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ID-FRONTIERS for June 25-30, 2006

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Subject: Pectoral Sandpiper age
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle(AT)BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: 27 Jun 2006 9:58am

First-year Pectoral Sandpipers have a complete preformative Molt in Oct-Jan 
which parallels the complete prebasic molt of adults. Both age-groups have 
similar, limited prealternate molts. So there is no way to determine age by 
plumage during the first spring and summer. I believe few of this species 
remain on winter grounds during the first summer, indicating that most 
first-year birds return to breeding grounds, as in other Calidris. 
First-year males may not be too successful, as is generally the case with 
lekking species, but they probably develop sacs and give it a whirl, at least.

Peter Pyle

At 02:00 PM 6/24/06 +0200, Norman D.van Swelm wrote:
>Frode Falkenberg wrote: > The bird has developed a big sac in its breast. 
>All info I can find links this
>>feature to males at their breeding grounds, used to make their characteristic
>>booming-sounds.
>>
>>Have a look at the bird and its sac here:
>><http://cyberbirding.uib.no/photo/c_melanotos_02.php>
>>
>>My questions are: Is it known if Pectoral Sandpipers migrate with developed
>>breast sacs? Could this indicate that the bird is territorial? Do first 
>>summer
>>males develope such sacs?<
>
>A few years ago I found four Pectorals here in The Netherlands in a group 
>of Tundra Ringed Plovers Charadrius h.tundrae during May. They were 
>running around highly agitated pushing the plovers aside while the males 
>were displaying with puffed up breast sacs frequently. So the question to 
>your first question is: yes! As my birds were still on migration, most 
>likely heading for Taimyr, the answer to your second question must be: not 
>necessarily. I can't answer the third question though your bird seems 
>adult to me. Many waders bound to go north were stopped by a long spell of 
>bad weather in the second half of May this year. Many are still around and 
>won't make it to the tundra this summer. Your Pectoral may be one of them.
>
>Great picture Frode, look for Cox Snipes next year.
>Cheers, Norman
>
>
>Join or Leave BIRDWG01: http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
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Subject: Re: Pectoral Sandpiper age
From: Koen Verbanck <verbanckk(AT)SKYNET.BE>
Date: 27 Jun 2006 1:06pm

Without having much experience with this species in spring or summer in the 
field, but I remember something that 2 cy birds by late spring and 
first-summer can be aged on plumage by the worn primaries.
greetings, Verbanck Koen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Pyle" <ppyle(AT)BIRDPOP.ORG>
To: <BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 6:57 PM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Pectoral Sandpiper age

> First-year Pectoral Sandpipers have a complete preformative Molt in 
> Oct-Jan which parallels the complete prebasic molt of adults. Both 
> age-groups have similar, limited prealternate molts. So there is no way to 
> determine age by plumage during the first spring and summer. I believe few 
> of this species remain on winter grounds during the first summer, 
> indicating that most first-year birds return to breeding grounds, as in 
> other Calidris. First-year males may not be too successful, as is 
> generally the case with lekking species, but they probably develop sacs 
> and give it a whirl, at least.
>
> Peter Pyle
>
> At 02:00 PM 6/24/06 +0200, Norman D.van Swelm wrote:
>>Frode Falkenberg wrote: > The bird has developed a big sac in its breast. 
>>All info I can find links this
>>>feature to males at their breeding grounds, used to make their 
>>>characteristic
>>>booming-sounds.
>>>
>>>Have a look at the bird and its sac here:
>>><http://cyberbirding.uib.no/photo/c_melanotos_02.php>
>>>
>>>My questions are: Is it known if Pectoral Sandpipers migrate with 
>>>developed
>>>breast sacs? Could this indicate that the bird is territorial? Do first 
>>>summer
>>>males develope such sacs?<
>>
>>A few years ago I found four Pectorals here in The Netherlands in a group 
>>of Tundra Ringed Plovers Charadrius h.tundrae during May. They were 
>>running around highly agitated pushing the plovers aside while the males 
>>were displaying with puffed up breast sacs frequently. So the question to 
>>your first question is: yes! As my birds were still on migration, most 
>>likely heading for Taimyr, the answer to your second question must be: not 
>>necessarily. I can't answer the third question though your bird seems 
>>adult to me. Many waders bound to go north were stopped by a long spell of 
>>bad weather in the second half of May this year. Many are still around and 
>>won't make it to the tundra this summer. Your Pectoral may be one of them.
>>
>>Great picture Frode, look for Cox Snipes next year.
>>Cheers, Norman
>>
>>
>>Join or Leave BIRDWG01: 
>>http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=birdwg01
>>
>>Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>>
>
>
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>
>
>
> -- 
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> 

