ID-FRONTIERS for June 18-24, 2006

Messages are displayed in the order they were received.  Subject  From  Date   Time   RFI: perceived natural size vs measured size on passerines   Martin Reid    Sun, 18 Jun 2006   6:32am   Dement'ev & Gladkov on gulls   Peter Pyle    Mon, 19 Jun 2006   10:13am   NEW OWL CD   Ian Paulsen    Mon, 19 Jun 2006   10:31am   Odd Loon   Mary Beth Stowe    Mon, 19 Jun 2006   4:39pm   Re: Odd Loon   Louis Bevier    Mon, 19 Jun 2006   7:37pm   Re: Odd Loon   Norman D.van Swelm   Tue, 20 Jun 2006   1:43am   Glaucous Gull variation   Lethaby, Nick   Tue, 20 Jun 2006   8:21am   Pectoral sac   Frode Falkenberg    Thu, 22 Jun 2006   1:52pm   Another Mystery Oriole in eastern PA   Dave DeReamus    Thu, 22 Jun 2006   7:44pm   Field Identification of Western Flycatcher variants   Arch McCallum    Fri, 23 Jun 2006   8:28am   Re: Pectoral sac   Rex Stanford    Fri, 23 Jun 2006   6:58pm   Re: Pectoral sac   Norman D.van Swelm   Sat, 24 Jun 2006   5:00am   Re: Pectoral sac (on migration)   Jean Iron    Sat, 24 Jun 2006   7:48am

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Subject: RFI: perceived natural size vs measured size on
         passerines
From: Martin Reid <upupa(AT)AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: 18 Jun 2006 6:32am

Dear All,
I am in the process of analyzing images (not mine) of a very rare 
flycatcher for Texas and the U.S.  I have been able to  obtain the 
actual perch that is in the photos, and thus able to estimate to a 
reasonable degree the size of the bird as it looks in the images - 
i.e. it's natural pose with the body at a steep angle (but obviously 
not vertical) and the head held with the bill roughly horizontally - 
but given the from-below view the photo perspective is rather 
different.
My challenge is how to interpret that natural size and compare it to 
empirical data for the two contender species.  From reading Banding 
books I gather that total length data are obtained by laying the live 
bird on its back on a rule, gently pressing the tail and underside of 
the bill down, and measuring from the tip of the bill to the tip of 
the longest retrix.  Has anyone attempt to derive usable ratios of 
this "stretched-out" length quoted in all the books, compared to the 
apparent size of the naturally perched bird?
Clearly this will vary depending on the typical perching traits of 
the species/family, but generally speaking, most Flycatchers adopt a 
similar posture, so I am wondering if there is any way to extrapolate 
such data??
For example, my mystery flycatcher seems to have a natural size of 
5.5 - 5.7 inches, compared to the actual branch it is perched on. 
This is the size measured from the top of its head to the tip of its 
tail when viewed directly from the front (its head turned to the side 
somewhat) and at an angle created by taking the photo at roughly a 60 
- 70 degree angle from below.
I realise that all this is rather too vague to be precise, but the 
two possible contender species have "total lengths" of 5.25 - 6.2 
inches, and 7.0 - 7.5 inches (using data from four references) - can 
anyone comment on this matter in general or this example in 
particular?
Thanks,
Martin

-- 
Martin Reid
San Antonio, Texas
mailto:upupa(AT)airmail.net
http://www.martinreid.com

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Subject: Dement'ev & Gladkov on gulls
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle(AT)BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: 19 Jun 2006 10:13am

Hi all -

I recently had cause to browse through the gull accounts in:

Dement'ev, G.P., and N.A. Gladkov, Eds. 1951. Birds of the Soviet Union. 
Vol. III. Sovetskaya Nauka, Moscow. [Isreal Program for Scientific 
Translations, 1969]

For those interested in the plumages, molts, and taxonomy of gulls (anyone 
out there?) this may be an underutilized resource; I haven't noticed it 
mentioned on this list. They have full accounts for most or all Eurasian 
and some North American taxa, including accurate summaries of molts and 
plumages by age, figures of outer primary and tail patterns in 3-4 age 
groups each for breeding taxa, and full subspecific treatments including 
range maps (e.g., they recognize 12 subspecies of L. argentatus). Most of 
their information was collected in the 1920's-1940's and may represent 
distributions prior to colony expansion that began in the 1950's.

