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ID-FRONTIERS for August 1-6, 2005
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Subject: Strange Florida heron/egret
From: Bill Pranty <billpranty(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 2 Aug 2005 10:38am
Good afternoon,
Harry Robinson photographed a curious heron/egret at Lake Apopka, Florida on
31 July 2005. It was a long-legged, medium-sized, mostly white bird that
perched on top of screens over a fish farm (no other wetlands in the
immediate area).
Photos are posted to: <http://www.mexicobirding.com/florida/egret.html>,
through the courtesy of Kurt Radamaker.
As is visible in the photos, the bird has a rather stocky, mostly orange
bill; yellow lores, legs, and feet; and grayish trailing edge to all the
flight feathers and grayish tail.
According to the Little Blue Heron BNA account, there is a report of a
Little Blue Heron/Cattle Eget pair that produced young in California. This
bird perhaps is the result of a similar hybrid.
Best regards,
Bill Pranty
Avon Park, Florida
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Subject: Florida heron/egret
From: Jim Barton <redwingatfp1986(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 4 Aug 2005 9:00am
OK, here goes.
!gasp...
To me, The bill size and shape immediately suggest white phase Western
Reef Heron >Egretta gularis<, possibly sub-adult. The bill is very thick at
the base and for much of its length, noticeably deeper than the eye is wide;
indeed, at the nostril the upper mandible alone is deeper than the width of
the eye. Compare bill of Cattle Egret >bubulcus ibis< and Little Blue Heron
>E. caerulea< at the same location.
The upper mandible then curves downward noticeably, and the bill ends in
dark, sharp point. Compare the shape of the bills of CAEG and LBHE.
The prominent jowls extend to the midpoint of the bill, as they do on
CAEG, but the ratio of the bill plus the lores to the depth of the head
behind the eye is about 4 to 1, vs. about 2 to 1 on CAEG. LBHE doesn't show
any jowls.
A dark phase WERH summered in Nantucket some years ago. One of the
striking things about it was the size and shape of the bill, far different
from that of LBHE, with which many observers confused it.
The white phase is a bird of the Red Sea, say HE.
For superb illustrations, see Hancock and Elliot, "The Herons of the
World," Harper and Row, New York, l978.
The FL bird appears not be an adult, judging from HE's illustration. It
certainly isn't a breeding bird. The plumage appears to be consistent with
the "2nd-cal" white phase shown in Lars Jonsson's "Birds of Europe,"
Princeton 1993, p. 64. Note the distribution of black coloration on
Jonsson's bird. .
The coloration of the lores and bill doesn't match Jonsson's
illustration. And HE present the adult with a yellow bill. But the pinkish
orange color of the bill is completely consistent with the bill coloration
of the adult white phase birds presented at www.birdsoman.com Meanwhile,
www.mangoverde.com presents adult birds with gray bills. I would gather
that bill color is quite variable. The distribution of black and yellow on
the leg also appears to be quite variable.
I might like the neck to be longer. The FL bird appears squat by
comparison with the birds presented in HE and the above websites, but herons
and egrets are notoriously protean. And compare the squat bird at the far
right on the mangoverde site.
Yours,
Jim Barton
Cambridge, MA
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Subject: Re: Florida heron/egret
From: Menotti Passarella <menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT>
Date: 4 Aug 2005 9:19am
Interesting...
To me the bill+head immediately suggest Cattle Egret and NOT suggest white
fase Western Reef Heron.
This latter is very similar to Little Egret, the default egret here in NE
Italy. So, The mystery bird may have blood of Bubulcus Ibis. The rest of the
body is another story...
Cheers
Menotti Passarella
info(AT)birdingitaly.com
www.birdingitaly.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Barton" <redwingatfp1986(AT)COMCAST.NET>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 6:00 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Florida heron/egret
> OK, here goes.
>
> !gasp...
>
> To me, The bill size and shape immediately suggest white phase Western
> Reef Heron >Egretta gularis<, possibly sub-adult. The bill is very thick
> at the base and for much of its length, noticeably deeper than the eye is
> wide; indeed, at the nostril the upper mandible alone is deeper than the
> width of the eye. Compare bill of Cattle Egret >bubulcus ibis< and Little
> Blue Heron
> >E. caerulea< at the same location.
>
> The upper mandible then curves downward noticeably, and the bill ends
> in dark, sharp point. Compare the shape of the bills of CAEG and LBHE.
