.

Bob Jones

So, it seems that we've had some maxima occur here over time in Washington,
at times in groups up to 6 --- pretty interesting.

Cheers
Steven Mlodinow

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Subject: Pale Pine Siskin at Scottsbluff, Nebraska
From: Ross Silcock <silcock(AT)rosssilcock.com>
Date: 1 Mar 2005 9:03pm

Hi all:
Could this bird http://www.rosssilcock.com/palesiskin1.bmp and
http://www.rosssilcock.com/palesiskin2.bmp be described as leucistic, or is
it merely a pale variant?  Is this a fairly frequent phenomenon?
Thanks to Kathy DeLara for the photos.

Ross Silcock
P.O. Box 57
Tabor, Iowa, USA  51653
silcock(AT)rosssilcock.com
New Zealand Land and Pelagic Bird Tours
Birders' Checklist of the Pacific
www.rosssilcock.com


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Subject: Santa Ana Nighthawk
From: Richard Hoyer <calliope(AT)THERIVER.COM>
Date: 1 Mar 2005 9:57am

Dear Texbirds and ID Frontiers,

Many thanks to all the people who took time to ponder and comment on
the Chordeiles nighthawk photo I posted at
http://personal.riverusers.com/~calliope/santaananighthaw.html. Finally
considering opinions from Will Russell, Jon Dunn, David Sibley, and
Michael O'Brien, this is a LESSER NIGHTHAWK, Chordeiles acutipennis.
The most overwhelming ID feature is the placement of the white wingbar
near the terminal end of the tertials (which appear to be complete).
The other features that seem to argue for Common Nighthawk (blackish on
the scapulars, relative lack of buffy spots in the outer primaries) are
variable enough features in Lesser Nighthawk that these are not so
useful. And interpretations of the shape of the primary tips, color of
the flanks and breast, and thickness of the barring and breast band are
all simply too hard to judge from photos that offer limited angles,
lighting, and postures of the bird.

Finally, photos forwarded to me from Pat DeWenter from a nighthawk on
the same branches a year earlier, also show a Lesser Nighthawk. But as
it turns out, Lesser Nighthawk is a regular enough bird in the winter
in the Lower Rio Grande Valley that it's possible that these are
different birds. In fact with some observations of multiple birds
foraging on warmer winter evenings, it's even possible that from
day-to-day there could be a different bird on this perch.

One last note on the status of Common Nighthawk, C. minor. Though this
bird is occasionally reported from the winter in south Texas, and late
migrants do seem in some years to linger into early December, there may
actually be no documented winter records from North America. If anyone
has photos of winter nighthawks in Texas that they believed to be
Commons, I would be happy to host them on my website for general
review.

Good Birding,

Rich
---
Rich Hoyer
Tucson, AZ

Senior Field Leader, WINGS, Inc.
http://www.wingsbirds.com
---


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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged Gull in Newfoundland
From: MIECHEL TABAK <mtabak(AT)SHAW.CA>
Date: 2 Mar 2005 2:51pm

Since there hasn't been much discussion about this gull,  I'll comment. This
gull looks like one of the best out of range candidates I've seen for a
Glaucous-winged Gull. This bird would not get a second glance here in
Vancouver B.C. The mottled head and breast markings of basic plumage look
good for GWGU. The colouring of the primary tips, only slightly darker than
the mantle colour also looks good for GWGU. The string of pearls
sub-terminal to the primary tips is another good GWGU feature. Here in
Vancouver B.C. I see thousands of apparent GWGU x WEGU, and GWGU x HEGU.
Looking at GWGU x HEGU, I see GWGU's with pale mantles and obvious darkening
of the primaries, and eye-colour often intermediate between the yellow of
HEGU, and dark iris of GWGU. These hybrids will often show some head
streaking, more typical of HEGU, so I think the dark iris of the
Newfoundland gull is an  indication of pure parentage. I leave  many back
crosses unidentified.                             The slightly squared head
shape is not unusual among pure looking GWGUs, which I looked for and noted
recently.                                                     What will be
next, GBBG in Vancouver?
Mike Tabak


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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged Gull in Newfoundland
From: Phillip Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 2 Mar 2005 6:29pm