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Subject: Mystery Loon Closure
From: Mary Beth Stowe <MiriamEagl(AT)AOL.COM>
Date: 29 Jun 2006 3:29pm

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Hi, all!
 
Made it to the museum yesterday, and am convinced beyond a shadow of a  doubt 
that my Salton City Loon was indeed a Common: the Red-throated and  Pacifics 
were WAY too small, and Louis pointed out a feature that was consistent  as I 
compared Yellow-billed with Common: the YB smiles!  Don't anyone ever  try to 
tell you that collections aren't valuable...
 
Thanks again to everyone who responded; it was a great learning  experience!
 
Take care,
 
MB  

Mary Beth  Stowe
San Diego, CA
MiriamEagl(AT)aol.com
_www.miriameaglemon.com_ (http://www.miriameaglemon.com) 

 

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Subject: Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
         strange one!)
From: Kenny Frisch <kefka12383(AT)YAHOO.COM>
Date: 29 Jun 2006 10:37pm

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Hey, 

Can anyone help them figure out what species this is? Thanks.

-Kenny Frisch

Check out the link from Kurt Fox for photos of a very unusual warbler banded  by
 Dave Junkin in Wyoming County.

Mike Morgante morgm AT adelphia.net  
----- Original Message -----  From: "Kurt and Jeannine Fox" 
 Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 10:06 PM 
Subject: "Junkin's" Warbler   > ---------------------------------- > > June 27,
2006 >

 Today at my MAPS station (Bliss, Wyoming Co, NY), I caught a warbler that  > I
> couldn't identify. It is probably a hybrid. Perhaps someone can shed some >
light on this. Besides the photos, I took some measurements before I > released
the bird unharmed and unbanded. >
> Wing Chord - 67 mm 
> culmen - 8.33 mm 
> Tail - 49 mm 
> Mass - 12.9 gr. > 
> Very exciting, but what is it? > 

Dave Junkin > > >
 Please see photos at: > http://www.home.eznet.net/~kfox/wny/junkin/junkin.htm

 		
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Subject: Re: Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
         strange one!)
From: Gary L Felton <gljeinwv(AT)JUNO.COM>
Date: 30 Jun 2006 3:56am

This message is in MIME format.  Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

How about an aberrantly-plumaged Blue-headed Vireo.  Either that, or a
Yellow-breasted Chat
Mourning Warbler cross.

Gary Felton
Kingwood, WV
 

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:27:08 -0700 Kenny Frisch <kefka12383(AT)YAHOO.COM>
writes:
Hey, 

Can anyone help them figure out what species this is? Thanks.

-Kenny Frisch

Check out the link from Kurt Fox for photos of a very unusual warbler
banded by Dave Junkin in Wyoming County. 

Mike Morgante morgm AT adelphia.net 
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kurt and Jeannine Fox" 
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 10:06 PM 
Subject: "Junkin's" Warbler > ---------------------------------- > > June
27, 2006 >

 Today at my MAPS station (Bliss, Wyoming Co, NY), I caught a warbler
that > I > couldn't identify. It is probably a hybrid. Perhaps someone
can shed some > light on this. Besides the photos, I took some
measurements before I > released the bird unharmed and unbanded. > 
> Wing Chord - 67 mm 
> culmen - 8.33 mm 
> Tail - 49 mm 
> Mass - 12.9 gr. > 
> Very exciting, but what is it? > 

Dave Junkin > > >
 Please see photos at: >
http://www.home.eznet.net/~kfox/wny/junkin/junkin.htm

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Subject: Re: Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
         strange one!)
From: John Saba <sabaj(AT)theriver.com>
Date: 30 Jun 2006 6:00am

Re: the apparent hybrid warbler captured in western NY, with photos at

http://www.home.eznet.net/~kfox/wny/junkin/junkin.htm

A first impression suggests strongly that one parent was a Canada Warbler
(white spectacles, dark crown, black moustachial stripe, etc.) and the other
possibly an Oporornis sp. (primarily due to the large bill). After
consideration of the large bill and eye of Hooded Warbler, we should add that
into the mix.