Cheers

Peter Pyle

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Subject: NEW OWL CD
From: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker(AT)ZIPCON.NET>
Date: 19 Jun 2006 10:31am

HI:
 Has anyone heard this CD:

 http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/owl

 If so, what do you think of it?

-- 

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
A.K.A.: "Birdbooker"
"Rallidae all the way!"

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Subject: Odd Loon
From: Mary Beth Stowe <MiriamEagl(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 19 Jun 2006 4:39pm

Hi, all!

I practically ran over a loon at  Salton City on Monday, the 12th of June, 
that I initially thought was a first  year Red-throated due to (what I thought 
looked like) the slender bill with a  sharp gonydeal angle.  Since then I've 
had some very good birders vote for  Common and even Yellow-billed, in addition
to more votes for Red-throated.   I thought I'd throw it out to the group for 
discussion.  The link to the  photos  is:

http://miriameaglemon.com/photogallery/Loons%20to%20Pelicans.htm

What  do you think?  Thanks in advance,

Mary Beth Stowe
San Diego,  CA
MiriamEagl(AT)aol.com
www.miriameaglemon.com  

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Subject: Re: Odd Loon
From: Louis Bevier <lrbevier(AT)COLBY.EDU>
Date: 19 Jun 2006 7:37pm

Mary Beth Stowe's bird is a Common Loon that is just a year old. The  
shear bulk of the bird with its apparently huge bill suggests that  
species. The distinct upturned shape to the lower mandible is typical  
of young Common Loon but also suggests Yellow-billed Loon and along  
with the pale coloration is probably the main source of confusion  
here. The faint but definite pale indentation along the side of the  
neck, most noticeable in the second and third photos from the top of  
the page, narrows the possibilities to Common and Yellow-billed Loon  
and excludes Red-throated. The dark line along the culmen from its  
base to near the tip is typical of Common Loon. Yellow-billed Loon is  
always pale along the culmen on the distal half or more. The dark  
line along the cutting edges of the bill also identify the bird as a  
Common Loon. Yellow-billed is clear yellow or white there. The shape  
of the line along the cutting edges of Common Loon is quite straight,  
as on this bird; by contrast, Yellow-billed has the line along the  
rear of the cutting edges upturned, giving it the appearance of  
smiling. The feathering on the underside of the bill extends out to  
below the nostril on Yellow-billed, but, as can be seen in the  
photographs, falls short of that on Common. Also visible in some  
photographs are the uniformly dark shafts of the primaries, a  
diagnostic character of Common Loon; these shafts are pale with only  
a dark tip on Yellow-billed Loon.

Louis Bevier
Fairfield, ME

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Subject: Re: Odd Loon
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 20 Jun 2006 1:43am

May I take it Mary Beth that this poor bird is still with you? In that case 
I advise to measure it and take it's weight and that'll do the trick! How 
rare is a Red-throated Diver in America anyway?
Norman

Mary Beth Stowe wrote: > I practically ran over a loon at  Salton City on 
Monday, the 12th of June,
> that I initially thought was a first  year Red-throated due to (what I 
> thought
> looked like) the slender bill with a  sharp gonydeal angle.  Since then 
> I've
> had some very good birders vote for  Common and even Yellow-billed, in 
> addition
> to more votes for Red-throated.   I thought I'd throw it out to the group 
> for
> discussion.  The link to the  photos  is:
>
> http://miriameaglemon.com/photogallery/Loons%20to%20Pelicans.htm
>
> What  do you think?  Thanks in advance,
 

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Subject: Glaucous Gull variation
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby(AT)TI.COM>
Date: 20 Jun 2006 8:21am

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

All:

=20

I realize that this is a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string'
question but I wanted to get opinions on Glaucous Gull variation in 1 +
2Y birds. There are a couple of photos in Maling Olson's book (photos
221, 222, 223, & 230 I believe) that show birds with indistinct tail
band and slightly darker secondaries. In California, where we get a lot
of hybrids, I have always regarded such birds as having some
introgression of Herring Gull genes (probably 2nd or 3rd generation
hybrids). I would be interested in others thoughts, especially those who
see juv Glaucous gulls up around Barrow and other spots beyond the
regular range of Herring Gulls.

