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ID-FRONTIERS for August 14-20, 2005
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Messages are displayed in the order they were received.
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| Subject | From | Date | Time |
| Cormorant ID | Tim Vaughan | Sun, 14 Aug 2005 | 3:41am |
| Sandpiper ID- New York | Thomas J. Dunkerton | Sun, 14 Aug 2005 | 8:01pm |
| Re: Sandpiper ID- New York | Kevin Karlson | Mon, 15 Aug 2005 | 1:47pm |
| Help with a night-heron identification | DSUDDJIAN(AT)AOL.COM | Tue, 16 Aug 2005 | 8:28am |
| Re: Help with a night-heron identification | Kevin McGowan | Tue, 16 Aug 2005 | 8:39am |
| ID of egret on Surfbirds | Martin Reid | Wed, 17 Aug 2005 | 4:17am |
| Re: ID of egret on Surfbirds | =?iso-8859-1?Q?Carlo | Wed, 17 Aug 2005 | 5:08am |
| Re: surfbirds egret | julian hough | Wed, 17 Aug 2005 | 6:43am |
| Re: surfbirds egret | Martin Reid | Wed, 17 Aug 2005 | 11:48am |
| Re: surfbirds egret | Lethaby, Nick | Wed, 17 Aug 2005 | 11:57am |
| Re: surfbirds egret | julian hough | Wed, 17 Aug 2005 | 12:37pm |
| "Dastardly Duos" identification articles are
online | Phil Davis | Wed, 17 Aug 2005 | 11:20pm |
| Re: surfbirds egret | Martin Reid | Thu, 18 Aug 2005 | 3:19am |
| Re: surfbirds egret | Matt Sharp | Thu, 18 Aug 2005 | 7:44am |
| Re: surfbirds egret | Floyd Hayes | Thu, 18 Aug 2005 | 9:38am |
| Dunlin/Western ID-MINWR | Thomas J. Dunkerton | Thu, 18 Aug 2005 | 5:16pm |
| Re: Dunlin/Western ID-MINWR | Julian Hough | Thu, 18 Aug 2005 | 7:03pm |
| Pete Dunne's books | Ian Paulsen | Fri, 19 Aug 2005 | 10:23am |
| Re: Dunlin/Western ID-MINWR | Kevin Karlson | Sat, 20 Aug 2005 | 12:10pm |
|
To use email addresses replace '(AT)' with '@'.
This is done to confuse the spam 'bots.
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Subject: Cormorant ID
From: Tim Vaughan <timvaughan(AT)TALK21.COM>
Date: 14 Aug 2005 3:41am
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Hi everyone,
Comments are invited on the ID of the Cormorant spp posted on Surfbirds ID
discussion page:
http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery28
The photograph was taken by another birder, so I am unable to comment on the
in-field appearance.
Is this bird a North Atlantic, Continental or Double Crested ?
Best wishes
Tim Vaughan
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail
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Subject: Sandpiper ID- New York
From: "Thomas J. Dunkerton" <Woundedmallard67(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 14 Aug 2005 8:01pm
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Hey everybirdy,
Imaged this sandpiper at Great Kills Park in Staten Island, New York on
July 30th, 2005. It looked a little odd to me but, initially, I chalked it up
to being a molting adult Semipalmated Sandpiper. After getting it home and
bringing it up full size, I began to have doubts. It was foraging with a
Least Sandpiper so size difference was apparent but it didn't seem big enough
to
be a Baird's or White-rumped as well as not having the primaries extend over
the tail.
I would appreciate any input that anyone might have. The photos are at:
_http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas/id_da_boids_
(http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas/id_da_boids)
Please respond either to my e-mail address or the Listserv rather than the
comment box on the website. Thank you for your time.
See you out there!
Thomas J. Dunkerton
Titusville, FL
_www.pbase.com/boidpikchas_ (http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas)
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Subject: Re: Sandpiper ID- New York
From: Kevin Karlson <karlson3(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 15 Aug 2005 1:47pm
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Response to Sandpiper ID, by Kevin Karlson
This bird is an adult Semi-palmated Sandpiper with a very long bill.
Female Semi's from eastern North America can have very long bills
compared to geographic western Semi's that I worked with in the Alaskan
Arctic for four summers. These eastern Semi's can have long, pointed and
often decurved bills that approach male Westerns in length and shape,
but their structure is quite different. Semi's have small heads in
relation to their bodies, and their weight distribution is very
proportional from front to back. This often results in their relaxed
feeding posture being very horizontal, with the small head somewhat
obvious. Westerns on the other hand are proportionally front heavy, with
a bulky upper chest and large, "puffy" head. This overall front heavy
look is fairly obvious once comparisons are made in the field, and often
results in them "tipping forward" to feed. This Semi's plumage is
typical of a molting adult, with a salt and pepper look to the back.