Features consistent with Canada Warbler: white spectacles, bright yellow
underparts, black breast band, pink legs, dark crown, black moustachial
stripe. Regularly breeds in western NY.

Features consistent with Kentucky Warbler: large bill, bright yellow
underparts, greenish upperparts, pinkish legs, dark crown, black moustachial
stripe, spectacles, dark lores.

Features consistent with Hooded Warbler: large bill, large eye, bright yellow
underparts, greenish upperparts, pink legs, breast band (in some females),
dark lores, dark crown. Regularly breeds in western NY.

Features consistent with Mourning Warbler: large bill, yellow underparts,
greenish upperparts, pink legs, breast band (in females and immatures),
whitish throat (in females and immatures), eye ring (in females, immatures,
and some males), blue-gray head. Regularly breeds in western NY. Has
hybridized with Canada Warbler (Dunn & Garrett, 1997).

Features consistent with Connecticut Warbler: large bill, yellow underparts,
greenish upperparts, pink legs, breast band (in females and immatures),
whitish throat, bold eye ring, blue-gray head.

The evidence gives plausibility to Canada x Mourning. I would consider Canada
x Hooded more likely than Canada x Kentucky. Connecticut seems to me the least
likely candidate of those considered for a parent.

---
John Saba
Tucson, Arizona
Nature Study is a Grand Adventure!

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Subject: Re: Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
         strange one!)
From: Chris Tessaglia-Hymes <cth4(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 30 Jun 2006 6:16am

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

My initial consideration, based upon gestalt of this bird, is a 
Yellow-breasted Chat x Mourning Warbler hybrid. Clearly the bird has 
Oporonis blood and the head features (sans white throat) strongly 
suggest Chat. I'm most interested in knowing where this bird get's 
the white throat from. This white throat is inconsistent with the 
list of plausible parent warblers. Were any feather/blood samples obtained?

Nice bird!

Good birding,

Chris T-H

At 6/30/2006   01:27 AM, you wrote:
>Hey,
>
>Can anyone help them figure out what species this is? Thanks.
>
>-Kenny Frisch
>
>Check out the link from Kurt Fox for photos of a very unusual 
>warbler banded by Dave Junkin in Wyoming County.
>
>Mike Morgante morgm AT adelphia.net
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Kurt and Jeannine Fox"
>Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 10:06 PM
>Subject: "Junkin's" Warbler > ---------------------------------- > > 
>June 27, 2006 >
>
>  Today at my MAPS station (Bliss, Wyoming Co, NY), I caught a 
> warbler that > I > couldn't identify. It is probably a hybrid. 
> Perhaps someone can shed some > light on this. Besides the photos, 
> I took some measurements before I > released the bird unharmed and unbanded.
>
> > Wing Chord - 67 mm
> > culmen - 8.33 mm
> > Tail - 49 mm
> > Mass - 12.9 gr. >
> > Very exciting, but what is it? >
>
>Dave Junkin > > >
>  Please see photos at: > 
>
<http://www.home.eznet.net/%7Ekfox/wny/junkin/junkin.htm>http://www.home.eznet.net/~kfox/wny/junkin/junkin.htm
>
>
>Do you Yahoo!?
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><http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42241/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/handraisers>all-new 
>Yahoo! Mail Beta.
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=============================================
Christopher T. Tessaglia-Hymes, Research Assistant
Bioacoustics Research Program, Cornell Lab of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road, Ithaca, New York 14850
Voice: 607-254-2418, FAX: 607-254-2460
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/brp mailto:cth4(AT)cornell.edu
============================================= 

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Subject: Re: Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
         strange one!)
From: Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 30 Jun 2006 7:51am

A very cool bird.  Mourning Warbler seems obvious for one parent.  I'm 
guessing Canada Warbler for the other.  This is very similar to the 
Mourning Warbler X Common Yellowthroat hybrid described by Bledsoe in 1988 
in Wilson Bulletin.  I saw one of those in my yard in upstate New York a 
couple of years ago, and it had the white throat and black trailing down 
the face shown in this bird, but had no hint of an eyering or the loral 
spot.  Those could come from a Canada Warbler.