> The slightly squared head
> shape is not unusual among pure looking GWGUs,

Respectfully, as one who also sees G-w every day I have to strongly
disagree with this. I've also looked at hundreds as recently as this
morning, and all I have to do is glance at these shots to know something
isn't "safe" here. G-w like everything else are somewhat variable, but
they still have a consistent look - and to my eye this gull's head shape
and eye placement as evident in all the photos create a look that is
so far off that I think the odds of an extralimital pure G-w looking
like this might as well be zero. The bill shape could also go either
way - there is some gonydeal angle but otherwise the bill is
proportionately kind of long, thin and blunt, certainly not a classic
thick G-w bill that would strongly support the ID. I'm also still
looking for a G-w of any age with a bill color pattern quite like this.

>The string of pearls
>sub-terminal to the primary tips is another good GWGU feature

Yes but the small rounded mirror on P10 does not appear to be,
at least for a G-w with such large white tongues as this gull has.

>so I think the dark iris of the
>Newfoundland gull is an  indication of pure parentage

Iris color in (assumed) Herring x G-w is variable, with many having
a fully dark iris.

I agree that the hood markings are very G-w-like, which is the main
reason I suspect it's an intergrade Herring xG-w rather than something
else odd with G-w-like features. As I said I don't think anything can be
100% safely assumed in a case like this though. If it were my call I'd
just study this bird and file the info away for future use. I don't think
the
state of our knowledge is sufficient at this point to pin a name on it.

Cheers,

Phil


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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged Gull in Newfoundland
From: Phillip Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 2 Mar 2005 7:04pm

Here's a subadult gull from the central Oregon coast this morning
that might help illustrate how careful you have to be with extralimital
G-w candidates. The primaries look just like a G-w, but the jizz
and bill shape and pattern seem very Herring-like, and the iris is clear
and pale. I can't say what this is, although an odd G-w with a pale iris
seems less likely than a hybrid (Glaucous x G-w?, Herring x G-w?)
or even an odd pure Herring lacking black pigment - I assume they
have adult gray underlying the black. Whatever it is imagine if it had
a dark iris and showed up east of the Rockies..

http://www.harborside.com/~philliplc/gull006.jpg
http://www.harborside.com/~philliplc/gull007.jpg

Cheers,

Phil


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Subject: Re: subadult gull from Oregon
From: MIECHEL TABAK <mtabak(AT)SHAW.CA>
Date: 2 Mar 2005 8:29pm

Hi Phil, I agree this is a hybrid GWGU. I agree it may not be identifiable,
but the bicoloured bill and yellow eye are suggestive of a GLGU x GWGU
cross. The Newfoundland gull looks a lot different than this one.
cheers Mike Tabak


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Subject: Glaucous-winged Gull in Newfoundland
From: Ian Mclaren <iamclar(AT)DAL.CA>
Date: 3 Mar 2005 12:24pm

All:

I hesitate to enter this discussion, except to note that the pale-based
bill of the NF gull, thought by Phil Pickering to be unlike GWGU, seems
well matched in some adults in Mike Sheperd's great collection of photos.
e.g.

        http://www.birdinfo.com/Glaucous-wingedGull_0045.html

        http://www.birdinfo.com/Glaucous-wingedGull_0066.html

        http://www.birdinfo.com/Glaucous-wingedGull_0067.html

Cheers, Ian

Ian A. McLaren
Biology Department
Dalhousie University
Halifax, NS  B3H 4J1


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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged Gull in Newfoundland
From: Michael Dossett <phainopepla(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 3 Mar 2005 12:43pm

The first one of those pictures to me is most
definately a hybrid, probably with Western, though
possibly something else.  The second two photos are
much more in line with what I tend to think of as our
classic Glaucous-winged Gulls.