Primaries that extend to just about the tail tip is also typical for
Semi, and would rule out Bairds or White-rumped.
Thomas J. Dunkerton wrote:
> Hey everybirdy,
>
> Imaged this sandpiper at Great Kills Park in Staten Island, New York
> on July 30th, 2005. It looked a little odd to me but, initially, I
> chalked it up to being a molting adult Semipalmated Sandpiper. After
> getting it home and bringing it up full size, I began to have doubts.
> It was foraging with a Least Sandpiper so size difference was apparent
> but it didn't seem big enough to be a Baird's or White-rumped as well
> as not having the primaries extend over the tail.
> I would appreciate any input that anyone might have. The photos are at:
> http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas/id_da_boids
>
> Please respond either to my e-mail address or the Listserv rather
> than the comment box on the website. Thank you for your time.
> See you out there!
>
> Thomas J. Dunkerton
> Titusville, FL
> www.pbase.com/boidpikchas <http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas>
>
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
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>
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Subject: Help with a night-heron identification
From: DSUDDJIAN(AT)AOL.COM
Date: 16 Aug 2005 8:28am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
An interesting (or so it seems to us) night-heron was first observed at
Natural Bridges State Beach, Santa Cruz Co., CA on Aug 10, and was photographed
then and on August 13. It was initially reported as a young (age?)
Yellow-crowned Night-Heron (a vagrant in CA), and was studied in comparison with
an
obvious Black-crowned Night-Heron. Subsequent observations have raised
questions
about the ID, suggesting it may be more likely an odd Black-crowned
Night-Heron, although many who have viewed it thought the bird does not seem to
fit
cleanly "into the box" for either night-heron species. Review of literature and
various images shows a fair degree of variation in some features, such as
bill coloration. I welcome any input on the identification, esp. from those with
more experience with young Yellow-crowned Night-Heron.
Some photos are at these links:
_http://www.santacruzbirdclub.org/herons.doc_
(http://www.santacruzbirdclub.org/herons.doc)
Two photos in a Word file comparing the mystery night-heron (on the left)
and a typical young Black-crowned (on the right). Note the differing pattern on
the wing coverts.
http://community.webshots.com/user/kumaranarul
A series of images of the mystery Night-Heron
The bird has not been observed in flight to assess leg length in that
posture, and no calls have been reported.
Thanks,
David Suddjian
Capitola CA
dsuddjian(AT)aol.com
Santa Cruz Bird Club
Bird Club Website: _www.santacruzbirdclub.org_ (http://www.santa/)
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Subject: Re: Help with a night-heron identification
From: Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 16 Aug 2005 8:39am
I'd give this one a clean identification as a Black-crowned
Night-Heron. It is identical in posture to the Black-crowned photo given
for comparison (and completely typical of the species), the lower mandible
is pale at the base (identical to a Black-crowned), and although the wing
spots are oddly broken, they're quite large, and if considered as broken
large spots, identical to those on a Black-crowned. Back color and
underpart striping also is that of Black-crowned.
Kevin
At 11:27 AM 8/16/2005, DSUDDJIAN(AT)aol.com wrote:
>An interesting (or so it seems to us) night-heron was first observed at
>Natural Bridges State Beach, Santa Cruz Co., CA on Aug 10, and was
>photographed then and on August 13. It was initially reported as a young
>(age?) Yellow-crowned Night-Heron (a vagrant in CA), and was studied in
>comparison with an obvious Black-crowned Night-Heron. Subsequent
>observations have raised questions about the ID, suggesting it may be more
>likely an odd Black-crowned Night-Heron, although many who have viewed it
>thought the bird does not seem to fit cleanly "into the box" for either
>night-heron species. Review of literature and various images shows a fair
>degree of variation in some features, such as bill coloration. I welcome
>any input on the identification, esp. from those with more experience with
>young Yellow-crowned Night-Heron.
>
>Some photos are at these links:
>
><http://www.santacruzbirdclub.org/herons.doc>http://www.santacruzbirdclub.org/herons.doc
>Two photos in a Word file comparing the mystery night-heron (on the left)
>and a typical young Black-crowned (on the right). Note the differing
>pattern on the wing coverts.
