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ID-FRONTIERS for July 24-31, 2005
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Re: Red-tailed Hawk? | Floyd Hayes | Mon, 25 Jul 2005 | 12:18pm |
| FW: Question about Eastern Towhee identification. | Jeff Gilligan | Mon, 25 Jul 2005 | 12:26pm |
| Re: FW: Question about Eastern Towhee
identification. | Greg D. Jackson | Tue, 26 Jul 2005 | 5:21pm |
| mystery bird at Jamaica Bay | Ernie Lewis | Wed, 27 Jul 2005 | 6:21am |
| Juvenile Franklin's Gull at Point Pelee, Ontario | Alan Wormington | Wed, 27 Jul 2005 | 12:48pm |
| Re: mystery bird at Jamaica Bay | Jason Rogers | Wed, 27 Jul 2005 | 8:22pm |
| Re: mystery bird at Jamaica Bay | Angus Wilson | Thu, 28 Jul 2005 | 6:31am |
| Re: mystery bird at Jamaica Bay | Kevin Karlson | Thu, 28 Jul 2005 | 8:09am |
| Re: mystery bird at Jamaica Bay | Jason Rogers | Thu, 28 Jul 2005 | 10:07am |
| Young flycatcher ID | Rachel Hopper | Thu, 28 Jul 2005 | 1:04pm |
| Young Flycatcher ID/More Pics | Rachel Hopper | Thu, 28 Jul 2005 | 4:07pm |
| Re: mystery bird at Jamaica Bay | Jason Rogers | Fri, 29 Jul 2005 | 12:08am |
| Molting hendersoni Short-billed Dowitcher | Jean Iron | Sat, 30 Jul 2005 | 1:22pm |
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Subject: Re: Red-tailed Hawk?
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 25 Jul 2005 12:18pm
For those still interested in this thread, I've just
posted a new batch of comments on the webpage and
thank those who have responded thus far. Unfortunately
we haven't heard yet from either Bill Clark or Brian
Wheeler. The current tally, which should NOT be viewed
as a consensus that should sway any person's opinion,
is:
Red-tailed Hawk: 11
Swainson's Hawk: 3
Broad-winged Hawk: 1 (also discussed privately by a
few of us)
Nobody has suggested any of the resident South
American raptors and I don't think there are any other
serious contenders.
A few points worthy of mention:
1) The dark patagial mark diagnostic of Red-tailed is
NOT visible in the photo (hidden behind folded
wing)but appears to be described by the observer's
description, assuming it is an accurate description
not based on subsequent examination of a field guide.
2) There are differing views on the relative size of
the bill, which should be larger in Red-tailed. I
wonder if this can be quantified by somebody with
access to specimens.
3) Broad-winged was discussed privately among a few of
us and has now been suggested by a well respected
expert on identification (see last response). However,
another perceptive respondent pointed out that the
gape of the Trinidad hawk extends to the eye, which is
consistent with Swainson's and Red-tailed but not
Broad-winged. Here are a few close-up photos of
Broad-winged Hawk:
http://www.pbase.com/helmutnc/hawk
Floyd Hayes
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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Subject: FW: Question about Eastern Towhee identification.
From: Jeff Gilligan <jeffgill(AT)TELEPORT.COM>
Date: 25 Jul 2005 12:26pm
----------
From: Jeff Gilligan <jeffgill(AT)teleport.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:09:36 -0700
To: <BIRDWGO1(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Question about Eastern Towhee identification.
Does the white spot (patch) at the base of the primaries always show on a
female bird in spring (or at other seasons for that matter)?
Some photos that I have examined barely show the white patch as being
visible on the folded wing.
The reason that I am asking is that a female towheee was photographed in
Oregon that is "splotless", but the photo does not show a white patch at the
base of the primaries. The upper parts are uniformily rich brown.
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Subject: Re: FW: Question about Eastern Towhee
identification.
From: "Greg D. Jackson" <g_d_jackson(AT)bellsouth.net>
Date: 26 Jul 2005 5:21pm
Jeff,
Eastern Towhees can lack the white primary patch. I spent some time
in 1997 at the LSU museum reviewing the Eastern and Spotted towhee
ID issue. One of the features I examined was the primary patch. Of
187 Eastern Towhees, 11 (5.9%) either lacked a primary patch that
would be visible under most field conditions, or had only a minimal
patch.