Michael Dossett
Corvallis, Oregon
phainopepla(AT)yahoo.com

--- Ian Mclaren <iamclar(AT)DAL.CA> wrote:
> All:
>
> I hesitate to enter this discussion, except to note
> that the pale-based
> bill of the NF gull, thought by Phil Pickering to be
> unlike GWGU, seems
> well matched in some adults in Mike Sheperd's great
> collection of photos.
> e.g.
>
>
>
http://www.birdinfo.com/Glaucous-wingedGull_0045.html
>
>
>
http://www.birdinfo.com/Glaucous-wingedGull_0066.html
>
>
>
http://www.birdinfo.com/Glaucous-wingedGull_0067.html
>
> Cheers, Ian
>
> Ian A. McLaren
> Biology Department
> Dalhousie University
> Halifax, NS  B3H 4J1
>

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Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
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Subject: Re: Glaucous-winged Gull in Newfoundland
From: Phillip Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 3 Mar 2005 1:25pm

>http://www.birdinfo.com/Glaucous-wingedGull_0045.html
>http://www.birdinfo.com/Glaucous-wingedGull_0066.html
>http://www.birdinfo.com/Glaucous-wingedGull_0067.html

Thanks for the links.

Yes these are close, and I do see G-w like this all the time -
washed out bill with a bit of brigher color over the gonys.
The Newfoundland gull http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGU002a.jpg
seems a little different to me though. The color on the bill tip seems
brighter and higher contrast, and a bit more extensive and perhaps
better delineated. Not to say that a G-w couldn't look like this, it
just doesn't seem to be common for them. On the other hand it does
seem a common look for gulls that more frequently fade into a Glaucous-
like cleanly black-tipped pattern (ie Herring and Thayer's). That's
why I think it could be the result of an average difference in how
the bill matures between these species and G-w.

Honestly the bill pattern would be the least of my issues with this
gull, though. While looking at bill pattern compare the head shape,
proportional thickness of the bill base, and eye placement of the
Newoundland gull -
http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGU001.jpg
http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGU003.jpg
http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGU002b.jpg
with the above G-w (or hybrids). To me these features combine
on the Newfoundland gull to give a radically different overall
impression - a different more Herring-like jizz that I am not used
to seeing in (otherwise pure-looking) G-w, either live or in any of
the hundreds of web photos available.

Cheers,

Phil


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Subject: Call for papers (well, articles): Birding
From: Ted Floyd <tedfloyd(AT)ABA.ORG>
Date: 3 Mar 2005 6:16pm

Hello, birders.

I am writing to encourage you, the contributors to Frontiers of Bird ID,
to think about submitting a feature article to Birding, the magazine of
the American Birding Association. I consider it to be self-evident that
a lot of important ideas are generated here on Frontiers, and I think it
would be super for some of these ideas to reach Birding's broad audience
of ~20,000 readers.

Guidelines for Contributors are published in each issue of Birding. In
the current (March/April 2005) issue, the Guidelines appear on p. 124.

The following three broad areas of coverage are appropriate for feature
articles in Birding:

  * Bird Identification. Primary emphases: molt and related phenomena;
subspecies, females, and juveniles; under-appreciated identification
problems in common and widespread taxa. Identification problems with no
relevance to the ABA Area are generally inappropriate. Conversely,
identification of "unofficial" taxa (e.g., exotics) in the ABA Area is
an increasing focus of Birding.

  * Bird Biology. Primary emphases: systematics and taxonomy;
speciation; behavior; ecology. Articles on bird biology should address
phenomena that can be observed in the field by ordinary birders. There
is a special premium on topics that can be *contributed to* by ordinary
birders.

  * Bird Conservation. Primary emphases: inventory and monitoring;
implementation; citizen-science. The basic approach should be
science-based, not politics-based. In other words: What can birders do?
Not: How should birders think? Highly appropriate are articles on
conservation and management of subspecies and exotics. 

Submissions are currently being solicited for the following:

  * September/October 2005 -- SPARROW IDENTIFICATION

  * November/December 2005 -- BIRDING IN ALASKA

  * January/February 2006 -- GRASSLAND BIRDS

  * March/April 2006 -- SPLITS AND LUMPS

  * May/June 2006 -- BIRDS ON ISLANDS

  * July/August 2006 -- SOFT FIELD MARKS

(Content for the forthcoming May/June 2005 and July/August 2005 issues
has already been determined.)

If you would like to contribute an article that explores one of the
major themes identified above, please e-mail me a 200-word proposal as
soon as possible.

