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ID-FRONTIERS for March 27-31, 2005
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Subject: Painted Bunting in Ontario
From: Alan Wormington <wormington(AT)JUNO.COM>
Date: 27 Mar 2005 5:57pm
Everyone,
I would appreciate any comments on a Painted Bunting that was present in
southern Ontario on August 5-9, 2004.
Here are the direct links to two photos, both of which can be enlarged by
clicking the icon at the bottom right of each photo:
Ron Ridout photo:
http://www.ofo.ca/photos/paintedbuntingrr.jpg
Brandon Holden photo:
http://www.ofo.ca/photos/pabubh.jpg
The purpose of my post is as follows:
AGE OF BIRD:
What is the age of this bird (and how to categorize it re plumage
terminology)? To be clear, in what year was it born (in relation to the
August 2004 observation)?
BILL OF BIRD:
It was pointed out to me by Alvaro Jaramillo that the bill looks
unusually long (= possible overbite?). Neither of us know what this
might mean, so any discussion on this would be appreciated.
Alan Wormington
Leamington, Ontario
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Subject: orange rumped Say's Phoebe
From: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker(AT)ZIPCON.NET>
Date: 28 Mar 2005 2:57pm
HI:
Yesterday here on Bainbridge Island,WA, I observed a Say's Phoebe that
was pretty dull in color, BUT I did notice it had an orange rump. The only
guide book that shows the rump is the Sibley guide(s) and that book(s)
shows the rump the same color as the back. Has anyone seen an orange
rumped Say's Phoebe before?
--
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way!"
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Subject: Re: orange rumped Say's Phoebe
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 28 Mar 2005 3:08pm
I see Say's Phoebe's all the time and I am almost certain I've never
seen one with an orange rump. Are you sure the vent feathers weren't
wrapped around the rump or something like that?
Nick Lethaby
DSP/BIOS Product Manager
Software Development Systems
Texas Instruments
805 562 5106
nlethaby(AT)ti.com
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian Paulsen
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 2:01 PM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] orange rumped Say's Phoebe
HI:
Yesterday here on Bainbridge Island,WA, I observed a Say's Phoebe that
was pretty dull in color, BUT I did notice it had an orange rump. The
only
guide book that shows the rump is the Sibley guide(s) and that book(s)
shows the rump the same color as the back. Has anyone seen an orange
rumped Say's Phoebe before?
--
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way!"
Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
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Subject: Bewick's Swan or Tundra Swan?
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 30 Mar 2005 3:28pm
Dear all, as you may remember Mark Stackhouse asked our opinion about a swan
seen
in Utah, the observer of which called a Bewick's Swan. So far there seems to
be concensus that this bird is in fact a Tundra Swan.
The photo can be seen here:
http://utahbirds.org/hotlinephotos/BewicksSwan.htm
A while ago John Idzikowski made available to you pictures of a swan I took
in The Netherlands with a restricted amount of yellow on the bill which can
be seen here:
http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/tswan.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/tswan2.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/tswan3.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/tswan4.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/tswan5.jpg
http://my.execpc.com/CE/5F/idzikoj/misc/tswan6.jpg
We cannot detect a difference between the Dutch swan and the Utah swan.
Therefore if the Utah bird is a columbianus logic has it that the Dutch bird
is a columbianus as well and vice versa if either is considered a bewickii
the other must be one too!
According to the article in The Auk there is no overlap between Eurasian
bewickii and American columbianus as far as the amount of
yellow on the bill is concerned. In fact there seems to be a difference in
the amount of yellow of some 5 to 6%.
So Mark and I ask you for your judgment on these two swans of ours.
Norman
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Subject: Re: Bewick's Swan or Tundra Swan?
From: sgmlod(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 30 Mar 2005 5:55pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Greetings All
We see Whistling Swans with this amount of yellow fairly often in Washington
State. Hard to tell exactly what percentage of birds, but at least 1%. Cameron
Cox recently ran into a number of the "max yellow" Whistlings, and it is
possible that the yellow increases in spring. Or not. In any case, I'd call this
bird a Whistling (or else, we get a lot of Bewick's).
Cheers
Steven Mlodinow
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Subject: more gulls suggesting Vega from Texas
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 30 Mar 2005 6:28pm
Dear all,
I've added pics of three more first-winter gulls that suggest Vega, and I'd
appreciate comments on them:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp82.html
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp84.html
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp85.html - this latter one is perhaps less
distinctive. except for the replaced R1 and utc that seem wrong for
smithsonianus; I'd really appreciate some comments on the replaced R1
pattern evident in this bird - thanks.
Also i've added a few more pics of the Kelp-like first-winter:
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp83.html
http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp83b.html
Thus far I've only gotten feedback from one person with extensive
experience of Kelp from various populations, and he feels this might be a
pure Kelp - but that proving it may be impossible. I'd really value more
opinions from those experienced in Kelp (gulls, that is...)
Cheers,
Martin
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
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Subject: Re: more gulls suggesting Vega from Texas
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao(AT)COASTSIDE.NET>
Date: 30 Mar 2005 11:10pm
Martin and gull fans.