Kevin

At 01:27 AM 6/30/2006, Kenny Frisch wrote:
>Hey,
>
>Can anyone help them figure out what species this is? Thanks.
>
>-Kenny Frisch
>
>Check out the link from Kurt Fox for photos of a very unusual warbler 
>banded by Dave Junkin in Wyoming County.
>
>Mike Morgante morgm AT adelphia.net
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Kurt and Jeannine Fox"
>Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 10:06 PM
>Subject: "Junkin's" Warbler > ---------------------------------- > > June 
>27, 2006 >
>
>  Today at my MAPS station (Bliss, Wyoming Co, NY), I caught a warbler 
> that > I > couldn't identify. It is probably a hybrid. Perhaps someone 
> can shed some > light on this. Besides the photos, I took some 
> measurements before I > released the bird unharmed and unbanded. >
> > Wing Chord - 67 mm
> > culmen - 8.33 mm
> > Tail - 49 mm
> > Mass - 12.9 gr. >
> > Very exciting, but what is it? >
>
>Dave Junkin > > >
>  Please see photos at: > 
>
<http://www.home.eznet.net/%7Ekfox/wny/junkin/junkin.htm>http://www.home.eznet.net/~kfox/wny/junkin/junkin.htm
>
>
>Do you Yahoo!?
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><http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42241/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/handraisers>all-new 
>Yahoo! Mail Beta.
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*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan
Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/

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Subject: Re: Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
         strange one!)
From: Chris Elphick <elphick(AT)SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Date: 30 Jun 2006 8:20am

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

I did a double-take on the white throat myself, but I'm not certain that this
feature is as inconsistent as it seems.

I admit to remembering little about the genetics of feather coloration (and
would guess that much is just unknown), but suppose one parent had a genetic
make-up that resulted in no melanin deposition in those feathers (say, a chat or
 perhaps a Canada warbler), while the other had a genetic disposition that
resulted in no carotenoid deposition (say, maybe a mourning warbler).  This
pairing could produce a bird that had lacked both black and yellow - i.e., to
produce white.  I think it is easy to forget that the absense of a color can be
as meaningful as it's presence, and that in hybrids this can sometimes produce
unexpected appearances.

(Hopefully Jocelyn Hudon or someone else who really understands the basis for
feather colour can correct any mistakes in my reasoning.)

Chris

Chris Tessaglia-Hymes <cth4(AT)CORNELL.EDU> wrote:   My initial consideration,
based upon gestalt of this bird, is a Yellow-breasted Chat x Mourning Warbler
hybrid. Clearly the bird has Oporonis blood and the head features (sans white
throat) strongly suggest Chat. I'm most interested in knowing where this bird
get's the white throat from. This white throat is inconsistent with the list of
plausible parent warblers. Were any feather/blood samples obtained?

 Nice bird!

 Good birding,

 Chris T-H

Chris Elphick
Storrs, CT
elphick(AT)sbcglobal.net

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Subject: Re: Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
         strange one!)
From: Laurent Raty <l.raty(AT)SKYNET.BE>
Date: 30 Jun 2006 9:41am

Incidentally, the Mourning W. x Yellowthroat hybrid described by Bledsoe
(see http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Wilson/v100n01/p0001-p0008.pdf ) also had
a largely white throat.

Just curious, about the Chat : are there any known instances of this species
hybridising with a wood-warbler? Or indeed with anything else?
(I know of none. Genetic data show that Icteria is pretty distant from
typical wood-warblers; actually, some results are even suggesting that this
species is more likely an Icterid than a Parulid, which arguably would make
hybridisation with a wood-warbler quite surprising.)

Cheers,
Laurent -

Laurent Raty
Brussels, Belgium

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Chris Elphick
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a strange
one!)

I did a double-take on the white throat myself, but I'm not certain that
this feature is as inconsistent as it seems.

I admit to remembering little about the genetics of feather coloration (and
would guess that much is just unknown), but suppose one parent had a genetic
make-up that resulted in no melanin deposition in those feathers (say, a
chat or perhaps a Canada warbler), while the other had a genetic disposition
that resulted in no carotenoid deposition (say, maybe a mourning warbler).
This pairing could produce a bird that had lacked both black and yellow -
i.e., to produce white.  I think it is easy to forget that the absense of a
color can be as meaningful as it's presence, and that in hybrids this can
sometimes produce unexpected appearances.