A few points of an editorial nature:

  * Contributors to Birding should be good thinkers AND good writers.
Good thinking in the hands of a bad writer is, at best, a terrible
waste. More realistically, it is probably impossible for a bad writer to
have good thoughts.

  * Assume that the readership is bright but naive. Terms such as
'rectrix' and 'remex' need to be defined (and spelled right, please!),
just once, up front, clearly and succinctly so. 

  * We are deadly serious about deadlines and word limits.

  * Read the Guidelines for Contributors.

  * Think before you write!

Am very much hoping that a few of you will take me up on my offer. As I
said at the outset, there are some really good ideas coming out of
Frontiers of Bird ID, and I would be very pleased for the Birding
readership to hear from you.

All best,
Ted

----------------------------

Ted Floyd

Editor,
Birding

American Birding Association
P.O. Box 7974
Boulder, Colorado 80306-7974

303-444-6363
tedfloyd(AT)aba.org

Please visit the website of the
American Birding Association:
http://www.americanbirding.org


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Subject: more on Newfoundland GWGU
From: Bruce Mactavish <bruce.mactavish1(AT)NF.SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 3 Mar 2005 6:51pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I thank everyone for there comments on this gull up to this point.
Computer problems prevented earlier response to comments.

Phil Pickering has the most problem with this bird being a pure
Glaucous-winged Gull.  If it isn't pure, it must be as close as you can
get without being so.  I wonder if in the original posting I hadn't
posted http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGU002b.jpg and
http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGU003.jpg would the bill size and head
shape have been less of an issue.  For some reason in those two photos,
taken seconds apart, the head does look extra thin and small compared to
the way it was.  See http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGUone.jpg.  Just a
little turn of the head toward the camera shortens the apparent length
of the bill and thickens up the look of the head.  The gonydeal angle
looks sharper and more pronounced.

In the last few days I've looked at the bills of local Herring Gulls.
Birds that were four or five years old. Birds that looked like adults or
near adults by plumage but had too much black on the bill, usually
enough to form a broken or complete ring.  I examined 50 such birds.
There were two common colour schemes. 1) Pale yellow base, black ring,
yellow tip and 2) pale yellow base, black ring and whitish tip.  I saw
one bird that was close to the colour combination of 'The Bird in
Question' with a pale whitish base dark broken ring and yellow tip.  I
know winter adult Herring Gulls often show washed out yellow/whitish
based bills with brighter yellow gonydeal area and tip.

One of the most interesting features of 'The Bird in Question' is the
position of the red mark. It is closer to the tip than the black mark.
On all 50 four or five year old Herrings and all 200+ adults that still
contained winter black in the gonys, the red spot was always inside the
black spot, i.e. red spot closer to base of bill black spot closest to
tip. That makes this bill especially unique. Didn't find any examples of
Glaucous-winged Gulls on the Internet that showed this either. Don't
know what this means.

There is a remnant black line of immaturity running in a thin line
horizontally above the cutting edge and the lead of black dusting on the
underside of the bill going back from the gony. When looking at all the
photos of Glaucous-winged Gull on the Japan web site
http://larus.hp.infoseek.co.jp/gullidentifi_.htm and Michel Shepherd's
Victoria, BC gull web site http://www.birdinfo.com/Gull.html I noticed a
tendency for the second and third winter birds to show long dark lines,
especially along the cutting edge of the bill, as the dark retreats
during the change over to adult bill. A moot point perhaps.

Another possibly as moot point is the hook on the bill
http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGUtwo.jpg.  Again while looking at the
Japanese and Victoria websites I noticed a high frequency of
Glaucous-winged Gull having an overgrown bill tip. This is not so common
on Herring Gulls, in the east at least.

Wingtip pattern.  The amount of dark in outer three primaries is
exaggerated in http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGU004.jpg.  The movement
of the wing has somehow exaggerated the width and darkness. This new
photo although still out of focus is a better representation of the
ratio of dark on leading edge and trailing edge of P6-P10
http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGUthree.jpg. The extend of darker gray on
P6-P9 seems very good for Glaucous-winged Gull. This photo shows the
upper side of the left wing http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGUfour.jpg.
P10 and P9 are hidden. P8 appears to be on top.