>
>http://community.webshots.com/user/kumaranarul
>A series of images of the mystery Night-Heron
>
>The bird has not been observed in flight to assess leg length in that
>posture, and no calls have been reported.
>
>Thanks,
>
>David Suddjian
>Capitola CA
>dsuddjian(AT)aol.com
>Santa Cruz Bird Club
>Bird Club Website: <http://www.santa/>www.santacruzbirdclub.org
>
>Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
>http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
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*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan
Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/
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Subject: ID of egret on Surfbirds
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 17 Aug 2005 4:17am
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Dear All,
First an update on replies to my previous request for comments on
pics shown on SURFBIRDS:
The dowitcher - I dunno why it got my goat that morning, but the few
replies all indicate, rightly, that it is a perfectly normal
Long-billed; sorry about that.
The golden-plover - I only got one reply on that bird, agreeing with
my thought that it is indeed a Pacific, despite the long wings, dark
crown, unimpressive bill, and short-looking legs. This is an example
of a bird where the sum of its parts does not add up to its true
identity.
Now to this request - please take a look at the egret towards the
bottom of this page:
http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=gallery21&start=25
- I contend that this bird is indistinguishable from a juvenile
Snowy Egret. I'd love to get some feedback on this bird as to its
age, the yellowish lores (on a bird i feel is a juv), extensive
yellow on tHe legs, and the shortish thin-tipped bill. I recently
photographed a juv Snowy (here in Texas) with dark gray lores - a
phenomenon that is not as rare as I'd once thought. I know that some
Asian Little Egret populations are yellow-lored as adults - but what
about juvs? Can juv western Little egrets have yellowish lores?
Cheers,
Martin
--
>Martin Reid
>San Antonio, Texas
>mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
>http://www.martinreid.com
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Subject: Re: ID of egret on Surfbirds
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Carlos_S=E1nchez?= <casade(AT)WANADOO.ES>
Date: 17 Aug 2005 5:08am
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
ID of egret on SurfbirdsHi Martin and all,
you can take a look at the following note:
Dies, J. I. 2005. Note: Little Egret with yellow lores. British Birds 98 =
(4): 213-214, where a bird is shown photographed in l'Albufera de =
Valencia, eastern Spain on 10th July 2001. As Jos=E9 Ignacio Dies tells =
(jidies(AT)hotmail.com), the ornamental filoplumes on the nape and the =
wholly dark tibia readily ruled out Snowy Egret and were tipical of =
Little Egret.
Cheers,
Carlos S=E1nchez
Madrid, Spain
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Martin Reid=20
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU=20
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:17 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] ID of egret on Surfbirds
Dear All,
First an update on replies to my previous request for comments on pics =
shown on SURFBIRDS:
The dowitcher - I dunno why it got my goat that morning, but the few =
replies all indicate, rightly, that it is a perfectly normal =
Long-billed; sorry about that.
The golden-plover - I only got one reply on that bird, agreeing with =
my thought that it is indeed a Pacific, despite the long wings, dark =
crown, unimpressive bill, and short-looking legs. This is an example of =
a bird where the sum of its parts does not add up to its true identity.
Now to this request - please take a look at the egret towards the =
bottom of this page:
=
http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/display.cgi?gallery=3Dgallery21&=
start=3D25
- I contend that this bird is indistinguishable from a juvenile Snowy =
Egret. I'd love to get some feedback on this bird as to its age, the =
yellowish lores (on a bird i feel is a juv), extensive yellow on tHe =
legs, and the shortish thin-tipped bill. I recently photographed a juv =
Snowy (here in Texas) with dark gray lores - a phenomenon that is not as =
rare as I'd once thought. I know that some Asian Little Egret =
populations are yellow-lored as adults - but what about juvs? Can juv =
western Little egrets have yellowish lores?
Cheers,
Martin
--=20
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: =
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Subject: Re: surfbirds egret
From: julian hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 17 Aug 2005 6:43am
Martin,
I agree that this bird superficially resembles a juv.
Snowy Egret, but with slightly duller lores and a less
paler bill base than a Snowy.
Young Snowies that I see at this time of year have
short bills and tarsii that have not developed in
color and appear all lime-green at a distance. To me
these really young birds are reminiscent of juv.
Little Blues until their bills become long and the
legs become dark along the front of the legs. These
juv. Snowies show cleaner (maybe slightly duller in
colour during August than in September) lores than
juv. Little in August, but again my perception is that
the lores are still a cleaner yellow than in a typical
young juv. Little.