I have other information on this ID issue from that museum visit,
as well as results of a literature search. Contact me offlist if you're
interested and I'll be glad to email it.
Greg
Greg D. Jackson
Birmingham, AL
g_d_jackson(AT)bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Gilligan" <jeffgill(AT)TELEPORT.COM>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 3:28 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] FW: Question about Eastern Towhee identification.
> ----------
> From: Jeff Gilligan <jeffgill(AT)teleport.com>
> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:09:36 -0700
> To: <BIRDWGO1(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
> Subject: Question about Eastern Towhee identification.
>
> Does the white spot (patch) at the base of the primaries always show on a
> female bird in spring (or at other seasons for that matter)?
>
> Some photos that I have examined barely show the white patch as being
> visible on the folded wing.
>
> The reason that I am asking is that a female towheee was photographed in
> Oregon that is "splotless", but the photo does not show a white patch at
> the
> base of the primaries. The upper parts are uniformily rich brown.
>
>
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
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Subject: mystery bird at Jamaica Bay
From: Ernie Lewis <elewis(AT)BNL.GOV>
Date: 27 Jul 2005 6:21am
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
An unidentified bird was seen July 21 on the south shore of Long Island,
NY. Any help on identification would be appreciated.
http://www.battaly.com/banding/mysterybird.htm
<http://www.battaly.com/banding/mysterybird.htm>
--
Ernie Lewis (elewis(AT)bnl.gov)
Atmospheric Sciences Division
Environmental Sciences Department
Building 815E
Brookhaven National Laboratory
Upton, NY 11973
631-344-7406
631-344-2887 (fax)
The book Sea Salt Aerosol Production: Mechanisms, Methods, Models, and
Measurements, by Ernie R. Lewis and Stephen E. Schwartz, is available on the web
at https://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/agubookstore?book=ASGM1524173
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
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Subject: Juvenile Franklin's Gull at Point Pelee, Ontario
From: Alan Wormington <wormington(AT)JUNO.COM>
Date: 27 Jul 2005 12:48pm
I can't find the message, but a week or two ago someone posted a sighting
of a juvenile Franklin's Gull and asked if it was unusual to see this
plumage any distance away from the breeding grounds (or something to this
effect).
For the record, today (July 27) I saw a juvenile Franklin's Gull sitting
with other gulls in the Onion Fields immediately to the north of Point
Pelee National Park, Ontario. The bird was so brown and scaly that I
momentarily thought it was a juvenile Bonaparte's Gull, of which there
were 8-10 such birds in the same field. Had the bird been any distance
away, it could easily have been passed over as a juvenile Bonaparte's.
Checking my notes, at Point Pelee (and southern Ontario) it appears that
I have previously seen Franklin's Gull in juvenile (not first-winter)
plumage on only one occasion -- September 2-3, 1982.
Alan Wormington
Leamington, Ontario
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Subject: Re: mystery bird at Jamaica Bay
From: Jason Rogers <hawkowl(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 27 Jul 2005 8:22pm
Hi Ernie,
I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that this is a Ruddy Turnstone.
The bird is short-legged and short-billed (the size and shape of the bill
are most apparent in Photo 2, since in this photo, both the culmen and gonys
show faint highlights). Also a suggestion of the Ruddy Turnstone face and
breast pattern can be seen. At least in Photo 2, the bird appears to be in
a rocky area. The marks in the flanks are troublesome. However some Ruddy
Turnstones do show marks in this region.
Regards,
Jason Rogers
Banff, AB
hawkowl(AT)hotmail.com
>From: Ernie Lewis <elewis(AT)BNL.GOV>
>Reply-To: Ernie Lewis <elewis(AT)BNL.GOV>
>To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>Subject: [BIRDWG01] mystery bird at Jamaica Bay
>Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:14:12 -0400
>
>An unidentified bird was seen July 21 on the south shore of Long Island,
>NY. Any help on identification would be appreciated.