The mirror on P10 is small. Through a telescope while at rest the white
mirror could be seen to break out to the leading edge of the feather.
Photos and in the field examinations showed that the mirror did was
contained within the trailing web and did not quite break out to the
edge.  This little P10 mirror may be small for a Glaucous-winged Gull
and but is more unusual for a Herring Gull. In Klaus Malling Olsen's
Gull Book page 156 in description of adult Glaucous-winged Gull: "P10
with 40-50mm white mirror, often reduced to weak spot on inner web, some
with gray cast to whole outer web.  Birds with uniform P10 probably
younger adults." According to KMO the P10 of this bird fits in with
adult Glaucous-winged Gull, perhaps a younger bird. The dark on bill is
a strong indication of young adult.

This gull has a lot going for it being a pure Glaucous-winged Gull. The
wing tip pattern is the right colour and shape. The eye is the right
colour, very blackish.  Orbital ring colour is right, deep red-pink. The
overall shape and size I think is Ok if looked at from many angles.
Other subtle things this bird had but not mentioned include shortish
wing tip projection and slightly wider white tertial crescent.

It can't get much better than this.

Bruce Mactavish
St. John's, Newfoundland
Canada
bruce.mactavish1(AT)nf.sympatico.ca

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Subject: Re: more on Newfoundland GWGU
From: Phillip Pickering <philliplc(AT)HARBORSIDE.COM>
Date: 3 Mar 2005 9:15pm

This is a very interesting gull and I appreciate the opportunity
to study it - sorry if I sound argumentative about it - hopefully
everyone (including me) is learning from the discourse.

> If it isn't pure, it must be as close as you can
> get without being so.

If anything at all is off for G-w I don't think that can be safely assumed.
That was the point I was trying to make with the odd gull I posted
yesterday. The state of our knowledge about what is going on
genetically with odd/intergrade gulls and how it can affect their
appearance isn't sufficient to assume anything. In my opinion that
sentiment should be amplified for a extralimital candidate 2000+ miles
out of normal range with very little precedent. Specifically I don't
think it can be assumed (as is standard procedure) that Herring
intergrades necessarily will have obviously darker primaries
than a standard pure G-w. Same with iris color necessarily
being intermediate - that is clearly not the case with west
coast intergrades.

>I wonder if in the original posting I hadn't
> posted http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGU002b.jpg and
> http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGU003.jpg would the bill size and head
> shape have been less of an issue.  For some reason in those two photos,
> taken seconds apart, the head does look extra thin and small compared to
> the way it was.  See http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGUone.jpg.  Just a
> little turn of the head toward the camera shortens the apparent length
> of the bill and thickens up the look of the head.  The gonydeal angle
> looks sharper and more pronounced.

To clarify I have been (or have at least been trying to) compensate
for angle of view when assessing structure. The apparent jizz in the
new shot looks just as unsafe as in any of the others to me. It's
not the size of the head, it's the apparent flatness of the crown and
forehead combined with the (apparent) squared, high-angled hind-
crown. It's possible the latter could be partly posture-based, but the
former
does not appear to be as it is apparent in most of the photos, and looks
particularly extreme where the crown feathering is seemingly completely
flattened in the frontal view http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGU004.jpg

> One of the most interesting features of 'The Bird in Question' is the
> position of the red mark. It is closer to the tip than the black mark.
> On all 50 four or five year old Herrings and all 200+ adults that still
> contained winter black in the gonys, the red spot was always inside the
> black spot, i.e. red spot closer to base of bill black spot closest to
> tip. That makes this bill especially unique. Didn't find any examples of
> Glaucous-winged Gulls on the Internet that showed this either. Don't
> know what this means.