>
> The prominent jowls extend to the midpoint of the bill, as they do on
> CAEG, but the ratio of the bill plus the lores to the depth of the head
> behind the eye is about 4 to 1, vs. about 2 to 1 on CAEG. LBHE doesn't
> show any jowls.
>
> A dark phase WERH summered in Nantucket some years ago. One of the
> striking things about it was the size and shape of the bill, far different
> from that of LBHE, with which many observers confused it.
>
> The white phase is a bird of the Red Sea, say HE.
>
> For superb illustrations, see Hancock and Elliot, "The Herons of the
> World," Harper and Row, New York, l978.
>
> The FL bird appears not be an adult, judging from HE's illustration.
> It certainly isn't a breeding bird. The plumage appears to be consistent
> with the "2nd-cal" white phase shown in Lars Jonsson's "Birds of Europe,"
> Princeton 1993, p. 64. Note the distribution of black coloration on
> Jonsson's bird. .
>
> The coloration of the lores and bill doesn't match Jonsson's
> illustration. And HE present the adult with a yellow bill. But the
> pinkish orange color of the bill is completely consistent with the bill
> coloration of the adult white phase birds presented at www.birdsoman.com
> Meanwhile, www.mangoverde.com presents adult birds with gray bills. I
> would gather that bill color is quite variable. The distribution of
> black and yellow on the leg also appears to be quite variable.
>
> I might like the neck to be longer. The FL bird appears squat by
> comparison with the birds presented in HE and the above websites, but
> herons and egrets are notoriously protean. And compare the squat bird at
> the far right on the mangoverde site.
>
> Yours,
>
> Jim Barton
> Cambridge, MA
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Subject: Re: Florida heron/egret
From: Fernando Arce <fernand_arce(AT)YAHOO.ES>
Date: 5 Aug 2005 7:33am
I think id didnīt arrive on the list so again.......
After a personal injurie i restart on the forum.
the bird on the photo strongly suggest, as Menotti said, a cattle egret, at
least from a Paleartic point of view, specially on the third photo.
I have some (not so good) photos of a cattle X little egret of known
parentage and itīs appearance is more intermediate, not so cattle like, as
suggested again on photo 3. I could suggest some cattle gene, but, at least
for my knowlence, my hibrid had tryed at least in two seasons pairing with
another catlle with no offspring results (I am not an expert on this
subject but it sujest a post-zigotic barrier avoiding back-crossing), but
anyway florida bird could be a backcross of calttle with and hibrid of
catlle and.... (ummm not sure, not field experience with neartic egrets).
If anyone wants to take a look to my shots, or can be posted on a web site
(Martin, are you ready?), better experts could asses florida bird in
comparison with a known cattle hybrid.
I cannot say anything about the dark feathering of the bird. it has been
observed on pure white egrets, like little egret (you can requeste some
photos to me) or on cattle egrets (you can also view a photo of a cattle
showing dark feathering on
http://www.fotodigiscoping.info/galeria/details.php?image_id=4672&mode=search )
Only said that on this paleartic species, the dark pattern of thefeathers is
quite different in comparison with florida bird, so floridadarkfeathers could be
result of an hybridization with another species withhave dark plumaje
resulting in a intermediate dark-wash appearance Bestregards: Fernando
ArceSpain----- Original Message -----From: "Menotti Passarella"
<menotti.passarella(AT)LIBERO.IT>To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>Sent: Thursday,
August 04, 2005 6:19 PMSubject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Florida heron/egret
______________________________________________
Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!
Nuevos servicios, más seguridad
http://correo.yahoo.es
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Subject: Apparent Pectoral X Baird's Sandpiper in Ontario
From: Alan Wormington <wormington(AT)JUNO.COM>
Date: 5 Aug 2005 5:40pm
Early this evening (August 5) I observed at close range an apparent
Pectoral X Baird's Sandpiper hybrid at Hillman Marsh, Essex County,
Ontario.
The bird was an adult, with generally intermediate characteristics plus
other features.
I already have some references on known shorebird hybrids, but if someone
could provide any references to specifically this hybrid type -- which I
believe has previously been reported -- it would be most appreciated.
Alan Wormington
Leamington, Ontario
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Subject: AOU 46th supplement
From: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker(AT)ZIPCON.NET>
Date: 6 Aug 2005 3:24pm
HI:
The latest AOU Checklist supplement is available on-line at:
http://www.aou.org/checklist/Suppl46.pdf
The Black-backed Wagtail is RE-lumped with the White Wagtail.
--
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way!"
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