However, I have seen variation in both species with
regards to loral colour, but now that Little Egrets
are breeding in the UK and observers are seeing fresh
juv. Little Egrets more frequently than they did
previously, the colour of the bare parts being a
yellowish-brown, or dull yellow is not an anomaly for
a juv. Little.
As in Snowy Egret, as the month progresses the bare
parts will change quite a bit to fit the expected
appearances of both species.
I would presume such an individual to be a Little
Egret rather than a Snowy, based not on plumage but
the probability factors of location and date.
Regards,
Julian Hough,
CT, USA
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Subject: Re: surfbirds egret
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 17 Aug 2005 11:48am
Dear Julian and all,
To follow-up on Julian's comments:
My current local patch is Mitchell Lake Audubon Center in southern
San Antonio, Texas. For the last three weeks there have been between
six hundred and one thousand Snowy Egrets at the site, allowing for
unparalleled study of the variations (also many juv/adult Little
Blues, Cattles, etc.)
I did not claim that the SURFBIRDS bird was a snowy; I stated that I
felt it was indistinguishable from a juv snowy - and I stick to that.
Right now I see juv snowies with all-dark bills, pale-based bills (
up to two-thirds flesh-color), lores that are bright yellow, dull
yellow, greenish-yellow, grayish yellow, grayish-green, and pure
gray. I see birds with legs that are almost all greenish yellow (
most common) but also some with reasonable amounts of black on the
legs (usually on the front.)
The bill shape of this UK Little Egret is a perfect match for many
young Snowies... do juv Littles regularly show such an
evenly-tapering point to the bill?
I highlighted this bird because here in North America it has become
clear in recent years that a juv Little Egret is probably not
identifiable due to variation in juv Snowy; it would seem that in
Europe the reverse is true.
Cheers,
Martin
>Martin,
>
>I agree that this bird superficially resembles a juv.
>Snowy Egret, but with slightly duller lores and a less
>paler bill base than a Snowy.
>
>Young Snowies that I see at this time of year have
>short bills and tarsii that have not developed in
>color and appear all lime-green at a distance. To me
>these really young birds are reminiscent of juv.
>Little Blues until their bills become long and the
>legs become dark along the front of the legs. These
>juv. Snowies show cleaner (maybe slightly duller in
>colour during August than in September) lores than
>juv. Little in August, but again my perception is that
>the lores are still a cleaner yellow than in a typical
>young juv. Little.
>
>However, I have seen variation in both species with
>regards to loral colour, but now that Little Egrets
>are breeding in the UK and observers are seeing fresh
>juv. Little Egrets more frequently than they did
>previously, the colour of the bare parts being a
>yellowish-brown, or dull yellow is not an anomaly for
>a juv. Little.
>As in Snowy Egret, as the month progresses the bare
>parts will change quite a bit to fit the expected
>appearances of both species.
>
>I would presume such an individual to be a Little
>Egret rather than a Snowy, based not on plumage but
>the probability factors of location and date.
>
>Regards,
>
>Julian Hough,
>CT, USA
>
>
>
>Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
>Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
--
>Martin Reid
>San Antonio, Texas
>mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
>http://www.martinreid.com
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Subject: Re: surfbirds egret
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 17 Aug 2005 11:57am
Martin and all:
I think this statement may need to be qualified a bit since I believe
juv plumage may be held for a year (if I'm wrong I apologize). I think
young juvs can be very tricky, but typically a lot of the variation in
loral and leg color tends to disappear by Sept/Oct.
Nick Lethaby
DSP/BIOS Product Manager
Software Development Systems
Texas Instruments
805 562 5106
nlethaby(AT)ti.com
-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Martin Reid
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:49 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] surfbirds egret
Dear Julian and all,
To follow-up on Julian's comments:
My current local patch is Mitchell Lake Audubon Center in southern
San Antonio, Texas. For the last three weeks there have been between
six hundred and one thousand Snowy Egrets at the site, allowing for
unparalleled study of the variations (also many juv/adult Little
Blues, Cattles, etc.)
I did not claim that the SURFBIRDS bird was a snowy; I stated that I
felt it was indistinguishable from a juv snowy - and I stick to that.
Right now I see juv snowies with all-dark bills, pale-based bills (
up to two-thirds flesh-color), lores that are bright yellow, dull
yellow, greenish-yellow, grayish yellow, grayish-green, and pure
gray. I see birds with legs that are almost all greenish yellow (
most common) but also some with reasonable amounts of black on the
legs (usually on the front.)