Your vega gulls look good, but the first two seem to have largely dark
tails. I realize that many vegas lack the tail band, but being conservative
with these things, I would leave these as unidentified as the tail is a
classic field mark and a prime separator from smithsonianus. I have photos
of birds that resemble yours from California, with dark tails, they may be
extremely well marked smithsonianus... or perhaps vega is even more common
than suspected. There are many confusing issues here, one of them being that
barring on tail, checkering on coverts, and narrow and well spaced bars on
scapulars seem to be correlated. In other words, do we consider these as
separate features, or are they all one “mega feature.” The smithsonianus
with the most barred coverts, tend to be the ones with the more vega like
scapulars, while the least barred tend to have the least amount of white on
tertials and upperparts. To some extent the tail pattern is not as closely
correlated to the covert/tertial/scapular pattern, I think. It makes for a
very confusing situation out here in the west, where vega is a much greater
possibility than in the rest of the continent. The other confusing issue is
that as more and more vega candidates show up in Texas, well the more likely
that another explanation is warranted. At some point it just doesn’t make
sense that so many vega candidates are showing up in the center of the
continent. But then, it makes no sense that all of a sudden a bunch of
Slaty-backed Gulls are showing up in Half Moon Bay, California. We may be at
the cusp of a different level of understanding, and only a few more years of
observation will give us support for the theories that fly around. Either
Vega is a lot more common than we believe, or these are not vega...how we
resolve this will be interesting. One way will be to look for variation in
smithsonianus and see if we can link up birds with the vega-like phenotypes
to typical smithsonianus by series of intermediate birds or not? Finally,
how does one separate these vega like birds from European Herring Gulls? I
mean in the center of the continent, isn’t Euro Herring as likely, or more
so, than Vega?
Now your Kelp Gull candidate I have more issues with. I have no idea
what this is, but it sure does look odd for a Kelp Gull. For one, the
structure with that long and blob-ended bill, small head with real shallow
forehead, and those thick legs...well it just looks wrong. In some ways your
bird suggests the structure of a Yellow-footed Gull to me, although it is
clearly not one of those either. What I am comparing to are typical South
American Kelp Gulls, not the shorter billed and rounder headed
Antarctic/subantarctic birds and I don’t know the African birds at all. Some
photos I have seen of those suggest the structure of your bird, with longer
legs, and weird swan-necked structure. Perhaps the larger issue is that the
plumage doesn’t add up. Kelp Gulls as juveniles are quite brown, but they
quickly become really white on the head, neck and breast. Thus, what is a
brownish juvenile in February-March (August-September in northern
equivalent), becomes really white headed by October-November (April-May). So
a northern March bird should likely look a lot more white on the head, neck
and breast than your bird does on either schedule. The typical for an
October-November bird in Chile is to look pretty white, except for a
noticeable dark post-ocular streak, and good spotting on the lower neck and
breast sides. I am not clear if the white of the head and neck is due to
wear and fading or a brand new set of feathers, but the difference between a
juvenile or bird in early winter and a spring bird is sizeable. I guess if I
had to choose, I would say it is due to moult, as in general I find that
Kelp Gulls are “advanced” in their moult state compared to something typical
we are used to, like smithsonianus. Many first cycle birds in
October-November (spring) in Chile show a lot of blackish feathers on the
mantle already, and having some entirely dark and unpatterned feathers is
typical. Moult of P1 starts in first cycle birds in late October. So
accounting for a northern hemisphere moult cycle your bird looks too “young”
for March. I would expect a Kelp Gull to show a whiter head, neck and
breast, as well as darker and more uniform upperparts. The fact that the
mantle is so pale and well patterned on your bird is troubling to me.
Another odd feature is how worn and faded the coverts are on this bird. This
is not something I have noticed on Kelp Gulls ever, even those that are in
places with extreme amounts of sunlight like northern Chile. Perhaps this is
an argument for an odd moult due to crossing to the northern hemisphere, but
then why such “retarded” looking body and upperparts feathers which are
newer than the wings? The other feature that troubles me is the amount of
dark patterning on the rump and tail coverts. By the first spring, these
areas look pretty nice and white on Kelp, with only minor marking. Even in
the brown juvenile, this part of the body is the whitest, often strikingly
so even when fresh. So that much dark on the rump strikes me as odd for a
Kelp of this age. Perhaps I am over-analyzing it, but you did ask for an
opinion :-). If you can find some good Kelp Gull photos in their first cycle
from September or early October, it would make for a good comparison. Most
of my photos are from October-December for the spring period.
Cheers
Al
Alvaro Jaramillo
chucao(AT)coastside.net
Half Moon Bay, CA
Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
http://www.fieldguides.com/home.htm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
> [mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Martin Reid
> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 5:37 PM
> To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] more gulls suggesting Vega from Texas
>
> Dear all,
> I've added pics of three more first-winter gulls that suggest Vega, and
> I'd
> appreciate comments on them:
> http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp82.html
> http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp84.html
> http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp85.html - this latter one is perhaps less
> distinctive. except for the replaced R1 and utc that seem wrong for
> smithsonianus; I'd really appreciate some comments on the replaced R1
> pattern evident in this bird - thanks.
> Also i've added a few more pics of the Kelp-like first-winter:
> http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp83.html
> http://www.martinreid.com/gullsp83b.html
> Thus far I've only gotten feedback from one person with extensive
> experience of Kelp from various populations, and he feels this might be a
> pure Kelp - but that proving it may be impossible. I'd really value more
> opinions from those experienced in Kelp (gulls, that is...)
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
> Martin Reid
> San Antonio, Texas
> mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
> http://www.martinreid.com
>
>
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-
> bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
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