=20

Nick Lethaby

DSP/BIOS Product Manager

Software Development Systems

Texas Instruments

805 562 5106

nlethaby(AT)ti.com

=20

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Subject: Pectoral sac
From: Frode Falkenberg <frode.falkenberg(AT)SKOLELAB.UIB.NO>
Date: 22 Jun 2006 1:52pm

Hi all!

A little background for the upcoming question: An adult Pectoral Sandpiper was
found today near Bergen in western Norway. It was located in a marsh on the
outer coastline, where species such as Common Snipe, Eurasian Curlew and
Redshank breed commonly. There are no Calidris-species breeding there. It was
actually seen when chasing two Common Snipes.

The bird has developed a big sac in its breast. All info I can find links this
feature to males at their breeding grounds, used to make their characteristic
booming-sounds.

Have a look at the bird and its sac here:
<http://cyberbirding.uib.no/photo/c_melanotos_02.php>

My questions are: Is it known if Pectoral Sandpipers migrate with developed
breast sacs? Could this indicate that the bird is territorial? Do first summer
males develope such sacs?

All the best,
Frode Falkenberg
www.cyberbirding.no 

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Subject: Another Mystery Oriole in eastern PA
From: Dave DeReamus <becard(AT)FAST.NET>
Date: 22 Jun 2006 7:44pm

Hi all,

I am relaying this information for a friend that's without a computer right
now.  First, let me say that this person is a very good birder who has
several nesting pairs of Orchard Orioles and a few Baltimore Orioles in her
yard, so she's very familiar with all of their female and immature plumages.
She swears that there's no way that this bird is either one of those two
species.  Unfortunately, she doesn't have a camera that can take bird
photos, and the bird has only been seen for a few short moments on different
days during this past week.  She was able to study it just long enough to
get the following details:

1) Its size is larger than an Orchard Oriole and slightly larger than a
Baltimore.

2) The top of the head and the face is dark (black?).  It's possible it
could have a full black hood, but it has at least something to that effect.

3) It also has a black bib that comes to a point.

4) The wings are dark with no noticeable wingbars.

5) The upper back is greenish-yellow.

6) Here's an interesting thing: The tail is greenish-yellow with black outer
tail feathers.  She said she's seen this pattern well while it was in
flight.  I haven't found an example of this in any of my books.

7) As far as behavior, each time she saw it, it flew up from the ground and
never went very high up in the trees (not more than 15 feet up).  Near the
spot where she's seen it, she has a mulberry tree that's been dropping
mulberries, which may explain why the bird is on the ground?  She got one of
her best looks at it while it perched on a fence about 4 feet off the
ground.

She would really appreciate if anyone has any ideas of what kind of oriole
this could be.  A few of us have been looking for this bird with cameras
ready but haven't seen it.  Any suggestions?

Please reply to me and I'll pass them on to her.

Thanks and Good Birding,

Dave DeReamus
Compiler of the 'Eastern PA Birdline'
Easton, PA
becard(AT)fast.net
My 'Eastern PA Birding' Website:
http://www.users.fast.net/~becard/index.html

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Subject: Field Identification of Western Flycatcher
         variants
From: Arch McCallum <archmcc(AT)QWEST.NET>
Date: 23 Jun 2006 8:28am

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Hello to all,

My subject line is something of an oxymoron, don't you think? There was an 
excellent discussion of WEFL identification on this list a few years back. 
It is a vexing subject, as is the taxonomic status of the various 
populations of the WEFL complex. Although I have been collecting and 
studying vocal samples in the Pacific Northwest for a couple of years, I 
don't have a solution to either problem. I do, however, want to point out 
an error that has come to my attention as a result of posting some 
preliminary results and observations to various regional lists.

Some birders seem to think that if they hear a two-part male position note 
(mpn) they have a definitive COFL, and if the mpn is continuous the bird is 
PSFL. It's not that simple.

The major problem may be pigeon-holing birds into two categories, the two 
nominal species. It appears to me, from visual inspection of spectrograms 
(I will take measurements some time in the future), that WEFL vocal samples 
are best sorted into three categories: PSFL from the crests of the Cascades 
and Sierras west, COFL from Utah east and south, and intermediate, which is 
everything in between the other two (with the possible exception of 
Wyoming/SD samples, which I haven't seen except in Ned Johnson's monograph).