The bill shape of this UK Little Egret is a perfect match for many
young Snowies... do juv Littles regularly show such an
evenly-tapering point to the bill?
I highlighted this bird because here in North America it has become
clear in recent years that a juv Little Egret is probably not
identifiable due to variation in juv Snowy; it would seem that in
Europe the reverse is true.
Cheers,
Martin
>Martin,
>
>I agree that this bird superficially resembles a juv.
>Snowy Egret, but with slightly duller lores and a less
>paler bill base than a Snowy.
>
>Young Snowies that I see at this time of year have
>short bills and tarsii that have not developed in
>color and appear all lime-green at a distance. To me
>these really young birds are reminiscent of juv.
>Little Blues until their bills become long and the
>legs become dark along the front of the legs. These
>juv. Snowies show cleaner (maybe slightly duller in
>colour during August than in September) lores than
>juv. Little in August, but again my perception is that
>the lores are still a cleaner yellow than in a typical
>young juv. Little.
>
>However, I have seen variation in both species with
>regards to loral colour, but now that Little Egrets
>are breeding in the UK and observers are seeing fresh
>juv. Little Egrets more frequently than they did
>previously, the colour of the bare parts being a
>yellowish-brown, or dull yellow is not an anomaly for
>a juv. Little.
>As in Snowy Egret, as the month progresses the bare
>parts will change quite a bit to fit the expected
>appearances of both species.
>
>I would presume such an individual to be a Little
>Egret rather than a Snowy, based not on plumage but
>the probability factors of location and date.
>
>Regards,
>
>Julian Hough,
>CT, USA
>
>
>
>Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
>Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
--
>Martin Reid
>San Antonio, Texas
>mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
>http://www.martinreid.com
Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: surfbirds egret
From: julian hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 17 Aug 2005 12:37pm
Martin,
I don't believe anyone was suggesting you thought the
bird was anything but a juv. Little.
My point was that at face value, some birds are tricky
and without the benefit of knowing the location, some
birds can be very problematical (similar to us trying
to claim Herring Gulls and yellow-legged Herring gulls
in the eastern US!)
The variation of plumages in birds is something that
will always be the 'x' factor when rarity-hunting.
Best,
Julian
--- "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM> wrote:
> Martin and all:
>
> I think this statement may need to be qualified a
> bit since I believe
> juv plumage may be held for a year (if I'm wrong I
> apologize). I think
> young juvs can be very tricky, but typically a lot
> of the variation in
> loral and leg color tends to disappear by Sept/Oct.
>
> Nick Lethaby
> DSP/BIOS Product Manager
> Software Development Systems
> Texas Instruments
> 805 562 5106
> nlethaby(AT)ti.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field
> Identification
> [mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Martin Reid
> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:49 AM
> To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] surfbirds egret
>
> Dear Julian and all,
> To follow-up on Julian's comments:
> My current local patch is Mitchell Lake Audubon
> Center in southern
> San Antonio, Texas. For the last three weeks there
> have been between
> six hundred and one thousand Snowy Egrets at the
> site, allowing for
> unparalleled study of the variations (also many
> juv/adult Little
> Blues, Cattles, etc.)
> I did not claim that the SURFBIRDS bird was a snowy;
> I stated that I
> felt it was indistinguishable from a juv snowy - and
> I stick to that.
> Right now I see juv snowies with all-dark bills,
> pale-based bills (
> up to two-thirds flesh-color), lores that are bright
> yellow, dull
> yellow, greenish-yellow, grayish yellow,
> grayish-green, and pure
> gray. I see birds with legs that are almost all
> greenish yellow (
> most common) but also some with reasonable amounts
> of black on the
> legs (usually on the front.)
> The bill shape of this UK Little Egret is a perfect
> match for many
> young Snowies... do juv Littles regularly show such
> an
> evenly-tapering point to the bill?
> I highlighted this bird because here in North
> America it has become
> clear in recent years that a juv Little Egret is
> probably not
> identifiable due to variation in juv Snowy; it
> would seem that in
> Europe the reverse is true.
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
>
> >Martin,
> >
> >I agree that this bird superficially resembles a
> juv.
> >Snowy Egret, but with slightly duller lores and a
> less
> >paler bill base than a Snowy.
> >
> >Young Snowies that I see at this time of year have
> >short bills and tarsii that have not developed in
> >color and appear all lime-green at a distance. To
> me
> >these really young birds are reminiscent of juv.