(Hopefully Jocelyn Hudon or someone else who really understands the basis
for feather colour can correct any mistakes in my reasoning.)

Chris

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Subject: Re: Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
         strange one!)
From: Geoff Malosh <pomarine(AT)EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: 30 Jun 2006 10:20am

Wow, this is a really weird bird.  Chris Elphick's explanation for the
white throat is intriguing - I'd also be interested in hearing from
someone familiar with the genetics on this.

So ignoring that (for now) and turning to the question of parentage, I
agree with those who have suggested Canada as the source of the
spectacles.  The head pattern is indeed strikingly suggestive of
yellow-breasted chat but this seems the most unlikely of all possible
parents due to the disparity in size alone between chats and the other
warblers, in addition to the fact that chat is genetically quite
different from the Oporornis warblers, which we all seem to agree are
represented by at least one parent.

The measurements taken of Junkin's bird, especially the mass, fall well
within the safe range for Canada and another warbler, but is only about
1/2 the mass of a chat.  If chat were one of the parents I would expect
this bird to be heavier and to also show more characteristics consistent
with chat (maybe darker legs, lighter yellow or white undertail coverts,
etc. etc.).  The bill does seem to be oversized (suggesting chat) but
perhaps not too much so for Mourning Warbler.  Other features (excepting
the throat) seem to be a good approximation of what a Mourning x Canada
might look like (as others have stated):

-- Greenish upperparts, dark head 
-- Pink legs, pink lower mandible 
-- Bright yellow underparts (except throat) 
-- Dark breastband 
-- Immature Mourning warblers can also show a whitish throat, but I have
never seen one as bright white as this one 

So that's my guess - Mourning x Canada with an unusual bright white
throat.

Geoff Malosh 
Pittsburgh, PA 

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Elphick
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 11:20 AM
To: BIRDWG01(AT)LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
strange one!)

I did a double-take on the white throat myself, but I'm not certain that
this feature is as inconsistent as it seems.  

I admit to remembering little about the genetics of feather coloration
(and would guess that much is just unknown), but suppose one parent had
a genetic make-up that resulted in no melanin deposition in those
feathers (say, a chat or perhaps a Canada warbler), while the other had
a genetic disposition that resulted in no carotenoid deposition (say,
maybe a mourning warbler).  This pairing could produce a bird that had
lacked both black and yellow - i.e., to produce white.  I think it is
easy to forget that the absense of a color can be as meaningful as it's
presence, and that in hybrids this can sometimes produce unexpected
appearances.

(Hopefully Jocelyn Hudon or someone else who really understands the
basis for feather colour can correct any mistakes in my reasoning.)

Chris

Chris Elphick
Storrs, CT
elphick(AT)sbcglobal.net 
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Subject: Re: Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
         strange one!)
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle(AT)BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: 30 Jun 2006 11:26am

Hi all - I forwarded some of the messages and link to Dave DeSante, founder 
of the MAPS program. Dave requested I forward his take:

Hi Peter,

Thanks for sending me David's photo. I can't get into Canada Warbler 
because the throat is too white, the supraloral stripe is white, and the 
bill is heavier than either an Oporornis or Wilsonia. I know it sounds 
completely crazy, but I believe the bird may be a Blue-headed Vireo x 
Mourning Warbler. It would be nice if it had some trace of wingbars, but it 
doesn't.

It seems that everything about the bird from the neck down is a Mourning 
Warbler including tail, undertail coverts, legs, wings, back and belly. 
Even the blue-gray head and blackish breast seems like Mourning. What needs 
to be explained is the striking incomplete white eye-ring and supraloral 
and sharply contrasting white throat, both of which are characteristic of 
Blue-headed Vireo. Warblers with strong eye-ring/supraloral combinations 
include Canada (yellow supraloral) and chat, both of which have bright 
yellow throats. While female Mourning can sometimes have whitish throats, 
and dull eye-rings and supraloral stripes, they are not striking and 
contrastingly white. However, if Blue-headed Vireo x Mourning Warbler is 
too outrageous, then my second guess would be simply a very aberrant 
Mourning Warbler.