>
>http://www.battaly.com/banding/mysterybird.htm
>
>
><http://www.battaly.com/banding/mysterybird.htm>
>
>--
>Ernie Lewis (elewis(AT)bnl.gov)
>Atmospheric Sciences Division
>Environmental Sciences Department
>Building 815E
>Brookhaven National Laboratory
>Upton, NY 11973
>631-344-7406
>631-344-2887 (fax)
>
>The book Sea Salt Aerosol Production: Mechanisms, Methods, Models, and
>Measurements, by Ernie R. Lewis and Stephen E. Schwartz, is available on
>the web at https://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/agubookstore?book=ASGM1524173
>
>
>
>
>
>Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
>http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
>Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
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Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: mystery bird at Jamaica Bay
From: Angus Wilson <gadflypetrel(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 28 Jul 2005 6:31am
Re: http://www.battaly.com/banding/mysterybird.htm
This looks to me like a small and partly leucistic sandpiper. The abnormal
pigmentation is concentrated on the feathers on the head and anterior parts
of its body. Based on structure, I would favor either a Least Sandpiper or
Semipalmated Sandpiper. The shape and length of the bill seems better for
Least Sandpiper. The dark and poorly-defined patterning on the wing coverts
would fit either. Worn adults in summer can look quite dark like this due to
wear of the paler feather edges leaving only the dark centers. The legs
'look' to have a yellowish tinge (especially in the lower pic) but to be
fair, there is a lot of sunglare and in such conditions, dark legs might
look to have some color. The legs look too thin and spindly for a turnstone,
as does the bill. Ruddy Turnstone would also have bright orange legs but
clearly this individual has a pigmentation defect and I suppose it may not
be safe to assume that barepart colors are not affected.
It is a pity there are no notes from the observers. In life there are
usually important clues to the ID that may not appear in a couple of still
photos. Notably, the way the bird moves and careful comparison of size and
shape to other common shorebirds would be of great benefit to the
identification. Was it the same size or bigger than Least Sandpipers? Call
is also a very useful tool for separating small sandpipers.
In deference to the header, the location is NOT Jamaica Bay but Oceanside
Marine Study Area, which is 10+ miles further east.
Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
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Subject: Re: mystery bird at Jamaica Bay
From: Kevin Karlson <karlson3(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 28 Jul 2005 8:09am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Ernie Lewis wrote:Reply: unidentified bird on Long Island's south shore,
July 21, by Kevin Karlson
Ernie et al: The bird is clearly one of the "peeps", by overall shape
and leg length. I believe that it is a worn Least Sandpiper with some
leucistic tendencies, which results in the white head and aberrant look.
By structure alone, since the bill shape is somewhat hard to discern at
this angle, it most resembles Least for the following reasons; 1) the
short, compact body with little attenuation to the rear end combined
with a small head is closest to Least Sandpiper. This small headed look
is also shared by Semipalmated Sandpiper, but they typically show a
heavier body and more attenuated rear end, while Western has a large,
somewhat puffy-headed look combined with a front-end, chest-heavy
structural appearance. 2) The bill, even at this turned away angle,
appears pointed and somewhat downcurved, which is typical of Least
Sandpiper. Least's bills do not show the marked variation that occurs
with Semi and Western bills, and this bill fits the typical look of a
Least Sandpiper, even at the odd angle. In fact, in the photo of the
bird going away from the camera, the bill appears to have a relatively
thin base and a decurved, pointed tip, which is more consistent for
Least. Semi-P and Western show a heavy base to their bills, and both can
show a decurved, pointed tip, especially eastern Canadian Semi-P's,
whose bills are finer tipped, longer and can be more decurved than most
western Semi's. 3) While not a qualitative ID point, the posture in the
second photo is typical of the "crouching" posture that Least often
exhibits when feeding. They often feed and walk in this crouching
posture, while other peeps typically crouch when alarmed. 4) The overall
brown coloration of the back is also consistent with Least Sandpiper,
especially a first summer bird that has retained worn flight feathers
and tertials, like this bird. However, a bird that is "messed-up" in
molt timing due to leucistic or other aberrant tendencies, usually
doesn't follow the typical molt schedule of "healthy" birds. This could
result in the lack of any typical feather pattern with respect to molt
timing. There appears to be a few solid black breeding scapulars, which
would also favor Least.
> An unidentified bird was seen July 21 on the south shore of Long
> Island, NY. Any help on identification would be appreciated.