> >Little Blues until their bills become long and the
> >legs become dark along the front of the legs. These
> >juv. Snowies show cleaner (maybe slightly duller in
> >colour during August than in September) lores than
> >juv. Little in August, but again my perception is
> that
> >the lores are still a cleaner yellow than in a
> typical
> >young juv. Little.
> >
> >However, I have seen variation in both species with
> >regards to loral colour, but now that Little Egrets
> >are breeding in the UK and observers are seeing
> fresh
> >juv. Little Egrets more frequently than they did
> >previously, the colour of the bare parts being a
> >yellowish-brown, or dull yellow is not an anomaly
> for
> >a juv. Little.
> >As in Snowy Egret, as the month progresses the bare
> >parts will change quite a bit to fit the expected
> >appearances of both species.
> >
> >I would presume such an individual to be a Little
> >Egret rather than a Snowy, based not on plumage but
> >the probability factors of location and date.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Julian Hough,
> >CT, USA
> >
> >
> >
> >Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
>
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> >
> >Archives:
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
>
> --
> >Martin Reid
> >San Antonio, Texas
> >mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
> >http://www.martinreid.com
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: "Dastardly Duos" identification articles are
online
From: Phil Davis <pdavis(AT)IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: 17 Aug 2005 11:20pm
Frontiers:
I just discovered that the series of Larry Liese's "Dastardly Duos" forty
(40) identification articles from the 2000 - 2004 issues of the Tucson
Audubon Society's _Vermillion Flycatcher_ newsletters is now online. Here's
the URL ...
http://www.tucsonaudubon.org/birding/duos.htm
Enjoy.
Phil
==================================
Phil Davis Davidsonville, Maryland USA
mailto:PDavis(AT)ix.netcom.com
==================================
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: surfbirds egret
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 18 Aug 2005 3:19am
Dear Julian, Nick and all,
No need to explain, Julian - I knew you weren't suggesting that! But
sometimes I've had my previous speculations misinterpreted as claims,
so I chose to clarify my position on this topic.
I fully agree that there are a number of species pairs where the
location dictates the assumed ID until there is enough evidence to
the contrary.
And Nick is correct about the period for which my previous comments
apply. I'm not sure that the term "juvenile plumage" should include
bare parts (what do you think?) - but by some time before Winter -
usually within a month or two - the bare parts generally acquire the
coloration of that for non-breeding adults.
The problem comes with knowing what the late extreme is for a juv
egret to retain "first generation" bare part colors? - this is also
true for eye color in dark Ibis...
Cheers,
Martin
>Martin,
>
>I agree that this bird superficially resembles a juv.
>Snowy Egret, but with slightly duller lores and a less
>paler bill base than a Snowy.
>
>Young Snowies that I see at this time of year have
>short bills and tarsii that have not developed in
>color and appear all lime-green at a distance. To me
>these really young birds are reminiscent of juv.
>Little Blues until their bills become long and the
>legs become dark along the front of the legs. These
>juv. Snowies show cleaner (maybe slightly duller in
>colour during August than in September) lores than
>juv. Little in August, but again my perception is that
>the lores are still a cleaner yellow than in a typical
>young juv. Little.
>
>However, I have seen variation in both species with
>regards to loral colour, but now that Little Egrets
>are breeding in the UK and observers are seeing fresh
>juv. Little Egrets more frequently than they did
>previously, the colour of the bare parts being a
>yellowish-brown, or dull yellow is not an anomaly for
>a juv. Little.
>As in Snowy Egret, as the month progresses the bare
>parts will change quite a bit to fit the expected
>appearances of both species.
>
>I would presume such an individual to be a Little
>Egret rather than a Snowy, based not on plumage but
>the probability factors of location and date.
>
>Regards,
>
>Julian Hough,
>CT, USA
>
>
>
>Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
>Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
--
>Martin Reid
>San Antonio, Texas
>mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
>http://www.martinreid.com
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: surfbirds egret
From: Matt Sharp <sharp(AT)ACNATSCI.ORG>
Date: 18 Aug 2005 7:44am
Martin Reid wrote
>I'm not sure that the term "juvenile plumage" should include
>bare parts (what do you think?) - but by some time before Winter -
>usually within a month or two - the bare parts generally acquire the
>coloration of that for non-breeding adults.
>The problem comes with knowing what the late extreme is for a juv
>egret to retain "first generation" bare part colors? - this is also
>true for eye color in dark Ibis...