A second problem is that the mpn isn't definitive. Johnson didn't include 
it in his multivariate analyses with morphometric data, although he did 
later comment on it in various places. Unfortunately, the mpn doesn't seem 
to be well correlated with the song, which should be more nearly 
definitive. Specifically, I have recorded several birds in the intermediate 
area whose mpns seem good for COFL, but whose songs, especially phrase 
(syllable) 2, fall short of the UT/CO/NM standards for these sounds. The 
song should be more definitive, because it is used for mate selection 
(according to both Johnson and Ainsley). There are many mpns in the 
intermediate area that are continuous, but more COFL-like than PSFL-like in 
frequency contour. These are not good PSFL mpns. Moreover, as is often 
noted, some few birds are bilingual for the mpn. As Johnson noted in a 
letter somewhere, this is odd, but I have seen a recording that proves it 
in one instance.

A third problem is confusing the mpn with song phrase 2. As Chris Benesh 
pointed out on this list several years ago, COFL phrase 2 is continuous 
while the mpn is discontinous. The opposite is true of coastal PSFL. Birds 
in the intermediate area have a discontinuous song phrase 2 that appears 
intermediate between the COFL and PSFL standards. Johnson appears to have 
considered this version of phrase 2 to be characteristic of COFL. Indeed, I 
have recorded it in New Mexico.  WEFLs frequently call with song phrase 2 
during the mid-morning hours. Indeed, in my experience, a bird calling 
rapidly (not a commmon behavior) is more likely to use song phrase 2 then 
the mpn. There is also a different sound, a simple rising tone, that is 
strung together quite rapidly during boundary disputes. I believe this was 
mentioned in one of the posts long ago.

In summary, most of the trouble is provided by the birds, but it is 
exacerbated when observers rely on the mpn to the exclusion of the song, 
which contains much more information. I should add as a caveat that there 
is no demonstrated correlation between vocal variation and (directly 
measured) genetic variation in the Western Flycatcher complex. Someone 
needs to do that study.

You can see and hear vocal samples at my website. It has a lot of 
discussion, but the only intermediate samples are from Oregon. I just 
returned from a recording trip to e. Washington, nw. Idaho, and ne. Oregon. 
I will get those samples up in late summer at the earliest. The songs of 
these birds were intermediate, not that different from the central Oregon 
birds. I leave tomorrow on a drive from OR to NM, and will record in Nevada 
and Utah along the way. I'm curious where the first sample of continuous 
song phrase 2 will come from.

The website is

http://www.appliedbioacoustics.com/research/wefl

thanks,

Arch McCallum
Eugene, OR 

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Subject: Re: Pectoral sac
From: Rex Stanford <calidris(AT)MINDSPRING.COM>
Date: 23 Jun 2006 6:58pm

Frode Falkenberg asked, "Is it known if Pectoral Sandpipers migrate with
developed breast sacs?"  I cannot claim scientific expertise with regard to
this species, and never having been on its breeding grounds, I have no idea
of
what proportion leave the breeding grounds with a conspicuous pectoral sac.
I can report that of the very many Pectorals that I have observed
over about 25 years on the northeast coast of the USA only one had a very
highly developed, conspicuous, bulging and dangling pectoral sac.  That
striking individual was observed on July 31, 1990, on a barrier island off
the south shore of Long Island, specifically
at the Cedar Beach Overlook area in Suffolk County, New York.

Rex Stanford
Westbury, Long Island, NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frode Falkenberg" <frode.falkenberg(AT)SKOLELAB.UIB.NO>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 4:51 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Pectoral sac

> Hi all!
>
> A little background for the upcoming question: An adult Pectoral Sandpiper
was
> found today near Bergen in western Norway. It was located in a marsh on
the
> outer coastline, where species such as Common Snipe, Eurasian Curlew and
> Redshank breed commonly. There are no Calidris-species breeding there. It
was
> actually seen when chasing two Common Snipes.
>
> The bird has developed a big sac in its breast. All info I can find links
this
> feature to males at their breeding grounds, used to make their
characteristic
> booming-sounds.
>
> Have a look at the bird and its sac here:
> <http://cyberbirding.uib.no/photo/c_melanotos_02.php>
>
> My questions are: Is it known if Pectoral Sandpipers migrate with
developed
> breast sacs? Could this indicate that the bird is territorial? Do first
summer
> males develope such sacs?
>
> All the best,
> Frode Falkenberg
> www.cyberbirding.no
>
>
> Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>