>
> http://www.battaly.com/banding/mysterybird.htm
>
>
> <http://www.battaly.com/banding/mysterybird.htm>
>
>--
>Ernie Lewis (elewis(AT)bnl.gov)
>Atmospheric Sciences Division
>Environmental Sciences Department
>Building 815E
>Brookhaven National Laboratory
>Upton, NY 11973
>631-344-7406
>631-344-2887 (fax)
>
>The book Sea Salt Aerosol Production: Mechanisms, Methods, Models, and
Measurements, by Ernie R. Lewis and Stephen E. Schwartz, is available on the web
at https://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/agubookstore?book=ASGM1524173
>
>
>
>
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
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----DELETED text/html MIME SECTION----
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Subject: Re: mystery bird at Jamaica Bay
From: Jason Rogers <hawkowl(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 28 Jul 2005 10:07am
Regarding the bill size and shape, I think Photo 1 is misleading since there
seems to be a shadow on the beach that is in line with the bill and causes
it to appear longer and thinner than it actually is. In Photo 2, if one
uses the faint highlights on the bill together with the highlights on the
rock at the tip of the bill, one can get a better sense of the bill's shape
and size.
The bird appears to be sleeked. Therefore more of the tibia is exposed.
This together with the dark-appearing legs--likely a product of too much
contrast--might cause the legs to appear relatively thin.
Do we know how large this bird was?
Regards,
Jason Rogers
Banff, AB
hawkowl(AT)hotmail.com
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Subject: Young flycatcher ID
From: Rachel Hopper <r-hopper(AT)comcast.net>
Date: 28 Jul 2005 1:04pm
I need some help identifying 2 juvenile flycatchers that I photographed on
July 25 in Rocky Mountain National Park, Colorado (on the Cub Lake Trail.) I
briefly saw one silent adult near these birds and without binoculars so I
could not identify it.
The young flycatchers were in a willow but the adult flew into a pine. This
area is a willow dominated riparian drainage surrounded by sub-alpine forest
of spruce/fir and lodgepole pine. Dusky, Hammond's, Willow and Cordilleran
all breed here. This is out of the breeding range for Gray Flycatcher.
These birds were able to fly very short distances. You can see the picture
on the CFO (Colorado Field Ornithologist) website at:
http://cfo-link.org/flycatcher.jpg
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
-----------------------
Rachel Hopper
Ft. Collins, CO
Visit the CFO website at: www.cfo-link.org
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Subject: Young Flycatcher ID/More Pics
From: Rachel Hopper <r-hopper(AT)comcast.net>
Date: 28 Jul 2005 4:07pm
Jeff Bouton asked if I had another picture that might show the underside of
the bill. I do, so I have added a couple more photos to the original. They
can now all be seen at: http://cfo-link.org/flycatcher.html
Thanks.
-----------------------
Rachel Hopper
Ft. Collins, CO
Visit the CFO website at: www.cfo-link.org
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Subject: Re: mystery bird at Jamaica Bay
From: Jason Rogers <hawkowl(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 29 Jul 2005 12:08am
I had a look at an enhanced version of Photo 2, which makes it a little more
clear that the bird's legs are too thin and, especially the tarsus, too long
to belong to a Ruddy Turnstone. In these respects they do seem to fit Least
Sandpiper.
Regards,
Jason Rogers
Banff, AB
hawkowl(AT)hotmail.com
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Subject: Molting hendersoni Short-billed Dowitcher
From: Jean Iron <jeaniron(AT)SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 30 Jul 2005 1:22pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Interest in molt is currently at an all-time high. On Thursday, July 28, we
observed an adult Short-billed Dowitcher of the subspecies hendersoni in
the early stages of definitive prebasic body molt. We previously have not
seen obvious body molt in southbound adult Short-billed Dowitchers in
southern Ontario. It was not in wing molt. Jean photographed it at Rock
Point Provincial Park on Lake Erie west of Fort Erie ON and Buffalo NY.
Photos of molting hendersoni
http://jeaniron.ca/Shorebirds/2005/Moltingadulthendersoni.htm
We've posted to both ID-Frontiers and Shorebirds because of overlapping
interest.
Jean Iron & Ron Pittaway
Toronto & Minden ON
jeaniron(AT)sympatico.ca
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