I think the mechanisms of variation in plumage and bare-part colors
is very different, and I agree with Martin that plumage terminology
may not accurately include bare-part colors.
My guess is that bare-part colors relates more to health and only
secondarily to age. I have heard people say, but have not seen
it published that some older birds, specifically terns, can show bill
and leg colors of juvs/immatures.
In many cases and especially ardeids bare parts play an important
signaling role in courtship and so would likely be less variable in
breeding age/seasoned individuals than in non-breeding age/seasoned
individuals.
Matt
Matt Sharp
Collection Manager
VIREO/ANS
1900 Benjamin Franklin Pkwy.
Philadelphia PA 19103
http://vireo.acnatsci.org
(tel.) 215-299-1069
(fax) 215-299-1182
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: surfbirds egret
From: Floyd Hayes <floyd_hayes(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 18 Aug 2005 9:38am
Forehead slope might be the best clue for identifying
juvenile Little/Snowy Egrets. The egret on Surfbirds
has a relatively flat forehead typical of Little
Egret. Snowy Egret has a steeper sloping forehead, but
beware of ruffled feathers which may make the forehead
look steeper on Little Egret.
Floyd Hayes
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Dunlin/Western ID-MINWR
From: "Thomas J. Dunkerton" <Woundedmallard67(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 18 Aug 2005 5:16pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Hey Everybirdy,
I posted a photo on a local listserv and Identified the bird as an
immmature Dunlin. It is has been questioned to be a large Western Sandpiper. I
myself am still "riding the fence" at the moment and the more I scrutinize, the
more I ambeing swayed.
I was under the impression that an immature Dunlin would not necessarily
have as curved a bill as an adult in addition to looking closer to a breeding
plumed adult. While the bird certainly appears to be a juvenile of it's
species, still having some white fringed scapulars, it would make for a rather
large Western 'piper it seems.
I am fully prepared to "eat my shorts" on this one lol. But I would like
to know what some of you think, if you would be so kind as to check out the
pics at the link below.
Thank you for your time.
_http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas/id_da_boids_2_
(http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas/id_da_boids_2)
See you out there!
Thomas J. Dunkerton
Titusville, FL
_www.pbase.com/boidpikchas_ (http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas)
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Dunlin/Western ID-MINWR
From: Julian Hough <jrhough1(AT)SNET.NET>
Date: 18 Aug 2005 7:03pm
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Thomas,
The bird is not a Dunlin and would appear to be a Western Sandpiper as =
you suggest. However, the photos are (don't take this personally!) not =
the best to see plumage detail. I'm not sure from these photos that I =
would say definitely it's a Western and I wonder if you can safely =
eliminate the possibility the bird could be a large female 'long-billed' =
Semipalmated?
Best,
=20
Julian Hough,
CT, USA
jrhough1(AT)snet.net
www.naturescapeimages.net
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Thomas J. Dunkerton=20
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU=20
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 8:16 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Dunlin/Western ID-MINWR
Hey Everybirdy,=20
I posted a photo on a local listserv and Identified the bird as an =
immmature Dunlin. It is has been questioned to be a large Western =
Sandpiper. I myself am still "riding the fence" at the moment and the =
more I scrutinize, the more I ambeing swayed. =20
I was under the impression that an immature Dunlin would not =
necessarily have as curved a bill as an adult in addition to looking =
closer to a breeding plumed adult. While the bird certainly appears to =
be a juvenile of it's species, still having some white fringed =
scapulars, it would make for a rather large Western 'piper it seems.
I am fully prepared to "eat my shorts" on this one lol. But I would =
like to know what some of you think, if you would be so kind as to check =
out the pics at the link below.
Thank you for your time.
http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas/id_da_boids_2
See you out there!=20
Thomas J. Dunkerton
Titusville, FL
www.pbase.com/boidpikchas=20
Join or Leave BIRDWG01: =
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Pete Dunne's books
From: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker(AT)ZIPCON.NET>
Date: 19 Aug 2005 10:23am
HI:
I got an e-mail this morning from Pete Dunne and he talks about his TWO
new books:
Yeah, new book. Two actually. HM book will (probably) be called PETE
DUNNE'S ESSENTIAL FIELD GUIDE COMPANION. It's
desigened to be a supppliment to existiing guides, augmenting, not
supplanting their contribution. Lots of GIZ. No photos. No
illustrations.
Other book. Pete Dunne on Pishing. Books are due out next year.
--
Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way!"