Finally, Myrtle Warbler also has a sharply contrasting white throat and 
white eyelids and a short white supraloral, but the face generally gives an 
eye-striped, rather than eye-ringed appearance, so I believe it cannot be a 
Myrtle x Mourning warbler.

Whatever it is, it is a neat bird. Hooray for MAPS.

Dave DeSante

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Subject: Re: Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
         strange one!)
From: Angus Wilson <gadflypetrel(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 30 Jun 2006 11:53am

Hi All,

I too wondered about Blue-headed Vireo (Vireo solitarius) rather than Canada 
Warbler (Wilsonia canadensis) as a possible parent. I have not kept up with 
vireo taxonomy but have it in my head that vireos are really not that 
closely related to New World warblers, so a viable (but presumably sterile) 
hybrid would be all the more remarkable. The lack of a hooked tip to the 
upper mandible was one negative to the idea but who knows how these 
anatomical features behave under conditions of mixed parentage.

When banders are lucky enough capture odd or puzzling birds of this nature, 
it seems like a good idea to collect DNA as well as photographs for future 
analysis. Collecting blood may be out of the question without a suitable 
permit but I wonder if the feathers that come loose during the handling 
would be sufficient if carefully collected and stored in freezer? Obviously 
great care would be needed to ensure the feather came from the bird in 
question, not previous occupants of the banders bag for example, and to 
minimize cross-contamination from finger tips etc. Cells at the base of the 
feather quill could be used for DNA analysis. Does anyone know how many 
feather tips are need to supply enough DNA for accurate determination?

As others have said, a fascinating and very beautiful bird!

Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
http://www.oceanwanderers.com

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Subject: Re: Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
         strange one!)
From: Kevin McGowan <kjm2(AT)CORNELL.EDU>
Date: 30 Jun 2006 12:06pm

Irby Lovette here at Cornell Lab of O is drooling to get a feather of this 
bird.  His lab has been very successful getting DNA from feathers (and very 
few feathers).  Irby just finished the phylogeny for all of the warblers in 
Parulidae (yes, every single one, including Bachman's), and he says if he 
gets a feather he can tell both parents definitively.  I can hardly wait!

Kevin

At 02:52 PM 6/30/2006, Angus Wilson wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I too wondered about Blue-headed Vireo (Vireo solitarius) rather than 
>Canada Warbler (Wilsonia canadensis) as a possible parent. I have not kept 
>up with vireo taxonomy but have it in my head that vireos are really not 
>that closely related to New World warblers, so a viable (but presumably 
>sterile) hybrid would be all the more remarkable. The lack of a hooked tip 
>to the upper mandible was one negative to the idea but who knows how these 
>anatomical features behave under conditions of mixed parentage.
>
>When banders are lucky enough capture odd or puzzling birds of this 
>nature, it seems like a good idea to collect DNA as well as photographs 
>for future analysis. Collecting blood may be out of the question without a 
>suitable permit but I wonder if the feathers that come loose during the 
>handling would be sufficient if carefully collected and stored in freezer? 
>Obviously great care would be needed to ensure the feather came from the 
>bird in question, not previous occupants of the banders bag for example, 
>and to minimize cross-contamination from finger tips etc. Cells at the 
>base of the feather quill could be used for DNA analysis. Does anyone know 
>how many feather tips are need to supply enough DNA for accurate
determination?
>
>As others have said, a fascinating and very beautiful bird!
>
>Cheers, Angus Wilson
>New York City
>http://www.oceanwanderers.com
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
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*****************************************************
Kevin J. McGowan
Co-editor, New York State Breeding Bird Atlas
Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
607/254-2432
fax 607/254-2111
kjm2(AT)cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/crows/

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Subject: Re: Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
         strange one!)
From: Laurent Raty <l.raty(AT)SKYNET.BE>
Date: 30 Jun 2006 1:34pm

> I have not kept up with
> vireo taxonomy but have it in my head that vireos are really not that
> closely related to New World warblers, so a viable (but presumably
> sterile) hybrid would be all the more remarkable.