Don't know either, but it's yet another thing that could potentially be
attributed to mixed genetics - mixing or overlapping of patterns
combined with abnormally shifting structure. I haven't looked nearly
enough at this to say anything with confidence, but I did notice that the
darkish-eyed 4-5th winter Herring x G-w candidate I had posted
earlier this winter that most thought was more likely a pure Herring
showed both a pale whitish bill base with extensive very bright
yellow on the tip, and red distal to the black. It also has a slight
tip hook which you mention as being unusual for eastern Herring.
See close up:
http://www.harborside.com/~philliplc/gull008.jpg

> Wingtip pattern.  The amount of dark in outer three primaries is
> exaggerated in http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGU004.jpg.  The movement
> of the wing has somehow exaggerated the width and darkness. This new
> photo although still out of focus is a better representation of the
> ratio of dark on leading edge and trailing edge of P6-P10
> http://stubird.dreamhost.com/GWGUthree.jpg. The extend of darker gray on
> P6-P9 seems very good for Glaucous-winged Gull.

Agreed. I withdraw the objection :)

> The mirror on P10 is small. Through a telescope while at rest the white
> mirror could be seen to break out to the leading edge of the feather.
> Photos and in the field examinations showed that the mirror did was
> contained within the trailing web and did not quite break out to the
> edge.  This little P10 mirror may be small for a Glaucous-winged Gull
> and but is more unusual for a Herring Gull. In Klaus Malling Olsen's
> Gull Book page 156 in description of adult Glaucous-winged Gull: "P10
> with 40-50mm white mirror, often reduced to weak spot on inner web, some
> with gray cast to whole outer web.  Birds with uniform P10 probably
> younger adults." According to KMO the P10 of this bird fits in with
> adult Glaucous-winged Gull, perhaps a younger bird. The dark on bill is
> a strong indication of young adult.

West coast Herring at least can show small P10 mirrors similar to the
Newfoundland gull. I guess Glaucous-winged can also, but as far
as I've been able to assess so far, those that do tend not to show such
obvious white tongues on the other primaries - the size of the P10
mirror and extent of the tongues appears to likely be related
in individual G-w.

Cheers,

Phil


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Subject: CFO quiz
From: GreatGrayOwl(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 4 Mar 2005 12:13am

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Hi all:

Apparently, the Colorado Field Ornithologists' website quiz is difficult
this week -- we've only gotten 14 responses after nearly 60 on last week's
quiz.
 If you care to take a stab at it, visit www.cfo-link.org.

Enjoy,

Tony Leukering
Brighton, CO

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Subject: Cackling Goose, NOT new to Ontario
From: Jean Iron <jeaniron(AT)SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 5 Mar 2005 8:57am

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An article titled "Cackling Goose, NOT new to Ontario" by Ken Abraham is on
the website of the Ontario Field Ornithologists. Ken is a research
scientist specializing in geese with the Ontario Ministry of Natural
Resources. The article is the best information about Cackling Geese (Branta
hutchinsii) in the province. It discusses the status and distribution
including two range maps showing band recovery locations, identification,
and outlines the problem of Branta canadensis parvipes. There are three
photos of Cackling Geese including two from the breeding grounds on
Southampton Island and Baffin Island in Nunavut. The article was first
published in the February 2005 issue of OFO News 23(1):2-6. To view and
print the article http://www.ofo.ca/cackling/

Jean Iron and Ron Pittaway
OFO News Editors
Ontario Field Ornithologists
Toronto and Minden ON

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Subject: Re: Cackling Goose, NOT new to Ontario
From: SGMlod(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 5 Mar 2005 9:34am

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Greetings All

Great article, and many thanks to alerting us to it, especially as we can
print it out at home. My reading material for tonight.

I did scan it quickly and have one comment.

I would NOT consider minima an unlikely vagrant to Ontario. Perhaps casual,
yes, but unlikely over time, no.

They are rare to uncommon in eastern Washington, showing some prediliction to
migrate at least somewhat eastwards and they start from very far north. Given
that v-nigra Common Eiders (clearly a bird less expected to wander inland)
have shown up in the central interior US, and coastally, as far Newfoundland
and
Greenland -- I think minima could easily appear in ON as a wild bird.

Notably, we in WA just had a b.h. hutchinsi show up that had been banded 10
years ago as an adult in NC!!! Kind of the reverse of minima appearing in
Ontario. Two other birds that appear perfect for nominate Cacklers were also
seen
and photographed.

Anyway, enough about that. Great article and thanks for sharing.

Cheers
Steven Mlodinow

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