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[ << | >> | ^^ ]
Subject: Re: Dunlin/Western ID-MINWR
From: Kevin Karlson <karlson3(AT)COMCAST.NET>
Date: 20 Aug 2005 12:10pm
----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----
Response to Dunlin/Western ID by Kevin Karlson
These are my short comments on the 7 jpegs posted concerning these
shorebirds. This is a typical grouping of three species of juvenile peep
in the eastern US in August. The bird in question is a Western
Sandpiper, but there is also another juvenile Western in several photos,
as well as two juv Least Sandpipers and a single small billed (probably
male) juvenile Semipalmated Sandpiper. The photos are somewhat dark and
plumage features are difficult to see, which is why structure and size
comparisons are very helpful here. The bird in question, which appears
in all 7 photos, is a juvenile Western Sandpiper. The long bill with a
thick base and tapered tip is somewhat helpful to the ID, but it is very
similar to very long billed female eastern Canadian Semipalmated
Sandpipers. Some eastern US female Semi's have bills very similar to
this bird, so other features should be noted. The very large size
compared to nearby Least and Semipalmated Sandpipers is also helpful, as
is the large, somewhat 'puffy' head and bulky, overweighted upper breast.
Photo #1 jpeg is a good shot to compare the 'front heavy' structure of
the Western Sandpipers (2nd from left and far right) with a thicker neck
than than the adjacent Semipalmated Sandpiper (2nd from right). The
thicker neck, when retracted, results in this front heavy, bulky look to
Western Sandpiper, similar to the structure of Long-billed versus
Short-billed Dowitcher. This Semi shows the smaller, more rounded headed
look and more balanced proportions (a somewhat no-necked look) that
helps to immediately separate Semi's from Westerns, regardless of
lighting or plumage. Westerns are also typically longer legged, which is
obvious for both birds in this photo. The two Leasts in this shot are
smaller headed and much darker overall than both Semi and Western, with
a mostly dark, complete bib.
The best shot of the Western is jpeg #7, where the bird is in side
profile. The front heavy proportions, long legs, somewhat large head and
bulky neck, pale forehead and lower face and long bill with a thick base
and very tapered tip all help to firm up the ID of Western Sandpiper.
The front heavy structure on this bird also results in a more angled
back, which in Semipalmated is typically fairly horizontal in a relaxed
stance such as this. These structural field tips are best determined in
the field, since photos can be misleading and may capture an atypical
posture in a single moment. The Least Sandpiper directly in front of the
Western is also useful as a size comparison, while the other peep might
be a juv Semi, due to the lack of a noticeable supercilium and more
compact body shape. This photos makes this bird a bit more difficult to
ID due to the dark photo, but the mostly dark head and paler upper
breast suggest juv Semi.
jpeg photos #2 is the best one for lighting, where the dark centered
scapulars with strong rusty edges can be seen in comparison to paler
wing coverts with dark central shaft and mostly gray fringes. This
plumage feature reinforces the ID of juv Western Sandpiper. The large
puffy head and bulky chested structure is also evident in this shot.
Semi would have a balanced appearance in a side profile like this, with
an somewhat equal distribution of weight on either side of the legs, and
a smaller, more rounded head.
Juv Dunlin may show a shorter bill at this early date, but it is still
noticeably longer than this Western and shows a very thick base. Juv
Dunlin at this early date would also show very strong rusty/buff feather
edges to the upper back and wing coverts, with strong streaking across
the upper breast and black smudges on the mid-belly. They often show a
cinnamon head, neck and lower throat if seen as early as August, but
this feature is variable.
Thomas J. Dunkerton wrote:
> Hey Everybirdy,
>
> I posted a photo on a local listserv and Identified the bird as an
> immmature Dunlin. It is has been questioned to be a large Western
> Sandpiper. I myself am still "riding the fence" at the moment and the
> more I scrutinize, the more I ambeing swayed.
> I was under the impression that an immature Dunlin would not
> necessarily have as curved a bill as an adult in addition to looking
> closer to a breeding plumed adult. While the bird certainly appears
> to be a juvenile of it's species, still having some white fringed
> scapulars, it would make for a rather large Western 'piper it seems.
> I am fully prepared to "eat my shorts" on this one lol. But I would
> like to know what some of you think, if you would be so kind as to
> check out the pics at the link below.
> Thank you for your time.
>
> http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas/id_da_boids_2
>
> See you out there!
>
> Thomas J. Dunkerton
> Titusville, FL
> www.pbase.com/boidpikchas <http://www.pbase.com/boidpikchas>
>
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
> http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
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