If you forget about a few strongly divergent, exotic branches
(Orthonychidae, Pomatostomidae, Meliphagoidea, Ptilonorhynchidae,
Climacteridae, Menuridae), a wood-warbler and a vireo are as far away
from each other as is possible for two oscine passerines (the former is
a Passerida, the latter is part of the core Corvoidea).
...Very unlikely IMO (and really remarkable if it indeed did happen).

Cheers, Laurent -

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Subject: Re: Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
         strange one!)
From: Chris Elphick <elphick(AT)SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Date: 30 Jun 2006 1:48pm

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I agree completely with Angus and Kevin that collecting feathers would be great,
 and should be able to put the parentage question to rest. But, banders should
be aware that permits are also needed to collect feathers from the birds they
band.  See below (from the banding lab web site).

A couple of years ago a group of people (including Irby Lovette) wrote a paper
in the Auk calling for more widespread sampling of feathers from banded birds to
 address a wide range of questions. Interested banders should perhaps talk to
folks at the banding lab.

The reference is:

Smith, T.B., Marra, P.P., Webster, M.S., Lovette, I., Gibbs, L. & Holmes, R.T.
2003. A call for feather sampling. The Auk 120, 218-221.

Available here:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3793/is_200301/ai_n9225660

Feather Sampling   To request permission to take feather samples, please provide
 the BBL the following information.
 
   Master Permit Name and Number, and any Subpermits that require this
permission
   Species
   What feathers will be taken, and how many 
   Project Proposal (Why are the feathers needed?  How will they be     used?)

 This information can be sent to FSoehnlein(AT)usgs.gov. 

Angus Wilson <gadflypetrel(AT)HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:When banders are lucky enough
capture odd or puzzling birds of this nature,
it seems like a good idea to collect DNA as well as photographs for future 
analysis. Collecting blood may be out of the question without a suitable 
permit but I wonder if the feathers that come loose during the handling 
would be sufficient if carefully collected and stored in freezer? 

Chris Elphick
Storrs, CT
elphick(AT)sbcglobal.net

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Subject: Re: Fw: "Junkin's" Warbler - apparent hybrid (a
         strange one!)
From: Angus Wilson <gadflypetrel(AT)HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 30 Jun 2006 2:21pm

Thanks to Chris Elphick for that interesting article! I did not want to get 
into a 'should you pull feathers' debate but certainly if a feather or two 
came loose it would make sense to try to extract as much info as possible, 
especially for an important bird. In my view, too many of the suspected 
hybrids we discuss go without final positive ID and are too rare for anyone 
to actively look for with collecting/sampling in mind.

I hope this is a topic the bird banding lab (or equivalents in other 
countries) reviews on a regular basis in tune with fast changing 
technologies. The databases of reference sequences that Kevin McGowan 
mentioned are one example of a brilliant tool that can be brought to bear on 
mystery birds and suspected hybrids. Dick Newell has a great story about a 
chap who collected fresh poop from a controversial curlew in the UK, a 
wonderful reminder that feathers are not the only non-invasive source of 
genetic sampling we can consider.

Perhaps the popular birding magazines could cover these issues, providing 
the birding public with advice on how to collect and store biological 
materials and who to contact with regard to analysis.

Cheers, Angus Wilson
New York City
http://www.oceanwanderers.com

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Subject: Lesser Nighthawk invasion?
From: David Allinson <passerine(AT)SHAW.CA>
Date: 30 Jun 2006 9:52pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----INCLUDING text/plain MIME SECTION----

Some of you may recall that I recently forwarded a link to photos taken by
Mike Yip of British Columbia's first Lesser Nighthawk. That bird was
photographed 50 miles off Vancouver Island on June 5th. Furthermore, I see
that other Lesser Nighthawk reports continue in Pacific states
lately...well, hot on the heels of BC's first (and only Canada's second), we
appear to have our second record in a month.
Today (June 30) at Iona Island Regional Park in Richmond (Vancouver),
British Columbia, Ilya Povalyaev found a freshly dead nighthawk and I am
hosting photos taken by Peter Candido on my photo website:
http://getalifer.smugmug.com/photos/sspopup.mg?AlbumID=1618783
or if you do not like slide show format:
http://getalifer.smugmug.com/gallery/1618783/1/78802272
 
Any comments appreciated.
 
Regards,
David Allinson
Victoria, BC
 
 

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