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Subject: Re: Pectoral sac
From: "Norman D.van Swelm" <Norman.vanswelm(AT)wxs.nl>
Date: 24 Jun 2006 5:00am

Frode Falkenberg wrote: > The bird has developed a big sac in its breast. 
All info I can find links this
> feature to males at their breeding grounds, used to make their 
> characteristic
> booming-sounds.
>
> Have a look at the bird and its sac here:
> <http://cyberbirding.uib.no/photo/c_melanotos_02.php>
>
> My questions are: Is it known if Pectoral Sandpipers migrate with 
> developed
> breast sacs? Could this indicate that the bird is territorial? Do first 
> summer
> males develope such sacs?<

A few years ago I found four Pectorals here in The Netherlands in a group of 
Tundra Ringed Plovers Charadrius h.tundrae during May. They were running 
around highly agitated pushing the plovers aside while the males were 
displaying with puffed up breast sacs frequently. So the question to your 
first question is: yes! As my birds were still on migration, most likely 
heading for Taimyr, the answer to your second question must be: not 
necessarily. I can't answer the third question though your bird seems adult 
to me. Many waders bound to go north were stopped by a long spell of bad 
weather in the second half of May this year. Many are still around and won't 
make it to the tundra this summer. Your Pectoral may be one of them.

Great picture Frode, look for Cox Snipes next year.
Cheers, Norman

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Subject: Re: Pectoral sac (on migration)
From: Jean Iron <jeaniron(AT)SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: 24 Jun 2006 7:48am

We've often seen southbound male Pectoral Sandpipers with obvious "sacs" in 
southern Ontario (Toronto - Lake Ontario) in mid-July. Male Pectorals 
migrate south before the females (females first in most shorebirds) when 
the young hatch. Some July males we've seen show a sagging lower neck bib 
(stretch marks), evidence that they recently were courting males. If you 
watch Pectorals closely this July, you should see some males still showing 
signs of sacs from immensely inflating their throats in courtship.

Ron Pittaway & Jean Iron
Toronto & Minden
Ontario, Canada

At 09:57 PM 6/23/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>Frode Falkenberg asked, "Is it known if Pectoral Sandpipers migrate with
>developed breast sacs?"  I cannot claim scientific expertise with regard to
>this species, and never having been on its breeding grounds, I have no idea
>of
>what proportion leave the breeding grounds with a conspicuous pectoral sac.
>I can report that of the very many Pectorals that I have observed
>over about 25 years on the northeast coast of the USA only one had a very
>highly developed, conspicuous, bulging and dangling pectoral sac.  That
>striking individual was observed on July 31, 1990, on a barrier island off
>the south shore of Long Island, specifically
>at the Cedar Beach Overlook area in Suffolk County, New York.
>
>Rex Stanford
>Westbury, Long Island, NY
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Frode Falkenberg" <frode.falkenberg(AT)SKOLELAB.UIB.NO>
>To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
>Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 4:51 PM
>Subject: [BIRDWG01] Pectoral sac
>
>
> > Hi all!
> >
> > A little background for the upcoming question: An adult Pectoral Sandpiper
>was
> > found today near Bergen in western Norway. It was located in a marsh on
>the
> > outer coastline, where species such as Common Snipe, Eurasian Curlew and
> > Redshank breed commonly. There are no Calidris-species breeding there. It
>was
> > actually seen when chasing two Common Snipes.
> >
> > The bird has developed a big sac in its breast. All info I can find links
>this
> > feature to males at their breeding grounds, used to make their
>characteristic
> > booming-sounds.
> >
> > Have a look at the bird and its sac here:
> > <http://cyberbirding.uib.no/photo/c_melanotos_02.php>
> >
> > My questions are: Is it known if Pectoral Sandpipers migrate with
>developed
> > breast sacs? Could this indicate that the bird is territorial? Do first
>summer
> > males develope such sacs?
> >
> > All the best,
> > Frode Falkenberg
> > www.cyberbirding.no
> >
> >
> > Join or Leave BIRDWG01:
>http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
> >
> > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> >
>
>
>Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>
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